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- [00:01]
Sponsor Voice
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [01:37]
Ayo Akimwalere
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere. Tottenham Hotspur have made Andoni Iraiola their top target if they decide to make a managerial change. Having taken his side to the last eight of the FA cup and with a European finish still possible in the Premier League, what more can Iriola do at Bournemouth? So here with us today we have our football data writer, Tom Harris. We've also got Jack Pitt, Brook, and also Phil Hay, the lead writer for the Athletic FC newsletters with us as well. Like Tom, you were at the match that Bournemouth ended up losing to Manchester City in the FA Cup. First and foremost, great run for Bournemouth. But what did you think of the match in general?
- [02:22]
Lonzo Ball
Yeah, I thought it was a really hard fought game. I thought City showed a lot of character to wrestle it back into their favor after quite hectic opening 45 minutes. I think Bournemouth's game plan worked really well in that first half. Put them under a lot of pressure in the build up and kind of made it really uncomfortable for City. But in that second half, I think the energy from Bournemouth just kind of tapered off a little bit and to be honest, it's becoming a bit of a recurring theme. I was at the vitality two weeks ago as well for the game against Brentford. They went up one nil and then they kind of fizzled out slightly in the second half and lost that game. Two, one. And yeah, just looking at the numbers more generally, since Iriola arrived at Bournemouth at the start of last season, only three teams have a worse win rate in games in which they've taken the lead. So that kind of suggests that they do have issues pulling away, controlling games when they're out in front and kind of finding that second goal, which they could have done with, you know, in the second half. And yeah, it is interesting, you know, to look at whether the play style perhaps plays a hand in that because they expended a lot of energy in that aggressive start yesterday. They made it really uncomfortable, as we said. But you know, obviously it kind of takes a physical and a mental toll as well, because the play style, you know, you've only got to look at someone like Ryan Christie, the midfielder. He is all over the place. He's kind of ordering his, his teammates to, to take up other position. A lot of mental kind of energy. And yeah, a team like City who can put those long possessions together, they can kind of take the sting out of a game and start to control things. And I think that's what we saw yesterday.
- [03:47]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah, I mean, Bournemouth might think you're their bad luck charm. You've seen them twice and they've never been able to come back. But Jack, let's go to your story. You know, you dropped the fact that, you know, Tottenham might be interested in Adoni Iriola if postecoglou was to sort of step aside. I mean, what is it that spurs see in a manager like Iriola?
- [04:07]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Well, he's somebody who has, I think, overachieved during his coming up to two seasons with Bournemouth. His ideas have been tested in the Premier League, which I think will probably be important if Tottenham are looking for another manager in the summer. He also plays a really distinctive, attacking, exciting, progressive brand of football. This is something that Tom wrote a really interesting piece on the other day about, like the kind of hallmarks of Iriola's style of play. And I think there just seems to be a consensus in football that he is the coming thing. He is the next new young, exciting Manager. I think he's at that sweet spot where he's only 42 years old, so he's kind of. He's young enough to be original and brave and be really, really convinced of the strength of his ideas. But he's also experienced enough. Those ideas have been tested. Right. Like they were. He did really well in Spain at Valo Vallecano and then he's come over to Bournemouth and done well. And so from a Tottenham point of view, if you're thinking who reminds us most of what Mauricio Pochettino was like in 2014, then Iriola is the obvious choice. Not just because when Pochettino came to Tottenham in 2014, he was 42 and he'd, you know, done well at a South coast club, having previously worked in Spain. Just like there's a kind of uncanny similarity between his CV and Pochettino's. But I just think that kind of sweet spot of being young but also tested is exactly what some clubs want to look for. Okay.
- [05:34]
Ayo Akimwalere
I wonder how Bournemouth would feel if Iriola ever left Bournemouth, actually, because last week during our look into club ownership on the Athletic fc, we were joined by Tim Betchenko, president of Black Knight Football, who own AFC Bournemouth. And also Tim explained how important Iriola is to Bournemouth succession planning.
- [05:53]
Sponsor Voice
I don't want to stand in for Bill on this, but I think he said from the very beginning that he. He wants people to choose to want to be here. And I think that stands for players and coaches. And so if you are going to be sitting with Andoni over the next few months, you're going to talk about what are his goals and ambitions. And what I know is that I think that they will match with Black Knights and with Bore Miss. I really do, because I think there's no ceiling to Bill's ambition for this club. And so we hope and plan for it to match with Andoni's, but, you know, he's a really good human being, our leader, and I think that's. You would like to say that that's the norm within the business, but unfortunately it's not. And he's a great person to work for and it obviously has to. It can't be something where Bournemouth doesn't get what it needs out of the transaction, but when you're talking with individuals like the head coach or all of the players, you want to find alignment.
- [06:52]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah, Phil. I mean, this is always the tricky one, isn't it? Like someone that's so connected to a club, especially bringing an identitus to a club. I mean, you've seen what Bournemouth have done this season. FA cup, good FA cup run. Looking at European football this season, you know, they've done really well in beating the historic top six this season. Beat Arsenal, bit City, Spurs, Manchester United. Him leaving could be really tricky for this club.
- [07:13]
Sponsor Voice
Tricky for the club. Yeah. And he has to get his timing right as well. I mean, I've been following what Bournemouth have been saying and listening to the audio there. I think they would like to think that they can probably offer Iriola a bit more than he's had already, but they'll be realistic about where this is most likely to go. I mean, I get the impression with Aeriola that he's a pretty loyal and honorable guy. I remember really well when Leeds United tried to get him out of Rayo Vallecano. That was the 20, 22, 23 season. Just after they'd sacke Jesse Marsh and Iriola was really keen on the job. So quietly keen, but would have come. But the whole process got tangled up in the fact that while he had a release clause at Ray of Iacano, it wasn't particularly simple to activate and activate in it mid season was liable to seriously upset the club. He was already at something that he just wasn't willing to do. So I don't see any scenario in which he stitches Bournemouth up or leaves in a manner which leaves a surre taste down there. Good coaches exiting a club always upset somebody. Somebody always takes the hump. But that's par for the course. And I'd expect him to be as delicate as he can. For all that Bournemouth are making the right noises. I think at some stage Periola will be off to a bigger job. There's just no way that the impetus that's behind him at the moment doesn't lead to that. But I reckon the consideration for him will be less about leaving Bournemouth than it will be about what he's going to, you know, the credibility of the club in question, the credibility of the project. Because he strikes me 100% as a. As a project manager. I suppose the extent to which the support he gets in a different job facilitates the targets that are set for him. And that all kind of makes me think that while Tottenham are appealing, they'd have to work hard to convince him 100%, I think, because the job is sort of slowly eaten postecoglou. And I'd be interested in Jack's view on whether the fact that this news is broken and we're having this discussion means that it's almost an inevitability now that there's going to be a change at spurs, but as we've said on previous podcasts, Tottenham just don't push the ball when it comes to recruitment or, you know, they don't have a playing budget that allows them to compete right at the very, very top. And much as a rule, has shown himself to be exceptionally good at finding gains in players and some pretty, you know, pretty big gains. The question in his head would surely be, is Tottenham's attitude towards the transfer market going to change with him in charge?
- [09:30]
Ayo Akimwalere
That's a good question, Phil. And that, that was my thing when that story broke about Postecoglou, Jack, was that, I mean, there's a sense of inevitability here. I mean, we're going to go on to Europa League and all that kind of stuff later, but kind of got to be quite unsettling.
- [09:44]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Yeah, I think it is unsettling. I think that. I don't know if I would say it's inevitable at the moment. I'd say that I would not bet on Postecoglou being the manager at the start of next season. The one thing that could, that could really change things is the Europa League. But then sometimes, sometimes teams change their mind. You know, like, I keep thinking back to the example of Eric Ten Hag last season, who was clearly, it felt to me as if he was going to get sacked at the end of the season, and then he won the FA cup and then Manchester United, you know, interviewed other candidates for the job, then decided to give him an extra year in his contract anyway, which was clearly a bad decision to do in hindsight. Right. Because it sort of ruined their summer and the start of this season. Then they had to go and very expensively get a new guy in. But sometimes. So sometimes clubs can change their mind. But I would say at the moment, it's fair to say Postecoglou's situation is in real doubt. And I think that you can see why just by looking at the league table.
- [10:37]
Lonzo Ball
Yeah, for sure.
- [10:38]
Ayo Akimwalere
And Tom, you know, we're dealing in hypotheticals at the moment because obviously Han Postecoglou is still at Spurs. But, you know, you also wrote, just like Jack around, about Adoni Iraeola, and I think you had this question of whether or not he could manage higher up in the Premier League. So let's say he does go to a team like Spurs. Will those methods work in a team that's potentially continuously pushing for European football or for glory? But in that it Was also Thomas Frank in that was also Marco Silva at Fulham. I don't know if there's a metric to measure whether or not someone who's done quite well when they do have more pressure on their shoulders, whether or not they'll actually do what they've done in the lower teams that they've managed.
- [11:18]
Lonzo Ball
Yeah, I think that's a big question. And I think with Iriole in particular, his playstyle is solely really based on the out of possession. It's how do you disrupt the other team from doing what they want to do, how do you make the game uncomfortable for the other team and how do you kind of get the gains in those moments of uncertainty? The 50, 50 for jewels. That's what Bournemouth are very good at and that's what they're good at exploiting. I mean, an example I remember last season is when they went to Old Trafford. They won that game three nil and straight from kickoff they blasted the ball out for a Man United goal kick. And from that goal kick they pressed high. They won the ball back and Dominic Solanke nearly probably should have won a penalty two minutes into the game. So whether you can do that at a team like Tottenham for example, where there are 60,000 fans there to watch you play kind of attractive possession based football, there's obviously pressure from above as well at a team like spurs to play the kind of Tottenham way. Yeah, it's difficult, but there have been managers who have done it in the past. Jurgen Klopp is a great example of somebody who's thrived on transitions and out of possession play and scale that up. But yeah, I think, you know, if I'm a kind of at Tottenham and I'm interviewing Andonia Rayyala, I think the first thing I want to know is, yeah, how are you going to make this into kind of a more possession based, attractive style for what we want to play as a club?
- [12:30]
Ayo Akimwalere
Phil, you were talking about Leeds, having a look at him and you know, I know there is no metric to measure or not whether someone is going to do really well. But Ray of Alcano, not a great budget but he did some great things there. Even Mirandes pushing for promotion, all that kind of stuff is really powerful. But you know, are you surprised by what you've seen in the Premier League? Because it didn't start that great for him, but for some reason his methods have really blended in with the team that he's got right now.
- [12:56]
Sponsor Voice
It was a pretty ropey start and you forget that now. It almost seems a million years ago. I mean, two years is. Is actually. And now he's coming up to that in charge. That is actually a long, long time in the Premier League, or at least longer than a lot of coaches survive for. But in a lot of ways, that's kind of the point. That was a classic case of a scenario where if a club genuinely believe in the coach that they've hired, as opposed to just saying that and then losing faith rapidly, they have to kind of grit their te until the sun starts to shine or until there is no way out of the. The hole that they're in. But it's quite telling back then that Areola didn't panic and he didn't deviate much from. From what he's, you know, what he was. He was trying to do or what he intended to do. That bad start could have done for him because you've seen it before and especially in the Premier League. And he had the added burden as well that he was coming in on the back of Bournemouth, deciding to get rid of Gary O'Neil and to replace him. The narrative around O'Neill's exit was very much that Bournemouth might have made a mistake or were being a bit rash with that, which I don't think was a reflection. I think a lot of people just felt that O'Neill had done well there and perhaps deserved to. To stick around. But 18 months, two years on from that, you won't find too many Premier League coaches who look more comfortable in their own skin. Actually, not too many teams who look more comfortable in their own skin as well. They seem incredibly happy with and content to follow and understand Aeriola's tactics. And he doesn't seem to get wrapped up in the mayhem of the league. He doesn't get sucked into the theatrics. He just keeps a really promising unit taking over. And there's increased attention on them now, but it doesn't seem to be making a difference. You know, you do find with some teams that they cope better when they're under the radar rather than being above it. But Bournemouth, all in all, seem. Seem to be quite happy with the current loving.
- [14:34]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah, fantastic. Well, let's move on because we'll dig deeper into how Iriola would fit in if he were to be tempted in a move to Tottenham Hotspur.
- [14:44]
Lonzo Ball
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- [16:51]
Ayo Akimwalere
Hello listeners, we'd love to hear from you. We're asking you to fill out a quick survey about you and your podcast habits by going to theathletic.com forward/athletic forward/survey25 Three lucky entries will win a hundred pounds or dollars worth of Amazon vouchers as well. So whether you're a longtime listener or a new we want your feedback. Go to TheAthletic.com Athletic Survey 25. That's TheAthletic.com athletic survey 25. The link is also in our episode description. Thanks a lot. Let's get back to today's show. Yeah, I mean Jack, look, it is all speculation still at this moment in time, but Ange Postecoglou is still the coach of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. The Europa League's the one and you mentioned it at the top there. I mean it's a big one. It's a really big one. But potentially the windfall Champions League next season could actually totally turn this situation around.
- [17:56]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Yeah, there's no getting past it. It would be absolutely huge if Tottenham could win the Europa League in Bilbao in May. They haven't won a major trophy for a long time. They would be back in the Champions League next season. It would immediately make Postecoglou, you know, one of the most significant Tottenham managers of recent history if they were able to do it. And they're not that far away. You know, they've got to get past Eintracht Frankfurt who are a very good team and then it would be Lazio or Bodo Glimt in the semi finals and then probably Athletic Bilbao or maybe even Manchester United in the final at the end of May. So they're not that far away. And I think they will also take a lot of courage from the way they played in the second leg against AZ Altmar, which is their best performance in a while. They've got players coming back from injury. Hopefully Diane Kulasevski will be back again soon. So. So there are reasons to be confident, but I just think that I feel it will probably just be beyond them simply because of the way they defend the number of chances they give away. But it can't be completely ruled out at this stage certainly.
- [18:50]
Ayo Akimwalere
I mean attacking wise Spurs, I can't remember what the numbers but spurs have done really well weirdly. But it's the defensive aspect of things.
- [18:56]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Only one team has, I think only Liverpool have scored more goals in the Premier League than this season. You know, they have continued to score goals at an amazing rate this season, especially given they don't even. They're not even like one of those team. Sometimes you get a team who's not very good but they'll one center forward and everything goes through them and so they a bad team can finish up with like 15 to 20 Premier League goals. I remember it used to have Charlie Austin used to do it with Saints or qpr, whatever. Spurs aren't like that. They don't even have a dominant goal scorer. They create tons of chances that goals are scored by people from all over the pitch. But the problem is they haven't managed to marry up that side of the game with the other side of the game. Right. So they have a fantastic goal difference and a brilliant goal scored column, but they're really inefficient, they're quite bad defensively and so they've never been able to get the just rewards for how good they are going forwards.
- [19:45]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah, interesting. Tom, you know, in writing about Iriola at Spurs, potentially, you said that for Iriola to succeed there, the club will need the patience to embrace another coach whose teams do their best work without the ball. I mean, complete opposite as postecoglou. But I ask myself this question, is this a fan base with patience, Is this a fan base to allow someone and believe in him? Because technically that's what we thought they were going to get with Angepostecoglou. Right?
- [20:15]
Lonzo Ball
Yeah, it's a difficult question and obviously with such a big fan base there'll be lots of differing opinions, but you've only got to look at some of the managers that Tottenham have had in the last couple of years who have been more kind of out of possession base. Nuno Espirito Santa didn't last very long. Jose Mourinho was controversial. You know, it could go either way. But you know, as Phil was saying before, Bournemouth and Derail are very comfortable. And you know what they are at the moment because they gave him a lot of time, they've given him a lot of backing. I mean, I remember that game that they lost two Wolves. I think that was a penultimate game of that kind of nine game winless run that they went on. I believe Richard Hughes, the sporting director at the time of Bournemouth, traveled over to Spain to speak to a Raiola entourage and said, look, we trust in this manager, even though it started really poorly because he knew that the style of play would take time to implement. He knew that things weren't completely settled for Iriola. I mean, he wanted to bring Inigo Perez to join the coaching staff, who's now doing a really good job at Ray of Iacano as a manager. But that didn't happen because of work permit issues. There was bad luck, but Bournemouth saw through that. They kind of stuck with him. And now fast forward 18 months and you look at the signings that have been made by Bournemouth. 17 already under Iriola, you know, the likes of Kirkes, Evan Ilsen, they've got the Iraola stamp, you know, they've got very physical, energetic, end to end. So, yeah, it's clear that he's been supported through the entire process, from the difficult moments at the start to good moments now, and whether another team, that is Tottenham, will offer him. That, I think, is the key to success.
- [21:50]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah. Phil, do you think it's a good match? Do you think you could see it working? I mean, we're all speculating at this moment in time, but do you think Iriola and Spurs under this current structure could be a thing?
- [22:01]
Sponsor Voice
I think that's probably the first question that he would ask himself. I can certainly see circumstances in which it would be a really good fit, mainly because of. Of Iriola's very obvious quality as a coach. I can see reasons why it wouldn't be largely because of what's happened to Postecoglou. And I think, going back to your point about time, I think there was a willingness among the crowd at spurs to give Postecoglou time. I think they were very much on board with the idea at the start that it would be for the longer term. But it's been so bitty and it's been so sporadic, the form that it's been very hard to kind of invest faith in as time's gone on. I think with Iriola, he doesn't need to jump on that position, put it that way. He can be considered then he can. Can take his, take his time. I mean, Bournemouth might not be able to repeat what they've done this season, but I don't see them going backwards rapidly. And I think his stock is high enough to make you think that there would be other offers waiting down the line if it wasn't Tottenham for him. And it's difficult with spurs because at the moment they don't feel like a huge amount more than an epic stadium. You know, they haven't won a trophy for 20 years, or like Jack said, there is one that could be in the pipeline and the squad does need work and it does need money. So I would assume that Iriola's concern, if he had one, would be that he walks into a job that kind of consumes him and spits him out quickly, and that can pretty seriously hinder your career or your reputation. And it makes me wonder as well, if spurs, if they do go after him, we'd have to kind of map out the future and properly explain why. What's happened to Postecoglou isn't going to happen to him. I mean, I know it doesn't necessarily work this way all the time, but it feels a little bit like a scenario where Iriola would be interviewing spurs every bit as much as they would be interviewing him because his stock is so high at the moment. Yeah.
- [23:44]
Ayo Akimwalere
Do you see it as a match made in heaven? Probably a wrong phrase, but you know what I mean.
- [23:48]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
I don't know. I mean, I think the key question here is we don't know what Irrela wants to do. Like, I think. I think the ball will be in his court this summer. I'd be very curious to hear what other options he might have. You know, of course he could do another year at Bournemouth. There's talk that Bournemouth maybe might want to offer him another contract. I think he'll be very curious what other jobs might be out there. You know, I don't know whether Real Madrid would make a change. If they did make a change, they got in jab, Alonso would buy, Leverkusen come up. So I just don't know what he wants to do. Although my. My suspicion is that he would want to stay in the Premier League. Like managers, if you speak to any manager, particularly in private, they love the Premier League because you are going up against the other best managers every single week. And obviously these guys, you know, all these managers have got big egos and they all want to. They all want to compete with other great managers every single week. What I would say in terms of the sort of stylistic fit we were talking about is, I know, like, clearly it's a very different way of playing how Bournemouth play and how Tottenham play. But the one thing that I think would really help a transition is that one thing that really unites Bournemouth and Tottenham is the running stats. If you look at like distance covered sprints, covered high intensity running in the Premier League, Bournemouth and Tottenham are generally in the top two positions. And so I think that even though hypothetically, if Iriola were to come into spurs, he would have to teach them to play differently. But the one thing those players absolutely know how to do is run. And so if he's going to demand them to play a really high, intense running game, I don't think there would be a question marks about the physical capacity of the players to do that.
- [25:20]
Lonzo Ball
Yeah, I mean, on the back of that, Tottenham have also been very good at attacking quickly this season. Only Liverpool have scored more goals from fast breaks, which is basically a proxy for counterattacks by Opta. So Their attacking players are used to playing at speed as Bournemouth Iriola do, and that's something that will interest Iriola. We've seen his Bournemouth side, how quickly they get forward after they recoup the ball further up the pitch. With Tottenham as well, have done well under generally under Anders Postoglu, win the ball high up. And there are players in that team. If we look a bit further back, I mean, I'm looking at Pap Sar, Lucas Bergwaal, they're kind of very high energy, aggressive front footing midfielders, the exact kind that Aureola needs in his teams. I think Romero and Van De Ven, the center backs are aggressive, they're happy to go long. Yeah, there are definite matches.
- [26:03]
Ayo Akimwalere
But do they have the defensive discipline, though?
- [26:05]
Lonzo Ball
Well, that's another question and it's why it takes time for Iriola's system to kind of come to fruition. Because it's not just a zonal kind of. We're going to sit in the shape and we're going to defend the space. It's not just a simple man to man. We're going to chase this player around and you're going to chase that player around. There's a lot of handing players off to other kind of teammates as you're going up to press. There's a lot of risk involved. And yeah, that's why Ryan Christie, for example, I mentioned him earlier, is one of Iriola's favorites because he's very intelligent. He. He will make those decisions. Tyler Adams as well, you'll often see him kind of running up the pitch to pick up somebody because another player in front of him is gone. It's all about this kind of collective movement and that takes time to coach. But obviously these players in the Premier League, they're very intelligent and if you have a physical capacity, then you hope that they have the intelligence to kind of make it all work.
- [26:53]
Ayo Akimwalere
And I guess we can't forget the connection with Dominic Solanke, obviously. And obviously going to the spurs so feels like that's the kind of forward that could really work under in Riora quite well.
- [27:01]
Lonzo Ball
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I mean, 70 million, wasn't it, that spurs paid to get him from Bournemouth. So that's how good Irola made Dominic Solanke look.
- [27:08]
Ayo Akimwalere
Jack, very quickly, based on the infrastructure of spurs and, and the way we've seen spurs operate and certain managers, Espirito Santos, Antonio Conte, they've moved on and they are pushing high in whichever positions they're in. Right. So Nottingham FR third Napoli currently pushing for the disc. Is there any thought that spurs will allow this manager, excuse the phrase, to cook properly under that infrastructure?
- [27:36]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
It's a good question. I think a lot of spurs fans would certainly want them to spend more money on wages than they do at the moment. When the Deloitte Football Money League came out a few months ago, it showed that Spurs, I think spend 42% of their turnover on player salaries and they're not really on the par with the other traditional Big six teams anymore. They used to be on a level with Arsenal. Arsenal now spend, I believe, about 100 million million pounds a year more on player salaries than Tottenham do. That all said, I do think they've got a really exciting generation of new young players coming through. Gray, Bergval, Odebear, Tell, and so on. Vuskovic coming in the summer as well, who might be perfect for a manager like Iriola, even if it's not a squad made for kind of ready made competing for the Premier League title.
- [28:20]
Ayo Akimwalere
Okay, fine, let's move on because next we'll assess how much further Iriola could take. Take Bournemouth you're listening to the Athletic.
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Jack Pitt-Brooke
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Jack Pitt-Brooke
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Acumena.
- [30:10]
Ayo Akimwalere
One time we've spoken about, you know, the chat with Black Knight Football's Tim Bedspacenko last week and also their ambitious plans that they have. You know, he was talking from the the new training ground, which was absolutely incredible. Right, they're ready to go, but that's off the pitch. On the pitch we've spoken about players like Kirkes, we've spoken about Dean Hoisen, Kluivert Semenya. I mean, this is a lovely batch of players. The question is, are they even going to stay at Bournemouth? Because there has been so many clubs linked with all these players already.
- [30:41]
Lonzo Ball
Yeah, that is a question. And obviously we've got to remember Bournemouth do stand a good chance of qualifying for Europe as it is. You know, they've been in pretty poor form by their standards this season in the last five games, but they're very much still in the mix. Whether that can tempt players to stay. But also, I mean, they've recruited for the future as well. I mean, I'm looking at the recent transfer window. Julio Soler, who they signed, 19 year old left back, he played yesterday against City. In the absence of Kirkes, that seems like succession planning. Obviously hoisen's only only 19 old as junior Krupi, a young striker they signed who's been on the radar of a lot of big clubs and they swooped in and got him. So yeah, there's a lot of reason for optimism because they are clearly looking to the future, as we've seen with a training ground, but also as we're seeing with their recruitment, if Hoisen and Kirk has go, which is looking potentially likely, there's even more money to spend. And yeah, as we've already seen with Bournemouth, there are a lot of sensible people at the top kind of managing this succession planning and I'm sure they'll carry on to be a competitor Premier League club. The only thing with Iriola in particular is that at the start of his reign, I think there was a kind of a shock factor at how he played and that's kind of worn off a little bit. And if he does choose to stay at Bournemouth, can they continue to evolve and can they continue to catch teams out? Because we are seeing teams like City yesterday, for example, adapting to Bournemouth, knowing that they're going to press high. I think City dropped quite a lot of players deep into their buildup to help them get around that issue. So yeah, that is a real question. Can he keep innovating? But in terms of the structure around him, I think it's as good as it can be for a club at that level.
- [32:11]
Ayo Akimwalere
This is the thing, Phil, right, We keep talking about dangling the carrot of a team with a bit more money like spurs under his nose. But I mean let's not forget he's got quite a good thing here with this team. It's a young team, it's an emerging team, he's got a fair bit of control around the squad and who he brings in and go. And also it's a club that's looking to build for the future. I mean, why didn't he just stay at Bournemouth for another couple of seasons and try his luck to see how far he can push him?
- [32:37]
Sponsor Voice
Because the question I suppose becomes how far can Bournemouth actually go? And even though looking elsewhere in the Premier League, at Brighton and other clubs like that, it doesn't feel like the, the automatic ceiling that was below the traditional top six as it was a while back is still there in quite the same way. But you only really have to look at Bournemouth stadium to understand the limitations that are going to be there financially longer term. They just don't. Aren't ever going to have the clout of, of a club like Tottenham who have a stadium like that. Which isn't to say that they can't necessarily get better under him because he is a terrific tactician and we were writing about this in the newsletter last week after the spurs news broke and I was kind of saying that there's no denying that he is definitely outdoing postecoglou tactically this season. That seems pretty obvious even when you factor in Tottenham's injuries. And it's not as if Bournemouth haven't had any injuries of their own that when at Newcastle in particular they were, they were very sharp but Iriola still made it happen and he is just showing all the hallmarks of a clever coach. He's enhanced Ray Vallecano, he's enhanced Bournemouth, both in what you'd say are limited budgets. His football feels pretty on trend. And I think Jack touched an important point about the wages and the fact that Tottenham are behind when it comes to the wage to turnover ratio compared to other bigger clubs in the Premier League. In those scenarios, if you aren't going the whole hog with your wage bill, then a top class quality coach is something that can make gains for you. And I think Iriola would at spurs certainly Tempts you to think that he might make more of them than Postecoglou has. But there also comes a point in a coaching career where somebody who's been extremely successful or is on that sort of trajectory kind of feels or thinks that they've earned the right to have a crack with a top end budget. And that might be in his head at the moment. It's maybe a little bit soon for him to be thinking like that. You know, the kind of best of the best clubs. But I think it was Jack who said this and I think he's right. He's got to be about the most sought after coach in Europe at the moment point, isn't he?
- [34:34]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah, good point actually. And that brings me to an interesting point, especially if he does go to Spurs. But also the names in that list that you mentioned, Marco Silva and Thomas Frank, Jack, I mean, what kind of coach do spurs need? Like, who's the ideal human to make this work?
- [34:51]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Well, that's kind of the big question, isn't it? It's because, like, the appointment of Postecoglou was so brave compared to the three appointments they made before then of Mourinho, Nuno and Antonio Conte. And I think that it was so different for spurs to go for somebody who'd never been tested in the Premier League before, who had, you know, had a fantastic cv, but very different CV from Mourinho and Conte, who played such a radical, aggressive, entertaining brand of football. Now obviously it's not, it's not really worked out. Coming up to the end of the second year, we can argue about why that is or not. But I suppose the big question for spurs this summer, if they do make a change, is do they stick with the logic that led them to Postecoglou, or do they go back in the other direction or do they find a kind of compromise between the two ideas? I think the fact that they are considering people all with Premier League experience, you know, obviously Silva, Iriola and Frank have all been tested in the Premier League. That leads me to think that they would like somebody whose ideas have been tested here before, rather than going and trying to find somebody who's not even. And you know, let's be honest, like Poster Cosmic was not even. It's not like he had won in Germany or Spain or Italy, like he'd come from a very different league in Scotland all the way into the Premier League. But I don't get the impression they will be that brave. I think they will try and go. That's Why I think Ira is such an attractive candidate, right. Because like I said, he's testing the Premier League, but he's also very new and young and exciting, and I guess that's the kind of balance that they're going to have to strike.
- [36:25]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah, Tom, now, just before we sort of wrap up, I'm really interested in House, in. Interesting player. Made his debut for Spain in the international brand, obviously playing for the Netherlands before, but yet again, I mean, it looks so assured. Look, really, De La Fuente was just like, looks like this kid's been playing for absolutely ages at this level. You see what it can offer. But, I mean, what a coup that is for. For Bournemouth.
- [36:47]
Lonzo Ball
Yeah. It really makes you wonder what Juventus were thinking, to be honest. They had Mateus Soule as well, who they let go in that same summer, and he's doing very good things for Roma at the moment. Yeah, I don't know what's going on there, but, yeah, he's very unique in the fact that obviously he's 19 years old, he's very composed, as you say, but he's got that mix of physicality in terms of being 6 foot 6, winning a lot of his aerial duels. Very aggressive, which is exactly what Bournemouth need. As we were saying before, he needs to follow in. So, for example, it happens quite a lot when Kirk has pushes on. He needs to be the one to follow the player out wide to kind of COVID for him. He does that really well. Doesn't really hesitate when the ball's at his feet as well. It's that having that mix of physicality, but also the composure just to drive forward, forward can do that really well. I mean, there were some clips of him, some of the goals that he scored at youth level for for Juventus and one that he scored in in the cup for Roma last season. Just absolutely amazing. So, yeah, really unique player. But exactly as we've been saying all the way through this podcast, you know, it's testament to how good he's become, how good Dandoni Iriola is, because clearly he's. He's focused on his strengths. He's bought this player, Heisen, because he knew that he would be able to help his system. And. And it's just gone really, really well. And, yeah, he's taken the player to a different kind of level.
- [38:02]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah, Phil, we keep talking about the manager, but, you know, in terms for a team to progress forward and grow, they've also got to keep hold of their best talent. We've named a heap of players, including Heisen I mean it's going to be tough for them for the next. This summer in particular.
- [38:16]
Sponsor Voice
It is. So I guess there's a consideration for Aola as well, is that you work on these players, you improve these players and football being what it is, you, you have your natural place in the food chain and if you happen to be further down it then clubs with more money or more, more bait than you, then often there very little that you can do. And Hoisten, I think is a great example of somebody who has so much noise around him now and has so much appeal and so much talent that you don't think it'll be particularly long before things start getting active on that front. I mean, I wanted to just follow up on something that Jack mentioned and to ask him a question here. You sort of said, Jack, you know, the reasons why it hasn't gone well for Postecoglou could be debated and perhaps a bit more nuanced than just him. But, but surely if, if Tottenham are going to make a change this summer, then it has to be predominantly about him, doesn't it? The fact that it hasn't worked out, otherwise they're not really dealing with the core issue. If it is down to Postecoglou, then a new coach could, could totally change this. But if it's more fundamental or deeper issues or issues away from him, then it might not bring them the sea change that they're looking for.
- [39:19]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Yeah, so I think it's. I think basically they've been victims to a bit of a perfect spot storm this season in the sense that if you take the combination of the thin squad, which they have, I think they think they have bought well with young players, but I think they could have certainly done with a few more of like slightly more experienced, you know, 23, 24, 25 year old players. You know, it's no secret they looked at Pedro Neto, Jacob Ramsey, at Conor Gallagher, those kind of players, none of whom they bought in the summer. Ebereche Ezzi is another name who often comes up in connection with Tottenham, but obviously still playing for Crystal Palace. So I'd say on the one hand, hand you've got the thin squad, on the other hand you've got the very, very physically demanding style of play on the. And then you've got the very, very aggressive tactical plan, you know, defending high up the pitch and it's a bit of a house of cards I think the way they play. Like if they're, if it's perfect, it's brilliant. If one thing's out of place, it falls apart and then you've got the, the new, you know, the schedule this season, which has been really demanding with eight Europa League games in the league phase. If you put all those different factors together, together you get the injury crisis, you get, you know, huge problems in the squad or been exposed and they didn't have good backup at center back. They've lost the two best center backs for most of the season. They didn't have good backup at right back, they didn't have a good backup in goal. The backup center forward Richarlison's been injured most of the season. So like every possible problem in the squad has, I think, been exposed over the course of the season. And so that's led them to this disaster where they've lost, you know, 15 out of 29 Premier League games so far. But I think that you can't, you can't. It wouldn't be quite as bad if you removed any one of those single factors. Like if they, if they'd had a deeper squad, it wouldn't have been this bad if they, if they played in a slightly less intense way. I don't think it would have been as bad if they hadn't been in the Europa League, I don't think it would have been this bad. But I think it's, it's just all those factors together which has led to this, led to this disaster. And I think it's probably too simplistic to simply blame the manager himself, although clearly, you know, he, I would say that certain elements of his approach have been been necessary, but ultimately not sufficient factors for that, this disastrous league season.
- [41:29]
Ayo Akimwalere
Okay, let's end it there. Gents. Jack, Tom and Phil, thanks so much for your time and also thank you guys for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.
- [41:37]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast.
- [41:40]
Lonzo Ball
The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroot and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Aimee Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts.
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Ayo Akimwalere
For free search for the Athletic on.
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