Matt Davis Adams (3:36)

Yeah, absolutely. James, you've just returned from. From Arna Slot's press conference ahead of the game against West Ham this weekend. Presumably this was the. The topic that dominated the discussion. What kind of mood was he in and how's the feeling around the.

Ryan Reynolds (3:50)

Yeah, you won't be surprised to learn that Arne Slot walked in with a big grin on his face. You could see that he was absolutely delighted that he'd be getting to work with someone as elite as Mohamed Salah for another couple of seasons.

Podcast Host (4:05)

He's shown at this club for so many years in a row now how much of value he has for the team, for the club. So as like, I assume all our fans and his teammates were very happy that he extended for two more years.

Ryan Reynolds (4:19)

All the way through this saga. Slot has been very, very clear that he was desperate for Salah to stay put. And yeah, he spoke very well actually about just the importance of keeping him, not only in terms of what he can continue to give Liverpool in terms of the pursuit of trophies, but he said he actually thinks it'll have a positive impact in terms of when it comes to trying to recruit players this summer, because he said, you know, when you can say to someone you're trying to sign, well, look, you know, Mohamed Salah certainly believes in the direction we're heading because he wants to stick around and cement his Anfield legacy. And he also. Slot was full of praise for Richard Hughes. He's obviously Come in for some criticism along the way. The fact that these contract sagas have dragged on so long but the fact that it's reached a positive conclusion and also praise, he said, for the ownership in terms of. He said he thinks this underlines their ambition. The fact that they were willing to push the boat out. He talked about effort and money being kind of channeled into making this a reality.

Matt Davis Adams (5:21)

Well, that's interesting because that leads us on to my next question. David fsg known for being reluctant to extend players contracts when they are getting toward the tail end of their careers. James mentions there the kind of pull that Salah in particular would have on other potential signings. Is that why they made an exception in the case of these two players?

Podcast Host (5:42)

First thing you said their mat is reluctant. So it's not a rule or a policy, it's just more precedent and based on their analysis of players previously current and I'm sure they'll continue into the future. If players are performing, they've shown no reluctance to give them very lucrative contracts. Just look at Liverpool's financial results and their wage bill. It is not small. To the contrary, it's higher than many of their competitors in the Premier League. And so it was always possible that they would go in a different direction with these two than they have on some of the previous ones such as say A Wijnaldum, Jordan, Henderson and Firmino I think as well. So this is seismic on a few levels. Liverpool retain great players who will help them stay competitive. Imagine trying to replace these two. Not just in terms of being able to find players of the suitable caliber, but the cost implications of doing so. With no guarantee you'd get anywhere near this level. I think the risk of renewing them is far lower than the risk of seeing them go. It also buys them a couple of years to work on the succession plans which you could say is really sensible. They can scour the market with less pressure now. If it was just a one year extension we'd be having this conversation for another 12 months. They could have gone elsewhere if they wanted to, but they want to stay at Liverpool. Both of them absolutely love it. That wasn't always the case. Do you remember all those years when you know, there seemed to be this perception. Who was it Alexis Sanchez who wanted to move to London and ended up joining Arsenal? He didn't want to come to Liverpool or the northwest. I'm sitting in the area now. I love it. But clearly not all footballers did and they seem to do so now in particular Liverpool. Their appeal, their attraction Anfield, the atmosphere, the chances of success and very lucrative salaries. So that's really significant in, in all of this as well. And then maybe we'll come on to talk about it in greater depth. The, the setup at, at Liverpool, you know, FSG get a lot of criticism from sections of the fan base, but their overall record from a sporting perspective and a financial one as well, is pretty strong. And so. So that nucleus that they've got at the top of the club, they're not perfect, but they've done something here that I think is really impressive and they've also done it in a very cordial and understated and subtle way. There's been no briefings from the club, no mudslinging like you see in a lot of contract situations. It's been quiet, it's been dignified. Even when the players have spoken, you've. You've heard nothing from the club. And ultimately, you know, however difficult it was, they've got it done. And if you want to call something a mistake, maybe it's leaving the Trent, Alexander Arnold one so late when he's at a younger stage, and maybe that should have been nipped in the bud prior and now it looks like it will end up with him leaving. So, yeah, overall it's job well done on so many levels.

Matt Davis Adams (8:46)

David mentions Trent there. James, how important was it for. For the ownership to. To get Salah and Van Dijk tied up given that there's been all this, I mean, I say uncertainty, it seems more certain that he's leaving with Alexander Arnold. It would have been a really bad look if all three of them had gone, I guess.

Ryan Reynolds (9:05)

Yeah, I don't really go along with this idea that kind of Trent being bound for Real Madrid meant that there was greater pressure on them to keep the other two. I think the pressure stemmed just from how good Salah and Van Dijk have been as individuals and how influential they are in a team that's about to win the Premier League title. I think even if Trent had long since penned an extension to stay at Anfield, I don't think the clamor to keep hold of Salah and Van Dijk would have been any different. Really? Because you look at Salah's Numbers, they're crazy. 32 goals, 22 assists in 45 games in all competitions so far this season, he's almost nailed on to win the Golden Boot. I'd say he almost nailed on as well to sweep the board in terms of the PFA and Football Writers Players of the Year award. And then Van Dijk has just been this absolute defensive rock on which this title challenge has been built. The Trent one was always very different in terms of the three kind of situations that Richard Hughes inherited about a year ago. Trent was always going to be the much more difficult one to solve because the age of 26 and having been allowed to get into his last year and you had Real Madrid's sustained pursuit of him just lingering away in the background. I think, you know, it's been clear for quite some time that the most likely outcome was that two of the three would stay and that the one who would would move on would be Trent.

Matt Davis Adams (10:30)

James. Do you think that the fact that Salah and Van Dijk are staying might soften some Liverpool supporters feelings towards Trent leaving or is that an entirely separate thing?

Ryan Reynolds (10:41)

Yeah, I think it's a separate thing. It certainly divides opinion amongst a lot of fans that I speak to in the city on a day to day basis. You know, I know lots of people who just think, you know what Trent, Alexander Arnold has given Liverpool 20 years service. I mean, first walked through the door at the age of six, he's won everything and you know, if he wants to go and experience a new culture, new country and be part of a, you know, obviously a global juggernaut in Real Madrid, then good luck to him. But of course there's the other side of it that how could a local lad who's spoken previously about wanting to one day be captain of his boyhood club, how could he walk away especially when the team is doing so well? Because of course when you go back to people like McManaman and Owen who have made the same kind of trip to the Bernabeu, it was different because they left in pursuit of glory. Yet the feeling is that why would you want to leave when Liverpool are being so successful at the start of a new era under Arnold slot? But I don't think these new deals for Van Dijk and Salah will kind of have much impact in terms of. I think people are pretty entrenched already on the way they regard the Trent situation.

Matt Davis Adams (11:55)

And we're assuming, David, are we, that there's no chance that there'll be a turnaround from Alexander Arnold and he'll end up signing a new contract as well.

Podcast Host (12:03)

Well, all we know is that Real Madrid have been working to close this out and they made an offer to sign him permanently in January. Liverpool turned it down. Whether it was a sort of formal offer or an approach is probably semantics, but they seemed prepared to pay for him and that was not on the agenda for Liverpool, who saw more value in keeping him and still trying to tie him down to new terms. We've not heard anything from Alexander Arnold throughout this, which is something he said would be the case from the start. But you know, when Real Madrid come knocking for a player, they tend to get them. We've not heard noises to suggest that a new contract is coming his way. I mean there have clearly been offers. We reported that and for whatever reason, and we'll try and find this out in due course, it hasn't gone in the same direction so far as, as Van Dijk and Salah. I guess as long as nothing is signed to our knowledge then then people can sort of speculate. But we don't have any reason for Liverpool fans so far to get their hopes up that he would be staying. I think there seems to be an acceptance now that he's on his way. I know there's a lot of emotion around it, but there is a lot of background to this as well. And you know, I'm not sure apportioning blame is the right thing, but clearly it was a situation that was. Was left to a pretty late point for an absolutely key player. And you can understand as a neutral the, the appeal of a move to Real Madrid. He's had an amazing career virtually his whole life at Liverpool and it will be really painful. But among a lot of the criticism we've seen, there is also a huge amount of realistic reaction and fair. Maybe it's not as noisy and vocal as some of the more toxic reaction and you can understand it all. It's a really complicated situation. The only thing that's been clear is that he appears to have conducted himself to high standards. Everybody speak to at and around the club suggest that all three of them have been the ultimate professionals and those on the other side of, of the negotiations that these things don't always work out perfectly. And I understand how people feel on every side of it but it's not something that I sense has been sort of acrimonious or Trent, Alexander Arnold pushing for this. You know, it's. It's something that has kind of just evolved for whatever reason and I guess we've got to respect that.

Matt Davis Adams (14:42)

Okay, so looks like Trent's off then. We'll take a little break here. When we come back we'll talk more about why Salah and Van Dyke have chosen to stay.

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Matt Davis Adams (16:58)

So Mohamed Salah turned up the heat on Liverpool's hierarchy in January by speaking publicly about the lack of progress over talks on a New Deal. Van Dijk adopted a different approach. James what are the motivating factors behind them staying? I mean is, is it simply money? Is it the assurances they've been given about where the club is going with a lack of offers from elsewhere maybe?

Ryan Reynolds (17:19)

No, I certainly don't think the motivation was money because certainly in the case of Salah, with that, that deal now being done, the understanding is the, the terms are very similar to what he was on previously. I think there's lots of factors. I think the biggest thing will be the fact that they see a club that's competing at the top end on the brink of winning the Premier League, guaranteed to be in the Champions League again next season. And I think when you kind of for both Salah and Van Dijk, when they looked around and of course their agents wouldn't have been doing their jobs properly if they hadn't assessed all the other alternatives out there, it was like, well, why would they want to go anywhere else? Because of course at the age they are with, you know, Salah approaching his 33rd birthday in June, Van Dijk turning 34 this summer, not every big club in Europe was going to be wanting to pay massive wages for players in the twilight of their career. But in saying that they would have had other options. But I think both players, from the contact I've had with them, they've always massively appreciated what they've got at Liverpool. I think they know that if they did go elsewhere, that kind of adoration that they're afforded at Anfield, the status they've got, what they mean to the people of the city and the fans inside Anfield on a weekly basis. You look at Salah and it's like he's been unbelievable for Liverpool over the last eight years. He's risen up the ranks to third in their all time goal scoring list behind only Ian Rush and Roger Hunt. But also Liverpool has been incredible for him. Liverpool have always played in a way that suits him and plays to his strengths and that has enabled him to become this absolute global superstar. And I think he's always been appreciative of that. I think also with Salah and the same with Van Dijk, their families are settled happy in Cheshire, not too far away from Liverpool then that's another factor with Salah especially. We know that there's been this ongoing interest from the Saudi Pro league. But going back to David mentioned about when I spoke to Salah after the game at Southampton back in November when he famously said I'm probably more out than in and said he hadn't had an offer to stay. You know, I asked him then about the possibility of playing in Saudi and he kind of shrugged it off as if like, no, no, I'm not even thinking about anything like that because he's such a competitive animal. He was. I never thought that he was ready to kind of like throw the towel in really on elite level football because he loves breaking records and he was not ready to take a step away from the highest level. And the same with van Dijk because both of them been so integral to this title challenge. I think they just thought, well, ultimately why would they want to be anywhere else?

Matt Davis Adams (20:22)

Key figures on the pitch, both of them. And we've mentioned Richard Hughes a few times in the podcast. David, this is a massive, a massive win for him, isn't it? He was in a difficult position with the, the captain, the vice captain and the top scorer all going into the final 12 months of their contracts. You've said that he's, he's had a bit of stick online from sections of, of the Liverpool support. This is a great way to get people on side, I suppose.

Podcast Host (20:45)

Yeah. Whether it does get people on side or not, let's wait and see. And whether it really matters, whether he cares, I don't know. But it certainly is a significant moment in his early career at Liverpool. If it had gone the other way with such two dec and loved players, I think it would have been very difficult. It was not an easy time when the hierarchy changed and I mean Jurgen Klopp's departure, Joerg Schmatke had already gone. Michael Edwards came back. Richard Hughes was appointed. There have been a number of others. David Woodfine returned as his assistant and so on and having to replace, having to replace Jurgen Klopp is, is no small challenge. And, and you know, they, they got criticism in, in some quarters for the, for the slot appointment and bringing in a coach from the Dutch league. And there had been so much talk about Xabi Alonso prior and it was perceived by some that they had failed to land him. When I think it was pretty clear to them early on that Alonso planned to stay at Leverkusen battling back from that and then a transfer wind. The only sort of notable player that they went for was Martin Zubamendi and they didn't manage to land him. That created, you know, a lot of anxiety justifiably in sections of the fan base and the way that the season has progressed, especially in the Premier League. Richard Hughes is among those who deserve some credit now. Of course they would have all liked to have done better in The Champions League Cup Final and. And also the FA cup and. And there are definite areas for improvement. They've got a lot of work on their hands, contracts, transfers, ins and outs this summer. It's big and they want to be competitive again next season. But, you know, the evidence of what we've seen and what on the outside and what we hear from the inside, despite that criticism, skepticism stick is fairly impressive, I think, and I think Liverpool sort of compartmentalize it. You've got slot and Hughes working more on the team and making decisions such as Mo Salah and Virgil van Dijk from a football perspective. And you'll have somebody like Michael Edwards above looking at the market and what else is out there. It's a pretty streamlined, lean process and Edwards is trusted by FSG to get these decisions right. So it's not just a Richard Hughes thing. I think we bring the others into play on that as well. Very much slot and Edwards part of it. But you know, the, the fans ultimately, whatever the sort of ins and outs and the timings of it all, wanted Richard Hughes to deliver on the contracts and he has helped do so with Salaren van Dijk. Obviously the Alexander Arnold one is more complicated, as we've discussed, but then the sort of judgment fairly or unfairly continues. Let's see what happens in the coming months in the transfer window as the squad continues to need to be built competitive with rivals who are going to invest again in Manchester City, at Arsenal, at Manchester United, at Chelsea, at Tottenham and Aston Villa. And Richard Hughes has to play an absolutely integral role in keeping Liverpool at the top. It was a big step up from Bournemouth, but his work there appears to be being vindicated. Fantastic how some of those signings have settled in and performed. How the manager, Andonia Raiola, has excelled on the whole. A really promising start from him. And also when you do speak to people, I've said this many times in football, I've got no sort of personal insight other than the. The voices of other sporting directors, executives, people who work in recruitment at Bournemouth and elsewhere, they. They do speak well of Richard Hughes and people thought that, you know, if timings have been different and the Arsenal vacancy that later arose when Edu left, someone like Hughes, who had played for Arsenal before would have. Would have been a contender for that and has been looked at by other clubs and Liverpool fans rightly have really high expectations and a supporter base who demand success. But the judgment of sporting directors tends to be over years. We saw Eddie Howe mention that when he was appraising Dan Ashworth's departure from Newcastle, I don't really know. It's only been a couple of years and a sporting director's quality is judged in a much longer period. We're going to have to see how Richard Hughes performs here on and that will be the true evaluation. But so far in a difficult circumstance, most people who are more qualified to speak about this than me think he's doing pretty well.

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Matt Davis Adams (26:23)

Now then, over on our dedicated Liverpool podcast, Walk On. Simon Hughes has been assessing what impact resolving the contract uncertainty with Salah and Van Dijk could have on the Reds summer transfer plans.

Simon Hughes (26:34)

I think they've got to go and be ambitious this summer. It's the summer to. I mean, the bottom line is if FSG want to increase the value of the club, well, the value of the club is going to increase the more successful it is. And you don't always have to. I'm not saying they should be spending tons and tons of cash, but they certainly have to think about who they sign and capitalize on moments of opportunity, which they haven't done in the past. For example, when they went close to winning in 2014, they sold the best player, spent all that money on, you know, five or six players, some of whom didn't work out whatsoever. So at moments of opportunity they haven't always made the right decisions. I think over the last 15 years they tended to be better when it's been building slowly 12 players each summer. When there's been big decisions to be made across one summer, they haven't always got it right. And this feels a little bit like that 2014 summer where it feels like there's quite a bit of surgery that needs to be done to that team and that squad to keep it competitive over a longer period of time.

Matt Davis Adams (27:36)

James, you were on Walk on with Simon. Do you share his views and how much business do you think Liverpool actually need to do this summer? Because it was just Chiesa who came in last time around. It's got to be different this time, surely.

Ryan Reynolds (27:47)

Yeah, yeah, it will certainly be Busier And I think that's another element to this news that now that Salah has signed and we know that Van Dijk is on the brink of signing that it makes what would have been hugely turbulent summer considerably less so. Because I think when you look at the kind of the surgery that's needed to the Liverpool squad this summer, if you were trying to replace, you know, one of the greatest center backs in Premier League history and one of the greatest goal scorers in Premier League history, you know, not only is that incredibly difficult but it's incredibly expensive. So I think that certainly lightens the load a little bit in terms of what the challenge facing Richard Hughes and Michael Edwards come this summer. I mean Liverpool do need reinforcements, they need to strengthen at left back. We've seen, you know, Andy Robertson's come in for a fair bit of criticism. I don't think he's been anywhere near as bad as some of that criticism has made out. But more really in terms of succession planning now that he's 31. You need to bring someone else in to add competition in that position. Of course, on the other side at right back, you've got with Trent Alexander Arnold expected to move on. As good as Conor Bradley is, you know, he's had a lot of injury issues and you're going to need someone else to compete in there. Even with Van Dijk staying, I think centre half is an area where Liverpool will 100% look to strengthen because you've got that ongoing contract situation with Konate who's down to his final year and Joe Gomez has had well documented injury problems. And then further up the field you look at Gravenberg sensational for the first 2/3 of the season but I think we've seen in the last couple of months he has been overplayed and overworked and I think you need someone who's going to be able to ease the burden on him in that midfield area at times. And then the top end of the pitch is going to be fascinating because neither Darwin Nunes nor Diogo Jota has really managed to nail down that number nine spot. And that's another area where you know, Liverpool are crying out for, for some activity in the market this summer. So yeah, there's a lot to do but it certainly makes it a lot easier when you're keeping hold of Salah and Van Dijk.

Matt Davis Adams (29:59)

Sounds like both of you can cancel your summer holidays that case then. David, you mentioned this earlier, but there's. Is there an immediate emphasis on finding the replacements for Salah and Van Dijk or because of the areas that James mentioned there that maybe need strengthening more immediately. Can they kick that can down the road a little bit?

Podcast Host (30:17)

Don't know. Liverpool are regarded as one of the sort of most proficient recruitment setups around. Some fans may laugh at that and say didn't sign anybody last summer but their recruitment record has been very good. Many of the personnel are now in their second stint at the club and obviously the aforementioned Richard Hughes is in the mix too. They'll be looking at players all the time, way ahead of the expiry of contracts for certain positions and a lot of it's unpredictable. The work is just ongoing. So we don't know how these next couple of years will go for Salah. Take him first. It may be incredible. He may even go on for longer for all we know. It may not go well, it may be indifferent. But Father Time catches up with everybody. So they're going to have to think about succession plans and they're already looking in the striker department. Let's see if Darwin Nunes does leave. I think that's a distinct possibility this summer and we've talked about the Isaac stuff in the past. Whether or not that happens, they'll have other players on their their list as well. We've got unknowns on players like Luis Diaz whose contract still hasn't been renewed. He was subject of interest last summer. He could well be the subject of interest again this summer. I suspect he will be. Whether or not he goes. These all affect that equation. It's pretty similar for, for Van Dijk and you know, there have been center backs that they've been looking at for some time. No doubt because it's an area that maybe Liverpool were perceived to have been a little bit thin in. Jared Brunthwaite is a player who Liverpool have been quite heavily linked with over the last couple of years. You know, I'm not saying that would happen. I'm just saying that that's an area of clear interest to them. And by the way, you know, when you see Van Dijk's contract renewal and we talk about the numbers and the finances, if you did go and get a brand, Thwaite, for example, for 70 million pounds plus salary for a player that not yet is anywhere near the level of Virgil Van Dijk, you would perhaps say that this was the most financially sensible thing to do from Liverpool's perspective. So I reported in my Q and A yesterday and others have documented recently that Dean Hoisen is very much on Liverpool's radar. He's a player They've got a strong interest in and I think given the Konate contract situation, you know, if somebody like Hoisen came in, I know he's only 19 but we've seen the quality that he possesses for Bournemouth and the Spain national team. I think he would start alongside Van Dijk. So we'll see how that one goes. They along with Arsenal Chelsea have held meetings with Hoisen's representatives in the last week. Newcastle Tottenham as well. But Liverpool firmly in the mix. I think it would be naive of us to think that Even though it's 2027 so Liverpool have a bit of breathing space that how advanced they are and how much attention they pay to the data and the analytics and their research department that they are already not thinking in their heads who might be the successors to these two players and others who they are. I don't know just yet.

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Matt Davis Adams (34:30)

All right, well as we wrap up here let's. Let's finish where we start with Salah and Van Dijk. James, do you have any concerns about their. Their levels of performance dropping off maybe next season? We've spoken that both have maybe tailed off a little bit in. In recent weeks. I guess that's been a common theme for Liverpool is that the title's pretty much done and dusted but do you think that they can maintain the heights that they started this season at over the next couple of years?

Ryan Reynolds (34:56)

Yeah, I do, I do. I think you know both of them are incredible professionals in terms of when you speak to people around Liverpool. They're the two that really set the standards in that dressing room on a daily basis in terms of how they lead their lives away from the club as well as when they're there over the course of this season. The kind of the argument that they can still go on delivering at this level, as you know, the evidence has just been compelling because they have just been so influential. Probably Liverpool's two best players in a team that went 26 league games unbeaten has blown everyone else away in the Premier League title race. I don't think a kind of a little bit of a stumble in recent weeks changes that. I think you know, Salah, he's only got what two, two goals, both penalties in his last seven. You know, a lot was made of, you know, Van Dijk having a couple of issues with Batto against Everton and then with Muniz at Fulham last weekend. But I think it's only because they've kind of set these crazy, crazy high standards that it's just when there's any little sign of it just dipping, people tend to pounce on it and analyze it for, for all it's worth. But yeah, I don't see this as a risk and you know, even, even, you know, worst case scenario if for whatever reason either of them, you know, did have a real dip next season then, then I think Liverpool know there would still be a market for them come next summer if that was felt that was needed. But I just don't think it will come to that. I would fully expect both Salah and Van Dijk to see out the new two year deals that obviously Salah already and that Van Dijk is on the brink of signing because they might be in the twilight years of their career but both of them have still got so much left to offer.

Matt Davis Adams (36:40)

Well, it's going to be fascinating to see how they fare for the rest of this season and beyond. That's where we'll leave it for today. Many thanks to James and to David for their expertise and to producer Jay for knocking it all together. The Athletic FC will be back on Monday. Bye for now.

Podcast Host (36:57)

You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast.

Matt Davis Adams (37:00)

The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Aidi Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places.

Podcast Host (37:11)

The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production. The Athletic FC Podcast network.