The Preview - Arsenal vs Liverpool

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast: Episode Preview – Arsenal vs Liverpool (Released October 25, 2024)

Hosted by The Athletic's Adam Leventhal alongside Tim Spears and Nick Miller, this episode delves deep into the highly anticipated Premier League clash between Arsenal and Liverpool. The hosts dissect team form, tactical nuances, disciplinary concerns, and broader league implications, providing listeners with comprehensive insights ahead of the big match.

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Premier League Standings and Key Fixtures Overview

Adam Leventhal kicks off the episode by outlining the crucial fixtures spanning from Friday to Sunday. Liverpool stands atop the Premier League table, holding a one-point lead over Manchester City, while Arsenal occupies the third spot, four points behind the leaders. The hosts underscore the significance of the Arsenal vs Liverpool match at the Emirates Stadium as a pivotal moment in the current season's title race.

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Detailed Analysis: Arsenal vs Liverpool

Current Form and Standings

Nick Miller emphasizes the gravity of the upcoming match, stating, “If Liverpool were to win, yeah, I think it'd be a pretty devastating blow to Arsenal's title hopes” (05:07). With Arsenal having already dropped seven points, the potential widening of the gap could make their title ambitions increasingly elusive.

Arsenal's Disciplinary Issues

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around Arsenal's recent disciplinary woes. The team has been marred by three red cards in eight games, a statistic that raises eyebrows. Nick Miller remarks, “I think that a better indicator of someone having a sort of a team having a systemic discipline problem is number of bookings rather than red cards” (10:25). Tim Spears counters by highlighting the cumulative yellow cards, noting Arsenal has recorded 18 yellow cards this season, placing them among the top in disciplinary records.

The hosts debate whether these red cards signify a deeper cultural issue within the squad or are merely a string of unfortunate incidents. Adam Leventhal muses, “It's no bad thing. It can sort of help spur you on to a trophy” (10:19), suggesting that the aggressive approach might be a double-edged sword.

Arsenal's Tactical Setup and Injuries

With key players like Saliba suspended due to red cards, Arsenal faces defensive challenges. Tim Spears outlines the defensive patchwork Arsenal must navigate, mentioning the potential repositioning of Thomas Partey from midfield to right-back (11:54). The tactical flexibility of Mikel Arteta is highlighted as both a strength and a necessity given the injury list.

Nick Miller discusses the implications of Arsenal possibly fielding Zinchenko or other left-back options against a potent Liverpool attack, particularly targeting Mohamed Salah: “Whoever it is is going to be up against Mo Salah and he looks like he's on it at the moment” (12:41).

Liverpool's Tactical Changes and Defensive Strength

Michael Cox, a guest on the episode, provides an in-depth analysis of Liverpool's recent performances. Referring to their 2-1 victory over Chelsea, Cox observes, “For long periods of Liverpool's 2-1 victory over Chelsea last weekend, Liverpool didn't quite feel like Liverpool” (13:35). He notes a strategic shift where Liverpool focused on stifling Chelsea's defensive passes rather than their usual high-pressing game.

James Pearce complements this by praising Liverpool's defensive solidity, stating, “This is a Liverpool team that just looks so well drilled, so well coached defensively” (19:30). The discussion highlights Liverpool's impressive record of only three goals conceded in eight matches, underscoring their defensive resilience.

Predictions and Conclusions

As the conversation wraps up, the hosts ponder the potential outcomes of the Arsenal vs Liverpool match. Nick Miller expresses skepticism about the match being engaging: “I reckon Nick thinks it's going to be really boring” (21:05), while Adam Leventhal acknowledges the unpredictability given the current form and injuries on both sides.

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Other Premier League Matches

The episode doesn't solely focus on the Arsenal vs Liverpool fixture but also provides previews of other significant matches affecting the league standings and relegation battle.

Manchester City vs Southampton

Tim Spears predicts a dominant performance from Manchester City: “I've essentially decided that Man City are going to absolutely batter Southampton” (05:20), reflecting City's robust form and tactical superiority.

Aston Villa vs Bournemouth

Aston Villa, currently fourth and leading the Champions League qualifiers, is commended for their depth and squad management. Tim Spears notes, “They made quite a few changes and not all enforced changes for the Champions League in midweek and still won” (32:41), highlighting Aston Villa's adaptability and resilience.

Brighton vs Wolves

Brighton, positioned fifth, is set to face Wolves. Nick Miller expresses optimism for Brighton’s prospects: “It's going to be another season of how do they do it?” (34:40), suggesting Brighton's strategic approach could see them consolidating their league position.

Crystal Palace vs Spurs

Concerns are raised about Crystal Palace’s inconsistent performances and potential relegation peril. Nick Miller shares his apprehensions: “I think they're going through a bit of an identity crisis” (36:45), pointing to their lack of cohesive strategy and defensive vulnerabilities.

Manchester United vs West Ham

The relegation battle intensifies with Manchester United facing West Ham. Nick Miller voices his pessimism regarding Manchester United's form: “I don't have that much confidence in Manchester United at the moment” (38:09), while Tim Spears discusses the constant pressure on United's management.

Everton vs Fulham

Everton, dealing with their own challenges, are expected to secure a steady victory over Fulham. Tim Spears forecasts a conservative win: “a fairly stodgy maybe 2-0 win for Everton” (41:15), indicating Everton's pragmatic approach against lower-table Fulham.

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Relegation Battle Analysis

The hosts delve into the precarious positions of several teams battling relegation. Nick Miller predicts a grim future for Leicester, Southampton, and Crystal Palace: “I still think Leicester will go down. I think Southampton will go down. And Crystal Palace” (42:24). Tim Spears concurs, reflecting mutual concerns about these clubs' struggles to secure vital points.

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Final Thoughts and Predictions

In concluding the episode, the hosts reiterate the high stakes of the upcoming weekend. Adam Leventhal encourages listeners to stay engaged with The Athletic's extensive range of podcasts for ongoing coverage and insights.

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Key Quotes

• Nick Miller (05:07): “If Liverpool were to win, yeah, I think it'd be a pretty devastating blow to Arsenal's title hopes.”

• Muriel Miller (10:25): “I think that a better indicator of someone having a sort of a team having a systemic discipline problem is number of bookings rather than red cards.”

• Michael Cox (13:35): “For long periods of Liverpool's 2-1 victory over Chelsea last weekend, Liverpool didn't quite feel like Liverpool.”

• James Pearce (19:30): “This is a Liverpool team that just looks so well drilled, so well coached defensively.”

• Nick Miller (21:05): “I reckon Nick thinks it's going to be really boring.”

• Nick Miller (36:45): “I think they're going through a bit of an identity crisis.”

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Conclusion

This episode of The Athletic FC Podcast provides an exhaustive preview of the Arsenal vs Liverpool showdown, contextualizing it within the broader landscape of the Premier League. Through insightful analysis, expert opinions, and strategic discussions, hosts Adam Leventhal, Tim Spears, and Nick Miller equip listeners with a nuanced understanding of the challenges and triumphs awaiting their favorite teams as the season progresses.

Transcript

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[Athletic FC Podcast Network]

The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

[Adam Leventhal]

Hi there, I'm Adam Levanthal. Welcome to the preview on the Athletic FC Arsenal. Liverpool at the Emirates is the big one this weekend and we will also be setting you up for all of the other Premier League action as well. With me this week is Tim Spears. How are you Tim? How do, how do to you too. And Nick Miller is here as well. How are you?

[Tim Spears]

I'm very well, how are you?

[Adam Leventhal]

I'm very well indeed. Thank you very much for asking. Nick. Ready to look ahead to the setup this weekend which is a 154 from Friday to Sunday. We've got the Friday night football which is Leicester against Forest 4 Saturday 3pm or 10am in the States. Eastern Brentford, Ipswich Villa, Bournemouth, Man City, Southampton and Brighton Wolves. The 5:30 or 12:30 on Saturday is Everton, Fulham. Then onto Sunday 3 2pm or 9am That's Palace, Spurs, Chelsea, Newcastle, West Ham, Manchester United. Then Arsenal against Liverpool. 4:30 or 11:30 at the Emirates and that is is where we're going to start. So Liverpool are top of the Premier League. They're one point clear of Manchester City, four clear of Arsenal in third and also on points Aston Villa in fourth. And let's set the scene by checking in with Ian stone and James McNicholas on our arsenal pod handbrake off just to see how they're feeling.

[Nick Miller]

I hate must win games because you.

[Ian Stone]

Know what, when you start talking about must win games, it's October.

[Adam Leventhal]

But at the same time I think.

[Ian Stone]

More mustn't lose, right?

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, I certainly think that. I certainly think that if we lose, seven points is the gap to Liverpool. Right. And I've basically already decided that Man City are going to absolutely batter Southampton. So six points to City as well. I think it would make for pretty ugly reading in terms of the title race. Not insurmountable. Nothing's insurmountable in October and let's have that perspective. But I do think this is a game Arsenal need to get something from and I think a win would really kind of send a bit of a message and make a bit of a statement. So obviously Ian and James are very keen for Arsenal to win but if Liverpool do and they open up a seven point gap, what's the impact of that at this stage of the season? And also considering what Arsenal have been doing this season so far, if Liverpool.

[Nick Miller]

Were to win, yeah, I think it'd be a pretty devastating blow to Arsenal's title hopes. Just, just going on recent history and the fact that they'll probably need 90 points minimum and they've already dropped seven. So if you're looking for 90 minimum, the maximum you can earn in one season is 114. Their maximum is now 107 already.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah.

[Nick Miller]

And it, you know, it could be down to 104 if they lose at the weekend. So that. What I'm trying to say is why you smile at me?

[Adam Leventhal]

Well, no, you know why I'm smiling.

[Nick Miller]

Go on.

[Adam Leventhal]

When I finish a point.

[Nick Miller]

No, no, no, you've interrupted me.

[Adam Leventhal]

Well, okay, I'm sorry, but if you're watching this on YouTube, we film this in a black studio. I'm looking at Tim and you know, judging by my age, I remember the days when classrooms used to have chalk on a blackboard and it was almost like being in a maths lesson there, Tim, because it was really interesting, your mathematical analysis of the points. But I've broken in and I've stolen your flow. I'm sorry.

[Nick Miller]

Fairly basic sort of year four maths.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah. But that's when I sort of revert back to in terms of my level now.

[Nick Miller]

Yeah. Think I've finished my point. It is, yeah, it is.

[Tim Spears]

I still haven't quite. Even though it's been the case for a few years now, I still haven't quite got used to the idea of it still. You still have to get 90 odd points to even have a sniff of winning the title. But you know, as a man who remembers, I think United won, it was 79 one year in the late 90s or early 2000s. So yeah, it is ludicrous that what Manchester City have done to set this kind of bar as to what you need to do to even get close to winning the league.

[Adam Leventhal]

Well.

[Nick Miller]

And conversely, teams have gone down with 40 points whereas now because it's so stretched out, you need far fewer points to stay up. So it's had an impact on both ends of the table. But yeah, if you look at the fact Arsenal have dropped points in three games already. If they were to drop points here, then they go to sort of Newcastle and Chelsea away their next two games, you sort of looking at those both as must win. So yeah, I'd be a bit concerned if I was an Arsenal supporter at this stage. You know, with their recent run sort of getting through the Leicester and Southampton games unconvincingly obviously losing to Bournemouth. If you're City, that generally doesn't happen. So. Yeah, but I guess they've got to use the Bournemouth defeat. It's a bit of a wake up call for what they shouldn't be doing at this stage of season.

[Adam Leventhal]

Well, Mikel, Arteta has approached games with quite a lot of caution this season. Do you think that he has to sort of change that tack, especially because he's at home against Liverpool?

[Tim Spears]

I mean, I think I'm pretty sure this game is that Arsenal will make this game horrible and because of the injuries that they've got, which we make them onto, and this attitude, as the guys from Hambrokoff said, of it being a kind of must not lose game, pretty sure it's not going to be quite second half of Man City away, but I think it will be of that kind of oeuvre. Obviously, Mikela Tutta has adopted a slightly. In games other than City, he's adopted a slightly more whatever it takes to win attitude. I think that's going to be emphatically the case against Liverpool.

[Adam Leventhal]

I suppose this shouldn't come as much of a surprise that Arsenal have dropped points in all of the games, that they've gone down to 10 men in Brighton City and Bournemouth their last game. So that's three in eight games. And the last team to win the league picking up three red cards was Leicester in 2015 and Arsenal have reached that tally already. So let's, I mean, we don't need to go into the details and analyse the circumstances of Rice being sent off, Trossard being sent off and Saliba being sent off. But is it a disciplinary problem or have they just got unlucky on three occasions?

[Nick Miller]

I mean, most red cards this season, the stat that flashed up on match the day last weekend, most red cards since Boxing Day 2019 by a distance, you know, five more than any other team. Is that a coincidence? Probably not. Is it a conspiracy? No, I'm going to say no.

[Adam Leventhal]

Depends what seat you're sitting in.

[Nick Miller]

Yeah, exactly.

[Tim Spears]

But I think I didn't like the pause that you left this week. People are going to fill that gap.

[Nick Miller]

I just wanted to see what your face did. And you responded, you know, beautifully. I think you have to say yes to discipline. I think there's a bit of a culture that's been deliberately generated not to get sent off, but to have this kind of, you know. Well, Arteta said in March we need to do the dark arts better after they lost at Porto. I think the problem is obviously when you cross the line and just blame others, but rather than recognizing it's perhaps an issue from within. But this whole sort of you versus us culture, it's no bad thing. It can sort of help spur you on to a trophy. But this whole, you know, world hates us. Not necessarily A bad thing. But the whole win at all costs is probably not feasible. I think Arteta probably plays into that with his sort of touchline antics. They feel they can push the boundaries and as a byproduct of that, maybe this is where all the red cards come from.

[Tim Spears]

I put it to you that Arsenal don't really have a disciplinary problem.

[Adam Leventhal]

Okay.

[Tim Spears]

Or at least not a sort of systemic one, because it sounds like the.

[Adam Leventhal]

Premise of an athletic piece that you might have written. Is it?

[Tim Spears]

No, it isn't.

[Adam Leventhal]

No. Okay.

[Tim Spears]

Although it could be.

[Adam Leventhal]

I've commissioned it. Go.

[Tim Spears]

I think that a better indicator of someone having a sort of a team having a systemic discipline problem is number of bookings rather than red cards. I know he said we're not going to kind of litigate all the red cards again, and let's not. But Arsenal have had 18 yellow cards so far this season and only three teams have fewer than them. Everton. I'm quite surprised by this. Everton have had the fewest yellow cards this season with 13. Do you know who has the most with 30?

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah. That's a lot, isn't it?

[Tim Spears]

Yeah. Chelsea. Chelsea have had 30 players booked this season. Now, it might be the case that, as Tim said, this kind of the new win at all cost, Dark Arts, yada, yada, yada thing has resulted in the three red cards that they have. And obviously those three red cards are going to be much more costly than a string of yellow cards might be. But I don't necessarily think that Arsenal do have a. A real disciplinary problem.

[Adam Leventhal]

Okay. That's interesting. So they're not going to have Saliba, Obviously. He was sent off at Bournemouth and I thought. Actually, to be honest, my view. I don't know if you agree or not, but I thought he actually might have been a little bit unlucky with that one. I thought he was. If you compare it with some of the other yellow cards that have been given in similar positions for defenders doing similar things, but that's just my opinion. He's not going to be playing. They've got other defensive doubts, as we know. This is a test of the depth of their squad now, isn't it? Yeah.

[Tim Spears]

It's going to be a proper sort of patchwork defence. Califiori might be out. Timber. Tomiyasu out. It looks like as happened in the second half, I think in midweek. Thomas Partey will play right back, which is kind of. Arteta has done that voluntarily before. Partey played nominally right back against Southampton, and to a point. It makes sense from a tactical point of view because obviously Arsenal like their fullbacks to move into midfield which parties obviously very comfortable doing. But it's still going to be a pretty patchwork defense but still not too bad I think.

[Nick Miller]

You know you bring in Sinchenko, multiple Premier League winner, left back Ben White, very good center half. It's. It's party at right backs. The issue which Liverpool will if he plays there, which Liverpool will look to exploit.

[Adam Leventhal]

So it could be Zinchenko but it could be others. But they certainly need to get it right because whoever it is is going to be up against Mo Salah and he looks like he's on it at the moment, doesn't he?

[Nick Miller]

Yeah, I mean they've got other options. They could play the kid Luis Skelly who's had some minutes recently or Kivior obviously but he would be a bit of a weak link in my opinion. But either way this is the whole point of why it's not an 11 man game anymore. Do you know what I mean? They haven't got too many players out, it's not crisis. So they just going to have to deal with it.

[Adam Leventhal]

Adam, you gotta roll with the punches, haven't you Tim? Haven't you Tim?

[Tim Spears]

Yes.

[Adam Leventhal]

Sorry, is there a delay on the line? Good.

[Nick Miller]

Forgot this was a podcast.

[Adam Leventhal]

It's always good to interact. Let's now interact with the Athletic's Michael Cox on what he noticed at Anfield last weekend. Liverpool obviously beat Chelsea 21 and how Sunday's fixture may compare tactically.

[Michael Cox]

For long periods of Liverpool's 21 victory over Chelsea last weekend, Liverpool didn't quite feel like Liverpool. We're used to them pressing high up the pitch, being very intense, trying to regain possession in the final third. But actually against Chelsea last weekend they stood off. They let Chelsea's defenders have the ball. They focus more on trying to prevent passes from the defenders into the midfielders. That is basically what Arnish slot wants. But it wasn't entirely convincing against Chelsea. Particularly when Malagusto who started at left back but moved inside into central midfield took up some really clever positions between the lions. Chelsea played through Liverpool very easily. Things might be different this weekend against Arsenal. You think of Arsenal as a very good possession based side, able to pass the ball through the center of the pitch very easily. But actually without Martin Erdogard this season they have struggled to do that. And although it wasn't really what everyone was talking about after the two nil defeat at Bournemouth last weekend, Michael Arteta's team selection for that game was very defensive. It was pretty Much four center backs and three holding midfielders. Bakayo Saka will probably be back this weekend and in a way he might play the malo gusto role. Not necessarily in terms of his strict positioning but in terms of going from outside to in and being able to receive diagonal passes through the lines. Liverpool might be a little bit more intense this weekend. After all, last weekend's game was played after an international break and lots of players returned. Probably far from 100% fit. But I do feel like in big games Liverpool will need to show a little bit more intensity to win the ball higher up the pitch and to prevent the opposition playing through midfield quite so easily.

[Adam Leventhal]

So interesting thoughts there from Michael Cox. Obviously mentioning about Bukayo Saka. That'd be great for Arsenal if he is back in the lineup. It may well be a game for Gabriel Martinelli to shine in and it usually is. According to the statistics against Liverpool, seven goal involvements, that's five goals, two assists against Liverpool, his favorite opponents. He forced the the own goal against Shakhtar in midweek and basically he just needs to channel his inner Callum Hudson Odoi against Liverpool. I'm not done at all. Yeah, absolutely. As you predicted, that was the only time that Liverpool have been beaten this season by your own Nottingham Forest. So is there a weakness there off that side for Liverpool? I mean, they're not showing it with the goals that they're conceding at the moment, obviously, which is only a handful.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, three. I think they're on pace to. And they won't do this, but they are on pace to beat Chelsea's famous record for not conceding goals. I don't really think there's anything particularly like, I don't know, structural there. I know people doubt Tretton Alexander Arnold's defensive ability sometimes.

[Adam Leventhal]

Well, you've watched a lot of England. Is that still a concern or has he completely kicked them into touch in.

[Nick Miller]

Terms of his defensive inadequacies? Well, no. If you saw the Finland game recently, albeit he was at left back but he was doing some very basic stuff very badly. So yeah, of course he's got that in him. But. But what you get with Trent is all the other good stuff, which is more important, which balances. Which more than balances out in my opinion.

[Adam Leventhal]

Okay, well, we covered off Arsenal. Next we're going to have a look at Liverpool.

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[Michael Cox]

Is it a stay in or a.

[Adam Leventhal]

Go out kind of Friday night? The choice is yours. Find the detail that moves you with three times points on dining, including takeout from Chase Sapphire Reserve. Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase bank and a member FDSE subject to credit approval terms apply. So there was also one zero win for Liverpool in the Champions League. Just like Arsenal, Liverpool at RB Leipzig. 11 wins from 12 for the first time in the club's history. To start the season, here's James Pearce, our purring Liverpool correspondent.

[Ian Stone]

Liverpool head for the Emirates on Sunday in excellent shape. The caveat before the international break was that Arne Schlotzejeid hadn't really played anyone, that the fixture list had been kind to them. But that no longer applies. They've beaten Chelsea, they've beaten RB Leipzig, who are only off the top of the Bundesliga on goal difference. What struck me most about the win in midweek at The Red Bull arena in Leipzig was just the control they exerted for long periods. And at that stadium was buoyant before the game and early on as Leipzig started pretty positively. But once Darwin Nunes poked Liverpool in front, they really quietened that crowd down and they limited them to very few chances. Yes, it got a little bit ragged late on and Quavin Kelleher had to make a couple of big saves. But this is a Liverpool team that just looks so well drilled, so well coached defensively. Five goals conceded in 12 matches so far, seven clean sheets. No one has scored more than once against Liverpool in a game so far this season. Absolutely mouth watering. What's in store at the Emirates on Sunday? It's Liverpool's biggest test so far, yet they keep on coming up with the answers.

[Adam Leventhal]

They do indeed. James Pearce sounds excited, doesn't he? He sounds like this is going to be another big season for Liverpool. Do you agree with everything that he said there? That this week in particular has sort of. I mean, we don't know what's going to happen in the Champions League longer term, but the win against Chelsea has sort of rubber stamped the fact that they're going to stay the course this season.

[Nick Miller]

Yeah. And it sort of confirms their sort of new identity. For me it was quite, it was quite an unusual game to watch. It was very sort of calm. Anfield was quite quiet. You know, Chelsea came out strong in the second half and Liverpool just shut the game down and they barely created a chance of note after that and just sort of got the job done with minimal fuss. You know, it's very sort of different to the Liverpool we've known in the past. They've managed to create this new identity very quickly and efficiently despite having exactly the same squad. Can't really remember a similar example of that happening in the past. Certainly with one of the, with one of the big teams. It speaks a lot to not just what Slot has done but also I guess the professionalism within the group being able to manage the dressing room themselves and also, you know, not letting their standards drop it all. And the only thing I would say in terms of this, of testing this Liverpool team and what do we know about them is that they've only gone behind once so far in the Premier League this season, which was against his boys and they lost. So it's. They're very, very good at sort of taking the lead and then seeing a game out with sort of exceptional game management. But I'd really like to see an Arsenal. An Arsenal. I'd like to see the Arsenal take the lead the week. I think that'd be. That would be the ultimate test for Liverpool if they can chase the game.

[Tim Spears]

It's quite funny that slot, certainly in the kind of early weeks was doing the whole. Well, I'd be pretty silly if I tried to change too much too radically, wouldn't I? And he's completely changed their kind of style of play. I sort of. I know this is not going to sound like a compliment, but it is a bit of a compliment. They're not very interesting to watch now because they do tend to control games fairly easily.

[Nick Miller]

I have a question for Nick. You know how Liverpool would used to be known as like rock and roll football? Why is it now interesting? I have a take.

[Adam Leventhal]

Why didn't I get asked?

[Nick Miller]

I'm thinking question, either you're the host.

[Tim Spears]

Maybe that, you know, kind of in the early 2000s there was that sort of, you know, chill out, 07. So what. What were you.

[Nick Miller]

I was Also going early 2000s, I was going to say strokes because it's sort of. It's not usually dissimilar because it's the same personnel as before, but they're sort of all in time. They're all very organised and disciplined, but it all works together as a team and it sounds and looks, you know, great.

[Tim Spears]

Quite tight.

[Nick Miller]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Tight, disciplined.

[Tim Spears]

Who's the Liverpool player who looks like he should most be in the Strokes? Simikas.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, I'm just looking at the Strokes now and yeah, Simikas actually looks like one of the members of the Strokes in the picture that I'm looking at.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, you can picture him in sort of skinny jeans and dirty converse and like, you know, those stupid military jackets.

[Nick Miller]

Wonder how much of this is going to make it to the pod.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, we'll find out. In terms of controlling games, going to a, you know, a hot atmosphere, as Liverpool did in Germany this week, it was. It's a good sort of dress rehearsal that they've had in the Champions League for going to Arsenal. We basically just roll it out again. Just go again, lads.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, it was. It was as Kello J alluded to when we heard from him there. It was quite controlled. And again, it wasn't quite. I regretted my decision to watch that game because it wasn't very interesting up until about 10, 15 minutes to go where Keller had to make a couple of saves. Leipzig had a couple of chances. There was, I think it was a Pender right at the end, inexplicably passed when he had a fairly clear shot. On goal. So I suppose if, you know, it's all results based, if Appenda had actually taken a shot and scored there, then we'd be talking very differently about Liverpool's control of the game. But yeah, for the most part they did control it and that's kind of what they will be obviously looking to do against Arsenal.

[Adam Leventhal]

How much of an impact does Jota missing out and Nunez playing instead have on, on Liverpool? Obviously he scored in the, in the Champions League midweek and that's, that's good for him, good for his confidence. Does it, does it alter them as a, as a proper proposition against an Arsenal team in particular or not?

[Nick Miller]

I don't know about against Arsenal but I'm interested to see how Nunes sort of fits into this, this calmer, controlled, disciplined Liverpool team. Yeah, because yeah, as, as, as Nick's reaction suggested, he's quite the opposite. Yes. So yeah, but you need a bit.

[Adam Leventhal]

Of light and shade, don't you?

[Nick Miller]

Maybe, maybe that's exactly what Arne Slot's thinking. But yeah, of course you're going to miss Jota. Apart from Salah, he's their best finisher. But that's why they've got six first choice forwards this season to slot in and rotate as and when. But yeah, it shouldn't impact them too much. I mean Liverpool's numbers are ridiculous. We've gone about their defensive numbers but their attacking numbers are just as good. They've created more XG than anybody else. And yeah, I don't think Jota being out should impact them too much.

[Tim Spears]

I wonder whether, I mean obviously Nunez did play in midweek. I wonder whether with everything we've said about wanting to control it, whether Cody Gakpo will play through the middle. I know broadly speaking when he's come on and when he's played it's been off the left but he can play through the middle. I think he's better off the left but he is a slightly more predictable player than Nunez and that's maybe what they will go for.

[Nick Miller]

Yeah, I think Nunez is a good bench option and you've got Gakpo Salah and Luis Diaz to sort of rotate.

[Tim Spears]

I think working theory that Nunez is actually better off the left as well. He only for Liverpool he's only really played through the middle I think and.

[Nick Miller]

He'S had joy against Arsenal from the left from memory last season.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, he tends to, yeah, tends to play through the middle. But for Benfica, a lot of his, if you watch a lot of his highlights, a lot of the damage he did was kind of coming in off the left. I had a piece in mind for quite a long time about players who are misjudged based on their physiques because he looks like a centre forward but I think he's possibly better off the left hand side.

[Adam Leventhal]

We've mentioned Liverpool's great defensive record a number of times but it is worth just sort of sticking a flag in the fact that they have only conceded three goals in eight games. And Virgil van Dijk, he's had a couple of different partners but him and Konate at the moment, I mean the fact that Keller has come in and done well in the absence of Alisson as well. We, we have to give them some praise for being able to do what they're doing and obviously we'll see at the next international break if those numbers are quite so exceptional when they come up against a whole load of better teams. And this visit in particular against Arsenal is going to be their strongest test, I guess.

[Tim Spears]

Yes, certainly will be. I think it was. I know people spoke a lot about, you know, the Chelsea result being a kind of, you know, a real marker for slot which it kind of was because Chelsea have been much better than we. Well, most people expect at the season but obviously if they. Even if they get a draw at Arsenal, I think then that will be the real kind of. Yeah, maybe this is the real thing.

[Adam Leventhal]

What's going to happen in the game, Tim? Prediction.

[Nick Miller]

Crikey. It's a great question. It's difficult to predict what were the few injuries for Arsenal and we haven't seen Liverpool's slots. Liverpool against the top, top team yet. I reckon Nick thinks it's going to be really boring. It might be a good shout. I don't know.

[Adam Leventhal]

Okay, that's cool. Thanks anyway.

[Tim Spears]

What a run up that was to.

[Nick Miller]

Just say, yeah, dunno, mate, one all then one all.

[Tim Spears]

One all. Ye two, one Liverpool.

[Adam Leventhal]

Thank you very much.

[Nick Miller]

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[Tim Spears]

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[Adam Leventhal]

Right, let's look at the other games this weekend. Manchester City up against Southampton. Well, if Southampton can do what Wolves did last week right up until the last minute, then Southampton might have a chance. The question is, can Southampton do what Wolves did?

[Nick Miller]

Tim, I would say no because Wolves had 22% possession against Manchester City, which is not what Southampton planned to do. So. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still not really over that game, actually. Yeah, it was a weird one when the goal went in 95th minute. I don't think I've ever reacted like this before, but I laughed manically, like a superhero sort of villain kind of thing. I thought it was hilarious because it's just gone beyond funny. Do you know what I mean?

[Tim Spears]

What was the source of this kind of mirthless?

[Nick Miller]

But I guess we've had this horrific, horrific season and then everybody expects us to get walloped by Man City and then we get to 95th minute one all. I was just.

[Adam Leventhal]

Were you alone? Yes.

[Nick Miller]

I wasn't like.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, well, yeah. Obviously neutral side of things. Yeah. You feel sorry for Wolves and. But to be honest, no one was expecting you to get anything anyway, so.

[Nick Miller]

No. And there's a reason. We just move on. No. From Gary O'Neil's point of view, there was a right way to lose that game and I think he's added a little bit more time to his tenure with the way that Wolves performed that day.

[Adam Leventhal]

As for Southampton collapsed after having their moment where they thought they were going to be turning things around against Leicester. I mean, I. I do fear for them going to Manchester City. From a. From a Watford fan who has been to Manchester City and seen aside concede five goals in I think it was 17 minutes and then lose eight nil.

[Nick Miller]

Southampton and the Cup Final. Don't forget that one.

[Adam Leventhal]

The cup final as well. Yeah.

[Nick Miller]

Wow.

[Tim Spears]

Picking at old woods to that point.

[Adam Leventhal]

But they are. I mean, they are capable of completely deconstructing a team that's not very good. And Southampton are showing that they do have significant defensive frailties.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah. You kind of instinctively think given maybe this is just. Given that Southampton have conceded nine goals in two games in relatively recent history. But you sort of. You wonder whether this could be the game. This could be the double figures game. Finally.

[Adam Leventhal]

No. Really?

[Tim Spears]

Wow.

[Nick Miller]

I was going to say the opposite. My hot take is they'll do better against the better team. I think they'll enjoy themselves.

[Tim Spears]

Interesting.

[Nick Miller]

Yeah. I don't think they're pretty close in against Arsenal. They lost 1 nil to Newcastle. You know, the signs are there.

[Adam Leventhal]

The signs are there.

[Nick Miller]

No, no, no. I think they've got a good performance in them.

[Adam Leventhal]

Let's hope that maybe Southampton can run Manchester City as close as. As bottom of the lot Wolves did who still only have one point. Aston Villa are in fourth currently top of the Champions League. They take on Bournemouth. How impressed have you been with how Aston Villa have dealt so far? And it's sort of creeping on and on and on that they are dealing with the pressure of Champions League and league.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, it was really impressive how they kind of. Obviously the thing that. The correct question that people have been asking about how they would deal with the Premier League so with the Champions League is the depth of their squad. But they made quite a few changes and not all enforced changes for the Champions League in midweek and still won. So that was kind of really impressive. I know the changes didn't even necessarily weaken the starting lineup. John Durant played Ollie Watkins and people have been wondering what he would do if he had a starting chance at some point. So it wasn't quite like he was resting players. You know, we'll knock off this easy game in Europe and then get. Get onto the proper business of the Premier League kind of thing. But it was pretty impressive how they. They did manage to kind of make these changes and not really seem to suffer for it. So this all bodes well. It was obviously good for them that had John McGinn back and it will change if they have a few more injuries to key players. But that was all really encouraging.

[Adam Leventhal]

Brighton are in fifth and they've got a chance to consolidate that position because they are taking on. On Wolves, I guess. Yeah, they just have to sort of turn up. Turn up and. Well, no, but it'll be interesting to see the. The opposition that Brighton face. Whether Wolves will be able to sort of pick themselves up off the. Off the ground after that late defeat.

[Nick Miller]

Yeah, I guess. So in. In the eyes of Wolves fans, this is sort of the last of the tough fixtures before they get really. Yeah. We're all waiting for palace at home.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah. Which is the day before.

[Nick Miller]

The day before Gary Neal's gonna get sacked probably more likely than anything rather than the day the season starts.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah.

[Nick Miller]

So yeah, no, it's. It's. It's the last game I would want as a Wolves fan, which I am. Is Brighton away? I got a. Not got the best record there. Lost 60 there a couple of years ago and Brighton just look Sumptuous. Well, yeah, it's going to be another season of how do they do it?

[Adam Leventhal]

Behind Brighton in fifth, Chelsea will be hoping obviously to get back on track after defeat at Anfield, take on Newcastle. Do we feel that Chelsea, out of those two sides are more likely to be really genuinely challenging for the top five? Maybe four?

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, they obviously lost to Brighton last time. I just don't think. I'm not really sure what it is that's the problem. They've got some injuries. I don't think Anthony Gordon's been quite as good as he was last season. He has had to play in a slightly unfamiliar position due to those injury problems.

[Adam Leventhal]

He's been getting chances but not taking them.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, I don't know whether footballers are quite. They're quite delicate sometimes, aren't they? The idea, if you kind of said, well, the reason this guy isn't playing as well as he was before is that he's playing like 15 yards further to the right than he usually does. That doesn't sound, you know, you'd sort of give him a slap around the face and tell him to pull himself together. But it is a kind of issue that it's just a completely different role that he's playing and it clearly is whether that is the main problem, whether he's just going through some poor form. But yeah, he's not been as good as he was last season.

[Nick Miller]

Well, I think they're a bit over reliant on him. Isaac's not the player he was last season at all.

[Adam Leventhal]

Well, he's just come back.

[Nick Miller]

Yeah, of course. Missed a couple of good chances last weekend, but they're a bit imbalanced because on the right side they've got Murphy or Almiron, neither of whom are really pulling up any trees. So this is the sort of after effects of their poor summer and not being able to sign any players. This is what's going to happen.

[Adam Leventhal]

Playing an unfamiliar role in the table, I think you could say is Crystal palace because they are really struggling at the moment. Third from bottom, they take on Spurs. Are you feeling that palace are going to get out of this or are they in there for the long run in this relegation scrap?

[Nick Miller]

Who are you worried about earlier? Southampton. I'm worried about Crystal Palace.

[Adam Leventhal]

Are you?

[Nick Miller]

Yeah. I think they're going through a bit of an identity crisis. Every team's got to have an identity in 2024. I don't know what theirs is really. They've stopped dribbling. They don't dribble anymore. They don't take any players on.

[Adam Leventhal]

They've been shooting lots of shots from distance.

[Nick Miller]

Lots of shots distance. They've lost Elise, obviously a huge blow and Wharton is out of money. Surgery. I was reading the other day, which isn't good because it seemed like they're designing their whole game plan around him in terms of controlling the midfield and playing through balls. So, yeah, without those players and without a good summer again of recruitment and doing things like playing Eddie and Ketia on the wing and Nathaniel Klein at left wing back, I saw the other week, it's all a bit of a mess and Glasner doesn't seem too happy. Right.

[Adam Leventhal]

So he hasn't cut a happy figure all season.

[Nick Miller]

No. And he's kind of criticized the players a little bit and said, oh, they might have thought this was going to be an easy season because of the way that they finished last season. So, yeah, none of it bodes well.

[Adam Leventhal]

Manchester United, they're down in 12th, up against West Ham in 15th. Obviously Manchester United bumped into Jose Mourinho in, in midweek and it was all pretty sort of low key. Nothing, nothing really happened with him. Both sides in terms of the Premier League action, just one win in seven. And let's just quickly check in with Andy Mitten, Karl Anker speaking to Ian Irving on our Manchester United pod. Talk of the Devils.

[Nick Miller]

I don't have that much confidence in Manchester United at the moment. I'm sorry. I mean, I know there are injuries, but again, it's a team which struggles to score. I keep hoping the team will turn the corner.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah. West Ham 1 winning 7. Manchester United 1 winning 7. United have to win, if only because we joke about this, about the crisis baton, about how every week, every weekend, one Premier League club is in crisis. And it really does feel that whoever loses this game, they're going to be in the hot seat for however long. And I think 10 Hag will absolutely want to get a positive performance here. So maybe some of that worrisome question marks can be turned over to Lopetega instead of onto him.

[Adam Leventhal]

I wanted to ask you about the crisis baton, Tim, because I see both of these sides holding the crisis baton and even if they win, they might sort of still have it in their arms in a couple of weeks time.

[Nick Miller]

Well, United are either in crisis or trying not to be in crisis and never far from crisis. They're just constantly swimming against the tide. And even Brentford last week they went one nil down and yeah, sure, good comeback win, but. And then in midweek, okay, you know, they didn't beat Fenerbahce, who they. Who they should be beating. And yet people think it's a. It's a good point. Fenbach away. Well, no, they still don't win in Europe yet. They haven't won in Europe for a year. Incredible. So, no, I think if they lose this, they're back firmly in crisis mode again. Yeah. But I don't really see. West Ham are at home here, but I don't really see them as being capable of beating many teams at the moment. They're in crisis too, Adam.

[Tim Spears]

If we're all adopting a team that we're concerned about, then I'm going to take West Ham.

[Nick Miller]

Yeah.

[Tim Spears]

Because they seem to find new and interesting ways to be hilariously calamitous. Last weekend, the method of imploding was go ahead and then concede three goals in eight minutes, I think it was. And then get a man sent off for slapping multiple opponents around the face.

[Nick Miller]

Which the referee was. Referee was almost slapped by Kuris and still didn't send him off. He needed four whole minutes for that to be deemed a red card. It was absolutely ludicrous. Slapped two players. The ref saw it.

[Adam Leventhal]

West Ham strike me as a team that maybe in a couple of months with a different manager might be heading in the right direction.

[Nick Miller]

They've got these deeper systemic issues where they've got Tim Steiden signing players who Julen Lopetegui isn't playing. So, you know, Somerville's been on the bench, Mark Saleh hasn't played full. Kruger knows been injured, but question mark's over whether he's the right fit for the money they're paid for a 31 year old. So, yeah, there's a lot of deep issues there and a lot of unhappy fans. I think, you know, you give Lopetega 18 months and a couple of transfer windows and he'll sort them out, but might not get that long.

[Adam Leventhal]

Two other games. Quick mentions on Everton against Fulham. Obviously Everton have a bigger test this weekend than they did against Ipswich, who looked a little bit like relegated scrappers last week against Everton and sort of uncharacteristic defensive mistakes as well. Do you see Everton sort of pulling away now? You see them safe for this season?

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, I think this will be a sort of Fairly stodgy maybe 2 nil win for Everton. I don't think they'll be particularly good, but there are also much worse teams.

[Adam Leventhal]

In the division than them and Ipswich go to Brentford. If it was Ipswich against Brentford, you might back them because Brentford can't win Away. But Brentford at home is a tough proposition for any. Anyone.

[Nick Miller]

Yeah, they've got a really good home record. Stuck five past my boys the other week.

[Adam Leventhal]

I mean, that's just a false economy if you base it on that, isn't it?

[Nick Miller]

That was like the laugh I did when Man City scored. I'm going to this game actually.

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[Nick Miller]

I'm looking forward to it. Looking forward to seeing Ipswich, I think. I think. I think there's more to them than meets the eye and I think they had a good summer window. And again, it's about blood in some of their.

[Adam Leventhal]

Like they were spending money like it was going out of fashion this week.

[Nick Miller]

Yeah. And I just. I think they're one of those that just need a bit of time for all that to gel and there's more to come from them and I don't think they're certs for relegation. I think they'll be sort of here and there.

[Adam Leventhal]

Quick one on that then. Who are your bottom three? Who's going down?

[Nick Miller]

Oh, well, God, quickly you said. I still think Leicester will go down. I think Southampton will go down. And Crystal Palace.

[Adam Leventhal]

Oh, Palace.

[Tim Spears]

Really?

[Adam Leventhal]

There's no team in there. Okay, so Wolves aren't going down. Good. They're going to make a miraculous recovery. Your bottom three.

[Tim Spears]

That's quite tedious because I think that might be my bottom three as well.

[Nick Miller]

Although this makes a lot of sense. I've always said that.

[Adam Leventhal]

No, I think that's interesting that both of you have palace to go down because that would be quite a big story, I think for Crystal palace to go down from the Premier League.

[Nick Miller]

Don't know where the goals come from. They're just all a bit confused at the moment, I think. And they're still the best defender as well to a mid table rival, which is very silly.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, it was a bit odd for that to happen. That's it for this week. Thank you very much to Tim.

[Nick Miller]

Cheers.

[Adam Leventhal]

And to Nick.

[Tim Spears]

Thank you.

[Adam Leventhal]

And don't forget, you can check out the whole range of Athletic podcasts from the Daily Briefing. You've got the Totally football show. All of the shows throughout the week, of course, on the Athletic F scene. We've got all our club pods as well. Thank you very much for listening, for watching on YouTube as do send us your suggestions and your comments and we will be back on Monday. Have a lovely weekend everyone. Take care. You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast.

[Nick Miller]

The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beal.

[Adam Leventhal]

The executive producer was Aylie Moorhead.

[Nick Miller]

To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places.

[Adam Leventhal]

The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company product.

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[Nick Miller]

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[Tim Spears]

Hey guys.

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Welcome to Giggly Squad, a place where.

[Adam Leventhal]

We make fun of everything, but most importantly ourselves.

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I'm Paige Desorbo.

[Nick Miller]

I'm Hannah Berner.

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Welcome to the Squad.

[Adam Leventhal]

Giggly Squad started on Summer House when we were giggling during an inappropriate time.

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But of course we can't be managed.

[Adam Leventhal]

So we decided to start this podcast. To continue giggling.

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We will make fun of pop culture news. We're watching fashion trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games and guests.

[Adam Leventhal]

Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nick Miller]

Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast. Com.