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Cam Jordan
When pro defensive end Cam Jordan isn't running after quarterbacks, he's running his own businesses. He sat down with Microsoft's Jessica Hawke to learn how AI can help. As a football player, we're really focused on the X's and Nos. It's fun because it's a strategy game as well, and I think that transitions well into the business world. There's so much data underlying every single thing that you're doing in your business and having a way to unify all that data. This is like electricity. This is a major platform shift, and I think we're all learning together. Ready to raise your AI game? Find your winning edge at Microsoft.com challenge challengers if you want to know how to fan the football way, ask the fans with the Modela only they know when to show up for the game and what to bring, and that every win is best celebrated with a model. Modelo the cerveza for football Drink responsibly Beer imported by Crown Import, Chicago, IL does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority, skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results, terms and conditions apply. The Athletic FC Podcast Network today I feel I told you I went through a journey. Qatari. An exceptional journey. Arab. A journey which made me meet disabled, many fantastic people. Gay, many people who love football, who live football, who breathe football. African Everyday, a migrant worker. You want to criticize someone, come to me. Criticize me. Here I am. You can crucify me. I'm here for that. Jenny Infantino, FIFA President, World football's most powerful man. He runs an organization that a decade ago was the byword for corruption. This is for the North Korea 2026 well cut bid. When he took over from his disgraced predecessor, Sepp Blatter, he promised to clean things up and we will restore the image of IFA and the respect of if and everyone in the world will applaud us. For some, his election came out of the blue. It was a chance for a fresh start. But I always liked him. I thought he was straight. Others have a different view on his swift rise. I'm pretty sure he had a very smart plan. He played like chess. He now rubs shoulders with controversial global leaders who will host both the World cup and and his new supercharged club World Cup. Infantino is following Trump, is following the Saudis and the money. So who is Gianni Infantino? Where did he come from? Where is he taking the game? And has he fulfilled his promises? I'm Adam Levental. This is a special episode of the Athletic FC podcast. The Most powerful man in world football. I'm on the road in Switzerland to chart Infantino's path to the top. Speaking to his family, it was so easy for him for learning his colleagues. There was quite a meteoric rise through the ranks and those who don't see eye to eye with him. So that was our interaction. It didn't go very well. He didn't like it. Welcome to all of you. It's a pleasure. Infantino is FIFA's ninth president in its 121 year history. And he's nine years into his 10. Kenya, which has included ups and downs. Today I feel gay. That now infamous speech prior to the Qatar World cup in 2022 was widely ridiculed for being out of step amid genuine concerns about the treatment of migrant workers and human rights abuses. The foe self identification took the headlines. The attempt at empathy and vulnerability less so because I know what it means to be discriminated, to be bullied as a foreigner in a foreign country. As a child at school, I was bullied because I had red hair. Well, I've come to the picturesque Swiss Alpine town of Brig Gliss, where Infantino was born. It's around two hours from the Swiss capital Bern, population just 13,000 people, to learn more about those early years. And I'm off to the hairdresser to meet one of his family. That's not a joke. I am. Okay. I'm Daniel Nellen. I am the cousin of Gianni Infantino, FIFA president. From Bric. Janni's father and my mother are brother and sister. We're sat in your salon. Yes. He doesn't come in himself like you. You don't need to go to the hairdresser as much. Gianni and I, we have the same hairstylist. She let you know he cut every day before. Yes, when he was young. And he have the curly hair. I cut him the hair. But then one day he have to decide to. Because we start to lose and then we shave, you know, we have the same problem. You look very similar. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. I was born 1969 and Gianni 1970. Soon after his birth, Infantino, the youngest of three and nicknamed Piccolo, which is Italian for little one was very ill, requiring an urgent search for blood and subsequent transfusion. His blood was very special. The Red Cross and hospital in Bric they look for a blood that go with his blood together. Gianni had this problem, but he has a good luck and she can give him the blood he needs, you know. And so we grew up in the same street. Just we go in and out his house, our house, like one family, an Italian family. Infantino's father, Vincenzo, was from Calabria in the south, mother Maria from Val Camonica in the north. They'd made the move over the border to Switzerland, looking for a better life. They were migrant workers. Maybe now in 2025 have other countries that are bullied in Switzerland. Then it was the Italian. The Italian was the first came in Switzerland from outside, you know, so long you are good. So long you make everything good, then she accept you. But if you are better or you make something wrong, then she attack you. The Swiss, we feel this racism. I don't know, but bullyism. This is so Johnny, he had red hair, gingerbread and yes, his skin have the spring. How do you call freckles? Freckles. So okay, but a little bit, not too much. A big problem. The problem more was to be Italian. The Infantinos had arrived from the northern Italian city of Domodossola, where some of the family remain. The train runs under the 2000 meter high Simplon Pass into Briggs Station, where his parents worked. His mother worked there in a train station. It was the kiosk she sell cigarette and newspaper. And the father, he worked in the city night line. This night train for sleeping, you know, he go again with the train to Rome and Paris, Brazil. When he was maybe 13, 14, he had to work in the kiosk for help the family. And so when Johnny was maybe the Sunday, Sunday afternoon from 2 to 6, he had to work. I go there and we stay together. And we had a lot of time together in this kiosk too, in that way, the train station. Yeah. So this is where a young Infantino would have been sitting and reading the newspapers, watching the trains coming from. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So near to the departure trains. Local tour guide Klaus Bergena has joined me at the station kiosk newspaper here, very international. Frankfurter al Gamaine. So New York Times, Corriere della Serra, Italian. Lucazetta del Sport, Dello Sport. We are near to the border, so that's why there are also Italian newspapers. The newsstand is. It's very cosmopolitan. It is, yeah. It is international also. So little, but it is international. It's such an amazing view as well, isn't it? I know, you know, we're in a. In a train station, but then you look up and it's. Yeah, you see, it's so beautiful. Yeah, it is. So, but. So that's why in Brie you are open to the world, even if it's a small city near to the border and also by train, near to Geneva, near to the Basel, near to Bern. It's very interesting that you have someone that is now in such a powerful position that has a very global outlook. Big like a very wide global outlook. And that can sometimes be controversial into the places that he wants to take football, like Qatar, like Saudi Arabia and things like that. But. But it is part of his fabric, isn't it, that he's always been at a crossroads, going in different directions. Exactly. Because we are near to the border and these also, these families originally from the south of Italy. And an open view, of course, it needs my perception. Before I came here, although I'd read about brigade was small Swiss Alpine village, but actually it's a far more. Yeah, the mindset here is far more sort of looking to the horizon rather than looking to the floor. Exactly, exactly. The foreigners coming to Switzerland and the young ones, they are sometimes have more energy to study and to go forward as sometime our young people, you know. So Gianni Infantino is really from one of these families, what I told you before, the young ones, they work harder to reach some point of her life. Here's cousin Daniel again from home. Italian, German from brick and French in the school and later come English. So if you grow up with this train station with language, international family from Italy living in Switzerland. So this. You grow up with this international feeling. It was so easy for him for learning. I think when he go in the classroom and then the teacher speak tatak, he know this stop. He don't have to learn. After so many hours, like maybe other people, you know, in. At home, he come home and the first what he do, he opened the newspaper, the Gazzetta dello Sport. And he just looked at the results of the games, of the matches, just he have at home only sport, sports. I'm here at FC Brig Gliss. It's a small club in the regional second tier. The backdrop here is beautiful. The pitch sits in the valley between the Swiss Alps, which rise steeply away from the edge of the pitch. And then if you glance up and into the distance, there are snow capped Mountains, it is idyllic. What's also special about them? They're the team with which Gianni Infantino started to shape his life in football. He played for them as a youngster and featured in their third team. What was he like as a. As a footballer? Was he good? He was good, but not the best, naturally. No, he was a good player for our age. As junior, the career was short, but he was soon becoming more of an organizer than a player. He helped to integrate a second generation Italian team called the Folgore Lightning into the club. And it was the first time he dipped his toe into the world of football administration. He was maybe 14, 15. He started to organize and looking for sponsor and looking for shirts and he start very, very early to do this. Not just a football player, but he like to organize, you know. Now if I look along the stand here at FC Briggs, there's around about 100 fans watching this evening's first team game against Sierra. But soon after Infantino became FIFA president, this ground was absolutely packed for a very, very special occasion. Around four and a half thousand people were here all around the pitch for a game called Gianni's game. And it was the day that Brazilian Ronaldo Maradona, Paolo Maldini, Clarence Seedorf and a galaxy of other stars came here to brig to celebrate a local hero gone big. We organized this. He make small organization committee and I was part of this. The president of Fzebrick was part and two, three others. There are five, six people in this organization. He said, why we make this a tournament? And then we look for some legends, you know, old player. And he opened his telephone, just call, hey, Del Piero, what you do the 7th of July? You have time? Why? Yeah, look, I make a tournament in brick with legends. I want make something so special. Yes, I come, yes, I come. Everyone say Yes, I come. Without he just easy with him. People of the football world they like really Janny. The other people who are not involved in this football world have maybe some problem with Janice success. Well, there is some footage that I found on YouTube of Janny's game shot by a local Italian company, Muse24 from Domodossola, who made the trip to Brigg, just like Infantino's family back in the day. And it shows the packed stands and you can hear Maradona's name being cheered as he takes a penalty. Well, Infantino also speaks after the game explaining that he had so much fun playing with incredible players for all three sides, which basically sum him up Italy, Switzerland and the world he said he felt like a kid again. Did you come to that day? Yeah, sure. I was here. This place was full of people playing Moradona and Ronaldo. I know. I watched the video and I thought, you know, to be here, obviously it's beautiful. But for Maradona to have played on this pitch is amazing, isn't it? Yeah, this is really amazing. Yeah. I can't believe that I saw Maradona life on the pitch. Sure, he was not the same anymore, like 20 years ago, but we can saw that he was good, a really, really good player. And it's. Yeah, it's toner from Infantino. Because it's interesting from my perspective because in the broader world there are different perspectives, perceptions of Gianni Infantino and the way that he runs FIFA. Are you aware of that? That not everyone is on his side as many people would be here in Brieg. So I think personally I'm not a really big fan of everything he does because now with the club vm, for example, I'm not a fan of this Club World Cup. The Club World cup, yeah, it's unnecessary tournament. I think it's. And I think there are a lot of people also here in BRIC that think the same, but it's one of us, so we don't criticize the people from here. My name is Houter Srila. I play for FT bric. What's your view on him as FIFA president? As a local person as well as local person, I think we have here a really nice privilege that we had like a president from Brick. But I think FIFA is a really, really big company and not always like the. The best reviews. With all the stories that are going around in the last years, there were always people that talked negatively about it and in the background and in the front they always try to speak positively about it at the FIFA. But you see stories here, you hear stories there, and yeah, actually you're a little bit confused. Well, I'm just driving away from Brig now and I wanted to tell you about something that is quirky, remarkable, odd. Gianni Infantino was born and grew up in Brig, which is just behind me. And I'll head just about 5, 10 minutes up the road to the town of Visp, which is where Sepp Blatter, his predecessor, grew up. What are the chances? Yes, I'm Thomas Bulkene. I'm living in fisp. FIESB is an abbreviation that means very important Swiss people. I'm a lawyer from profession and then I was for two years in the Swiss parliament. Mr. Blotte and Mr. Infantino. I think there are large differences. Mr. Blotte, he was quite nearby the people. He came once or two times a year back in this region. He shared a Rocklet or a white wine with the people and that is not the style of Infantino. Infantino is following Trump, is following the Saudis and the money. More on Blatter's demise to come, which opened the door with a few twists and turns for Infantino. So I'm being held outside by the security and out wonder set. I had dinner with Platini a couple of weeks before it all happened and he was literally talking himself saying my mind has moved on from UEFA. Now the King and the Queen, they were out of the game and then all of a sudden Johnny was there. When pro defensive end Cam Jordan isn't running after quarterbacks, he's running his own businesses. He sat down with Microsoft's Jessica Hawke to learn how AI can help as a football player. We're really focused on the X's and O's. It's fun because it's a strategy game as well, and I think that transitions well into the business world. There's so much to data underlying every single thing that you're doing in your business and having a way to unify all that data. This is like electricity. This is a major platform shift and I think we're all learning together. Ready to raise your AI game? Find your winning edge at Microsoft.com challengers if you want to know how to fan the football way, ask the fans with a model only. They know the perfect volume for the TV and the ball. Most importantly, they know how to celebrate. Ask the fans with the model Modela the Cerveza for football drink responsibly Beer imported by Crown Import, Chicago, IL does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the Boyd? Well, with LinkedIn ads you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title, industry company seniority skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results, terms and conditions apply. This is a special episode of the Athletic FC podcast, the Most Powerful man in World Football charting Gianni Infantino's rise from Swiss born Piccolo, son of Italian immigrants to football kingpin now. After school he studied law at the University of Freiburg, then quickly rose to General Secretary at the FIFA backed International Centre for Sports Studies in Neuchatel before arriving here at UEFA where a former colleague of Infantino's has agreed to speak to me. Hi, I'm Dan o' Toole, founder of Olive Grove Brand Management and prior to that I worked at UEFA for 11 years in charge of their branding. We're sat just a couple of hundred meters down from UEFA HQ in a wonderful bar on the shores of Lake Geneva. This is the life. I can understand why people get into executive football roles. If you can sort of live like this, it's not a bad place to live, I have to say. It's very, very picturesque where we're sat, as you can see. So you got to work with Gianni Infantino when he was at UEFA. What was your first impressions of him? When did you first come across him? Oh, he seemed amiable and is as far. And yeah, he just seemed sort of mild mannered, I'd say not, not a loud character or anything like that, but amiable and got on well with whoever I saw him talking to in terms of being able to sort of get to know him better. You were able to do that away from work as well? Yeah, I mean in the. When I was at UEFA in the early years, we, we used to go out socially and go around this house and yeah, it was. And he was very sort of, I'd say quiet if anything, not, not, not sort of shy, but just sort of quite quiet. Yeah. And then obviously he developed in his roles and that happened whilst you were also. Yes. Working. There was quite a meteoric rise through the ranks. I think he, I think head of was not even part of the path. It was basically manager to director level and then from direct he went to the GS. What is it like to be in a. In a boardroom with him when you're having to sort of, I don't know, maybe ask for X amount of money for a budget or talking about a new project. How does it work? I saw him give various presentations and engage the room, room and I think, I think it was the sort of, the moments off sort of camera if you like. Or for example an airport surrounded by EXCO members. EXCO is short for the executive committee, the decision makers at FIFA way. He was able to basically hold them all in the palm of his hand by telling jokes in about five or six different languages, which, which to me is off the scale. I mean I. It's nothing I could ever aspire to do. Dear friends, Chez amis, kari, amici queridos amigos Mabruk al Marib Parabens, Portugal. Yeah, it's a gift to be able to do that. And obviously then, you know, in his role at UEFA, that's important. But then he's been able to go on and build on that with even more confidence around the world in his role at FIFA as well. So it's obviously part of his makeup that makes him successful, definitely, as a communicator, making people feel that there's no one else around. Basically, when you talk to Janny, he has time for you. I think that's the strongest gift you can have in any sort of realm of life or work. But he seems to be particularly adept at that. When you see him now, do you recognize the same Janny that you used to have dinner with? Yeah, I mean, I saw him a couple of years ago and it was like nothing had changed. Even though everything had changed, it was. Yeah. I mean, he had time for anyone he was talking to, including myself, and obviously had a bit more attention than the average person there. But, you know, you go over there and say hello, and it was just like before. Yeah, it was no problem talking at length. You know, you saw the meteoric rise at UEFA. You've seen it sort of go even higher now at FIFA. There's clearly some tension between the two organizations. Was that always the case? Did you always feel that that was. Is that that rivalry? Yeah, yeah, I think it's always been there. And it was almost. And this is before Janny reached senior level there. It was almost like an indoctrination that you weren't to get on with FIFA, which I sort of thought, oh, they must be terrible then. Until I actually met some of them, and they were some of the nicest professional people I'd ever met. The roles they play politically. I think the thing is that UEFA is by far, by far the most successful of the members of the confederations. And I think there was always that sort of tension between them, but I suspect it was brought on by the success of the Champions League. When you view the environment that Gianni Infantino is now in, you know, with world leaders and the difficult decisions that he has made and the sometimes controversial decisions that he's made. What's your view on the state of FIFA now under Gianni Infantino? Well, they've continued to thrive. I think they're growing. The women's game, that's becoming a huge success in many circles. It's being treated alongside, which is a very good thing. On that topic, let's get the take of the athletics. Women's sports lead Meg Linehan. So I think the bigger question about Gianni Infantino and his role in the growth of women's soccer globally is I just don't fundamentally know how much credit for that should go to him. Is he the one really driving the ship for the growth of women's soccer? Or is it people like the chief of women's football at FIFA, someone like Sarai Bearman who is advocating for the game within a structure that is built by and for men historically and currently? There are certainly good signifiers of growth, but that doesn't mean that that growth has benefited everyone. And that also means that commercial growth has benefited FIFA for finally investing in a product that it could have been investing in all along. So the fact that, yes, Giuliani Infantino is perhaps less outwardly sexist than Set Blatter, sure, net positive. But there are still, I think, big and fair questions to ask about how much he does truly care about the women's product as opposed to the men's. Let's get back to Dan on who his former colleague is now rubbing shoulders with. Some of the characters I wouldn't choose to hang out with, but there again, you know, you're talking about future hosts and things like that. So I think it's. There's many things to do juggle. And you're talking about such a diversity as well, which is obviously a good thing for the sport. But to be able to engage and hold court, as you say. Yeah, I mean, that's a communication trait of gold. Infantino's bromance with Donald Trump began in the US President's first term. Let me stand up, Johnny. You're part of the FIFA team. That's good, that's good. Then when Trump returned, Janny brought in the new Club World cup trophy, which bears his name twice and has a key. Oh, wow. There is no other sports trophy like. Oh, that is. Whoa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Previously, Infantino was given a special award of friendship by Vladimir Putin after the 2018 World Cup. And thank all the people of Russia and congratulate you as well for having hosted and organized the best World cup ever. Infantino sat between Putin and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman at the tournament. Football and politics side by side. I think you describe him as the most powerful man in world football. A politician more than a sports executive. That's the athletics Adam Crofton. Something equivalent to working within the United nations, where you have, you know, over 200 member states, all of which the interests you have to balance. You can then ask, what kind of politician is Gianni Infantino? Is he a democrat, Is he an autocrat? I think he's somebody who likes power and likes being close to those in power. He knows how to deal with Saudi royals as well as he knows how to work with Donald Trump, as well as he knew how to work with Prince Charles or as well as he knew how to work with Vladimir Putin. Right. These are all very, very different kinds of powerful people and wealthy people, but he appears very, very comfortable in those environments. Okay, so back to his career path. How did Infantino jump from general Secretary of UEFA here in neon, second in command to president and former French football star Michel Platini to the FIFA president? Well, like me, it's time to fasten your seatbelts because we're heading back to Zurich. And 2015, when FIFA dominated world headlines. The US government has accused leaders of football's global governing body of tarnishing the sport. This investigation could very well shake up how the world's most popular sport is run. But this is not the end, say the us. It is just the beginning. Under Infantino's predecessor, Sepp Blatter, who'd been in power since 1998, the organization was in crisis. A world of corrupt payments to officials, wire fraud and money laundering was laid bare. With past and future World cup awards called into question. Attorney General Loretta lynch is preparing to talk about that big scandal that has rocked global soccer. We are here to announce the unsealing of charges and the arrests of individuals as part of our long running investigation into bribery and corruption in the world of organized soccer. That was U.S. attorney General Loretta Lynch. More on her later announcing the scale of the investigation. It was a disturbing moment and he couldn't believe it. That set Blatter's long term advisor, Thomas Rengli. You know what happened. Everything slipped out of his hand. All within one day. He was president and he got elected again. But the game was over. But he didn't realize it at this moment. Blatter was indeed re elected for a fifth term at the FIFA congress taking place amid the chaos in Zurich. But more was around the corner. Excuse me. Thank you very much. Sorry. This is, this is starting. We're starting a press conference. Where is my security? Come on. Here we go. Seth. The idea was that I would do Jason Bent, my Premier league footballer character, representing North Korea for their 2026 World Cup. That's UK comedian and prankster Simon Brodkin, aka Jason Bent. The idea would be to hand Sep the emblematic head of corruption. All that's wrong with world football with a big bundle of money in front of the world's press going, there you go, Sepp, this is for The North Career 2026 welcome bid. It's all there, count it. And flung the money up in the air. That was the plan. And the plan went pretty well. I thought that would make a good picture. Throughout all the charges, throughout all the allegations, when everyone's getting arrested around him, he's looked cool as a cucumber. But when someone was actually handing him that bundle of money in front of him, he's like, hold. No evidence. Where's my security? Security? So I'm being held outside by the security and out won the sep. And he looks at me, he says, don't you think you should be ashamed of yourself? Which, you know, there's chutzpah and then there's taking the piss, mate. So I said to him, this was the best I could come up with at the time. I know it wasn't great as a comedian, should have been sharper. But I said to him, well, don't you think you should be ashamed of what you've done? Which was a bit of a na, na, na, na, na moment. I know you are, but what am I? I wish I had something better, I promise you. But that's all that came out. I was just a bit shocked to see the guy. The moment that sort of is now used to symbolize Blatter's FIFA is when all that money was thrown at that press conference by the comedian Simon brokin. What did S.E. blatter think of that moment? Because he looked. He looked frightened and he almost realized what that was going to look like. Yeah, maybe that's the picture which. Which will stay in mind of everybody. But that's not fair, you know, because of course there's a lot of money in. In this whole system. But I would say that was never Sepplater's aim. The money was never his main aim. It's maybe hard to believe, but he has romantic feelings with football. He still believes in the good of the game. This is meant really seriously, but the whole thing just became too big, too much money in a system which is extremely open to corruption. Let's quickly get back to London and catch up with former FA chairman Greg Dyke about what happened next. When that happened and you started to see the house of Blatter crumble, what was your understanding then about what was going to come next? Because at that stage, it wasn't Infantino, was it? Oh, no, we supported getting rid of Blatter. It was always seen, I think, that Platini would replace Blatter and I think Platini thought that. I had dinner with Platini a couple of weeks before it all happened and he was, he was literally talking himself, saying, my mind has moved on from UEFA now. I'm now thinking about the future of FIFA and how I will run it. And two or three weeks later, he was gone. Indeed, Platini and Blatter, who resigned, were both suspended and later banned from football because an investigation was launched into a $1.8 million or $2.4 million payment made by Blatter to Platini in 2011. They both argued it was for Platiny's consultancy work at FIFA a decade before. The excuse being this was just two gentlemen handshake. FIFA didn't have the money at the time. Pittini said, pay me when you can. That's the Athletics Senior Football News reporter Matt Slater. And this payment was made in 2011, which was around the time that Blatter decided to do one more term. So it was either a genuine, yes, we have the money to pay you now. Can you pay me now for that work I did for you before? Here's that money. Or if you like conspiracy theories, a sort of, all right, I'm going to do one more term, have some money. Pipe down, I'll keep the seat warm. In 2025, Blatter and Platiny were cleared by a Swiss appeal court in relation to that payment. At the time, they received eight year bans, creating an opportunity for someone else. Here's Greg Dyke again. When did the Infantino situation first arise to you? Can you recall? Well, I think Infantino decided there was a vacuum and someone persuaded him to go for it. It wasn't us, but I'd always liked him at UEFA. We always. I thought he, he was straight. He then embarked on the most exhaustive. He went to every federation, I think, you know, when you think there's more federations than there are countries almost. He went everywhere and was very amusing about it, about the airlines he'd been on. And he was. I personally thought he would be a good, good choice. Others did too. And he beat Sheikh Salman of Bahrain and Prince Ali of Jordan. Why he's Matt again. He made big promises and the most important promise of all was he told the electorate, the 207 at the time, FIFA members, I'm going to double your development money. He'd generate that extra money by expanding existing tournaments, a 48 team World Cup a 32 team Club World cup, meaning more money via broadcast and commercial deals. My name's Oliver Kay. I'm a senior football writer for the Athletic. People looked at him when he was standing for that FIFA presidency and thought, well, he's clearly going to be an interim president while he waits for his mate Platony to be cleared or to clear his name through the Swiss courts. But it quickly became. Became clear that no Infertino was, was there for Infantino. He had no intention of being a stopgap. My main task in FIFA will be to bring football back to FIFA and FIFA back to football. Shortly before the FIFA presidential election, he held some kind of media event at Wembley. And it was as if he clicked his fingers and ensured that the great and good of world football would be there. Jose Mourinho was there. I think Fabio Capello was there. Luis Figo. It seemed that it was going to be a sort of surprisingly almost glitzy FIFA presidency. And I say surprising because everyone just had this view of Gianni and Vetino as the guy who sort of read out from the auto queue during Champions League draws. Okay, so if everybody is ready, Luis, you ready as well? I hope so. It quickly became apparent really that, that he was, he was going to lean on that, on that side of things. Infantino wanted to be the FIFA president. And nearly 10 years on since, since his election in 2016, it feels like how, how could we have underestimated the pure naked ambition of the guy? Because he's clearly very, very, very comfortable as a political animal, but very, very comfortable, at ease and enthrall in the company of these big heads of state who seem to like him. This is Thomas Renly's view. It's kind of clear that Johnny Infantino, he was always one step ahead because nobody expected him to play, to play a role in this game. But he. I'm pretty sure he had a very smart plan and he played like chess. The king and the Queen, they were out of the game. And then all of a sudden, Johnny was there. There could be some speculations and unanswered question, but I think the whole thing was that Sepp Plotte, he was too confident. You know, he didn't realize that some of the. In his fever, they smiled in his face and they were working on another plan. The Machiavellian plot is the basis of an active criminal complaint against Infantino by Platini, alleging his former number two conspired with others to oust him from the process to become FIFA president. It was filed in France and still lingers in the Swiss system. It's something Infantino has always denied and he's already been investigated by Swiss prosecutors before in relation to this over a series of informal and crucially unminuted meetings starting in 2015 that he held with former Swiss federal prosecutor Michael Lauber in Zurich. The premise being that he was able to grease the wheels of Blatter's demise and Sideline Platiny. In 2023, that case was kicked out of court and Infantino called it a full and clear vict. There's a connection between that investigation and FC Brigg List president Ronaldo Arnold, a boyhood friend and teammate of Infantino who also helped organise Gianni's game that we were talking about earlier on. He also studied law and went on to become a senior regional prosecutor. It was alleged he helped set up those controversial meetings, but he was also cleared of wrongdoing. His friendship was with Infantino has led to him attending big football events over the years. In 2018, at the Russia World cup, for example, he took a selfie with the King of Spain in the VIP section when the two countries met. I've tried to speak to him whilst here at the club, but before I could get anywhere, he told me he doesn't give interviews because of bad experiences with journalists in the past, because it was negative. Finally, now approach promised a bit more on Loretta lynch, the lady who led the U.S. charge against FIFA. Well, she became a partner at Paul Weiss in 2019, a law firm who've represented FIFA for 11 years. To avoid any suggestion of a conflict of interest, she's screened from working on FIFA cases. But she did speak Alongside Infantino at FIFA's compliance conference a year after she joined. Next, we look further at Infantino's pledge to reform. Two structural flaws, in my view remain his battles with journalists. So that was our interaction. It didn't go very well. He didn't like it. And his vision for the future. Are FIFA really happy with having a club World cup once every four years? 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Drink responsibly Beer imported by Crowning Port Chicago, Illinois from mindless tasks to industrial grade AI to ease of mind. Supercharge your transformation with industrial AI. Transform the everyday with Siemens. This is Adam Leventhal with a special episode of the Athletic FC podcast. The most powerful man in world football. Gianni Infantino's first speech as FIFA president in 2016 showed genuine emotion. I cannot express my feelings. His most notable, however, came six years later in Qatar. Today I feel African when we get to Qatar. We've been all over Qatar for 12 years. The decision, did they buy votes? The promises they made. Oh, you know, moving it from the summer to the winter. Migrant workers, the deaths, unnecessary deaths, building World cup stadiums and World cup infrastructure, the human rights stuff, LGBT issues, so many things. That's the athletics senior football news reporter Matt Slater. But by the time we all arrive in Doha, this was a proud, confident Qatar. And Gianni up Infantino was up on that stage. It was a packed theatre. There must have been a thousand people in the room, TV cameras, banks of them from all around the world. At the front, John Effantino delivers a one hour monologue that opens with one of the most famous lines today, I feel Qatari, we are just blown away. Cause it doesn't stop, right? So from that very, very punchy opening which basically sort of says, I'm turning this on you, I'm sick and tired of the negativity. This is going to be a great World Cup. We were told in no uncertain terms our reporting of Qatar over the previous decade had been racist, had been Islamophobic, had been biased, had been motivated by sour grapes about the votes, and that we were still doing it and we needed to stop doing it and we needed to reflect on, if you like, our sins and ills of colonialism. I think for what we Europeans have been doing in the last 3,000 years around the world, we should be apologizing for next 3,000 years. This idea that a great many journalists who really try to understand migrant workers and labor rights in that region, the complexities of it, the push and the pull. What brings poor people to wealthier places to work, the lies that the Qataris told over the years, the soft pedaling, how hard it was they promised, and then it would take years for things to happen and for him to say that we were racist for reporting that I still am annoyed about. Matt attended the FIFA congress in Rwanda the following year when Infantino, newly re elected. He's likely to go to 2031, by the way, said this. What this country has suffered and how this country came back up is inspiring for the entire world, Dear President. So I certainly couldn't give up because somebody was telling me something. He's comparing his sort of FIFA career, his rise to the power at FIFA, to Rwanda's dreadful, dreadful genocide and civil war. Oh, God, that's a bit crass. Two, three hours later, we get to a press conference. We haven't really had any since. We never really get a chance to talk to him. He opens again with a monologue. But I want to say a couple of things I don't understand. For example, why some of you are so mean. Matt took his chance to respond. Matt Slater from the Athletic. Would you clarify, just so I don't misunderstand you again, what you meant by your comparison to your Electoral Campaign in 2016 and Rwanda's Recovery from genocide? You appear to make a direct comparison between your try, try, try again spirit and Rwanda's recovery from that appalling incident. I find it really incredible that you can interpret what I say as making an association with one of the most terrible, terrible tragedies that happened in humanity in this country, with anything that happened in my life. So that was our interaction. It didn't go very well. He didn't like it. It kicked off with other journalists making similar points. And that was the last press conference, the last general press conference he has given. The relationship has broken down. That is sad, I think, on both sides and isn't a healthy place and we should try both sides to find some common ground again, because it isn't right that, you know, that the head of FIFA doesn't speak to us and, and things have got so antagonistic. But that is how it's happened. At the moment, Infantino seems more dialed into promotion. He's got his own sticker in the Club World cup album and has toured the US Plugging the tournament. This was all your idea, right, to bring this Club World cup in. Thank you so much. Much. I'm a big soccer fan. Well, you're most, you're most welcome Dan. It included joining YouTuber Speed on a live stream. You know what's funny though? Yeah. You know, I made a song about the World Cup. Have you ever heard my. Yeah, World Cup. Here's Adam Crafton. I think on the one hand, you know, any major sports organization in 2025 should be looking to diversify the way they are accessing audiences. I think where it becomes more complicated is the fact he appears to have replaced access and engagement, taking on questions that may be a little bit uncomfortable. You know, I think that has slipped and it feels like in replacement of that we have this kind of never ending Instagram service where clearly he seems to have staff who follow him round, filming him at whatever location he's at. Hello everyone from our Miami office. But again, it feeds into this idea of someone who is almost a head of state announcing things, declaring things, rather than, you know, someone leading a sports organization, an organization he pledged to clean up in 2016. And we will restore the image of FIFA and the respect of FIFA and everyone in the world will applaud us. Miguel Maduro chaired FIFA's Governance and Review Committee between 2016 and 2017. He's not convinced Infantino has delivered. Two structural flaws in my view remain and they are the ease to which voting control can take place and voting syndicates can be created and therefore through which elections can be very easily controlled. The supposedly independent bodies that could constitute the mechanism for checks and balances, for increased scrutiny and that will guarantee the rule of law in these organizations. The independence of these bodies is not effectively guaranteed for the most. They are not independent with respect to how the members are selected, to how members can be replaced by the political will of those that they should control. FIFA, say judicial body members can only be elected and dismissed by the FIFA Congress. And the organization doesn't put competencies of committee members into question, always respecting their decisions. So I'm just here now in the main reception at FIFA hq and it's very, very grand, as you would expect, as you walk in through the glass doorway. Straight ahead of you is the branding there of the FIFA Club World Cup 2025, which is obviously what everyone is focused on here at the moment. So I've kindly been shown around the offices of FIFA, which is actually quite rare access to be able to walk around here and see how it all works and see where everyone has their offices. So when you look at FIFA headquarters from the outside, you'll see it as a two floor building. On that second floor, that is where the president Gianni Infantino has His office and there are other management offices as well. And I've come down to minus three now where the council room is, and it's really interesting, actually. You can walk all the way around it and then the room itself is walled in a silver material. And inside that building, that is where the FIFA Council meetings will take place around about four to six times a year. Some big decisions have been made inside those four walls, like Saudi Arabia being awarded the 2034 World Cup. Here's Matt Slater. He completely ripped up the rule book and stage managed and choreographed it so that Saudi Arabia got its World cup with the semblance of a process so that everyone kind of got what they wanted. Everyone knew that Saudi Arabia desperately wanted a World cup and Giano made it pretty clear that he wanted to give them a World cup because they were going to be the new bank of global football for a while. Despite the previous Russia, Qatar controversy. 2030 and 2034 were packaged up. It's genius, really. So you'd already taken out Europe and Africa with the Spain, Morocco, Portugal joint bid. You throw some bones to the South Americans and say you can have three games to commemorate the hundreds. One for Paraguay, which is the home of Common bowl. One for Argentina, one for Uruguay, three games and that's South America's turn. So you've taken out three confederations in one go, leaving only Asia. Again, you do all this on a really expedited timetable. You kind of announce all this, this and say to Asia, oh, by the way, anyone wants to put a bid in, you've got about four weeks. Oh, Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has arrived. Anyone else want to bid? Australia had been thinking about it, you know, having staged a pretty successful Women's World cup, but there's no way a democracy is going to get its, you know, stuff together, get its duck to lines. There was only one Asian bid. It was Saudi Arabia. FIFA say the consolidated process was open, thorough and robust and was unanimously approved by the FIFA Council. BDO has not identified any indications that FIFA did not comply with the bidding processes and the applicable regulations. Thus concluding on our independent assessment, we trust the FIFA Congress to have a solid basis for the forthcoming host award. Well, Infantino met and visited around 130 member nations over the last year, so his time here in Switzerland has naturally been cut back. He's spending a lot of time in the United States with the Club World cup and the World cup taking priority, just like he did when he relocated to Qatar prior to the 2022 World Cup. When he is in Switzerland he lives here in the peaceful and picturesque municipality of zug, which is 40 minutes away from Zurich and FIFA headquarters. And it is beautiful, lush green hills and it all overlooks the deep blue Sugaze lake which is below. It really is high end living. Did you realise you had a famous sort of neighbour? I'm a huge football fan, so of course I looked up and searched for, you know, the house. What's your view on. On him as a. As a president? Well, it's difficult to comment though, because we had all these troubles with FIFA, like with also Swiss men. So now with Infantine, he said that all these problems would be over. But we see now that, you know, there are a lot of new controversies. Don't really want to name them, but I think if you watch football, you know what I mean? I think it's more like a Swiss think that I'm neutral here. If you want to criticize FIFA, I would understand it. But it's not just, you know, criticizing him, it's the whole organization. I'm just stood outside the grey bricked train station here in the Enger district of Zurich and I'm walking towards now the FIFA Museum, which I have been told has a special exhibition on to commemorate this new fangled Club World Cup. My name is Giovanni Marti, I'm the deputy head of communication of the FIFA Museum in Zurich. Tell me about what we have around us, because it is a lot of teams, 32 teams, all displayed in front of us. It's a big competition for FIFA. It's a very important competition for FIFA, starting with all the 32 shirts of the participating teams. That's the official match ball. If you see on the ball, you will recognize the American flag in there. And this is also a tribute to the host country which is organizing this very first edition of the Club World Cup. It's a big tournament for the president, for Gianni Infantino, because it's his baby to have reinvented it like this, isn't it? Absolutely. That question is more better for him. But for us, for everyone working here since the FIFA or here at the FIFA Museum, we are all excited and we know now that's coming nearer and nearer. So we feel a bit, you know, this special feeling in your blood and your veins. My visit to the FIFA Museum coincided with Infantino turning up late to May's FIFA congress in Paraguay. It caused UEFA delegates to walk out in protest. Adam Crafton was there. He decided a week earlier that he would prioritize meetings with President Trump of the United States. And meetings in both Qatar and Saudi Arabia. And he has this big vision that these are the two key markets, the Gulf and the us. He wrote on Instagram that he said, with inverted commas, relatively small investment from Saudi Arabia and the usa, the global football gross domestic product GDP could grow from 270 billion a year to half a trillion. It means more money to redistribute to member nations. Here's New Zealand FA CEO Andrew Pagnell. I always look at the outcomes, so what are the actual outcomes so that they've achieved as opposed to, you know, were they good in that press conference? Gianni genuinely is about the redistribution of wealth. There are the haves and the have nots in the global football community and we are a have not. I don't think you can ever quite walk in those shoes unless you've walked in them. The business is clearly functioning as a business quite well. If you take a pure, especially a pure kind of Western democracy view, you can say, ah, it's too lenient here. He's avoiding that issue here, but he's effectively managing the United nations, right? There's 210 countries. So diving into some of those issues, it's not an easy role. He's certainly willing to innovate. People often talk about him in a very Machiavellian way. But I think one of his more noble aims in many ways is his belief that he's stated that there is this very, very small number of clubs in Europe who are very disproportionately wealthy relative to the rest of the global game. And he's spoken about having, I think, 50 nations who can compete for World Cups and 50 clubs globally who can compete for the biggest prizes. And that he wants there to be these investments coming around the world that mean, you know, a team in Mexico or Brazil or Saudi or Australia is able to compete when it comes to a Club World cup in the latter stages. Now, I don't think most people would look at that and think, that's a terrible idea. You know, it shouldn't just be Real Madrid, PSG and Manchester City and Chelsea who can win forevermore. The more cynical view is FIFA's revenues are largely, largely dependent on the Men's World Cup. Those cycles come every four years. One of the ways that you can kind of gatecrash that is by having a larger stake in the club game. Are FIFA really happy with having a Club World cup once every four years? Do they want it? Perhaps more often? Is that going to become a debate? I wouldn't be Surprised whatsoever. Let's leave a last word to Oliver Kay. In terms of the people who work closely and with him, you know, in that sort of presidential suite, people like him, Those people like him and grabbing onto his coattails and enjoying the ride, enjoying the ride of this new FIFA president who is regarded as a bit of a star in those circles. I think a lot of people are quite impressed by what he's doing and the relationships that he's formed with Trump, with Mohammed bin Salman in Saudi Arabia, with the Emir of Qatar. Some of us might look at those relationships and, and some of the photos and think, oh, is that, is that the guy you want running football? But people in FIFA say it's vital that the head of FIFA has these relationships with these heads of state, particularly when America's about to host the club World cup and the main World cup next summer when, when Saudi Arabia is going to host the World cup in, in 2034. But I think it's also possible to look at it and think, well, is it in some ways more that those relationships are driving FIFA's activities? There's more on Infantino's rise right now on the Athletic this special podcast episode, the Most powerful Man in world Football was written and presented by myself, Adam Leventhalm with additional reporting from Matt Smith Slater, Adam Crafton and Oliver Kay. 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