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- [00:02]
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- [01:01]
Matt Davis Adams
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Producer/Announcer
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Matt Davis Adams
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- [01:28]
James Mackey
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- [01:38]
Matt Davis Adams
Welcome to the preview from the Athletic fc. It's the show where we get you set for the weekend's Premier League action. This week we're focusing on the North London Derby and joining me today we've got a pair of preview debutantes. Alex Barker's with us. How you doing Alex?
- [01:57]
Alex Barker
I'm doing good, thank you.
- [01:57]
Matt Davis Adams
And we've got Reuben Pinder on board too. You okay, Ruben?
- [02:00]
Reuben Pinder
Yes, very well, thanks.
- [02:01]
Matt Davis Adams
Tremendous. Right, well, as well as Sunday's showdown, we're going to take a look over some of the other key games taking place on matchday 12 in the Premier League. But first let's get to our feature presentation. Arsenal have won five of their last six league games against their biggest rivals, including the last three in a row. It's their longest winning run against Berson. It's a five match stretch back in the late 80s. 4:30 on Sunday for this one. Arsenal could find themselves just a point ahead of Manchester City by that time, while spurs could drop from 5th to 12th if results elsewhere go against them. Both sides got injuries mounting up. So then Alex, which team slash manager is under more pressure going into this one?
- [02:43]
Alex Barker
I think it's definitely Thomas Frank at Tottenham. I mean, you know there is a bit of pressure on Arteta because Manchester City have started doing well recently and there's a little bit of a question to see. Maybe they could catch them in the race of the Premier League, which a few weeks ago looked over. But I think it's no question for me. Thomas Frank at Spurs. I think if he loses this, then it's almost his Nuno moment. I remember when Nuno, when he was at spurs, he lost 31 to Arsenal, and I think a lot of the Tottenham fan base were turning against him at that point. And we're kind of in a similar position at the moment where I think their fan base is just on the edge of saying Thomas Frank's football is just far too pragmatic and not entertaining enough for our expectations. And if he lose against Arsenal, then you get that double whammy of, well, the football's not entertaining to watch, nor are we getting good results from it, so what's the point of sticking with it?
- [03:32]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, that's Frank talk. Very literally. Mikel's mob, Ruben, they got Bayern Munich and Chelsea to follow next week. Could be a glorious triple header for them. Could be the week it all unravels. Could be somewhere in between. What we do know is that they'll be desperate to kick it off in appropriate fashion on Sunday.
- [03:47]
Reuben Pinder
Yeah, they're big favorites for this derby. Obviously, winning it would give them confidence going into two, on paper, tougher games against Bayern and Chelsea. But I think the most important thing for them in this game isn't really related to the other two this week. It's more that they don't cede any ground to Manchester City and that they maintain this gap because we've seen what happens when. When City close in on them and, you know, before Christmas, they won't want that gap to get reduced to one point. But like I say, they're. They're big favorites. Injuries are a factor, but the business that they did in the summer will help mitigate that circumstance because they've. They're much better prepared this season to cope with those injuries. So I think Arsenal should feel pretty confident going into this derby. And the games against Bayern and Chelsea. Bayern, I think, will prove the tougher test.
- [04:35]
Matt Davis Adams
Maybe a reason for spurs to have some confidence, too. Alex, given that they're the only side yet to lose away from home in the Premier League. Good job, given they've been so dismal at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. But they've won just one of their last 32 visits to Arsenal. I wonder if, despite that, though, Thomas Frank might be happier that it's an away game than a home game. Doesn't have a great record against Arsenal, but. But Brentford did Take a point there under him back in April.
- [05:00]
Alex Barker
Yeah, I mean, I think that's spot on because I think the, the issue with Thomas Frank so far has been, funnily enough, when his team have the ball, which tends to be when you're at home, right, and you have to take control of the game. It's very clear that Thomas Frank's put a lot of effort into changing Tottenham without the ball getting them to defend better. And I think less work has gone into making them a stronger team on the ball. That shows up when they're having to break down a low block against the lower teams in the Premier League. But when they're against a team they can kind of sit back against, like Manchester City earlier in the season, they can come up with a plan to disrupt them with the press. They can, like focus on defending the right areas. That's Thomas Frank's game. That's where he seems to thrive. So, yes, despite that record against Arsenal, this will be nicer for Thomas Frank at this moment than say, if they were having to travel to Sunderland or Bournemouth, whomever a team who would give them the ball. And at that point they start to expose Tottenham's problems.
- [05:58]
Matt Davis Adams
And it's the perfect chance, right, Ruben, for him to ingratiate himself with spurs supporters interested to see that there has been some talk of a rift between he and they. And maybe not that helpful that he was talking about being interviewed for the Man United and Chelsea jobs during the international break.
- [06:15]
Reuben Pinder
Yeah. Spurs fans are not shy to show their dissatisfaction towards managers these days. And I understand why. I don't think it's a personal attack on Frank necessarily. I don't think it's specifically him. I think it's a culmination of various factors, various managers that they've been through, you know, a constant kind of flip flopping in style between like, you know, the Conte and Nuno and then Ange Postecoglou are now seemingly going all the way back. And the amount of money that the match going fans pay, I can understand when results and performances are not enthusiasing at all why they would voice that. So, yeah, it's a big opportunity. A Derby win buys a manager a lot of credit. I normally, I used to really look forward to these derbies and I still am looking forward to it, but I don't think it maybe will feel quite as competitive as maybe in the Pochettino Wenger era when both teams were kind of fighting for third, fourth. But that would make a win all the more significant because I think spurs are quite heavily underdogs in this one.
- [07:18]
Matt Davis Adams
Might not be as competitive. Alex might also be quite different stylistically to what we've seen of late in these games. Right, because these are two teams who are pretty cagey of late and it hasn't been a goalless draw between them at the Emirates ever and not when Arsenal were the home team since it's 1998. But we might not get a 54 on Sunday.
- [07:36]
Alex Barker
It's a crazy stat. Look, there's never been a goalless draw at the Emirates.
- [07:40]
Matt Davis Adams
Thanks to my friend Soccer Bass for that one.
- [07:42]
Alex Barker
It might be the. It genuinely might be the game to change it though. Talk about a KG affair. I've been looking into numbers for Arsenal this week as I've been working on a video for them, how they can get more out of Victor Yokaresh. And it's. I think it's so interesting. Like we've spoken a lot about spurs as travels. I think if they don't score a goal it won't be for lack of trying. But for Arsenal, I think they have been a bit conservative this season in quite a lot of areas that some things we don't talk about. Like one thing I noticed is their press actually. So there's a stat from Opta called shots from high turnovers, which is kind of self explanatory how many shots you take from winning the ball high up the pitch. Tottenham and Arsenal both bottom of the league for this. Spurs have taken one shot from a higher turnover, Arsenal have six. And it's because like Arsenal surprisingly aren't pressing that aggressively if you compare them to other Premier League teams. So it's not just like style on the ball. I think you could see both Tottenham and Arsenal giving each other a bit of breathing space when they're trying to build out from the back equally is a derby. Maybe they both go fully for it and this is the game to kind of change both teams here. You also think of the other aspect of this as well. With set pieces, both teams put a lot more effort into them this season. Tottenham are still quite a middling side if you look at the set piece numbers. But Arsenal missing Gabriel for this game. So I know we'll talk about that later, but that is a big goal threat missing for them as well. So maybe it will be the, the goalless draw at the Emirates.
- [09:06]
Matt Davis Adams
Finally just on set pieces. This from Opta, Arsenal have scored both more goals from set pieces, excluding penalties, both overall and as a percentage than any other side in the Premier League this season. Meanwhile, no side have conceded fewer set piece goals than spurs this season. Right? We'll take a little break here. When we come back we'll get into the injuries plaguing both sides and where each will look to hurt each other. Metaphorically not with fouls.
- [09:34]
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- [10:48]
Advertiser
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- [11:53]
Producer/Announcer
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [11:57]
Matt Davis Adams
So Gabriel is out of reach for Mikel Arteta for a while after the Brazilian Colossus picked up an injury playing for Brazil at the Emirates. Much to the delight of Alanis Morissette, presumably Ruben. That's a huge loss for Arsenal because they're going to be without what their best defender but also maybe their biggest goal threat.
- [12:17]
Reuben Pinder
Yeah, the most impactful player in both boxes this season it seems. So it will be a big miss but like I kind of alluded to earlier, they are better prepared for these misses now than they have been in previous seasons. I think we all remember the 22, 23 season when Saliba got injured towards the end of it, Rob holding was the deputy. The gap between those two players was so big that it was so noticeable and their form fell off a cliff. They signed Calafiore and in Kapier for this reason. Right. Both left footed players who can play at centre back or left back and they've got, you know, timber can play at centre back. They have way more options now where there's less of a drop off in quality. It does mean though that they might have to adjust their strategy, adapt their tactics so that they're less reliant on set pieces because you know, the stats that you read out show that they're both reliant on them, which could be spun as a negative thing, but also excellent at them, which obviously if you're that good at them then why not rely on them? So they might have to change a few things. Maybe they've been cooking some set piece routines, some different choreographed runs that don't involve Gabriel. So we'll see. But across the next two months with a busy fixture schedule, they will miss him in this game. Though it doesn't necessarily tip the game in spurs favour.
- [13:31]
Matt Davis Adams
Probably say Alex that in Capier might be more likely than Calafury who I read is an injury doubt to come in for this one.
- [13:38]
Alex Barker
Yeah, I was reading a piece on the Athletic actually about who might come in for this and Calafury as well. Like another point someone made is you don't want to make two changes effectively to Arsenal starting 11, taking Calafuri out of the left back position where, you know, it's not just he started every game in the Premier League. He's been really influential. I think Hicapia probably does come in, but this is just me personally. He's the one Arsenal signing over the summer. I had really big question marks over just from watching him in the Bundesliga. It's not necessarily because he's a bad player or anything. He's just very, very different to Gabriel. Gabriel is a huge athlete and as Ruben said, incredibly influential at set pieces. Not just from goal scoring but just Being a magnet right, Hincapier is under six foot. He's played as both like a left center back in the back three and a left back for Bayer Leverkusen. And that's often been to hide some weakness in the air. He can struggle against bigger strikers. So he's a totally different profile of player to Gabriel. Which really does make you think how is Arsenal's back line going to change? Like the dynamics of it both with and without the ball, like with him in the team, how does it change? Not just set pieces, but the way they defend the partnership alongside Saliba. So I'll have a very close eye to see how Arteta replaces Gabriel and if it is in Kapier, how he gets on.
- [14:52]
Reuben Pinder
It's interesting, isn't it, because he could bring in Luis Skelly and just move Calafiori to left center back and that would retain the element of having two lefties on that side of the pitch. But he could also keep Calafiori at left back for that continuity. Like you say Alex and bring in say Mosquera, but then he would have two right footed centre backs and that obviously affects build up in subtle ways. So yeah, it'll be really interesting to see which of those decisions he goes for because he does have different solutions here, all of which have different pros and different cons.
- [15:22]
Matt Davis Adams
He's got a lot to weigh up. Right, because it's not just defensively. I mean, look at the list of players who might be out in an attacking sense. Joker as Martinelli, Madouke, Odegaard and Havertz. Most if not all of those aren't going to play. So Ruben, does that mean Mikel Marino's being stuck up front again and does that make him a bit more predictable?
- [15:41]
Reuben Pinder
Yeah, possibly. I think Mourinho will start up top. He proved last season that he could do it as a bit of a stopgap, temporary solution. And Gjokores, Martinelli and Madweke, they're very direct options. So it kind of takes away that tactical option from Arteta. Whereas Odegaard, Havertz, they're the kind of players more associated with the slower build up side of how Arsenal play. Now the players that they brought in, like Jokeresh, Madueke, Eze, to an extent, these gave them tactical variety which kind of in theory would make them more unpredictable. So those summer signings were really good from that perspective and without them, Eze, Trossard, Mourinho, it's less of a counter attacking threat. So you assume that they will look to build up slowly and then try to plonk the ball on Marino's head. So in that sense maybe it does make them predictable. But they're so good at it. And you know, with spurs kind of out of possession troubles that we've seen and how badly they defended in their recent defeat to Chelsea, I don't think it will trouble them too much.
- [16:40]
Matt Davis Adams
And let's not forget spurs got plenty of injury issues themselves. Alex Kudus and Bergval might return. Solanke could make the bench, but they haven't got James Madison or Dejan Kulizevski. Nor has Thomas Frank been able to call upon those two all season. This is the first North London derby in more than a decade not to feature Harry Kane or son Heung Min. So who in a Tottenham shirt might give Arsenal some trouble?
- [17:06]
Alex Barker
Well on the theme of Arsenal's left hand side, I think Kurdis would be the main threat if he if he does return for this game because it's more of an Arsenal focus right Califiori but he's been so influential for Arsenal because they give him the freedom to basically float across the pitch and shift inside but also like shift out wide as well to support the left winger. I found when I was looking into Califiori recently for a video we did on the Athletic FC YouTube channel. The games where Califura is more restricted to left back basically his position is the ones where both him and Arsenal tend to do quite a bit worse. So the Newcastle game's a good example. Right. Newcastle are able to basically keep Califiory pinned to his position because Arsenal were afraid of the the threat Newcastle post down the right hand side and ironically Califuri's probably weakest aspect is that 1v1 defending. So I think whoever spurs play on the right has to be someone who can keep Calafiori scared and keep him in that position because not only will you probably get a bit of an advantage by taking him on 1v1 but also you'll take away Arsenal's biggest weapon going forward. One of their biggest weapons set piece.
- [18:14]
Matt Davis Adams
Is something we've mentioned a lot. Ruben Thomas Frank has improved spurs ability to defend them. They've also got better at scoring from them five in the Premier League this season. Are they going to try now Arsenal.
- [18:27]
Reuben Pinder
Arsenal therefore it'd probably be the best strategy to try and get anything from this game. And Alex mentions Spurs needing somebody to ping Alafiori back. The best option to do that is probably Mohamed Kudus rather than say Brendan Johnson. Kudus would also be key in this respect. I think. If you look at the goals that spurs scored from set pieces against Everton, Kudus and Poro were taking those corners. And much like Arsenal rely on Saka and Rice for their in swinging delivery, spurs rely on these two to make that an effective tactic as well. So they'll be hoping that Kudus is fit enough to play and over the course of the season they can maybe become less reliant on those two players down the right who are essentially doing all of their build up and creation this season it seems. But yeah, I mean if you've got Van de Ven to aim for, Richarlison's a decent aerial threat and you've got the deliveries from those two players, then why not?
- [19:19]
Matt Davis Adams
What's the score going to be Alex? You going to go for nil? Nil.
- [19:21]
Alex Barker
Do you know, I think I have. I have to now. I've committed so hard to that scoreline. So it's going to be nil. Nil.
- [19:27]
Matt Davis Adams
Ruben, give me a goal please.
- [19:28]
Reuben Pinder
I'm going to go 1 nil. Arsenal and a Bereze outside the box.
- [19:33]
Producer/Announcer
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [19:37]
Matt Davis Adams
So this is the part of the show where with the help of our partners Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. James Mackey is with us this week ahead of Arsenal Spurs. James will try and keep it friendly given that you support Liverpool and I support Forest. So let's stick to Sunday. Which way do you see this one go?
- [19:56]
James Mackey
Yeah, huge game on Saturday but we're talking about the big game on on Sunday and the the Betfair Sportsbook has the home side Arsenal as the 411 favourites to win the North London Derby and you can see why with the Gunners winning five of their last six Premier League games against Tottenham. Spurs are a huge price at 13:2 really. But they have a dreadful record in in recent North London de with Tottenham losing seven of the last nine Premier League games against Arsenal the draw is priced at 3:1 and I think spurs would snatch your hand off right now for that draw away from home with Arsenal. How they're playing and how they've started the season so very dominant odds wise with Arsenal.
- [20:33]
Matt Davis Adams
Interesting because we've been talking about spurs being better away and obviously Arsenal's injury problems. But spurs have got plenty of those as well and what Arsenal have got are a couple of match winners still left in their ranks. I believe they feature in your bet builder this week.
- [20:46]
James Mackey
Yes they do. Yeah. First of all, we'll start with the main man, Bukayo Saka, who's created two plus chances in six of his last eight Premier League appearances. He notched a goal against Sunderland and I think it could be hard to stop on Sunday and I'm putting him in the bet builder at 138 to score any time against Tottenham. Staying down the Arsenal theme, I'm going to focus on Eze. In three of his last six Premier League appearances for Arsenal, he's recorded four shots, including last time out against Sunderland. He's four to six to have just three shots in the game and I think that looks a really nice boost to the bet builder. And finally, in seven of his last eight Premier League appearances for Tottenham Hotspur, Joao Polina has made four plus tackles. He's in that engine room and just a bit of a snotter isn't he loves to just go around and get himself in trouble. He was carded against Man United and I can see the same happening again on Sunday and he's 13 to 10 to pick up a card anytime in the game. So overall those three selections come together for a nine to one bet builder. And the beauty of the sacker to score anytime and Paolini to be carded, Betsy, is that safe subs attached to that, meaning that if those legs haven't won and they come off and the player that replaced them carries on that leg of the bet. So it's a great tool, Matt, for punters to take advantage of this season on enabled markets.
- [21:57]
Matt Davis Adams
Yep, sounds good to me. Snotter is not a phrase that I've ever heard before, but I will be using it liberally from now on. James, I hope you enjoy the game on Sunday. I hope you have an absolutely miserable Saturday though.
- [22:08]
James Mackey
Thanks as ever you do, Matt.
- [22:11]
Producer/Announcer
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betweh.
- [22:16]
Matt Davis Adams
Manchester City going to aim to put some pressure on Arsenal. They face Newcastle United at St James's Park. This is the Saturday tee time kickoff. Of course, Alex Erling Haaland has been grabbing the headlines. 14 Premier League goals so far this season. Next will be his 100th in the competition. But I wanted to ask you about Jeremy Doku. How's Pep getting so much more from him this season than he has previously.
- [22:39]
Alex Barker
Glad you asked about him because I think he's a player who's been quite disrespected for a couple of years now and honestly the answer is almost in the opposite of the question. How Guardiola is getting more out of Jeremy Doku. There Definitely has been a shift that I think a lot of us have covered recently. How Guardiola's moved Doku to more of an inside position, allowing him a bit more space in midfield to run at defenders. So that's definitely come into it. But I. I think with Jeremy Doku, his greatest strengths almost also his biggest weakness ever since he broke through at Rennes, he's been one of the best dribblers in Europe. But I think if you look at him in previous Manchester City seasons, he's almost been too good for his teammates. There'll be moments where they just almost seem to struggle to read him as much as the opposition defenders. So he'll end up putting a cross into nobody because someone either hasn't made a run or misread which direction he's going to put the cross in or which direction he's going to run. I was looking at some of the comments Manchester City players have made across the start of the season. I think Haaland especially has come out and said that he's worked a lot, lot with Doku over the last like few months on, just trying to build a better understanding with him. And I think you can see that in him and other players too. When Doku is on that left wing and he takes someone on, I think there's a much clearer understanding of whether he's going to cut the ball back or put it in the near post and those Manchester City players making those runs to meet the ball. So credit definitely has to go to Guardiola. I think he's like, by bringing Doku inside a bit more, it's giving him a bit more space and giving center backs a bit more terror with him. But equally, I think this is just the benefit of time and also the benefit of a young player just finally coming into his own and others begin to understand, like his tendencies.
- [24:18]
Matt Davis Adams
As for Newcastle, really poor start in the Premier League for them. They're in 14th position and they've won one of their last 35 games against Manchester City. Where is Eddie Howe going to be thinking that he can exploit City if anywhere?
- [24:34]
Alex Barker
Alex yeah, it's a tricky one. I think a lot of the issues that you might have been able to exploit with Man City that were shown in the beginning of the season have kind of disappeared. I think the main one being the start of the season. Manchester City, maybe influenced by new assistant coach Pep Blinders, were pressing really aggressively up the pitch. But since then Guardiola has really tightened things up and if you look at the underlying numbers expected Goals against and just shots against. The majority of what City have conceded came in those first few fixtures. The one area I will pinpoint is Giannuigi Donnarumma, which goes against a culture that I think a lot of people believe in at the moment. Donnarumma got a very strong reputation but as someone who watched him make many errors at psg, watching league earn games that no one else wanted to, I'm still seeing signs of someone who can be got at set pieces where you can crowd around him and he can get a bit flustered in his own six yard box. So I think Newcastle then get some set pieces and rain down on Donnarumma. They might be able to cause a shock for some people.
- [25:35]
Matt Davis Adams
Okay, that's a decent pitch to be James Trafford's new agent as well. Alex really enjoyed that Newcastle are two points above the relegation zone, Ruben. I mean they're going to have to pull their finger out pretty soon, aren't they? Otherwise they're going to be in full blown crisis mode. No.
- [25:48]
Reuben Pinder
Yeah, it's a really bizarre case that Newcastle are in at the moment. They still pretty strong at home. Three wins, two losses. And those losses were against Arsenal and that really late winner from Liverpool before Liverpool's form fell off a cliff. So respectable home form, terrible away form. And it seems to follow the pattern of when they're in Europe they suffer from the fixture congestion. They can't press as intensely as Eddie Howe might want them to and that seems to have a kind of knock on effect on their results because maybe they don't find a different solution to compromise for that lack of pressing intensity. So yeah, they're a really weird team this season. It's difficult to predict. Maybe they're still adjusting to the departure of Alexander Isak. Obviously Valtemada has had really bright moments but is a very different type of player. So the chemistry needs to build between him and the wingers as he likes to drop deep rather than pin centre backs back towards their own goal. Anthony Gordon's suspension didn't help but since he's come back he's not looked particularly at his best. If they can get a result against Man City, obviously huge confidence booster but I think the main factor this season, like I said, is is the kind of fixture congestion and this follows a pattern of the past when they've been in and out of the Champions League. So maybe it's a squad depth issue. Maybe Eddie Howe needs to come up with a kind of more sustainable approach for the seasons that they are in Europe.
- [27:13]
Matt Davis Adams
So that's 5:30 on Saturday. One of the three o' clock kickoffs is at Anfield where Nottingham Forest are looking to win consecutive games for the first time since 1963. The two time European champions won there for the first time since 1969. Last term they face at Liverpool side Plagued with problems, Florian Burtz has been struggling to adapt well. He's going to have a couple of weeks off because he is injured as is Connor Bradley. There's a lack of balance between consistency and rotation. Konate's form is not good. They've started games slowly, they're fragile from set pieces, they got fitness issues galore. Ruben, I promise I'm not just trying to hype this as a Forest fan that we might have a chance of winning, but where does Arnas slot even start? Because it's not like he's even going to have been able to spend much time on the training ground with most of his team over the last fortnight to work on these issues. Right, because they've all been here, there and everywhere across the world.
- [28:07]
Reuben Pinder
Yeah, I mean it's really incredible how you can spend so much money on such good players and kind of be in the position that they're in. And I don't think it's necessarily Arneslot's fault entirely. The spending was slightly imbalanced, but I'm sure we've covered that in previous weeks. I did sense a bit of a shift towards maybe a more cautious or sensible kind of selection in recent weeks where maybe not all of the new signings have had to play at once. Wirtz has maybe been played over to the left so that Szoboslag can play in the middle and get that maybe solidity from last season's midfield trio back rather than kind of playing. Virs is the 10. That seems to leave Graven, Birkin, McAllister or whoever's next to him a little bit more vulnerable. However, having said that, maybe it sounds like they won't be able to do that. If both Bradley and Frimpong are out, we could probably see Szoboszlai return to that unfamiliar position of right back that he's been filling in at in recent weeks. It's reminiscent of when Milner played left back a lot under Jurgen Klopp, kind of a victim of his own versatility and reliability. Wirtz's absence may allow Cody Gakpo to come back in on the left wing. I thought he was. He seems to have been a kind of consistently dangerous threat on the left and maybe a bit Unlucky to lose his place. But that's what happens when you spend so much money on players. Right. There's, there's like political ramifications for selection choices. So a good opportunity for him to.
- [29:31]
Matt Davis Adams
Nail that place back comfortably beaten Alex at City before the break. If we're being glass half full though last two home games for him they've beaten Villa and Real Madrid to nil. And after this maybe the Premier League fixture. This looks a little kinder next for West Ham, Sunderland, Leeds and Brighton. So an opportunity starting on Saturday to put a run together maybe.
- [29:52]
Alex Barker
Yeah, potentially. I think you could take that fixture run two ways. So the first way you could take it is you guys have outlined a lot of the problems Liverpool have had. There's an article from Liverpool staff about the 11 problems Arnis Slot's having to solve at the moment. And there's so many they just crash into each other. Right. There's a lot of the new signings not working out but also injury issues that seen injury issues as well that mean some of the new signs you've had to force in but also like lack of consistency for everyone as well. Which kind of brings me to why I think like this kind of fixture run might not be as kind as we think. It kind of goes back to spurs where I think Liverpool's weaknesses at the moment on the ball. I look at them and I see a team. I remember last season the plan was very clear. Get Mo Salah the ball and basically build the team around maximizing Mohamed Salah prioritizing back post crosses or just isolating on the right so he could do magic cut inside and score. Whereas this season obviously Salah isn't playing quite as well. He's also been surrounded by a group of different players and it just feels like those players change on a game by game basis and they haven't really got the understanding yet between each other to play at a tempo in order to break down weaker sides. I do wonder if this kind of fixture on actually brings more quote unquote shock results. And we're back to talking about Liverpool struggling this season.
- [31:09]
Matt Davis Adams
I hope so. Certainly from from Saturday evening. Where could Forest potentially hurt them do you think? Reuben? We mentioned Liverpool's injuries. Forest got a fair few themselves. Ina Backwards, Zinchenko, Wood, Douglas, Luiz, Callum, Hudson Odoi could return. That'd be interesting to see if Deutsch started him. He came off the bench to win this game last season.
- [31:28]
Reuben Pinder
Yeah, I mean Liverpool have looked most vulnerable to me when their two centre backs become Quickly isolated against the counter attack. We saw this a lot in that. In that Brentford game. Van Dijk, as good as he is, seems to be mortal and aging. Konate's not been in his best form as we as we've established. So I think Hudson Odoi, if fit enough will be a huge weapon especially with Liverpool's right back problems if he can play on the left. So in kind of classic Forest fashion, what they were good at last season, I think Gibbs White, Hudson Odoi combining to hit Liverpool on the break and catch them when maybe the fullbacks are out of position is probably their best bet as well as obviously keeps coming up in every fixture. We discuss set pieces with the kind of Milinkovic and the strikers, the striker options that Forest have against Liverpool who only really have two kind of towering presences in their center backs and everyone else is less of a threat either defending or attacking set pieces. That could also be a way that Forest can hurt Liverpool. So it feels like it's all set up for a classic Liverpool have 70% of the ball don't quite click in trying to break down a low block, get hit on the break and lose 1 nil to Forest. So yeah, let's see what happens.
- [32:41]
Matt Davis Adams
I quite like what I've seen from Igor Jesus certainly in the in the Europa League. I think he might be able to worry Van Dijk and Canate a little. And also Alex Sean Deitch seems to be getting more of a tune out of Morgan Gibbs White of late, couple of goals in his last couple of games. And crucially perhaps he hasn't been away with England. So as we've said, it wasn't the case with slot massive for Deutsche that he would have had a lot of his players available to to absorb his methods over the past fortnight.
- [33:08]
Alex Barker
Yeah, absolutely. I think Gibbs White as well, he'd been playing quite well at the start of the season and then when postecoglou came in, I think stability at Forest is just completely lost. I think the advantage they'll get in this game though and going forward is an advantage we've not spoken about yet. And that's some of the new signings we spoke about. Gibbs White for example, and Hudson Odoi. But Forest made a lot of signings near the end of the window and as we later found out, that's basically a way to try and appease Nuno. Essentially just try and bring in signings in when they'd spent a lot of the summer not making new signings. And then when postecoglou came in, he tried to mix a few and ended up kind of falling back on the tried and tested, but now we're starting to see them come in a bit more. You know, Omari Hutchinson I think was omitted from the Europa League squad, right? He had a really good performance in the last Forest fixture. You've also got Arnold Calumwendo on the bench who had a really good year last season in Ligue 1 with Rennes. I'm quite excited to see him actually get proper minutes in the Premier League. So there are a few other new Forest signings. I'm quite excited to see if Daesh can start bringing into the team because I think for a lot of people there'll be complete unknowns and that might be a way to get at Liverpool as well, bring in something a bit unexpected.
- [34:17]
Reuben Pinder
It's easy to forget about them as well, isn't it? Because I think under postecogli there was at least one game where maybe there was £100 million worth of new attacking talent that didn't even make the matchday squad like James McAtee. Another name that that kind of slips our mind. So yeah, they've got lots of options. I'd like to see more of Hutchinson. I really liked him last season as well. I hope.
- [34:44]
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- [36:17]
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This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair Fair.
- [36:21]
Matt Davis Adams
Manchester United looking to get back to winning ways. After consecutive two twos against Forest and Spurs. They host Everton. They're unbeaten in five. Alex, it's your turn to face the most asked question on Premier League podcast. Has Reuben Amarin turned a corner with Manchester United and what's changed?
- [36:39]
Alex Barker
Oh dear, it's the most asked question and I feel like I speak about Ruben Amber in every week at the moment. I think sitting on the fence it's too early to say. I know what an interesting answer that I know a lot of Manchester United fans, they're very eager, you know for positive signs and as well just positive news, right and positive coverage I think since they've spent the last year basically being rained down on by all of us as they've struggled. But I, I have been watching the last couple of Manchester United games. I do think the ball seems to be moving quicker amongst their players. I've spoken a lot today about like understanding between players and I think you could maybe argue that the system is finally being understood in a way. I think particularly the way Manchester United able to quickly switch out to the right hand side that's been catching the last couple of teams off guard. It certainly worked against Sunderland as well. Let's see over more matches if Manchester United can consistently score goals and also can they keep opponents away from their goal a bit more? United often concede so much territory and allow teams to get near their goal and sure maybe the goals end up conceding lucky and spurs one of them's from a set piece and you think ah, you know that won't happen every game but if you keep allowing, allowing teams to get near your box when you're one goal ahead then you will end up conceding these goals because by chance that these teams are going to spend so long near your goal that it's going to happen at some point. So I do think there have been positive signs but there are issues I'm still a bit on the fence on and I'm still unsure whether we'll see progress on Everton.
- [38:13]
Matt Davis Adams
Not great away from home this season. Reuben Starting the weekend 14th only won one of their last 32 at Old Trafford and that that was when David Moyes was in the home dugout. Did you give them any chance here?
- [38:26]
Reuben Pinder
Everyone's got A chance against Manchester United. You don't know which version of that team is going to turn up. But you know, like Alex said, United have improved in some areas, but on the point of allowing the opponents too close to their goal, they conceded two goals in each of their last three games. So that is a. That's a concern. Whether Everton can pose enough of a goal threat to continue that trend is another matter. They seem to lack a bit of kind of cutting edge in the number nine position. They'll be pleased though that Grealish has had full rest over the international break. Kieran and Dewsbury hall returned before the break, I think from his suspension and those two seem to have developed nice chemistry and attack. So if they can exploit that space between Ahmad Diallo and Lenny Yoro, that's assuming Ahmad starts as a right wing back. That's the kind of space that Grealish and Gbury hall will want to combine in. So they certainly can pose a threat. But I think United still very much heavy favorites. Even last season when United were not in this kind of positive moment to use a managerism, they still beat Everton 4 0. So Everton can definitely pose a threat, but I wouldn't be backing them to win.
- [39:34]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, so that's Monday night. Let's go Rapid fire through the rest of the weekend's fixtures which start at 12:30 on Saturday at Turfmoor. Burnley against Chelsea Enzemoresca has confirmed Cole Palmer will miss the next three games. He broke his toe stubbing it on a door at home. Reuben, what's more painful, stubbing your toe or banging your funny bone?
- [39:56]
Reuben Pinder
Stubbing your toe, definitely. Yeah. Poor old Cole Palmer.
- [39:59]
Matt Davis Adams
Do you think he blamed the door? Cause that's what I always do in that situation. You want to have a wild swipe at the door after it happens, right? And then that just makes it worse.
- [40:07]
Reuben Pinder
I imagine his muscle memory had him appealing to a non existent referee. Maybe waving an imaginary yellow coat card. They'll miss him again, won't they? I still think they'll be okay despite their kind of injury problems and constant rotation. You asked for quickfire. Let's go. Chelsea 2 nil.
- [40:25]
Matt Davis Adams
All right. They usually get four at Burnley, so that's going to be my prediction for that one. Bournemouth West Ham Alex, did you know the Hammers are the Cherries bogey team? They've not won any of their last nine meetings against West Ham in all comps. Might be a good time to face them as well, being pretty comprehensively before the break. Semeno may be unsettled by all this January transfer talk.
- [40:47]
Alex Barker
That's a good stat. But I can counter the stat with another one which if I've read it right on the website I have, is that Nuno has not actually beaten Andoni Iriola as a manager. So it's all, you know, both teams have to win this one. But yeah, on the Semenya point obviously won't want to lose him but I know it probably just motivates him to do better. So if we're going quick fire here, I'm going to lean on Andoni Arreola over that you've gave so I will go Bournemouth to West Ham nil.
- [41:17]
Matt Davis Adams
Also, Nuno lost five nil at Bournemouth on his birthday last season, so surely it's not going to be worse than that for him. Wolves v Crystal Palace Ruben, it's Rob Edwards debut. Does that trouble you in terms of a bounce slash vibe shift? You are a Palace fan. Could be a tougher afternoon for your boys than it would have been under Vitor Pereira.
- [41:37]
Reuben Pinder
Yeah, probably slightly tougher if there's, if there's some positive change in their environment in terms of a new manager bounce. It does also require maybe some better players than they have in their squad. That might sound harsh, but I think Wolves have just kind of let their squad deteriorate over the last couple of seasons, not replacing their star players who left. I'm interested to see whether Edwards plays with a three, which I believe he played at Luton quite often, or sticks with the four that he'd been playing at Middlesbrough. Given the palace play quite religiously a 343 to whether he matches up in that shape or not. But yeah, despite the new manager bounce, I do feel mostly confident that palace will come away with all three points.
- [42:20]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, elsewhere, Brentford versus Brighton. The Benham Bloom Derby. They don't like each other because of betting beef. Which team Alex is going to finish higher in the league this season, Brentford or Brighton?
- [42:30]
Alex Barker
It's so hard to say because Brighton are possibly the most unpredictable team in the Premier League at the moment, which is actually does make me say Brentford. I'm actually pretty surprised by the fact both teams are on the same points at the moment because Brighton should be doing a lot better. Brentford have surprised us. I'm a bit disappointed by Brighton so far. So which team finishes hard this season? We will go Brentford.
- [42:52]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, Fulham, Sunderland, Reuben. The bookies have got Fulham down as more likely to be relegated than the Black Cats. Would you agree with that?
- [42:59]
Reuben Pinder
I mean at the start of the season. No. Given the trend of promoted teams going straight back down. But now, absolutely, yes. I mean, Fulham have one of the oldest squads in the league. Average age of 28, which is obviously not old, but for a Premier League squad is above average. So that I think has led to them feeling quite predictable. They seem to lack a bit of attacking, cutting edge and yeah, a little bit pedestrian compared to the teams around them. Maybe it's going a little bit stale, maybe that's harsh and they'll pick up. But yeah, nobody feels scared of Fulham at the moment. And it's the opposite of Sunderland, who, you know, have invested quite heavily after their promotion in very young players. They're a very physical team this season and that seems to be working. I mean, Sunderland could completely drop off and put up terrible form now and they'll still probably be okay, whereas Fulham really need an uptick in form.
- [43:51]
Matt Davis Adams
And last of all, Alex Leeds against Aston Villa Sunday, two o' clock for that one. Surprised Daniel Farker's still in post for this?
- [43:59]
Alex Barker
Not necessarily, but I think that's only because I'm still living in the headspace of a few weeks ago where we're talking about Leeds actually starting the season quite well and I know there's been a bit of a downturn since then. That said, I think Villa are still a bit shaky. They're actually second bottom in the Premier League for xg, which is going under the radar. They've picked up form but I'm not necessarily sure how strong the foundation is. So we'll be nice to Leeds in this game. We'll go 1 nil. Leeds.
- [44:25]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, well, loads of great games to look forward to this weekend and that's how we're going to leave it for today. My thanks to Alex, to Ruben, to producer Jay, and mostly to you. You for listening. Enjoy the football. We'll catch up with you again soon.
- [44:40]
Producer/Announcer
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producer was J. Beal and the presenter was Matt Davis Adams executive producers are Abby Patterson and A.Y.
- [44:48]
Reuben Pinder
Moorhead.
- [44:49]
Producer/Announcer
The Athletic FC Podcast is an Athletic media company production and proudly sponsored by Betfair.
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