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- [00:01]
Ulta Beauty Advertiser
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- [00:30]
Kerys Jones
Tired of presenting to tuned out rooms? Research says you've got 47 seconds before.
- [00:36]
Mark Critchley
Your audience gets distracted. AHA slides turn sleepy slides into engaging experiences.
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Mark Critchley
Polls, quizzes, and word clouds that wake up the room and keep their attention. Try it now. It's free for audiences of up to 50 people. Go to www.ahaslides.com aha slides what will you do with all the engagement?
- [01:01]
Podcast Announcer/Advertiser
Hey, it's Marc Maron from WTF here to let you know that this podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. And I'm sure the reason you're listening to this podcast right now is because you chose it well. Choose Progressive's name your price tool and you could find insurance options that fit your budget so you can pick the best one for your situation. Who doesn't like choice? Try it@progressive.com and now some legal info but Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law not available in all states.
- [01:38]
Matt Davis Adams
The Athletic FC welcome to the preview from the Athletic fc. It's the show where we get you set for the weekend's Premier League action. This week we're focusing on the top two tussle. It's Chelsea versus Arsenal and joining me today we have Mark Critchley. Welcome back Mark.
- [01:58]
Mark Critchley
Hi, thanks for having me. Good to be here.
- [02:01]
Matt Davis Adams
It is our pleasure and making her preview debut. Kerys Jones. How you doing Keris?
- [02:06]
Kerys Jones
I'm good, thank you. Thank you for having me.
- [02:08]
Matt Davis Adams
You are both most welcome. As well as Sunday's showdown, we're going to take a look over some of the other key games taking place on matchday 13 in the Premier League. But first let's get to our feature presentation. Chelsea have won just one of their last 11 Premier League games against Arsenal and and they are winless in the last seven. They trail the Gunners by six points going into Sunday so could find themselves three behind or nine adrift by full time. Shout out to our old friend Mathematics there for providing the requisite jeopardy. Critch. It's so rare we can use the phrase Six pointer. Without the prefix relegation, which side's going to make the biggest statement here?
- [02:46]
Mark Critchley
Do you think I'm going to take Umbridge with that first point? I don't think if we can use the phrase six pointer at the top end of the table, particularly in November, but okay, let's just accept the premise of the question. I think if anybody's going to make a statement out of this game, it's going to be Chelsea. Like what. What would happen if Arsenal won this game? What would we learn what we know? We'd know that Arsenal are the best team in the League, that they're overwhelming favorites for the title. And we know that already if Chelsea can win this game, they cut the gap down to three points and I think we start to have a serious, you know, thought at least and consideration as to whether there is a title race. I hope there's a title race because I feel like maybe three or four weeks ago it felt like there would be one. Then we saw Liverp fall away. We've seen City stumble a little bit, City be there and thereabouts. But Chelsea have kind of come up on the rails over the last few weeks as a potential contender. I do think they've had a relatively kind run of late. Burnley, Wolves and then even before that, this version of Tottenham Hotspur at the moment. And so you have to take that into account. But if they manage to pick up three points on Sunday against undoubtedly the best team in the league, the toughest test that they'll face so far this season, well, then everybody's going to have to sit up and take notice. So it's absolutely Chelsea with everything to play for on Sunday, would you reckon?
- [04:01]
Matt Davis Adams
Caris, you've seen quite a bit of Chelsea lately. Do you think they can rattle Arsenal here?
- [04:05]
Kerys Jones
I think they've got the potential to and they've come off. I'm sure we'll talk about probably one of their, their best results the season against Barcelona in the Champions League. But I tend to agree with Critch, like for Arsenal a win is, is expected. They're definitely the favorites for the game based on form, based on the fact that Chelsea haven't really had to face other Champions League chasing sides so much yet, with the exception of the Serena's is to say Sunderland. But yeah, I think that in a sense this is almost a free hit for Enzo Maresca. As long as Chelsea are not humiliated, I think a defeat would be. No one could have a massive complaint about it as long as it wasn't in kind of a humiliating manner. Where they didn't take the game to Arsenal, where they didn't offer anything. If Chelsea come out of this game with, I don't know, a 21 defeat, they will be disappointed, of course, and it will have an impact on their kind of title credentials. But it's also what's expected. I think it's Arsenal that have got much more to lose here.
- [05:03]
Matt Davis Adams
That game against Barcelona on Tuesday night. How significant do you think that'll be in terms of just giving Chelsea some confidence that they can do something against an established heavyweight?
- [05:13]
Kerys Jones
It is the best confidence boost that they could have had. I mean, let's be really clear that Arsenal will be a much tougher test than Barcelona. Barcelona played their sort of high line and Chelsea exploited that really well. Panicked them. Barcelona ended up down to 10. Not to take away from how Chelsea performed. But Arsenal, Arsenal will be much more kind of disciplined. They'll be much more, I would say, mature in their defending. So that's going to be a very different test for them. But in terms of confidence, in terms of establishing themselves as a top side, that sort of comprehensive win against Barcelona is where bear in mind, they're the first side to have a clean sheet against a Hansi Flick side in the Champions League, which is pretty incredible. So the defense is, is on a good bit of momentum as well.
- [05:58]
Matt Davis Adams
As for Arsenal, they took a metaphorical scalp, which can only be described as notable on Wednesday when they became the first team to beat Bayern Munich this season. A statement victory. Then Crich from Mikel Arteta's side. The potential for this to be an incredible week for them, given that they began it by beating Spurs.
- [06:14]
Mark Critchley
Yeah, absolutely. Really convincing win, deserved win, comprehensive performance. I noticed Arsenal didn't have a lot of the ball the other night, but then that just doesn't matter, does it? Because we know that they defend so well. Even the one moment that Bayern get where they get their goal and concede down Miles Louis Kelly's side, he didn't have a great night, but then you expect Riccardo Califiore to come back in on Sunday. And so it's back to the first choice lineup. But yeah, like I say, if a team in Europe had started as well as Arsenal this season, it's buy in and they were made to look absolutely second best. And I think that just goes to show just how, just how imperious this Arsenal side is at the minute. People talking about them being best in Europe, probably one of the best in the world, it's hard to argue with that.
- [06:53]
Matt Davis Adams
Only negative for them, Karius midweek was Trossard's injury because he's been in good form. But Madwaque and Martinelli both back. Amongst the goals Martinelli scored in this fixture last season, Madwaque wore blue in it. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that they've got a pretty deep squad this season.
- [07:10]
Kerys Jones
Yeah, they're in a happy situation where even if Trossard's not available, which I don't think we've heard from Arteta yet, so we're not totally clear, but even if Trossard's not available, they have plenty of different threats that they can throw down that wing instead. Chelsea fans will know how direct Mado Ake is and the kind of threat that he can produce. There's obviously, you know, he'll have a bee in his bonnet for this game as well, so just goes to show the. The depth that they have and they've got a really good degree of competition in that squad at the moment to kind of bring the best out of all of them.
- [07:40]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, as we mentioned earlier, Estebao was handed a start against Barcelona midweek. He didn't disappoint Keris. Enzo Maresca has done a decent job, I think, so far this season of, of protecting him by not putting him in from the off every weekend. He's got to start here, though, hasn'?
- [07:55]
Kerys Jones
I don't necessarily think so. I'm still very much in the camp of, yeah, Esteban did really well when he's had this start against Barcelona. Performed really well from the start of the game, was able to do so. But as I've kind of already mentioned, Arsenal are going to make it a lot harder for him than Barcelona did. He's not going to have anywhere near as much space in behind. He doesn't always need it. He's got great trickery, great footwork. But what has worked really well for Chelsea in the Premier League is having this little tag team of Pedro Neto starting on the right, who can just effectively make the left back sprint up and down for an hour and tire them out. And then Esteval comes on and they're too tired to even think straight and he can just walk past them, which is not to undermine what he's been doing at all. He's been performing really, really well. But I think that if he's able to have that impact off the bench rather than from the start, considering how keen we know Chelsea are to rotate their squad and to protect their players, considering his age, considering his relative lack of Premier League experience. I don't think there's anything wrong with using him for impact in a game like this. Obviously the people who are in the stadium will probably disagree because they'll want to see him play, but that's a really nice problem for Chelsea to have.
- [09:05]
Matt Davis Adams
And in terms of Chelsea set up more broadly crit, might they take a leaf out of spurs book? But as in how not to approach playing Arsenal. Tottenham went all defensive, didn't work at all. Do you think Chelsea more likely to take the game to the Gunners? Is there more onus on them to do so as the home team?
- [09:22]
Mark Critchley
Well, I think Chelsea have an advantage over Tottenham in that they can actually pass a ball through midfield and that helps if you're going to take that sort of approach. And I don't think it was so much Tottenham playing defensively last week. It's just that they weren't able to hurt Arsenal, they weren't able to attack them properly. That's not really Chelsea's problem. I think they're only a goal short of the highest scorers behind Arsenal and City this season. I think if you look at the underlying numbers, they've got the highest xg. Watching the performances recently, players standing out that not necessarily always expected them to get into goals. I'm thinking Enzo Fernandez, his late arrivals into the box. Watching Alejandro Garnacho recently, I covered him a lot. Manchester United, he seems to be sort of finessing his game a little bit more, which was always an issue with him. I thought he's making the right decisions more often. And then, you know, we've already spoke about Esteban there. He's just been sensational. So Chelsea have all the tools to take a game to Arsenal and you need them. As I was saying before, with this Arsenal defence, it's just so. It's just so. It feels impenetrable at times. But if there's a team in the league that can hurt them, City included, I think it is Chelsea. Just because they've really impressed in terms of going forward underscore this season.
- [10:26]
Matt Davis Adams
Particularly impressive Kerrys, given that they've been without Cole Palmer for so long now. What's Enzo Maresca going to do without him on Sunday? Do you think we might see what we saw in midweek where he goes with Pedro Neto up front rather than a natural striker?
- [10:40]
Kerys Jones
I think more likely to tweak from that setup just because I think the main reason Neto started up front was to exploit that Barcelona high line with just kind of packing the front line with as much pace as possible, whereas I think against Arsenal that's not going to be as much of a weapon. I think to the few teams that have managed to get to Arsenal's defence this season and get in behind, it's been by kind of using the wings and going as direct as they can that way. Before putting the ball into the box. You probably want kind of Liam de Lapp as your big target man in there. He's just finally got his first Stamford Bridge goal against Barcelona, so hopefully that creates a little bit of momentum for him. He's not necessarily even as kind of as much of an aerial threat as you would think, but he is a target man and a distraction for others, like Lorenzo Fernandez for instance, to be arriving on the edge of the box where he's had a lot of joy this season. So I think it could be a good game for the lap and then I would expect Neto to move back out to the right, most likely Garnacho to start on the left. I think we'll have the the nod ahead of ahead of Gittens and then probably to stick with the same sort of defensive lineup in terms of having Malo Gusto, a right back, Rhys James stepping up into midfield. I just think that James has done well in that sort of composure, that settling role in the holding midfield alongside Caicedo, whereas Gusto doesn't have the issue of being constantly scared that his hamstring's going to go and fans being constantly scared that his hamstring's going to go. So not really wanting to go for a sprint up and down the touchline. James covers a lot of ground, but I think not having to expose himself to those bursts has definitely helped him to stay fit.
- [12:18]
Podcast Announcer/Advertiser
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- [14:44]
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- [15:30]
Mark Critchley
Foreign.
- [15:37]
Podcast Announcer/Advertiser
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [15:41]
Matt Davis Adams
Speaking of injury prone players, that links us nicely to Martin Odegaard, who returned to the matchday squad for Arsenal against Bayern. Came on for the last 10 minutes. Tough though crit to see him taking the place of Eberichie Azza even though he's the club captain. Do you think Arteta will be able to shunt them both into the team maybe as it gets moved out to the left 2 number tens? Or is Erdogan going to have to be patient to get back in?
- [16:04]
Mark Critchley
I think as to start, I think he has to start just given the form that he's in. I can see the argument for Odegaard coming in. I think he's very important for Arsenal out of possession, so there's that. But the form that as he's in, even though you know he wasn't on the score sheet the other night, some of the touches he was producing against Bayern Munich, just remarkable. And then coming off the back of that hat trick obviously as well. Could you squeeze both in maybe, given that Arsenal don't really have a recognized striker at the moment, but I do think Mourinho helps as a sort of reference point, a focal point within this Arsenal way of playing. I hate the cliche. It's the nice headaches to have, isn't it? This is why you invest in the squad in the manner that Arsenal did in the summer. The depth is extraordinary. They've been able to fade injuries like Odegaard's this season without it costing them too much. And the several injuries that they've had, really, they've always had players in reserve to call upon. So you know as players come back, yeah, that's going to be a bit more of a headache. But then that's no bad thing really.
- [16:55]
Matt Davis Adams
Declan Rice full of praise for Moises Caicedo in an interview with CBS after they beat Bayern. Two players who are emblematic of modern day football in a lot of ways and two players we haven't spoken about yet, grits but are likely to be influential figures on this match.
- [17:11]
Mark Critchley
I can't believe we've not spoken about him yet, because I feel like we've already had this debate all season long, and it feels like we should have played each other already. We seem up against each other. I saw Carragher talking to him on CBS the other night, and he mentioned Keane vs. Vieira. I don't think it's going to have that same sort of aggression. I would love to say it will, but even in Rice's answer on Caicedo, he's saying, look, I've got to respect my fellow players. And whatever he should be saying, I'll see you out there, Moises. Let's have it. You can't talk about Julian Timber like that or whatever. So I would like to think there was going to be that sort of aggression. I'm not sure there will be. But the two, they are two fantastic players. I think it's nice that after being absolutely sewn up that Rodri was the best midfielder in the league and in the world, and he's the current Ballon d' or holder as well, we have got two new challenges to that throne, and that's a bit of a different debate around it. And look, let's just say, shall we. I know you're going to ask me the inevitable question, which one are we picking? If I'm going to go for one, it's going to be Declan Rice, I think, just at the minute, just because if you wanted a pure number six holding midfielder, then absolutely. Moises Caicedo's got all the attributes and ingredients that you'd want. But I think we've seen a little bit of a different side to Rice's game this season, playing that little bit more advanced. And so I'm just about shading it for him.
- [18:24]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, so you're with producer Jay, who was shaking his head in disbelief when I said it's Caicedo for me, Caris, I think part of that for both me and for Jay is that I watch Caicedo every week and he will watches Rice every week, which obviously colors your opinion. What do you reckon? Because Caicedo has added goals to his game this season, which is worth making note of.
- [18:44]
Kerys Jones
Yeah, I. Obviously, I'll caveat mine with what you've just said, that I watch Caicedo every week as well, but for me, he shades it as well. And as we've said, they're both similar profiles of players, both incredible players. But I think that it does Caicedo a bit of a disservice to kind of imply that he doesn't add as much going forward, whenever he is absent, whenever he has just like pulled over to the side with a knock or something, whenever he is being marked out of the game. The difference that that makes to Chelsea's build up is like night and day. Everything pretty much goes through him is the way that Enzo Maresca wants to play doesn't always happen. And I think Chelsea need to come up with more creative solutions for when teams mark Caicedo out of the game because they've kind of learned to do that in certain cases. But yeah, I think he contributes so much in the build up. But also, like you've just mentioned, he has added a couple of lovely goals to his CV as well. So I think Rice, on the face of it looks like he has kind of a much better output numerically. But Caicedo also doesn't have the kind of boost of taking set pieces as well, which I guess Rhys does. But it's a shame that they're both so respectful and we're not gonna get a proper scrap. It'll be a very elegant sort of sword fight rather than a bust up.
- [19:58]
Matt Davis Adams
Maybe put that bit up for next week's show when they both get sent off having an on pitch brawl on Sunday. That's a prediction of sorts. Karis, tell me what the score's gonna be on Sunday, please.
- [20:09]
Kerys Jones
I think Arsenal will take all three points, but I don't think it will be a walkover unless. My only caveat to that is I think where Chelsea are in trouble is if Arsenal take an early goal. Chelsea really haven't had to come from behind very often this season at all and so we have no idea if they can do it. They've got the attacking quality and their defence has been shored up a lot recently. But I think if Arsenal kind of knock the wind out of Stamford Bridge with an early goal, I think Chelsea could be in real trouble.
- [20:39]
Matt Davis Adams
Same for you, Critch. Away win a one one.
- [20:42]
Mark Critchley
I'm going for not as much reasoning as Kerry clearly haven't thought about it hard enough.
- [20:46]
Kerys Jones
But it's my job to be fair.
- [20:49]
Mark Critchley
It's a good Arsenal defence, it's a good Chelsea attack, but I can see them cancelling out each other to an extent. So I'm going one one.
- [20:55]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, 4:30 UK time Sunday for that one.
- [20:59]
Podcast Announcer/Advertiser
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [21:03]
Matt Davis Adams
So this is the part of the show where, with the help of our partners Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. James Mackie's with Us ahead of Chelsea, Arsenal. Got to ask you about last week though, James. Did you enjoy the game at Anfield between your Liverpool and mine, Nottingham Forest, in a word?
- [21:19]
James Mackie
No. I know you thoroughly enjoyed it and it was a deserved win. So I'm going to come and eat some humble pie. Congratulations. Well done. I just. I absolutely just can't believe what's going on and I'm not sure how he's going to be turned around. So let's watch this space.
- [21:32]
Kerys Jones
All right.
- [21:32]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, let's make you feel even worse by talking about two title challenges, neither of whom are Liverpool. Stamford Bridge on Sunday, the big one. Chelsea against Arsenal. Fascinating game this. How do you see it going?
- [21:43]
James Mackie
Yeah, what a game we have on our hands. First v second. The London Derby in both teams in superb form. The Betfair Sportsbook has the home side as the 21 to 10 outsiders to win the game. And you can see why, with the Blues winning just one of their last 11 Premier League games against Arsenal. On the flip side though, they've been in great form of like, haven't they? Winning five their last six, including being dominant against Barcelona at home in the week. So they'll be really up for this game. Arsenal are the favorites at even money and they are now unbeaten their last six visits to Stamford Bridge, winning three and drawing three. Also, they're unbeaten their last 16 games in all competitions. That's an astonishing run. They're on and they look set to win the title this year. The draw is priced at 158 with two of the last four meetings between these two teams finishing in a draw. And this exact fixture last season at Stamford Bridge finished 1:1 as well.
- [22:30]
Matt Davis Adams
Yes, and in that fixture last season, Pedro Neto was on target for Chelsea. He's been in really good form so far this time around. He features in your bet builder, I believe.
- [22:39]
James Mackie
Yeah, he does. This week I've focused heavily on players just because there's been some outstanding performances from players from both sides. And you're right, Pedro Neto kicks off this week's bet build. He's a three legged bet builder and he comes out around 25 1. Pedro Neto has been involved in five goals in his last five Premier League games with three goals and two assists. And he's looking to score in three in a row for the first time. He's around 158 to either score or assist on Sunday and I think he can keep his good run of form going for Arsenal. Mikayo Saka, he's had exactly two shots on target in each of his last three Premier League appearances is around 114 to do the same on Sunday and I think that looks a really nice boost to the bet builder. And finally the man of the moment for Arsenal, Erebici Eze. He scored four goals in his last four Premier League games for Arsenal with the hat trick obviously against Tottenham in the Northern and Derby where they were superb. He's also had four plus shots in each of those last two games. That landed for our bet builder last week, Matt where I put him up to have four shots and I'm going with the same again. If it's not broke, don't fix it. So eze to have four shots in the game at 5 to 2. So overall those three selections come together for around a 25. 1 bet Builder and the beauty of the Saka and Neto bets in the bet build is they have safe sub attached to them, meaning if those legs haven't won and they come off, the player that replaces them carries on that leg of the bet. It's a great tool for punters to take advantage of this season on enabled markets.
- [23:57]
Matt Davis Adams
Good stuff. Really, really interesting game in prospect on Sunday. James, appreciate your time as ever. We'll catch up with you again soon.
- [24:03]
Podcast Announcer/Advertiser
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [24:07]
Matt Davis Adams
Crystal palace, unbeaten in 12 at Selhurst park and have won three of their last four league games against Manchester United, who they face on Sunday. That's as many as they'd won against the Red Devils in their previous 30. The Eagles sit fifth in the Premier League, just a point of fourth ahead of the weekend's action, but they come into this one off the back of a Conference League defeat to Strasbourg on Thursday. Caris this is something we've mentioned on the show a few times this season, but it is significant, isn't it, that they played on Thursday and United haven't played since Monday.
- [24:38]
Kerys Jones
I think that makes it even more of a kind of tough test for United and even more not damning. Feels harsh, but it feels a lot more significant if they lose. Theoretical kind of. Only silver lining for Ruben Amarim this season of not being in Europe was having the extra recovery days. If that doesn't seem to do them any benefit on the weekend, I think it raises a lot of questions over okay, well, what was all this pain for? What are these extra hours on the training pitch being used for? Palace will be tired after a busy midweek, but they'll be quite confident having seen United just have the momentum kind of knocked off them just as they were starting to Build a bit of momentum back. That defeat to Everton, which was such a sort of a limp performance, will give Palace a lot of confidence that they can really get at this team and more importantly, that they can really hold them out as well.
- [25:31]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, you'll be at this one, Critch. Man United wise. It's time for our weekly question as to whether Reuben Amarim had turned a corner. I guess Monday's defeat against Everton would indicate that the answer is no. Or if it is turning a corner down a street that he didn't want to go down.
- [25:47]
Mark Critchley
He's turned so many corners that they're going in circles. Yeah, I think it's an indication that we should stop asking that question, to be honest. I think at least. At least until that lad gets his hair cut, then that question is out of the bag for a while. United are an inconsistent team. They will be until they prove otherwise. It doesn't take three, four, five games unbeaten to prove that. I think it takes 10, 11, 12. Then it takes another good stretch after that. We've just been talking about Arsenal. I checked. There's 16 unbeaten in a row now and I don't think anyone even registers that. Nobody talks about Arsenal being 16 games unbeaten.
- [26:20]
Kerys Jones
It's just because you clearly don't know enough Arsenal fans.
- [26:22]
Mark Critchley
Oh, really? Okay, maybe Arsenal fans are talking about it. I can expect, expect that. But in the wider sort of narrative around Arsenal, we just know they're good. Right is my point. And that's the standard. And it's not a standard that should be beyond a club like Manchester United, but it has been a standard that's been beyond them for a long time. I think during this little run, I've said it a few times on a few podcasts now, but during this little run that they had the historic five game unbeaten run and the three wins in a row before that, I was always asking myself, like, what are we going to say? How are we going to think what we're going to feel about this team if they lose the next one? Because it's never felt that far away. And maybe, maybe the best thing that's going for Amarims United at the minute is that they are an inconsistent team, but they're within an inconsistent pool of Premier League clubs. There's not really anybody that's pulling up trees at the minute other than Arsenal that you would say are absolutely streaking away. So I think that is to their advantage. But it's always been too early to say that they've turned the corner because they've Got a lot more corners to turn if that works.
- [27:20]
Matt Davis Adams
Who Dragon is going to finish higher at the end of the season?
- [27:22]
Kerys Jones
Carys, that's not a fair question in November. If you asked me before that Everton game, then I probably would have said Manchester United. But that performance has just taken all of the kind of oomph out of whatever momentum they were perhaps vaguely building. I still will say Man United just because I think they have built more depth to be able to kind of nick results even when they're not playing well. They've now got got the quality players who can win you games even if you're performing really badly. That said, they obviously didn't do that on Monday, but I think United should on paper, but that the paper doesn't seem to do a lot for them at the moment.
- [28:04]
Matt Davis Adams
What's acceptable for United Krich this season? I mean you can say they ought to finish in Europe because they don't have Europe this season, but would playing in the Europa League next term be enough to sate United fans for now or is it Champions League or bustle?
- [28:19]
Mark Critchley
I think that would be enough, to be honest, I think not even above conference leagues. Just getting back into Europe and seeing that progress would be enough to an extent for a lot of fans this season. I might remember from occasional appearances on a podcast called Talk of the Devils and I think it's become a bit of a We keep repeating the fact that we expect this team to finish sixth, seventh, eighth in the league and if they end up around there, I think that is the expectation and then you take it from there. One thing I would say about that is that that is historically the bar has been lowered compared to other seasons in the past. Despite the fact that the club is still spending £200 million every summer on new players, there's been this gradual lowering of expectations to this point. That still feels like a slightly artificial lowering of expectations to me. Yes, maybe it will apply this season, but if you do get 6th, 7th, 8th, what will people expect from the summer? What will people expect expect from then? From next season. And you know, and at the same time we're talking about that lowered bar and we're not even really certain if Amarim is going to be the manager to clear it at the minute because there hasn't been that consistent set of results. There hasn't been that foundation of things to build off at any point we thought might have been there over the past couple of weeks. But as I'm saying, I think there needs to be more proof in this pudding before anybody can go out on the limb and say, this is definitely going to work. It's never really reached that point yet. And I wouldn't. You know, Crystal palace are a good side. I know they're struggling a little bit with the management of European football and playing on the weekend as well, and that is difficult for them. But Caris made a great point. Right, the start here is that these are the situations that United are supposed to take advantage of, and yet I don't think a lot of people are very confident going into this game this weekend. After we result on Monday night, it's going to be an interesting one because I think it sort of. It feels like every result colours perceptions around United, but this one certainly will on Sunday.
- [30:10]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, especially with Oliver Glasner oft linked to the United job, whether it's vacant or not. Elsewhere, after getting a paddling at the Emirates, spurs were beaten 53 by PSG on Wednesday night. They face Fulham Saturday evening. They'll be without their captain, Christian Romero. He picked up his fifth booking of the season against Arsenal. Critch Frank talk is this must win for Thomas.
- [30:32]
Mark Critchley
I don't know about must win. I would say that if you spoke to a lot of Tottenham fans, even at the start of the season when they made a relatively good start, they would tell you that the performances weren't there. And I think over the course of the past six weeks, you've started to see that come home to roost. Now, there was signs of improvement on Wednesday night in Paris, even though they went down 53 at PSG. PSG are an excellent side training European champions. And Frank changed his setup slightly as well playing that 422 2. Lucas Bergwal achieve gray coming into midfield as well to help out in there, which has been a real weak point, as we mentioned before. So you would hope that they can build on that into the weekend. I think on the wider point, and you could apply this to quite a few clubs that we're talking about on this episode, it's not a good moment to sack your manager at the minute. I don't think managerial succession is often dictated by who's available, who's on the market, who you can get. And if you think about the names that are floating around now compared to some names that might be floating around in the summer after the World Cup, I'm thinking people like Julian Nagelsmann, Mauricio Pochettino, Oliver Glasna's contract and is up in the summer. Andonia Iriola's as well. That's the time when you would want to move on a managerial change if you felt you needed to do it. Whether you're Tottenham, whether you're Manchester United, whether you're Liverpool, as we may come on to mention. So I think it's not a quite opportune time to start having those conversations. But then results dictate down there and it might force some clubs into that moment. So we'll see. But I don't think it's there just yet. But Tottenham certainly need to improve because the performance is just genuinely. They haven't really been there all season long.
- [32:04]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah. Can maybe throw Thomas Tuchel into that mix of available managers after the summer as well. In terms of this game then, Karis, obviously they're not to be. I say obviously, presumably they're not going to be as defensively minded as they were against Arsenal last week. I mean, it's Fulham at home. That handbrake's got to be fully disengaged.
- [32:22]
Kerys Jones
Yeah, this should be a very winnable game for Spurs. Like both these teams have been leaking goals like a sieve to kind of what Critch was talking about. And what you asked about is this a must win. I don't think Thomas Frank's at the must win stage, but I think he is at the point of like must show learning and I think he started to do that against psg. But the thing with Ange Postecoglou was always okay, the football's fun but it's not always getting us results and quite often it's not. Whereas with Frank it's okay, the football's a bit more boring but we can put up with it if it's yielding results. It needs to start being fun again, otherwise he's got neither. So yeah, I mean, hopefully for his sake he will be kind of very cognizant of that and set up accordingly.
- [33:06]
Matt Davis Adams
At the last time. Fulham one here, Dimitar Berbatov. It's called the only goal of the game. I looked that up using the head to head feature on soccer base, which is a great way to bring to life the viral post. Dudes can literally just sit around and name old sports players and have the best time. Breda, Hangerland, Benoira, Suakoto and we could be here all day.
- [33:24]
Podcast Announcer/Advertiser
Crit.
- [33:25]
Matt Davis Adams
I feel like Richard Osman is going to be coming for me soon if I don't think of something positive to say about Fulham. Can you help me out?
- [33:31]
Mark Critchley
We beat Sunderland last week, which was a big three points for them. As was beaten Wolves at the start of the month as well. I think. Obviously you look at the league table and think they could be doing a bit better, but injuries have been a big caveat to apply to their season, I think. And you know, missing Rodrygo Meniz as well has been a big miss. I think the foundations and the base, particularly defensively, is there for Fulham. They just haven't been getting the results and Marco Silva was a talented manager, so I know it hasn't been the greatest start to the season, but I feel like the past couple of weeks there's been a bit of an improvement and a potential springboard and like, I don't think, totally think that they won't come away with the result given, given the moment that Tottenham are in right now. So, so I think it's, you know, signs of positivity. Green shoots, I would say for them.
- [34:20]
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- [35:05]
Kerys Jones
Dashing through the store, Dave's looking for a gift, one you can't ignore. But not the socks he picked.
- [35:12]
Mark Critchley
I know, I'm putting them back.
- [35:13]
Kerys Jones
Hey Dave, here's a tip. Put scratchers on your list.
- [35:16]
Mark Critchley
Oh, scratchers. Good idea.
- [35:17]
Kerys Jones
It's an easy shopping trip. We're glad we could assist.
- [35:20]
Mark Critchley
Thanks random singing people.
- [35:22]
Ulta Beauty Advertiser
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- [35:24]
Mark Critchley
The gift of of Play Scratchers from the California Lottery.
- [35:28]
Kerys Jones
A little play can make your day. Please play responsibly.
- [35:33]
Mark Critchley
Must be 18 years or older to purchase player claim.
- [35:40]
Podcast Announcer/Advertiser
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [35:45]
Matt Davis Adams
One of the three games in the traditional five past two on a Sunday afternoon slot is West Ham against Liverpool at the London Stadium. Things got even worse for Arna slot midweek they lost 41 at home to PSV in the Champions League. Tuesday's episode of FC was all about how much pressure slot is under. Check that out when you're done here if you like. What do you reckon, Grits? You Slot the man to get Liverpool out of this. It feels like the tide is turning against him somewhat from supporters and prominent ex Liverpool players in the media.
- [36:16]
Mark Critchley
I think it's staggering, honestly. Like, I can't believe that we're at this point given where we were six weeks ago or just at the end of September. It's the first time that they've lost three games by three goals since 1953. I think I read it's the first time they've conceded three goals in three games since 1992. The team, the team looks broken. And I think, look, I think it's important to say because I don't talk about Liverpool much on podcast, but the Giotto tragedy is obviously the context within which all of this has to be framed. I think mention it sometimes it almost feels like you're on paying lip service. But it has to be mentioned because the prison through which all of this is happening, in his view. And so you take that and then at the same time you still got to analyze the performances and what's going on. I've never really known the kind of bottom to fall out of the faith in a manager so quickly and for him to lose all sense of capability. And there's reasoned voices, people who watch Liverpool regularly that I respect, who don't go over the top about things. You just don't think he can turn this around now, which is staggering to me. So I think something has to change. I know people are saying Salah maybe needs to come out the team. I think he's somebody who has been accommodated in this team for a while now. He doesn't need to run, he doesn't need to track back as much as he used to. He doesn't have to put that shift in. But the benefit of that was that you're always getting the absolute maximum amount of him at the other end of the pitch. And that was certainly the case last season. You can't say that has been the case this season. And so maybe there's a case to drop him, but would that change things? I don't. I don't think so. Is it going to make a huge difference? I honestly don't know. I don't know what this squad and this group needs to bring him out of this funk that they're in at the minute. It's a hugely challenging question. West Ham have been poor this season, but you wouldn't necessarily have a lot of confidence with Liverpool traveling there and getting three points just given how poor Liverpool have been themselves at the minute. So I Honestly don't really know which way this one's going to go where. Otherwise usually it would have been a banker. And I think that says everything about the situation that Liverpool find themselves in at the minute.
- [38:16]
Matt Davis Adams
What'd you reckon? Gary's West Ham scored three goals in each of their last two home games. Looks like Nuno's a bit more settled. At the very least, they're probably not going to lose 5 nil like they did in this fixture last season.
- [38:27]
Kerys Jones
It is obvious who the momentum's with for sure. And I think what would be kind of most worrying from a Liverpool perspective is the the variety of opponent that they have been losing to. It sounds like a really obvious point, but it's not. It's not that teams are employing a particular style to get at them. They've lost to a Guardiola team in City and then a Sean Deitch team in Nottingham Forest and then they've lost to PSV Eindhoven or by kind of similar margins. There's not a special tactic that teams are needing to employ to kind of unlock a really solid unit as we're kind of talking around with Arsenal. It's more just that they feel like they're there for the taking at the moment. Which is critics is right to use the word staggering considering where they were at the start of this season. The money that they spent in the transfer window. Obviously, as Critch rightly pointed out, like all of this has to be viewed in the context of the events this summer. It's impossible to know what effect that's had, but it's not unprecedented but incredibly unexpected situation.
- [39:26]
Matt Davis Adams
Right, let's get rapid fire through the rest of the weekend's fixtures. Brentford vs Burnley Saturday, 3pm The Battle of the Bees. They've both got bees as mascots. Critch, who's your favourite? Buzz of Brent or Bertie of Burnley? Producer Jay has furnished us with pictures of both. My immediate thought was I'm not showing either of those to my two year old child because she would cry.
- [39:48]
Mark Critchley
Well, she might cry as well if she ever saw Bertie's antics. Bertie. It has to be Bertie all day. He's famous for once clearing out a streaker who ran onto the pitch. I think it was in his first game against Preston North End. They absolutely took him out. Rugby tackled him down. And he also does the worm even better than Scotty. Too hot. He does back in the golden era wwe. So I'm definitely going for Bertie on this one.
- [40:10]
Matt Davis Adams
Note to producer Jay Critch has just made an attitude era WWE reference Can we book him every week on the podcast for the rest of the season? Please? Sunderland versus Bournemouth. Kerry, seventh against eight. 700 mile round trip for the cherries. You did a long schlep up to Burnley last week. How are you killing time on an away day? Give those Bournemouth fans some tips.
- [40:31]
Kerys Jones
Well, my main tip would be to have a thousand words to write before you need to get off your train. But if you can't do that, the soccer 100 from the athletics just come out. Yeah, get a good book and make conversation with football fans on the train. That never fails to disappoint.
- [40:45]
Matt Davis Adams
That is a company girl right there. Give her a raise in the promotion immediately. Another Saturday, 3 o' clock kickoff is Manchester City versus Leeds. Erling Haaland. We've been mentioning this for a few weeks, Critch. And he's one more goal to reach a century in the Premier League. Is this the weekend it happened?
- [41:00]
Mark Critchley
I think so. Yeah. I think yes. I think yes. I have to say I actually didn't captain him in fantasy Premier League last week. So I felt like you could back against him going to St. James's Park. And I was right. Except the play that I did. Captain Bruno Fender did absolutely nothing as well. So that didn't help. But yeah. Come on. It's early now and it's coming Saturday.
- [41:17]
Matt Davis Adams
At half past five. Everton against Newcastle. Only the bottom two have scored fewer home goals than Everton. Only Wolves are bagged less on the road than the Magpies. Kerris, this is nil. Nil.
- [41:27]
Kerys Jones
The. Oh yes. Very much so.
- [41:29]
Matt Davis Adams
Sunday at 2:05 Villa against Wolves. Crit you are handsome Rob Edwards. What's your motivational speech ahead of this one? And how nailed on is it that Wolves will be releasing said speech on their socials on Monday morning? If they win with the caption of either he knew or he just gets it.
- [41:46]
Mark Critchley
My speech would be at the start of December last season Southampton had five points. So you need to win today in order to equal the what? Second worst ever side in Premier League history. Yeah. Maybe not the most motivational technique but still. I'd go for that.
- [42:02]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah. Scare him. I like it. And finally Forest against Brighton. Forest won this 7 nil with 37% possession last season. Now they are reaping the benefits of the bald headed triumvirate in the dugout of One Stone and Deitch Karis. That's not a question. I just want you to say yes. Forrester back.
- [42:19]
Kerys Jones
If we're phrasing it as an injury, I wouldn't say they're back. I would say they're training on grass again. Yet to return to full contact training.
- [42:26]
Matt Davis Adams
Update that. All right, let's wrap it up there then. Loads of great games to look forward to this weekend. Hope you have a good time if you go into one. Keep across the Athletic for all the best rundowns on everything that happens, Premier League and elsewhere. Thanks to critics to carry us, to producer Jay and to you for listening. We'll be back with you soon.
- [42:46]
Podcast Announcer/Advertiser
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producer is Jay Beal and the presenter was Matt Davis Adams. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Adie Moorhead. The Athletic FC Podcast is an Athletic Media Company production and proudly sponsored by Betfair. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [43:33]
Ulta Beauty Advertiser
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- [44:02]
Podcast Announcer/Advertiser
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