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- [00:00]
Adam Leventhal
Exclusively on ESPN. UFC 313 Saturday.
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Mark Critchley
Reigning Light heavyweight champion.
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Adam Leventhal
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Mark Critchley
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Adam Leventhal
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Adam Leventhal
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- [02:05]
Mark Critchley
I am a little under the weather so if I'm coughing and spluttering all my way through this then apologies. But otherwise, apart from my general health, I'm okay.
- [02:15]
Adam Leventhal
That's good. Well, we'll try and we'll try and sort of be the medicine for you as well if we can. I don't know if that's possible when we're talking about Manchester United, but we will, we will, we will admit, endeavor to do that. Also alongside us is someone who's had a better week, Arsenal writer Art De Roche. How are you?
- [02:34]
Art De Roche
I'm all good, thanks. I got back on Wednesday from Eindhoven and went straight into five A side and then I played again last night so it's been a decent week. Hopefully it ends well as well, but we'll see.
- [02:46]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, Dream week. That's great. A question to both of you. To start off with. I'll start with you, Art, actually, because I'll admit to this, I overheard you in the athletic office this week having a conversation with a fellow Arsenal fan, and you were speaking about the game against Manchester United in a way that I didn't really expect because you sounded, even after winning 71 in midweek in the Champions League, that this was almost playing Manchester United of old, that there was some sort of potential peril there. Do you feel like that there's a little bit of fear just simply because it is Manchester United? Or are we in completely different times now?
- [03:26]
Art De Roche
No, I. I'm not sure if fear is the word. Maybe more caution.
- [03:30]
Adam Leventhal
Okay.
- [03:30]
Art De Roche
Because I'm sure Mark will remember a lot of these times, even when Manchester United haven't been great, Arsenal have gone there and not got a result. So I think that's where maybe after the kind of euphoria of the PSV result, everyone was kind of brought back down to earth, seeing that the trip, the next trip is Manchester United at Old Trafford. But the one thing I would say that's, I guess, encouraging, finally, last season, Arsenal did manage to get a positive result there with fans in the stadium. I guess it's more like just natural pessimism. But, yeah, I don't think it's going to be a game that's similar to the performance or result, I should say, against psv.
- [04:18]
Mark Critchley
Well, if it is, then let's not rule anything out. Okay.
- [04:23]
Adam Leventhal
That would be quite something. Yeah. I suppose, Mark, it's more likely that. That it's the Manchester United side of this bargain that's fearing this fixture rather than Arsenal, I think.
- [04:34]
Mark Critchley
So I take Art's point about the historic record that Arsenal have got at Old Trafford and the history of this fixture as well, I think feeds into it and kind of throws the form book out the window, as they say, or whatever. Right. But obviously, I know Arsenal have had problems this season. They're still second in the league. United are 14th. I think that just about spells out everything that's been going wrong. And look, it would be, you know, for all the historic record at Old Trafford that Arsenal have, United's record at Old Trafford this season isn't too great either. Right. They've actually sometimes felt even more inhibited when they've played there almost that there is a level of expectation and pressure that comes with playing in front of their own fans, which you haven't always really associated with them in the past. And it's something that actually Ruben Amarim has spoken about quite publicly and honestly, as he just has about every other topic and everything else that's going wrong at United. So I wouldn't necessarily have too much fear if I was an Arsenal side going there. And then there's the wider context of the game as well. There's obviously going to be a protest. Before people might have heard fans are dressing up in black to mourn the slow death of the club and march into Old Trafford. I mean, we've seen these protests over the years quite regularly against the Glazer ownership. It's a long standing issue, but this season has been the Anas Horribleis, right, of United's kind of Premier League era. They look almost certain to finish in the bottom half of the league for the first time. It's going to take quite a turnaround in results for him to even just creep into the top 10. It really has been a miserable season with very little left to play for in the league, at least now. And so all that kind of feeds into Sunday into just the general area of pessimism.
- [06:14]
Adam Leventhal
Obviously, there's been more stories this week about additional redundancies at Manchester United in addition to the hundreds of redundancies that are planned at the club as well. Just take us into the impact of all of those redundancies on the mood at the club. Like physically at the club, when, you know, players are moving around, staff members that are contributing to trying to sell Manchester United still as a brand. It must have a huge impact on the mood, on the feeling. And that's very difficult to change, isn't it, when there's just a bad vibe around the club, however much Ruben Amarim is trying to come in and instill something new. You can't do that when everyone around the club is thinking, right, well, I've got a now plan for the future. It's having an impact on my mortgage payments, all that sort of stuff. It's really tough this, isn't it? And it's bigger than just a club in bad form.
- [07:11]
Mark Critchley
Yeah, absolutely. Look, I think that it's something you're saying there about the redundancies. It's something that actually a lot of people listen to this podcast can relate to, or perhaps as a process that they've been through themselves as well. These are normal people who have normal jobs, work 9 to 5. Actually, that's a bit unfair because they probably work even longer hours. A lot of people in football do that. They're absolutely dedicated to the profession. And if they're not seeing if their own jobs aren't at risk, they're seeing Those of their colleagues put at risk. I think that feeds into absolutely everything. It also feeds into things that happen on the pitch. And to be fair to Amarim, he's been absolutely direct in this as well in saying that their performances are the driver for the success of the club. So they share and have that burden of that responsibility. If there's difficult decisions that need to be made, it's often because results aren't following on the pitch. And so there's that element to it as well. You know, we've written a lot about United's finances. They've had five consecutive years of loss making. You're talking over £370 million that's been lost at the club. We were writing on the cash situation, which is slightly separate and distinct recently. But if it hadn't been for the money that Jim Rattles put in over the past year, which is about 230 million pound, then they would have had, I think it was 15 million at the bank at the last count. I'd like to have 15 million in the bank. But if you're Manchester United, it's not really enough to keep the football club running sustainably. So there's huge pressures and you know, I think within the context of this game, yeah, it's a huge game. It's United versus Arsenal. There'll be a lot of eyeballs and a lot of attention on it. But we're just coming off the back of the result last night in the Europa League. This is sandwiched right between the two first leg and the second leg against real sausage. That really is going to be the priority because the only route that United have back into Europe next season and the money that that brings is through winning the Europa League. And so I think that is the context of this game as well. It's going to be interesting to see how Ruben Amarin rotates, just how much emphasis he puts on this as opposed to that second leg against Real Sociedad, I should say, which is still firmly in the balance.
- [09:17]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah. And then you contrast the position in terms of the fixtures for Arsenal having 171 out in Eindhoven. Arsenal don't need to worry about the second leg next week at all in any way, shape or form. It was, you know, record breaking first side to score seven goals away in a Champions League game. And it came after two games in which Arsenal hadn't scored. So less away from Manchester United and the sort of all encompassing negativity at the club. This seems like more of a technical alteration that Arsenal have made. So for People who aren't plugged into Planet Arsenal up or what changed and how were the breaks taken off so much in an extreme way against PSV?
- [10:04]
Art De Roche
Yeah, well, the goals issue was one that's not just two games. So I think in the last three of the last four games they hadn't scored and in the one game they did score, the goals came in the 81st and the 87th minute. So it wasn't like they were free flowing. I think the big difference was they were just more threatening with what they were doing when they were in possession. So against West Ham, where they lost 1 nil and Nottingham Forest was a nil nil draw, they still had a lot of possession, but they just didn't do much with it. There wasn't enough movement from those players who didn't have possession of the ball and they really showed that in the Netherlands. I think Declan Rice, even though he didn't win man of the match, probably deserved it because he was the one that set the tone with that playing in that more kind of advanced role in midfield. And I think that's kind of what Arsenal can control if they have a lot of the ball or actually, to be fair, in that PSV game, PSV actually had more of the ball. But I think when you're looking at games where they maybe come up against a deep block and you're looking like, where, where is that difference going to come from? Those are things that they can continue to control and I think they'll try and replicate Old Trafford.
- [11:21]
Adam Leventhal
Mark, how much do you think the eyes being on the second leg against Real Sociedad will be or what impact will it have on this fixture against Arsenal? And how potentially dangerous is that against a side like Arsenal?
- [11:35]
Mark Critchley
I mean, yeah, I take the point and I think that there could be a little bit of rotation at the same time. United's options are quite limited at the moment because the injury list has really lengthened in the past few weeks. You had Harry Maguire and Manuel Garte were the two latest absentees for the game against Real Sausage. And you know, there's no real indication that other players will be coming back to fitness just yet. So I do think Amarim's options are sort of limited from that respect. I think it might bear out in the level of intensity. If you like. United kind of fell off in the last half hour against Real Sociedad and he was talking about the level. He put that down to the level of fitness. I think they might just hang back a little bit on Sunday and let Arsenal Come on to them. It's also something that has typically kind of suited United. They've actually looked a lot better when they've had their backs to the wall and, and they've been able to essentially play on the counter attack and, and play in transition. Amarim spoke about that as well, and he sounded even a little frustrated, but he spoke about. He kind of recognizes the players are more suited to that at the moment rather than the more possession based, the more proactive style that he wants. So I would expect to see that from them. But look, yes, it's dangerous, but I feel like whatever the result is on Sunday, that is not going to have a huge marker, a huge impact on United season at the minute. Like I said, it looks unlikely that they're even going to get the top half. It is a disaster. I don't think it's helpful because I don't think United can keep on losing games and not getting results in the way that they have. And so I think the League season from here on out till the end of the season is really about gathering momentum and maintaining it. If they can do that on Sunday and take some of that at least into the Thursday's game, then that will be a huge benefit to them. But make no mistake, these Europa League games have to be the priority.
- [13:24]
Adam Leventhal
And what's Mikel Arteta saying about Arsenal's situation in the League? Because by the time that they kick off at Old Trafford on, on Sunday, the gap will be, or potentially. Well, I'm giving Southampton a chance, I don't know why against Liverpool, but the gap most probably will be 16 points. How is sort of Mikel Arteta trying to sort of weigh everything up? Is he simply now going to focus on. On the Champions League and hope for. To hope to just sort of cruise home in second place?
- [13:51]
Art De Roche
No, I think the point on momentum that Mark made is probably similar for Arsenal too. I don't think a win would massively change the course of the title race, as you say, Adam, but when you're looking at the spring that Arsenal could potentially have with the Champions League, you need to build on the PSV performance and take the kind of the good themes from that into your next games, so they become habits. So I think that's where Mikel Arteta's head would be. Not wanting the season to just kind of fizzle out by March or even early April. I think he'd want to really build on what's happened at the start of this week and really foster something for the next couple of months. Because even though the title race is probably done, I'd say you'd never know what could happen in the Champions League, even though they're on the tougher side of the draw. So I think that's where his head will be at, trying to make sure the players are still kind of fixed and applying themselves in the proper way so they can actually make something of this season still.
- [14:57]
Adam Leventhal
And we'll get into some of the personnel issues after the break, but just one final one to you, Mark, before we do that, on Ruben Amarim, in terms of what you're hearing and our team of reporters that cover Manchester United, what's the hierarchy's feeling on the levels that Ruben Amarim has been able to reach and the performances that he's been delivering? And if there is no success in any way, shape or form or, you know, a run to the final in the Europa League, anything to sort of cling onto, what do you think the assessment of the job that he has done will be? And is he in any danger?
- [15:38]
Mark Critchley
That's a huge question, I think, look, I think the sense is at the moment that the expectation would have been for things to be better than they are, right. And for the transition towards his style of play, this three at the back system, that that would have been a lot smoother than what it has been. And I think that is. It wouldn't be surprising, right, if that was the sense among the hierarchy, as you say. I think it's the sense among journalist, I think is his sense among fans as well. I don't necessarily get the sense that, you know, his job is in danger, but also I think you can't. And Amarim has spoken about this from the very start. He said when it comes to adapting to this style, when it comes to making the players get used to his methods, he needs to do that and it'll take time to do that. But he's been totally aware that he, to use the cliche, he has to build the error playing while it's still in flight, that he has to do that while winning games. Otherwise you don't get that buy in and you don't essentially. Yeah, you don't get to hang around too long. I think that he is helped in a degree, weirdly, that it has been this bad, this quickly because it almost leaves this back end of the league season, at least as a kind of testing period. And, you know, there's still a really strong argument that whatever happens, and even if they aren't, even if they don't win the Europa League and they aren't in European football next season, that he will deserve a transfer window, just a full summer, in order to bring players in that suit this system. They signed:1/1 first team level player in Patrick Daugu and the last few weeks when he hasn't been getting sent off, he's looked like the most suitable player to the system that Amburm wants to play. I don't think that's a coincidence. I think there's a huge question over whether United will have the resources to provide him with a proper summer window. And then that brings on questions potentially at the start of next season as to whether he has been given enough of a chance still, even though he's had that time and he's had that opportunity. But I think it's only really going to be at that point when we can truly start to ask questions, because he needs that time. Any manager needs that time. You can't argue though that the start has been, yeah, worse. Let's face it, it's been worse than most people would have expected, than anyone would have expected. One thing to Amarin's credit is he hasn't shied away from that and he's totally admitted that. You just hope he's not talking himself out of the job at the same time.
- [18:19]
Adam Leventhal
Before we hit that break, it just made me think of a discussion that we had on a previous podcast. I don't know when it was back in the day at some stage when you were talking about patience and Arteta, and it's not been as bad as it is at Manchester United, but you know, the importance of giving a guy a chance to instill his principles and, and even if there is some rough water ahead, it's, it's, it's best to do that if you, if you trust the initial recruitment.
- [18:49]
Art De Roche
Yeah, I'd say it depends case by case.
- [18:52]
Adam Leventhal
Oh, you've turned your back on time.
- [18:54]
Art De Roche
No, no, no, no, no. But the big thing is, so thinking back to Arteta's time, it did get really bad. At one point. They went, I believe it was seven or eight Premier League games without a win in winter 2020. And what helped change that was a moment which was Boxing Day Chelsea at the Emirates Stadium. Emile Smith Rowe came into the team by surprise and completely changed the fortunes. Then about six months later, at the start of the next season, they'd lost three of the first three Premier League games. Brentford, Chelsea, Manchester City. And again, things looked very difficult for Arteta. Next game, they won only 1 nil against Norwich. It was a tap in by Aubameyang. But again, that changed the fortunes. So I think within the trust and belief the hierarchy had in Arteta, there still had to be moments where they saw, okay, something can change and happen here. He also won the FA cup, which to be fair, I think also made a really big financial impact. Because when Mark was talking earlier about, I guess maybe winning the Europa League this year for Manchester United, what winning the FA cup did that year was put Arsenal back into the Europa League, gave them finances to buy really important players in the summer of 2020. So there's loads of little different factors that I think can really kind of swing what actually happens. And that's why that's why I said maybe it's a case by case basis, because each club's and each manager's moments are just going to be very different.
- [20:43]
Adam Leventhal
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Adam Leventhal
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- [21:43]
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Art De Roche
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Art De Roche
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- [22:37]
Adam Leventhal
Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois so before the break, we were talking about moments delivering a change in momentum. Someone who is continuing to impress art is Ethan Nwanyeri, who's only turning 18 later on this month. Eight goals so far this season, one in midweek against PSV, the main attacking threat for Arsenal. I mean, how impressed have you been with what he's been able to do? And can you see even his teammates being surprised at the authority with which he's playing?
- [23:20]
Art De Roche
I wouldn't say surprised. I think they're used to it. People who watch him often are used to it because I'd say from watching him in the under 21s to now, it's the same player. And I don't mean that in a way where he hasn't evolved or anything, but what I mean is he came into the first team and he just played his game. He played with his personality, put his kind of stamp on games and that's what's really helped Arsenal. It's quite strange when I guess a team is so depleted with injuries and their best players not even 18 years old. I know Mark's probably had that experience with Kobi Mainu when he came into the Manchester United team the season before last. Or maybe it was last season.
- [24:04]
Mark Critchley
Sorry, last season.
- [24:05]
Art De Roche
But yeah, with Wanieri, what's been so impressive is his confidence to make things happen. He. He seems like he already has the picture in his head before the balls even reached him. His goal against Manchester City, he was calling for the ball for about 15 seconds before it eventually came to him and he bent into the far corner. So I think that's been really encouraging. He's not been almost coached out of his way of playing and I hope that he isn't in the kind of following seasons because he is what makes him special, if that makes sense. It's what his brain kind of thinks in the moment. And the other thing I would say is he's not just a right winger he's not just an attacking midfielder. He can do loads of different things and that's going to be really useful for Mikel Arteta for years to come.
- [25:00]
Adam Leventhal
And Mark, you know, when you contrast it to the situation that Amarim is in with Manchester United, we've seen, you know, in his bench selection recently and using youngsters occasionally, but he's not in the position to trust his youngsters quite as much as Arteta is. And that's not to say that one day some of these players might not be great players, but he clearly doesn't have the same level of faith.
- [25:28]
Mark Critchley
No, look, I think it's been quite a point of debate over the last few weeks, certainly since that Tottenham game where the bench was filled out with young academy players and Victor Lindelof. And why hasn't he trusted his bench more? Why hasn't he given chances to these academy players? I can understand that argument, especially within the club's tradition of promoting youth and the long history. It's absolutely fair. And I think Amarim is certainly not under any pressure from the fans at the moment. But this is one criticism that I have seen made of him. The one thing I would say is that playing for United at the best of times is an extremely high pressure environment playing for them at this point in time, at this moment in the club's history, intensely pressurized. And I think you can see that in the performances of the senior players who are out on the pitch right now, any number of those who are perhaps not quite meeting expectations that their price tag set or whatever. I think you can see that it is effectively a burden that's weighing down on a lot of players to throw youngsters into. It is a huge call and a potentially damaging one. I understand that there's not a lot left to play for and that you'd want to see some bright sparks of positivity and optimism between now and the end of the season. And I get it. And look in Chida Obi, obviously formerly of Arsenal, I think you've seen that, right? He's been given glimpses, he's been given small opportunities over the past few weeks. Against Fulham on Sunday in the FA cup, he was really bright. Should have perhaps scored one, if not two. It wasn't registered for the Europa League and everyone's pulling their hair out wondering why. But I think this is why. I think it's because these young players need to be handled with care. They need to be wrapped in cotton wool. They need. They can't be thrown into situations and, well, you know really intense crucibles if you like, as Old Trafford is at the moment. And so I can see the argument from that perspective and I can understand why Amarim has been cautious in terms of implementing the youth too soon.
- [27:35]
Adam Leventhal
I think for United fans listening, it'd be good to get your take on Chidor Obi up because you will have watched him, I say, as a youngster, he's still a youngster, but coming through at Arsenal and there was obviously big debate as to, you know, why is he leaving and why. I know there's different sort of reasons as to why a young player might want to move for money, etc. Etc. Opportunity, but could you maybe give Man United fans even more hope that he might be the one, maybe not the one, but at least one of a group that he can stick with, that Amarim can have faith with in the future?
- [28:16]
Art De Roche
At the very least, to be fair, I think the minutes he's already played for Manchester United are probably the biggest indicator of that. As Mark said, I think the biggest thing isn't him missing those chances that he had against Fulham, but the fact that he is making those runs, getting into those positions at still 16, 17 years old. And I think that's probably the signs that Ruben Amarim will be impressed by in terms of his time at Arsenal, I think, and I personally found it quite hard to judge in real time just because he was so much more physically advanced than a lot of his opposition and that was just obvious to see. So all the goals came with the caveat of that. What I would say was in his kind of latter days at Arsenal, his game was becoming more rounded, he was getting better at his overall play and you could see that there were kind of developments being made. But I still say there's more room for him to grow and I think if he's able to get more minutes under his belt, then Manchester United will probably see more good than bad from him.
- [29:28]
Adam Leventhal
One final point with you two guys on a potential opportunity for Arsenal in this game. I'm sure there will be others from other areas, but one potential area is scoring from a set piece. We saw Fulham score for the third consecutive season in the FA cup from a right sided outswinging corner at Old Trafford. Obviously it's concerning that United haven't found a solution to that. Arsenal, meanwhile, we know, carry us a threat from set pieces, albeit they haven't been quite as potent as they were earlier in the season and maybe last season, but they scored two against United back in December. Let's start with you mark, is there a sort of a. A collective intake of tension or when a team gets a corner at Old Trafford as much as there was earlier on in this season?
- [30:25]
Mark Critchley
Yes, more so.
- [30:28]
Adam Leventhal
It's just a constant.
- [30:30]
Mark Critchley
It's actually become even more pronounced, really. Under Amarim, there's been a bit of debate about exactly where the responsibility for that lies. So at the start of the season, United brought in Andreas Georgsen. I think he was formerly set piece coaster Arsenal. Am I right?
- [30:45]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah.
- [30:45]
Mark Critchley
Is that right? Yep. Yep. Correct. Good knowledge from me. So he, he was formerly Arsenal and it was his responsibility. He'd be the one out on the front of the technical area on every set of piece under. Under Erik 10 hag, that was. Then Amaroom came in and this, this responsibility sort of shifted to his assistant, Carlos Fernandez. Amaroum says that they're both still responsible for it. What we can say is that United seem to have definitely got worse at defending set pieces under Amarim and their record now, I think of total set pieces, only wolves that are worse. And I think I'm conceding from corners. There's no team that worse than United at the moment. I think it's 12 currently. So, yeah, there is a sharp intake of breath. What I would say is that they've actually become a bit more dangerous on attacking set pieces, though. That seems to be working out and you've seen how important Bruno Fernandes has been in that respect over the last few weeks, coming up with a lot of assists from his corners and free kick deliveries. So they might be able to get an edge on Arsenal there. But yeah, I think going into this game, watching Arsenal recently, without Saka's creativity, without Odegaard at the levels that he's perhaps been in previous seasons, has been playing brilliantly, don't get me wrong. But it feels like the biggest threat is going to come on those set pieces. And yeah, I think Old Trafford will be slightly worried once Gabriel starts limbering up.
- [31:58]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, I mean, Arsenal will see this as a great opportunity, won't they, if the goals go back to not flowing quite as freely as they did midweek.
- [32:06]
Art De Roche
Yeah, yeah. So the last set piece goal was against Tottenham in January. And to be fair, I'd say part of that is just because of Bukayo Saka's injury. When you're missing someone who's able to so consistently hit the mark Mark, as he did against Manchester United at the Emirates earlier in the season, I think when you lose that, you just lose so much because a lot of what makes those set Pieces so potent is the delivery. But that being said, Declan Rice on the other side, I think that's probably the side that if Arsenal are able to make an inroad, it will be from Declan Rice's corners. I would also say that even though Arsenal haven't scored from a set piece in two months, it's actually been quite nice to see a lot more open play goals. And I don't think you can kind of. If I rewind the clock a little bit, the set piece stuff almost became like a joke to beat Arsenal with. And then now that they're not scoring set pieces, they're scoring from open play. It's almost like, oh, where have the set pieces gone? It's like, no, he's still scoring goals. I don't mind whether it's from a set piece or from open play, but. But if they're able to create that tension in the stadium, then I think that's kind of half the job done.
- [33:20]
Adam Leventhal
As well, to be honest. I think that tension is already going to be there, isn't it? The first corner will just cause a massive amount of tension. Anyway, Mark, let's get to. And I'll come to you in a minute. Your predictions for this one, please.
- [33:35]
Mark Critchley
Given what I said before about how Amarin feels like the team is better suited with the backs of the wall, I was actually feeling quite positive from United's perspective for this one. But I don't know, can you really be positive and optimistic at the moment? I feel like the best that United can hope for is maybe. Maybe a one one. Maybe just see it out and so that's what I'll go for.
- [33:56]
Adam Leventhal
Okay, Art.
- [33:58]
Art De Roche
So I was kind of thinking about this and I was chatting to Duncan Alexander, who mentioned Arsenal when they've won at Old Trafford in the Premier League. It's only been a scoreline of 1 nil. So 98, 2002, 2006, 2020 and last season, all one. Nils. I feel like this is an opportunity to go for a 2. 0. So I'm going to predict that.
- [34:22]
Adam Leventhal
Okay, well, we shall see. Crit. Art, thank you very much for coming on. Enjoy the weekend.
- [34:28]
Mark Critchley
Cheers.
- [34:29]
Art De Roche
Cheers.
- [34:34]
Adam Leventhal
Um, I think I just won my taxes.
- [34:37]
Art De Roche
Yeah, I just switched to H and.
- [34:38]
Adam Leventhal
R block in about one minute. All I had to do was drag and drop last year's return into H and R Block and bam. My information is automatically there so I.
- [34:46]
Art De Roche
Don'T have to go digging around for.
- [34:47]
Adam Leventhal
All my old papers to switch. Nope. Sounds like we just leveled up our tax game.
- [34:53]
Mark Critchley
Switching to H&R block is easy. Just drag and drop your last return.
- [34:57]
Adam Leventhal
It's better with block. So away from Manchester United against Arsenal this weekend, after Forest in third against Manchester City in fourth, Liverpool have the chance, as we mentioned, to extend their advantage at the top to 16 points on Saturday and they take on Southampton. Let's check in with Tony Evans, James Pearce and Simon Hughes on the Athletics Dedicated Liverpool podcast. Walk on. After Arnas slotside's smash and grab in Paris, I thought Arne Slot was pretty, Pretty honest about it because he said we got more than we deserved, really. But he said, you know, comes down to a bit of luck. And let's face it, an outstanding goalkeeping performance by the. The holy goalie. And the holy goalie. The holy goalie. That's what. I haven't seen that. Have you just made that up now? I may have seen it somewhere else. Yeah. Yeah. But I think that name should stick. I mean, it was an unbelievable goalkeeping performance. And, you know, sometimes it just does come down to that, you know, the individual, somebody being inspired. I think we're so used to watching football now where teams dominate and they end up winning. You don't really see games like this very often anymore, do you? Like maybe, you know, it's sort of like an absolute battering, but just stealing a win. There's no better way to win, Tony. No better way, in my view. No, I agree.
- [36:26]
Mark Critchley
I agree.
- [36:27]
Adam Leventhal
And James, I've seen every Liverpool goalkeeper since the Flying Pig, Tommy Lawrence. Ray Clements is generally regarded as the best.
- [36:35]
Mark Critchley
No longer. No longer. I think we must say Alisson is the best.
- [36:40]
Art De Roche
The reality is that there isn't anyone who comes close to Alisson. And it's absolutely crucial that Liverpool keep hold of him because, you know, there are these kind of murmurings of, well, what does Mama dash really coming in in the summer? What does that mean? And, you know, clearly he.
- [36:55]
Adam Leventhal
He wants to be and expects to.
- [36:56]
Art De Roche
Be a number one the Georgia international. But it would be a huge, huge loss. You know, Alisson is only 32, which in goalkeeping terms is still.
- [37:05]
Mark Critchley
Is still very young.
- [37:06]
Art De Roche
Liverpool should be building around him for years to come because the reality is the day you move on from Alison Becker, you downgrade.
- [37:14]
Adam Leventhal
Now away from Liverpool, we've got Brighton in eighth taking on Fulham in ninth. And that's another key game on Saturday afternoon with a focus on the chase for European football. So look out for that one. And after being dumped out of the FA cup, up to Brighton. Newcastle head to the London Stadium to face West Ham in their Final game before next weekend's Carabao Cup Final. That game is the Monday Night Football. Here's Taylor Payne speaking to Jacob Whitehead and George Culkin on Pod on the time. So we were talking about that West Ham game. It's a distraction, isn't it, ahead of.
- [37:50]
Art De Roche
The Carabao Cup Final.
- [37:51]
Adam Leventhal
A distraction. But like, do you really want to go straight into a Cup final after that defeat? Definitely not.
- [37:56]
Mark Critchley
At least it's a chance to bounce and send the momentum going the other direction.
- [38:01]
Adam Leventhal
I, I agree with that. I just don't think Newcastle can go to Wembley losing games and, you know, expect to then just turn up on the day. In spite of what we said at the start of the show about, you know, about it being a sort of one off occasion and low expectations. And I think Newcastle have to try and dredge something positive somewhere in the next, in the next couple of weeks to take into it. I just don't think you can click your fingers and expect everything to be okay without a bit of positivity behind you. I mean, we've, we, we say this every single time we play West Ham away. It's an absolutely terrible stadium and an awful place to watch football, especially if you're an away fan. But George, it's been a fairly happy.
- [38:39]
Mark Critchley
Hunting ground for us in recent times.
- [38:41]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, it has. Newcastle are unbeaten down there since 2018 19. So I'm sure they'll be trying to. I'm sure they'll be trying to do that again. And as I said, they need to to.
- [38:53]
Mark Critchley
It does feel as if stylistically, West Ham are a team who Newcastle can exploit. For me, I think that they aren't a team who has this massive pace in behind. I think Newcastle's midfield is a step.
- [39:05]
Adam Leventhal
Above West Ham's and the defense is a bit up and down.
- [39:08]
Mark Critchley
I mean, we say all this made these exact points before, earlier in the.
- [39:11]
Art De Roche
Season when Newcastle were at a real.
- [39:13]
Mark Critchley
Height and had a chance to really.
- [39:15]
Adam Leventhal
Entrench himself in the top four. And West Ham were at the lowest.
- [39:17]
Mark Critchley
Under Lopetegi and they went and got pretty comprehensively beast at St. James's Park.
- [39:27]
Adam Leventhal
Hi, it's Alexa Weibel from New York Times Cooking.
- [39:29]
Mark Critchley
We've got tons of easy weeknight recipes.
- [39:32]
Adam Leventhal
And I'm gonna make two of my favorites for you today.
- [39:34]
Mark Critchley
For my five ingredient creamy miso pasta.
- [39:37]
Adam Leventhal
You just take your starchy pasta water, whisk it together with a little bit of miso and butter until it's creamy, add your noodles and a little bit of cheese.
- [39:47]
Mark Critchley
Mmm.
- [39:47]
Adam Leventhal
It's like a grown up box of Mac and cheese. An easy weeknight recipe that feels like a restaurant quality dish. Next up, I'm making my vegetarian mushroom shawarmapitas. This recipe is just built for efficiency. You toss your mushrooms and red onion in your spices, throw them in the oven. By the time they're done, your sauce.
- [40:06]
Mark Critchley
Is ready, you've chopped your cabbage and.
- [40:07]
Adam Leventhal
You'Re ready to assemble. It feels crazy that something that tastes this complex and looks this colorful and beautiful is actually really easy to make and takes just 20 minutes of active time. It's just delicious. New York Times cooking has you covered with easy dishes for busy weeknights. Find these recipes and more@nytcooking.com smells so good. Meanwhile, Chelsea in fifth. They take on Leicester on Sunday. Now Chelsea were in conference league action this week. They beat Copenhagen 2 1. The athletics Chelsea writer Simon Johnson was watching that one.
- [40:44]
Art De Roche
Chelsea were fully in control at 2 nil.
- [40:48]
Mark Critchley
And again, it's the manner of the goal.
- [40:50]
Art De Roche
I mean, Chelsea keeping clean sheets has been a problem all season and one of the reasons why is the sheer lack of concentration. It feels it's a concentration issue eventually. A bit like in the league. What, what worries you going forward in this competition is that this tendency to switch off, to not concentrate, to not keep that focus could cost them in. You know, this is cup football and there will come a time if they're.
- [41:19]
Mark Critchley
Not careful, that it will actually cost.
- [41:22]
Art De Roche
Them their place or their chances of winning the whole thing.
- [41:26]
Mark Critchley
So things have to tighten up.
- [41:28]
Art De Roche
But I feel like this is a bit of a broken record as far as Chelsea is concerned. I feel like I've been talking about.
- [41:33]
Mark Critchley
This since pretty much the start of the season and yeah, it certainly soured a little bit Enzo Maresca's mood.
- [41:42]
Adam Leventhal
So that's the Chelsea side of things. Leicester obviously needs something this weekend. Ipswich 2, both clubs five points away from safety. Ipswich though, at one of the form sides in the league, that's Crystal Palace. Both Ipswich and Leicester hoping that the lowest hanging fruit wolves in 17 are beaten by Everton. Now the next time that you hear me is going to be on Sunday with the release of our latest special episode of the Athletic FC podcast. Now if you've ever bought a fake football shirt or you just want to learn more, the underground world of fake football shirts is the podcast for you to finish. Here's a quick taste. A fight over the fabric of football.
- [42:32]
Mark Critchley
£115 for a football shirt that is disgusting.
- [42:38]
Adam Leventhal
Fakes are on the rise.
- [42:40]
Art De Roche
Our jersey price is very nice cages only need 17 pounds.
- [42:45]
Adam Leventhal
The game has a problem. There's a perfect storm in the football world at the moment. But what's underneath that fake football shirt? It's well documented internationally that counterfeit crime funds terrorism. Why would they completely avoid stuff like that?
- [42:59]
Art De Roche
Is because of your personal information being stolen and being hijacked. When we look into counterfeits and we often find that there's also drugs involvement.
- [43:08]
Adam Leventhal
And those represent real, immediate safety dangers.
- [43:12]
Art De Roche
So if you were wearing that product, you were actually poisoning yourself.
- [43:16]
Mark Critchley
Buying that fake jersey is far from a victimless crime.
- [43:23]
Adam Leventhal
Please let me know. I'm Adam Levanthal. I've spent the last nine months looking into the illicit trade of counterfeits, uncovering some shocking details along the way. This is a special episode of the Athletic FC podcast, the underground world of fake football shirts. The Athletic FC podcast network.