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- [00:00]
Matt Davis Adams
Close your eyes.
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Stu James
Listen to Monday.com feel the sensation of an AI work platform so flexible and intuitive it feels like it was built just for you. Now open your eyes, go to Monday.com.
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Start for free, and finally breathe.
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- [02:53]
Stu James
The Athletic FC.
- [02:56]
Matt Davis Adams
Welcome to the preview from the Athletic fc. It's the show where we get you set for the weekend's Premier League action. This week we're looking ahead to Arsenal versus Manchester United. And joining me today, we've got Stu James. Welcome back, Stu.
- [03:12]
Stu James
Thanks very much, Matt, for having me back on. Good to see you.
- [03:15]
Matt Davis Adams
Always a pleasure. And making his first preview appearance of the season, it's Art Durocher. How are you doing, Art?
- [03:20]
Art Durocher
I'm good, thanks. Thanks for having me. And I hope your week's gone well. Good weekend of football to look forward to as well.
- [03:26]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, it looks like a really fun one. Later in the show, we'll get into some of the other big matchups of match week 23. And hey, it's the reverse of the matchday one games. You'll remember those listeners. Spurs winning comfortably at home. Mo Salah putting the seal on a big win for the reigning champions Nunoz Forest making Keith Andrews look like a goofy how far we've come slash, fallen. Let's get into our feature presentation. So it is Arsenal versus Manchester United. Before we get into the game, one man who might feature in it on Sunday but won't when the teams meet next season is Casemiro. He cost Manchester United 60 million pounds back in the summer of 2022, then aged 30. But he's announced that he is off at the end of the season. How will we look back on his legacy, Stu, in terms of his Man United career? Good on him for getting 375 grand a week out of them or a spent force who drained their resources?
- [04:23]
Alex Boyes
Both.
- [04:23]
Stu James
Wow, this is complicated, Matt. Right? As you said, he cost a fortune. A £60 million fee. Close to the same again in wages by the time he leaves. And he was 30 when he signed. And I think all of that from day one, it was almost impossible for that transfer to be a success. Well, unless he had a really transformative effect on United States right across those four seasons. And realistically that was never going to happen. Not just because of him, but because of the mess United have been in over that period. So none of that is to say that he hasn't played well at times. You know, including this season, he's been a mainstay in the team. He was man of the match against City last weekend. What I will say is I do admire the way he responded to being written off. And let's be honest, it wasn't just Carragher who thought he was finished. There were plenty of people who thought his, in quotes, legs had gone. So fair play to him for turning that around in such a way that he will now go out on a high at Man United. You know, the good definitely outweighed the bad in terms of his time there. But if I think back, if you imagine if United had landed their main target that summer, they were looking at Rice and they were also looking at Frenkie De Jong and they had a fee agreed, you know, for Frenkie De Jong. Ultimately they couldn't get him to come. 63 million. He's 28 now. Casemiro will be 34 when he leaves. And he leaves at a point when we know United won't get any feedback for him. Obviously there's no, there was never going to be any sell on. So the contrast between the two there is, is absolutely huge.
- [05:49]
Matt Davis Adams
Is he kind of the poster boy for the bad decisions that Manchester United have made over the last few years? And which Saudi pro league club do you see him pitching up at?
- [05:59]
Art Durocher
In terms of poster boy? I think there's probably a lot more fitting candidates for that. Maybe Anthony, considering he was the one that really spiked up, I guess, the market price for wingers at that point, I believe they paid around 80 or 90 million for him. But in terms of Casemiro, I agree with Shu in terms of him being both a positive and a negative. I think when you look at the way United have been set up as a team throughout his kind of four years there, I think there's also parts of it where maybe he's been beneficial to someone like Kobay Mainu coming into the team. And we might not really be able to see that just in the way he plays. But when you've got a young midfielder who's not exactly the same, but a similar vein, there's probably stuff Main who's learned from him to have such an impact that he has done in these kind of recent years, other than when Ruben Amarim was in charge. And in terms of the Saudi pro league, which team he could go to, I mean, he could have his pick, really, but I would assume he'd join back up with Cristiano Ronaldo at Al Nassir. I reckon that would be the most logical move.
- [07:10]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, that news comes in the aftermath of United's feel good win in the Derby. Last weekend was billed as two tough games to start for Michael Carrick.
- [07:19]
Stu James
Stu.
- [07:19]
Matt Davis Adams
But I guess the pressure's been massively reduced on Sunday's match given that he's beaten City. Did you see that performance coming? How much of it was about United and how much of it was about City?
- [07:30]
Stu James
Yeah, it was on the cards, wasn't it, Matt? Of course I saw that coming. You know, it was inevitable that they'd play like that and win like that. Yeah, it was a huge surprise to me. But it wasn't just the result, which was obviously the most important thing, but the performance too. That was a really excellent United performance. They played with a lot of emotion, largely controlled emotion. They were a little bit fortunate early on, maybe that Dala didn't get a straight red card for the foul on Doku, but it really did feel like the United of old. And when I say the United of old, I'm talking like a long time ago. Obviously, tactically, Carrick got it spot on. You know, a couple of the big calls he made, bringing Kobe, Manu back in. Maguire, they really delivered for him. And I just felt watching it, the first 10 minutes were quite telling. United were really on the front foot, they were aggressive. Maguire, I remember, was unlucky not to score from that header. And in contrast, City look really uncomfortable. I remember in the first few minutes, especially that back four, Ake let a ball go under his foot. Elaine, who's obviously finding his way in the game, had an awkward moment not long after that too. And you know, I think if we're honest, City's makeshift defense, you look at it, that day, it was Lewis Kusanov, Elaine Ake in Guardiola's preferred back four. None of those start. And so I think that would have given United encouragement beforehand, but equally take nothing away from United. They had the bit between their teeth that defended really well when they needed to, epitomized by the two center backs, Martinez and Maguire, who were excellent. And they played some really good football, like fast, vertical, penetrative football. Like I say, the United of old. Their counter attacks were brilliant. Bruno Fernandes looked so much better in that more advanced role where he's got two players behind him. He's got more freedom to make things happen, which he obviously did. And it was two nil. And to be honest, it could have been three or four. That was how good United were. Of course, the big thing now is you can be bang up for a derby. You know, you've had a change in the dugout. Can you replicate that consistently over the course of, you know, the remainder of the season? That's, that's the real challenge for that group of players.
- [09:33]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, and an interesting challenge for Carrick right out because they were, they were brave with the ball and front footed against United. Does he think, well that got us the points against City, let's do it against Arsenal and if so, might that play into, into the Gunners hands?
- [09:47]
Art Durocher
Yeah, I think when you look at how Arsenal, not just this season but in recent seasons, how teams have played against them, what's really frustrated Arsenal is when teams sit in a mid or low block. So I think Carrick will know that and if he decides to maybe change tactics for this game, it would be understandable, I would say in terms of the way they approached the City game, what probably really kind of not forced his hand but helped him choose the way to approach the game was them being at home and the energy that they would have got from the fans at Old Trafford. I think that would have been a really kind of good tool to use to, as Stu said, really get that controlled emotion in, into the players. I think if they do try and attack Arsenal, it could really benefit Arsenal and Arteta because we've seen in the Champions League when teams have tried to play football, that's when Arsenal really come alive. And if Carrick does the same at the Emirates, I reckon an end to end game would be entertaining for everyone. But Arsenal would probably have the quality to come out with the win. So yeah, it'll be an interesting dilemma I think.
- [10:59]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, well you mentioned the Champions League there. Arsenal made it seven wins from seven on Tuesday night. They brought books. A top two group stage finish by beating into three one at San Siro. And that was nicely timed, right Stu, for Mikel Arteta after back to back Nil Nil draws in the Premier League. Just what they needed I guess ahead of Sunday's game.
- [11:19]
Stu James
Definitely. And I think that win in Milan, it just ticked every box for Arsenal. Arteta made seven changes, so he rested a lot of key players and they still came away with an excellent victory against on paper the best team in Italy at this moment in time. That says everything. I think it really highlights the, the squad depth that Arsenal have got and that's something I've spoken about on here before because I think they have the best squad depth in definitely in England, but probably in Europe. Art did a really excellent piece early in the season, in September Time. Sure you'll remember it, Art. When you presented on a graphic alternative Arsenal 11s and I mean it was. It was blooming astonishing. Looking at that, I couldn't believe it. I think your second eleven had Martinelli one side up front, Madueke the other. And I think you were torn between Havertz or Trossard at that time up front as he was in the first 11. I mean, someone commented under that article, I put money on that reserve 11 being able to stay up. I'm like, stay up? That Reserve 11 is top six. That's qualifying for Europe. So yeah, that just shows the quality that Arteta has got. So that didn't in any way look like a second string on paper when the team was announced and it didn't look like that on the pitch. I think the fact that one striker, Jesus scores two goals, another one comes off the bench, Victor Yokerez and scores Arts. Better qualified than me to say this, but probably his best goal in an Arsenal shirt. All of that must have given Arteta huge satisfaction. I thought Saka was really good on the right, so effective, constantly creating chances, going inside, often on the outside too. And of course in the middle of that there was the standard. Another Arsenal goal from a corner. They're 19th for the season, so that will be interesting on Sunday. City had a couple of early corners, Matt, against United and. And they were really poor corners. You know, you miss an opportunity to put a team under pressure. Arsenal I'm sure won't be like that and I'm intrigued to see how United deal with it. Inter had virtually everyone back and almost everyone in the six yard box the other night, but eight of their players were marking space. And we've moved so far away now from man to man Mark, and everyone wants to go zonal. I just. It doesn't work against Arsenal, certainly. So really interested to see how United deal with that threat on Sunday.
- [13:31]
Matt Davis Adams
It's not just the set piece threat, right. You were impressed with their energy and their dynamism midweek. I guess they should be able to replicate that given that the pack was shuffled so much midweek.
- [13:43]
Art Durocher
Yeah, I think it depends. You'd hope or Arsenal fans and Arteta would hope they can replicate it, but I think it really comes down to the personnel. When you look at that first goal that Jesus scored, what was really encouraging about it was they played through Inter, lots of one touch passes to get inside the box. Whereas when teams are set up against them like that in the Premier League, Jokers hasn't really been able to be the platform to kind of set off those one twos in and around the box. So I think it really depends on the players who are in those positions. But but what I would also say is to Stu's point on the squad depth Arteta now it's going to be really interesting to see how he sets up the team and the attack in particular against Intersaur as a playing as a 10 for the first time in let's say six weeks, almost two months. And when he's not playing, it's been Odegaard in there. So I think that's one debate he'll have to kind of come to terms with. Not just this weekend, but in the coming weeks. Also, who's the best wing pairing? Obviously Saka is going to be first choice pretty much most weeks, but then on the left, is it going to be Trossard or Martinelli? I think there's so many options for him to pick and choose from. It's not a bad thing. But it's just how do you get the right ones for the right games? I think that's the big conundrum for him.
- [15:10]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah. And speaking of which, next we're going to get into personnel and where each team will look to hurt each other.
- [15:20]
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- [16:55]
Podcast Host/Announcer
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [17:00]
Matt Davis Adams
So, as we said, an ideal night for Mikel Arteta's front men midweek. Gabriel Jesus bagged the brace. Remember, braces can only ever be bagged. And then Victor Jokers scored shortly after coming off the bench. I mean, initially I'd put presumably Jesus starts on Sunday. Duncan Alexander on the Totally Football show, making the case for Mikel Marino. Havertz is back now too. Who are you going with?
- [17:22]
Art Durocher
It's really, really difficult one, but I think I would go with you in saying Jesus from the start. I was at a press conference a couple weeks ago and I asked Arteta about basically how he would rotate up front and he said it's not about rotation, it's about performance. So going off that, I would say the strongest performer at the minute is Gabriel Jesus. And you see not just with the goals but how he's able to really connect the team, whether that's in the final third or in deeper positions, picking up the ball, being a couple of players and winning free kicks to just give Arsenal platform. I think that's the way I would go and just, yeah, surround him with loads of technical players because that's the type of football that I like to see.
- [18:09]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, and Joker has a bit more space. If he comes off the bench, Stu, maybe a bit less pressure on him as well. I mean, that's game state dependent.
- [18:17]
Stu James
Yeah, I know what you're saying, Matt. I think that was a nice scenario for him the other night. Arsenal are leading 2:1. There's no real pressure in terms of the result. Essentially go and have a run around 15 minutes. Inter aren't playing with, with, you know, that low block that causes more problems for Arsenal and lots of teams, in fact interchasing a goal, there's going to be space in behind and you know, if you want a bit of extra motivation too, the guy who you just replaced has scored two goals. You know, go and show us what you can do. And obviously he did with that lovely goal. You know, it was fantastic pass from Martinelli first. I was showing my age with the comment I made on the live blog at the time. When I see any Arsenal player do anything the outside their boot, I always think of Liam Brady. You know, you're too young for this art for sure, Matt. Hopefully you're not the 101 Great Goals video. Look at that, look at that from Brady. But when players use the outside of their boot, sometimes it frustrates me because I think sometimes players do it because they don't trust their other foot in that moment. There's no frustration. It's just a fantastic pass from Martinelli. It almost feels scandalous that he doesn't get an assist or anything for it, really. Obviously it was a brilliant finish. He took it really, really well and surely that has to give him a load of self belief. But I am with Art totally. You know, for what it's worth, if I was picking someone to start up front, I'd say Jesus and I think Yokerez as well. I just sense those United center backs, they'd rather come up against someone physical. That's their game, you know, being aggressive like they were last weekend with Haaland. And I think Jesus just offers something a bit different. And the first goal he scored, would Victor Yokarez have scored that? I don't know that he would have done. So. Yeah. There we go. After all that, you'll probably go and pick Yokos now, won't you, Arteta?
- [19:56]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, I think you've definitely just commissioned yourself a piece on best use of outside of the boot. Looking forward to that long read coming up in the next couple of months. Post afcon then both Ahmad and Brian and Burmo back for Manchester United, both impressing against City. Carrick played in Burmo through the middle. Is that. Is that where he's going to be from now on, do you think, Stuart?
- [20:18]
Stu James
I think. Well, I think he has to start there again this weekend. You know, he did really well there. He carried a threat. He was unlucky not to score before he did. He took his goal really well. A bit of a left field one here in terms of that goal, I feel like a nod to the excellent analysis from Thierry Henry on Sky the other night. That was really interesting how he broke down that counterattack and if anyone hasn't seen it, it is worth watching. It is fascinating that, you know, when you've got those attacking waves and Bruno Fernandez, so intelligent, takes that touch inside which then opens up the space for the pass to Mbuma and for Mbumo to have more time when he then gets the shot away. It was just really, really good play from United and kind of, yeah, captured everything. What they were about. It weren't nice, the three of them, you know, Dorgu one side of him and Ahmad the other. They came in intelligently out of possession and in possession they were really effective. You know, it was a. A really good attacking trio. So I can't see why you'd move away from that at this moment in time. Even though I don't typically think of Brian and Bumo as being a number nine.
- [21:21]
Matt Davis Adams
Bit awkward for Matthias Kunya then, isn't it? Is he going to have to make do with a roll off the bench again then?
- [21:26]
Art Durocher
Yeah, possibly. Last week I was on Totally. So apologies if there's any listeners who listen to that and are now listening to me say something very similar. But it was looking ahead to the Manchester derby and I mentioned that I was quite interested to see what players Carrick would almost reimagine positionally because when he was at Middlesbrough I spoke to Chuba Akpom who's always been a striker but quite quickly after Carrick and Woodgate came into Middlesbrough they moved him back into a number 10 and he just exploded and quite soon got moved to Ajax off the back of his form for Carrick. So I, I thought there was potential for Carrick to maybe reposition someone and I guess it was Dorgu on that left wing. And I think when you look at the way teams attack for, well, for the past 10, 15 years it's always been wingers on I guess the wrong side or coming into their stronger foot basically. And I really liked what I saw from Dogu in a left foot or on the left wing and if they do that again I think yeah, that's a really smart way to approach the game because it keeps Arsenal's right hand side really honest and I think that maybe Cunha again would have to come on and maybe play off the flanks but we saw again that was a right foot on the right side and it benefited Manchester United in the second half. So yeah, I'm really intrigued to see if Carrick continues with that because there's themes where as maybe Stu said earlier, you're seeing more old fashioned tactics come into play again and I think it's a more than welcome addition to this Premier League season.
- [23:14]
Matt Davis Adams
Any batterings on Sunday then? Art? What's the score going to be?
- [23:19]
Art Durocher
I'm going to go with 3:1 arsenal.
- [23:21]
Matt Davis Adams
Spicy, like it. Any events on that stuff?
- [23:24]
Stu James
No, I'm going the other way. I'll say two 1. It's a very different game all of a sudden than what it would have looked like a few weeks ago. But I still fancy, I still fancy Arsenal so two one for me.
- [23:33]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, we shall see. It is the 4:30 kickoff on Sunday in the Premier League.
- [23:38]
Podcast Host/Announcer
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [23:42]
Matt Davis Adams
Right, this is the part of the show where with the help of our partners Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. We've got Alex Boyes back with us this week. Alex, I thought you'd been avoiding me because you wanted to be polite about the fact that Leeds were doing so much better than Forest.
- [23:56]
Alex Boyes
It wasn't intentional, Matt. You know, it's very much.
- [23:58]
Stu James
It was.
- [23:59]
Alex Boyes
It's me, it's not you. But yes, Leeds have been doing very well. And to be honest, we've got a big game against each other in a couple of weeks on Friday night at Elham Road. And I think if Leeds were to win that game, we might be able to say we're almost there. Oh, I feel scared to say that out loud. But yeah, we've been on a great run.
- [24:14]
Matt Davis Adams
It's weird, isn't it, because there's three points between us. But the vibes could not be more different. Anyway, in terms of this game then, Arsenal versus Manchester United, it's been the big focus for us on the pod this week. Which way do you see it going in terms of the match odds to start with?
- [24:29]
Alex Boyes
Yeah, the early readers in the market as Arsenal's huge odds on favourites, which it's no surprise really, despite the amazing efforts from Man United last week. You know, very dominant in that Derby Day victory. But one to two are the Gunners to beat the Red Devils for a fifth home game in a row in the league. Actually, if they do so Carrick side, you know, they've never before gone seven league games in a row without winning against Arsenal in their history. But that small bit of unwanted history could happen this weekend following a draw and five defeats in the last six matches between these two. And they're as big as four to one at the Emirates this weekend with the draw Matt now at 5 to 2. Just quickly though, perhaps those who like the draw would maybe prefer the nil. Nil following Arsenal's last two Premier League games have ended goalless and that's available to back at 13:1.
- [25:16]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, that does feel like the style of the time across the Premier League at the moment. Let's talk bet builders then. We've had some luck with these in recent weeks. We've got Burmo, Martinez and Shaw featuring this time round.
- [25:28]
Alex Boyes
Yeah, well, you want to start with some value when you start with a bet builder. And because of Arsenal's incredibly short price, all of their star attackers are quite short across the shots and goals market. So I think a good place to start is actually on Manchester United's side and Bayern and Buemo's four to six for a shot on target. I think that's a decent foundation. You're straight back into the team. Last week wasn't he scored a great goal and actually he's had a shot on target in each of his last 11 games for Manchester United. So that 46 looks a juicy price to me despite its odds on nature. And then no surprise that I'm going to head to those player card markets. And the winner this week is Lisandro Martinez, back in the team for the last few weeks following his injury. And he's actually been booked in two of his three appearances at the Emirates Stadium, committing three fouls in his last visit there. Then the final leg is Luke Shaw to commit two or more fouls up against Bukayo Saka. We all know by now how many fouls Saka does win, how many cards he draws from the opposition. And again, in Shaw's last appearance at the emirates he committed three fouls and was booked in a 32 defeat. So that comes out Matt around 91 on the Betfair Sportsbook, which looks a nice price. And remember we've got Betfair safe sub. So if any of those players were to be subbed off, our bet is not over. This means that on selected Leeds and markets your bet rolls onto the player coming on to keep your bet live right to the end.
- [26:50]
Matt Davis Adams
Nice. Sure got a booking in the Manchester Derby last weekend too. Alex, great to have you back. Hopefully speak to you again soon.
- [26:56]
Podcast Host/Announcer
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [27:00]
Matt Davis Adams
So Arsenal's draw at Forest enough to extend their lead at the top after Manchester City and Aston Villa both slipped to defeat. We'll start with Pep's peeps. Things didn't get any better for them in Europe, losing 31 to Bodo Glimt on Tuesday night. Rodri sent off for a couple of bookings in the space of less than a minute. Pretty much sums things up for City at the moment. Mark Gurhe, might he be the answer to all the ails them currently stuff?
- [27:28]
Stu James
That's a big ask because it feels like there's a fair bit not going right at City at the minute. I mean, you know, the Rodri instant. I didn't see the full game but I turned on just around that point and yeah, I couldn't believe that he would do something like that player with his experience because it was such a blatant, cynical foul and we do see those. You know, I don't even know if I can call it a tactical foul. It was kind of worse than that. And it was only going to end with another yellow card. And I don't understand fouls like that in the sense that it was quite close to the halfway line. You know, there was no guarantee even that they were going to end up with a shot on goal, let alone score. So I guess those things happen. They're instinctive and clearly players don't think them through. But it was a really, a really strange decision from Rodri, who's still finding his way. And it was interesting hearing Guardiola talk about this a little while ago where he said, you know, obviously he's been out a long time, Rodri, and he didn't feel that Rodri was going to get back to his best until the World Cup. You know, it's going to take that long for him to find that rhythm in his game. But yeah, it's not all about him. There's. There's other issues. Foden's form has held off. He had a really bright spell a little while ago, but that's not the case now. Haaland, one goal, I think in his last eight games. That's a penalty. You know, he just feels so peripheral, looks frustrated. And then I mentioned the defense earlier. Clearly they've had some really bad injuries, lost key players, and it's a makeshift back four. So obviously having Mark Gehe, who I think is a brilliant signing, as he would have been for anyone, will come in and help. But yeah, my overriding point there, Matt, is there's a lot of other things that aren't clicking at the moment at Manchester City, which is strange because I think again, you asked me on here, I don't know, a few weeks back they were in the groove. I think they may have beaten West Ham and we were like, oh, is this City going to. How do you stop them? Are they going to go and string together a load of wins? And I thought they would. And yeah, the polar opposites happened.
- [29:15]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, issues all over the pitch. And with the notable exception of the double digit hall against Exeter, the goals of dried up to some extent. Interesting art in Pep's comments about Erling Haaland exhausted. I mean, maybe give him a rest then. Turkey's been picking up some of the slack. Semenya started well. Maybe give Mahmouche a go. Only two Premier League starts all season. Any chance that Haaland gets a rest against Wolves? I mean, they'd expect to win this game with or without him, wouldn't they?
- [29:42]
Art Durocher
Yeah, they would, but I just don't see it. And that's not nothing against, say, Wolves. When you see players of that stature, that status is so rare for them to get rested. Arsenal, sorry to bring it to them, but they've had something similar with Bukayo Saka, where it's only this season where Mikel Arteta's started to kind of give him rest. And with Haaland and Manchester City being in the form that they're in, I would feel that Guardiola would want to keep with him even if Marmusch has played so few matches this season. I just feel like it's one where if you're in such bad form in front of goal, you'd rather have Haaland on the pitch than not. Even if it is Wolves who are actually, to be fair to them, they've really picked up form since the turn of the year. So I think that side of it as well, you can't look at it as a given. I don't think so. I would expect Haaland to start.
- [30:45]
Podcast Host/Announcer
Yeah.
- [30:45]
Matt Davis Adams
City will normally steamroller bottom feeders at the Etihad, but Wolves definitely looking more robust. As Art says, unbeaten in four in the league, only conceded twice in that time. And Stu, for Rob Edwards, he needs to take some momentum into next season. Right. How does that look? Is it just getting past the 11 point mark? Is not finishing bottom maybe realistic for them?
- [31:06]
Stu James
Possibly, yes. I mean, there's a theme here with my bad predictions, but I thought they were nailed on go down the lowest Premier League points total. You know, they were stuck on two for what felt like forever. I think it was 12 successive defeats and you know, I was looking at it thinking, what on earth have you walked into here, Rob Edwards? You know, Middlesbrough were going really well, the club he left behind. So that said, in fairness, there were some encouraging signs. I was at that Arsenal game when Wolves were really competitive that night and they were, they very nearly came away with a point. You know, they were, it was all level in injury time after they got a late goal and then obviously Arsenal went up the other end and scored again straight away. And also they, they played well at Liverpool and were unlucky to lose there. So there were some signs there that he was getting things right. Credit where it's due, you know, they've, they've. He stopped the Rob Edwards and he's found a way to make Wolves, you know, difficult to beat, which is not something we thought we'd say a little while ago. And there's, you know, some silver linings too. Matthias Mane looks a really good player the 18 year old. You know, if Wolves almost certainly won't be in the Premier League next season. But I think there's a good chance he could be. You know, he's a. He's a really promising talent. So was it six points I think Matt from the last four games. So I think they would have to. Let's say it's unlikely they did that across the rest of the season then. 16 games left. My very bad maths. What 24 points. They're on 8. They'd finish on 32. That would be incredible for them to repeat that form all the way through. I still don't think it would be enough. So yeah, they're going down, I think so. Negative message, I guess. But I think for the minute all they probably want to do is let's get past derby count is total as soon as we can. And then you know. Yeah, you're thinking, okay, what does this look like for next season? But certainly it's far more encouraging than it was a month ago.
- [32:48]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, definitely. So City wolves is a 3 o' clock Saturday kickoff on Sunday. Aston Villa go to Newcastle Villa had 18 on the spin at home in the league before Everton left with the points in pretty drab affair last weekend. So they go to St. James to face Newcastle who are held by Wolves but bounced back in Europe by beating PSV3 nil on Wednesday night. There was a negative in that Stu. In that Bruno Guimarajs went off injured. Eddie Howe though in his press conference on Friday morning reasonably positive after the game will give him every chance for the weekend. He's not one to give a lot away in a press conference is Howe. But that might suggest that he's got half a chance of featuring. And he's pretty important to them, right?
- [33:29]
Stu James
He is. Yeah. I just. I noted down a stat in my colleague George Culkin's piece on Thursday. Newcastle have yet to win a league game. Guimara has not started since his full debut after arriving in January 2022. I mean that's astonishing, right? So that kind of says everything. And then there was another stat I was looking this morning. I thought I'll have a little look at his kind of goals and assists. So only only four players have scored more than him in the Premier League this season. Which I thought was amazing really. You know, he's not an attacker. So that tells you everything about his influence on the Newcastle team. I think he makes them tick in terms of how they play and when they play well. But he's also obviously scoring and assisting too. Plenty this season. So he is a really, really key player for them. One of those players who's really embraced everything about his football club and the city seems to be kind of bought into everything about Newcastle. Which means next week, Matt, you'll be saying, what do you think now that he's handed in a transfer request and said, I've gone as far as I can at Newcastle.
- [34:26]
Matt Davis Adams
So Villa come into this one fourth. They've got a 10 point gap over Newcastle Magpies, though unbeaten in their last 17 home games against Villa. Are you old enough to remember the significant event that happened the last time villa went at St. James's Park?
- [34:41]
Art Durocher
So I didn't remember off the top of my head, but I had a look and I did see it was the Dyer Bojah game, which it seems insane that it was that long ago. Just ridiculous.
- [34:54]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, well worth digging out. Not just the clip of the fight, but also the very forced handshake which Graham Souness, then manager pull, presided over in public. What it did do, Stu, which is a shame, was that it overshadowed the amazing red card for Steven Taylor. So Newcastle finished with eight men in that game. I don't know if you remember this. He got sent off a deliberate handball, but threw himself to the ground as if he'd been shot in the chest to try and cover up the fact that he'd been sent off our ball.
- [35:22]
Stu James
This was the platoon scene, wasn't it? I wouldn't have known that then, Matt. That was the same game. So there you go. That sums up the point you're making. I completely. But yeah, I do recall seeing that. Obviously these are the days long before Var, but yeah, I don't think we needed VAR to know what Steven Taylor had done there. But yeah, what a crazy game. You're right. That scene afterwards. There's that press conference, wasn't there he sat between the two of them. Isn't he like. Well, I'm not going to explain this. You two are going to come out and do it. And yeah, one of the. When you think of the. The bonkers Premier League moments over the years, that is absolutely right up there.
- [35:56]
Matt Davis Adams
Villa, Meanwhile, back in 2026, they're in Europa League action. On Thursday, they beat Fenerbahce by a goal to nil in Istanbul. They start the weekend level on points with City in the Premier League. Their goal difference is just plus 8 though compared to City's plus 24. That defeat against Everton, Stu, was that the beginning of the reversion to the mean given their XG overperformance? Few People saying this is when they'll start to stumble.
- [36:22]
Stu James
Yeah, Matt, you're coming to the wrong person here. Anything on Villa, you should know by now, I am not your man. I said at the start of the season to you before a ball was kicked, when there was no transfer activity, there's nothing to worry about. Villa would be fine. They failed to win any of their first five when we're in the bottom three. I then wrote after they won 11 on the spin, Emery is the best manager in the Premier League right now. They probably got battered 4:1 at Arsenal. So, yeah, I mean, it's just setting me up to be a fool again, really. Look, one of the reasons I said that about Emery is because I feel Villa, I've been punching above their weight. They are a team that is greater than the sum of its parts. I think Emery is an excellent coach and he's got so much out of them. And I say all that in the context of results like Everton. They will happen. You know, Villa are not, as I see it, typically, you know, a top two three club in the Premier League. They've had a fantastic season. But those moments, yeah, that's quite natural in a way, I think. I mean, I caught some of the game. Morgan Rodgers was guys like on a sponsored shotathon. He was shooting from everywhere. And not many of them were that good. Actually. There was one that produced a brilliant save from Pickford, I can remember. But the goal will be the thing that hurts because it's such a bad goal to concede, pal. Torres gets in a tangle and then Emmy Martinez, who is being quite erratic this season. You know, I think a lot of us expect him to go the end of last season and he should hold that ball. So it's kind of a catalog of errors. But Villa still have had a fantastic season. You know, the challenge for them now is not to obviously relinquish that top three spot. Realistically, you know, they're not going to go on and challenge for the title. Don't believe, but yeah, we'll see Sunday. Anything could happen with them Sunday.
- [37:54]
Matt Davis Adams
Stu talks about hurt there. Speaking of which, Bubakar Kamara expected to miss the remainder of the season. John McGinn out for a while too. It looks like after he hobbled off on Sunday. They made a couple of smart additions in the last winter window in Asensio and Rashford. Do you think they might need to do that again? I know they're sort of up against it PSR wise, but if there's a canny loan or two that they could get. Might that help things?
- [38:18]
Art Durocher
Yeah, I think the way they used the loan market last season was, was exceptional, really, especially because of what it gave them in Europe in the Champions League at the time, obviously Europa League this year. But when you look at how they've played after playing say on the Thursday, Sunday, they've actually won, I think every Premier League game after they've played in the Europa League this season, which hopefully I haven't jinxed them like Stu tends to. But, but I think the way they manage it, obviously Unai Emery's won that, I believe four times, three times with Sevilla and then once with Villarreal. I think he knows how to prioritize maybe and navigate those two competitions quite well. So, yeah, I think if you're looking at availability issues that have just sprung up, then dipping into that loan market could be the way to go again this year.
- [39:13]
Matt Davis Adams
All right. Continue to be linked with a return for Tammy Abraham as well.
- [39:16]
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- [39:21]
Podcast Host/Announcer
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Stu James
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- [41:44]
Podcast Host/Announcer
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- [41:48]
Matt Davis Adams
Now that it's been quite a rough couple of weeks to be a Crystal palace fan. Victims of possibly the biggest FA cup set ever. No wins in 10 in all comps. Captain's gone. Manager announces he's off at the end of the season. Star striker says he wants to leave as soon as possible. Yeesha, this is quite a spectacular fall from grace after the joys of winning the FA cup last season. How on earth can they get out of this funk ahead of their game against Chelsea on Sunday?
- [42:14]
Art Durocher
Yeah, it's a really difficult one. I was chatting to Mark Carey in the office, so one of our tactics writers, and we were saying how it's like there's seasons within seasons. People just tend to look at the campaign as one big season, but there's never one team that's going to have a completely consistent campaign the whole way through. And I guess we're seeing that with palace because there was one point where they were in the Champions League places, and now look at the situation they're in. I think if you're looking at that Chelsea game, if you're looking at players to maybe impress, obviously Jeremy Pino has been the guy who's stepped up with a few goals recently, but I think Adam Wharton is still the main guy that I would be looking to. I know he's not the player you'd look to for goals and assists, but in terms of just setting the tempo in that sort of game and really being able to control things, I think he's the one. The one guy really to really kind of hang your hat on and say, okay, really drive this team.
- [43:15]
Matt Davis Adams
What you made of the Glasner situation, Stu, very critical of the palace board, says he's off in the summer. Is staying together for the kids ever the best idea? Or is it best to just cut bait now?
- [43:28]
Stu James
I like that line, Matt. You throw me there. Well, it's been incredible to watch. I got to say, I thought his position was close to untenable last weekend after the defeat at Sunderland, you know, to come out and say what he did this whole, you know, I feel completely abandoned. So that was at the board, right? But then he's also, and I know this is aimed at the board, but also this stings at the players when he doesn't make a substitution and he's really saying, you lot there on the bench, I don't think you're good enough. I don't trust you to play. So, yeah, I expected him to go last weekend. You know, he's clearly an excellent coach. But is the Glassner that Palace are going to get for the remainder of the season? And that's an angry Glassner, a very emotional Glassner and a guy who knows that he's done. You know, he sounds like he has a. He's had a guts full and he has really, he's. We know he's leaving at the end of the season. He's already inevitably going to have an eye on what his next job will be. Is he worth keeping above getting someone else in? I'd be really interesting to see what happens now. Have they drawn a line under it? Last weekend, obviously there were talks with the palace board and now they're going to say, look, we know what the situation is. You're going the end of the season, you are duty bound to give us everything you've got and maybe Glasner will be really invested in that. They could still have success in Europe, right? As much as they've fallen in the league in their 13th now, there isn't that much of a gap if they got it back together again to climb that table. It's funny, right? I mean we've got a few palace fans in our, in our office, haven't we? You know, the five fields dominant. I mean Dom has been calling this collapse since palace were three unbeaten, four unbeaten, five unbeaten, six unbeaten early in the season. So he went right up to 19 and he was still doom in gloom and finally he's got his way. But it's been mad to watch from afar. When you think that magical day at Wembley, those scenes at a final whistle with the fans, forget the players were incredible, like spine tingling even if you weren't a Palace fan, and then they get. Get thrown out of the Europa League, then they lose Hesse at a really critical point, you know, not that long before the window closed. But despite all that, they were on that unbeaten run until they lost that game at Everton, I think it was in October, and it was pretty positive, as Art says, they were around the Champions League places. And then you have the FA cup defeat at Macclesfield, which was obviously, you know, calamitous. And then the 12 of that news, as you said last weekend, you know, Matt, with Marky leaving and Glasner and, you know, crike, it could get worse yet if Mateta goes. So I feel for palace, you know, it goes one or two ways now. The rest of the season, they keep sliding or they do get their act together and think, hang on a minute, we still got a chance to create a little bit of history here. We're in Europe. We could do something special in the Conference League. Come on.
- [45:57]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah. All nicely summed up in Nick Miller's piece on the Athletic this week about smaller clubs not being able to have nice things in the Premier League. Not for very long, at least. So this might play into. Into Chelsea and Liam Rossini's hands then are on Sunday. But he's going to have to rotate a bit, isn't he? I mean, they always do Chelsea, but Napoli on Wednesday, potentially the bigger game. They want to avoid the Champions League playoffs if possible. So he might mix things up. But we can be pretty sure that Caicedo and Enzo Fernandez will start because they always do, regardless.
- [46:30]
Art Durocher
Yeah, I think the big question, not just for Liam Rossini, but FPL fans, will be about Cole Palmer, how. How much involvement he can get at this point in time, because obviously he's only just recently come back from injury. And in terms of their schedule, I think when you look at how busy January is compared to maybe previous January, where there has been that break, it's a really difficult time, I think, to come into a new club and really understand what's going on. I think the benefit he has is Chelsea squad is massive, so he doesn't have just a few options to pick from. But, yeah, in terms of Racinha in general, I think it's massive that they were able to get that win over Brentford, because Brentford are a team who have actually frustrated Chelsea in recent seasons. So it's kind of nice way to kind of get people on side, be in a team who've almost been like a bogey team in recent seasons. And then Going into this one, I think he's going to have to rotate because of that Champions League game. But there's probably no better time to play palace than now, so. Yeah, I think he'd be up for it. The players would be up for it, whoever starts.
- [47:44]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah. Interesting. Chelsea. Wise to see them linked by our own David Ornstein. With Douglas Luiz they need another injury prone midfielder. The new Romeo Lavia, they're calling him Stu. What have you made of Liam Rosinha's start? I'm sort of struggling to get a handle on it. I was there for the Brentford game last weekend. Thought Brentford were, were much the better team. They struggled past Paphos. I mean, Paphos don't concede many goals away from home in the Champions League. He's won three of his first four. Only defeat was against Arsenal. Pretty much everybody loses against Arsenal. Has he, has he done as well as could be expected in the circumstances?
- [48:19]
Stu James
Yeah, I think it's difficult to judge now. And you know, Art's right, they have got a massive squad then. That also creates problems in the sense of, especially when you come into it this time of year, working out what your best team is and also just having time to work with those players. And that's why I think they can't take their eye off the ball with the league. You know, you look how tight the league is, you know, from Liverpool down to Sunderland, I think it's only three points, like fourth tonight and you know, finishing in the top four. They've got a real fight on to do that this season. But equally, if they could win against Napoli, I think what that gives Rossini then is some time on the training ground with the players instead of having those two extra games in midweek in February, you have the kind of opportunity that Michael Carrick's now got at Manchester United. Now obviously this is the last thing United want to not be in Europe, but if there's one benefit for a new manager coming in now, it's you can work on things tactically all week with your players and typically, you know, the top teams in the Premier League can't do that. So they've got to go to palace and put a team out that gives them the best possible chance of winning. So I think you can only rotate so much. You know, Art's right about Palmer that he said he had some tightness and muscle the other night, so be really surprising if he started both of these games. But there equally is a real incentive to win that Napoli game to give Rossinha more chance to put his kind of blueprint on the team. So yeah, it's fascinating watching from afar because he's a really good talker, right? And sometimes being a really good talker doesn't always help you. People get scrutinized more and more and more. Can't win, really, because if you don't say much, people have a go at you and say he's a bit dour and, you know, not very good with the media. But we can't expect to see Chelsea playing truly how he wants for a little while yet.
- [50:03]
Matt Davis Adams
Loads of great games to look forward to this weekend. Then that's what we'll leave it for today. My thanks to Stu, to Art, to producer Jay, and to you for listening. Enjoy the football and we'll catch up with you soon.
- [50:16]
Podcast Host/Announcer
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producer was Jay Beal and the presenter was Matt Davis Adams. The executive producer was Ailey Moorhead. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production and proudly sponsored by Betfair.
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