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Assemble and bake@blueapron.com get 50% off your first two orders with code apron50. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more this episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by LinkedIn. If you've ever hired for your small business, you know how important it is to find the right person. That's why LinkedIn Jobs is stepping things up with their new AI assistant, so you can feel confident you're finding top talent that you can't find anywhere else. The best part is those great candidates are already on LinkedIn. In fact, employees hired through LinkedIn are 30% more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. And that's a big deal when every hire counts and hiring doesn't have to be complicated. With LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant, you can skip the confusing steps and recruiting jargon. It filters through applicants based on criteria you've set for your role and surfaces only the best matches so you're not stuck sorting through a mountain of resumes. Because when you have a business to run, you don't have hours to spend on hiring. And you don't want to just wait around hoping the right person stumbles upon your job. That's why LinkedIn Jobs AI assistant suggest 25 great fit candidates daily so you can invite them to apply and keep things moving. So hire right the first time. Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com athleticfc Then promote it to use LinkedIn Jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates. That's LinkedIn.com AthleticFC to boost your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. The Athletic FC hello and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere. We're nearly halfway through the season and already it's been one to remember from Liverpool's record breaking transfer window, Forest's own personal managerial merry go round and the departure of Daniel Levy. Yep, it has been a lot. So join us on a short trip down memory lane. We have to start with the transfer window and it was defined by two great stories. Look, you already know we're going to be talking about the Alexander Isak saga, but first let's get into this one because there was one big surprise. The David Ornstein Bomba of all bombers of the year. Arsenal hijacking Eburetti Eze's move to Spurs. We'll hear from spurs reporter Jack Pickbrook later, but first, here's David Ornstein with the details. Arsenal have reached an agreement in principle with Crystal palace to sign Ebereche Erze for a fee in the region of his now expired release clause, which was 60 plus 8 million pounds. I think it works out precisely at about 60 plus 7.5 million pounds. And he's agreed personal terms with Arsenal as well. It was a move that he ultimately always wanted, but that doesn't tell you the half of the story. However, I don't think the Crystal palace match element is what ultimately delayed Tottenham's proposed transfer. I think that was more a case of the negotiations, the back and forth between spurs and Crystal palace over whether it be the fixed fee, the add ons, the ins and outs of a deal of such magnitude. And it hasn't been suggested to me that the Conference League game brought about a delay that allowed Arsenal to sneak in and get this done. Arsenal detected the negotiations between Tottenham and Palace were not necessarily going as smoothly as Tottenham would have liked and they identified it as a chance to pounce. And pounce they did in quite remarkable speed and efficiency that has allowed them to get this deal done. And you've got to remember in all of this as well that know E's preference was always, if possible, to join Arsenal. He was in their academy at an early age. He is said to be a fan of the club and from what I hear in multiple conversations, you know, he was asking people over a long period of time, you know, are Arsenal there? This Mikael Arteta want me? He was sort of pushing teammates and things like that to try and explore this situation. So I think there would have been a bit of residual intrigue on his part of whether this would ever come about. However, I've got to make clear that Tottenham got a deal done with Crystal palace and with the player. It was ready to rumble and it was very much in its final stages before Arsenal came and did this. I don't know what more Tottenham could have done in this situation. Jack, we spoken before about Daniel Levy not giving managers the required backing. Does this threaten or undermine Thomas Frank's position? Because he's trying to build something here. But then I sort of look at it and surely it's not Thomas Frank's fault or spurs fault that Eze has chosen Arsenal instead. No, I don't think it is Daniel Levy's fault in this instance. I know that's maybe not what Tottenham fans will want to hear. There's obviously a lot of anger out there, but I think that it's kind of hard to see what more Tottenham could have done. You know, in the end they were happy to pay the money for ez. You know, if it takes. Well, it takes three parties to do a deal, doesn't it? It takes the buying club, the selling club and the player. And if they can't all agree on the same thing, then you're not going to get a deal. So I don't think this is a case necessarily of Levy not backing Frank. Like, I think that he. He obviously, you know, I think that in many ways, like, Tottenham did enough under normal circumstances to sign Gibbs White. They did enough under normal circumstances to sign as a. That all said, clearly Tottenham would be a better team with either of those two guys in the team on the pitch. You know, like, they. They obviously have an issue there in that area and I think that it's going to make Thomas Frank's job harder this season because he's got lots of very. He's got lots of sort of physical defensive midfielders. He's got. But he's not really got guys who can, like, play that clever final pass, you know, that give you that bit of magic, that bit of. That bit of genius. And so I think it does make his job harder. But I don't. I don't blame Levy as much as some people will do. As for the Alexander Isaac saga, well, he finally got his move on deadline day. I think certainly in the past few weeks this had definitely been the kind of the direction to travel with it. I had my doubts at various points because you wondered whether Newcastle might, you know, their Saudi owners might dig their heels in and try and make an example out of Isac. But I Think what was key was that meeting that obviously took place between ESAC and the hierarchy at Newcastle on the day of that game at St. James's I think in the aftermath of that game the tone just seemed to change. And you know that that was at the point I'd say when I was very confident we'd end up here. And then of course with Newcastle spending all that money on Volta made last week, you just thought well you know, they've effectively already spent a big chunk of the ESAC money in advance. So yeah, ultimately a sense of inevitability. But yeah, a real saga to get to this point. Yeah, I'm sure for me and for various other people, Adam, who support other teams, they were hoping Newcastle might just hold on to esac. What have you made of it all? And also I guess what does he say about Liverpool and their intentions moving forward for the Premier League? Well, if you'd have said at the start of the window that Liverpool would come away with the players that they have done. And if you add to that, I mean at the time of recording, you know, we're still not quite sure what will happen with Marc Gay as well. So if you add all of that in together, this could be one of the most on paper at least probably the most spectacular single window, you know, I can ever really remember. And even you know, when you were thinking about that point where they signed Ekitike ahead of Newcastle, although back I don't think he was ever as close to Newcastle or perhaps as Newcastle thought he was. Which has been a theme of the window as well. At that point you really thought it was going to be Ekhate or Isaac and for them to come away with both of them. And also you know, obviously there's the tragic loss of Diogo Jota but also to to make decent money on a lot of the other players that Liverpool were looking to get out. It's been pretty, pretty remarkable really. Well, before we move on there is another team who have been part of this ESAC saga and that's Newcastle United. Well, it's here view from Tyneside. Here is the athletics jolt cking. It's been a saga to end all sagas. But finally as the window closes there is some closure for Newcastle. Isak has moved. That means that Eddie Howe can get on with molding his squad. He knows that the players he has want to be there. They will end a difficult window with far more balance and with more quality and depth. That's a good thing. It also means that attention doesn't have to be given to reintegrating Alexander Esak. Fans will not have to confront their feelings about that. It means that Howe's press conferences will not be dominated by that moving forward. These are the positives. However, we shouldn't kid ourselves here. Newcastle have lost a world class player. Their priority this summer had been to keep Isak. The message consistently over the summer was that he was not for sale. Or that he wouldn't be for sale unless anybody got close to their £150 million valuation. They've ended up selling him for significantly less to that to a Premier League club that they ultimately want to emulate. Isak refused to play. He behaved appallingly and he's got what he's wanted. I think that's a terrible look. What message does it send to the rest of Howe's players? If fingers are to be pointed, it should be at the ownership of the club. This is their decision. It's not Howe's decision. And it's their responsibility too. That Newcastle have been forced to navigate this window without a sporting director, without a CEO. After the carnage of a year ago. That does feel like negligence. It's also very sad. Esac scored the winning goal at Wembley when Newcastle ended their 70 year wait for a domestic trophy back in March. For Newcastle fans, that was a moment of huge romance this summer. It feels like romance has withered. Yeah. I mean, look. I guess the question is what kind of precedence does this set for Newcastle? Adam, you know Isak. World class, of course. And I guess there's an idea that he probably might be leaving. But what's to say? Nico Valdemader becomes another great striker that they've bought and then he goes to another top team. Is this just a situation a team like Newcastle find themselves in? I think it's the situation every team may find themselves in at a certain point. You know, it happened to Liverpool a few years ago with Philippe Coutinho. Sometimes in football that happens. Newcastle, by the way, may well benefit from a situation like that. If Johan Visser ends up joining the club today. You know, look at what he's been doing at Brentford for the last few weeks. So I think we have to be a bit careful. You know, some of the kind of ethical judgments being made on Isaac. I think ultimately no fan likes it when it happens to them. A lot of fans depend on it when they benefit from it. We all see it at different points. Sometimes we see it's happened but we just don't hear about it. You know. It'll be a Demand made in a meeting or things like that. And also clubs by the way can. Can treat players pretty brutally as well. When you know, look at the. You know, the bomb squads and the lofts that we hear about every summer as well. Even the term bomb squad I think is a horrible term. It's like, you know, these players, you know, if you take it very literally, like exploding the. The morale and atmosphere in a football club. So it's not very nice. Isaac's a brilliant player. They've still got that amazing midfield of Tonali and Bruno Guimaraes. I do think this is a particularly unique situation where Newcastle have developed a player to the point where he is basically the best striker, the best centre forward at least on the planet. And the reality is Newcastle are at a stage of their progression where they aren't able to win a Premier League title. And with the way that the PSR rules are, aren't able to make a jump in a single summer from being fourth to second and first. They're not quite able to do that. Now you can have all kinds of discussions about that but I don't think it's the worst outcome. And by the way, so I'm going off on Tangents but the 110 million that was offered early in the summer which was somehow framed to be an insult was like an incredible amount of money. Right? It was never an insulting offer in the first place. I think they've done really well to get 130 million. I'm not quite sure. I mean how can anyone be worth 130 million? I think what's he got to do to pay that back from a Liverpool perspective? So for them to be able to have that, reinvest it, build the strength in their squad I don't think is the worst thing. I think where it becomes damaging for Newcastle is the fact they've insisted all along they wouldn't do it. Yeah, fair. I think you finally answered my question there. Appreciate it. There was no rest after the transfer window because just after it ended Tottenham made a change and it wasn't managerial for once. Daniel Levy was out of North London and an era ended. Here's Matt Davies, Adams and the team. Let's start with Thursday's shock announcement from North London spurs pulling the Levy leaves lever. I'm joined by the Athletics, Jack Pitt, Brooke, Jay Harris and Oliver Kaye. Jack, let's start with you. You've written the excellent deep dive on this shock announcement. How did it come about and why? Spurs statement said step down from your understanding that's not actually the case. Right. Well, it depends what you mean by step down. I don't think it was his decision. The way that I phrased it in my work is that he was removed by the majority shareholders, the Lewis family. But no, I don't think he. I don't think he decided on Thursday morning that he actually wanted. He wanted to do something else. I think he was told this by, by the Lewis family and their representatives. How has it come to this? Well, it's, it's a long story. What I've written today is that the Lewis family instigated a review at the start of this calendar year into why the team was underperforming, which led to them bringing in an American firm to. Into the club to look into this and speak to key figures, which is a process which led to a series of changes this summer. We've seen obviously the, basically the restructuring the club, the appointment of a new CEO before the departure of Daniel Levy, the departure of Donna Cullen, one of Levy's like one of the most important people during the Levy tenure. And of course the, you know, the, the final part of this, not that anybody was expecting this outside of an incredibly tight circle 24 hours ago, is the, is the departure of Daniel Levy himself. But I think the view from the, the view from people I've spoken to is that ultimately it comes down to performance on the pitch and the, and the desire of the Lewis family to, for the club to be more successful. Jay, this is seismic news. Obviously you've been covering the club. Who's going to be taking charge now then? It's huge news. It came as a, a massive shock to I think everybody. As Jack alluded to, no one expected it, least of all Daniel Levy this time yesterday. The person who's taken charge as a non executive chairman now. So that's a newly created role. Levy was the executive chairman. So Peter Charrington is going to come in as a non executive chairman. He only joined the board back in March. So what in the space of six months is quite a rapid ascent. Charrington is former CEO of Citi Private Bank. He's someone who's quite, you know, well embedded within the Lewis family. So this is, yeah, quite a substantial summer of change, as Jack already alluded to. And let's see what, what Charrington's going to do next. It's, it's a really long stint at a Premier League club, right, nearly quarter of a century. But I guess the legacy looks different if you view it in terms of on the pitch and off the Pitch. It does, yeah. I mean, the stick to beat him with has always been, you know, Tottenham not winning trophies. Well, Tottenham did win a trophy very shortly before Enich and Levy bought the club. In 99, they won the League cup, then there was another League cup in 2008 and then until then, nothing until the Europa League earlier this year. And I think that has led to a lot of people to sort of characterise it as 25 years of failure on the pitch. I don't think that's fair. I don't think it's accurate or sensible or balanced in the least. I think you've got to look at spurs progress in many different ways. Not just the stadium and the revenues, which are obvious and the sort of commercial success, but they have become a top six team. We now talk of a big six in English football. Obviously they finished 17th last season, but they won a trophy. That's the contradiction there. But we talk about big six in English football. I think if Tottenham hadn't been one run well over this last 25 years, there is no way anybody would be talking about them as part of a Big Six. Even as the sixth member of the Big Six, if you go back 25 years, they were probably on a par or behind Newcastle, Aston Villa, Everton, possibly in terms of immediate on pitch potential, they've been a club that has qualified for the Champions League regularly, that has never been, apart from last season, remotely in danger of relegation over that period has been a sort of stable top 10 club that probably feels it's underachieving when finishing fifth, sixth. And as I say, there's this contradiction that after a period of real struggle on the pitch and a sort of loss of identity post Pochettino, really, they actually won a trophy last year, which, yes, it does confuse the picture somewhat. Should have just said a minute ago, by the way, in terms of the wording of the statement that spurs put out last night, as Jack has already mentioned, it, says that he stepped down. It was only a couple of months ago, just after new CEO Vinay Venkatesham had been appointed. Levy did a very rare interview and it was a joint interview with Venkateshem, talking about how he wanted spurs to win the Premier League and the Champions League in the near future. We know he was really heavily involved in sacking postecoglou, hiring Thomas Frank, and was heavily involved throughout their business in the transfer window, especially with Ebereche Eze. So to suddenly leave three games into the season, you could just tell by the clues that something didn't add up and obviously Jack has has done some great work to uncover what really happened. This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akimolere. This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by LinkedIn. 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If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything coming right along. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Welcome back to our look back on the 25, 26 season so far. Next up, we're entering into sacking season and it's been dominated by one team in particular. Get ready to remember the Ange Postecoglou days. Yeah, it was just days at Nottingham Forest. Here's Tim Spears and Matt Davies Adams with Adam Laventhal. Nuno out, Ange in. How does that make you feel? It's one of those sort of very, very shocking, but also not shocking developments, I guess you could see. You know, the writing was on the wall for Nuno, I think a few weeks ago when this, you know, this very explosive sort of, you know, argument behind the scenes with Edu and Marinakis became public. And then, you know, we've seen huge issues with the sort of transfer window and does Nuno want these players? Does he not? And a couple of poor results on the pitch. And so, yes, some big name managers waiting in the wings and it has sort of felt inevitable for some time. I just think it's, I think it's a real shame, you know, that Forest were on their highest high for decades and heading into Europe and, you know, they've, they've been waiting for this since the 90s and for that to now be, I mean, who knows, Postcogly may come in and just carry on that trajectory and do something really special. But it's just, I guess it must be a bit of a punch in the stomach for Forest fans who've got used to these wonderful times in the past sort of two, three years and are now maybe fearing that this is a sort of a fork in the road to go back to what they were used to in terms of the sort of chaos and madness that they have been used to under Marinakis for so long. So it's very hard to call which way it's going to go from this point, but it's certainly sad that it's come to this. Matt, do you feel winded? No, I think I did. I was at the West Ham game a couple of weeks ago and from that point I knew that this was coming at some point in the near future. I'm actually pretty pleased that it's been done this swiftly. I think there would have been a temptation to drag it out for a couple more weeks, maybe until the next international break, and I don't think that would have served anybody. I think it's probably quite a smart time to do it because Forester at Arsenal on Saturday. Nobody, nobody will expect them to get anything from that game. But after that they play Burnley and Sunderland and that looks like a decent opportunity for if it is Ange Postecoglou or whoever the new manager is to to hit the ground running and put some wins on the board relatively early on in their tenure, it wasn't feasible to carry on with Nuno and it's looked that way since that pre Crystal palace press conference, to be honest. So Forest supporters have had a lot of time to get used to. Sad that the person who led us into Europe for the first time in 30 years won't get even the first match in the Europa League in charge. But I don't think we can say that he's not culpable, at least in part for what's happened here. And at least he leaves with his reputation intact, not only amongst Forest supporters, but as a manager. You know the next job that he gets will be a good one based on what he's done at Forest. So if I'm being optimistic, I can say that there's a scenario here in which Forest win and Nuno wins as well. How does the the prospect of Ange Postecoglou coming in make you, make you feel? Initially it made me feel pretty concerned because of what happened with spurs in the Premier League last season, but also because the style of football between Nuno Espirito Santo and Ange Posta Goglu could hardly be more different now. My hope is that the fact that Forest have changed their squad so much in terms of the. The profile of players and the amount of new players over the summer, that this has been a consideration toward that. Certainly Nuno was talking about trying to change Forest style of play anyway. I actually think that some of the players that Forest have got, that they bought in and that were there already will quite like playing Ange Postecoglou football. I think Elliot Anderson and Morgan Gibbs White are two that spring to mind. I think Murillo is going to have loads of fun. Whether Nicola Milankovic is going to be quite mobile enough to be part of a line that high, I'm not so sure. But yeah, the problem that Postecoglou has got is that spurs were absolutely atrocious in the Premier League last season and that is a concern for Forest going forward. But he won the Europa League and Evangelos Marinakis is desperate for Forest to do that this season and I think that's a big part of the reason why he's been chosen as the successor. The Other part, obviously, is that it's easy to get him because he's out of work now. I would have rather maybe waited a little or spent a little more and got somebody like Amarco Silva, who is somebody else that Marinakis has always admired, who's in the last year of his contract and has made lots of noises about not being particularly happy with Fulham's lack of business. But we just don't know, do we, with, with postecoglou, whether he is going to be able to. To adapt his style of play to how Forest had been more traditionally, or whether he's still wedded to. To the way that he started the season with Spurs. But we ought to remember he did change it. That's how they won the Europa League final, right? They didn't play in the. The typical postecoglou way. And you would hope that somebody as experienced of him as him learns from every job that they have, whether they go well or whether they go badly. And I don't think you can say it went completely badly at spurs because they haven't won anything since 2008 before he arrived. So cautious optimism with some concern. Matt was right to be concerned. We'll shortly follow up that story, but there was a sacking in between. Now, you just heard Matt predict that Nuno's next job would be a good one. Well, it's completely up to you as to whether or not you think taking over at West Ham is actually a good job. He replaced Graham Potter at the end of September. Benji Lanyardo explains why it never clicked. Benji, some of these numbers aren't great. You're looking at six of his 25 games. He only won at West Ham. And I think about that moment that West Ham beat Arsenal in February away, and I'm thinking, okay, there's something, but it just didn't seem to work. Any surprises that I guess he was relieved of his duties? No, I mean, I've got to say I think it's one of the most forgettable tenures as a West Ham manager that we've had in the last couple of decades. I don't think it was clear at all at any stage what he was actually trying to do. I don't think it was clear or Potterball at West Ham was even attempting to be with Lopetegri. It didn't work, but at least you could sense and see that he was trying something quite different with a lot more possession based football and fullbacks really high up. There was a sort of strategy there that failed, but it was A strategy, nonetheless, with Potter. I'm not sure what the strategy was. I'm not sure we ever saw it. And I think it's notable. You mentioned that Arsenal win at the Emirates, that sort of ended their title charge last season. That was sort of soak it up and play on the break football, which is not what you associate with Potter, it's kind of what you associate with Moyes, and it's something you definitely associate with Nuno. So, actually, maybe we've come to where we should have been all along, which is applying a sort of pragmatic approach to the football, rather than something dogmatic that Lopetegui and Potto are both potentially trying to do. You know, I do think we are. We are. We are at a moment in the Premier League where versatility and pragmatism is king. Even Guardiola is willing to kind of hit it long, do long throws, play four centre backs, pop the bus. Yeah. And you've got these kind of like, you know, potential. I wouldn't quite call them Guardiola acolytes, but these dogmatic managers that have got a system and a style, like Ange, like Amarin, like Potter, they don't seem to be working anymore. So we've gone back to something that we know probably does, and that's a manager in the shape of Nuno. And let's just have a quick moment for this line from Benji Ayo. You know, you're talking about the kind of recent history of the football club. Do you want me to tell you what the most important moment in the recent history of this football club was, was when Jared Bowen met Danny Dyer? Because, honestly, I think if he wasn't married into a West Ham family, he knew he would have been off quite some time ago. And now I think the fact that he's, like, married in and, you know, who knows if that's in the prenup? That'd be quite clever of the old man if he got that in there. He's now the captain of the football club, he's playing for England, he's won a trophy. I think it's possible this might be crazy naive that he might actually be in this for the long run, but if he was to go, my goodness, we'd be in one hell of a pickle. So Nuno plods on at West Ham, but I'm sure not many of us are surprised that his successor at Forest couldn't get any sort of rhythm going. Ange Postecoglou lasted just 39 days at the club. And was sacked following a 30 defeat at Chelsea within just 20 minutes of the final whistle. Paul Taylor covers Forest for the Athletic and saw the end coming. The thing that both Steve Cooper and Nuno had in common was that they managed to. They both understood the club, they understood the supporters and they understood that the City ground can be huge asset. The City ground in the last few years has been as noisy as I can remember it. I've covered the club for two decades now, which makes me feel old. But they embraced it and they formed this bond with supporters. And Ange didn't really help himself because whilst he was very bullish, he had a deep well of confidence. Even in his most recent pre match press conference he went on this five minute defense of himself to one question. It took him five minutes to answer it. He was saying he will make Forest a success if he's given the time. But broadly, then he went into a defence of his time at spurs and started talking about himself. And Forest fans don't want a lot, but they want somebody who understands the club and understands the role that they're in and the responsibility they have. And for Postecoglou, when he spoke it was mainly about himself and it was never about. He never used the word we or talked about Forest in a, you know, a sense that there was a. He felt there was a bond there and a relationship there with the club. It was always about him as an individual. And I think that was where he went wrong because that didn't adhere him to Forest fans at all. They had an idea of what they were going to get from Andrew Postecoglou because of the time that he had at spurs last season when they finished 17th, and that he was facing questions about his style of football and his commitment to it. All of those criticisms and doubts that were hanging over him at Tottenham in the final months of his tenure there immediately appeared during his time at Forest. So he complained that he was judged unfairly, but reasonably speaking, he probably wasn't. He was just on what happened and they formed a quick opinion of him because of that, I think. Well, things have stabilized under Sean Dych at least, but it's not been the forward momentum that Forest were looking for at the start of the season. Well, one final sacking for you guys. And it was very much a question of when, not if for Victor Pereira at Wolves. Only the Wolves board knew why they gave him a three year contract weeks into the season without a single win under his belt. But they did. And then 45 days later he was out of the door, Tim Spears tells the story. Oh. Oh, yeah. You know, we did this a year ago, I think, when I knew. Yeah, I remember, I remember calling it therapy at the time. And I think it's going to be something similar today. I mean, you know, the, the tables a bit, the Premier League tables are a bit weird at the moment, but it doesn't lie in Wolves's case. You know, it's most goals conceded, it's fewest goals scored. Joint viewers goals scored. Snow wins in 10. For the second season in a row, Wolves fans should just take their summer holidays until November, basically because there's no point turning up the first 10 matches. However, last year people might remember they had an incredibly tough start to the season. I think something stupid like their first 10 games were against like the top eight from the previous season. This year is really not as bad in terms of difficulty in theory. They've lost to Leeds, Burnley and Fulham, who are the teams that they're in theory trying to catch at the moment in 15th, 16th and 17th. But the football's been pretty bad. The XG numbers offer us sort of a slither of Hope. They're like 18th in goals scored and 13th in goals against. So that's better than Liverpool and Man United. So slightly better than things would suggest. But that's really clutching at straws. But the worst thing I have is like this is just no surprise whatsoever. The squad they've got is not good enough. There's no creativity and the defense is really weak. A lot of that is on, is on Pereira and you know, a lot of individual players have been really struggling. I think he knew his best 11 or formation, but you know, the position that he was put in by the recruitment team and the ownership meant that being in a relegation battle was inevitable. Being rock bottom, 20th, many, many points from safety is a. Is a slight surprise to me, but not. But just not, not too much of a surprise at all. Yeah, the whole place is in a mess. Anti ownership sentiments everywhere you look. Bottom of the table. And to top it off, Sam Allardyce said he wanted a job this morning. So I need to lie down. IO. To be honest, I gotta say, Tim needs a lie down and so do we. So let's take a break. Still to come, John McKenzie on otters. Yeah, you heard me right. Stick around for that. This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by LinkedIn. If you've ever hired for your small business, you know how important it is to find the right person. That's why LinkedIn Jobs is stepping things up with their new AI assistant so you can feel confident you're finding top talent that you can't find anywhere else. The best part is those great candidates are already on LinkedIn. In fact, employees hired through LinkedIn are 30% more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. 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Carvana Pick up fees may apply. Ever find yourself bored or trying to kill time? We have finally found a solution for you. Royal Match don't believe me? Let's hear what people say. Royal Match is such a fun puzzle game. There are over 10,000 levels. Also a bunch of mini games which makes it super exciting. My favorite part, it doesn't need wi Fi. I play on my commute, on flights, even while waiting in line. And honestly, no ads. Not a single one. That's why I'm so into it. So there you have it. A relaxing, challenging, totally ad free game that goes wherever you go. Download Royal Match and see why everyone loves it. You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akimolere. It's the final part of our look back on the season so far and it's high time we spoke about Manchester United. We'll hear about that low point, that loss to Greensby Town in the League cup on another episode. And despite that loss, the 15th place finish last season and Europa League final defeat, Sergim Ratcliffe has decided to stick with Ruben Amarim In November. It was a year since he agreed to move from Lisbon to Manchester. Charlotte Harper had met with a few people connected to the manager and told us about him on the podcast. Did we get a sense of that personality aspect of him? Absolutely. He was described to me as like an influencer and this is not an influencer in our world. But you know, he bringing people together, that is one of his massive strengths. But what he says in the media is very often replicated to what he says to the players. It's not as if he's having one message publicly and then privately it's completely the opposite. And interestingly, when Oli was talking about calculation before his last game as Sporting manager in November, he said obviously when I come here to talk to the media I have thought it all out. But I think that difference in managing Sporting compared to United, it is a different level. And Amarim has alluded to this in his press conferences and Critch will see this as well. You have seen him become spiky in some occasions. I remember the kind of Buy and Deer Inanna discussion when a journalist asked whether Heaton whether he ever considered playing Heaton and he was like what? Why? And he. And he bit back room. Did you give any considerations to starting Tom Heaton, head of Alsei? Because he's conceded a goal similar to that before. Why? I think a lot of people might argue that Tom's a better Keith than him, more experienced in the Premier League, but he suffered a goal like this where without Var. Without Var. With Var it. Var. With Var is a. Yeah. Is a foul. And then what happened in the next game? Arsenal who saved the penalty. Who saved the game? All the game. That was a penalty. No, no, no, no, no, no. Before the penalty. You don't remember the game? I remember the game. Altai was unbelievable. So there is that relatability. He is charming and he definitely gets the charm offensive on, and from a media perspective, you warm to that. But he's. He's no fool. I think he's extremely savvy and smart and knows where he can go with the media. I just wonder, with the scrutiny on United, nobody can prepare you for that. That is different level. Yeah. Is that where you see the spike, do you reckon, Critch? You know, all eyes on Man United. Every question extrapolated, every answer extrapolated as well. I think so. And I think that's natural, though. I think a lot of people who are in the position that Reuben Namrum is in would react like that, because your every decision, every judgment that you make is being judged within itself and you've got nowhere to hide when you're making those calls. Now, that's true of any manager and any coach at any Premier League club, any football club, really. But it's particularly the case at United. And yes, Charlotte's right, he has bit back a couple of times. I don't think as journalists, we actually mind that so much. You know, it's sometimes productive, actually, to get into those kinds of debates and have those sorts of exchanges. And yeah, I think he's conscious sometimes of wanting to fight his corner in that way, and that's only fair and only right. I like it, to be honest. And I think, you know, I'm conscious that we're all just saying how great we find. You're a wooed by Amarim. You're so easily wooed, you lot. Honestly, it's not his job to woo journalists. And also, I don't think he's trying to do that either. And also, it's not really our job to be rude by him. You've got to judge him still on the results, on how he's doing in the job and look, I think, take it all in the round over the last year. And he's right, as you were saying before, it hasn't been good enough. But there is something about his personality and something about the way that he carries himself, not just with the media, but, yeah, just externally. I think that was a huge. That was also a huge factor in why he was appointed as well. I feel like United's leadership at the moment, they. They wanted somebody who'd be able to carry the club on Their back essentially. Another manager feeling the heat this year and quite surprisingly has been title winning Arne Slot, accused of just doing it with Jurgen Klopp's team, the Liverpool boss has been facing some heat, albeit in the shadow of the tragic loss of Diego Jota in early July. There have been many moments where we've discussed the shortcomings of Liverpool Football Club, but no one puts it better than Tifo's John McKenzie, who came out with the analogy of the season. In my job context is everything. It's very easy to think about tactics as being this sort of like overarching theoretical thing that just exists out there and the coach either has it right or doesn't. And if your ideas are correct, then you'll be fine. Football is just absolutely not like that. The tactical aspect is one small aspect of a much broader, I guess, microcosm or just almost like a micro environment where everything has to be, has to be right. And the difference between Yokerez and the difference between Isaac is that they're going into very different teams at very different moments with very different momentum. And I think that's the, that's, that's the thing. I like to talk about cascade effects when, when I talk about what's happening in, in football clubs because. So I'll give you an example of a cascade, but this is a fun story. So the end of the 1800s, sea otter living all along the, the west coast of the US and these sea otters, they live off sea urchin. So they eat the sea urchin and that's fine, but what starts happening is they start getting hunted for their pelts, right? The sea otter die off. That means the sea urchin are more proliferate because they're not predator. The main source of food for the sea urchin is kelp, the seaweed. So because there's more sea urchin, there's less kelp because they're eating more. And kelp is fundamental to the marine environment around that part of the coast. And with the kelp all dying off, there's less places for these emergent like communities of sea life to exist in one little change. Killing off the sea otters has a massive effect across the rest of the board. For the marine life on the west coast of the US Same thing happens in football. As soon as one thing goes wrong, everything can fall apart. And suddenly you'll feel as though you're doing the same things that you were doing before, but the conditions have changed and that means that. And again, is Isaac not a good striker? No, of course that's not the case. Is Viet suddenly bad at football? No, what's changed here is that they've been put into an environment where the conditions have changed and there's been all of these effects where that. Yeah, sure, the tactics may be similar, but, you know, the squad's changed, the momentum has changed. We talk about the tragedy that Liverpool went through in the summer. That has an impact. These players are human beings. They're like you and me. They wake up in the morning and sometimes they have a bad day. When something as tragic as what happened with Diogo Jota happens, that has impacts, has ripple effects and it changes the way that people behave. It impacts performances. So essentially what we're talking about here is very high performance, individuals coming into an environment where things are a little bit off and those cascade effects then start happening. Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, you aren't listening to David Attenborough. You're actually listening to John Mackenzie from the Athletic. Yeah, good point there, mate, honestly. And I just want to touch on another one, Ollie, in terms of Virgil van Dijk, you know, he told his teammates we're letting the manager and ourselves down after Saturday's defeat. You know, that's a noticeable change from the Liverpool captain who I guess by his standards as well, probably hasn't had the best season himself. Yeah, well, if you look at what happened with the dodo in Mauritius. No, no, no, no, no. Van Dijk is far from a dodo. Look, that analogy of the otter is still firmly in my head. I can't shake it off. Sticking with Liverpool for our final moments of the season so far. And I think the biggest story Enter Mo Salah. Seems like a club is throwing me under the bus. That's how I felt it, how I feel it. I think it's very clear that someone wants me to get all the blame. The club promised me in a summer for a lot of promises and nothing. So so far I'm in the bench three games so I can say that they keep the promise. And I said that many times before I had a good relationship with the manager and out of the sudden we don't have any relationship. I don't know why it seems to me how I see that someone doesn't want to be in the club. Yeah. David Ornson on Monday afternoon has reported that he's now set to be dropped for the trip to Inter on Tuesday night despite training ahead of the games. Simon, let's start with you on this one. Salah does not speak often to media. Actually, I think in eight years, only a handful of times that I've counted. How extraordinary is this latest outburst, in your opinion? It's extraordinary in the sense of the revelations that came from it. Obviously, the talk of broken relationship with the manager being thrown under the bus by the club, broken promises, you know, these are big claims. And it lays naked the state of affairs at Liverpool and how. How vulnerable the club is at the moment and how disjointed things are. But it is part of a pattern of behavior from Salah. He has done this before. He does only speak when there is a reason for him to speak, and it's usually relating to something involving himself, and it usually happens when he feels cornered. So it's extraordinary, but it is part of a pattern. And that is where I think, if you look at the club, perhaps this could have been managed. You know, that the club knows exactly what Mohamed Salah is like. If he's unhappy about something that he considers serious, he will speak about it. And it sort of feels like the situations got away from the club very quickly. And this is a club, remember, that has been credited over a long period of time of being ahead of things. And it feels like Liverpool are on the back foot at the moment. Although it does sound like they've made a decision to remove him from the squad against Inter Milan tomorrow night, which, you know, does show that there's a level of authority there. Yeah. Any justification for this, Adam? I mean, his form hasn't been the greatest. In fairness, neither has the teams. But this is quite an explosive thing to come out with. There's been loads of people saying, you know, this behavior of a kind of slightly spoilt aging player raging against the dying of the light. Very reminiscent of kind of what we've seen over the years at times from people like Ronaldo and Messi, when they don't get the attention that they necessarily want as they get older. I think the counterpoint is when you, like, take the three games he's been put on the bench for, West Ham, Sunderland and then Leeds. I don't think you can do that with, you know, probably your best paid player, your most famous celebrated player, and not expect a reaction. I think from a management perspective, you know, if it was once, okay, if it was twice, but when it's three times in a week against teams that he probably. He would consider himself able to score quite a few goals against, I think it would be naive on Slot's part to think that's not going to lead to a reaction just before he goes off to Afcon. So, yeah, I mean, it's fantastic. Compelling from the outside. It is. Well, it's great for us because we're talking about it. I mean, look, he did talk about being thrown under the bus, Oli, but you know, you look at the numbers, Ekatike, Gakpo, Zobotslife, for instance, bigger numbers than Mo Salah this season. Does he have a point? Do you think he premeditated this before he went out and actually spoke his what some might class his truth. I have little doubt that he left that dressing room intending to say his piece. I mean, he doesn't speak very often to anybody but you know, in terms of media, but. But he's done very few of those sort of post match mix zone interviews in the whole of his eight and a half years of ball. So yeah, it was calculated. I know he was frustrated, but it seemed, it seemed very measured, almost what he was saying. I'm sure he was angry, but it looked measured. He looked like he knew what he was going to say in terms of that situation. About him having been left out the last three matches. I think it's particularly difficult when the first months of this season where he's not been playing well and at times last season where he wasn't playing well and at times under Jurgen Klopp in the final season, he certainly wasn't playing well. Towards the end of that season, it looked like it was very difficult for managers to take him off. So he's gone from playing 90 minutes in almost every game, almost looking untouchable, to looking like he's now completely out of favor. And that is surprising. I know you can look at the game state of those last three games and think, well, there is an argument against having brought him on again at West Ham at 20 up or at Leeds at 20 and 32 up. But I do feel like he's probably entitled to feel. Why on earth have I gone from playing all the time to being the scapegoat seemingly for the team's problems? It's not as if they've played brilliantly without him the last three games. And there we have it, a snapshot of the season so far. It's gearing up to be an absolute classic. Let's see what 2026 has in store. All right, for now, from me, goodbye. You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Avi Moorhead. To listen to other great Athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe the Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production. This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by LinkedIn. If you've ever hired for your small business, you know how important it is to find the right person. That's why LinkedIn Jobs is still stepping things up with their new AI assistant, so you can feel confident you're finding top talent that you can't find anywhere else. The best part is those great candidates are already on LinkedIn. In fact, employees hired through LinkedIn are 30% more likely to stick around for at least a year compared to those hired through the leading competitor. And that's a big deal when every hire counts and hiring doesn't have to be complicated. With LinkedIn Jobs AI Assistant, you can skip the confusing steps and recruiting jargon. It filters the through applicants based on criteria you've set for your role and surfaces only the best matches so you're not stuck sorting through a mountain of resumes. Because when you have a business to run, you don't have hours to spend on hiring and you don't want to just wait around hoping the right person stumbles upon your job. That's why LinkedIn Jobs AI assistant suggests 25 great fit candidates daily so you can invite them to apply and keep things moving. So hire right the first time, post your job for free@LinkedIn.com then promote it to use LinkedIn Jobs new AI assistant, making it easier and faster to find top candidates. That's LinkedIn.com Athletic FC to boost your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. This holiday, Verizon is giving you incredible gifts and savings you'll enjoy all year. When you Switch, you'll get four new iPhone 17 Pros. No trade in needed. That's right, get four lines for just $25 a line and the amazing iPhone 17 Pro for everyone. Save big this holiday. Visit Verizon today. $20 monthly promo credits applied to account over 35 months with a new line on Unlimited Welcome. In times of congestion, unlimited 5G and 4G LTE may be temporarily slower than other traffic domestic data roaming at 2G speeds. Additional terms apply for phone offer. See verizon.com for details. Hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's podcast Work Life, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85% of the Fortune 500 companies use the ServiceNow AI platform, while other platforms duct tape tools together. ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data workflows, and AI, connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters Most. 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