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- [00:00]
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- [00:20]
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- [01:11]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
The next evolution in Football Storytelling Football Manager is back in our lives for the first time, Football Manager 26 refreshes the managerial experience and sets the stage for you to define your football destiny. Now. Chances are that as a listener to this podcast, you've spent hundreds or even thousands of hours on previous iterations of this game. Tommy Svendel Laughs and Czerno Samba and are much better in the game than in real life. Toribo west, we salute you. Well FM26 is going to give you the richest matchday experience ever with enhanced player movement and greater on pitch detail, bringing new levels of depth and drama to every match. For the first time, you can compete at the pinnacle of English football as the Premier League debuts. With fully licensed club badges kits and official player photos and with a completely overhauled UI by the genius developers at Sports Interactive, every aspect from training to tactics to transfers belongs to you and your vision. Football Manager 26 is out now across platforms. Step into the dugout and change the game.
- [02:12]
Matt Davis
The Athletic FC welcome to the preview from the Athletic fc. It's the show where we get you set for the weekend's Premier League action. This week we're focusing on a Premier League modern classic, Manchester City versus Liverpool. And joining me today, we've got two preview debutantes. Hello Andy Jones hello.
- [02:38]
Andy Jones
Thanks for having me on.
- [02:39]
Matt Davis
Yeah, no, absolutely our pleasure. I'm not sure how trepidatious you're feeling about Sunday, but we shall find out. Very Jordan Cabell's with us as well to give us a City perspective. How you doing Jordan?
- [02:50]
Jordan Cabell
Yeah, I'm good mate. How are you?
- [02:51]
Matt Davis
All right? Yeah, can't complain. I mean yeah, I'm a Forest fan so we' talk about that later maybe. But we are here to talk as well as Sunday's showdown about some of the other key games taking place on match day 11 in the Premier League. But first let's get to our feature presentation and it has been the marquee matchup Premier League wise since Pep Guardiola took charge of Manchester City. Arnas Slot compared the contest to El Clasico in his Friday press conference. Andy, I wonder if there's a slightly different feel to this fixture than there has been in recent years because these two aren't the front runners in the Premier League this time.
- [03:26]
Andy Jones
Yeah, I think there is for a number of different reasons. I think that's, that's one of them because ultimately both, both are chasing down Arsenal and this is frequently been, you know, a title where felt like a title deciding fixture between the two sides because it's been those two at the top and obviously that's changed in the last couple of years difference in this case. I mean last season for example felt different because you know, Manchester City had dropped off and Liverpool had sort of taken on the mantle of being a top dog. So there was a different feel then but also coming into this one Liverpool, given recent form, it's a very different feel again for this one because of where they were basically a week ago and they've obviously sort of looked to get back on track but it's certainly not going with, with the same confidence they may have done in, in previous seasons because of, of form and still not being quite sure where they are in, in this, in this journey with the, the new changes that they've made over the summer. Yeah.
- [04:23]
Matt Davis
City 6 Liverpool 7 points behind Arsenal ahead of the weekend. So different kind of pressure Jordan for these two at this stage of the season. They were the top two at this point last year. Liverpool were two points clear of City. They can't afford to fall any further behind the pair, can they? And again the pressure will increase on them if asked to win at Sunderland on Saturday.
- [04:47]
Jordan Cabell
No, definitely. Well and I'm sure though they'll be aware of that that you know Pep, every single pressure keeps making a joke about when will Arsenal actually next concede a shot, never mind the goal. So I think he is well aware that Arsenal are probably the team to beat this season. I think man City, given The drop off last season, the number of like really, really experienced players who left this summer, you know, as a big overhauler. But they did get a head start in January and I think you're seeing players like Nico Gonzalez now benefit from that. You know where maybe it was looking like, oh, I'm not sure if he was, was he a panic buy, did they need them? But Rodri still not fit and he's really stepping up to the mantle. So I think in the last couple of months you've seen becoming a better and better team. They're still not back to the level that we were used to seeing them. They're adapting, they've changed the style of play. I think will be interesting to see what they go with on Sunday because they have been happy to give up a little bit more possession than we've been used to seeing. There's a lot of things to be excited about in the last few weeks before then and Cherokee on the pitch at the same time. So no, I'm really looking forward to Sunday. I think it's got a lot of really new subplots to arrival that had sort of been the same key characters for so many years.
- [06:06]
Matt Davis
Well, both sides in Champions League action in midweek with added X factor. Haaland scored against his old club Borussia Dortmund in a 41 win. Trent Alexander Arnold made his first return to Anfield. He could be forgiven for hoping it's his last. Liverpool beating Real Madrid by a goal to nil. That after they'd steadied the ship. Andy, with that win against Aston Villa last weekend, really important to follow it up with a win in the Champions League, particularly given the caliber of opponent and all the tumult around. Trent.
- [06:36]
Andy Jones
Yeah, it was good to get one over on him from a supporter's perspective. So it was important to build off the Aston Villa result and performance and to do it against that type of opposition and sort of play as well as he did. And I think the key was the consistency of performances individually, but also as a collective. Obviously a tiny tweak of personnel between the two games, but there were people who have been struggling for a structure and identity for basically all of this. The bad run that they were on and this, you know, the last two games have felt like they've, they've refined that. They've, they've obviously gone back to things that worked last season for them. They're not exactly the same in terms of how the, the playing tactically and, and the shape and things like that, but you know, they've also been helped by the, the type of opposition they've played. And City sort of falls into that bracket again of, of teams who want to be a little bit more possession based and are just happy to just, you know, play the low block, long ball football. It that slots talked about a lot in the way opposition have played against Liverpool and been successful playing it. The other thing is Liverpool have stopped in the last two games, have stopped conceding early goals which has basically put them on the back foot straight away. There was so many issues, you know, you could talk for, you could have talked for hours on Liverpool's issues. You know, over the last few weeks. They've not solved all of them. They're still not, you know, perfect. They're still building towards getting back to sort of the levels that they were at last season.
- [07:52]
Matt Davis
And you mentioned kind of playing the hits on a slot and going back to what had brought them success in terms of team selection last season. I wonder if also maybe they've stumbled upon a way to, to get the best out of Florian Wirtz. Was that his best performance so far in a Liverpool shirt coming off the left where we hadn't really seen him?
- [08:10]
Andy Jones
I think it was. He's been really good in the Champions League. Generally when you go through the games it's probably three best performances for Liverpool were Atletico Madrid, Frank Faith and Real Madrid. So it's, it's clearly the Champions League which you know, is a competition he's more used to playing in, has been where he's felt more at home. You know, there's still that, that issue in the Premier League of the, the physical side of things. I think there was encouraging size against Real Madrid. There was a little bit more bite to what he was doing because at times in the Premier League it just feels that he's been eased off the ball a little bit too much. And there were signs against Real Madrid that that might not be the case. I think it was interesting to use him off the left. I think it, it allows slot to use the midfield that was so good for him last season and, and refine that balance because that's. That balance had been missing to sort of get Gavin Beck, McAllister and Saabers like together, they're all in form at the moment as well, which, which is a massive, massive boost. MacAllister's last two performances have been really, really key. I think the interesting thing with them playing off the left was against Real Madrid, they obviously had to comeavinger and Valverde on the left on, on Their right and not a great attack and threat for Madison. The more central midfielders, they're not, you know, you know, it's not. Valverde is not going to, you know, not an attack on right back who's going to do overlaps. And Kavin winger is not sort of the tricky winger who's going to take people on the much more technical quality midfielders. You saw that the difference was the only time he started in that role was getting Crystal palace in the league and it didn't work. But they had the threats of Munos and Saad on that side. So it's. It'll be intriguing to see if Slot continues with it, just to see how the balance works. Because Vitz. Vitz does get through a lot of running, but it's the impact he can have defensively. But I think what you. What he was able to do is because of the lack of sort of threat from Real Madrid on that side, he was able to have that free role and not be caught out. But he's also got the. The solidity of the midfield behind him. So I think it's a possibility. I think at the moment that is probably his best way into the team. And it'll be interesting to see if. If Slot continues with that against Manchester City or as he has done, you know, for a number of games in the Premier League, brings him back out, leaves him on the bench and puts.
- [10:05]
Matt Davis
Cody Gakpo back in City wise. Then Jordan Holland on the score sheet again in midweek. It was his partnership with Phil Foden that caught your though Foden so sparkling that Thomas Tuchel's put him back in the England squad.
- [10:21]
Jordan Cabell
Yeah. And I think, you know, I was surprised that he didn't make it into the last one because, I mean, Foden, since he obviously missed the first few games of the season through injury, but since he came back, you know, this is close to the Foden or two. Two years ago. And yeah, what I spoke about after the Dortmund game was that we talk about Haaland's movement and how great it is when he scores goals, but we sort of overlook the space that he creates for players like Foden because he's essentially a magnet as soon as he moves. You know, the times I was looking at the clips and Foden's finds a space and as soon as Haaland sees that, he moves away and two defenders sort of drop off in a way that they would not if it was any other striker. So I think Foden's benefiting from that. But yeah, I think the. The key thing for City has been about how do you fit. If that's a strong duo that you've got in the middle there, Ford and Haaland, you know, that adds a lot of goals. How do you then fit in the supporting cast? Because no one else has really been contributing. I think what you saw against Bournemouth, the first game that he's played Turkey and Foden in the same team, it worked really, really well. The three we've been used to, again, wingers out on the touchline. He sort of changed that against Bournemouth where he brought Doku and Cherky inside and him, Cherokee and Foden were just constantly, constantly rotating and playing all these little one, two combinations. And times that we saw two or three passes from defense to midfield, straight through to Haaland. I think that's the new. The new sort of weapon that City have got, that they won't just kill you by death by a thousand cuts. It can be, you know, blunt force with Turkey. That's what I'm interested in though, is, you know, Andy's talking about vocal. Well, that's play off the left or be Gakpo. I suppose the balance going to this game is can he afford to go with that team against Liverpool where you've got Cherokee, Doku and Foden. If you've got Nico Gonzalez behind them, who then plays alongside him to balance out? Is it Bernardo Silva or is it Reinders? Because, I mean, I really like Rinders, but he did have a few weeks there where he sort of dropped off after his great debut against Wolves. So he might probably trust Bernardo Silva a wee bit more to. To keep some shape, just to pick.
- [12:42]
Andy Jones
Up on the tactical thing. I think it's gonna be really interesting. I'm really intrigued to see what. What Arnas slot does, because last season, obviously, when he went to the Etihad, it was one of the very few times he played with. With two tens and no forward. And you wouldn't because it works so well. You wonder if. If. Has he got an idea of going back to that and. And maybe virtually, maybe he doesn't play off the left. Maybe he plays as sort of more of a one of the. One of the two tens. And maybe Gakpo plays or maybe Ekatike moves. Because in the Real Madrid game, what was quite interesting, particularly in the second half, is Viets and Ekatike would switch, so vids would go central and Ekatika would come out to the left and then it switched back and So I, I think it's really interesting because it feels like a proper tactical mind game going into it of what, what neither, neither manager will know what the other's going to sort of how they're going to set up, what personnel they're going to use. And it's going to be really interesting to see what the teams are and then how it all shakes up. Because while Liverpool generally you can, you can probably pick eight or nine of the players, what you do with the top end of the pitch like we saw last season, you know, could, could slot for a bit of a spirit in the works.
- [13:45]
Matt Davis
Yeah. Two nil winners at the Etihad last season were Liverpool. We'll talk more tactics shortly, but it's time for clue one for this week's Put your shirt on it. First time having a crack at this for the chaps. It's where I take a shirt from my vast collection and try to justify the amount of money I've spent on them over the years by working them into a podcast feature. So this week we have got the Liverpool 2006-2008 shirt. This is back in the day where you'd get a shirt and it would last for two seasons. Imagine such a thing. So I am thinking of a player who has played in the Liverpool, Manchester City games of yore. Here is your first clue. I wore this shirt as an 89th minute substitute in Liverpool's 10 win against City 19 years ago this month. Not expecting either of you to get it from that, but if you'd like to hazard a guess, please do.
- [14:40]
Andy Jones
I think I might need another clue before another guest goes.
- [14:44]
Matt Davis
Oli K. Got it first time round the other week and it absolutely killed the feature sting dead. So don't feel bad if you don't get it.
- [14:49]
Jordan Cabell
Must have jiggled.
- [14:51]
Matt Davis
Yeah.
- [14:52]
Jordan Cabell
Pennant. Or is that too late?
- [14:54]
Matt Davis
Penance. Not a bad shout, but it's not correct. Andy, do you want to have a go or should we move on to clue two?
- [15:02]
Andy Jones
Trying to think of sort of a defender like Steve Finn maybe.
- [15:06]
Matt Davis
Again, not a bad shout, but not right. All right, I tell you what, we'll take a little break, we'll come back, we'll talk tactics and see if we can work out who wore this shirt.
- [15:16]
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- [16:39]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
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- [17:54]
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- [18:38]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [18:43]
James Mackie
Right.
- [18:43]
Matt Davis
Clue to then I played 79 times for Liverpool scoring 18 goals. I played 51 times for City scoring 15 goals. Craig Bellamy is absolutely spot on. Well done Andy.
- [19:00]
Andy Jones
Get in. Happy days. One else.
- [19:05]
Matt Davis
He played for five other teams in the Premier League. Newcastle, Coventry, West Ham, Blackburn, Cardiff. I was looking at his career Jordan and am I being really mean to say that the thing he's most remembered for is whacking John Anarisa with a golf club.
- [19:22]
Jordan Cabell
I mean maybe a little bit harsh but yeah, I thought you were going to go to the old Forum stunt that you had but yeah, I'm glad you kept it to the golf clubs. But how many goals did get for for City? I was surprised. They only get 18 for for Liverpool.
- [19:38]
Matt Davis
18 for Liverpool, 15 for City, but in way fewer games. 79 games for Liverpool. I guess quite a few of those would have been off the bench. 51 games for City and I mean given the amount of clubs that he played for Andy and some big ones in there, kind of underwhelming that he won the League cup with Liverpool, the Scottish cup with Celtic, the Championship with Cardiff. I guess would it would have meant a lot to him but maybe, maybe some regrets that he didn't get more trophies. I also wonder is he like the most unlikely manager currently managing? You know, if you'd thought of him as a player would you immediately have picked him as being an international football manager?
- [20:15]
Andy Jones
Definitely not. But he was, he was obviously a Burnley with company as the assistant manager when I, when I was covering Burnley and very, very different character to what I thought when he did a few post match stuff. Like he was very, very positive and you know very very calm in the way he spoke and you know there was, there was no sort of digging people out there you think he might have done. It was, yeah it was, it was, it was seeing the best of everyone.
- [20:38]
Jordan Cabell
I do like when I see his Wales press conferences like it gets really philosophical and like every time I see him it's like he's almost on the verge of crying, you know like in a nice way but I'm like yeah, like I know he's cat. He's been a bit calmer than we expected but it, he is very. It doesn't wear his heart on his. On his sleeve every press conference which is actually quite refreshing given how many press conferences are a non event Going.
- [21:06]
Matt Davis
To be interesting to see how his managerial career unfolds. Let's get back to Sunday's game then and the tactical battle between the two. I wonder Andy how significant it is that Conor Bradley was excellent, wasn't he against Real Madrid midweek. Andy Robertson's come back into the team and looks better too. How significant is that for Liverpool and would you expect them both to start such Sunday is Kirk is going to have to warm the bench for the foreseeable.
- [21:33]
Andy Jones
I think Slot would like to start both of them. I think they've brought a real sort of consistency and sort of certainty to the position. Bradley's been around the first team now for a long time hasn't actually played that that many games. So he's still sort of in the infancy of his career because of you know who was ahead of him in Alexander Arnold but also because of injuries that have sort of played them in the first couple of years. So this is, this is sort of his first real opportunity to. To get some games under his belt. Robertson's the interesting one. Slot sort sort of talked about him in this in the press conference because he's now played three games in a row because he, he was involved in the. In the sort of palace debacle, whatever you would call it. So he has played three and he did come off at the end against Real Madrid. I think slots have touched on it as tiredness so but I think he will want him to play because ultimately Robertson at the moment is Liverpool's best option in the left back position. Kickers I think has been unfairly criticized in areas. I think some of it's been a bit over the top but he has been erratic and ultimately you know Van Dijk looks a much better and more more comfortable with Robertson nexum and that's understandable because of the relationship that they've built but I think kickers has been asked to play a different role when he you know than he. Than he was at Bournemouth and I think he's. He's very much still learning it. Where does Robertson is. Is much more comfortable in it and he's got a balance between the defense and the, you know, being involved in build up but also getting forward. So I think he will, he will hopefully have both them on the pitch because they have sort of just stabilized or helped stabilize Liverpool's backline, which was, you know, sort of all over the place. Jordan, during the bad run that they were on.
- [23:06]
Matt Davis
You're going to need a stable backline if you want to try and keep the aforementioned Erling Haaland quiet. Another record potentially in his sights this weekend. Jordan, he's two Premier League goals away from 100. He'd be the fastest player to reach the milestone. I mean, he's got ages to do it. He's on 98 from 107 Premier League games. Alan Shearer, fastest at the moment. He got to 100 in 124 matches. I mean, you've watched a bit of him. How would you stop him? Do you need him to have an off day rather than anything that the opposition can do to actually quieten him down?
- [23:42]
Jordan Cabell
Well, I mean, this is the thing now with the players that you have got because for so long teams are sort of just sat deep to deny him space and that was probably the only way you could, you could sort of deny him that superpower that he's got. But then if you, if you do that now, you've then got Cherokee and Foden and Doku at the edge of your box, constantly trying to pick holes with it. It feels like they've got the, the tools to now do that. And then if you go, all right, we're going to go and press you, as more teams have been doing, then you're just offering up that space for Haaland and behind. So I think that's a scary thing now is that they can do both. So I'm not entirely sure that we'll ever get an answer to how do you stop them? David Moyes made a good point as the, when they, when they lost 2 nil the other week was, you know, he's like, for 60 minutes he did not touch the ball. What else can you do apart for like the. He's like, it doesn't mean anything that he doesn't touch the ball that often. He doesn't really care. So, yeah, I think that's the, the, that's the discipline of Haaland is that he does not get frustrated. You know, I saw Wayne Rooney talking the other week about how when he started getting older and they moved him forward, even though he had his two best seasons he found it boring. His two best goal scoring seasons were boring because he wanted to be more involved. Like I don't get the sense that Haaland gets bold whatsoever when he maybe touches it five times, five times a game. But his record's incredible.
- [25:16]
Matt Davis
I don't think a draw is particularly useful for either team here, is it Andy, give me your prediction. What's the score going to be on Sunday?
- [25:22]
Andy Jones
I think it's going to be like 2. 2. I don't think Liverpool are going to win. I think a point for Liverpool would be good in the sense that I think it would end, you know, the week and what was, you know, a really big week and a really potentially, you know, really doomsday type of week. If things had continued to go wrong. I think a point away at the ET would be good. But that doesn't take into, into considerations for the league title picture and with both sides being. Being so far behind already, it's sort of feeling a little bit ominous. Sort of that lead already that Arsenal have got. Liverpool sort of built up that lead, didn't he? Fairly early, five points and then it never got below that really throughout the rest of the season. So I think it does feel, it does feel significant in terms of title challenging credentials. But I think from Liverpool's perspective, I think. I don't think anyone would be furious if they managed to get out of there with a point. So I've gone with two. Two. But I genuinely, it could be anyone. Genuinely. I don't have a clue how it's going to go.
- [26:21]
Matt Davis
Jordan, can you pick a winner?
- [26:23]
Jordan Cabell
I think City might just assist a high line factor for me. Like I just think they might just outgun Liverpool a little. I think both teams will definitely score and I think Liverpool will probably control more of the game than we were used to seeing maybe at the Etihad when Klopp would take his teams there. But I think City could just have that one of those spells where they just decide the game in a way that maybe Salah's done but is not looking as likely to do as Haaland. So I'm going to go two one.
- [26:58]
Matt Davis
Say all right, goals either way then half past four on Sunday for that one. When we come back we'll have a look at what's happening elsewhere in the Premier League this weekend.
- [27:07]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [27:11]
Matt Davis
Well, this is the part of the show where with the help of our partners Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league. This Season James Mackie's with us ahead of Manchester City versus Liverpool. You're a Liverpool fan, James. How are you feeling about this one? Been a bit up and down your form on the road, but a couple of important wins at Anfield of late. Have they got you feeling a bit more confident?
- [27:31]
James Mackie
Yeah, look it's been a really turbulent period, hasn't it for slot Liverpool and Liverpool fans but two evenly matched teams and I think it's going to be a brilliant occasion on Sunday.
- [27:40]
Matt Davis
Okay, can I just say on behalf of every supporter of a team who aren't the reigning champions, lol at this being a turbulent period for Liverpool. How are you seeing this one going there? Give me the. Give me the bat Chugs. Yeah.
- [27:52]
James Mackie
The Betfair Sportsbook has the home side Manchester City has this strong four to five fans favorites for this one and you can see why. Winning 10 of their last 12 Premier League games against reigning champions. But on the other hand man, City lost both Premier League meetings with Liverpool last season. As many defeats as they suffered in their previous 12 against them, Liverpool look a big price off the back of their two wins against Villa and Real Madrid to stop the rot of late at 5 to 2 and like I said had the beating of City last season. However the Reds losing their last three away from from home. They haven't lost four on the bounce on their travel since April 202012 and that was under Kenny Dalglish. So if that was to happen again that would be obviously a big thing for Liverpool with with them thinking that they'd stop the rot. This is a huge game at the weekend. The odds suggest that City are the strong favorites but we'll have to wait and see on Sunday.
- [28:41]
Matt Davis
All right. We love a bet builder. When it's one involving Manchester City you can be fairly sure that a raw milk drinking Norwegian is going to feature. I guess he does a game.
- [28:50]
James Mackie
Yeah, he definitely does. Yeah. So for the bet builder this week I picked out a three leg bet that comes out around 21. Starting with that main man Ernil Holland. I feel about. We talk about him every week that I'm on but you can't, not at the moment, can you with. With his goal record he's 8 to 11 to score any time on Sunday. Don't think he has the best record in the world in the world against Liverpool, but I just can't not see him being involved again. Haaland has also scored two goals in each of his previous four home appearances. He's. He's just absolutely freakish. This season. So at 8:11 I can see him getting on the score sheet again for Liverpool. I think our player this season so far has been Dominic Saboslai. He's been unbelievable in that midfield with energy and also when he's been asked to play at right back he's been magnificent and he's now starting to affect the game with goal involvements as well and his last six games for club and country is two goals and four assists and around 13 to five on Sunday to either score or assist in the game. I think he can be involved again. He obviously got that assist from McAllister against Real Madrid. It looks to be on set pieces so that looks to me a nice price. And to finally round off the bet builder I think there's so much riding on this game when it comes to the title race that even though a point doesn't really help either team, I think it would be a really tight game and overall they'd be happy not to lose the game. So 23:10 the draw price looks attractive to me in the Machos 90 market. So overall those three selections come together for a 21 bet builder and the beauty of the Haaland anytime scorer selection Sir Bozlight to either score assist in the game bets is that safe sub is attached to that meaning that if those legs haven't won and they come off, the player that replaced them carries on that leg of the bet. It's a great tool for punters take advantage of this season in enabled markets.
- [30:23]
Matt Davis
Matt Nice. Sounds good to me James, Appreciate your time.
- [30:26]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly.
- [30:29]
Matt Davis
Sponsored by Betfair Sunderland hosting the league leaders Arsenal on Saturday at 5:30. Mikel Arteta's side looking to make things even more difficult for Liverpool and Manchester City. They had no Victor Jocherez, but it was no problem in midweek. Mikel Marino with a brace to help them to a 30 win in Prague. Joker is expected to miss the trip to the Stadium of Light, joining Odegaard, Havertz, Madueke, Martinelli and Jesus in the treatment room last season Jordan that would have been terminal for Arsenal, wouldn't it? But they've got real depth now and Marino kind of the example of that in midweek, I guess.
- [31:08]
Jordan Cabell
Yeah, I mean I think that's what that's the one thing that Arsenal Arsenal lacked for the last couple of years was the starting 11 could compete with the best teams in the league, but as soon as you lost one or two the drop off to the replacement was just so huge that you just felt it you need to be able to look at your number nine or your two wingers and think yeah, they're going to get us over the line here too many times. I don't think the other players probably truly believe deep down they, they had that cutting edge in the final thought. But I mean Merino, I think, you know, he's been on some, some arc since he joined, joined as the left eight and then ends up as is probably maybe the best finisher in the team. He sort of understand that a space is just, it's just brilliant the time in these runs. How good he is in the air is just, it's just freakish almost. He doesn't look particularly springy even though he is quite tall. He doesn't look like the sort of guy that's going to tell above you, but he's just a really intelligent player. And I think Arteta sort of been vindicated on, on that signing because it did look like a little bit of an awkward, an awkward signing that he was trying to shoehorn in a role but a bit like he did with Havertz as well when he joined the year before. It wasn't really working and through circumstances Arteta, Arteta moved him forward and found a way to fit him into the team. So now Arsenal are just at such an autopilot stage this journey where they know they're going to win most games and I think once you get to that, that point mentally you can, you can afford to change one or two and you don't really look around and see a massive, massive difference.
- [32:46]
Andy Jones
Yeah.
- [32:46]
Matt Davis
And they're looking to become the first top flight English club to win nine games in all competitions without conceding a goal. Absolutely ridiculous. Only conceded three in the Premier League all season. You feel like this will be an interesting test for them right though and De Sunderland, the surprise package so far, I think we're all kind of waiting for them to tail off a little bit. Not at their best against Everton on Monday. You reading much into that and how key is Granit Xhaka going to be here against his old club?
- [33:16]
Andy Jones
Yeah, I don't think you can read too much into the not being at the best against Everton because I think ultimately you've, you do have to remember that they are promoted side so they are going to have a lot of ups and downs this season. You know, they've started unbelievably well. Even when they weren't at the best they still managed to get a point and that's a good sign. I think when you looked at the start, it was, it was a nicer start than you would in the other sides had and they've capitalized on that and then built on it and built and used the momentum to be able to go away to, you know, Chelsea and get a win, for example. So, yeah, I think there will be peaks and softs of the season. So it's just sort of not. And, and because they built the sort of that points buffer, there's no need to sort of, you know, go overboard if they do, you know, lose a couple in a row on Grant Shaka. I think, you know, he's, you know, up there for sign of the season really, isn't he? I think everyone sort of thought that he could be the perfect sort of influence in the middle of the park for a, for a, for a promoted side when he, when he sort of, when he did come into Sunderland and he could sort of be that, be that leader to, to get them and, and take them higher up, up the division and, and find ways of winning games and, and picking up points and, you know, he's exactly done that. So yeah, then put it anyway. Arsenal is going to be a very tough test. I don't know how good Sunland are at defending set pieces. That's pretty much the key when you play in Arsenal at the minute. But yeah, no, it'd be interesting to see how it plays out because, you know, Sunderland are at home as well, aren't they? And the home record has generally been pretty good. So it's going to be, I'd imagine, a pretty good atmosphere when Arsenal rock up. So yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing how that goes.
- [34:48]
Matt Davis
Yeah. 5:30 kickoff, which means it should be nice and rowdy. Kicking off the weekend's action in the Saturday lunchtime slot are Tottenham Hotspur and Manchester United. Booed off after their defeat against Chelsea last weekend, spurs bounced back in style. They beat Copenhagen 4 nil in the Champions League. Both sides on 17 points. Spurs did the league double over Manchester United last season last won three consecutive league games against them way back in 1959. 60. That was a big win, Andy, wasn't it, in midweek? Not least for Thomas Frank, who was starting to get a little bit of stick because of the style of play, but also because of how terrible spurs have been at home, which is not all his fault, of course. Hangover from last season.
- [35:34]
Andy Jones
Yeah, I mean, 0.05 XG, I think it was against Chelsea, wasn't it? You can't really get worse than that. It sort of feels like you've hit rock bottom with that type of, of output in a home game in the Derby. So it was much needed. I think there was a lot of sort of excitement the way that they played. It's a different competition. Copenhagen had the strongest of opposition, so you don't want to sort of read into it too much, I guess. But I think there was, there was positive performances. I think Javi Simmons was, was really good and that seems to link up well with Colin Moaney and I think you doggy. And I know the Bear played quite well by the sounds of it on, on the left hand side as well. So yeah, I think, I think there's positive signs from it. But yeah, the home form has been an issue. I think teams aren't particularly scared to go and play them at home. I think there's, there's almost a confidence now that we've got a really good chance of getting the results here. It's just they. As impressive as the stadium is, it doesn't feel like an intimidate where it clearly doesn't feel like an intimidating place to go for awaysides and that's reflected in the results and it's, it's not a surprise, I guess that the spares have been much better away from home when, when I guess they're not necessarily needed to dictate the players much and, and teams can sort of, you know, wait for them to do something. You know, spurs can, can do that themselves when they go away from home. So yeah, much, much needed confidence boost. But then, you know, back to the Premier League, it, you know, it's do it again for me and, and ultimately I don't think you can expect the center afternoon from his own box every game to get you one of the goals. So as impressive as that was and as fun as it would be to see every week, I don't think that's going to happen again.
- [37:07]
Matt Davis
Yeah, absolutely sensational that from. From Mickey Van de Ven. United definitely improving. Jordan, I think it's fair to say. But, but for as poor as Tottenham have been at home, they've not been particularly impressive away. Just the one win at Anfield. Defensively they have struggled. They've conceded twice the number of goals that spurs have. That'll be something that Tottenham will be looking to, to exploit and it's that kind of risk reward thing, right, of playing Ahmad at wing back scores a brilliant goal against Forest. But, but they are vulnerable in that area with him there.
- [37:39]
Jordan Cabell
Yeah, but I mean I think those are the trade offs that you're going to have to make if you want this system to put United on a bit more a front foot. But I guess that's the other debate is all Man United actually better when they're on the back foot. And maybe the same could be said about Thomas Frank as well, where he's making the transition from being, you know, a pragmatic team at Brentford to then go to spurs where I think a lot of the fans want me dominate the game. But as we've seen last week against Chelsea, that they probably lack the incision to. To really cut teams open. So, yeah, I think Ahmad, yeah, maybe look better as a 10, but there's no. He's not going to get in there now with Kunyan and Buemo. So I think they're going to have to try and stick with that. And I think it's worth, you know, it's worth sticking with that. Even though he might be vulnerable at the back post. Like you can. You can work on that. You can. Your right center back that you play might be able to compensate with that. I think you can. You can improve on that. Can you improve on Mizrawi or Dalo's ability on the ball to link up when you're in the final third. I think it limits them too much when they play with two defensive wing backs. I don't think they've got enough players that can hurt the opposition out wide in that case. So I think it's worth what persistent with. But I know they won three games in a row and everyone thought that guy was going to get his haircut. But like, you know, I think it was. I just, I just. You just expect the next trip to come really, with a United team. I just don't think they're quite there where they're going to start reeling off really off victories yet. So I probably feel like the two teams don't really know themselves truly yet. And I guess that makes for a bit of a weird game where you're sort of stuck between this who's going to be the aggressor, who's going to be the counterpuncher, because I'm not sure either them really want to be the dominant. The dominant side. They might say they do, but I'm not sure it actually plays to either the strength. So I mean, spurs could finish this weekend second in the league looking at who the teams above them have got, you know, City and Liverpool draw, Arsenal beat Sunderland, Bournemouth are away, Villa Sports get a win, they're in second place. So as much as they've been inconsistent, they same with same man. You actually both could end up second in the league this weekend, which is, it's quite funny given, you know, some of the conversation around them. So yeah, I think that just shows how competitive the league is that you look at the gap right now between 17th and second is nine points. I think you're just seeing a theme last year where the league, the league's condensed, the middle class condensed and I think spurs and Man U find themselves sort of being flanked by teams like Bournemouth and Palace and Brighton and maybe the fans need to sort of readjust their mindset as to okay, 39 also isn't great, but it's also not catastrophic because there's a lot of teams that are going through 3 and 9, 4 and 9.
- [40:52]
Andy Jones
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- [42:02]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [42:06]
Matt Davis
It is one of those weekends where we've got loads of games. Sunday at 2 o'. Clock. Four to be precise. One of them. The M23 Derby Eagles v S Eagles. Glenn Murray, Alan Mullery Classico. However you brand it, it is Crystal palace hosting Brighton and Hove Albion 9th and 10th in the table respectively ahead of the weekend, separated by one point and a barrel full of bile. Adam Wharton into the England squad. Danny Welbeck is not though. Andy, I guess you are really pleased that Liverpool don't have to Play palace for a while. But also good to see Wharton back in the England squad. I mean, he's such a good player, isn't he? But. But for palace and for Thomas Tuchel, they'll be hoping that he can stay fit consistently.
- [42:49]
Andy Jones
Yeah, I think April 25th, 5th is too soon for Liverpool to be playing Palace. And I'm also very concerned about the FA cup today on Adam Walton. Yeah, just top player and deserves to be an England squad. I think, you know, he continues to show his class. He continues to just get better and better his ability on the ball and able to sort of dictate play and, and, you know, be the real fulcrum of that palace side and. And I think he deserves the recognition of being in the England side because I think he, he is a different type of player to some of the other midfielders they've got and complement some of the other ones. So, yeah, definitely it's. But yeah, it'd be an interesting game. And palace obviously coming off a game in, in midweek, you still sort of waiting to see exactly how that's affecting them, you know, with that external increase in games and you know, they went pretty strong against Liverpool in the League cup as well, which I was a little bit surprised about given sort of their, you know, they've not got the biggest squad in the world, for example. So. Yeah, interesting. And Brighton, I think, I think, you know, one of those teams, the fact that they're 10 sort of sums them up in that. I think from week to week you don't quite know what you're going to get from them really. And they could be brilliant one week and, you know, poor the next. So, yeah, an interesting fixture, but I'm sure Danny Welbeck will have a say in it because he, he's just in great form at the minute. He is.
- [44:04]
Matt Davis
Fabian Hertzler says he wouldn't swap him for any player in the world, which is a nice thing to say, but it's obviously not true. Six goals in six games for him. I mean, come on, Fabian, you don't have to make nice with the older kids. Fabian, you're their boss. They won't take your lunch money away from you. Jordan, whatever happens in this game, there's going to be goals, right? There always is when these two meet. Both teams have scored in all eight Premier League meetings between them. Is that Selhurst Park? But maybe a slight advantage to Brighton because they've had a free week.
- [44:31]
Jordan Cabell
Yeah, potentially. And what, you know, what Andy says is like a lot of. A lot of teams who first go into European football can struggle with a transition where you're swapping styles, but obviously there's. There's the fatigue element of it as well. But I don't know, I just find this palace team really consistent and I don't find the Brighton team very consistent. So I would fancy. Fancy palace to. I think they just get such a solid base to build on there. And yeah, despite Welbeck apparently being better than Haaland, even though he's. He's 34, you know, it's amazing really, how he's. He's had this sort of second lease of life. He's one of those players that you think is. Got a year left and then 10 years later you find that he's still on the 34. So it's. It's quite amazing. You know, he deserves a lot of credit for. For how he's reinvented himself. But. But I do think that that palace will. Will shade that one.
- [45:27]
Matt Davis
All right, let's go rapid fire through the rest of the weekend's games then. West Ham, Burnley, Claret all over the gaff in East London. Not for the first time, you might say, if you were being reductive, a West Ham win would see them overtake Burnley. Here's my question for you, Andy. At what point or in what year will Scott Parker be named the West Ham manager?
- [45:49]
Andy Jones
Oh, I'll go. I'll go more. Five years time, let's say just because he's loved at Burnley, the. He's built a really good side. There's a team and a bond and he's bonded with supporters as well and they're really happy with what he's doing. So I can see him sticking around at Turkmore for a while.
- [46:04]
Matt Davis
All right. Forest versus Leeds. Sunday, 2 o'.
- [46:08]
Jordan Cabell
Clock.
- [46:09]
Matt Davis
Jordan. I'm going to this. I'm taking my son. It's going to be his first time watching the men's team at the Citiground. Can you remember the first game that you ever went to?
- [46:18]
Jordan Cabell
Wow, that's a great question. I wish I knew.
- [46:22]
Matt Davis
The answer would have been ranges, right?
- [46:23]
Jordan Cabell
It would have been probably no. I think my mum maybe took me. She took me to a Clyde game because I think she was like, I don't want you to go into the big bad old firm, you know, whereas we'll go take you to Clyde. But yeah, I think it was the. The first Rangers. It must have been the 20023 season where Arteta scored. The winner actually might have been the psg. The PSG European game. I think I was maybe at that one. So potentially that nice.
- [46:56]
Matt Davis
Andy, do you remember yours?
- [46:58]
Andy Jones
Yeah, I do actually. It was Lead Liverpool Leeds in March 2003. 3 1. Danny Murphy's got a belter. I think my memory from it is just saying enough and being fuming that there was no commentary because I was. I would have been five I think and couldn't wrap my head around the fact that there was no commentary at the game.
- [47:18]
Jordan Cabell
What, what five year old gets angry about that?
- [47:22]
Andy Jones
Me, apparently. I have my sports journalist that's on already. You know what I mean?
- [47:26]
Jordan Cabell
A strange child.
- [47:28]
Andy Jones
I was like, why is no one telling me who's on the ball and what's happening?
- [47:32]
Matt Davis
As a commentator I really appreciate that my first game was Forest beating Man United 4 nil in 1990. I mean, I should just never have bothered going back really. You might say right elsewhere. Saturday 3 o', clock, Everton versus Fulham. Andy, is that the most Saturday 3 o' clock fixture that the Premier League could possibly have drummed up?
- [47:50]
Andy Jones
I think absolutely. It's definitely up there. And one of those classics where it could be any result and that there's no regardless of form. That's one of those games that you look at and go try and predict that and it'll probably be the opposite of what you predict. But yeah, very Saturday, 3, 3 o'. Clock.
- [48:06]
Jordan Cabell
Football heritage.
- [48:08]
Matt Davis
Saturday 8 o' clock is absolutely not football heritage. Chelsea against Wolves, albeit this one at Stamford Bridge. A little more than a week since they shed seven goals in the cup at Molineux. Any danger of a new manager bounce affecting Chelsea here? Do you think Jordan or a caretaker manager bounce?
- [48:25]
Jordan Cabell
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I think Wolves are really baffling team because, you know, the end of last season you were like, oh, Pereira's building. He's actually built something quite strong here. I can see the fans getting behind it despite obviously the obvious annoyance at the board. But you know, the summer business just left them decimated and it's hard to see past Chelsea, I think. I think Chelsea will have enough but Wills do have this habit of being in games and then throwing it away. So I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of jeopardy. But. But Chelsea are just too strong.
- [49:00]
Matt Davis
Brentford v Newcastle Sunday Sunday at 2:00', clock. Andy, like we said for Brighton advantage. Brentford here, given that they've had a.
- [49:08]
Andy Jones
Free week, I think so, yeah. And it'll definitely be an advantage. Brentford if sort of Newcastle turn off like they did against West Ham and put in the same level of performance because they were, they were really poor. Newcastle had a, you know, another good, you know, confidence boost and winning in midweek in Europe. So they'll be, you would think they'll be coming in into this one, you know, sort of buzzing a little bit more. Brentford at home are always a tough opposition so it won't be easy for Eddie. How's team?
- [49:34]
Matt Davis
And last but not least, Aston Villa against Bournemouth. Congratulations to Alex Scott for getting his first call up to the England squad. I wonder though. Jordan is Andhony Iriola, the new Unai Emery, by which I mean fabled Basque tactico that everyone wants at their club.
- [49:49]
Jordan Cabell
Well it's just a conveyor belt on it so I mean I think they say about San Sebastian it's got the most Michelin star restaurants per capita but I mean or per square meters but I'm pretty sure most of the most like top level managers per capita as well. So yeah I think A Raiola's team is just great fun to watch. And I mean I know people said Emery was naive against Liverpool last week, which he was. But I mean when it does work, when they do play that way it is great to watch as well. So the job done. Amazing to lose three quarters of that defense and to actually look like they've, they've got better. Yeah, I think Adam Scott really deserves that. Such a fun player to watch. Takes the ball and a half ton dribbles with it. Again we have bemoaning the lack of players who play off the cuff but he to me is one of those, those players who just plays with real imagination is really fun to watch. And probably Bournemouth, they've got more, more, more of them than the most in the league. So yeah, hard one to predict but I'm pretty sure that will be one of the more entertaining games we'll see this weekend.
- [50:57]
Matt Davis
Yeah, loads of great games actually to look forward to this weekend then that is where we're going to leave it for today though. My thanks go to Andy and to Jordan and to producer Jay but mainly to you for listening. Enjoy the weekend's football. We'll catch up with you soon.
- [51:12]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producer is J. Beal and the presenter was Matt Davis. Adams executive producers are Abby Patson and Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production and proudly sponsored by betfair.
- [51:47]
Andy Jones
When you're a forward thinker, you don't just bring your A game, you bring your AI game. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people, money and agents so you can transform tomorrow workday, moving business forever forward.
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