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- [00:01]
Chris Weatherspoon
From working side by side to working.
- [00:04]
Host/Interviewer
Together to working wonders. Accelerate your operations with it ot convergence.
- [00:11]
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- [00:39]
Darina (OpenPhone Co-founder)
Hi, I'm Darina, co founder of OpenPhone. My dad is a business owner and growing up I'll never forget his old ringtone. He made it as loud as it could go because he could not afford to miss a single customer call. That stuck with me when we started OpenPhone. Our mission was to help businesses not just stay in touch but but make every customer feel valued, no matter when they might call. OpenPhone gives your team business phone numbers to call and text customers all through an app on your phone or computer. Your calls, messages and contacts live in one workspace so your team can stay fully aligned and reply faster. And with our AI agent answering 24 7, you'll really never miss a customer. Over 60,000 businesses use OpenPhone. Try it now and get 20% off your first six months@openphone.com business and we can port your existing numbers over for free. OpenPhone. No missed calls, no missed customers.
- [01:43]
David Ornstein
The Athletic FC.
- [01:51]
Adam Leventhal
Hi there and welcome to the deal sheet. I'm Adam Levanthal and on this show you'll hear the athletics team of experts analyze and dissect the biggest stories of deadline day. And as it was live broadcast, some of the deals may just have fallen through by the time that you're listening to this. So to get the very latest news, head over to the Athletic but for now let's go to the studio. What a cast I have alongside me football correspondent at the Athletic, David Ornstein. We'll be going through all the latest developments with him very, very shortly. We also have football finance expert Chris Weatherspoon alongside me. Great to see you. You're going to be making PSR interesting a little bit later on in the show and also tell us who is the best run club according to the work that we've seen in this transfer window. We'll come to Chris in a minute. And there you are. It is a Wonderful football analyst, J.J. ball who will be just analyzing all the moves as they happen.
- [02:52]
Host/Interviewer
That's right. Doing it live.
- [02:53]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, that's what it's all about, I'm ready. Whilst we have David in the room and those of you who have watched these shows before, it may well be that David just drops in and out because there is chisel happening on this deadline day, so he might need to pop out. Okay. But David, whilst you are here, Nicholas Jackson, Chelsea fans will be thinking, right, okay, we've got players in. He's heading off. Oh, no, he's not, is he?
- [03:17]
David Ornstein
It looks like he will be heading to Bayern Munich after all. Which was his desire, of course. And before the dramatic event unfolded following Liam de Lapp's injury. But he stayed over there despite Chelsea informing Bayern Munich that they wouldn't be proceeding with the proposed loan deal and asking, requesting that Nicholas Jackson came back. They didn't demand it, even though he's contracted to them and he stayed over there. They did explore other possibilities like Comrade Harder, who's on course to join RB Leipzig. In the end, it seems they're bringing back Marc Gui. Is that how you pronounce his name from? It is now Sunderland. It is now. We'll take that. But Jackson was determined to make that happen. And so it seems from reports as we're coming on air that perhaps they're getting towards an agreement or an agreement's in place for a loan with an option to buy that may become an obligation if certain performance metrics are met. The idea from Chelsea was always going to be a heavy loan fee, a very high, maybe a world record loan fee and then a really big option to buy. Seems like that may be an option that can become an obligation. Now, of course, when they sort of called it off, they were still open to doing a permanent deal for him, but I don't think Bayern Munich are in a position to do that now in terms of a full time transfer. So it seems it will be an initial temporary switch and then with the ability to become permanent.
- [04:40]
Adam Leventhal
Come back to you in two seconds, Chris. In terms of Chelsea's business, we were talking about before we came on, on air about how some clubs have offset their, their purchases with their sales. Chelsea have become very adept at doing well. Yeah, haven't they?
- [04:55]
Chris Weatherspoon
Massively so. I mean, we all talk about how Chelsea have got around PSR and stuff by selling hotels and that, but actually what kind of gets missed is that they're. For years they've been like arguably the best selling club in England. They last season or the season before last, sorry, they set a record for player profits. That was the year that they sold the women's team. So that got all the, the headlines. But yeah, and then this summer, I mean, obviously it depends what happens in the next couple of hours, but they're looking likely to be on course for basically a world record in selling players, not just in a window, in a season and they're going to do it in one window. And like the current record holder for that is Es Monaco and that was when they sold Kylian, Mbappe, Thomas, Lamar and Fabinho. Whereas now kind of look at the players Chelsea have sold. Those three players for Marco were like key first team players for Chelsea. You look down the list of the players they've sold and actually most of them, they didn't really want them. They, they were happy to get rid of them. So, yeah, I think we knew like when they got taken over a couple of years ago that they already had a player trading model and it's just been ramped up to the extreme. And I, and I think really we, I mean, we've all talked in the past about how much they've spent on transfers and how much they spent on buying players and, and they have, they spent an extraordinary amount of money. But we're now seeing the kind of offset of that. We're kind of seeing them, they're still buying players. They might end up, they're probably going to end up in a net income position, I think just about. So they've still spent a lot of money, but obviously the way it works for anyone who has the misfortune of following me on social media will know that psr, you benefit from sales immediately when they happen. So they've really like enhanced the position there.
- [06:42]
Adam Leventhal
I follow you on social media.
- [06:43]
Chris Weatherspoon
It's awful.
- [06:44]
Adam Leventhal
Many other people will do after this, but just point people in the direction of the stat that you pulled out this morning about the strength of the Premier League in terms of the spending because I found that really interesting in comparison with all the other European leagues.
- [06:59]
Chris Weatherspoon
Yeah. So as of this morning, the Premier League on players coming in, so not, not including any sales, but gross, the Premier League, you could spend 2.7 billion pounds. La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga and Ligue 1 had spent 2.6 billion combined. And actually now the Premier League's at 2.8 billion and it's probably going to go high because that doesn't even involve the Isaac.
- [07:22]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah.
- [07:23]
Chris Weatherspoon
So. And it's not, it's not actually the first time in a summer window where the Premier League has outspent those four leagues. It's the third time in the last four years. But this year is shaping up to be the biggest kind of proportion in that sense, I think when I checked about half an hour, 45 minutes ago, across those five leagues, the Premier League had spent 56% the juggernaut that is the Premier League.
- [07:48]
Adam Leventhal
Going back to what Chris was saying before about Chelsea.
- [07:50]
Host/Interviewer
Yeah, I want to ask a question about that.
- [07:51]
Adam Leventhal
Go on. Maybe it's silly. Go for it.
- [07:52]
Host/Interviewer
So when those, the PSR rules come in and so like when you're doing your books, it's what you sell immediately that you can use to help you have more money to spend, right?
- [08:02]
Ad Voiceover
Yeah.
- [08:02]
Host/Interviewer
So do you think they would have analyzed. They've, what they've done is what other clubs haven't done and analyzed that. I mean like we've got a loophole. The loophole is to buy a thousand people and then sell them. Is that kind of what they've done?
- [08:12]
Chris Weatherspoon
I think the thing is like it's not, first of all, it's not really like a football specific rule. It's just the way accounting works. But obviously we know more about it now because that's a, become such a big part of things. But yeah, effectively the way it works is if, if you think like you have a player on your books and you can spread their fee across the amount of time you've got them on your books, but if you sell them, you have to recognize that immediately. You can't like push that off into the future because they've gone. The issue with doing it really is that you kind of, you're always having to chase after it in, in a certain way because while you might recognize all the sales now, if you go out and spend a fortune this year, then you've got future costs that you're trying to, trying to offset. So you have to kind of keep being a good seller. But Chelsea have kept being a really good seller, I think.
- [09:00]
Host/Interviewer
I suppose they have to keep doing it.
- [09:02]
David Ornstein
Yeah.
- [09:02]
Chris Weatherspoon
Okay. Yeah. And that's the thing, like I said, we talked previously about how much they've spent and actually I mean this at the moment I think they're on about 280 million in incomings kind of thing, which is still an insane amount of money. It's only really because we've seen, you know, like Liverpool, who we're going to get on to. Liverpool have spent all. Arsenal aren't that far behind and Arsenal actually have sold hardly anyone by comparison. But Chelsea are still spending big. I think really what we're seeing with Chelsea is arguably something I don't think we've, we've seen certainly not at like the kind of top level where the whole model is like keep recycling players. Yeah, yeah. But they sold. Forgive me if I pronounce his name right. It was Viega who.
- [09:46]
David Ornstein
Yeah, yeah.
- [09:48]
Chris Weatherspoon
So he was, he was kind of like October, he was getting games and it was like, oh, you know, actually they picked him up quite cheap. He's going to be one of these who. Who's like Maresca likes. He's going to play quite often than that. And then they've gone and sold him. But they made about like 10 million pound on him sort of thing. I kind of. I wonder what they say to players when they sign because I sometimes I look and think, well, why would you go and sign for Chelsea? They've already got like 300 players. But they obviously they don't stand in players way, especially if there's a good deal to be made. And they're very, I think, you know, like, it's probably not what we're used to in football. We're getting more used to it. But I think historically you wouldn't have expected this kind of huge turnover of players as that is basically Chelsea's game plan.
- [10:32]
Adam Leventhal
Now you are watching the deal sheet live on this deadline day and the transfer window closes at seven o' clock in the UK. It's currently 21 minutes past four here in the UK and someone has just picked up on something I did mention to you, David. And they said, is it even possible to sign someone in the next three hours? We are going to get. Deals will happen over. They will come over the line. Silver Surfer has, has asked that on, on YouTube. The deals will happen over the next couple of hours.
- [11:04]
David Ornstein
Absolutely. There'll be many deals that have been in motion before now. So you've got some time to finish it off. Will we 1622 UK so yeah, for two and three quarter hours they can also submit a deal sheet.
- [11:19]
Adam Leventhal
That's why this show's called this deal Sheet.
- [11:22]
David Ornstein
You see, we're not silly, are we? We know what we're doing but we don't plan to be on our on air for two hours after the deadline. So that gives them an extra bit of grace to wrap up the deals. And the deal sheet is basically a commitment from all parties to do the deal and get it done. Deals can be done in a relatively short space of time. So if there are deals that just start now with conversations, as long as people are on the same page and move a lot quicker than they have for the prior three months or whatever it's been, then you can come to an agreement, get personal terms in place. Permanent's obviously a bit trickier because there's more that it entails. Some loan deals don't even involve a medical taking place. They trust medical records that they've maybe obtained or take the gamble knowing it's only going to be eight months of the season to go. I don't know. There's a deal that I heard potential deal before we came on air. Harry Wilson possibly joining Leeds from Fulham. Now, I don't know where that's up to because we've been recording this, but you know, to me that came out of nowhere. So a lot of activity still either continuing that had already started or maybe even sparking into life now.
- [12:32]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, let's rat a tat tat through some of the deals. Randal Kolo Moane, Paris Saint Germain to Spurs. I mean, that's one that's sort. You know, people were talking about him moving, but that has popped up today and developed, hasn't it?
- [12:48]
David Ornstein
Has there been a player Premier League who hasn't come until this point then? Randao Kolo Muani? Probably not. Yeah. So spurs have been interested in him in the past actually when he went to Juventus on loan last season and they were the favorites to re sign him. I think it was a move that he wanted and they certainly did. Plenty of other interest in him. He did okay there and has attributes that many clubs like. And you remember we've talked about him being linked with Manchester United in the past and others, Chelsea, etc. Tottenham have struck a loan dealer for the campaign. It's not got an option or obligation to buy as far as I'm aware. Personal terms were done and dusted, which is. Well, we don't know the details but potentially impressive given that that's been a stumbling block for quite a few clubs. The size of his salary and then when I broke the news he was en route to London to undergo medical. France International who will cover for Dominic Solanke while he's out injured with this ankle problem.
- [13:51]
Adam Leventhal
Do we know how long that's going to last or not?
- [13:52]
David Ornstein
No news on that just yet, so. But obviously they felt it was sufficiently serious to bring in reinforcements. But we hope for Solanke he's back pretty soon. There's an international break which is convenient in that sense. Tottenham probably felt they needed a bit more in the attacking areas. Kolo Muani can play out to the left as well as through the middle just because his stature indicates he's a number nine. There is a bit of versatility there and we'll see. Mano Solomon could depart potentially. There's quite a bit of interest in him and especially now they've got a reinforcement because prior to that they were saying he was not going anywhere. So yeah, I think that's a really good signing for the Premier League and Spurs and finally we get to see him on these shores.
- [14:31]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, he's been talked about a lot, you're right. And one of the clubs that you mentioned being linked with him was Manchester United in the. In the past. Let's deal with the Manchester United goalkeeper situation. It was looking overnight obviously after what happened with, with Villa in Crystal palace and Unai Emery rattling on about the keeper that he brought in rather than Emi Martinez being in goal. It looked as if it was going to be Emi Martinez, but not so.
- [14:56]
David Ornstein
Not so. Senna Lehmans is the player that Manchester United are working to land tonight. He's a 23 year old Belgian international from Royal Antwerp. I'm not going to say I knew a great deal about him before his name started appearing in relation to United. Even Villa were linked with him as well as part of this potential equation involving Emmy Martinez. And you know, Man United apparently made a sort of verbal inquiry earlier in the window to do with Martinez. I think it's been quite well documented that Martinez wanted Man United and we all saw his tearful reaction at the end of last season and. And maybe there were certain people inside United who wanted Martinez, but it doesn't seem to have been unanimous and it potentially would have created an issue in having two very well established number ones in Martinez and Onana at the club at the same time with no obvious market for Onana from what we can see. And so they've tried to proceed with the younger developing option for the future as well as potentially.
- [15:59]
Adam Leventhal
It's not solving the issue, is it?
- [16:00]
David Ornstein
Well, depends how good he is. Let's see if he comes into the team. He's pretty highly rated. The fee is substantial, is 21 million euros plus add ons and they've given him a long contract. So there's also the Africa cup of nations that Man United need to think about. I don't know if anything's being worked upon to try and maybe move out Altibiandir on loan. That was a thought in recent days, but whether it happens now given he's been starting recent matches for United, I don't know. Perhaps they carry four keepers with Tom Heaton still there as well. I understand what you're saying, especially when you see somebody like Donnarumma on the market and you talk about Manchester United and their pretty illustrious history when it comes to the goalkeeping position and the errors that we've seen in recent years from multiple keepers. But you never know. Maybe lemons is going to be the tonic. I was trying to think of a.
- [16:54]
Adam Leventhal
Some sort of pan to do with.
- [16:55]
David Ornstein
Lemon lime cordial Alcoholic beverage.
- [16:57]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, maybe it's sort of half worked. Yeah.
- [17:00]
Podcast Intro/Outro Voice
Lemon Cello this is the Athletic FC podcast with Adam Leventhal.
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- [19:43]
Adam Leventhal
You mentioned Donnarumma, David. What's going on with him? Because that's one that's sort of everyone thought was just going to gather pace. He's going to head to Manchester City. It's nailed on.
- [19:53]
David Ornstein
Yeah, there's a possibility that it will develop before the deadline because, you know, it's another triangle. So if Edison leaves, it would be because Donnarumma is coming in.
- [20:06]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, but that can happen after this. So the deal almost has to be if it's going to be Saudi or Saudi or Turkey or somewhere like that.
- [20:14]
David Ornstein
The way Manchester City are describing it is they'll only let Edison go and yeah, he could go subsequently to a market that's still open if Donnarumes landed. Now, there were a space of reports this morning that an agreement has been reached between the clubs and I don't think personal terms would ever have been a problem provided the clubs reached an agreement, but we've got no confirmation of that just yet, so we got to sort of pause and see how it develops. You know, it's a pretty significant outlay for Manchester City given that he's only got a year left on his contract at PSG and he's surplus to requirements and however good a goalkeeper he is, you know, I've always enjoyed watching him. You know, the stylistic point, which I'm not an expert in, has raised many eyebrows and so there's, there's a lot football and financial for Manchester City to consider. They weren't planning to shift Edison even though he seems to have lost his place in the team. It was that they were going with Trafford as first choice, which they told Trafford when they signed him. And then Edison's still there and even Ortega still there. Maybe, you know, the performance of Trafford at the weekend gave a bit of extra consideration to this sort of equation and it seems it's there to be done. It's not easy. Some of the, some of these deals, you know, you've seen Edison heavily linked with Galatasaray one moment, Fenerbahce the next and, and for some Reason you've spent more time over there than me. Quite a few of these deals seem to collapse. I don't know. It's to do with the club to club to do with the salary and personal packages, but I just think we got to be a bit cautious. It is there, but it hasn't been done yet.
- [21:52]
Adam Leventhal
The Donnarummata City makes sense for you because I would have thought for James Trafford, he'll be thinking, that doesn't make sense for me. Does it make sense for you?
- [22:01]
Host/Interviewer
Well, I mean, I think everything that's just been said is all relevant because they've got all these players like Ortega's been really good for them in the last while when he's played. So that him and Ederson are still around is interesting. I mean, I'm sure they're looking for Don Romets because he's suddenly on the market and wouldn't normally expect him to be. He's a lot younger than you might think he is. He's been around forever and he's a great shot stopper and I think his numbers were slightly down last season, but normally his underlying numbers show that he's still like an excellent shot stopper. Controls his box very well and he's massive, which is good. And he's played at the very highest level for many years. So when you've got someone like James Trafford trying to learn from his sidekick rival, that's probably quite useful, having someone like Donnarummer who you're up against. So it makes you step up a level rather than just being like, I'm now James Trafford, the Man City goalkeeper, but Ederson's there, so if he's still there, you've got that to go as well. So it's kind of interesting and we've noted, I think everyone's talked about how Guardiola's goalkeepers tend to need to be an extra player on the pitch when they've got the ball, so they can play through presses the way that Guardiola wants to. But I think Trafford can do it. He made a mistake, but I think that's. He'll learn from that. I'm sure he will. Donarama is not that kind of player, so he's more likely to go long. But as everyone's going to 4, 4, 2 anyway and man marking all over the pitch, I mean, might as well have someone who can stop the ball going in the goal.
- [23:15]
Adam Leventhal
It's handy, isn't it?
- [23:16]
Chris Weatherspoon
Yeah.
- [23:16]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah. That's what you need. Should we talk about Aston Villa?
- [23:19]
David Ornstein
Yep.
- [23:19]
Adam Leventhal
Having talked about Emmy Martinez. Just very quickly, what happens to Emmy Martinez now? Does he just stay at Villa or does he go somewhere else?
- [23:27]
David Ornstein
I'm searching for the name of his replacement who we spoke about.
- [23:33]
Adam Leventhal
Oh, God. Unai Emery spoke about him last night. Three times. Bezot.
- [23:37]
David Ornstein
Three times. I was going to name him three times. When? In response to your question. Bizot. So I guess just a word, right? A word on.
- [23:48]
Adam Leventhal
I know. Unai Emeri. And he's done that before. He did that with Europe, didn't he?
- [23:51]
David Ornstein
He said Europe.
- [23:51]
Adam Leventhal
He said Europe.
- [23:53]
David Ornstein
Europe.
- [23:54]
Adam Leventhal
What do you make of. Of that? And the way that he dealt with that pre match. I know he gave us more afterwards. Do you find that. How do you. How did that make you feel when you saw that?
- [24:04]
David Ornstein
I don't really care.
- [24:06]
Adam Leventhal
Good. Let's move on then. Let's talk about Villa. Let's talk about Villa. What does it. What happens with. With Emi Martinez now then?
- [24:13]
David Ornstein
You would assume he has to reintegrate. Unless something comes up with a club before the deadline. Yeah, which is possible. He's a top quality goalkeeper that, you know, there didn't seem to be a lot wrong with Emi Martinez and Aston Villa. Yeah. Until he was in tears at the end of the season. And so, you know, I don't think this is an Alexander Isaac style situation where he in his mind seemed to have felt his career at Newcastle was over. There was no way back, no desire to reintegrate. Emi Martinez clearly wanted to join Manchester United. If it doesn't happen, you'd like to think in a World cup year that he will get his act together and be available for selection. I don't actually know. You know, speaking to people around Villa today, they were sort of fairly philosophical on it. No move. He's here. We got two good goalkeepers and on we go.
- [25:01]
Adam Leventhal
Okay. On the players. I'll talk about Villa and finance in a minute because I think that that's obviously part of their. Yeah, part of their existence. Yeah, of their existence. But in terms of the players that they're going to bring in, Harvey Elliott, first of all, that is that. That's obviously moving.
- [25:18]
David Ornstein
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Medical, the last I heard. And a deal worth, well, a loan with an obligation to buy. So it's like a permanent at 35 roughly. Million pounds may give or take, depending on which club you speak to. And I think that's a brilliant signing for a player who won player of the tournament at the under 21s this summer and didn't play nearly enough at Liverpool last season. Had to get out. If that was going to be repeated again this time around, RB Leipzig wanted him. There'd been many shooters on the continent and I think, and I reported that going into Europe would have appealed to him. Champions League football somewhere, maybe, then come back. But ultimately, you know, you can't really predict these things and beggars can't be choosers on deadline day. So Villa seems a, a really good outcome for him and I think they'll be delighted. And then to the other ones, you mentioned Jadon Sancho. If Unai Emery can do his trick of recapturing the form of those who have lost it, and we saw that to an extent with Marcus Rashford last season, then you know there's a brilliant talent in there. But clearly you have to get Jadon Sancho right from a technical, physical and mental perspective. And it would be really nice to see that again in a World cup year. You never know with these things. And finally a great professional from, from everything I hear, and a very high level player when he's fit is Victor Lindelof coming in as a free agent following the expiry of his contract at Manchester United. He's the Sweden captain. Well, he was the last I checked. And the sort of maturity and professionalism and leadership that he'll bring to the dressing room as well as a eminently capable player when he's available, means that Villa are really pleased with those three signings actually, which is making a the best out of a pretty bad situation with their finances, with, you know, compliance on, on UEFA FFP and Premier League psr. An interesting situation developed. They were pursuing Osula from Newcastle as a potential loan. I don't know if it would have an option or obligation because Newcastle wouldn't have been interested in a straight loan, but they weren't really able to proceed on it. Villa because it would have been characterized under UEFA accounting methods as being like a swap. And by that I mean that a player has already gone from Villa to Newcastle and that was Jacob Ramsay for a significant profit, pure profit, because he was a homegrown player from Villa. And UEFA would have seen it as a bit of a trade off, even though we might not. We might see them as independent deals and then they would have amended downwards the profit that Aston Villa had gained from that transfer and that basically stopped Villa from doing the Osula deal because they cannot afford to lose the profit from an accounting perspective that they gained from the transfer of Ramsay. And so suddenly Ursula was on his way reportedly to Stuttgart. But I don't think that's happening or it's hit some stumbling blocks. So, yeah, all action at Villa today.
- [28:20]
Adam Leventhal
And I mean, do you want to expand on what David? Has he just stolen all your input?
- [28:24]
Chris Weatherspoon
He can do it all.
- [28:25]
David Ornstein
I have no idea what I'm talking about.
- [28:26]
Adam Leventhal
No, but in terms of. Of how they've had to maneuver. They've been almost squeezed into this the last couple of days of the transfer window to just see if they can just trade a little bit.
- [28:37]
Chris Weatherspoon
Yeah, yeah, they have. And I mean, we all know that, like, villa villa failed UEFA's PSR. FFP, sorry, last year, and they took a fine and they're in a settlement agreement which has, you know, if they fail again, it's another fine and it could go worse than that. So, yeah, I mean, the thing for Villa is Villa have carried, you know, relative to, like, their income, they've carried a really high wage bill for quite a few years now. And. And I know that a lot of. A lot of Villa fans say, well, since Emory came in, like, sold quite a lot of players. And that is true. But unfortunately, things didn't just reset when Unai Emery came in. You know, they spent an awful lot of money before that and they still had a high ridge, really. I mean, they. They had some loans in January who came in on very high wages. So, yeah, they've. They've kind of. They've wound up in a position where, as David's just explained there, that they can't. It is. Obviously they need to strengthen the team, but they're really limited for how much they can. I kind of push the ball, you know, or push the envelope, because they could run the risk, really, of getting kicked out of UEFA competition if they go too far. Like that has happened to clubs. And I think people see the fines and think, well, yeah, of course, like, clubs will just take the fine, but actually UEFA are willing to go a bit further if the repeat offenders. And I think that's what Villa's issue has been, really. And the problem, like the Ramsey deal, for example, the way the UEFA is, like, squad cost rule works, they. They almost only benefit from a third of that deal in a given year. They'll benefit from it again next year because basically what. What they do is they take the last three years worth of profits and then prorate them down. But that means of the 39 million for this year's calculation, Villa only benefit from 30, so they really couldn't afford to kind of slice that even further. So, yeah, and it remains to be seen where they. Where they wind up. I mean, the. The players that they're. They're bringing in, I can't imagine they're on low wages. It will be interesting to see whether they've managed to stave it off this time.
- [30:41]
Adam Leventhal
And it looks as if they need new players in after their start to the season where they haven't scored. Haven't scored a goal yet, have they, Aston Villa?
- [30:48]
Host/Interviewer
I don't think they have. No.
- [30:49]
Adam Leventhal
No, they haven't. Jadon Sancho coming in. Just give us a little elevator pitch on. Why you think that this move for Jadon Sancho is the answer to his career?
- [30:59]
Host/Interviewer
To his career? I don't know if it is for his career. I think he'd be suited better to play in Europe. So I mean, by Europe, I mean specifically Germany or Spain, I think would be really good for him. I think because the way he plays, he's not like he is fast, but he's not the fastest. And I think when you're playing in the Premier League wide and his tricks don't always work. Thing I find with Sancho when he comes 1v1 with the defender is it's almost like he goes to a repertoire of tricks to try and do it. It doesn't feel as natural as some wingers to me. Clearly he's very good at them and so he can produce goals and assists and chances and little moments of magic. But I think at Villa, what will happen is he hopefully can play wide left at team speed where he's best. But wide right is most likely at the moment because John McGinn keeps being played out there and he's not really, I would say, a winger. You've seen John McGinn play before, but you put Jaden Sancho there's maybe better. But the wingers in Emory system tend to come through the middle and end up like a 4, 2, 2, 2 with the fullbacks push up a bit. That's tends to be what they do. But you need wingers in there still. So it might suit Sancho that he can play wide and come inside. But the highlights you've seen for him recently have been when he went back to Dortmund and when he played for Chelsea in the Conference League. They played in, I think it was, or Europa League, I can't remember. But the highlights recently have been in those games where it's in Germany against German teams or in Europe against teams that Chelsea should be beating anyway. Maybe that's because he's not broken to the team and they weren't sure what to do with him. But I think it makes sense for Villa if the deal is not too expensive for them. But I'm not sure it's the best thing possible for him. I would love to be totally wrong and I often am.
- [32:30]
Adam Leventhal
So we'll see if you are.
- [32:32]
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David Ornstein
Yep.
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My business up for the five year price lock guarantee and I can't stop high fiving people.
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That's perfectly natural when you sign up.
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Really? That's great news. High five everybody.
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- [34:30]
Adam Leventhal
Now, let's talk about Newcastle. David, if I may, are you free?
- [34:34]
David Ornstein
Yeah. Yep. We will plow on through. I do have some calls to make, but we can crack on.
- [34:39]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, Obviously Whistler's deal is done and he's in. And that's happening.
- [34:45]
David Ornstein
And we're happy with an agreement at last between Newcastle and Brentford. Brentford side suggesting it's 55 million pounds fixed. Newcastle indicating it's 50 million with 5 million in add ons but it's that bracket which is a huge amount higher than initial bids. I think Newcastle started around £22 million. Forest in January was something like a max of £25 million. So that's clearly.
- [35:13]
Adam Leventhal
That's derisory isn't it?
- [35:15]
David Ornstein
Yeah but you could see his age profile perhaps as being a factor in all of this. 28 going on 29 and and his record he did fantastically last season but you know in, in the previous seasons here and and at his earlier clubs was it. You know I don't think those clubs would have made those offers without doing their own analysis so this is meaningfully higher than than any of those. But Newcastle needed their attacking re reinforcements. He's been up there for a medical and so you expect that to be wrapped up, done and dusted. And finally another quite brutal saga. When you saw the statement that he released and you speak to people at Brentford about their view on it finally coming to an end and what have you made of.
- [35:59]
Adam Leventhal
Obviously yeah Wisser is the sort of best supporting actor in the make a statement on social media Oscars which has obviously been won by Alexander Isak. What have you made of the maneuvering of those two players in particular ESAC to force this move to Liverpool?
- [36:20]
David Ornstein
I understand both perspectives. We don't know the inside story on everything that goes on inside the club. So I understand the view of the clubs when they stand firm they've got players under contract, they want them as part of their plans. They feel there were no assurances given at least in writing to these players that they could go and they're employees of that club and they're paid well, etc. Etc. On the flip side the players feel they had assurances it seems that they could go whether it was written or not if certain criteria were met that they informed the club of their wishes and they were loyal and they performed and suitable offers have come in and so that's led to their animosity. Both situations are really unedifying and I'm not pointing blame at either party. The opposite is somebody like Mark Gahey. But I don't want to just say ah he's perfect and they're not because they had years on their contracts whereas he only had one more year so he can easily behave well. If the move happens great. If it doesn't then I'll leave as a free agent next summer.
- [37:38]
Adam Leventhal
But they're not the first players to agitate for a move. But do you think it has the Potential to set a precedent in the near future that players will actually go, well, no, it worked for him. I'm going to do the same.
- [37:50]
David Ornstein
Well, there was a lot of clubs that I spoke to in this period saying Newcastle must hold on to Isak, Brentford must hold on to Whisser. Because it would set a precedent that if you kick off, you find your way out of a club and then all bets are off. Contracts go out the window. So they need to stand firm. But ultimately almost every time. Not when Luka Modric tried to leave Chelsea for Tottenham for Chelsea and he was made to stay and ultimately joined Real Madrid. There have been examples of clubs standing firm. But when the money starts to come in with the proposals from the other club and the players so upset, training apart, maybe leading to a bad atmosphere, what is that atmosphere going to be like when the transfer window shuts? You don't know. And how much value is that player going to lose whether they play or don't play? And can you really afford it when push comes to shove? And I'm not talking about these situations entirely, but let's not just suddenly point the finger at the players. I repeat, we don't know what goes on in these situations. And there could be some fault on behalf of clubs in all of these situations. Again, not specifically to do Whistler and Isaac. That provides a context that most of us, the public, even us guys working in the industry don't know or see.
- [39:12]
Adam Leventhal
Let's move on to some other questions. Chris, your alter ego is the bookkeeper, isn't it?
- [39:17]
Chris Weatherspoon
Yeah.
- [39:17]
Adam Leventhal
You've got like a superhero.
- [39:18]
Chris Weatherspoon
You know, I got the opportunity to overreal that and it didn't tear it. I wonder why.
- [39:22]
Adam Leventhal
I quite like it.
- [39:22]
Chris Weatherspoon
Yeah, I couldn't think of anything better.
- [39:24]
Adam Leventhal
No, I don't think it really makes it into superhero category.
- [39:27]
Chris Weatherspoon
But Ben Affleck did the accountant, didn't he? And I can't quite.
- [39:30]
Adam Leventhal
No, you can't say that.
- [39:31]
Chris Weatherspoon
No, I can't pull that up.
- [39:32]
Adam Leventhal
No.
- [39:32]
Chris Weatherspoon
Okay.
- [39:33]
Adam Leventhal
We promised it earlier on. In terms of who you think is the best run club in terms of get me in trouble, the transfer window in terms of their transfer business, how would you assess that? Bookkeeper?
- [39:47]
Chris Weatherspoon
Yeah, thanks. Yeah, I mean, I mean the obvious answer is Liverpool. Yeah. By the fact that they've been able to go into. I mean Even if the GE deal falls through, they're over £400 million in new players. Obviously they've sold well as well. But I don't believe anyone has ever spent more than 400 million pounds in a single transfer window.
- [40:10]
Adam Leventhal
Chelsea. Did Chelsea not do that?
- [40:12]
Chris Weatherspoon
They were just under. I think bang on 400. Okay. By the end of the season they'd gone way past that.
- [40:17]
Adam Leventhal
Yes.
- [40:18]
Chris Weatherspoon
Because they spent like 250 million in, in January. But yeah, I think just in terms of transfer fees that we see. So not torn out like agent fees and whatever. Yeah, I think they were sort of the first club ever to go over 400 million in a single window. And I think really there's a couple of ways to look at that. I'm sure some people look at it and think, well, you know, come on, like Liverpool have always made the point that actually went up the expenders and that we've kind of like clocked it with one hard tie behind the back, which is arguably true. I, I think probably what they should be commended for is really that Liverpool aren't really funded to the hilt by their owners. They, relative to other clubs. They, they haven't had a lot of money in and actually a lot of that money that they've had from FSG has been spent on doing up the stadium and doing up like Melbourne, like doing the training ground and stuff like that. And so really like this summer has been kind of years in the making. Like they didn't really spend anything last summer. They bought chiesa for about 10 million. They bought the goalkeeper from Valencia who actually didn't join until this summer. Otherwise they didn't really spend anything. They've always been big wage peers, but transfer wise, actually they've always trailed the other five of the big six. So I think from that perspective it's hard this window. It's very difficult to look past Liverpool just from a financial perspective. Gigi, you can tell us all about whether they've built a team, right? But I think otherwise, you know, it's a bit of a weird one. Right, Because I think we, we're starting to get to a point now where actually being a selling club isn't really the kind of negative connotation that it used to have. Like, I think clubs have realized that actually being good sellers like we talked about Chelsea earlier is part of the game and part of the way you build. And I think a club that we've seen who I know we're only three games in the season, but Bournemouth for example, Bournemouth have sold over 200, made over 200 million pounds. They just went to spurs on Saturday and won one nil. I know we're only three games in, but there's a club that actually, you know, they're working within like the constraints that the rules set them sort of thing. They have been funded by their owner since Bill Foley came in in December three years ago. But actually, if you look at the way they're doing it, it's a bit Brentford. I'm not sure what's going to happen with Brentford this year, but Whisser is another example of them making a fortune on a forward. Now forwards, I think everyone probably agree, are arguably like that, the hardest position to find value. I was having a look earlier today and Brentford have signed six, four. They signed. They signed a Boomer, they signed Whissa, they signed Ollie Watkins, they signed Ben Rama mp and I missed Shada who said Kevin Shada. No, I'm. They saw. I can't remember who the other one. Anyway, there were six who they signed for 25 million and they sold them for 227 million.
- [43:09]
Adam Leventhal
Tony, did you mention Ivan, Tony, Ivan, Tony.
- [43:11]
Chris Weatherspoon
That was it.
- [43:12]
Host/Interviewer
That's what I meant to.
- [43:13]
Chris Weatherspoon
Shouldn't have. And yeah, so they. Okay, there'll be like sell on fees and maybe there were like some added clauses that materialized in that. But when you look at like the way clubs have to operate with it, if they don't have like massive income and stuff, that's the way you. You offset it. And I think it's. It's hard to look past clubs like that, like Brighton, you know, Brighton have been a bit. Almost a bit quiet this year. They've made 130 million on players like Brighton's net spend is as of about an hour and a half ago was like 60 million income, so to say. And I don't think you look at Brighton and think, oh, actually they're a candidate to get relegated. So I haven't really given you an answer there. I've just.
- [43:53]
Adam Leventhal
No, I think you've alluded to the fact that Liverpool have done very, very well.
- [43:56]
Chris Weatherspoon
Yeah, I think so.
- [43:56]
Adam Leventhal
Right, we are done. Jj, thank you very much indeed. You're welcome, Chris, thank you very much.
- [44:02]
Chris Weatherspoon
You're very welcome.
- [44:03]
Adam Leventhal
Great analysis on all the financial ramifications of all these deals being done. David Ornstein as well. Thank you to David, who is no longer here. He's outside working hard. Take care. Bye bye. That was a live broadcast called the Deal Sheet. But don't forget you can get the very latest transfer news right now on the Athletic.
- [44:30]
Podcast Intro/Outro Voice
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beale. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Aidi Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
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