Spain conquer the world + Ornstein's summer transfers

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast — July 20, 2026

Episode: Spain conquer the world + Ornstein's summer transfers
Hosts: Adam Leventhal & David Crafton, with David Ornstein
Theme: World Cup Final aftermath—Spain’s triumph, Argentina’s collapse, and summer transfer intrigue.

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Episode Overview

In this post-World Cup finale, Adam Leventhal, David Crafton, and David Ornstein analyze Spain’s victory over Argentina in New York, unpacking the drama and sporting significance of the final. Moving beyond the match, the panel explores the behaviour of Argentina, Messi’s emotional exit, what the result means for England’s missed opportunity, broader World Cup culture, and dives into the most pressing transfer questions as European club football looms.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Argentina’s Disgrace and Messi’s Emotional Farewell

• Dissecting Argentina's performance:

  • The hosts agree Argentina were lackluster, toothless in attack (“barely had a shot in the entire game”), and resorted to poor discipline.
  • Messi was disappointingly “a passenger” on the pitch ([02:31], Adam Leventhal).
  • The team’s collective decision to turn their backs on Spain’s trophy lift was criticized as unsporting and “classless.”
    • Quote: “It was all pretty, pretty bleak… you lose the World cup and you turn your backs when Spain are lifting the trophy.” ([03:12], Adam Leventhal)
  • Discussion on crowd conduct: Argentina fans dominated, loudly chanting Messi's name even as Spain celebrated.

• Notable unsportsmanlike incidents:

  • Brutality as a theme: “The brutality is a theme of their tournament” ([04:31], David Ornstein).
  • Specific foul play including Enzo Fernandez’s altercation with England's Elliot Anderson and Molina's punch on Rodri—caught by Ornstein on camera ([05:00]–[05:40]).
  • A member of Argentina’s backroom staff striking Dani Olmo ([05:40], David Ornstein).

• Lionel Messi’s emotional state:

  • Messi was “completely overcome by emotion... probably borderline in tears” as he faced the fans ([06:45], Adam Leventhal).
  • His attempt to get Kukureya sent off viewed as “like a kind of toddler in a classroom” ([07:39], Leventhal).
  • “He was probably the one that… at full time, just sort of stepped back, really.” ([06:45], Adam Leventhal).

2. England’s Regret and the Tournament’s Narrative

• England’s missed opportunity:
  • Ornstein: “I found yesterday incredibly frustrating from an English perspective. I’m not sure England would have got much closer to Spain than Argentina did.” ([10:50], David Ornstein)
  • Agreement that England should have beaten Argentina in the semi: “It was just a major missed opportunity. They screwed up royally in that second half and that will be a regret that lives with them.” ([11:02], Ornstein)
  • Critique of overemphasis on “DNA” debates; both agree Argentina were not, on merit, a second-best team ([12:28], Adam Leventhal; [13:09], Ornstein).

3. Spain’s Triumph and Systemic Success

• Praise for Spain:

  • Spain described as “brilliant and methodical and surgical and logical… they kind of run cold as Argentina are running hot, and they’re just a really, really good team.” ([18:07], Adam Leventhal)
  • Rodri named head and shoulders player of the tournament.
    • Quote: “It’s almost like we’re all living in Rodri’s world.” ([20:25], David Ornstein)
  • Spain’s strength is collective over star-driven: “Death by a thousand cuts.” ([20:25], Ornstein)
  • Youth and system vindicated — echoed by both panelists.
  • Spain now holds men’s and women’s world titles concurrently.

• Observations about Spain’s style:

  • Absence of a traditional top striker, reliance on midfield and defense.
  • The tournament win seen as decades-long investment in infrastructure and development paying off ([23:24], Ornstein).

• Speculation about Spain’s future dominance:

  • Leventhal points out Spain’s young squad means they’re set for another cycle, but notes the unpredictability of back-to-back World Cups ([24:30]).

4. The Spectacle: Halftime Show, Stadium, and Politics

• Halftime and off-pitch moments:

  • Mixed reviews for the Americanized halftime show—Madonna, Bieber, Shakira, and Coldplay influences, described as disjointed ([26:31]-[28:13]).
    • Memorable quip: “I kind of wanted her [Madonna] to go the full way and just drive onto the field.” ([27:03], Leventhal)
  • Noted “million dollar seats” along pitchside, blocked by pitch-side photographers ([29:53], Adam Leventhal).

• Disruption of the game:

  • Concerns about football’s flow due to long halftime and “hydration breaks.” ([30:58], David Ornstein)
    • “I just feel like I’ve not seen very much football for the past hour.” ([31:22], Leventhal)

• Political presence:

  • Donald Trump’s presence at the Final:
    • Noted booing in the stadium even from behind glass ([31:58], Leventhal).
    • Drama around his attempted photobomb of the trophy lift.

• Charity efforts:

  • Discussion of FIFA and Global Citizen’s fundraising efforts—a $100M target not yet reached; notable advisory board names include Kaka, Shakira, and Ivanka Trump ([28:31]).

5. Ornstein's Summer Transfer Updates

• Rodri's Man City future:

  • City eager to renew; Rodri considering future, potentially courted by Real Madrid ([34:52]–[35:31], Ornstein).
  • “The power's in Rodri's hands now and it's at a critical juncture of his career.” ([35:31], Ornstein)

• Biggest transfer boosts from the World Cup:

  • Senior players: Manu Koné (Roma/France), attracting multiple PL clubs, esp. Man United ([37:58]-[38:37]).
  • Younger talents:
    • Gilmora (Mexico, age 16), represented by Rafaela Pimenta; interest from PL sides.
    • Ibrahim Ba Mbe (PSG/France), strong performances but uncertain future at PSG ([39:30]-[40:16]).
    • Diamonde (RB Leipzig/PSG interest): negotiation ongoing.
    • Suzuki (Japan GK), linked to Aston Villa.
  • Notable mention:
    • Martinez (Aston Villa/Argentina GK) praised as “brilliant… you can't get much better than him right now.” ([41:20], Ornstein)

• Arsenal’s ambitions:

  • Expectation of major signings to “take the team up to the next level,” spanning midfielder, left-sided/wide forward, and center-forward, with Julian Alvarez cited as "the apple of their eye" ([41:32]–[43:24]).

• Barcola (PSG):

  • Liverpool and Arsenal both keen; PSG reluctant to sell, high valuation ([43:24], Ornstein).

• Folarin Balogun (Monaco):

  • Significant Premier League and European interest; transfer expected, valuation in €50m range ([44:25], Ornstein).

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Most Notable Quotes

• On Argentina’s conduct:

  • “That brutality is a theme of their tournament… But the conduct at full time with Molina punching Rodri in the stomach… was disgraceful.” — David Ornstein [04:31-05:40]

• On Messi:

  • “Messi just looked spaced out… He was probably the one that, at full time, just sort of stepped back, really.” — Adam Leventhal [06:39–06:45]

• On Rodri:

  • “It's almost like we're all living in Rodri's world. He was playing on a different sort of sphere.” — David Ornstein [20:25]

• On Spain’s football culture:

  • “This is the absolute sort of vindication of a system on the men's side, the women's side… the repercussion of investment in facilities, in coaching and methodology.” — David Ornstein [23:24]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:01] - Reflections on Argentina’s collapse and behaviour
• [03:12] - Discussion of Argentina's turning their backs during trophy ceremony
• [04:31] - Brutality as a tournament theme; specific incidents cited
• [06:39-07:25] - Messi’s reactions and incident with Kukureya
• [10:50-12:28] - England’s missed opportunity and DNA debate
• [18:07-20:25] - Analysis of Spain’s style, efficiency, and Rodri praise
• [23:24] - Spain’s footballing infrastructure and dual men’s/women’s success
• [26:31-30:57] - Halftime spectacle, Americanization, and disruption of match rhythm
• [31:58-32:43] - Donald Trump’s presence and trophy-lift drama
• [34:33–44:25] - Summer transfer deep-dive: Rodri, Koné, young prospects, and Arsenal’s (plus Liverpool/PSG) market updates

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Final Thoughts

This episode delivers a comprehensive football post-mortem: the rawness of Argentina’s disappointment, the ice-cool mastery of Spain’s new world champions, and the realities—sporting and commercial—awaiting Europe’s big clubs. There’s pointed critique (Argentina’s conduct, FIFA’s spectacle), heartfelt football nerdery (Rodri fever, Spanish youth system), and a fast-and-furious transfer hotline courtesy of Ornstein. Essential listening (or reading) for fans craving context, analysis, and the first taste of the season ahead.

Transcript

[Adam Leventhal]

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

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[David Ornstein]

The Athletic fc.

[David Crafton]

So that's it. The World cup is over and it ended with pain for Messi, disgrace for Argentina, but a second star for Spain. And that will do it. Spain's Operation Second Star is complete. Viva Espana. Campiones del Mundo. Again, welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Adam Leventhal, live from New York. And we're live for one final time here at Acar Studios in New York. We're going to be reflecting on the final, of course, and all that that entailed the good, the bad and the ugly. But we are looking forward as well because there's only one month to go until the start of the Premier League season, everyone. No rest for the wicked. Woohoo. And indeed, we are going to answer your transfer questions because David Ornstein is back once again. So send them in. Adam Crafton is here as well. It'd be great on the live stream if you send in your abiding memories of this World cup and we'll go through them in addition to your questions. I'm not going to start with Spain. We'll give them the, the floor shortly and give them all the credit that they deserve. But let's start with Argentina and after all the glory of four years ago, the amazing final in, in Qatar and all that, they leave the tournament having disgraced themselves in that final. Adam.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, by the end it was pretty, they were pretty diminished as a team. They didn't play well. That's the main thing, you know, I mean, they've played a lot better at times in the tournament or they've had like these periods of games where they start to sort of get going and then they kind of go into Overdrive and that. They just couldn't do that at all. I mean, they barely had a shot in the entire game. The obvious person, Messi, didn't really show up. He was a passenger in that game. And then once you get a red card against a team that keeps the ball like Spain, it becomes really difficult. But also, you know, by the end, you know, you lose the World cup and you turn your backs when Spain are lifting the trophy. It was all pretty, pretty bleak, you know, from, from that perspective from Argentina

[David Crafton]

and for people watching on the tv, that wouldn't necessarily have been picked up. You could pick that up in the, in the stadium, quite clearly. Could you?

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, in the stadium. I don't know how intentional it was because what happened was you had the Spain players going up to the podium one by one, and the Argentina fans, well, they're everywhere in the stadium, but particularly behind that goal. And you have the Argentine players kind of going over to the fans, but just looks pretty rude by the end because the Argentina players continue to just have that, all of them. So when it's all of them, rather than just sort of one or two, it starts to look quite deliberate. And, you know, there was a couple of moments, you know, Rodri goes up to get the golden ball and the Argentina fans are singing Messi's name over that. They're bowing down to him. And look, I get it, he's like a God. He's like a God there. But this was also, you know, it was Spain's moment. And Spain had given Argentina a guard of honor. And when they went up to get their losers, medals, runners up, medals. So you thought at that point maybe it would kind of be reciprocated.

[David Crafton]

And the temperament, as much as the football, left a bitter taste, didn't it? Especially right at the end with the scraps. And also, to be brutally honest, the way that they did try and leave a foot in here and there, as we'd seen against England once again.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah, you used the word brutally. I think that brutality is a theme of their tournament, actually, which is in stark contrast to what we saw in Qatar 2022, where they weren't perfect, they lost to Saudi Arabia, but they grew into the tournament by playing football. And that's how they won it in absolutely spectacular style. In fact, they earned plaudits against England. We were there too, for playing football to beat them. It was the brutality, the, the butcher like behavior that was so sort of controversial before that. And we said at the time, it's not being wise after the event, Enzo Fernandez absolutely should have been sent off against England. He punched Elliot Anderson in the head. I don't quite understand how that hasn't been a bigger talking point in the final. I turned to Adam and said, oh, they're not going for brutality today. And Adam said it's because they can't get near to Spain. When they could, they did, as we saw, with a couple of dicey challenges. Alexis McAllister, most notably. I thought the conduct at full time with Molina punching Rodri in the stomach. We don't know if Rodri had said something, but irrespective was disgraceful. I had it on my camera. I zoomed in and filmed one of the backroom staff of Argentina, which people have now seen online, striking Dani Olmo to the face. And I think we've all seen the images afterwards. Just quickly on the crowd and the players. They were mingling together before the trophy lift. So that suggested to me that there was no real animosity between the two.

[David Crafton]

It's simmered down, isn't it?

[David Ornstein]

Well, no, there was some teammates, Atletico Madrid, for example. But even if that wasn't purposeful turning their backs, like, read the room, it's classless. They would have, because it was all in unison. There was not one person facing Spain, so maybe it was reverence to their supporters, but it would take an idiot not to know what was going on behind them.

[David Crafton]

And it was also following the lead of. Of Lionel Messi as well, who was very much focused on looking at the crowd, savoring the moment.

[Adam Leventhal]

To be fair, with Messi, I just thought Messi looked spaced out.

[David Crafton]

He was completely overcome by emotion. Yeah.

[Adam Leventhal]

I mean, and actually, he was probably the one that, at full time, just sort of stepped back, really, from it all. Kind of everyone. Everyone else was getting involved and. And he just kind of locked on. And then by the end, there was a point where it's very hard in MetLife to actually sort of see people's faces, but it came up on the screen and he was kind of visibly emotional, probably borderline in tears, which you could understand. And he does have this. I mean, he does have this incredible connection with the fans. So I think of all of them, he seemed to sort of be the kind of the least antagonistic, except for that quite ridiculous moment with Kukureya during the game.

[David Crafton]

For people who don't know, he tried to get Kukurea sent off by grassing him up by saying that he'd slightly covered his mouth. And it was all. It was all pretty Low end, to be honest.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah. But it was like a kind of toddler.

[David Crafton]

Yeah.

[Adam Leventhal]

In a classroom, calling up their teacher.

[David Crafton]

Yeah.

[Adam Leventhal]

Being like, Ms. Mark said something to me. Can you deal with this, please? Can we send him to detention? That's what it felt like.

[David Ornstein]

But these tactics have been part of Argentina's very well defined sort of game plan and psyche and, and lots of other countries. Yeah, true. And, and if it's effective and if it provides you with the advantage, I think you need to understand and we don't fully this almost religious like connection between Argentina, the World cup trophy, the supporters, the nation, Messi, the tears is quite remarkable. Enzo Fernandez was just as culpable in that incident. Cucurella is meant to be his friend from Chelsea. The two rebels from Chelsea last season who, who have a connection. And he was trying just as he

[David Crafton]

joined in as well. But to be fair to him, Enzo Fernandez did, on the guard of honor, he did give Cucurea a cuddle as he was going through.

[David Ornstein]

So it seemed as if pantomime all of this.

[David Crafton]

But I just wanted to go back to Messi, if I may, because obviously there's nothing official yet. It's, you know, the magnitude of him officially announcing his retirement from. From football hasn't. Hasn't arrived officially. Everything's been pointing in that direction, but in, you know, if you ignore the, the nature of Argentina's performance. It was really sad seeing him cry and feel that emotion. It was very. The, the. The camera was right in his face and there was, you know, he was, he was bawling his eyes out.

[Adam Leventhal]

You sound like Evita, but you mean international football.

[David Crafton]

Yes, exactly, exactly.

[Adam Leventhal]

Otherwise, MLS will be very concerned by the caveat, by what you've just said. It was full time. Literally on the final whistle, you saw and never really noticed this as strikingly as in this moment. But Messi kind of stood back and there was maybe three or four photographers or camera guys right up, you know, kind of against him because obviously he was the one that you want to capture. But it was almost like he was letting them kind of have that moment. Sometimes in that moment you'll see people walk around or make the shot more difficult to capture. And I've never really sort of seen him kind of really not crave that moment, but be receptive to kind of being so visible at that precise moment.

[David Crafton]

I know exactly what you mean, because it almost felt as if whatever happens, Lionel, at the end of the game, you're gonna have a massive camera in your face. And he seemed accepting of it. I agree.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah. Maybe he's just really used to that. Yeah. After 20 years. But it seemed to me like that would be quite annoying. I'm just thinking, I mean, just to equalize Messi and Ronaldo for people who are upset by it, I guess it goes back to the Cucurea thing. It's a bit like Ronaldo's wink at the referee with rooney, you know, 2006, 20 years ago. So everything comes full circle. Yes. With, with those two guys.

[David Crafton]

Through an England lens.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah.

[David Crafton]

I don't think that the way that Argentina were, were comfortably beaten. This is just my personal opinion. Particularly helps Thomas Tuchel's case, especially because England effectively ran scared from a side that were toyed with by Spain. What. What's your view on that?

[David Ornstein]

I found yesterday incredibly frustrating from an English perspective because I'm not sure England would have got much closer to Spain than Argentina did.

[David Crafton]

But they might have had a chance of playing them.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah, they should have got there. There's no doubt about it. And it's not for us to start apportioning blame. It was just a major missed opportunity. They screwed up royally in that second half and that will be a regret that lives with them. And it's not easy. Argentina played really well. When they sort of dropped their physical tactics against England in Atlanta with the two center halves on a booking, I thought they played excellent football. Helped by England, maybe it pushed England into a bit of everything, but really, England should have got to that final. And you know, when you reflect on the statistics of, of Argentina's performance, it was, yeah, it won't sit well with, with England and, and they may not, you know, you don't know what the future holds. But saying they may not get a better opportunity than that, it was within the, the grasp of their, their fingers. And yeah, I think when there was criticism of England's DNA post Argentina, I'm starting to think that wasn't really where the blame should be apportioned. Like, where's the criticism for Argentina's DNA? Because they, their performance against Spain was probably inferior to what England would produce. I would, I would suggest if you look at England's weapons of a cane at Bellingham, your sackers, Rashford, Gordon's, but

[Adam Leventhal]

that's what, so that's what makes me think Argentina actually overperformed in the tournament.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah.

[Adam Leventhal]

You know, I think to get to the final, I don't think they were a final team.

[David Crafton]

No.

[Adam Leventhal]

You know, you look at their team yesterday and they have injury prone and erratic center backs, you know, Lisandro Martinez went off injured and he, just before halftime, I think he was bucked again. The midfielders are, they're pretty limited players, you know, who work hard and put a foot in. Maybe that's a bit unfair on Enzo, but they're also rash players that, you know, get themselves in trouble. They don't really have a winger in the entire squad, but they have a great goalkeeper and they have a great, and they have two great forwards and that's kind of how they rode it out during the tournament. But I don't think they were the second best team.

[David Ornstein]

Well, they were the team that relied Most on the 2022 intake than any other country. And it's very clear that they rely on the power of the collective and, and this divine inspiration and rite of passage that they're continually on. And I, I think that, I mean, both finalists were not so much based on the individual. I know with, with Messi, but the way they got to the final was the power of the group and they should have really succumbed to, to Cape Verde, which would have been probably the biggest upset in World cup history. Egypt had them and should have seen it out and Switzerland too, before the sending off. So this had been coming to them. And, but just back to that point, I don't think there is a problem with England's DNA to the extent that obviously Thomas Tuchel's comments have, have led to England should be a competent football team and, and I think they would have given Spain a bigger run for their money yesterday than Argentina did. I just think the nature of Wednesday's collapse in isolation deserves a study because I have no idea what happened there.

[David Crafton]

Yeah, it certainly deserves far more scrutiny than just saying, no, everything's fine, we're going to crack on, we're the same guy. Okay, fair enough.

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[Adam Leventhal]

ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Brooke Devard]

Hello, hello, it's Brooke Devard from Naked Beauty. Join me each week for unfiltered discussion about beauty trends, self care journeys, wellness tips, and the products we absolutely love and cannot get enough of. If you are a skincare obsessive and you spend 20 plus minutes on your skincare routine, this podcast is for you. Or if you're a newbie at the beginning of your skincare journey, you'll love this podcast as well. Because we go so much deeper than beauty. I talk to incredible and inspiring people from across industries about their relationship with beauty. You'll also hear from skincare experts. We break down lots of myths in the beauty industry. If this sounds like your thing, search for Naked Beauty on your podcast app and listen along. I hope you'll join us.

[David Crafton]

Let's move on. We also wait to see what's going to happen with FIFA, whether they're going to punish Argentina for the Las Malvinas banner as well.

[Adam Leventhal]

We'll see. Also, for everything that happened at the final whistle, I mean, we'll not mention Paredes, who is like the villain in chief. The villain in chief that just sort of comes on every time he makes a foul. I love these players that kind of. They make the most obvious foul, the referee blows their whistle, and it's like, it's like they have no idea why the whistle's been blown after they've just kicked someone. Enzo Fernandez as well, after his second yellow, wagging his finger.

[David Ornstein]

And at extraordinary at the same time as Enzo's second yellow card, an Argentina player went down about 20 meters away, writhing in agony. Which made a lot of us think, oh, what's the incident over there?

[David Crafton]

And to be honest, Spain probably should have won the game earlier on because I didn't see why there wasn't. Why there was a foul given on Otamendi. I didn't see that. But we don't need to go into that. They won in the end. And, Adam, well done. You predicted a 10 win.

[Adam Leventhal]

Did I predict a 1 nil win?

[David Crafton]

You predicted a 10 win. Narrow win, you said yesterday. And it felt just, obviously, in England, it felt like a hugely popular win for Spain. And that Football. Football won.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, yeah, there's a bit. I mean, there's a bit of that. I just think Spain were the better team. I mean, I don't. I actually quite enjoy sometimes watching these teams that kind of push the boundaries and have an edge. I think if every team played like Spain, it'd be pretty boring, to be honest. And in some ways, it's a bit of relief that we've only really had to start talking about the Spanish team kind of right at the end, because there isn't a huge amount to talk about. They're kind of brilliant and methodical and surgical and logical and kind of. They run cold. That. They kind of run cold as Argentina are running hot, and they're just a really, really good team. But there's only so many times you can say Rodri's fantastic, right? And he was. And he had this period when he won the Ballon d' or where if you were at a game he was playing at, he looked bigger, wider, faster, stronger than anyone else on the field, and he kind of did it all without sweating. And that's what it looked like yesterday. It was like.

[David Crafton]

Well, I think Pep Guardiola predicted it, didn't he, that he said that you're going to see the best Rodri at the World Cup.

[Adam Leventhal]

Did he?

[David Crafton]

So, I mean, Pep knows, obviously, but obviously it's taken time for him to get back to his levels, and it was great that he peaked.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah. And the only thing Spain kind of miss is just that top striker, you know, that top striker or wide four or wide forward that really hits the moment. I mean, I thought your man again was good, but again, didn't have that kind of definitive moment, per se. So I think that's why people haven't spoken about them as much, because there's just not. You're kind of, as a journalist, you're always looking at the moment or the character. And this Spain team have kind of had that character in Yamau and Rodri, but maybe not quite in the way of other nations, but they are by far, at the same time, the best team. And it's a reminder that World Cups are often won by the best defence and midfield, whereas we're always talking about forwards.

[David Crafton]

Yeah, yeah, but it was. And it's symbolic then that, you know, Ferran Torres came in a collective player, obviously. He's a. He's a star name. He plays for Barcelona, he's been scoring goals, you know, last season. Obviously familiar to Manchester City fans as well. But it was sort of on trend for him to score rather than it being, you know, Yamal with the free kick right at the end.

[David Ornstein]

I'm really.

[Adam Leventhal]

Free kick it.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah. I'm really pleased we're putting some respect on Spain's name for this performance and not just talking about Argentina. Yeah. Torres has had a bit of a taurid tournament in terms of the reaction in Spain and on social media to missed opportunities and especially in the first game where they drew. But, you know, he's. He's a top quality player. I mean, you know, where's Alvaro Morata or Diego Costa when you need them? But Spain and Spanish football doesn't rely on this center forward because obviously they play false nines. At Barcelona in particular, a lot of Barcelona influence and Pep Guardiola on this Spanish team and many of the players playing within it we've talked about in this tournament. Spain's like death by a thousand cuts. They were always going to win. You could see it from the start of the. Unless something freak had happened and Argentina rose up again in an inordinate way, but the chances were coming. You said in the stadium the goal was coming. I thought towards the end of normal time and certainly in extra time. The substitutions by De la Fuente were really good, really positive and proactive. No fear against what Messi and Argentina might do. He was the protagonist. So, you know, I thought Nico Williams was excellent when he came on Torres himself and. And he. And he kept players like Lamine on, so the threat was coming from all areas. And you could see it was like a boxer on the ropes. It was just when the referee calls time on it. And I totally agree with Adam. There was something like superhuman about Rodri's stature on the pitch. Like, even when you looked at Emi Martinez and. And Unai Simon, it was still Rodri who seemed to tower like the Statue of Liberty or something. It was. It was really noticeable. And also how calm and composed he was on the ball. He. He would know when to make the move into the space to form a triangle to play it on. And there were A number of sequences where Rodri was the conductor, the quarterback. It's almost like we're all living in Rodri's world. He was playing on a different sort of sphere. Then it starts to add up in our heads how Real Madrid, or certainly the presidential candidate that lost out to Florentino Perez desperately wanted him as the marquee signing. A few people like, well, Rodri after the acl. And he's a defensive midfielder. Absolutely. He's the one that makes Manchester City tick and. And clearly now Spain. I thought he was the best player on the pitch by a mile. When I said to Adam about who's going to get the player of the tournament, we wondered Faron Torres, because FIFA often give it to the winning goal scorer. But. But the player of the tournament. Rodri, head and shoulders. But all across that team. And I know it was a point. Thierry on remade on broadcast earlier in the competition. They've been taught this way since the age of seven. And so even if players come in and, you know, people like Fabian Reese don't get enough credit, Danny Olmo on the global stage aren't appreciated as much as they should be.

[David Crafton]

But there's also that great rotation as well, which is very accepting that they have of. Right. I've done my time. Olmo commonly sort of replaced and just gets on with it.

[David Ornstein]

You're thinking, no issues. And bayerna's been one of their best players. And when he comes off and I thought he was still on when Ferran Torres with his longer hair was doing exactly the same job, I just want to say it's a point many people know, but for our audiences, this is the absolute sort of vindication of a system on the men's side, the women's side, I think first ever men's and women's world champions at the same time, youth level, we've seen Spain on the men's side smashing it at European level. Even though this is only their second Men's World cup. This is what is the repercussion of investment in facilities, in coaching and methodology and dedicating yourself to a setup that is designed to produce footballers and coaches and executives, by the way, and to win. And now we're seeing it spectacularly.

[David Crafton]

On that note that, you know, they've won back to back tournaments just as they did before back in 2008 and 10. Let's look ahead. The next Euros and then a home World cup with 15 other countries. Would you bet against them winning both of those tournaments?

[Adam Leventhal]

I think it's hard. I think it's hard to, we don't often see, you know, teams go back to back World cup, but they are quite a young team. I would say there's a lot of young players in that.

[David Crafton]

The average age is like 26. It's probably pretty on, on on average with everyone else.

[Wells Fargo Ad Voice]

So.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, yeah. I think obviously Rodri by then will be. Yes, would be quite a lot older and he's so key. But you would back them to produce. You know, you never thought there'd be another Busquets and then Rodri comes along. Yeah, I mean you wouldn't be shocked. You know, I think England would have to view home Euros as a, as a big opportunity in 2028. I think they would have to view that that way. France, obviously, it's very, very hard to back against them. 20, 30, it's, it's a difficult one, right, because it's like split between South America and Morocco. Spain, Portugal. But you know, with what they continue to produce now over 15, well more, almost a 20 year period, consistently producing world class players. You know, you'd have to always have them in your top three to four. I'm not sure that many people actually at the start of this tournament was saying Spain. No, it felt like a lot more people. I, I wasn't, I think France, wasn't it? Everybody, I mean everyone was saying France, but I think as well, France, Argentina, maybe Brazil with Ancelotti, maybe Tucl take England over the line. Oh, we've not seen Germany do much for a while. Could they be something. Portugal with Ronaldo, but Spain were just sort of sat in the pack under

[David Ornstein]

the radar, quite unassuming. And even when you look at their lineup for the final, many would say, take Argentina today. Emerick Laporte at centre back.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah. But the other centre, Kubasi, what a player.

[David Crafton]

He's the player. I love Kubasi.

[Adam Leventhal]

19.

[David Crafton]

Yeah, I love him. We've done the football side of things. I want to know about the occasion. You were both in the stadium, your verdicts, both on the halftime show and some of the other peripheral things. Tom Cruise's inspiring speech before the game and all that. What were your highlights?

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, it was hard. It's hard when you're at a World cup final. It was, it was hard because in the press boxes in American stadiums, you're behind glass. Yes. So you can't hear very much. And I think for most of the first couple of minutes we were all like, where is she? Where is Madonna?

[David Crafton]

I don't know if this has been confirmed. We may have done a behind the scenes piece on the Athletic. If we haven't done already, then we may well do. But it appeared as if this initial bit had been sort of prerecorded in some way. And then she emerged with Ronaldinho and Ronaldo either side of it. It was a bit odd, but I

[Adam Leventhal]

kind of wanted her to go the full. The full way and just drive onto the field. I was like, if they're gonna do it, just do it right. And obviously that wouldn't have been good for the pitch at all. I didn't love the, like, the save the world bed sheet that Chris Martin kind of curated. It was very Coldplay. It was. The whole thing. The whole thing was very Coldplay. I thought Bieber kind of brought the vibe down. It was like a bit slow, a bit acoustic, a bit kind of like, why are you doing an acoustic set on a halftime show? That was a bit strange. Madonna, I thought, kind of was the best of it. That bit, you know, it was funny with Shakira.

[David Ornstein]

Shakira.

[Adam Leventhal]

Shakira. I was like, it's like a safe pair of hands. It's like one of our.

[David Ornstein]

This is such a good critique. Can we just clip this up as the show.

[Adam Leventhal]

One of our colleagues last night, hopefully he'll forgive me for saying. James Hallcastle described Shakira as the female Azteca, as in, she is World cup heritage. Right. And in the same way as the Azteca is heritage in the World cup. And she, you know, she was good. I didn't love, like the kids bit, you know, where they were all like coming on, like a few of them fell over.

[David Crafton]

It was all very wholesome. And that's what I mean.

[Adam Leventhal]

It was a bit.

[David Crafton]

Yeah. But I think. I'm not sure if I discussed it with you or someone else, but there's a. A large amount of money being given to various different charities as a result of. As a result of the final. So they. So FIFA will be able to spin it.

[Adam Leventhal]

Some details on that. All right.

[David Crafton]

Okay, thank you.

[Adam Leventhal]

So there is. The charity is called Global Citizen. The target before the final for many, many months that was put out was $100 million would be raised. As of yesterday, it was around just over 60 million, which, you know, contain. FIFA are claiming they'll make 15 billion.

[David Crafton]

Yeah, they are dripping in cash.

[Adam Leventhal]

Dripping in cash. You'd think they'd have sort of topped that up by now. And then last week you had this Global Citizen CEO kind of calling on national governments of European countries to kind of top up the fund. But you've had other people donate. FOX have given, I think a million. Bank of America, MetLife foundation, but a little bit. But interestingly, the advisory board, by the way, is an amazing thing of this, the non fiduciary advisory board. You have caca, who I often think of as my non fiduciary advisory board guy. Shakira, the guy from bank of America, Ivanka Trump is on the board. But I was told by Global Citizen last week that as of yet, the US Federal government hasn't put money into the fund. So maybe the Global Citizen CEO can make that phone call.

[David Crafton]

Well, and on the topic of maybe a slight sort of disconnection between reality and FIFA, a million dollar seats for the final.

[Adam Leventhal]

Did you see these? The sofas?

[David Crafton]

Yes. And that they were in the sun, so they needed sun hats. Is that right?

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, there was like little sofas by the field that were being sold. Did you see these? Yeah, it's incredible. Little sofas and people with kind of straw hats. If I'd paid a million dollars, but then in front of them they had a photographer number. I think it was number 1210. Photographer. Imagine paying a million dollars then having to ask, Mr. 1210, could you just move out of the way to watch the game? But the show as a whole, I thought they should have just gone harder in the sense of if you're gonna be this disruptive, just commit to one or two brilliant acts and let them do a show. In the way that you.

[David Ornstein]

Super Bowl.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, in the way that you do for the Super Bowl. If you're gonna take 27 minutes.

[David Ornstein]

It was snippet, wasn't it? Like Madonna, oh, she's gonna come on and play now. And that was the end of her. Say goodbye. And the super bowl would prioritize one act that everyone would be talking about for the quality of performance. And furthermore the disruption with the. What are they called? Refreshment breaks.

[David Crafton]

Hydration breaks.

[David Ornstein]

Hydration breaks. And this we forget so quick. I think it. And sorry to bring the tone down. Cause that was absolutely inspiring that we're just seeing so little football now. There's no flow. There's. And I'm not making a point that others haven't, but so two hydration breaks, various other stoppages now massive half time. It's like in a match where two teams, you would love to have tried to see the flow.

[Adam Leventhal]

The second half definitely felt quite, quite weird because you had this 27 minute break and then obviously you have about 20 minutes of football and then you've got another Break. During that break, I just remember saying, I think to David and James, I was like, I just feel like I've not seen very much football for the past hour. A football match.

[David Crafton]

Yep. Yeah.

[Adam Leventhal]

Which was the case.

[David Ornstein]

That's why we're talking more about shows

[David Crafton]

just finally on this element of it, because we're going to be talking transfers in a minute. Thank you very much for sending in all of your questions. We will get to them with David. We will rat a tat tat through them. Donald Trump booed on his way in. Was that all very audible when you were in the stadium?

[Adam Leventhal]

I have to say it was pretty audible, even behind the glass. I mean, to be fair, he was walking out with Gianni.

[David Crafton]

So it could have been.

[Adam Leventhal]

Who knows? Yeah, could have been. Either there's a lot of people on the field at that point. Could have been anyone.

[David Crafton]

Could have been directed at. Maybe that photographer, maybe it was us, maybe it was you. And he did his best to ruin the photo and the trophy lift, but I think Janny just managed to usher him away just in time that he might be able to be cropped out. There you go. We're showing on YouTube at the moment the picture. And there's Donald Trump just to the right hand side. But thankfully, Spain had their moment. But it was a sort of preoccupation of mine to just go, is he gonna ruin it? Is he gonna ruin it? Oh, I think we might have just got away with it.

[Adam Leventhal]

But there was an amazing moment where it looked like he was gonna stay in the shot.

[David Ornstein]

Yes.

[Adam Leventhal]

And kind of you can see Rodri in the politest possible way to the most powerful man in the world being a bit like, come on, off you go. And then Gianni kind of scurrying across the stage in those white trainers, those FIFA white trainers. And I wasn't sure whether that was because Gianni couldn't allow a possible shot of Trump to take place without him being in it, or whether he was actually trying to move him away from center stage. But I actually didn't think it was as intrusive as kind of last year. And I thought kind of from that perspective, it kind of passed by pretty well. And it was also nice that they had the Canadian Prime Minister and the Mexican as well.

[David Crafton]

Yeah, yeah. And that was good. And it all seemed to be a good sort of parade when people were collecting their awards and all that sort of stuff. And there will be plenty more follow up to the World cup and all that it means. On the Athletic, Tim Spears has done a review as you would expect on the halftime show and things like that. But there'll be lots more to follow up from the World Cup.

[Lauren Dragan]

Hey, it's Lauren Dragan from Wirecutter, the product recommendation service from the New York Times. And I test headphones. We basically make our own fake sweat and spray it over and over on these headphones to see what happens to them over time. We're gonna put on some noise canceling headphones and see how well they actually block out the sound. I have 3,136 entries in my database kids work out with. At Wirecutter, we do the work so you don't have to. For independent product reviews and recommendations for the real world, come Visit [e-mail] Wirecutter.

[David Crafton]

David, are you ready to get into some transfer questions?

[David Ornstein]

Bring it on.

[David Crafton]

Plenty have been sent in. Just to follow up on what you were saying about Rodri. The situation is that Manchester City would. Would like him to sign a new contract. Has there been any sort of movement on that? Do you think anything is going to change or do we see him solidifying his position at Manchester City next year?

[David Ornstein]

They absolutely want to renew his contract. They've been trying and I suspect they'll continue to. He's into his last 12 months at the Etihad and so that's really important for them. The previous, sorry, the candidate that was rivaling Florentino Perez for the Real Madrid presidency had made Rodri a priority, and it seemed that they would give a really good go at that if he had got in. He didn't do Real Madrid, continue that pursuit with. With the Florentino Perez regime. I mean, after a performance like that, I suspect we will hear a lot more about Rodri and Real Madrid and other clubs, and rightly so.

[Adam Leventhal]

Do you think he wants to stay?

[David Ornstein]

Well, the sort of murmurings I get from the industry is that his direction of travel had been to leave. That was sort of what I was hearing earlier in the tournament and prior to the competition. When you put questions on that to City, they were very clear that that's not our information and we're not going to sit down with him until after the tournament and try and sort it out. So it wouldn't surprise me. If City get a renewal, they will absolutely push hard for it. But the power's in Rodri's hands now and it's at a critical juncture of his career.

[David Crafton]

Okay, let's get through some of these questions. This is quite a broad one for David. Which handful of players from the World cup will be getting the biggest transfer boost. What are the ones that stick out for you that haven't already moved within the. Within the tournament? Because there have been, you know, big players like Anderson and Rogers, obviously.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah, I was going to say Manzambi. And yes, he got his move to Aston Villa.

[David Crafton]

Okay, well, what do you think, Adam? Do you think that there's anyone that sort of stuck out for you that has really changed the narrative on them themselves? I mean, obviously, we commonly guard against clubs signing on the strength of a World Cup.

[Adam Leventhal]

Sounds crazy, but I was kind of watching the World cup and this won't happen because he's clearly tied in with Inter Miami. But I was like, messi could do a job somewhere. It sounds crazy to say we've got

[David Crafton]

a contract till 28, hasn't it?

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, but I just kind of wonder if, you know, any European club might just ask the question, you know, he's just been so. He's looked so fit and so comfortable. I don't think this will happen, by the way, but I did wonder that a little bit. The one that's kind of generating some traction in the Spanish media and the French media has been Elise and Real Madrid. He's already a fantastic club in. In Bayern Munich. And as he leapt up, I mean, I don't know where he'd play for Madrid. I mean, when you've already got kind of Bellingham in that position, you've got Mbappe and Vinicius. I think that's possibly an interesting one, but I don't think there's been that many players that have kind of exploded, you know, in the latter stages, you know, in the group stages, I think we discovered some players, you know, Bouwadi, who you've obviously reported on, who Man City seem to be kind of following as well. But it's gonna be interesting in the next few weeks to see the players that kind of. Some of those Premier League clubs perhaps were looking at during the tournament and feel can kind of make that step up.

[David Ornstein]

They won't be signing players based on this tournament, but maybe some confirmation or sort of reiteration of what they already knew and expose at a really high level and pressurized environment. I think, on the more senior level, and we've mentioned him on here, I think Manukone did himself a world of good for France. Came into the side in a critical position, central midfield, and was impressive and is available from Roma for a reasonable price. In a position where you're seeing £100 million dropped in the Premier League more than Once already this summer.

[David Crafton]

So do you see multiple teams after him?

[David Ornstein]

Yeah, definitely, yeah.

[David Crafton]

I think because you mentioned Manchester United before sort of in the conversation.

[David Ornstein]

Exactly. They'll be looking at him and there will be others too because you that position is. Is being sought after at Aston Villa and elsewhere. So let's see how that. I mean Arsenal are looking at Bruno Guimaraes for that sort of 68 role but if Newcastle dig their heels in do they start to look for options like that that represent better value and less of a battle to get them out? If I'm to look at a couple of players maybe who are of the younger bracket from this tournament who we knew about and scouts and recruitment experts would have been across fully but sort of caught the eye I think Gilmora from Mexico and it's been quite well documented that he signed up with this so called super agent Rafaela Pimenta who formerly was working with Mino Raiola and they've obviously got a very strong track record.

[Adam Leventhal]

He was with her at a game.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah, he was with her at an England game I think in Miami and, and they. I mean he's a Nate. I think he's only 16 so he can't move yet but all sorts of pre contract conversations can be taking place. Certainly comes to the Premier League and then who was the other one? Is it Ibrahim Bay MBE, the PSG winger? Now he's really interesting because I thought his performance was of a much greater maturity than his tender age. I think he's 18 but I don't see where you get serious minutes at PSG given their attacking armory and like Barkala and Douay and Kavavarich Velia and so on. Maybe Diamonde and well it makes you

[Adam Leventhal]

wonder if Barcola may go.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah but will and Bay even get his chance then and, and does he want to be playing now? Because when you've played and started at a World Cup I, I think PSG are probably quite open to that possibility provided they get the right numbers and there'll be a lot of clubs in for in Bay in the Premier League and elsewhere and I guess round it off by mentioning somebody that just jogged my memory. Diamonde. No resolution to his situation yet. Whether that be leaving RB Leipzig for PSG where we revealed that it's his preference whether it materializes elsewhere because it's not closed or whether he stays at Leipzig for the time being because they don't want him to go. They'd love him to renew. Oliver Mintzlaff is one of the toughest negotiators in the industry. So yeah, there's, there's, there's a load of players. I thought the Japan goalkeeper Suzuki was excellent. Aston Villa were looking at him if Emmy Martinez was to depart. But I think it looks like Martinez will be staying. So. So Suzuki will go elsewhere from Palmer. And Martinez himself was brilliant, I thought in this tournament, despite his age, he

[Adam Leventhal]

was really good yesterday.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah. So when Juventus are making very small offers for him because of their financial position, you can understand why Villa rejecting them out of hand because you can't get much better than him right now.

[David Crafton]

Couple of quick ones.

[David Ornstein]

Still got time.

[David Crafton]

Okay. So very quickly.

[David Ornstein]

Got to go.

[David Crafton]

Will Arsenal. We touched upon this yesterday, But I mean 24 hours is a long time. Your, your phone is hot. James. Darren something there. Will Arsenal sign a top player as an alternative to Rodgers?

[David Ornstein]

Yeah, you'd imagine so.

[David Crafton]

Yeah.

[David Ornstein]

They're in that market for a really high level performer to take them on to the next level. And so, you know, we need to see what's going on with Julian Alvarez. That's obviously the dream target for Michael Arteta, the apple of their eye. He wanted to go to Barcelona. That path seems to be blocked by Atletico Madrid. The word from Madrid is that they're keeping him. And, and that's been said publicly. If there's any opening of a door, I'm sure Arsenal will try to walk through it and, and there'll be others. Barkal has been mentioned, but we don't know of sort of active movements from Arsenal and Barclay at this moment in time.

[David Crafton]

Lots of people asking Barclay to Liverpool as well.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, Barclay is a player.

[David Ornstein]

Liverpool really like we talked about that on here previously. And so I'm sure they'll be exploring the situation. But PSG's sort of standpoint, and we reported this on the Athletic too, was that they don't want to sell him. They, they would like to keep him, they'd like to renew him. Even if they are to sell him, the price in, in their mind would be higher considerably, I think than say Elliot Anderson moved from Nottingham Forest and Manchester City because this is a player who has won champions leagues, competed at the highest level level for club and country, scores goals, assists goals, you know, you've got to pay the market rate. He does have two years to go on contract. He doesn't appear to be signing. He appears to be open to moving. And so no doubt Liverpool and I'm sure others will be actively sort of exploring that. But it seems for, for multiple reasons. One that might take some time to Develop whether that be staying or going.

[Adam Leventhal]

I'd say on Arsenal I had a conversation maybe May with somebody who is incredibly well connected in European football who base said the talk of people he was speaking to is that Arsenal were ready to do some seriously sort of disruptive business this summer in terms of to take the team from where they were up to that next level. So I do think that money is there and it's just how they kind of plan to proceed and to use it. But you know, as David's reports, they want the central midfielder, they want that kind of left sided forward slash and they also probably want a center forward that can take them to that top level as well, which is why there's been so much talk about Alvarez and

[David Crafton]

I'm not linking this to it, but this is the last one. David Baligan. Now I was at an event in New York and he was speaking, he's spoken on a number of days at this fanatics thing. He's been signed up to LeBron James's agency. I think that's more on the entertainment side. Are you hearing anything on, on Baligan, David?

[David Ornstein]

There's a lot of interest in Baligan and we reported it pre tournament from the Premier League, from elsewhere in Europe, from Germany and he will only have enhanced his reputation. The transfer was expected this summer. Monaco are pretty open minded traders and I can't remember the exact figure that we put it in our piece. The sort of ballpark I think was about 50 million euros to which some people raised an eyebrow when our report came out and I don't think they probably are now. He's clearly shown since leaving Arsenal. So in France and different clubs there are now at international level he, he produces as a number nine, he's a

[Adam Leventhal]

goal scorer and look if your team's not doing well, you just make a phone call.

[David Ornstein]

Exactly. And that's the, the added benef. Donald, it's up to you.

[David Crafton]

It's over to you. I think we will end there. David and Adam, thank you very much for your contributions today. It's been a great pleasure to all the guests that have joined us throughout the tournament back in the UK here in the us To Emma Payton for hosting the show as well alongside me. Also to the production team behind the scenes working on the show. Jay, Liam, Mike, Adie, Guy, Adam, Jack Grayson, miles from the team here at Acast. All of the people that have hosted us have been great hosts and above all that a huge thank you to you for watching, for listening as well across the tournament tomorrow we do have a special show looking at how Major League Soccer, MLS can capitalise on the success of this World Cup. So that is coming up tomorrow. But as far as a live production during this World cup, we are done. Thank you very much. Take care.