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- [00:01]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [02:59]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [03:09]
Adam Levinthal
Hi there, I'm Adam Levinthal. Welcome to the preview on the Athletic fc. This week we are focusing of course on the Carabao Cup Final Liverpool against Newcastle. We will also set you up for the Premier League action this weekend and joining me are two very excited people in particular the Athletics. Newcastle writer Chris Woff. How are you?
- [03:36]
Chris Woff
Very, very energized. I suppose going into the weekend it's sort of like it just feels like the adrenaline's been there constantly because obviously we've made a big deal about the fact that Newcastle have got back to another final, a second in three years. And yeah, I haven't really been able to envisage the weekend looks like yet. I think I haven't really been able to picture myself on Wembley, Wayne walking into the game and what actually happens in the 90 minutes. But yes, full of excitement as you say.
- [04:00]
Adam Levinthal
That makes me think do you normally visualise ahead of doing a game? I like to think that you do now.
- [04:07]
Chris Woff
Well, I mean particularly when Newcastle played AFC Wimbledon at home in September. That was something I visualised for a good three weeks beforehand. Yeah, I had to think about all eventualities.
- [04:16]
Adam Levinthal
You also heard a little preview of our Liverpool writer Andy Jones. Challenging week for for Liverpool but an opportunity to pick up silverware this weekend. Are you excited?
- [04:27]
Andy Jones
Yes, I am now. Just about got over Tuesday and the frustrations and disappointments that came with that. But yeah, it's all eyes on on Sunday now and hopefully Liverpool can can bounce back as the as they have done a few times this season when things have not gone their way.
- [04:42]
Adam Levinthal
And Tim Spears, you're the, you're here as well. You're the, you're the neutral. How are you feeling ahead of that Carabao cup finally? You excited?
- [04:49]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Yeah, yeah, just sort of, you know, envisaging how I'm going to watch it from my sofa, you know, just like just how the how the day's going to pan out. Just can't wait to see how it unfolds.
- [04:58]
Adam Levinthal
Yeah. Excellent. Now look. 30 English clubs have lifted a major trophy since Newcastle last did. Chris. It's. It's a huge weight on. Not your shoulders. On the team's shoulders. Of course. One step away from. From ending the trophy drought. How does the mood in the. In the city comp compare to previous cup runs?
- [05:22]
Chris Woff
Yeah. I mean I'm surprised that he described Tim as a neutral observer. Surely he wants Newcastle to win something this weekend. I mean Liverpool have had. Have had their fair share of. Of trophies over the years. No. It's. It's been. I mean obviously two years ago when Newcastle got to the Carabao Cup Final and faced Manchester United. That was their first cup final in 24 years. So that was a sort of huge emotional ride. Reading. That was the. The. The first full season post takeover. Newcastle was sort of competing to get back in the Champions League and sort of. That really surged from being what seemed like relegation fodder just 18 months earlier to. To. To being in that position. So I think it. It felt like an upward trajectory. And everyone was just so excited and emotional about Newcastle getting there. Two years on. It's. It's felt different because I think partly the team has evolved but not in terms of the project the way that you necessarily expected it to. Because Newcastle have a well documented PSR issues when they haven't been able to strengthen the first 11 over the last three years. And so it's felt more businesslike up until this point. Inside the club and also among supporters. They're talking about not letting it get overly emotional now. I think too much could be made of that. And it's being conflated as if that was the reason why. The only reason why Newcastle lost two years ago against Manchester United. Really that just didn't turn up. And it was part of the season. They weren't playing very well. And it was a contributing factor. But I don't think it was the only reason. And I also think that whereas two years ago they went there and lost to Manchester United. And that felt very deflating because it wasn't a great Manchester United side. There's different going this. This time. Everyone accepts that Newcastle are massive underdogs going up against the Liverpool team. They are this weekend. So it's been business like and going into it with maybe not raised expectations but just the hope that on the one off day given what they did to Arsenal over the semi final. They do actually have A reasonable chance on Sunday.
- [07:01]
Adam Levinthal
I don't want to be unfair to Eddie Howe but he. He very rarely comes up with anything belting from his news conferences. And I was just wondering you know, having seen him speak ahead of the final, has he. Has he changed that? Has he come up with. With anything? You think whoa. He said what? Or is it just sort of normal.
- [07:21]
Chris Woff
Eddie Howe, largely normal Eddie Howe. I mean I think you've actually been generous by suggesting he's incorrect in Belding. He rarely says anything of any interest whatsoever if we're perfectly honest. And that's the way that he sort of wants it. That's the way that he manages the sort of situation. And I actually think in many ways that's what Newcastle United as a club given how jumpy it is, given that it gets too high and too low, almost needs someone in that position who's level headed. I thought what was most interesting in his press conference this morning was that he was asked about sort of taking the emotion out of it and he paused for a second. He said it's not about taking the emotion out completely of this game because we need emotion. That's when we're at our best. But it's about not getting overly emotional and also not going the opposite way and sort of being under stimulated. Which he said obviously you would be surprised if anyone was going into a cup final. But basically that he actually wants his players to use the emotion of the occasion and how much it means certainly to the support base of Newcastle fans who haven't won a major trophy since 1969, haven't won a domestic trophy since 1955. That yearning and channel it in the right way and make sure that it doesn't make you go on the pitch and so that you've almost burned out your emotion that maybe you could argue that it two years ago but use it as fuel. And I thought that was. Was probably the most interesting. He also was asked a question about a supposed curse which has been placed on Newcastle United and their inability to win things. And he said I won't use that word in response. He wouldn't even say the word curse. He won't. He won't engage in anything around that. But yeah, the fact that Newcastle haven't won anything in so long everyone looks for a reason why. And one of those reasons that continues to. To creep around is whether there is a cur been placed on the clubs.
- [08:48]
Adam Levinthal
So speaking of curses, we discussed Atletico Madrid and them having a curse against Real Madrid. That's on the last episode of this podcast which you can check out if you wish. In terms of channeling emotion, I suppose it'll be interesting Andy, how Liverpool do that after the disappointment against Paris Saint Germain? Or do you see this game as separate? Almost not a free hit? Of course it's a really important game but one that is, that is not interconnected to the, to the Champions League disappointment?
- [09:21]
Andy Jones
I think so I think Liverpool need to make it that way anyway because obviously there was a lot of frustration and disappointment about going out on on Tuesday. Especially given the advantage that they did manage to somehow get from the first leg and then the landfill. You sort of thought that Liverpool would, would find a way to go through and you know, unfortunately despite you know, finishing top of the Champions League group stage, they got probably the hardest of all and against the team who's probably one of the most informed in the world at the minute. But yeah, I think, I think it's important to separate it and, and ultimately Liverpool shouldn't need to pick themselves up for the Cup Final. You know, regardless of, of what's gone before. It's, you know, there's, there's a number of players who weren't involved last season, for example, who you know to watch from the sidelines and obviously it was a great day for everyone involved. But you know, the likes of Salah so was like Jones for example, Nunez who were all injured for that, for that game. They'll be wanting to more than any of the other ones be. Be a part of a ball lifting a cup. See, I think it's important that they sort of use the emotion and channel it in the right way. And I'm sure they will because you know, for the few setbacks they've had this season, they've always managed to bounce back. It's very rare that they've. There's been sort of 2, 3 results in a row that have, have gone badly. Whenever sort of something's gone wrong, Liverpool have fixed it quite quickly and you hope that that continues going into this game.
- [10:36]
Adam Levinthal
Tim, what's your sort of your gut feeling on, on how this game is going to pan out? Because I mean if you look at the physical element, yeah, Newcastle have had a day extra. They haven't had to go to extra time. They haven't had that, you know, that deep emotional process that Liverpool would have had to have gone through losing out to Paris Saint Germain, having been ahead. Where do you feel Liverpool's heads will be at and also Newcastle's with all the pressures that they bring. It's fascinating, isn't it?
- [11:08]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Yeah, it is. I mean, I mean, I think a fairly mundane sort of one nil win at West Ham on Monday was like exactly what Newcastle needed, really, especially with recent results. And yeah, I agree with Andy in terms of Liverpool sort of bouncing back. It won't be a problem from a mental point of view. I mean, they've been fighting on four fronts for quite a few years now. You know, they've suffered a lot of setbacks and you know, they're used to having huge games from sort of, you know, a few days apart. But physically, I mean, they looked done in extra time. I got to say, PSG really came on strong in extra time. Liverpool look very tired. It's also noticeable how Slot kind of had to tell them to run against Southampton last week where, you know, he sort of waded into them at half time. He said, said after the match they weren't even running properly in the first half, which again sort of suggests that they're pretty tired. And yeah, I think you can overcome mental disappointment, but if, if the legs are empty, then that's going to show on Sunday. And I do think what happened in midweek is a bit of a leveler. I would have put Liverpool as strong favourites if this was played like 10 days ago. But I do think it's been leveled out a touch. I also thought it was really interesting in midweek how Slot said it was the best game he's ever been involved in. And it was, it was a really good game. But then the same question was put to Luis Enrique a few minutes later and he sort of scoffed at it really. He was like, what? He was like, have you not seen my career? And it was just a little reminder to me that, hang on, Slot is not that experienced at the top level. You know, it's like, okay, he's won some stuff, but he's not won a huge amount. And this is by far the biggest test of his Liverpool career so far. It's the first biggest setback. And to kind of get the team ready for a cup final on Sunday, it's by far the, the most difficult thing he'll have had to do so far. So it's a real test for him as well. It's definitely more difficult to call now after midweek.
- [13:01]
Adam Levinthal
I'd say, Chris, I wanted to check in with you just about the other sort of main subplot of the end of this season, which is Alexander Isak. And I'm sure that the pals that be at the club are fed up of people asking about oh, what's going to happen next season. We've got enough to sort out before the end of the season first. Let's wait until the summer to deal with Isak's future. But have we learned any more about how he's feeling ahead of yes, the Cup Final but also when Newcastle are placed in the in the Premier League as well because it's obviously hinging on them getting into the Champions League it appears. Yeah.
- [13:39]
Chris Woff
I mean Newcastle made the curious decision to put Alexander Isak up alongside Bruno Gimaraes in a sort of pre Karaba cup final press conference. And it was good to be able to speak to those two but they'd actually almost been kept guarded. I mean they've done rights holders over the course of the last few weeks but hadn't sort of spoken to the written media really. And Isak was obviously asked about his feature because that is he constantly gets linked to clubs all over Europe and he is one of the most in demand players in world football right now. And he was. He was sort of non committal in the sense that he was asked whether he felt he could achieve his ambitions at Newcastle and he said yes, I do believe that we're in his second Cup Final. We're competing for titles as he put it. He met. He meant trophies, cups and that's why I signed for this club in the first place. But then when he was asked about Newcastle's intentions to hopefully sit down with him at the end of the season and potentially discuss a contract extension and you would imagine a pay rise, he basically said that it's not something he's thinking about right now. His focus is on the here and now. So he was. It was basically deferring talk until then. And he said, he confirmed the talks have not taken place yet. So the thing with Isak is that Newcastle are in that position where he's going to have three years on his deal come the summer remaining. So they are sort of in a strong position that certainly under no PSR pressure again now to have to consider selling someone. Isak hasn't indicated that he wants to go and Newcastle certainly house of the opinion that if you lose Isak, you may as well just give up in some sort of ways in terms of how do you start again. Newcastle took a calculated gamble in terms of spending £60 million on him in the summer of 2022. And he has developed into this top class center forward. But they also can't give him Erling Haaland esque wages or Mbappe esque wages. They just can't afford to do that. And so it would need someone to really test their resolve this summer in terms of big, big money. But I think Newcastle will be in a far stronger position if they can get back into the champ. If they were to win the Carabao cup and get into the Champions League this season, then I think they'd be in a very, very strong position to be able to try and rebuff interest and hopefully tie Isak down to a longer deal, which would give them a bit more security as well.
- [15:38]
Adam Levinthal
Yeah, well Isak is certainly going to be key for Newcastle on Sunday. We'll deal with some of the players that are missing and the tactical battle at Wembley next.
- [15:53]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [16:15]
Tim Spears
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Ryan Reynolds
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- [16:53]
Tim Spears
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- [17:26]
Adam Levinthal
So let's deal with the the team news ahead of the final because it is of huge interest because there's some big guns missing, especially Andy for Liverpool. I was going to call him Jurgen Slot there. That would be weird, wouldn't it? AR Slot confirming that Trent Alexander Arnold is is out. Is it. Is that. Is that a huge miss for Liverp that is that going to really hinder them?
- [17:49]
Andy Jones
Good question. I think it does in terms of of his influence on in possession particularly I think you know because the likelihood is that Jad Quanza will will play it right back. Because it looks like Ibrahima Konate is expected to train today to the likelihood is he should be available for Sunday because that was the as well as going out the Champions League. The big concern was that if Liverpool lost two of their starting four back four it looks like it's only one. Which I guess is a little bit of a positive. But in terms of Gerald Kwanza being you would expect him to play right back. He's done a little bit of right back this season. His only start right back was against Newcastle in the 33 draw earlier this season. And he did okay defensively he was. He was pretty fine and Slots also gave him a bit of credit after after the game. But it was in possession where you saw the difference. Quanza is comfortable on the ball but he's not. He's not good the passing range or anything like Trent Alexander Arnold and not many do to be fair. And it was interesting that in that game Trent came on because he just come back from injury. He was being managed and he. I think it was two assists he got. But the complexion of Liverpool's attack completely changed after he came on. But ultimately Slot has inherited the team if you like that has got so much technical ability and creativity across the pitch so that you know at times when tent has missed has been injured this season. You know his absence hasn't necessarily always been felt because other people have stood up and been able to take on that creative mantle. One of those being Conor Bradley which is you know the unfortunate of him also being missions to Liverpool are without you know any. Any sort of proper right back that going into the game which. Which is a shame and a blow.
- [19:26]
Adam Levinthal
How damaging will the the missing be for for Newcastle Chris in particular Anthony Gordon. We saw him you know in the last game going off and you just. It felt. It felt looking back sort of gazza semifinal of of the World cup sort of vibes for me it was like oh no. What have you done? What have you done? How how are the missing players going to affect Newcastle?
- [19:50]
Chris Woff
Well it's interesting you mentioned Gordon because I spoke to him after Newcastle got through the quarterfinal against Brentford and at that point talking to him about. Because he was cup tied when he signed for Newcastle when they got to the final two years ago as well. I mean he wasn't established in the Team necessarily as he is now. But he misses successive cup finals for those reasons he's been unavailable. Now it is a big miss because it wasn't just that Newcastle lost two of their usual starters in Gordon and Lewis Hall. Then lost their entire left hand side. And a left hand side relationship which is built really well. Lewis Hall's probably been one of the most consistent performers in the team. And he's out with a foot injury almost the rest of the seasons. Fenn Botman also was a blow in many ways but he had actually only played five times this season because he has had a series of knee problems. So the left hand side was something which Newcastle had to and how realized he had to basically reconstruct because Newcastle don't really have another left back of Lewis Hall's ilk. They don't have someone who is is attacking really. And rather than opt for Matt Target who is sort of an out and out left back. How has moved Tino Liver men to left back. Which in one sense defensively I think gives Newcastle a bit more solidity when it comes to Mo Salah. Because we know that Mo Salah want to cut in on his on his left foot. And Tino Livermento being naturally right footed means that theoretically he should be able to have some joy there and then in front of him. I thought that at West Ham on on Monday that Eddie Howe may go with Joe Willock and Joelinton is like a left sided basically going back to the Future to the 202223 season where they basically combined as a left sided duo and would almost switch roles. Left sided number eight and left sided forward. But actually went for the out and out winger in Harvey Barnes who got an assist and he offers a goal threat. Now Barnes is a strange player in the sense that most wingers are involved in in a lot of what they do for Newcastle. Harvey Barnes basically scores or assists or you don't really see him now. That sounds a weird thing to say but it is. He is almost a passenger at times. But he can win Newcastle United a match. And so I think that it's a huge opportunity for him. He's been behind Anthony Gordon in the pecking order. He's been injured for a large spell of his time at Newcastle so far. And I just feel like this on Sunday is an absolutely massive opportunity for him to try and sort of rewrite the narrative of his Newcastle career so far.
- [22:04]
Adam Levinthal
Tim. Is there anything that Newcastle can replicate that that Paris Saint Germain did and have similar success against Liverpool?
- [22:10]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
I mean they haven't quite got the players that Paris Saint Germain have got. You know with all the greatest of respects I think. I mean I think think Chris's point about Barnes is a really good one. You know Newcastle don't have a huge amount of match winners and Isaac would be the obvious one. But Barnes is potentially another. And if he's up against Quansa. You know Quanza is a great young player with a very good temperament. But this will be the ultimate test of that. You know, if he's playing it right back in a Cup Final at Wembley. Fast breaks are probably the best way to get at Liverpool. And again that's why Anthony Gordon is such a mess. But Liverpool can be got at. I mean they're in their sort of weakest point of the season I would say. And you know you're probably looking less at the PSG game and more like games they had against Everton where of course they drew two. Two wolves. I think wolves could have probably beaten them at Anfield but somehow lost two one they drew at Villa. They went behind against Southampton. You know the problem for Newcastle is there's no defeats in those matches I'm talking about. But they did. They have proved that they can be got at. And like I said if you add in the sort of physical problems they've got there is hope there for Newcastle. But Liverpool always just seem to find a way to win.
- [23:18]
Andy Jones
I think the intensity would be what I would take from the if I was Newcastle what I'd take from PSG because psg his intensity was incredible throughout the game. And thinking back to the 33 draw earlier in the season. Liverpool were really unsettled by Newcastle's intensity. I mean Gravenberg probably had his worst half of the season I think was Bruno especially was just all over him basically. And Liverpool were were unable to really build out. And it was just relentless pressure really. And. And it was similar to what PSG were able to do particularly in the first leg. But at times you know an extra time as well in the second leg as well. So I think that intensity that Newcastle can bring when they're on it. There's few teams that can really live with it.
- [24:01]
Adam Levinthal
Final discussion on the impact on on the two managers reputations by picking up first piece of English silverware. We had a great piece on the Athletic. George Culkin digging into the the work of Eddie Howe. Chris. What would a trophy do to the perception of Eddie Howe? We know about the meaning to Newcastle but what about the meaning for him? Does it actually change the dynamic or is his Reputation, you know, in that top bracket already assured or does he need this?
- [24:33]
Chris Woff
There's always been. Since Howe took charge there's been that sort of comparison with Mark Hughes at Manchester City. Is Eddie Howe the Mark Hughes of the Newcastle United era? That he's the first person and he's take them to a certain level and then he has to be replaced.
- [24:47]
Adam Levinthal
Just get Mourinho in that sort of vibe?
- [24:49]
Chris Woff
Well exactly, yeah. That he can take them to a certain level but actually getting that trophy. Can he be the person who actually takes them to silverware? And. And I think that that's always been an unfair perception. And obviously the work that he's done is incredible. And I think that even if Newcastle lose on Sunday that shouldn't diminish what he has achieved. But at the same time if he can be. When you add in the context of the. The managers Newcastle have had over the years who've been unable to win something to be the person to finally do that. That will give him so much goodwill in that sense. But also I think it then just changes the. The perception of what Newcastle can achieve going forward. That sort of cliche that. That once you've won the first trophy you can kick on and win others. It felt like such a missed opportunity two years ago for me with Newcastle because that was the. The ability to kick on from there. And as. As transformative as Champions League football is in some ways at some point you have to actually win something material. You have to win that trophy. And also on a sort of wider point which I suppose is not probably not something that he necessarily will think of as much as an English manager to win something. I mean I think Harry Redknapp's the last English manager to win a trophy. There've been very very few English managers who've won anything over the course of the last two or three decades. And so to really prove there's someone who's come up through the ranks, who's come up through all of the levels with Bournemouth and there's taken Newcastle hopefully to the top and won something. I think that would just be confirmation of how good head coach he really actually is.
- [26:10]
Adam Levinthal
And Andy on. On a slot. I mean obviously everyone has been I think probably outside of Liverpool been surprised with how well he has. He has done and slotted in seamlessly. What would it mean for. For him and just for the confidence probably looking longer term that he can just pick up this first trophy ahead of obviously picking up the Premier League in a couple of months time.
- [26:33]
Andy Jones
Yeah, I think that that's what makes this sort of. Sort of question a little bit weird in that, you know. Well, it's very, very likely he's basically got his first trophy in the bag anyway regardless of this. But I think from his point of view, I think that first trophy will be important especially with it being a final. You know, Jurgen Klopp came in and lost his first few and it took a while for Liverpool to eventually get that first. First final win. But I think for slot it would be a massive boost for him to do that. I mean ultimately as you say, he's, he has overachieved this season, you know, with, with winning the Premier League. And I think this would take on a very different look if Liverpool weren't where they were in the league. You know, the pressure in terms of he's, you know, you've got to come in as a Liverpool manager and win things and that pressure is still there ultimately. So yeah, it's, it's important for him regardless of the Premier League to sort of get off to win aways in a cup competition because you want to show that you're able to I guess manage and navigate finals because slots and Liverpool fans will hope that they're in a number more in the coming years under his leadership.
- [27:29]
Adam Levinthal
Final word then. Final predictions. Just score predictions from. From you Tim. First of all, you're going to be sitting on your sofa with a Domino's pizza perched on your tum tum and drinking a Campari and soda, watching the game. What do you reckon the.
- [27:40]
Andy Jones
The score's gonna be visualized?
- [27:41]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
What an image you're playing today.
- [27:43]
Chris Woff
What a picture.
- [27:44]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Let's. Let's all just think about that for a minute, shall we? Yeah. Yeah. My heart says Newcastle, but I think my head says Liverpool. Just seem. I mean Liverpool still almost beat PSG despite being overplayed over two legs. You know, they, they, they. They basically find a way to win. But I think the longer the game goes on, the more chance Newcastle have got if it gets to extra time. But no, I think Liverpool in 90 minutes. Maybe one nil.
- [28:06]
Adam Levinthal
Chris.
- [28:06]
Chris Woff
I mean I'll be honest. I absolutely hate the thought of going to Wembley in many ways because it's just brought misery to. In terms of every time I've been there, even in the Premier League. Newcastle haven't scored a goal there in the last few visits. I lost to spurs there a couple of times the Premier League. But I have to go in with. I'm a natural pessimist but I have to go in with Optimism and I'm going to say it's going to be 11 after normal time and Newcastle are going to win 21 after extra time.
- [28:26]
Andy Jones
And Andy, as also a pessimist, I'm flipping Chris's. I think it'll go to exercise and Liverpool will win 2 1.
- [28:31]
Adam Levinthal
Well, we shall see. Chris, Andy, enjoy the weekend as much as you can, as much as the nerves will be jangling. Thank you very much for coming on. Tim and I will be back to look ahead to the Premier League fixtures next.
- [28:48]
Tim Spears
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- [29:22]
Adam Levinthal
Well, before we get to the Premier League fixtures this weekend, we are of course heading into an international break. Quick word on Thomas Tuchel's first England squad for the qualifiers. The World cup qualifiers against Albania and Latvia, Serbia and Andorra are the other teams in England's really perilous looking group. The headlines, Marcus Rashford, Jordan Henderson, Rhys James back in the squad. First calls for Dan Byrne and Miles Lewis. Skelly, what was your verdict on the first squad team?
- [29:53]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
I mean the, the name Jordan Henderson does, does jump out at. Yeah, you know, sort of jumps right in your face. It's just, I don't know, you want, it's. Look, it's, it's fine. The most important thing is obviously, you know, seeing what team he puts out and how they play and how he wants them to play and what formation they play in. It's a bit, it's a big squad here. Some of these guys won't even play. But yeah, the, the, the, the notion of Henderson, I don't know, it doesn't quite sit very well with me. Obviously there was, you know, the whole culture war over Henderson for like a couple of years as to whether he should be playing when he's out in Saudi Arabia, etc. But my thing at the time, I was sort of helping, covering at the time. My big thing was that he's just not good enough. I remember Gareth Southgate saying when he left Henderson out before the Euros that it was time to sort of evolve the squad and move on. So it does feel like a bit of a backward step. Ditto Kyle Walker. I thought this might be a chance to sort of move on without him. He's going to be 36 at the World Cup. Dan Byrne's going to be 34 at the World Cup. He's just getting his first call up. You know, I'd have liked to have seen Adam Wharton for sure. Morgan Gibbs, White, I think should be in there. Jared Branthwaite, I think should be in there as well. So, yeah, look, like I said, it's all about the matches, but I would like to have seen a little bit more progression with a few of the names.
- [31:05]
Adam Levinthal
Let's get stuck into the Premier League games this weekend. On Saturday, you've got Everton against West Ham. David Moyes against his old club. David's brilliant job that he's done at Everton, just steadying the ship and then moving them away from danger. Manchester City in fifth against Brighton in seventh. City looking to get back into the top four. Put pressure on Chelsea, who are Arsenal on Sunday. We'll talk about them in a minute. Brighton, though, they have a chance to move above City. Then you've got Bournemouth in ninth without a win in three, facing Brentford. And then at the bottom, Southampton still on nine points, two shy still of Derby's worst ever total from 2007, 08 of 11 points. They host Wolves, who are 17th, but Wolves are six points above Ipswich and Leicester. Ipswich hosting Forest in third. Leicester at Manchester United. And I know it's not for you, obviously, Tim, but for the neutral, with Liverpool having wrapped up the title, and we're only really looking at the European chase in the Premier League at the moment. We need Southampton to beat Wolves and for. Well, for Leicester or for Ipswich, just to close the gap, just to keep a little bit of interest at least. Would you just give us that?
- [32:21]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
I mean, could you just roll over.
- [32:23]
Adam Levinthal
And have your tummy tickled by Southampton?
- [32:25]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Oh, that was One of Mick McCarthy's old phrases, that was. He used to love saying that. I mean, the Champions League race is gonna be really interesting. Can that not keep everyone occupied?
- [32:33]
Adam Levinthal
No, no, that's. Yeah, that's fine. But we haven't got a title race.
- [32:36]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
We haven't got a title race. I do think. I do think the Champions League race is absolutely fascinating, by the way. And I think most of us probably expected City to win at Forest last week and sort of cement their status. And. Oh, here we go again. City are guaranteed, but, you know, they're not. And it is Going to be really interesting. I know the race for fifth is. You can take the mickey out of that and we will, but for sort of Bournemouth and Forest and Fulham, it's going to mean so much to be in the Champions League. I think that'll be really interesting and. Yeah, but do you know what? Okay, you can tell me all day that we want Wolves to lose some more matches. Wolves have lost a lot of matches this season. The teams are. The teams below them are just like, just not taking advantage week after week. I mean, Ipswich's home defeat to Southampton a few weeks ago, that was. That was the moment. I just thought, look, they're not capable of doing this. You know, time and again, Wolves have opened that door and I'd say they've left it open pretty widely, you know, with some horrific results. And time and again, Leicester, with their Dorfu form under Van Nisteloy and Ipswich, who sort of dipped a bit after, you know, pre Christmas, they look like they could have it in them to sort of evolve and make some good January editions and really make a fight for it. Another disappointing defeat, albeit to inform Crystal palace last week. So, yeah, you know, you look at it a point a game would have kept them up, probably less than that. 35 points could have kept them up, but Ipswich are going to get nowhere near that at the moment, and that's.
- [33:57]
Adam Levinthal
Despite them and Southampton having spent a lot of money as well. So I'm sure by the end of this season we're going to have some sort of grave discussions once again about maybe the need for a Premier League too and all that malarkey. But we'll get onto that. Let's talk about Manchester United through to the Europa league quarter finals 52 on aggregate against Real Sociedad. That 41 win in the second leg. Quick word from Laurie Whitwell. Been speaking on the United pod, talk of the Devils who said, yeah, that's great, good, but they need to do it again in the league against Leicester on Sunday.
- [34:31]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
You've got a sort of feeling around.
- [34:33]
Chris Woff
Them now that, okay, that's the blueprint there to the energy and the, you.
- [34:37]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Know, the enthusiasm, the resilience.
- [34:38]
Chris Woff
You know, they should be able to go and do it away at Leicester. But this is the kind of stuff that obviously they've been undone by, isn't it? You know, they've got up for big.
- [34:45]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Games like this in the season previously, you know, Liverpool City, Arsenal, and then.
- [34:49]
Chris Woff
They'Ve kind of flummoxed against some of the lower light, obviously.
- [34:52]
Adam Levinthal
Great for United to progress in Europe. But that's not been the big story of the week, obviously. We found out that they're plotting a 2 billion pound 100, 000 seater stadium to replace Old Trafford. Just your view on what that stadium looks like, Tim. That's all I need from you on this.
- [35:13]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
I like the way you said they were plotting to build the stadium. It's like, you know, you normally like plot a transfer swoop, you know, but they're plotting to build a two stadium stadium.
- [35:23]
Adam Levinthal
It does feel like they are. It's not, it's not nailed on, is it? Because there's a lot of perms that, that need to fall in place. Really.
- [35:30]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Yeah, I guess when you've got Sir Jim Ratcliffe saying on Monday that the clubs, the club could potentially have gone bust this year and then, and then the next day they're going to build one of the most expensive football stadiums of all time, you know, because they found a bit of money down the back of the sofa. Yeah, I've probably got to be, gotta be slightly careful what I say here. I did write a piece about, about the stadium this week and what, and, and the artist impressions which were, you know, you could have a bit of fun with if you zoomed in on the, on the images that they put out. There were some, there was some pretty, there were some pretty fun Easter eggs, but because, because of my anti Man United agenda, it didn't go down very well in the comments, you know. But no. What do I think? I think, I think the inside looks fantastic. I mean it's, it's a sort of a. It looks really steep, it looks close to the pitch. That makes me think that they're, that they're really sort of thinking about the atmosphere and the surrounding areas all looks great. There's always far more trees in these artists impressions than actually, than actually come to fruition. But yeah, do you know what? It needs it. I'm sure as Adam, you've been to Old Trafford, you know, recently and it, God, it needs it. It's not fit for purpose, that stadium that the. I've been in the away end, I've been in the press box, I've walked around the stadium. You know, they call themselves the biggest club in the world or the most popular club in the world. You go to Old Trafford, you do not get any sense of that's where you're at. But yeah, the exterior was a bit, not, not to my taste, but, but inside, look.
- [36:57]
Andy Jones
I think I just won my taxes.
- [36:59]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Yeah.
- [36:59]
Andy Jones
I just switched to H&R block in about one minute.
- [37:02]
Adam Levinthal
All I had to do was drag.
- [37:03]
Andy Jones
And drop last year's return into H.
- [37:04]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
And R Block and bam.
- [37:06]
Andy Jones
My information is automatically there so I.
- [37:08]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Don'T have to go digging around for all my old papers to switch. Nope. Sounds like we just leveled up our tax game.
- [37:15]
Ryan Reynolds
Switching to H and R Block is easy. Just drag and drop your last return. But it's better with Block.
- [37:23]
Tim Spears
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- [37:50]
Adam Levinthal
So Ange Postecoglou, he's still fighting at Tottenham in the Europa League. They overturned a 1 nil deficit against AZ from the first leg. They won the second leg. 31 quick maths. That's 32 on aggregate. Eintracht Frankfurt for them. Next tougher test. They're fourth in the Bundesliga. Spurs have got Fulham away on Sunday. And I watched Ange Postecoglou's post match press conference after the game against az and he, he called the victory a foundational game. Obviously, you know, players back, opportunity to rotate a little bit more. They've only really got this now to focus on. You never know that second trophy or second season trophy pledge that he's spoken about, he might just do it. You never know.
- [38:39]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
So you've been won over by a victory against RZ Altmar?
- [38:44]
Adam Levinthal
No, no, no, no, no, no. I haven't been won over by it, but I think we need to cut him a little bit of slack. And if he can keep those players that have returned and that he's been saying, look, how are we supposed to be winning games where we haven't got these players? Now he's getting them back and they will gradually build up and there's going to be less pressure and he can rotate in the league, et cetera, et cetera. You never know. You never know.
- [39:08]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
I think, I think you, I think you do, I think you do probably know, but.
- [39:11]
Adam Levinthal
Oh, you do know.
- [39:12]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Okay. I think.
- [39:13]
Adam Levinthal
No, I'm, I'm. But no, but I think, because if you actually look at it when you've had such a, a drudge of a campaign, now the players are thinking, oh look, it's spring, sun's out, we're getting players back. Look forward with a little bit of optimism and you know, why not?
- [39:31]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Yeah. In their favor is that if these players stay fit and I do Think that's a big. That's a big question to ask.
- [39:36]
Adam Levinthal
That is the big.
- [39:36]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
If they stay fit and don't pull their hamstrings, then yeah, they're going to be fresh and it's going to feel like they're only sort of halfway through the season or less. For some of these players they're the epitome of like a rollercoaster at the moment. I mean they were so flat in the first leg, they were terrible. And then against Bournemouth they were pretty horrific. I mean that was like a 3 nil away defeat kind of game. And they somehow clawed, I thought Bournemouth were absolutely magnificent and they somehow clawed their way back in with a goal from a cross and a very soft penalty which Kepa shouldn't have given away. So, yeah, and then Thursday they produce what, probably their best performance in a few months. So yeah, if, look, if spurs produce their best football, they can beat pretty much anybody in Europe. But they just haven't done that for quite a while.
- [40:22]
Adam Levinthal
I've got you believing, haven't I?
- [40:26]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Yeah, sure.
- [40:27]
Adam Levinthal
You went. You full. Yeah. You're in Team Ange, Team Spurs. Right, from Team Ange and team spurs, let's move on to the other side of North London to Arsenal and a bit of a six pointer against Chelsea. Arsenal's gap to Chelsea could be nine points or it could be three points depending on what happens if they lose, it's a genuine scrap for the top four places and if they win, it's completely arm's length and job done. Do you think?
- [40:55]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
I mean, they've got such a cushion. They've got that eight point cushion to fifth place. I don't think Arsenal are in any danger, to be honest. We know they've had problems with their attack, but the defence has still been very good. They've got the best defence in the, in the league still. They've only conceded 24 goals in 28 games. They've only lost three matches. It would take a massive U turn in their form in terms of losing matches for them to be dragged into it. So. No, I, I don't think so and I think, I think it's a good thing that they've got that cushion because they can, they can place their whole emphasis on this, on this Real Madrid game which is going to define Arsenal season now. I guess now that we know they're not, they're not going to win anything else. It's a huge tie, mouthwatering tie. And yeah, I really look forward to that one.
- [41:35]
Adam Levinthal
As for Chelsea, they advanced in The Conference League on Thursday night as well. So they're still fighting for a European title of sorts. Do you think it would be a successful season for them? If they win the Conference League and they finish in the top four or five, depending on, you know, how many we need to get in via the Premier League, it's looking like five. Do you see that as a successful season for them?
- [42:01]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Yeah, I would say. I would say 100%. You know, they've had so many sort of teething problems with, under Enzo Maresca and in terms of their lineup, in terms of their defense, in terms of their keeper. Now they've had problems up front with Nicholas Jackson. Cole Palmer's been out of form. Yeah, if they were to finish in the top five and win a, win a trophy, and they should win that trophy, by the way. You know, they're by far the best team since day one. They've been by far the best team in it. Yeah, they're a funny one. Chelsea, it's the. I heard an interview with Levi Colwill a week or two ago and you know, when sort of players get asked about managers and they're like, yeah, he's great, love him, great to work with. But with the way that Chelsea players, not just Coldwell, talk about Maresca, I mean, he, he basically said the way Maresca thinks about football is light years above everybody else. And Colwell's works with some, you know, pretty. Under some pretty sort of forward thinking and successful managers like, you know, de Zerbi, of course, at Brighton, Graham Potter as well at Brighton, Pochettino at Chelsea's played for England under Southgate. So, yeah, for him to kind of say he's light years ahead of everyone else does make you think that if he, if he can bring in the players that he wants in the summer and if he can coach this team to the levels that he intends to, then there could be something pretty special building at Chelsea. You've always got to remember that it's a very, very young team, youngest in the league, I think, by a distance. And the ceiling is so high. You know, it's a very high tariff dive. It's like one of those synchro dives you get in the Olympics with a couple of Chinese divers going for like, you know, a high tariff. You know, if it comes off, it's going to be spectacular, but it's going to need a bit of time. And the problem is that there's not much patience for his brand of football at Chelsea. You know, they're not enjoying it at Stamford Bridge.
- [43:48]
Adam Levinthal
Tim, time has beaten us. Thank you very much indeed.
- [43:50]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
Thank you, Adam.
- [43:51]
Adam Levinthal
Just wanted to say a big thanks to everyone who has listened sent comments on the Underground World of Fake Football shirts which was released last Sunday that's still available for you to listen to. Another special episode on a different topic entirely is coming up for you in two weeks time, but in the shorter term. Have a lovely weekend and we'll be back on Monday.
- [44:15]
The Athletic FC Podcast Network
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were guiding Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Ailee Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [44:38]
Ryan Reynolds
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.