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- [00:03]
Adam Leventhal
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- [00:56]
Tim Spears
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [01:06]
Adam Leventhal
Hi there, I'm Adam Leventhal. Welcome to the preview on the Athletic fc. Focusing this week on the big one on Sunday, Arsenal against Manchester City. And we'll also set you up for all the other key fixtures this weekend. Joining me today are the Athletics football writer Tim Spears. How are you, Tim?
- [01:29]
Sam Lee
Good to see you, Adam.
- [01:30]
Adam Leventhal
You've had a busy week, haven't you?
- [01:31]
Sam Lee
Had a busy week watching lots of the Champions League. Enjoyed that at the same time. Yeah, I watched 18 games on one evening. Never done that before.
- [01:38]
Adam Leventhal
Are you still a bit frazzled?
- [01:39]
Sam Lee
Never going to do it again? Never going to do it again? No, absolutely not. It's horrible.
- [01:42]
Adam Leventhal
Good, good, yeah. Let's focus on the Premier League if that's all right. We've got our Manchester City writer, Sam Lee here. How are you, Sam?
- [01:49]
James McNicholas
Hello. Yeah, good, thank you. Very good.
- [01:51]
Adam Leventhal
Excellent. Good to have you on board alongside our Arsenal writer. We're going sort of head to head. A bit of a red line debate on this one. Our arsenal writer, James McNicholas. How are you?
- [02:01]
Tim Spears
Very well guys, thanks for having me on.
- [02:02]
Adam Leventhal
Excellent. It is good to have you here with us. Obviously we are focusing on Arsenal against Manchester City. It is on Sunday. It is second. Hosting fourth. The reverse fixture in September, which was the fifth game on of the season, was a cracker. City were top. Arsenal was second at that point. City went one up. Arsenal then turned it around. They were leading two one all the way until the last minute with 10 men as well before John Stones rescued a point for City. Then we had our heated scenes at full time. And James, on that note, some are calling it the stay humble derby. For people who don't know why it is called that. Just refresh our memories, please.
- [02:45]
Tim Spears
Oh, well, they were the words of Erling Haaland, weren't they? After full time to Mikhail Arteta, urging him to stay humble. And I think since then they've become a bit of a meme as Man City's form tailed off, shall we say. And I think Erling was probably very frequently reminded over all forms of social media that perhaps he should stay humble too.
- [03:04]
Adam Leventhal
Yes, quite. It was a bit of a curse of staying humble because Haaland only scored what, three in 13 Premier League games after that? He did score four in Europe during that period and for a time it did look like he'd got a little bit above his station, didn't it, Sam? But things are a bit more rosy in his garden now.
- [03:24]
James McNicholas
You never know with City. Well, I mean you do often know with City, but right now you don't. Obviously he was good last weekend against Chelsea and City were good, but that was only a few days after the PSG game when PSG kind of wiped the floor with them. And then they were all right at times and not so all right against clubrugia the night. So Haaland's goal seemed to be one constant. The performances are basically the same. How much you get of the good stuff and how much you get of the bad stuff, that's what changes. It's just game to game with City at the minute. See how they get on this week and then go to the next one and see what happens there.
- [03:54]
Adam Leventhal
Tim, on this, I wanted to just a little bit of a sense check from you because you have a wonderful Premier League moral compass, don't you? Arsenal with 47 points in second, six points off Liverpool. City with 41 points in fourth. If City win, are they back in the title race or is that a complete stab in the dart?
- [04:16]
Sam Lee
No, I don't think they would be. I think even if City won and Liverpool lost this weekend, still be nine points between them. But Liverpool have got the game in hand.
- [04:25]
Adam Leventhal
But what about momentum, Tim?
- [04:27]
Sam Lee
What about momentum? Well, City haven't had it for a while and there are no signs that they're about to go and win 10 in a row. I think there's probably an acceptance from City that the title is gone. There are only 14 games left after this. If they're 12 points off, you just can't see them doing it. So yeah, I think the Chapters League has to be their target. I mean they could be back down to seventh again this weekend. So let's not get carried away.
- [04:49]
Adam Leventhal
Can't we?
- [04:50]
Sam Lee
No, we can't. I don't think so. But I feel like Arsenal need this if they. You can sort of feel a level of desperation there, which maybe comes out in all this sort of referee and stuff. If they lose this, they're only three points ahead of City, which, given their respective seasons, would not reflect too well on Arsenal. So, yeah, it's a more important game for Arsenal to win, I would say.
- [05:11]
Adam Leventhal
Well, let's give James the floor then, because Tim's just sort of been giving you a little bit of jip, I think, since the blip. Against Newcastle, against Manchester United, four wins in five in all competitions. This feels like a pivotal game and a pivotal week as well. With that second leg of the EFL semi final coming up too. Are you feeling under pressure as a sort of. As a fan? First and foremost?
- [05:38]
Tim Spears
It's a big week, definitely. I think it's a big weekend in the context of the Premier League as well. You look at Liverpool, they're away to Bournemouth on Saturday. I think that's, you know, a tough game for them. If they drop points there and Arsenal are able to beat City and close the gap, I do think it will change the complexion of their season equally if Liverpool go and win at Bournemouth. I think almost, whatever the outcome at the Etihad, Arsenal will feel a bit deflated by that. The Carabao cup semifinal is next week. Wednesday at St. James's they're two nil down. I think, you know, after that first leg, I considered that tie all but over. Bournemouth going up there and absolutely hammering them at St James has given me a little bit of hope, you know, if they can do it, why not Arsenal? But it is a huge week and great to qualify from the Champions League to finish in the top eight, to finish third in that table. I think the European campaign is going swimmingly. Domestically, less so and, you know, whatever Arsenal do, I just think so much is dependent on Liverpool. We mentioned that lead with reference to Manchester City. It looks unassailable for City. It's doable for Arsenal, but it needs something to start changing. Right. It needs more weekends where Liverpool drop points and Arsenal take up that opportunity.
- [06:46]
Adam Leventhal
Hopefully this could be one Sam on City since nine defeats in 13 and that spell that everyone but City fans was quite enjoying. City are six wins out of eight in all competitions. And it was interesting. It was suggested on another podcast that Pep Guardiola during that period was talking to managers and saying, I wish I had your team. I wish I had your team. And was sort of falling out of love with his own team. The sort of state of play of how Pep is feeling at the moment. Can you. Can you sort of sum that up?
- [07:19]
James McNicholas
Realistic? I asked him the other day. There's so much space in the middle for teams to counter attack into, which is obviously something that he looks to avoid at all times. But City have still got this ability to generate momentum and just like scare teams off. Like, if you give them space, they can really hurt you as well, obviously, with Haaland and De Bruyne and Edison's long balls. And now they've got Marmouche for the runs in behind and maybe Savinho as well. And he's. He said we're an old team. They were his words. And he mentioned De Bruyne and Gundel when he said they're 34, 33. He said Kovacic is the same. Kovacic is only 30, but he is very much spiritually the same in terms of the legs and the mobility. He's probably the most mobile option, but he's just not a holding midfielder on his own. So Guardiola just knows, as he's known from the start of this bad run, the limitations of the team. He just wants his own team back. He wants all the players back. He said that all along. And obviously Rodri is a big miss, but there's way more to it than just Rodri being injured. So Guardiola just wants his players back. I can't imagine he'd fall out of love with his own team. As long as they're trying and giving the effort, which I think they have done all the way through. They've not been good enough, but they tried. And I think as long as they're doing that, Guardiola is going to appreciate them. But he just wants people like Dias back and Stones back long term and Ake back so he can have a bit of a respite in defense, try and make things a bit more solid. Because the midfield is a Basque case, basically. So as long as the attack's doing something, the defense is pretty strong. They might be able to get through and get top four at the end of the season. That's pretty much the expectation.
- [08:54]
Adam Leventhal
James. On the topic of discipline, obviously, in that game in September, Leandro Trossard was sent off for kicking the ball away, his second yellow card. Just a quick check on that. Considering what happened with Declan Rice, considering what happened with Trossard, when other players kick the ball away in games against Arsenal and don't get get booked, are you more up in arms about that than anything.
- [09:20]
Tim Spears
I think it's a real source of frustration for Arsenal fans. You know, that was a classic case of a directive being in place at the start of the season and it being enforced at that point in time and not so much enforced now. I've lost count the amount of games I've been to at Emirates Stadium, where an opposition play has kicked the ball away and the fans have all been on the referee's back demanding that yellow card. And it hasn't always come to pass. I think most Arsenal fans can tell you to the millisecond how long after the whistle, Leandro Trossard booted that ball. And I think that incident plays into a narrative that has built up among the Arsenal fans about this being a season where things haven't quite gone for them. You know, people on the outside will have their own views about whether or not that's fair or realistic, but certainly that seems to be the sentiment among the Arsenal supporters that I speak to, is that this has been a year where, you know, things haven't quite fallen in Arsenal's favor. And I think compounding that really is kind of the frustration of this being a year where City aren't there running away with it at the top of the table. And it's felt like after a couple of years of being really in the thick of the title race, it should be Arsenal's year. And the frustration of it looking like it might not be and Liverpool taking their place effectively, I think Arsenal fans collectively feel like, ah, that should be us. And it all contributes to this feeling of things just not quite going for them. If they beat City this weekend and Liverpool drop points and, you know, suddenly the title race looks more realistic, maybe that mood could change.
- [10:44]
Adam Leventhal
On the topic of discipline, Tim, because you sort of teased it a little bit earlier on, I can sense you want to get your teeth stuck into this. Previous three games that Arsenal went down to 10 men, including that game against Manchester City. Also Brighton and Bournemouth, they conceded a goal. Afterwards, they picked up four red cards this season, including in their last Premier League games when Miles Louis Skelly was sent off that first and foremost. Just a quick answer. That was rightly overturned, wasn't it, against Wolves?
- [11:15]
Sam Lee
Yeah, it was. I could see why he gave it at the time. I don't understand the opera against Michael Oliver. Well, I mean, when I saw it, I was furious. It's the most deliberate, cynical foul you can do, really. And then you add on the fact that in real time, Oliver probably sees him take out his calf, really. Whereas it's the Var that's so ridiculous about this because it was immediately obvious on a slow mo replay that it was his booty he really caught contact with. So, yeah, I can understand why Oliver gave it. But yeah, of course it was the right decision to overturn it.
- [11:46]
Adam Leventhal
Do you think the fact that they did get a player sent off in this game and then went on to win the game, albeit against very weak opposition, do you think that that will give them some confidence?
- [11:57]
Sam Lee
See, absolutely right to say that because wolves are. Wolves are, you know, possibly relegated, but it's the fact that you smirk when you say it. You're trying to poke me, but of.
- [12:06]
Adam Leventhal
Course I'm poking you.
- [12:06]
Sam Lee
Of course wolves are.
- [12:07]
Adam Leventhal
We haven't been in each other's sort of physical company for quite some time.
- [12:11]
Sam Lee
I haven't missed it.
- [12:12]
Adam Leventhal
No, I'm sure you haven't.
- [12:14]
Sam Lee
Yeah, no. I said on the pod last week that Chelsea beating Wolves wasn't necessarily going to bring Chelsea back into form. I said it when Everton beat Wolves 40 a few weeks ago. You know, beating Wolves is not an achievement at the moment, albeit, yeah, went down to 10 men. I mean, it wasn't the best game to watch. I thought if you can't beat Wolves without Larson who'd gone off injured and Kuna, who's off form, then, you know, you are struggling. But yeah, full credit to Arsenal who didn't lose their heads after the red. I think that was the key point. They all would have seen it at halftime. Massive injustice. But they didn't lose there. They kept disciplined, stuck to their tasks and got a hard fought 10 win. There are big issues for Arsenal that this win didn't sort of mask that things that they'll have to fix if they're going to win the title. But yeah, on its day it was a really important win.
- [13:00]
Adam Leventhal
I just wanted to get both Sam and James opinion on the transfer window. We'll talk about the tactics in a minute. City have sort of casually just dropped 125 odd million on three players that aren't necessarily going to be key elements of the squad. But in terms of the business that has been done and what might still be done. Sam, what's your feeling?
- [13:20]
James McNicholas
Well, Mahmou should help them straight away with Kusunov and Hayes. There's two conversations with those two. They're not really going to help right now, but the club obviously believes they can in the future because if you look and they signed Juma Bar from Valladolid that's not the same thing. Juma Bay is not considered a City player this season or next, but those guys, they will at some point. Obviously, Kusnov had a bit of a shocker, to put it mildly, against Chelsea. He's not as bad as that, but he is raw and I didn't expect him to play too much anyway. But they are more for the future and City decided that because their form was so bad, the injury situation was so bad going into December, they needed to do the business. They've got the money to spend because they've not spent too much over the last few years, considering how much they bring in. So the old net spend tables and all that. Guardiola keeps saying they're 11th in terms of net spend over the last five years, and that's around Europe, like top European sides. I think in the Premier league, they're like 20th out of 25 teams that have been in the Premier League over the last five years. So they're bringing a load of money and now they're spending it. But I've just said they decided they need to strengthen the squad and they recognize that. But I also said earlier the midfield's a basket case, like they need to sort something out. Douglas Luiz is, I think, the top player they've been looking at for midfield. Window closes on Monday. There's not been an awful lot of information on that. We all know it's difficult for City players to kind of thrive in their first season, so even if they did sign somebody now, it's not as if it's going to definitely help them out. But Douglas Louise was at City, played at Girona, played at the Premier League for Villa. Guardiola personally attended his visa hearing in 2019, but he didn't get the visa. So that's why you had to loan him out. So they know enough about him and if they could get him in, then I think it just helps as an extra, a body through the door, as the cliche goes. They have made steps to improve the squad. Mostly that's going to come to fruition in the future, but they definitely need to do something in midfield.
- [15:13]
Adam Leventhal
So City have done a little bit of tinkering, which is seen as sort of semi necessary right now. James Arsenal and the noise in terms of the lack of transfer activity is arguably deafening. Is it becoming a distraction? And do you see those ears being eased over the weekend?
- [15:33]
Tim Spears
I really hope so. I think, you know Arsenal, everyone knows Arsenal need something in attack. They've lost Picard Saka to injury. They've lost Gabriel Jesus for this season and beyond. So they look very light up there. I'm sure everyone listening will have seen in the week the stories about Arsenal's interest in Ollie Watkins. That would have been a really interesting move, you know, because I think he's obviously Premier League, proven Premier League ready. I'm sure he would have hit the ground running and scored a few goals. Long term, was it, you know, a great deal? Financially, I'm not so sure, but it's a tough market for forwards. There's not a ton out there, and I think the fact that Arsenal went for Watkins kind of shows what Arteta's thinking. He's looking for someone who can make an instant impact. And when you look around the continent, who wants to move in January or can move in January, that can make that kind of impact. It's not easy to come up with too many names. Time is running short. Obviously, they'll all be very focused on the game against City this weekend, but I'd like to think in the background, the sporting director and others will be working hard on getting a forward in, because I think if they don't, you know, they're going all right in the Premier League, they're going very well in the Champions League. I think it's very difficult to see either of those campaigns come into fruition without some sort of addition in Attack.
- [16:48]
Lauren Dragan
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- [17:18]
Ian McIntosh
Hey, it's Lauren Dragan from Wirecutter, the product recommendation service from the New York Times. And I test headphones. Sweat is actually conductive because of the saline content in it. So we basically make our own fake sweat and spray it over and over on these headphones to see what happens to them over time. This is 85 decibels of airplane noise. We're gonna put on some noise canceling headphones and see how well they actually block out the sound. Put them on the ground and kick them over there.
- [17:44]
Sam Lee
Okay, go.
- [17:48]
Ian McIntosh
Are they broken?
- [17:49]
Sam Lee
No.
- [17:49]
Ian McIntosh
I have 3,136 entries in my database. Kids workout running. Does it have a connector That's Lightning or USB C. What version of Bluetooth is it? Does it have fxhd? We have ones that track your. At Wirecutter we the work so you don't have to. For independent product reviews and recommendations for the real world, come Visit us@nytimes.com Wirecutter we even have one that's solar powered.
- [18:15]
Adam Leventhal
So we were talking about transfers before the break. Let's talk about the tactical side of things. Tim, I'll start with you. Where do you see both sides hurting each other on Sunday?
- [18:27]
Sam Lee
I mean, City have clearly got more sort of weaknesses than Arsenal right now. Still got a very soft center as Sam's outlined. You know, massive midfield issues, vulnerable defensively, individual errors still being made, players still out form. I mean, obviously Arsenal's sort of biggest weakness of late to me seem to be, you know, creating chances in open play. In certain matches they've been, you know, sort of over reliant on set pieces. Obviously they miss Saka, Obviously they miss a consistent, you know, goal scorer. So maybe those weaknesses cancel each other out perhaps a little bit. I think if we're looking individually, if Matthias Nunes plays it right back, then that's an obvious area for Arsenal to exploit. Martinelli's had a bit of joy against City in the past. I think you. I think you look at that area of the field, but, you know, Arsenal have got to be pretty strong favorites. You know, City's form in general, apart from doing the double over Chelsea, they've barely beaten a decent team since August. You know, it's going back a long way. You know, they sort of. They beat Forest, didn't they, before Christmas, and Fulham, but other than that, Sam will correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think they're beating a team in the top half of the Premier League and the teams they beat in the Champions League were all pretty sort of weak, you know, Sparta Park Club, Bruges, Sloven, Bratislava. I think those are the three that they beat Watford in the Carabao Cup. Dreadful team.
- [19:42]
Adam Leventhal
Awful.
- [19:43]
Sam Lee
See, I can do it as well. So, yeah, so you'd have to say, you know, that their weaknesses have been shown up time and again.
- [19:49]
Adam Leventhal
Cut you off there, Tim. Sam, in terms of what Tim has said there, he's on the right track, isn't he, in terms of what City have been doing. But I wanted to check with you, what are they doing better now? Let's give them a little bit of praise. What are they doing better now on the hole than they were during that run? Where they were losing game after game.
- [20:12]
James McNicholas
Tricky. So against Chelsea, Chelsea gave them loads of space. Chelsea obviously recognized that City were vulnerable. And I went, okay, we're just gonna, we're just gonna go super press second half. But City went, okay, well, we'll, we'll put the ball over the top. And like I said, when they've got Harland and also, you know, they've got food and players like Savinho and De Bruyne, when they can run, they can be dangerous as well. So that's what they did well in that game against Ipswich, to be fair, that was probably the most like a normal City performance. It wasn't like they had loads of space to run into, but they were winning the ball back high up the pitch. It's. It was like a throwback performance from, you know, Gundogan and De Bruyne and Bernardo Silva. But the caveat was it was Ipswich, obviously. So, like, what they've been doing better recently? It's hard to say because even when they beat Bruges the other night, Bruges had so many counterattacks, but City were just more clinical. That's why I said at the start, we kind of know what to expect. It just depends how much of the good stuff and how much of the bad. Arsenal can have a load of counter attacks, but if they don't score, maybe Haaland gets a penalty or a back post header or some. Something like that, and maybe that's the difference. But in terms of this game, because of all the, the things that Tim just outlined and what I've said earlier, like whenever Guardiola's normally got doubts about his team and big games like this again the other night when he said they were an old team, he said, that's why I'm scared to play counter attack against teams like Arsenal Villa, Brighton, Liverpool, everyone, he said, because they're much better. So he's going to want to try and make the game as tight and kind of dull as possible. And obviously Arteta's inclination in the last, last few City, Arsenal games just been to do the same as well. That's what it was at the Emirates last season. So it wouldn't surprise me tactically if that's what we're going to get. Again, in terms of the approach, do you agree, James?
- [21:55]
Adam Leventhal
Do you think that that's the way that the Arteta will play?
- [21:58]
Tim Spears
It's always that probability. As Sam says, a lot of the games have been very tight, very tactical, very positional. Kind of the sort of chess match you might expect between Guardiola and Arteta. And this fixture last season was decided by a deflection in the end, really a stroke of luck that gave Arsenal the win of a Gabriel Martinelli shot. I do think this is a slightly different City, maybe more a more vulnerable city. So I hope Arsenal are perhaps a bit more front footed than they have been in some of the recent fixtures between these two teams. But at the same time in saying that they don't have a fully powered attack, you know, so without Bukayo Saka there, can they be as front footed, can they be as effective, can they be as dangerous? I'm not sure. I think the onus is on Arsenal to win this game. You know, they are favourites, but it's also a game they probably need to win in terms of the title race. Looking at their, you know, their home fixtures of games they've got to get three points from. So I hope they attack it and take a bit more impetus into it than they have done in some of these recent fixtures. Because I think there's evidence this year that if you do that against City, you might profit.
- [23:04]
Adam Leventhal
I just wanted to end this part of the chat where we started on Arsenal City. Tim, from your point of view, will it be beef between the teams or tactics that wins?
- [23:15]
Sam Lee
Will Beef win?
- [23:17]
Adam Leventhal
Will Beef win?
- [23:19]
Sam Lee
That's a good question to ask, isn't it? Yeah, I hope so, yeah. We all want a bit of beef, don't we? Want a bit beef? Yeah, we want Gabriel, you know, chucking the ball off Haaland's head and Havertz telling Foden to stay humble, you know. Yeah, no, it's good. The Premier League needs this, these big rivalries between the top club. So, yeah, I'd hope for more of the same. I do worry it's going to be a really boring game like as Sam has suggested. Sorry, but no, hopefully not. Hopefully Beef breaks out.
- [23:43]
Adam Leventhal
As a vegan, I actually do want Beef on Sunday, which is weird for me to say. Right, let's get your predictions. James, let's start with you. Home team, come on.
- [23:54]
Tim Spears
I think Arsenal will win. I'm going to say two now.
- [23:56]
Adam Leventhal
Oh, gutsy. Like it, Sam?
- [24:02]
James McNicholas
Yeah, I think Arsenal might win. My prediction to James before we started recording this was that the game would be dull and controversial. So we might get the dull game, we might get the beef as well. And if both managers strive to keep it close, then maybe Arsenal nick it on a set piece, because that's another thing that City aren't particularly good at defending set pieces. So Maybe it's something like that. That's what I'm thinking.
- [24:25]
Adam Leventhal
So score a one, Nila.
- [24:27]
James McNicholas
Oh, a score. Yeah, one nil.
- [24:28]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, one nil. And Tim, I think we go for a draw. Oh, another one.
- [24:33]
Sam Lee
Yeah, I think pep's gonna bore the arse off everyone. In contrast to what Arteta's done in the past. Yeah, we'll go one all.
- [24:40]
Adam Leventhal
Good of you to drop arse on the podcast. Thank you very much indeed. Let's see if it's possible to edit that out. James and Sam, you're gonna leave us. Fly away, Peter. Fly away, Paul. Take care. Have a lovely weekend.
- [24:51]
James McNicholas
Nice one.
- [24:52]
Adam Leventhal
Bye.
- [24:52]
Sam Lee
Bye.
- [24:52]
Adam Leventhal
Bye, guys. And Tim, we're gonna be back talking about the rest of the games next. So it's just me and you now, Tim going head to head across this desk to talk about the. The rest of the games. Are you ready?
- [25:10]
Sam Lee
Lucky me.
- [25:11]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah. So we've got six games on Saturday, including Bournemouth in seventh hosting the leaders, Liverpool. Let's check in first before I get your take with Simon Hughes on our Liverpool pod. Walk on ahead of that one.
- [25:25]
H
I like the way they play, you know, the more aggressive, more attacking than say Nottingham Forest. I think that showed at the weekend. I mean, they cut them open time again and on this occasion, you know, the Forest keeper didn't save them. Play with good width as well. I can understand why Liverpool might be interested in one or two of the players. You know, there's been talk about Kirk, who looks like a really good player to me. Semenyo, He's a player that I really like. I like his story as well. Somebody who's developed quite late, but he's a real handful. So they're a good side and it's going to be a tough game for Liverpool. Justin Clive has been excellent, so they're not to be underestimated. But that says, you know, a Liverpool team, which is confidence. I would always back them to go and get a good result at Bournemouth.
- [26:12]
Adam Leventhal
What did Bournemouth do going into this one then, Tim? Do they do exactly what they did against Forest? Just go, go all for it against Liverpool, or do they have to be a bit more pragmatic?
- [26:22]
Sam Lee
No, I think they have to get Liverpool on the back foot. I think they'll be looking to win it. I mean, the way that they dismantled Forest was so impressive. I mean, Forest don't lose like that. Nuno's teams don't lose like that. No. That's a joint heaviest defeat of his career. He hasn't lost by five goals since he was Like Rio Ave manager. It's like pre turn 14. So yeah, to dismantle a team that is happy to sit deep and not have the ball was so impressive. I'm gutted. This isn't on telly to be honest. We all wanted to watch Bournemouth Forest last week.
- [26:51]
Adam Leventhal
It may well be around the world.
- [26:54]
Sam Lee
It's true. Yeah. But there are five games on this weekend. I can see why Bournemouth Forest wasn't picked. I guess maybe a few weeks ago, but not this one. Bournemouth have beaten Arsenal and City at home already this season. So anyway that's annoying. But yeah, if you look at the form tables since Bournemouth's unbeaten run which is 11 games, they're top of the Premier League in that sort of 11 game spell. Scored 25 goals in those 11 games. Only conceded nine. So yeah, despite losing Solanke which is forgotten about, you know, their best player last season and not having a centre forward at the moment they're basically the best team in the league to watch and the pressing is so, so good and they're so. They're so clinical and decisive when they win the ball back. They're sort of frightening to play against really. Not that Liverpool are going to be intimidated but yeah, it should be, should be a fantastic game. Pretty much the most difficult test that Liverpool could ask for right now I.
- [27:44]
Adam Leventhal
Think and just sort of a sideline debate that's going on or talk on Andoni Iriola is that he's going to get plucked by a bigger team but that he might not be able to do what he does with his Bournemouth team at a bigger team because the big guns will actually go. I'm not working that hard but do you think that that's sort of a valid argument or do you think he could go into, I don't know, a Manchester City or an Arsenal and them playing like this Bournemouth side.
- [28:17]
Sam Lee
It's a really interesting question I think we've seen in the past. Nuno would be a good example of doing what he did at Wolves which required a complete buy in from everybody and then going to spurs and the players weren't having him and they weren't having it and he was sacked within three months. So yeah, you've got to have. You've got to have respect from the players from the off. You've got to also earn that respect when you get there. I think you probably have to do a little bit more than what he's doing right now to go into a big club and the players be like wow, we've got arreola as manager, you know, we better do what he says, do you know what I mean?
- [28:44]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah. So frustrating though, that, isn't it?
- [28:46]
Sam Lee
Yeah, but, yeah, it's just if you're going to pay footballers half a million a week, then that's what you're going to get. So. Game's gone. Adam.
- [28:55]
Adam Leventhal
It's weird you talking about money because normally you say, oh, they earn loads of money. Yeah. But you've got to worry about them burnout just because they're getting. Just because they're earning money. You can't.
- [29:04]
Sam Lee
Yeah. Liverpool had a long journey in the week to Netherlands worried for him.
- [29:09]
Adam Leventhal
Right, let's talk about Brentford. They're in 11th. They're hosting lowly Tottenham down in 15th. One of three games on Sunday. That one. Spurs beaten by Leicester last weekend. Yes, they won in the Europa League midweek, but only Southampton are in worse form than Tottenham over the last 10 games. Let's quickly check in with James Moore speaking on our spurs pod. View from the lane. Just in general, it's always good to hear from James Moore when Spurs are struggling. Let's have a listen.
- [29:41]
I
Most other listeners know that, like, this kind of pessimism is like ingrained in me, but I'm staggered that people are quite so flippant about the possibility of spurs being relegated. Like, I'm not saying that it's what I expect to happen, but I definitely think it's a possibility, this kind of stasis from the top of the club that is neither backing or sacking a manager and won't make any big decisions that are going to change the direction of anything. It floats on for another five or six games and then suddenly they're not six or seven points ahead of the bottom three, they're one or two points ahead. And look, it only takes one or two bad weeks for Wolves and or Leicester to be right up their backside. It's just that's the way these things work. And they've given Leicester a massive boost now by giving him three points yesterday.
- [30:24]
Adam Leventhal
Should James be worried really about spurs going down.
- [30:30]
Sam Lee
You know, eight points above.
- [30:32]
Adam Leventhal
Wolves at the moment?
- [30:34]
Sam Lee
I've got to know James pretty well over the years. I'm not sure anybody would share his levels of pessimism. When he's on one, it's pretty bad. And I take his spurs pessimism and raise him my Wolves pessimism and say, having watched a lot of both teams this season, there's a chasm of quality between them on their day. There's no way that in my opinion Wolves will be able to catch Tottenham this season. They're obviously on a horrendous run with form and injuries and confidence, but I don't see it lasting. Yeah, they had a good night. I watched spurs on Thursday night against Elfsborg, the mighty Elfsborg and yeah, they had a morale boost in night, you would say a great night actually, in many ways. You know, three. Three academy players coming off the bench to score. I don't think that's going to necessarily reflect what's going to happen to them in the Premier League because I don't really see any of those apart from Mikey Moore, who's got an amazing goal. The other two probably won't feature. But yeah, it's a massive season, defining. There's so much going to happen at spurs in the next sort of 10 days. They've obviously got this tricky game away at Brentford, they've got the cup game against Villa and they've got the Carabao cup second leg and they've got the end of the transfer window and that's pretty telling that they haven't signed in players yet. You know, James said they're about not backing the manager. Well, they're not, are they, at the moment. And that's really telling for me that they need players now more than. Than ever. And they've only signed a keeper that they were going to sign in the summer anyway in Kinski. So that's just unless they make some moves in the final days. That suggests to me that Levy isn't backing Ange because he knows that he might be sacking him quite soon.
- [32:20]
Adam Leventhal
Well, two sides who are looking to build on victories over Tottenham and potentially hunt them down are Everton, who are currently 16th and a point behind Tottenham up against Leicester head to head on Saturday at Goodison Park. Leicester just a point above the drop zone. Obviously buoyed by that victory at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium on Everton. Injuries, more injuries this week. Mangala, Dominic, Calvert, Lewin, both out for extended periods. But aside from that, have you been impressed with Moyes impact so far?
- [33:01]
Sam Lee
Yeah, probably quite predictable that he's sort of come in and lifted the gloom and added a bit of positivity, maybe added a bit of togetherness. I think Dice was probably just. Dice probably had enough. I think we could tell he was a bit worn down and they needed someone who's refreshed in David. Moyes is not going to necessarily change too much tactically because I'm not sure what you can do with that squad other than what sort of Dyche And Moyes have tried. You're not going to reinvent the wheel and make them prime Barcelona in a few weeks. They just haven't got the place to do it. He sort of really dug in on those sort of pragmatic, negative tactics. I don't know if you read Paddy Boylan's piece from Brighton last week and he said there was a bit of a verbal spat between Brighton fans and some of the Everton media team post match and they were kind of. Brighton fans were sort of shouting, how do you watch this every week? Embarrassing way to football. You know, Brian get on the high horse, don't they, with that kind of stuff. So, yeah, Calvert, Lewin, definitely a blow. I mean he's not prolific but he's important to the way that they attack. Yeah, look, they should be absolutely fine now. I don't see them going down and yeah, it should be a. I say it should be a decent game. It's an interesting game against Leicester.
- [34:17]
Adam Leventhal
So basically what you're saying is that it's going to be Leicester, Wolves and Ipswich. We know that Southampton are down only six points. Awful that they are basically battling those three teams to finish 17th this weekend. Wolves host Aston Villa. Chance there because, you know, Villa have got a little bit of pressure on themselves. They're what, three points at the moment off seventh. So they've got a bit of pressure to close the gap. So are you feeling positive for Wolves?
- [34:45]
Sam Lee
No, no, no, no, no, I'm not. I guess the only thing you'd say is vi haven't been great at times of season. Obviously a massive win against Celtic in midweek, but a physically and mentally, you know, energy sapping game. If Molyneux was a tough place to go at the moment and if the atmosphere was. It was big and intimidating and Wolves were getting at teams from the off, then they could make Villa have a difficult afternoon. But those things just aren't happening at the moment. I think if you look at the picture, obviously Southampton have gone. Everton should be fine. I thought they'd be safe under Dyche anyway, to be honest. The only question was whether they would have that sort of unity to get them through certain games. I think they've got that now. My concern from a Wolves point of view is that Ipswich's recruitment has been active. It's been decent. They brought in Enciso from Brighton who I think could be a good addition. They brought in Godfrey at the back to bolster the defence and they brought in Philogine from Villa. But Wolves are doing nothing recruitment wise. So that can be pretty telling at the end of the season. And it's a must win game for Ipswich at home to Southampton this week. And if they win, then it's going to look pretty bleak for Wolves, who've got a really tough run of fix at the moment.
- [35:56]
Adam Leventhal
Oh, let's talk. Let's talk about a couple of other teams. Manchester United against Crystal palace. That's coming up on Sunday. Well, Manchester United, they've pulled themselves away from relegation trouble. They take on Crystal palace this weekend and five wins out of six. I know Ruben Amarin said the whole thing about Manchester United's worst team in history, etc. Etc. But do you get the feeling that he's stabilized in some way, shape or form, or is it still looking dicey for you?
- [36:34]
Sam Lee
He's made him harder to beat. I think a lot of that has to do with attitudes and players playing for him. We saw it when they beat Arsenal on penalties in the Cup a few weeks ago and then they had a couple of dodgy games, sort of had to come from behind to beat Southampton and lost to Brighton. But since then they've won tight games. They've won boring games. That Fulham game was atrocious. They came through it 1 nil. Watched a bit of the game against FCSB on Thursday night. Again, awful first half, but they've come through it with a clean sheet and a 20 win. So it's small building blocks, isn't it? It's getting the basics right in terms of their formation and a bit of discipline and a good attitude. You get that and then you work on the attack from there, I think. So, yeah. They're suddenly gone from being, you know, a must watch every week and sort of, you know, the way the spurs are at the moment, you know, proper banter, it's going to be hilarious. They've gone to pretty boring, which I think is exactly, exactly what they need right now.
- [37:28]
Adam Leventhal
Chelsea West Ham is the Monday Night Football. Chelsea start the weekend in sixth, only one win in seventh and that came against relegation threatened Wolves in the league. So we can't read too much into that. In terms of what's happening there, what's your sort of feeling on the vibes?
- [37:48]
Sam Lee
Yeah. They've sort of reverted to type, haven't they? After, you know, they were never in the title race, let's be honest.
- [37:54]
Adam Leventhal
Are you happy that your early season prediction of it's a mess, it's always going to be a mess. They are a mess is sort of bearing fruit now. Is that the feeling?
- [38:04]
Sam Lee
I'M not happy about that, but it's nice to be right.
- [38:08]
Adam Leventhal
So it's definitely going to be right by the end of the season. You see them fading away and then if they do fade away, where does that leave Maresca?
- [38:14]
Sam Lee
Well, look, they need a decent manager to have a bit of time there and have a couple of seasons and have a bit of a settled squad.
- [38:21]
Adam Leventhal
And he's been honest, hasn't he? He said, I know you said as well, but he was saying, look, chill out. I know we're doing well, but we're not that good.
- [38:28]
Sam Lee
Chill out, chill out, guys.
- [38:29]
Adam Leventhal
It's basically what he said, wasn't it?
- [38:31]
Sam Lee
Yeah. What's often forgotten about Chelsea is that they've got not only the youngest team in the league this season, but one of the youngest teams we've ever seen in the. In the Premier League. You know, there are going to be inconsistencies. I think they're over reliant on Jackson and Palmer. Both of those have had a dip in the last few weeks and it's no coincidence that so of their results. And they've got a very weak centre in terms of centre backs either out of form or injured or constantly rotating or bringing back someone from palace that they were happy to discard a few months ago. And Sanchez, who's. Who's the weak link for them and has been probably all season and while he's in goal for the rest of the season then. And yeah, they're letting goals win they shouldn't basically, which is always going to be a problem. Yeah, they're going to be in and around the European chase, but I don't see them clinging back onto sort of Arsenal's and forest coattails again.
- [39:16]
Adam Leventhal
Tim, it's been great to be in your company as always. Thank you.
- [39:19]
Sam Lee
Thank you, Adam.
- [39:20]
Adam Leventhal
You're welcome. Thanks to Sam and James earlier on for our focus on Arsenal against Manchester City. That's the big one on Sunday. Whatever game you're going to this weekend or you're watching from around the world, enjoy it and we will be back on Monday.
- [39:38]
Tim Spears
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Adey Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [40:09]
J
Hello, I'm Ian McIntosh and I'm the host of the Daily Football Briefing. What is the Daily Football Briefing? It's a special 10 minute daily show designed to bring you up to speed with the most important stories from across the football world. Except on Monday mornings when it's 15 minutes and we try to cram in the results, standings and stories from the top 10 leagues on the platform planet. Or at least the top 10 leagues that I run on a football manager save. Follow this show today and you'll never miss another big story again. Whether it's news that the Athletic has just broken David Ornstein.
- [40:39]
Sam Lee
What happened?
- [40:40]
J
News from outside the Premier League that other podcasts might ignore, that is a.
- [40:43]
Sam Lee
Difficult one to explain. So let's go bit by bit.
- [40:46]
J
Or it's Champions League week and you just need someone to put it all into context.
- [40:49]
Tim Spears
It's made for a very useful away point in a difficult game in a difficult week.
- [40:54]
J
Listen to the Daily football briefing in 2025. It's out every weekday. Wherever you get your podcast.