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- [00:01]
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- [00:31]
Tim Spears
Boost Mobile. Boost Mobile will give you a free year of service. Free year when you buy a new 5G phone.
- [00:36]
Matt Davis Adams
New 5G phone.
- [00:37]
Megan Faringa
Enough.
- [00:37]
Matt Davis Adams
But I'm your hype man.
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Tim Spears
When you purchase an eligible device, you get $25 off every month for 12 months with credits totaling one year of free service taxes extra for the device and service plan online only.
- [00:49]
Podcast Announcer
The FIFA World Cup 26 is coming to North America next summer. It'll be the ultimate celebration of sports and culture. So get closer to the beautiful game with a hospitality package. Closer to the action in the best seats and suites. Closer to match day elevated with world class food and entertainment closer to the experience of a lifetime. Book a hospitality package@fifaworldcup.com Hospitality. That's FIFAWorldCup.com Hospitality.
- [01:20]
Matt Davis Adams
The Athletic FC welcome to the preview from the Athletic FC. It's the show where we get you set for the weekend's Premier League action. This week our focus is the Manchester Derby. Two teams down on their luck, looking to use the misery of the other to propel them toward respectability. Joining me today are preview mainstays Tim Spears and Megan Faringa. How are you doing guys?
- [01:47]
Tim Spears
Good, thanks.
- [01:48]
Megan Faringa
Yeah, good.
- [01:49]
Matt Davis Adams
Lovely. Also in for the Manchester Derby section, we've got the athletics man in Manchester. Talk of the Devils is Karl Anker. How are you doing, Carl?
- [01:57]
Carl Anka
I'm doing very well, thanks. How are you, Matt?
- [01:58]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, I can't smile wide enough. The sun is shining and the weekend is upon us. And we have got some great games to look forward to this weekend as well as Sunday's showdown. We'll take a look over some of the other key games taking place on Matchday four in the Premier League, including Ange Postecoglou's narrative pleasing first game as Forest boss at Arsenal. But first let's get to our feature presentation. Right before we get to the game, this week sees the glorious return of Put yout Shirt On It, a quiz where our contestants, and that includes you listener, have to guess which player I'm Thinking of, based on the shirt I plucked from my collection this week, is the Man United, third from the 9899 season. It's black with green trim. It's got a collar and the big sharp sponsor on the front, and an equally gargantuan embossed Umbro, which inexplicably plastered above the wearer's derriere. So the player in question wore this kit. Here's the first clue. I'm a former Manchester United player who also played 15 times against United in my career, scoring three goals. Would anybody like to hazard a guess? Keep in mind that if you get it right on the first clue, it kind of kills the feature. So not too much pressure here.
- [03:10]
Tim Spears
So maybe Teddy showing them it's good.
- [03:12]
Matt Davis Adams
But it's not right.
- [03:14]
Carl Anka
Megan?
- [03:14]
Megan Faringa
No, I was three.
- [03:18]
Tim Spears
Megan's getting younger and younger as the shirts go on.
- [03:21]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, Carl knows good podcasting and he knows that if he gets it right, it's gonna kill this feature stone dead. So I'm not even gonna let him answer.
- [03:28]
Carl Anka
Lay it on me. Lay it on me. Keep them coming, brother.
- [03:30]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, clue two to come later. Let's get to the game then. If it were a Friends episode, it'd be called the one where Reuben Amarim doesn't look completely befuddled and on the verge of an existential crisis. He took four points from City last season, including a dramatic win at the Etihad. City have won five of their last eight Premier League games against United, though that they failed to win either last season for the first time since 2020 2021. Loads of threads for us to pull out here, but we're going to start in goal. Andre Anana has joined Trabzon Sporon loan. United have brought in 23 year old Seni Lammons from Royal Antwerp for 21 million euros. Ederson's joined Fenerbahce for 14 million euros. Manchester City have brought in Gianluigi Donnarumma from in a deal worth close to 30 million. Let's start with United. Karl, what have you made of their changing goal two years on from Inanna's arrival didn't work for him. Do you have a theory as to why that goal that he conceded for Cameroon against Cape Verde may be a nice illustration.
- [04:29]
Carl Anka
Yes, a very bizarre goal he conceded. He's in the negative spire right now where he seems to be more focused about can I make a save rather than what is the good goalkeeping bits. We often preach caution in the data department. If I'm talking to Mark Kerry and other Friends. Hello, everyone. About when you take goalkeeping stats that are goalkeeping stacks in X got or post shot, XG refer to your ability to save shots. Whereas there's so much to goalkeeping that is more than that. You know, can you make high claims? Can you give a simple man on shout to your center back so they do the tackle so you don't even need to make a save? Can you do that sort of glower towards a striker so they get so spooked that they just shoot off target, which more than one classic Manchester United legend has managed to do in the sticks? Onana. We never got to see the best of Onana. If you want a theory about it, maybe let's go all the way back to a preseason game against LS where Onana, in his very amphibious style setting, is stood 30 yards off his goal line. Diogo Dalo does a back pass that gets intercepted and Onana gets lobbed in front of the Old Trafford crowd. And I think that probably reduced some of his more adventurous stepping out of net and sweeper keeping that United fans were expecting to see him play when he came over from Inter Milan the very first game he plays against Wolverhampton Wanderers. Not a great game. And it ends with him nearly conceding a penalty from basically poleaxing a player in the final minutes. And then everything fell apart. A back four that was constantly changing and didn't really have too many center backs that were comfortable with the ball at the feet. Without Lisandro Martinez, Onana lost the most obvious place to put his press resistant passes to. I'd say catastrophically bad Champions League group stage in the 2324 season. Where you shouldn't blame one football player for. For not qualifying out the Champions League group stages. You could make a very good argument to say that United would have got out that Champions League group stages if Onan had been replaced by any other goalkeeper and that was that. This was a goalkeeper who was signed to play with his feet and help United beat the press. And then everything else at United broke down and it went Onana, could you just focus on making saves right now? And the answer was no, not really. And that was two years and quite painful. And now it seems that they've broken ties and a new challenger approaches.
- [06:49]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, and we might have goalkeeping debutantes, Megan, for both sides. Tell me what you think about that and the kind of risk that that comes with. And also give us a vibe, Jack, on your United Sporting dad and brother and how they're doing this week.
- [07:02]
Megan Faringa
Vibe check is they're hopeful, like, I think, because there hasn't been football, there's that distance and distance makes the heart grow fonder. Right. You just kind of forget the pain and then you want it again. So, yeah, they messaged me this morning asking, you know, where I'm going to be watching the game. And I was like, well, I'll be at, at some women's sports this weekend, so I won't be down at the game. But yeah, they're excited. I can't wait for full time to see exactly how they feel, but I'll let you know. As for Debutantes, I could see at least one, I think Guardiola, because he's got a track record of doing this with Claudio Bravo back in 2016, it actually worked out in his favor. As much as there was sort of a hiccup in the game pretty famously. It still worked in his favor. They still won 2:1, so I could see Pep Guardiola doing that, which is quite sad for James Trafford because I know that that was quite a romantic homecoming for him. Maybe I don't know Amram as well, but I don't think he's suddenly going to throw in a brand new goalkeeper into this system. It doesn't seem like his style. I just think it's. It's too early for something. And I think United, I feel like he probably feels a little bit more pressured to do it. I think Emram has a lot more to lose here in making wrong decisions when it comes to who's who he's going to put into the number one position.
- [08:11]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, we'll wait and see who starts in this game. But in this game of goalkeeping, musical chairs, gloves, Tim, you are going to be watching the other two, potentially the athletic sending you to Istanbul to watch Inanna potentially face Edison on Sunday. Fenerbahce, the Trabzon sport. You couldn't script it, could you? Except you could and they have over there at the Turkish Super League fixture computer. That sounds like a fun weekend for you.
- [08:34]
Tim Spears
Yeah, I've. I've been sweating a bit because Anana only officially signed yesterday and obviously the trip is all sort of booked. So I was kind of like, am I going to fly four hours to just see a couple of Turkish lads in goal? But it looks like it should be Edison Viana. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. I'm really forward to being there, but I'm not sure that either keeper is going to be that thrilled to be there necessarily. I mean, if you kind of look at their you know, two years ago they were facing off in the. In the Champions League final, and now they're both in Turkey. It does feel a bit sort of beneath both of them, which is probably something I should say after I visit, you know, the notoriously passionate and heated football city of Istanbul. But I was in a taxi last night and my taxi driver was a Fenerbache fan, and he was absolutely delighted that they've signed Edison.
- [09:18]
Carl Anka
Amazing.
- [09:18]
Tim Spears
Yeah, he. I mean, he's certainly got a lot to offer. It's a real surprise to me that, you know, Guardiola's sort of binned him off so readily. He's only 32, got a few years left. He should be at Champions League club for sure. Anana, okay, you know, he's. He's failed at Man United, but there are a lot of reasons for that. Is Turkey going to be the best place for him to kind of have a nice, quiet, consistent season and just quietly get his career back on track? I'm not sure, to be honest, but I. Yeah, I really hope for his sake in particular that Anana has a good debut because it's really horrible seeing a keeper kind of lose their confidence and their judgment over a period of time. And, you know, from the high that he was on with Inter two years ago to where he's at now is quite the fall. So I think you hope for his sake that, yeah, he has a really good season out there.
- [10:01]
Matt Davis Adams
So Inanna's potential replacement on Sunday then, Carl Senay Lemons used to play for Club nxt. Is he ready to make the step up to the main roster, too?
- [10:09]
Carl Anka
Sweet, brother. He's ready for war games on Sunday. Is he not?
- [10:14]
Matt Davis Adams
Everybody loving these wrestling references.
- [10:17]
Tim Spears
I don't get that. Sorry.
- [10:18]
Carl Anka
Okay, I'll start with the wrestling references. Sennet Lomonds is how he pronounced it in his club unveiling.
- [10:24]
Matt Davis Adams
Okay, thank you.
- [10:25]
Carl Anka
Very, very interesting goalkeeper. A statistical darling to the point where he came out so well in the post shot XG that two or three of us scratched our foreheads and went, is there something wrong with the data provided by the Belgian League? Because surely no one can be that good at stopping shots. And then you watch a sort of extended highlight clip of him and you go, oh, no. Wow. I agree with Megan. This is a junction. A little bit too early to throw him in. However, unfortunately for Manchester United, they're only playing in two competitions for the remainder of the season, so there's not actually a good junction to introduce him to. I think Altai Bayinde will Probably start on Sunday because he's more of a known entity and because he is a pretty good long passer. And I'm sure many Premier League football manager will tell you if you're going to play against Manchester City, you probably want to have a good long pass so you can just arrow it down to a big man and then get the counterattack going very quickly. So having a goalkeeping weakness is unfortunate because goalkeeping is one of those finickity positions where once someone figures out what your weakness is, teams tend to just hammer it over and over and over and over and over again and you either adapt or you end up playing in Turkey two years later.
- [11:33]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, that might be where James Trafford's going to end up then. Megan, you're expecting Donna Rummer to start here. What does that mean for Trafford then? He came in in the summer, got the number one shirt.
- [11:43]
Megan Faringa
Yeah, it's like on a human level, you got to feel for this kid. Like kind of, you know, he had lots of critics, he had to defy a lot of them. Went out to acting, Stanley, then Bolton. Even the Bolton fans were like, we don't want him, like, why are we bringing him in? Then he goes and gets into the League 1 playoffs, then he goes to Burnley, he's got this record breaking defense on his cv, does all these things, he's like, cool, I'm finally back City, like, I've proven my worth and they're like, we're going to go and get the guy who just won the Champions League. Like the memes are hysterical. But you do have to feel for this guy just on a human level and I think he's a good goalkeeper. But the pressure to perform out from the back with City, especially like you saw against spurs and then you saw again against Brighton, they put a little bit of pressure on him and he just collapsed. That calamitous mistake against spurs, it probably plays over in his head and it's probably playing a lot of City fans heads. And I just think when you're looking at something like that and then you look at what Donnarama can do. I know Donnarama, like lots of people are saying he's not a Guardiola player, but Haaland wasn't a Guardiola player either. I still think when you look at what kind of goalkeeper he is, the kind of pressure that he's been under in the performance that he's still done, I think James Trafford just kind of can't really compare to that.
- [12:48]
Matt Davis Adams
So then Pep's done a full 180 has he, Tim, on this? And the plan is just going to be get Donna Roma to lump it up to the big man up front.
- [12:55]
Tim Spears
Oh, I really hope it's the start of that era. We know he, he likes Neil Warnock. Right. He gets so well with Neil Warner.
- [13:00]
Carl Anka
They do, they do get on well.
- [13:01]
Tim Spears
Yeah. Maybe they've been chatting about tactical advice.
- [13:03]
Alex Boyes
Yeah.
- [13:04]
Tim Spears
I don't know. It's. It, it has to signify a change of style. I can't imagine they would have signed Donna Rummer, you know, five years ago. The stuff with his feet is probably overplayed a bit. James Hallcastle did a really good piece on that this week saying, look, he's not as bad as you think and look, Haaland is the least sort of pep play that you could have come up with and certainly up front and you know, he's done okay. And James Trafford is supposedly excellent with his feet and then, you know, look at him against Spurs. Megan talks about pressure. I think, I think it's a really good point. And we know that Donnarumma is going to handle that. He's instead of a goalkeeper for the big occasion, he's as good as it gets. It's still strange to me that they've let Edison go because, you know, if you can, if you compare the two, I'd probably, I'd probably still pick Edison, to be honest. But in terms of Donnarumma, you get in one of the best shot stoppers in Europe. Psg wouldn't have won the Champions League last season without him. I don't think some of the saves he made against English teams sort of defied physics, to be honest.
- [13:52]
Carl Anka
It's very funny how he plays an English team and his eyeballs get big and he gets even better. Like, oh, you, you, you got a taste for breaking English hearts in the Euros and I have just, I just want more. He just wants more every time.
- [14:05]
Tim Spears
Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't bode well for Burnley and, you know, Sunderland if it's an English team thing, but yeah, potentially 26 million for a, you know, 26 year old Donna Rimmer is cheaper than James Trafford, unbelievably, is essentially a bit of a deal and I really hope he plays on Sunday because he's a massive character and the kind of player that you want in a derby. I think he'll be, he'll be great for the game and great for the Premier League.
- [14:28]
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- [15:50]
Podcast Announcer
The FIFA World Cup 26 is coming to North America next summer. It'll be the ultimate celebration of sports and culture. So get closer to the beautiful game with a hospitality package. Closer to the action in the best seats and suites. Closer to match day elevated with world class food and entertainment. Closer to the experience of a lifetime. Book a hospitality package@fifaworldcup.com hospitality that's fifaworldcup.com hospitality.
- [16:21]
Matt Davis Adams
When you're a forward thinker, you don't just bring your A game, you bring your AI game. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people, money and agents so you can transform tomorrow. Workday moving business forever forward.
- [16:43]
Podcast Announcer
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [16:48]
Matt Davis Adams
Right, time for Clue two for Put yout Shirt On It. Here it is. I played for eight different top flight clubs, including both the blue and red halves of Manchester. Carl's got his hand up.
- [17:00]
Carl Anka
That is Andy Cole.
- [17:01]
Matt Davis Adams
Oh, it surely is Andy Cole, joint fourth on the all time list of Premier League goalscorers. But he might not be after this weekend because both he and Mohamed Salah are on 18 7. Let's get back to the game then and let's think about where both teams are at going into this one. Carl, 97th minute. Bruno Fernandes. Penalty. The difference against Burnley last time out. United's best game this season, the opener that they lost against Arsenal. Is Ruben Amarim better when the opposition is better?
- [17:30]
Carl Anka
Possibly. I wrote a piece on the Athletic that went out on Thursday talking about how this season it very much seems as if United are trying to bait the press. Not to the same extent Roberto de Zerbi was at Brighton, but there is definitely an idea. If you can bring the press onto you in central areas, you try and play around, hit the ball into the channels for the wing back, the number 10 or indeed the striker to hold on to and then you have a direct attack. Now direct attacks against Manchester City, well, we know that's a good method, especially if their defensive midfielder, be it Fernandinho, be Rodri, isn't necessarily at their physical best. So against Arsenal, Old Trafford, Arsenal very much wanted to take the ball and control things. So they pushed up. Fulham went absolutely not. We're going to match you shape for shape and we're going to put Calvin Bassett to get touch tight on Brian and Boomer. So I think that's why that performance was less impressive. So Ruben Amren's 10 months in charge of Manchester United haven't yielded anywhere near enough victories, but there have been some respectable performances against some of the top six clubs. He's drew 2, 2 against Liverpool at Anfield. He drew against Arsenal, beat Manchester City in the Derby. So yes, this sort of bait the press workaround and go could, could work. I did write a section going, is Pep Guardiola going to go? Actually, let's not press high. And he went well, actually, it's City, it's at home and it's Guardiola. He still wants to control the ball wherever possible. So I'm sure Pep Guardiola is going, this is a trick to bait us, but then also go, we're still going.
- [19:01]
Tim Spears
To go get the ball.
- [19:02]
Carl Anka
So intriguing.
- [19:03]
Matt Davis Adams
What about team news Wise Mattes couldn't use an injury doubt. Right. Does that mean that Benjamin Sesko might get his opportunity at number nine? That being the position on the pitch, not the number of penalty takers that would go before him before he has a go.
- [19:16]
Tim Spears
Nice.
- [19:17]
Carl Anka
Now cheeky. Reuben Amrun said that Cesko was the final outfielder to take a penalty against Kimzy because he was dealing with cramp. I will say Cunha and Mason Mount both went off against Burnley for issues. Kunya has been on Instagram on an exercise bike saying soon come back. But from what we the noise that's emanating around the club is United are going to be less forthcoming with injury news outside of press conferences this season. I think that's why Ruben is different to Eric. So I'm off to Carrington in three hours and maybe I'll have an answer for you there. But in short, if you take Cunha and Mount out of that front three that's been working in the previous three games, you open up slots for Shesco as your number nine and perhaps Bruno Fernandes to be moved further forward to be the left sided 10, which could open up a slot in central midfield for mainly to play next to Casemiro, which would make me happy. Manchester United fan of Ghani and Boeuf.
- [20:15]
Matt Davis Adams
Let's focus on Manchester City for a minute. Tim, coming into this one off the back of successive defeats, you surprised at how open they've looked this season or are we to expect that given that Rodri is presumably still quite a long way off being fully fit?
- [20:29]
Tim Spears
Yeah, I mean, what was it? Eight, nine months out with an acl? That's going to take time. It's going to take time to rediscover his rhythm. And City as a team rely on so much on rhythm, which they really seem to lack. You know, when you think of Pep's best teams, you associate them with words like control or tempo or how sort of metronomic they can be, how intuitive they are around each other. You know, players kind of seamlessly gliding in and out of position and in tune with each other and I just don't see that at all. And there have been a lot of changes, a lot of signings come in, you know, both January and the summer and they haven't quite found a formula yet. And beating Wolves on The opening day, 4 nil is, is no barometer of how good a team is, let me tell you. So they look beatable. You know, they've lost their aura. They lost their aura last winter and Rodri remains a massive part of that aura. You know, he was the beating heart of their team, so I know he's sort of played down his return as being vital to their sort of return to form. But midfield is the key part of Man City's success. You know, it always has been. Gundogan's gone, Reinders has come in, Nico Gonzalez has come in and Rodri's still recovering. So it's going to take a bit of time. But despite all that, I am a bit surprised with their start to the season. I mean, I think it's historically bad for Pep Guardiola in his managerial career. So therefore this is a really important game this weekend. If they were to to lose this one, then they've lost three out there opening four, which would be disastrous for a club like Man City.
- [21:51]
Matt Davis Adams
But they do have somebody who's got plenty of aura, Megan, namely Ling Haaland. 5 goals for him against Mova on Tuesday makes him the first player in the 21st century to score five goals in in three separate games. He had Martin Erdogan providing the bullets for him in midweek, but I guess it's not going to be quite so easy for him on Sunday given that there's no Omah Mahmou, no Ryan Turkey. He's still back in Haaland to be decisive in this one.
- [22:16]
Megan Faringa
I think it's going to be difficult if he doesn't have those players around him. I mean, Haaland does score from so little. Like this is just kind of his magic thing. He could give him three touches in a game and he's still going to find a way to score a hat trick from it. I remember Carl, not long ago you were talking to Louisah on the podcast and he was saying how the new strikers who have come in are going to struggle because they don't necessarily have, in United's case, that midfield to help out Chesko and make sure that he's getting that help that he needs in order to provide those goals. Because the new signings who've come in, the new strikers who have come in are more like a Holland or more like a. They're not going to just create the chances and score them. They're more of the finishing touch. I think that has been a problem for City on top of the fact that their press has just been an absolute mess this season. But I don't think it's. It's fair. Just look at Holland's goals and say, oh yeah, he always scores against United. This is going to be fine. I do think the creative touch around him hasn't really been there and it's not really fair to expect someone like him and these other strikers who've come in this season to do it. And I don't think we've had that issue. You know, we've had these sort of whimsical small number nines always working in the Premier League. That's been the Elk and now we've got this counterculture of kind of old school striker coming in. It's like, oh, we've got to figure out how we be the creative force around these guys again.
- [23:23]
Carl Anka
The big man is back.
- [23:24]
Megan Faringa
Sorry for all the small people. The young people have discussed. I didn't mean to do that. I don't have a sailor's mouth.
- [23:29]
Carl Anka
The big man is back. The big man is back. This has been a very interesting, interesting couple of seasons, both in terms of center backs and strikers. I remember when Lisandra Martinez first arrived in the Premier League and everyone went, it's five foot nine, too short. And I repeatedly had to do a podcast. I'm so sorry. If you listen to this and you're 5 foot 9, I'm not calling you short. This is just the Premier League. And I know Reuben Amrum likes to describe the Premier League as the land of giants and giant center backs. And I think, yeah, you're totally correct. We are seeing increasingly taller strikers. Haaland, Sheshko, Isaac. I mean, Hugo Ekatike is a tall lad as well, which is why I'm also interested in some other football. I'm really interested to see how Brian Brabury, who's just signed for Sunderland because he's the last sort of bull type striker, a bit like Aguero, but like Romare, where they're kind of short but have, like, huge thighs. And I say, how do you get on in 20, 25? So look, putting the ball in the back of the net is incredibly hard to do, which is why Haaland is one of the highest paid football players in the world. And I hope he has an absolutely miserable Sunday.
- [24:31]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, let's wrap this up now with some predictions. I'm going to take the tepid nil. Nil with a red card and a fair bit of ranker. Carl, what do you think the score is going to be?
- [24:40]
Carl Anka
I'm going to say this is a 21 for Manchester United with two goals chalked off for offside.
- [24:47]
Matt Davis Adams
Wow. Okay, Megan, try and match that for specificity.
- [24:50]
Megan Faringa
I'm going to say it's gonna end two. Two. There's gonna be some semblance of a goalkeeping howler and my brother's gonna send me a text at full time to say, for sake. But I don't know. I don't know in what direction it's gonna be.
- [25:04]
Matt Davis Adams
Tim, how can you possibly live up to that?
- [25:07]
Tim Spears
Just one all.
- [25:08]
Matt Davis Adams
Okay, fair.
- [25:09]
Tim Spears
Can't be that. So let's.
- [25:10]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah.
- [25:11]
Tim Spears
One all.
- [25:11]
Matt Davis Adams
Carl, thank you so much for your time today. We shall catch up with you soon, no doubt.
- [25:15]
Carl Anka
Too sweet, brother. I'll see you soon.
- [25:16]
Tim Spears
Take care.
- [25:17]
Podcast Announcer
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [25:21]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, this is the part of the show where, with the help of our partners, Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. Alex Boyes is with me to look ahead to Manchester City vs Manchester United. Before that, though, Alex, have you enjoyed your international break?
- [25:37]
Alex Boyes
Do you know what? I have, actually. It's obviously good to be back. But do you know what? England sort of did put on a show for us, didn't they, against Serbia? And I saw that sort of got the juices flowing for. Even for football fans who pretend they don't really care about the. The England until the tournaments. But we did score some lovely goals in that game against Serbia. And I think I'm now convinced England are going to win the World Cup.
- [25:55]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, great. It was certainly a nice palate cleanser after Andorra, that's for sure. To the big game this weekend in Manchester then. Simple one to start with. What are the match odds looking like for this one?
- [26:07]
Alex Boyes
You know what, Matt, I was gonna say, here we are, we're back with a bang. But I sort of feel like it's all a little bit sad around Manchester at the moment. We've got this underperforming under pressure Ruben Amarim for Man United and Man City, they've. Well, they've already lost twice this season. They just feel a bit stuck, don't they, going back to last season. And they're actually winless Man City now in four games with Manchester United in all competitions, two draws and two defeats. And even though the Market have got pep side at four to six, the favorites on the Betfair Sportsbook, that price is significantly bigger than in previous years in this fixture because you can back man united here at 3 to 1 to win the game, something they did at the Etihad last season with Ahmad's 90th minute winner. But I remember talking about this game only a couple of years ago when Man United were closer to 9:1 in this fixture. So it just shows that even though you can argue Man United have almost gone backwards themselves in the last year or so, Man City are certainly not rated by the markets to the same expectation at all.
- [27:05]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, well, we've been speaking on this show about the potential for some goalkeeping debutantes. Of course, there's a few players for whom this is going to be their first taste of this fixture. At the other end of the pitch, Brian and Burmo, somebody who's caught your eye.
- [27:17]
Alex Boyes
Yeah, look, I promise I didn't mean to come on and sound so negative there. So let's switch up the vibes and get stuck into the players. And it's still a bet builder that I want to take you for this one, Matt. Where Betfair safe sub is live, meaning if your player is subbed off, your bet is not over yet. This means that on selected markets, your bet will roll on to the player coming on to at least keep your bet going right to the end. And it is Brian and Buemo that has caught the eye. He may hold the key to some value for punters this weekend. Man United have actually had the most shots in the league so far than any other team, and only four players have had more than in Buemo. So he's four to six to have a shot on target on the Betfair Sportsbook, but it's actually his to score price that I think is the value. 16 to 5 he is to score. You know you've got 10 players shorter than him to do so, including four Man United players, which for a guy who bagged 20 goals last season, he netted, of course, his first for his new club last time out. I'm just not having that really. So only West Ham have faced more shots than Man City in the Premier League so far, which boards really well. So I'm going to double up that in Buebo. Go with Bernardo Silva to commit two or more fouls at 11, 8. That gives us a bet builder just under eight to one. And he's hit that line in three of his last six games against Manchester United. He's seen yellow twice and he's sort of peps go to man, isn't he, in these big games and with the likes of Bruno Casemiro and co in the midfield, I like those odds quite a lot.
- [28:37]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, sounds good to me, Alex. Thanks as ever for your time. We'll catch up with you again soon.
- [28:41]
Podcast Announcer
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [28:45]
Matt Davis Adams
In all competitions, Arsenal have won their last six home games against Nottingham Forest by an aggregate score of 19 2. The Gunners are unbeaten in 14 games on home soil against Forest. Forest have lost five of their last 11 Premier League matches, only one fewer than in their previous 24 games. Thanks to producer Jay for including a couple of stats designed presumably purely just to make me feel sad. Mission accomplished. So Arsenal looking to get back to winning ways after defeat at Anfield as they take on Ange Postecoglou's Nottingham Forest. Still doesn't sound right, mate. You can go back and listen to Tuesday's Episode of the Athletic FC where Tim and I discussed Forest's managerial change and I pretended that everything was fine. Megan, what have you made of all this upheaval in the East Midlands this week?
- [29:31]
Megan Faringa
Oh, this has been just such a fun saga to watch. If you're not a Forest fan. It feels like I've never seen Hollyoaks, but this is what I imagine is kind of like the scale of the drama that occurs on those kinds of things. Like a manager who is just sort of down in the dumps, vacations in Greece because he's trying to find himself, stumbles upon this other person who, it turns out, actually has a potential opportunity for him, but they need to get rid of the other guy who's already in charge, and there's potentially a coup going on behind the scenes. I don't know, it's just. It's. It's just fantastic, really, in terms of the theater of it. But it's also really unfortunate because I don't think this is how you ever want someone to be treated in the managerial position. Like, I think Nuno probably knew. Like, I think Tim said it on the other podcast of the day, like, once he stuck his head above the parapet in the way that he did, I don't think there was any way of really coming back, but it's still not the way you necessarily want to see someone be treated when they've. They've helped the club in such a fantastic way, getting them into Europe doing what he's done. And I think also it puts the fans in a really weird position because Ange, technically, Ange Foscogen hasn't done anything wrong, per se, except replace a manager that a lot of people felt maybe shouldn't have been replaced and was kind of treated poorly. But then equally, there are other things going on that you need to support the manager. So I think from a fan's perspective, it's also quite. There's a tension there. So, yeah, it's been dramatic. I'm glad that it's over, but I don't think it's going to be the end of the saga. I feel like we're going to have a lot more Forest headlines coming in the next couple of weeks.
- [30:59]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, well, firstly, you're definitely giving the writers of Hollyoaks too much credit there.
- [31:04]
Tim Spears
She's inadvertently stumbled upon Nuno's next job as well. By the way, surely a recurring character in Hollyoaks is perfect.
- [31:09]
Matt Davis Adams
Sad Portuguese man looks for lonely around the streets of Chester. Yeah, I can see it. Postecogli by the way, first four games all away from home in three different competitions. So if he picks up some decent results there, then maybe the City grounds, we'll give him a rapturous evasion when he does finally get to sit in the home dugout there. Arsenal wise, Tim. Feels like ages ago now, doesn't it, because it was before the international break, but everybody was having a pop at Mikel Arteta and his records away to fellow title contenders after that defeat against Liverpool. Particularly the way he approached the game. Phil, do you think that was fair?
- [31:43]
Tim Spears
We did discuss on this show, didn't we, how. How important his approach was going to be. And, you know, if Arsenal are going to become champions this year, you know, they sort of need to play like it. Yeah, I was a little disappointed, really. Look, they are one worldie away from getting a nil. Nil in their toughest match of the season. So you can't be too hard on them. Also, it wasn't their best 11. You know, there's no Saka. Odegaard came on as a sub, Saliba went off. But that's why they beat up the squad, isn't it? You know, for moments like this, it was just their attitude, really. It was very sort of take a point and Arsenal just don't really look like champions in waiting to me. It's very early in the season, but they don't look like that yet to me at all. And Arteta talks of this, you know, sort of being their time and he's got the club to a certain level and now it's about kicking on and the team is there. I think. I think in terms of talent and a defense and potentially now in terms of goals with Gyokerez, it's a team that can win the league. They just need to take that step in their minds, I think that's what I think when I watch them, you know, like all great teams have to do at some point, but they're just. They're just. For whatever reason, they're just not quite there yet.
- [32:46]
Matt Davis Adams
For Arsenal then. Megan, is this a good time to face Forest? Because postecoglou had like two training sessions where. With half of his squad. Or does that make it more difficult because he's not going to go full ange and say to Nicola Milenkovic, hey, defending starts on the halfway line. He'll have to be a bit more kind of pragmatic going into this game and maybe that'll make life more difficult for the Gunners? He asked optimistically.
- [33:09]
Megan Faringa
Yeah, I mean, we've seen him be pragmatic and we've seen him win a trophy because he's decided to kind of not be as philosophical or as tied to his ideology as he historically has been. But the. Then at his press conference the other day, he was saying that he has a particular style he wants to play, he wants to play it. Then he like, prematurely apologized for wanting to play that style. But I think he'll be a little more pragmatic. I think, like you say, he's only had a couple training sessions. I don't know what his fitness for the squad looks like at the moment, but I'm sure something's going to happen and he's going to be out with like, without a player that he needs. But I think if you're Arsenal, you're looking at this and you're going, there's disruption here. We can capitalize on it. And like Tim said, they also need to after losing to Liverpool. So I think this is probably a good time for Arsenal to play them. But equally, you always got that. Was that cliche, the managerial bounce or whatever it is. I don't know if Foster Kalker is a managerial bounce kind of guy, but maybe he is and he's going to prove us all wrong.
- [34:02]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, you're absolutely right, Megan. Of course he's got an injury to deal with. Ola Aina did his hamstring on international duty for Nigeria. Expected to be out for three months. So he'll be back just in time to go to afcon, which is very helpful for Forest. Also, no Oleksandr Zinchenko or Shevchenko, as Postecoglou called him in his press conference. He can't play against Arsenal. Very different players. Ange, I don't think you can turn Zinchenko into Shevchenko, but we shall see. Right elsewhere, team still looking for their first wins of the season. Newcastle and Wolves. They Both play at St. James's Park. And Newcastle will be without you and Wissa for that one. Fulham host Leeds. I'm sure, Megan, you enjoyed as much as me. Fulham giving the August Goal of the Month prize to Josh King for his disallowed goal against Chelsea. They're determined to make this story run and run. Right with Josh King. I feel like he needs to score this weekend so we can just put this whole mess behind us.
- [34:57]
Megan Faringa
Yeah, but I also really like this level of pettiness. Like, it's kind of something I'd aspire to. Like it's. It's nothing that's going to get you in Trouble. You're not going to get a fine, but you're still inserting yourself into like the public domain and saying, remember that this happened to us. I love that. I think it's fantastic. Go on, Fulham.
- [35:14]
Matt Davis Adams
All right. Well, while we're talking about teams, you can't score. Aston Villa, they're going for their first win. They head to the Hill Dickinson to face Everton. It's the Jack Grealish, Luka Dignia, Ross Barkley, Amadou Onana, Tim Irubinham Darby. Do you reckon that, what, Jadon Sancho, Harvey, Elliott, one or both going to go straight in here for Villa, Tim?
- [35:33]
Tim Spears
I mean, you'd assume so. I mean, well, they need to change something up front. The only team in England without a goal yet. This is remarkable, really. Yeah, Villa are in a bit of trouble. You know, you sort of look at the short term picture. Not great, no goals. And the bigger picture with finance is not good. Obviously weren't able to sort of bring in the additions that they liked. Got a few over the line towards the end of the deadline, but not the kind of players that they would have been scouting and trying to sign all summer. There was, there was a hint of desperation about the business that they did with Sancho Elliott and Lindelof on free. You know, it was a poor summer before then anyway. They'd lost a lot of players from last season's squad. You know, Rashford, Asensio, de Sassi, Ramsey. Obviously Bailey's gone out on loan. Problems with Emi Martinez. Only signed Gassan from Nice. And we know in the Premier League if you stand still, you go backwards and you've got teams around them, they're competitors for, you know, European positions. Spending 100 million as a standard, really. Forest, I think, spent 200 million. Newcastle went massive in the end. Sevilla's competitors look stronger to me and I think Villa probably looked weaker even with those additions. I'm not convinced by Jadon Sancho at all, to be honest. You know, his, his career suggests he's been a success at Dortmund, but nowhere else. You know, he was so bad at Chelsea that they paid not to buy him, so I wouldn't be too excited about that. Did some stats on him for a piece through the week. Dortmund, Sancho averages a goal involvement every 95 minutes, but in England it's a goal involvement every 225 minutes and that's over, you know, more than 100 games. It's not a small sample size, so I guess, you know, can Emery revive him like he has done with players in the past, including of course Rashford to an extent last season. I'm not sure. Sancho has also said publicly he doesn't really want to play on the right anymore, he'd rather play on the left. But Villa have already got a sort of plethora of options on the left in McGinn and Morgan Rogers and Gassan. So Elliot, Elliot's the one I'm looking forward to seeing him. And he finally sort of gets a chance in a first 11 to see what he can do in the Premier League. But elsewhere I'm slightly concerned for Villa at the moment. It's a big game for them at the weekend.
- [37:37]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah. In the plus column for them. Morgan Rogers, brilliant for England. Created more chances, completed more dribbles and played more through balls than anyone else. Nesricons have got a goal in that game as well, of course. What about Everton then? Megan back to back wins for them. How impressed you've been with Jack Grealish, the Premier League's player of the Month for August. You turned 30 this week, which feels very rough.
- [37:58]
Megan Faringa
Yeah, I again, like not to only talk. I'm not parentally online, I promise. I'm actually like one of the people who doesn't even use social media unless I'm working. But one of the things I loved a lot was the references to Jack Grealish as this sort of like sad dog in the pound. He's finally been adopted.
- [38:14]
Matt Davis Adams
Yes.
- [38:15]
Tim Spears
Oh, so good.
- [38:16]
Megan Faringa
And it was like that. Like you see the photo of him being embraced by the Everton fans was just absolutely phenomenal. And, and it was just. Oh, it's just a beautiful like emotive image. But yeah, I've been to the Hill Dickinson a few times. I've gotten to see Grealish play with, with, with my partner who's a massive Everton fan. And I have never felt our household as happy as it is. And I don't want to say that our household is a microcosm of the rest of the, the Evertonian landscape, but I do think it is. And I think there's this contagious confidence. You know, you see Everton players doing things, attempting things that I don't think we've necessarily seen. I think of Beto sort of like half dummying, half tipping Dewsbury Hall's cross into the box so when Dye can sort of can finish off the move. And Beto is sort of this lumbering, quite awkward center forward. Sort of looks like a deer trying to walk on two legs at some times. And yet he's doing something that you just wouldn't expect from him. And I think that is sort of a Grealish effect. Even in Dye, I think he's sort of come into his own game. He doesn't have the pressure to be the only creative force in his side. And Grealish, I think is a really big part in that. I think Grealish is part of a bigger narrative here too. New stadium, new ownership, new sense of hope. And Grealish is kind of, I think Paddy Boylan wrote it, he's kind of the symbol of that. But again, it's only been four games. It's not that much. We don't want to hype it up. I think Villa is going to be a really big test if Grealish can have a fantastic game that I think there's a lot to love about this season.
- [39:44]
Tim Spears
For Everton, it has only been a few games and again I brought this up earlier, but winning three one away at what's is not a barometer of how good you seem. Just gotta put that out there. Sorry.
- [39:59]
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- [40:07]
Megan Faringa
Yep.
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Alex Boyes
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Tim Spears
We'll give you a free year of service free year when you buy a new 5G phone. New 5G phone enough.
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Matt Davis Adams
But I'm your hype man.
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Tim Spears
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Matt Davis Adams
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- [41:10]
Podcast Announcer
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by betfair.
- [41:14]
Matt Davis Adams
Incredible amount of games taking place in the capital on Saturday you got five games taking place in London. Lots of different Kickoff times as well. First time that four games have been played at different times in the Premier League in London, there's a very niche stat for you. 5:30, then West Ham against Spurs. Spurs had a reality check last time out, right, Tim, with Bournemouth beating them in their own backyard. So where are we at with Tottenham now?
- [41:41]
Tim Spears
Oh, God. I mean, the biggest reality check, it's basically one of the worst attacking performances in Spurs's Premier League history. It doesn't get. Doesn't get much more of a reality than that. They had five shots, I think one on target at home to Bournemouth. I mean, Bournemouth have, you know, good, but whatever. That is abysmal. I think their XG was 0.17, which is their lowest in any game four years. So, yeah, they were just, they were just completely done by Bournemouth, whose press was relentless. They won every second ball going and spurs had no answer. So, yeah, the adage about, you know, the manager learns far more in defeat than in victory. I would say Thomas Frank learned a hell of a lot more than he did from when they beat City a week earlier. So, yeah. However the solutions may already have presented themselves. You know, creativity was a big issue that day. Their attack just looked a little bit short of imagination and variety. They only really had kudos for creativity that day. But they brought in, as we know, two big, big name attackers in Randall Cola Moani and Javi Simmons, who we talked about on the last podcast two weeks ago. So, yeah, really, really, really interested to see what these guys do. They're both at spurs for a reason. That reason being big moves to PSG didn't work out and sort of derailed their career. They both sort of got back on track slightly last season. Juve for Kole Mourning and RB Leipzig for Simmons. And yeah, now they both find themselves at Tottenham Hotspur pretty randomly and it's Thomas Frank's task to sort of put them into a coherent attack. This is one of the games of the weekend. West Ham sort of revitalized by beaten Forest last time out and. And spurs with a couple of new signings potentially to blood in, so. And a derby to go into the mix of it. So, yeah, this is, this is gonna be a really good one, I think.
- [43:24]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, attractive. Not least because you won't see any half and half scarves. They've been banned for this game. Increased security measures aimed at preventing away supporters from getting into the home section. I mean, is a half and half scarf a signifier of that? I'm not so sure. West Ham wise, though, Megan, they've Got to build on beating Forest, haven't they? Before the break. This would be a statement win for Graham Potter, but he's won two of 10 at London Stadium as West Ham boss.
- [43:51]
Megan Faringa
Yeah, it's not great, is it? But, you know, if they can build on it, I think that's huge. Thought Lucas Pakhta, that that was sort of a moment in which you felt, okay, is this something to build on? You know, him sort of doing the mimicking of the rejection phone call and then kissing the badge. Is that kind of this moment that we'll look back in four months time and go, cool, this is when my Stan finally built on what they needed to do and pushed on from what's effectively just like a really torrid time for Graham Potter. And they did spend this summer and they spent on transfers that are grand Potter players. I know they've lost quite a lot of players too. But at this stage, I think, you know, if Potter doesn't start to win and start to turn things around, I think West Ham really do need to look at themselves and go, right, what do we do here? Because 2 for 10 is not a good record at all, especially not at the stage in which he's. He's been the manager for this club.
- [44:41]
Matt Davis Adams
Northern London Derby and even later. Kickoff time of 8 o'. Clock. Chelsea going to Brentford. The FAA have charged Chelsea with 74 breaches of rules related to payments to agents, intermediaries and third party investments in players. The alleged defences took place between 2009 and 2022. We hear as well as we record on Friday morning that Liam de Lappe is now expected to be out until December after his injury against Fulham. And Megan, I think this makes this really interesting one in terms of Enzo Maresca and who he picks for this because they got Bayern Munich on Wednesday. So this is not a Conference League. We'll play the reserves on a Thursday and the proper team in the Premier League, he's going to have to do some proper squad management here.
- [45:24]
Megan Faringa
Yeah, last season, I guess, was kind of nice in that capacity that you could kind of look at it and go, cool, we can sort of have an A squad, a B squad and maybe even a C squad at some points. And this is just not simply the case. And I don't think Brentford are necessarily as great as maybe they were last season. So Chelsea can maybe look at that and go, we're gonna have to rest some of these players. But I think this is one of Maresca's biggest tests when it comes to being a manager who can Compete on all fronts. This is kind of, kind of be the first litmus test in that way. You know, how do you actually use this squad and also not, not make your players mad? So some of them are going to expect to be the ones that are starting in that Bayern Munich game, but also are going to be really upset if they're, if they're dropped for this. So, you know, how is he going to end up working with those egos? We've seen him do really well in that capacity. But I think this is going to be one of the first really big episodes in which he has to navigate that, that new world. Because last season I think was quite an easy step into how you compete across multiple fronts.
- [46:17]
Matt Davis Adams
Set pieces might be king as well. Keith Andrews, of course, the former Brentford set piece coach. He replaced Bernardo Cueva, who now looks after that for Chelsea, Bournemouth, Brighton. That looks like fun. As we said, cherries beat spurs last time out the same time the Seagulls were seeing off Manchester City. Great role models, Megan, for aspirational Premier League clubs, these two, that you can get some good players in turn a big Prof. On them after a year or two and still keep trucking.
- [46:44]
Megan Faringa
Yeah, I think it was someone, I can't remember which podcast I was listening to because I listened to way too many, but someone had said like Bournemouth was one of the clubs this summer that has just done phenomenally well. And, and I think we always looked at Germany as sort of these perfect epitomizing examples of, of how you should run your club, how you should sell and then continue to move. And I actually think Bournemouth or Brighton are the two clubs that people are looking at in terms of that kind of blueprint. So it is really impressive. And at some point, and again they're proving it, at some point you will keep doing this and you won't just be that club who's hovering at 13th, 12th and 11th. You will start to push for Europe. I don't know which one is going to do, is going to have a better chance of doing that. My gut would probably say Brighton, but I think Bournemouth have just every year improved and improved and it's really nice to see, but also I think it's one of those clubs that you want to see do well because they've managed to do things in quite a sustainable way. And, you know, you don't really get that quite a lot in these days is to have a club that continues to be competitive and stable.
- [47:43]
Matt Davis Adams
Only other game we haven't touched on, Tim, is Burnley against Liverpool at turf. Moore might be quite triggering for Scott Parker. First time he's played Liverpool since his Bournemouth side were beaten 9 nil by them. Free hit though, right? And I guess if you're going to play a big hitter you probably want to do it straight off the back of an international break.
- [48:01]
Tim Spears
Yes, sounds very optimistic to me Matt. The Liverpool's post international break blues. Yeah I'm not sure that quite carries weight but Burnley have made Burnley made an impressive start. They've made some really, really smart additions. Kyle Walker that everyone knows about who's settled in really well as sort of a right centre back as part of the back three and then on deadline day I couldn't quite believe what I was reading really. They signed this Portuguese midfielder called Florentino Luiz who if you watch Portuguese football you'll know of him. He's basically been the best DM in Portugal for about two seasons now. Statistically last season his numbers were crazy and nothing sort of signifies how the Premier League has become the Super League by the fact he's joined Burnley on loan where honestly think, you know Man United looking for a sort of a mobile DM who's great winning the ball back. They could do done a lot worse than signed him. He'd fit brilliantly in Wolves's team. He'd have been a guaranteed signing for Wolves five years ago when they were signing every every single Portuguese player under the sun. So yeah for Burnley to bring him in they've got some really good additions all over the pitch actually and I think think they're going to surprise a few this season. But not against Liverpool.
- [49:07]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, tough game for them that. But that is the preview and the weekend's action. Thoroughly looked forward to loads of great games coming up then if you enjoyed the show, please leave us a nice review. Apple Podcast Spotify Wherever you get your pods we would surely appreciate it. Thanks to Carl Anka for joining us earlier and to Tim, Megan and producer Jay for all their expertise but mainly to you for listening. Enjoy the weekend's action. We'll catch up with you soon.
- [49:34]
Podcast Announcer
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producer was Jay Beal and the presenter was Matt Davis Adams. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Aiddy Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production and proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [50:10]
Matt Davis Adams
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Megan Faringa
Hey, it's Maya.
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Matt Davis Adams
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