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- [00:02]
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- [00:30]
Marc Maron / Progressive Insurance Advertiser
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- [01:07]
Podcast Host Matt Davis Adams
The next evolution in Football Storytelling Football Manager is back in our lives for the first time, Football Manager 26 refreshes the managerial experience and sets the stage for you to define your football destiny. Now, chances are that as a listener to this podcast, you've spent hundreds or even thousands of hours on previous iterations of this game. Tommy Svendel laughs and Czerno Samba and are much better in the game than in real life. Toribo west, we salute you. Well, FM26 is going to give you the richest matchday experience ever. With enhanced player movement and greater on pitch detail bringing new levels of depth and drama to every match. For the first time, you can compete at the pinnacle of English football as the Premier League debuts. With fully licensed club badges, kits and official player photos and with a completely overhauled UI by the genius developers at Sports Interactive, every aspect from training to tactics to transfers belongs to you and your vision. Football Manager 26 is out now across platforms. Step into the dugout and change the game.
- [02:08]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
The Athletic FC We're 11 games into the 202526 Premier League season. Arsenal are top man, City are clinging to their coattails. Sunderland. Sunderland are in the Champions League places and just four points separate second from ninth. Meanwhile Newcastle are languishing in 14th. Fulham's top scorer his own goals. West Ham and Forest are in the relegation zone and Wolves are rock bottom still waiting for their first win. So is this the most unpredictable the Premier League has been in recent years? Joining me to discuss all that and more, we have the man whose weekly briefings make Mondays matter. Hello Tim Spears. Hey Mats and and also an award nominated MFer is Megan Feringer. Welcome Back and congrats on the nod. Megan up for writer of the year at the FSAs.
- [03:01]
Megan Feringer (Football Writer)
Oh, thank you. That was such a nice intro. Yeah, that was a big surprise. I'm glad to be back on the pod.
- [03:08]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Get voting the Athletic nominated in a couple of categories as well. All right, let's start with arguably the biggest surprise of the season so far. They are Sunderland, their fourth 19 points and after 11 games played, Tim coming up via the playoffs is supposed to be massively disadvantageous. Add to that what's basically an entirely new squad, a manager who's getting his first taste of Barclays as well as having his name constantly mispronounced. This simply should not be happening. So how is it?
- [03:35]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Oh, well, as a commentator, Matt, how should we be pronouncing it just before I say his name, you know, Regis.
- [03:39]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Lebris, I think, I think everybody wants to go with Labrie because then you can make cheese puns, but it's simply not how you chose me.
- [03:47]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Right, Regis Lebres? Yeah, I mean, as you say, the table's still a bit wild. I think it's very unpredictable and it's a bit congested. If Sunderland had won one fewer match, they'd be 11th and we wouldn't be starting the show with them right now. So I think it's important just to add that bit of context. However, there have been the story of the season so far for me. I think that Arsenal performance and result just sort of added like a real layer of substance to what they've been doing because no other team has managed to do what they did in terms of troubling Arsenal and obviously also scoring twice and ended that crazy run of clean sheets. So yeah, I think unless you're from like Newcastle or Middlesbrough, then it's hard to not like Sunderland and like want them to succeed. They're one of those like massive, huge underachieving clubs who like incredible fans and long suffering fans. And I really hope they're making a Netflix documentary this season because anyone who watched the last one knows that, my God, they've been through it. But they're a massive club in a world where like Brentford and Bournemouth are successful Premier League teams. So just being a big club means nothing. You know, Sheffield Wednesday will tell you that. And spending money has far less meaning because everybody does it. Ipswich will tell you that Ipswich spent a similar amount of Sunderland last season and were relegated pretty comfortably. So. So being a big club, great, having lots of money, great. But being smart is far more important and Sunderland have been very, very smart. In their recruitment, which, if you're asking me, you know, what's the sort of secret behind it, I would say recruitment has been the main reason. They've basically bought a whole new team. They've got this ideal blend of youth and experience and the midfield being a case in point where they've brought in Granit Xhaka, who's been exceptional, arguably the signing of the summer for any club. Noah Siddiqui looks a hell of a player. And Diarra, who was doing brilliantly until his injury. So to get everyone working and blending and contributing, it's no accident. And they also play exactly how I'd want my team to play or any football fan would want their team to play. They're so aggressive and committed all the way to the 95th minute in every single thing they do. They're a big success story. So I'm looking really forward to seeing sort of what's next and where they can take this.
- [05:59]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
But Megan, I guess Tim's right to urge caution, given where we are in the season. There's only only one time a promoted teams had more points at this stage. That was Hull 2008, 2009. They won six of their first 10, only won two more. They finished 17th, avoided relegation by a point. Their manager, though, did wear a headset. Maybe that's the difference. How are Sunderland going to sustain this push for European football? Because, I mean, I speak as a Forest fan, there comes a point, doesn't there, where teams sort of work out how to play against you? I guess that's what they got a guard against.
- [06:32]
Megan Feringer (Football Writer)
Yeah, I guess in that sense history isn't a place of solace, is it? But I think Tim made a really good point. It's the fact that they're intense and tenacious until the 95th minute. And ironically, it was a 95th minute winner that got them up into the Premier League in the first place. And I think it's five times now they've scored a goal and 90 minutes or later, three of those being goals that have then changed the result in their favor. So, I mean, there's a resilience there too that is kind of underpinning a lot of this. And I know we talk about, if you look at xgs and things like that, the more tangible numbers, it's. It's not great. But it's also a team that is willingly conceding possession. So naturally, like the XG against you is going to be kind of worse. But I think like, defensively that's the foundation and they've I think it's second in the Premier League for number of goals not conceded. That was a weird way of phrasing it. Basically they've conceded the second least number of goals and that's behind Arsenal. And I think if you're going to stay in this league but then do as well as you do, it's on defensive foundations and they've got that. So I think it's maintaining that defense. So even when you do get found out, like what happened with Forest last season, you still have that solidity. I think Libris has done really well in terms of being tactically flexible, not being tied to sort of one dogma or playing style, which is what's happened with numbers of teams who've come up recently. Bring on the chaos. This is exciting and I hope they continue to do it.
- [07:49]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Also, isn't, isn't it interesting, Megan, you mentioned the, the. The playoff winner 95th minute. That I think Sunderland and Sheffield United are now like something like 40 places apart in the league pyramid with Sheffield United in the championship relegation zone. But it tells you, you, you know, football is just so incredibly unpredictable. Yeah.
- [08:05]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
The latest of late winners in the. In the playoff semi and the playoff final above Sunderland, a place and a point above them specifically are Chelsea. Tim, would you expect them to be around this point at this stage? And why doesn't Enzo Maresca get much credit from media and from most Chelsea supporters?
- [08:26]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
I think the one thing I'd say about Chelsea being third in the table is that in their last, I think four league matches, they've had like three incredibly kind league fixtures and that's not their fault and they've won those games. But you have to point out that they had Forest for Postecoglou's last match when they were in utter shambles. They've had spurs away recently, which is the easiest away fixture in the league right now. And they've had Wolves at home, which is the easiest fixture in football right now. And I do mean the whole of football across every country. So yeah, the other Chelsea game in that sequence was Sunderland at home where they came undone against the low block and which has been an issue of theirs and lost 2:1. So it is hard to judge, you know, Chelsea a third. Are things going well when the table is so sort of congested on performances, which is I guess a better barometer at the moment? I would say Chelsea are like functional and very good in midfield. Obviously. Caicedo has been one of the players of the, of the season for any team. Fernandez has been Good, but definitely improvements to make at both ends of the pitch. I feel like Maresca is still trying to figure out his best. 11. Certainly an attack. Obviously they've had defensive injuries, but certainly an attack. And yeah, the booze at half time against Wolves last week would suggest that many people aren't convinced yet. And I think with having such a young team, which is a very deliberate strategy, you are going to get these inconsistencies, which we do see mostly in attack with players like Joe, Pedro Garnacho, Pedro Neto, although he's a bit older. You know, these guys would be an excellent one week and then anonymous the next. So I think with Chelsea you can see that they've obviously got potential when they win in the club World cup, but when they're nil, nil at home to Wolves at half time and the crowd are booing them off, that's the opposite end of the spectrum. And that's just what we're going to get with Chelsea for a little bit longer, I think, while they still grow together.
- [10:09]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Fascinating fixtures for them coming up. Burnley away early kickoff post break. Then back to back home games against Barcelona and Arsenal before Leeds and Bournemouth away. So Arsenal dropped their first points in 10 games held to a draw at the Stadium of Light. As we've mentioned, they remain top, but Manchester City are nipping at their heels. Megan, they've already lost three times, which is as many as they did the last time they won the title. But they're the most likely challengers. Right, And I wonder if the fact that actually their football is far easier on the either Arsenals this season might mean that they would win over some neutrals, which is not something that they've been known for in recent years.
- [10:45]
Megan Feringer (Football Writer)
Yeah, that and when you've got a goal scorer scoring 14 goals in 11 appearances, he's like a Norwegian meat cleaver. Like, he's just. He's just awesome. And people are going to say City are probably a little more like reliant on him than they probably should because he's got 14 league goals and the next top scorer in Man City, he's got one. And there's seven players who've got one goal, which doesn't feel incredibly sustainable. But then I was reading Michael Cox's piece and he was kind of describing how like, Guardiola's almost designed it that way. Like, basically he said, I've got this cheat code, I should probably start using this cheat code in the way that it should be using. And he's doing it and it's working so they're not so religiously positional. Like you've got players who are kind of occupying the same spaces, which isn't what you really expect with a Guardiola side. Daku's been fun. My partner's Welsh. We saw him terrorize the Welsh team not that long ago for Belgium and now he's doing it in the Premier League. So, yeah, I think there's a possibility. It's way more fun to be the person doing the chasing than being the one who's being chased. But still, I think they're going to be really reliant on Arsenal dropping points, which at the moment, Arsenal, you know, the fact that we're talking about a draw still is being that. I don't know, they still feel like a little too robust, but who knows?
- [11:53]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
84 points. Tim was enough to get the title one for, for Liverpool last season. Do you think it's going to be something similar this time around? It's not looking like it's going to be high to mid-90s.
- [12:03]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
No, I think, yeah, those. Those days have gone for now. I think when you've got like Bournemouth and Brighton and Sunderland now and then like Villa palace all sort of challenging and pushing the established clubs, there's definitely been a leveling out which I think is fantastic for the league. You know, that big six era is gone definitely in terms of teams, maybe not in terms of clubs and size and revenue, but definitely in terms of teams. And basically, yeah, fewer points to win the league and more needed to stay up, I think. Yeah, when you look at like, you know, the Champions league table has 6 English clubs in the top 12. An all English final in the Europa League last year from teams near the bottom of the Premier League. It's basically a super league now and yeah, that definitely equals fewer points.
- [12:47]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
All right, we shall see. In terms of the top two on the return, City going to Newcastle in the late kickoff on Saturday in Arsenal hosting spurs before they go to Chelsea and then host Brentford. Hope you like London derbies, Mikel.
- [13:03]
Podcast Host Matt Davis Adams
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- [14:20]
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- [15:28]
Podcast Host Matt Davis Adams
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [15:33]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
So fifth to ninth reads Spurs, Aston Villa, Manchester United, Liverpool and Bournemouth. They've all got 18 points so far. Megan Liverpool, the shocker of the season really so far, lost five of their last six after that comprehensive defeat at the Etihad. Before the pause. 8th is the lowest they've ever finished in the Premier League. Any chance of a repeat of that this time around? Because there's surely no chance of them winning the title.
- [16:00]
Megan Feringer (Football Writer)
Oh, I feel like if I commit myself to this it's going to get like clipped up and beamed onto the library building. But judging from what my Liverpool friends say, everything's doomed. Var hates them. The season should just be over. Everything's Miserable Virgil van Dijk is hated again by Var. All these kinds of things. But no, it's. You can bleep that bit out. It just isn't great. And again, history isn't a place of solace, right? No team's ever had 18 points after 11 games and gone on to win the title. It doesn't look very good for Liverpool. And we were saying this at the very start of the season that there were issues underneath all of it. They kept relying on late goals to try to kind of paper over the cracks. It didn't work. And now all of those issues have come to the fore.
- [16:43]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
And as we've mentioned, Tim, I guess part of it is because other teams are overperforming but it's more about their underlying issues. Right. The transfer window that we thought they'd won, turns out maybe they hadn't. And maybe some contracts awarded to players who they might have been better off shipping out.
- [17:01]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Okay, well that one's getting plastered up in Liverpool. You're joining Megan there on the billboards. I mean Honor Slot will claim that it's the teams that they're playing. And he's been saying this for ages now. I find it fascinating the road that he's going down in terms of his comments basically moaning about teams changing their tactics and changing their personnel when they play Liverpool. He literally said after they won two games against Villa and Real Madrid, he said that he appreciated them playing as he thought they'd play basically. It's kind of bizarre comments and his excuses must be wearing thin even for sort of Liverpool fans. I mean they've lost a few games in the last couple of months but the City defeat at the weekend was the most concerning for me. They were sort of second best everywhere and to be sort of comprehensively outplayed in pretty much every area of the pitch is bad enough. But the real lack of fight and competitiveness in that second half, you know, the game was done at 2 nil. I didn't watch that game and think at any point Liverpool are going to get back into this and for the champions to be like that. Yeah, it's pretty concerning. It makes you question if Slot still has like the players under his influence. I think yeah. And the fact they've lost so many matches in quick succession means yes, I think the title is over for them mathematically. Of course they're well in it still. But it reminds me of Man City last season where you just don't look at them and think that this is a championship winning team. This kind of Idea that they've bought too many players and it's. And it's too problematic to fit them all together. I mean, teams like Sunderland just make a mockery of that when they buy a whole new team. But I think they have tried to change the dynamic of the side too much, particularly with Florian Verts. I know there's a lot of attention on him and his numbers, but I think it's more that they've had to change their modes of attack to fit him in, and it's just not quite working so far. And then you've got individual issues in defense with Kanate and the keeper lately, and Van Dijk as well, so. And Kirkez. It's all just a bit of a mess, really. I think they'll finish in the top five or six, but I don't see them challenging for the title at all, to be honest.
- [18:55]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
And I don't think many of us would have had spurs and Manchester United both ahead of them at this stage. Both look set to improve on their 17th and 14th finish places last term. Well done, lads. Amazing. Villa, meanwhile, have recovered from a dreadful start. Saw them fail to score in their opening four games. Bournemouth remain in the mix for Europe. Out of those teams, Megan, who's surprised you the most? For better or worse, I'm gonna take.
- [19:21]
Megan Feringer (Football Writer)
Man United on this one. The thing that surprised me most about Man United is that they continue to surprise me and I shouldn't be surprised by anything that happens to them. But like, genuinely beating Liverpool surprised me, but then losing to Brentford didn't surprise me. And I guess the scale of what surprises me now with them is what surprises me. It's all very meta, isn't it? But also, like, United are technically improving. I think that's. That's worth saying very slowly. And I know like my. My brother, my dad will say things like, well, we should be improving, this is expected, blah, blah, blah. But realistically, like, this is a club that has not been good for a number of years and probably deserves to be where they're at. And now they're slowly starting to, like, kind of get their act together. But when you look at the underlying numbers, like, the XG is improving, it's much better than it was last season. But you still have players like Casemiro Maguire that you're relying on. Like the fact that Maguire comes on and there's this sort of Frisian of hope that goes through, that he might get a late winner. That's probably not something that you would have thought of a Man United team Five or ten years ago.
- [20:24]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Tim. Let's see how many times we can use the word surprise in this section. Bournemouth, should we be surprised about how well they're doing? I mean, I know it was a surprise that they lost so many of their players over the summer, but they don't have European football and they've got one of what, the top five managers in the league. So is it that surprising that they are. I mean, they're ninth, but they're only a point off the top four.
- [20:47]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Not a surprise in terms of their approach and being able to surprise teams and the way that they've scored goals pretty consistently. And Semenya, I think is someone most people identified as someone who could go on this kind of run in terms of end products. But I think, I mean, look, they just lost 4 nil to Aston Villa, so maybe I should hesitate to say this, but the defense has surprised me in terms of how good it's been because they lost so many players last year, they basically lost the whole back five. But Truffair has come in and done really well at left back replacing Kirkes. Petrovic has done well in goal replacing Kepa. Overall, not a surprise for me. They're sort of top half and looking up, I think. A word on. On Villa, the team they lost to last week. They've been, apart from Man United, the biggest surprise in terms of how they've turned their season around already. I know we're only in November, but they looked in real trouble in sort of August and September. I think they were winless in their first five and it's completely done a 180 in terms of results. And after a sort of a dreadful summer of recruitment where they didn't buy anyone that improved their first 11 and barely bought anyone that improved their squad. When you look at Harvey Elliott not being involved and Jadon Sancho not really contributing, Emery's turned it around extremely quickly and obtained this sort of level of consistency. And I just will say Man United, yeah. When they lost to Grimsby in Brentford, I think none of us foresaw that Reuben Amarin would make it to a year in charge, which he has done. I think one of the keys to their turnaround has probably been the keeper. I think Lammens is the one. He's played in every game of their unbeaten run. So he's not lost a game yet. He just looks like a normal goalkeeper to me, like nothing risky, nothing fancy, just makes decent saves. It shows you how far they've fallen that a five game unbeaten run has Us all sort of waxing lyrical over them, but not quite enough for that chap to get his hair cut off just yet. But I think they've got a decent run of five or six fixtures coming up. So maybe the. Maybe the guy's going to get another chance before Christmas.
- [22:37]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
He doesn't want that to happen. That's the end of his gimmick if it happens. That's why he chose five games. Manchester United, by the way, might be the team that won the transfer window. In retrospect, who'd have thought it? All right, we'll take another pause when we come back. We'll get stuck into the middle of the table.
- [22:51]
Podcast Host Matt Davis Adams
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [22:55]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
So this is the part of the show where with the help of our partners, Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. James Mackey's with us this week. We're going to talk about various markets in the Premier League. We're going to start with who's going to win it and I'm going to guess you're going to say that the team currently in 8th position aren't particularly high up in the odds.
- [23:16]
James Mackey (Betfair Analyst)
No, you're absolutely right. We'll start with Arsenal though. Arsenal were 9 to 4 at the start of the season. Second favorites with ourselves and now as short as 8 to 13. Obviously four points clear of Manchester City. They're now the second favorites at 9 to 4. Haven't been as big as 7 to 2, but you're right, the big mover in the market is my beloved Liverpool. They were seven to four favorites at the start of the season to go and win back to back titles. They're now out to 10 to 1. But the big move, Matt, is Sunderland trying to do a Leicester style season, 1000 to 1 at the start of the season to win the league. Now into 201 and only seven points behind Arsenal. So they're the story at the moment in that market.
- [23:52]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Right. I might keep my money in my pocket as regards Sunderland winning the Premier League. I wonder what kind of odds they are in terms of a top four finish. So this is really interesting, isn't it? You've got Arsenal, City, Chelsea, teams we'd expect to be in there, but then it's Sunderland and then it's spurs and Aston Villa. So I bet there's some value here.
- [24:10]
James Mackey (Betfair Analyst)
Yeah, there definitely is some value here. One of the biggest movers for us and it's a difficult one because Sunderland aren't still expected to get into that top four and obviously the market still thinks they'll peter away slightly. The big movers in the market for us have been Bournemouth. Bournemouth were 331 at the start of the season. Now into 17 2, only one point out the top four at the moment. Man United have been slightly cut as well from 3 to 1 into 52 after turning it around so far this season. But they're not the finished article and palace actually have been really big movers. 25 to 1 into 10 to 1, just two points off that top four. Spurs, even though they sit fifth, were 4 to 1 at the start of the season to get top four and now out to 9 to 1. So punters are getting behind the teams that they didn't expect rather than the teams they did.
- [24:54]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Relegation Also fascinating. The theme of the show this week is about how unpredictable the Premier League is this season. You've got likes of Newcastle only two points above the bottom three. Wolves cut adrift but how's it looking for everybody else?
- [25:07]
James Mackey (Betfair Analyst)
Yeah it's another one of them where the market expects Newcastle not to go down so the price is a big one. But Sunderland are the story here. They were one to three to go down at the start of the season. Back down to the championship now out to 152 and that's just remarkable really for a side that's come up and where they're sitting at the moment. You mentioned Wolves on the other hand they were three to one at the start of the season which looks a great price now doesn't it? Now they're 1 to 33 on. Can rob Edwards turn that around? Burnley, they haven't moved in price. They're still one to four but the likes of West Ham are now odds on at 10 to 11 from 5 to 1 before a ball was kicked and I'm sorry I've got to bring it up but Forest following a similar path been much better recently. Sean Dyche seems to be turning things around, but they were 8:1 now into 3:1. There's plenty of teams down there, plenty of teams that are in a bit of trouble. I think Forest will be safe Matt.
- [25:55]
Podcast Host Matt Davis Adams
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [25:59]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Only two points between 10th place Crystal palace and 13th Everton. Brighton and Brentford sandwiched in between them. Got to give some props haven't we Tim to Keith Andrews. Tough gig to come into. Word was he went for and didn't get the MK dons job before he got this one. Started with defeat at Forest. Conceded from a set piece in the opening five minutes. He was of course, their set piece coach last season. He's really turned it round and, and given the players that he's lost, it's. It's excellent stuff.
- [26:29]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
It's horrible to see MK Dons making. Making bad decisions like that, isn't it, Matt? I guess. I guess we probably underestimated Brentford as a club. I mean, it shows the value of how well run they are and the good staff they've got behind the scenes and obviously very good recruitment and good succession plans on and off the pitch. And apart from Sunderland, they're probably in the surprise package. I mean, I know they're in the bottom half, but to be six points ahead of the bottom three at this point definitely exceeds the expectations I had for them and most people had for them. And I think you'd put Keith Andrews as the sort of surprise package as a manager. I think you put Jordan Henderson as the surprise package as a player. Again, I'll hold my hands up. I thought he was completely past it. I thought he'd gone to Saudi to retire basically. But he's sort of shown this resilience and resolve and character and desire that we always hear about about him, you know, from Southgate and now Tuchel. Absolutely love. But it, look, it's getting him to a place at the end of his career that none of us sort of thought he would get to, where he's a key figure in a Premier League midfield again. Sort of like Sunderland and Bournemouth. They've got a really nice blend to their team, like youth and experience. They defend well. Good set pieces. Igor Thiago with the goals and yeah, it's hard to see them getting sucked into the, into the bottom three at the moment.
- [27:42]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Igor Thiago, who Tim mentions there, Megan, he's the archetypal. He's like a new signing. We barely saw anything of him last season because of injury. What a massive boost that must be to Keith Andrews given that he lost in Burmo and Wissa. He would have hoped that Igor Thiago would have been able to chip in and hit the ground running. But given that he only started one league game last season, he's been a proper revelation.
- [28:05]
Megan Feringer (Football Writer)
Yeah, he's been, he's been fantastic because in Uomo and wissa, responsible for 60% of Brentford's goals. And Tim had mentioned that Brentford have been so good at losing players in their recruitment and this is kind of what they do. They lose a player and then somehow they don't just replace that player, but they get better in A way or they get more dynamic and they find a way to. To recover. But when you lose 60% of your goal threat, it just didn't feel like it was probably going to be possible. And then you lose Thomas Frank as well as manager, who in a very technical sense is responsible for possibly 100% of those goals because he's the one that's overseeing all of it. And to do this is. Is great. So I do think part of this is just in Brentford's blueprint and in their DNA. They know how to respond to these kinds of things because that's the kind of club that they are. But I think Thiago's been. Been wonderful and again, like, the stats sort of show that he's got a shot conversion rate of 32%. One of the best in the Premier League. When you watch him play, he's physical. He's just tenacious in the press. Really good in the aerial duels and again, like second in the league, I think, for aerial duels, one among strikers. I was reading something about like what a former coach had said about him, just saying that he's a nightmare for defenders to have to deal with and, you know, Brentford have capitalized on that. So it's really fun too, because you don't really expect a player to have such a wonderful sort of inspiring redemption arc in this way. And I really like that Brentford have gotten that player to do it. It's a bit like, you know, Bournemouth with Semino. You want these players to do well for these clubs because you also secretly kind of want to root for those clubs to continue to do well. You don't want to see a club get, you know, picked apart and then dropping down through the leagues again.
- [29:41]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Tim Palace, Brighton and Everton, the other clubs in this particular cluster, out of those three, palace the only team would be satisfied with where they are. It's that harsh. Everton kind of always a bit up and down and Brighton with no Europe, might have hoped to be a little bit further up the table.
- [29:58]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Yeah, I had high hopes for, for Brighton this season, which obviously may still be the case, but kind of looked at their recruitment in the last couple of years and they signed a lot of players a year ago, sort of. Well, all, all a 19 to 25 with the idea that they would sort of kick on after a year. That hasn't, hasn't really happened so far this season and they're sort of relying on the oldest guy, Danny Welbeck. So yeah, no danger of relegation for them this season. But in terms of Sort of pushing for Europe. I've not really seen the signs from them yet that they're capable of doing that.
- [30:30]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
What about Newcastle? Languishing down in 14th. They've only won three of their 11. Bad for them. Good for me. To get to. You use the word languishing. Probably expecting to feel the effects of losing Alexander Isaac. But that's not the extent of the issues. I don't think, Megan, it's a bit reflective of the last time they're in the Champions League and they struggled to juggle both that and the Premier League.
- [30:51]
Megan Feringer (Football Writer)
Yeah, there's. There's the element of not being able to juggle those issues. And then two, you know, their waveform has just been terrible. It's not been good. This is from last season. There's a softness to Newcastle you don't really expect from them. And that. That has been. It's a theme. It's not just been this season. It was last season as well. But you expect Newcastle to be more resilient, more robust, just a little bit tougher. And it doesn't feel like they. This is gonna sound weird. Like it doesn't feel like Newcastle Snarl anymore. Like it feels like Newcastle was like a snarling kind of club. And they don't. It doesn't feel like they do that. So suddenly. If you have Newcastle coming to you, to your stadium, you're not kind of nervous about, is this going to be physical? Is this going to be kind of nasty? Are they going to find a way to win? You don't see that.
- [31:34]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Can't rely on their home form, Tim, can they? I mean, their away forms, absolutely atrocious. They got city coming to St. James's park after the break, but yet to win a game on the road in the league. Everton, Sunderland, Man United. Next three away games, it needs sorting quickly.
- [31:49]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Yeah, I was at the West Ham game weekend or two ago and like Megan used the word soft and. Yeah, I thought. I thought soft and passive. And they sort of let West Ham control the game. And West Ham had been on this terrible run, hadn't won yet under Nuno, and they won it pretty convincingly. And yeah, two away games in a row where they've took the lead and lost pretty convincingly, which is definitely a concern. When they were in the Champions League a couple of years ago, the league form suffered and I just think. I think we're seeing the same again. They're also doing well in the Carabao cup into the quarters, doing well in the Champions League. And I think they've got an issue combining all three which is understandable. You know they've not got the deepest squad and their recruitment in recent years has occasionally been non existent. So I think the squad has sort of suffered as a result of that. And obviously the Isaac saga was a huge distraction all summer. So all these things combined certain players out of form, certain players like Anthony Gordon. Yeah, Volta Marder's sort of gone missing in the last couple of weeks. It's not like panic stations yet. It's not like get the alarm bells ringing sort of Michael Scott gif, everyone stay calm kind of stuff just yet. But a few more weeks and it probably will be.
- [32:58]
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- [34:46]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Foreign.
- [34:50]
Podcast Host Matt Davis Adams
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [34:55]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Now let's get into the bottom six. Fulham fans, we're not going to skip past you this week. We're 11 games into the season. Your top scorer is own goals. Harry Wilson and Ryan Sessignon have got a couple each, but a combination of Jason Mosquera, Ethan Pinnock and Gabrielle Goodmunson have registered more goals for Marco Silva's side. Michael Cox might have summed it up best. He wrote, the Premier league has gone 1990s, an era when Fulham weren't in it. Tim, they're struggling to compete this season. I mean, probably not helped by the fact that it seems to me pretty obvious that he's going to be off at the end of the campaign. Isn't he out of contract. Doesn't seem that happy there, that that can't be good for him.
- [35:33]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
All the players potentially, although I'm reading about contract talks potentially, and I think he's. He's surprised them before by staying in the, in the past. But yeah, I mean Fulham, they're just not doing anything unexpected. Like I think they've won three matches at home. They beat Wolves, obviously, and then they beat Leeds and Brentford. Home form is fine. And then they've pretty much. They've lost every away game except at Brighton where they got a 97th minute equaliser on the opening day. So, yeah, I think, I think lack of creativity is definitely an issue. There's like nobody sort of driving that team forward really in an attacking sense. Josh King is a hell of a talent, but he's, he's a kid. Jimenez is at the opposite end of his career. Muniz hasn't really kicked on as they would have liked. Kevin has been there was their big sign in who's sort of taking time to settle. So they're probably where they should be, Matt, to be honest. And that in itself is. Is a bit of an indictment on their summer where they just didn't strengthen properly, didn't improve the squad. So you know you're going to float if you do that. And they are floating. And I think Marco Silva's future will definitely be having an impact on the players as the season goes on. You know, is this guy going to stay? Where's this club going? They're not buying any players. The manager's out of contract. They're charging £100 for the, for the privilege of being there. It's going one. One way @ the moment and that's towards a relegation scrap. And I'm not sure how they turn that around at the moment, to be honest.
- [36:56]
Megan Feringer (Football Writer)
They've got a nice walk by the river when you go to a game now.
- [36:58]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Yes.
- [36:59]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Yeah. And good news about the swimming pool on top of the stand.
- [37:02]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Yes.
- [37:02]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
As well. Particularly at this time of year. Good for them. Megan below them. Leeds in 16th, Burnley in 17th on the one hand. Good to see two of the promoted sides not in the bottom three. Well, none of them are, but these two just outside of it. On the other hand, I wonder if they're starting to slow down a bit. I mean, that's not a massive statement, is it, when one's lost four of their last five and the other four of their last six.
- [37:26]
Megan Feringer (Football Writer)
Yeah, I think it was a really good start and they kind of showed a bit of a savvy that maybe they hadn't showed in previous times. And you expect that from teams that have gone up and gone back down and then you can't just play the way that you won the championship. Have to kind of recalibrate a little bit and realize, right, we have to go sort of maybe a converse in a way, but at the end of the day that I just don't think the individual quality is necessarily there. And I think teams are starting to kind of capitalize on that. Even the teams beneath them. You know, West Ham and Nottingham Forest, you still look at those squads and you go, if you put them against each other, you'd still expect the other two to kind of to pull out a result. So especially for Leeds, it's a lack of goals. I mean, Joe Roden, who's a center back, is amongst their top goal scorer. That's probably not going to be something that you can rely on to get to the end of the season and stay out of the relegation zone. So it comes down to individual quality. I think both teams probably need to recruit pretty heavily in the in January. Just recruit smartly. Like Tim had said earlier, it's not about doing a lot of recruitment, just being smart about it. Judging from recent form, I think both teams are probably going to start to have a bit of a dip going into Christmas. Y' all can clip that up and prove me wrong. Don't worry about it.
- [38:32]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
But yeah, I might be recruiting a new manager before too long as well. At least one of the muscle leads live in living color last weekend and they were farking awful just below them. West Ham and Forest, you both enjoyed rubbernecking on my pain this season. Particularly you, Tim. This is your chance to tell me that everything's actually going to be okay.
- [38:53]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
I mean, it's a weird one. Matt, I. I love this juxtaposition between spurs fans utterly miserable in in fifth and booing the team off and everything's crisis. And then Forest in 19th seem happy as Larry to me. It's like they're on the way up, everything's great and those teams were opposite ends of the table last season. I guess it shows you something about just those people. Hey, Matt.
- [39:13]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
But what's the common factor there? I'll tell you what it is, is Ange Postecoglou and how people used to say, you don't want to be the guy who follows Sir Alex Ferguson. You really do want to be the guy that follows Ange Postecoglou. If you're. If you're Forrest.
- [39:27]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Well, that is damning. I hope he's not listening. Got a lot of time on his hands at the moment, so he might be. But what are you feeling? Pretty optimistic, Matt.
- [39:34]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Pretty optimistic is a stretch. I feel like we might not get relegated, which is about as much as we could hope for from the Premier League this season. Kind of difficult to read too much into that Leeds game because as I say, they. They weren't particularly impressive. But the regression of Leeds and Burnley is certainly helpful from a Forest point of view, I think. And I guess Megan West Ham are going to be thinking the same. Right. They. They made the managerial change just to one of them. And it's starting to bear fruit for them with Nuno getting his feet under the table and points on the board.
- [40:03]
Megan Feringer (Football Writer)
Yeah. And it's taken a little bit of time. He's obviously had to tinker a little bit and figure out kind of what he wants from the squad. But it was at the last game he fielded the same starting from the game prior. So that shows a level of consistency. He's kind of starting to work it out. And again, like you look at that squad and individually speaking, they are better than some of the teams around them. You expect them to start to pick up points and get out of the relegation zone. So I think. And Nuno too, he's. He is a good manager for his fans will back that up. They probably didn't want to see him leave. So I think they'll be fine. It sounds like that kind of just sounds very resigned, like, you'll be fine, don't worry about it. But it doesn't. It doesn't feel like they have too much to worry about at the end of the season.
- [40:43]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Wouldn't say the same, I'm afraid, Tim, for the team at the very, very bottom.
- [40:47]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Here we go.
- [40:49]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Rob Edwards is in place. He's a handsome bugger, but that's probably not going to be enough to keep them up. Do you think he's got any chance and will they stick by him if and when they do go down?
- [40:59]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
Oh, well, I mean, they're saying that they're going to do that and it's a three and a half year contract. And, yeah, when we get relegated, I kind of feel like he'd be the ideal manager. Like a guy who, you know, inverted commas, knows the club and got Luton promoted and got Middlesbrough in the top two, he'd be ideal. But I do worry, and I say this on behalf of myself and all Wolves fans, that the next few months are going to be so horrendous that, you know, how do you sort of come through that and, you know, get on with life when May comes around and you're relegated? So, like, what I'm saying is, is he going to be damaged by the experience of the next six months? Yeah, I'd say we've got. We've got a 5% chance of staying up. We've got palace at home next, which is first match, then Villa away. If we get four points minimum from that, which I realize he's asking a lot. He's only got two so far. And I did get laughed at in the group chat when I put this. By the lads, when I put this in, then we've got. We've got a 5% chance. Just, you know, build a bit of momentum. And to be fair, I think he will do that. And the XG numbers, as one of the producers of this show who supports Arsenal, said yesterday, and definitely not in a condescending way, that, you know, it's going to be fine. Tim, your XG numbers aren't that bad. I was like, great, the XG numbers aren't that bad. I think we're like the 13th best defense, so come on. Yeah, no, I'm. I'm happy we've got a new manager. I do, I do like Rob Edwards. I think he will unite the club to an extent and get the players on board. Yeah, but we're not going to stay up.
- [42:21]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
Yeah, I was at the. The game at Stamford Bridge and looked all right for the first half, but, man, that looked like a bunch of broken players at full time. So big job on for Rob Edwards there. Just to round off then, are we enjoying the unpredictability of the Premier League this season? And, Megan, do you think it's going to continue or is it going to be one of those where we completely forget that this is what we were talking about in November come May?
- [42:44]
Megan Feringer (Football Writer)
I actually think it's going to continue. I think Tim made a really good point at the very start of this, which is it's so congested at the moment. Like if you took away A win from each of the teams probably in the top 10 or top 15. Like each one of them is going to be in a different spot. And I don't think we were really saying that the last couple of years. So, no, I think it's. I think it'll stay unpredictable. I love that it's unpredictable. I love that it's. Clubs that generally don't tend to gravitate towards the top, are at the top and that we've got teams, sorry, like Wolves and West End and Forest that are down there because it makes the relegation battle not as samey. It's not like we're just, you know, looking at the same clubs coming up and they're going back down. So this is only good for the Premier League, for the product itself, even if it is turning into a super league. It is a good thing. Not the Super League part, the unpredictability bit.
- [43:29]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
It's also really good for Tony Pulis, isn't it, Tim? Because he is not wanting for media work at the moment, given all these long throws and. And back to basics tactics. Is this something that's contributing to the unpredictability or does it just make the actual football a bit less interesting?
- [43:43]
Tim Spears (Football Analyst)
I think it is. I think it probably helps level out the playing field a little bit. You know, if. If your club has got a really good set piece, coach, you know, like Aston Villas have, then that's a big advantage right now. I watched the Villamats last week against Bournemouth and they had two corners in the second half, about 10 minutes apart, from the same position, the same side, the same player taking it, Luca Dean. And they did two completely different corners that both resulted in a goal. One was sort of flung into the near post after some inventive running, and the next was played short and across the box and stuck it in. So I was like, it's so. It's so impressive. And I do think this kind of thing about, you know, all the long throws and set pieces, I think it's massively overplayed, to be honest. You know, people look at, like, stats like, oh, there's half a goal fewer every match, and just go mental and just get very excited about being, you know, the loudest to shout on social media, sort of scream their hot take, about one fewer big chance per match this season. It's not. It's not really, you know, when you kind of look a few years ago, what we had with Guardiola's influence and death by a thousand passes, you know, that. That bored me to be honest. This sort of more direct style with set pieces, I think it suits English football probably a bit better. And the main thing is like the eye test, I'm not watching matches this season thinking I'm I'm bored, to be honest. And I think, yeah, it definitely does help level out the playing field. And that's a good thing for sure.
- [45:03]
Megan Feringer (Football Writer)
I've definitely not heard one time in a pub someone go, damn, I've really missed that average half chance I get every single match. Like I just haven't heard that. So there you go.
- [45:12]
Matt Davis Adams (Presenter)
All right, shout out to Nanny McPhee's grandson and all the other set piece coaches in the Premier League, then that's where we're going to leave things for this week. Thanks to Tim and to Megan and producer Jay and to even lift, of course. Have a great weekend. We'll catch up with you soon.
- [45:27]
Podcast Host Matt Davis Adams
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producer is Jay Beal and the presenter was Matt Davis Adams. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Aiddy Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production and proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [46:03]
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- [46:30]
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