D (2:43)

I think peace goals. You saw him clarify his comments this week and he might pick you up on that. But yeah, look, I think Carrick has repeatedly said through his time in charge so far not to get carried away or Carricked away rather. And I don't think anybody's getting too Carrick away right now. I think that was certainly the overwhelming feeling after Newcastle that it had been coming. And if you look at the games that have been leading up to it, I mean Fulham late winner, West Ham late equalizer. Everton a tight game with a lateish goal. Late goals are good, don't get me wrong. But you want dominant performances to go alongside them and I think those games fell somewhat short of that. And there were even caveats to the spurs and the palace wins against. Against 10 men. Because United were level in both those games when it was 11v11. And then they failed to beat 10 men against Newcastle. So that becomes a problem again. I think the midweek games and the midweek turnarounds, three, that was. That was maybe part of the issue at St. James's Park. They've not, they've not done well midweek this season. United did not won a midweek game all season from Grimsby onwards. But they won't have another now because of the way things have fallen with Brentford going out the FA Cup. And I think that is a huge plus in this hunt for the Champions League race. So it's a grounding, it's a reality check. I think it was one that was in the post, one that was necessary, but it's not. The sky's not falling in at the same time.

C (4:02)

Well, as you mentioned, unlike all the teams around them, basically they haven't had any FA cup or European football to navigate. They've had 10 days to reflect on that defeat. And this is the key for them, right, Tim. They've got this extra time on the training ground, but also extra time to rest and reflect. They're going to play what, maybe 20 games fewer than the likes of Villa and Liverpool this season. It's there for them. The Champions League.

E (4:29)

Yeah, they've got this mad sequence which they're in the middle of now where from February 11th to April 11th they play five matches. I mean, obviously there's an international break in there, but that is just one match every 12 days. It works out as they've played three of those. So there's only. There's only a month now with another two matches. It must be Pretty unprecedented in the club's modern history. I can't imagine they've had a run like this with so few games since, what, the 70s when postponements were quite common.

D (4:57)

The first 40 game season since the First World War. I think I'm going to get the date slightly wrong, but since around that time, yes. So unprecedented almost in modern times. Yeah, even. Yeah, modern times, let's just say that.

E (5:10)

And it's an interesting test for. For Carrick because, you know, in theory, United should be, I guess, fresh and firing, but I think what, one match in 12 days sort of leaves you with a lack of rhythm, probably potentially leads to sort of slow starts in matches, which is like we saw against Palace. And training's got to be good if you. And, and, and fun and, you know, keep the play stimulated. And also there's the debate as to how much time off you give them because it's. Yeah. What do you do with all this time? It's not an excuse for sure, but players are used to playing and they want to play and it's an interesting dynamic to the season. And for the journalists. What are the journalists right about, Mark? What are you. How do you. How are you?

D (5:46)

It's, you know, it's rough, unfortunately. There's always something going on at Manchester United that is usually in crisis, so it's not like we're short of things. But I'll say this season has been a stretch. That is, it's definitely been a stretch.

C (5:58)

Well, one thing you have been doing, Critch, is investigating this managerial situation. What's the latest on whether Carrick could get the gig full time?

D (6:07)

Well, look, I would say that he's put himself in something that is approaching the best possible position. I don't think necessarily that Carrick's name would have been banded around as a permanent candidate before this spell and absent of this spell. But I think you can say that there's been clear improvement on Amarim's time in charge, even if the results have tailed off slightly and performances have tailed off slightly. Now, United, they're still very happy with those results. I think they can feel a sense of vindication about the decision, the turnaround that Carrick has led. And there has been a bit of a shallowing of the pool of managerial talent that we expect to be available in the summer. And also, like competition is emerging for potential vacancies elsewhere and I think that only really strengthens his case as well. So he's certainly in the conversation. I think he could be at the forefront of that conversation. If they get Champions League. I don't think the Champions League can be underestimated here in its importance. We reported shortly after Carrick got the job that Jason Wilcox had set Champions League as the target for the remainder of the season. Literally in the meeting with the players the morning that Amarim packed his bags and left, that target was set. And previously they'd only really been looking at the Europa League. But the landscape of the Premier League is very different to what many have expected this season. So even on that morning, I think you could look at the league table and say and make a reasonable argument that United should be in the race if they improved, and they are now. And that's down to Carrick and that's very much in his favour. He's had eight games where eight good results, largely broadly. But I think the next nine games are going to have as much of a bearing on that as anything else. And the consistent message that you get back from the club is that they're not going to rush into a decision until the end of the season. I know there's been a lot of comparison with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and his time and his interim spelling charge. I think some of them are unfair. I think Solskjaer ended up doing a pretty reasonable job at United in retrospect, certainly relative to some of his successes. And it's often forgotten that Carrick was part of that as well. He was part of the staff assistant. There was a lot of responsibility that was on him as well. But I think one important point of difference with Solskjaer is that United hired him permanently mid season and then the results dipped. And it's always quite an intriguing counterfactual to me. What if they just had waited? How different would the last five years of United's history look if they had done something differently there? Now it is. It's a different leadership now and you can imagine that. I'm not saying that is informing the decision, but you can imagine that partly informs United's approach, which is despite Carrick impressing so far that they want to wait and see, that they want to carry out a Fulham for a process and that will come by the end of the season.

C (8:31)

Well, he's got them third. They're above Villa on goal difference as it stands. Great to hear the word bandied there on a Friday. One of those football only words like a judge didn't remonstrate. Tim, would you be giving him the gig? I mean, there's got to be a bit more due diligence than just saying, yeah, he's done all right, let's give it to him.

E (8:47)

Yeah, I think he's proved himself worthy of being the man, you know, for the moment, obviously, and it's been a good appointment, but he hasn't proven himself worthy of being, you know, Man United's football club manager in the sort of long term. We're going to find out a lot now because, you know, how you deal with adversity is, is obviously a key test for him. You know, they've lost their first match. How does he, how do they respond to that? It's, it's a lot easier dealing with unhappy players who aren't playing when you're winning every week. How you deal with them when, when they're losing and they're still not playing is a completely sort of different thing. And yeah, you know, it's one thing sort of coming in and galvanizing a very unhappy squad and a confused squad by making some pretty obvious changes to the starting 11 of the system. I think, you know, we all saw what was going wrong with Amarim's team, but it's another then sort of making changes and alterations beyond that once things start going badly. So, yeah, we're going to see that now. You know, the key, the key for their sort of medium to long term future is the structure above him. I think it's, it's those people who need to be doing their jobs properly. You know, the sporting director, head of recruitment, technical director, whatever. They're the ones that need to provide the players that the manager wants, whoever that man is in the summer. Obviously that wasn't the case with Amraem. I think that's, that's, you know, a big reason as to why they failed with the, with the 343 system. He was so wedded to that the club sort of weren't aligned on those fronts, from head coach to sporting director and beyond. So that's what they need to make sure they get right in the summer. Whether that's Carrick, you know, remains to be seen. But he, if he does see this through and they finish third, United would have had the best six months they've had for some time, I think. So it would, it would be hard to say, you know, thanks, see you later. But it's, yeah, it's, it's still not obvious to me as to where they go. But as Crit says, you know, the next few games are going to really define that.

C (10:35)

Let's turn our attention to Villa then in Europa League action on Thursday. Night they won 1 nil away to Lille. Tim is securing Champions League football through winning the Europa League currently looking just as if not more of a plausible route for unai Emery. Or is that just my typical English arrogance showing?

E (10:54)

I mean, potentially they're in a really tough part of the draw. I mean if they overcome Lille as you sort of, you'd expect them to now, the other half of the draw is a lot easier, you know, if you look at who they'll potentially play in the final. And I know you've looked at this mat even with your sort of self deprecating Forest hat on the top half of the draw with like Leon Real Betis, you know, Robbie Keane's Ferenc Varos, that's the sort of weaker half of the draw. But whereas Villa's route to the final would be Roma or Bologna next or you know, Roma would be a tough test and then a semi final against either Forest or Mitaland or Porto or Stuttgart, which is definitely harder. I'd say Porto and Villa are probably the, probably the strongest teams in the competition. But yeah, it's, I mean it's a trophy. He's won. Emery's won what, four times. He knows the competition inside out. He knows European football inside out. I think they've got a good chance of winning the whole thing. Absolutely. I mean Thursday was a massive result for Villa. They'd gone four without a win. They're looking pretty shoddy. Ollie Watkins has gone seven without a goal. So for the winless run and for Watkins, Baron run to both end on the same night. And John McGinn is back from injury. That's sort of the perfect evening for them really and sets them up pretty nicely for Sunday.

C (12:10)

Need to transfer this into the Premier League though, don't they, Chris? Three defeats, two draws in the in their last, six in the top flight. That four one hammering at home to Chelsea, their most recent league fixture. But as Tim mentions there, the return of McGinn is timely. Right, still no Kamara or Tielemans and the fact that they haven't had that midfield is probably a big reason for their drop off post Christmas.

D (12:31)

Yeah, definitely. I think that's basically a first choice. Midfield wiped out and I know that I don't think Amadou Nana and Douglas Louise, they're not massive, it's not a massive downgrade. I thought Luiz was, he was in my team of the year a couple of seasons ago, back before he left Villa. I just thought I was really impressed with watching him every week. But that is still definitely something that's affected them over this last run. Having McGinn back is really important just for his character, for his leadership. Obviously plays in that ride White channel and they've got no Sancho for this one so he can slot in there. So I wouldn't downplay the impact of those injuries at all. I remember the reverse fixture back in December that was almost at the peak of this debate around Villa's over performance, if you like, and versus XG and when they were slapping in 40 yard screamers every week. And I know Villa fans were very resistant to the idea that that was unsustainable at the time. I think you have seen that them come back down to earth essentially over the last few weeks and it's not that surprising in that respect. Nobody's talking about surprise title challenge anymore and I think we can see why. But even so, that something that a lot of people said was in the post, that has to be seen within the context of those injuries which had been really key to them. And yeah, I think they need those two players back quicker than, well, quickly essentially, because they are such important players for them.

C (13:51)

All right, let's take a little break here. We'll come back, talk more Manchester United, Aston Villa and the hunt for European football.

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E (15:32)

This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.

C (15:37)

There are just three points separating United in third and Liverpool in sixth. Villa and Chelsea, the teams in between them. United have dropped five points from their last five games. Villa have dropped 10, Chelsea seven, Liverpool six. A lack of consistency and quality across the board. Maybe critics making it a good spectacle for the neutral though.

D (15:58)

Yeah, that's how tight this race is and I expect it'll stay that way from now until May. To be honest, you look at the run ins, I think Chelsea have the toughest, but we always look at run ins and fixture difficulty at this time of the season. But it almost loses some of its significance just as they become more relevant because you can be playing three of the bottom four. But if they're scrapping for the lives, you actually want someone like Brighton or Bournemouth and teams that are on the beach, quite literally in Brighton and Bournemouth's case, to play against because they've got less on the line and incentives change and motivations change. There's such inconsistency and such parity within the Premier League this season that I think, you know, especially compared to the past, talking about drop points there, you could pick a range of teams elsewhere in this league and tell me how many points to drop. I don't think it would be that different. It feels like the old cliche that anyone can beat anyone on any given weekend in the Premier League. Well, that has been more true this season than ever. I think everybody's taking points off each other and so particularly in this race though, the upper end of the table, I think it's going to be nip and tuck right until the end of the season and I think the signs have been that have been there throughout and that's the way that it's going to play out. We probably like, as important as this game feels, I feel like whoever and I think one of these teams could end up in sixth on Sunday if results fall a certain way. So United could certainly fall down to six and that would feel like a bit of a body blow. But it's going to be so tight. I don't think it's going to be terminal for the team that loses this game if one does.

C (17:19)

And there's no easy games, as they say, Tim, in the, in the Premier League this season. But it does ramp up the importance when you, when you play a fellow Champions League hopeful. Right, as is the case at Old Trafford on Sunday.

E (17:31)

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. As Chris says, it sort of rings More true than ever before really. I mean people talk about the sort of point mark for title winners is going to drop this year because the league is stronger and yeah, lack of consistency for the top teams. But I mean that's also why my team Wolves took so long to beat Derby's points record because you know, yes, they've been absolutely hapless but the league is so strong there's just no, apart from spurs away there, there are no easy matches for anyone at the moment. And you know, again to use the Wolves example, Wolves haven't been thrashed at all really. Their heaviest defeat was the opening day of the season, 40 against Man City. But they've only lost by a three goal margin on three occasions since then. And you know you see Chelsea being held by Burnley or Leeds holding Villa and Chelsea or Wolves beaten Freeland, Liverpool and yeah, it just really exposes the kind of. It's a brutal division and I do think this is one of the reasons that we're seeing English clubs suffer in Europe this week because you know, you can't rest players for any match really. You know, every game is difficult.

C (18:34)

Yeah, four defeats and two draws for the six teams involved in Champions League action from the Premier League this week. As Tim hit the nail on the head there, Chris, do you think it's just the competitiveness of the Premier League counts against the sides when they go into the Champions League or is it just that they all played decent teams?

D (18:51)

Yeah, I am more aligned with the latter of that. I think the level of teams that these Premier League clubs were playing this week, City going to Madrid, Chelsea going to psg, even Tottenham going to Atletico, difficult games and away games as well. And so it's not entirely surprising that in a first leg they've lost. Now the scale of those defeats, I think there's a debate around fitness, there's debate around the intensity. There's probably a debate and I really can't be bothered to have another debate about set pieces. But that's in there as well. Given some of the refereeing that we saw and how that was being clamped down upon and whether that particular shift that we've seen in the, in the Premier League this season can the same success can be carried out at European level. I'm not sure on that. But sort of absent of all of that, it's not a huge surprise that if City go to Madrid that they might lose or if Chelsea go to PSG that they might lose. And I think what we saw was, you know, the six games that we saw this week doesn't necessarily eradicate everything that we saw during the league phase, which was a story of Premier League domination, which was a story of Tottenham finishing fourth in that league phase despite. Well, we all know Tottenham struggles this season. So I don't think that wipes out entirely. Although it has been something of an emergent pattern over the last few years. I still don't hold out. Certainly City, I think, I don't, I don't think that ties totally done yet. It's, it's a, it's a big margin to try and to try and close the gap on when they go back to the Etihad, but I don't think that ties totally done. Even Chelsea, I don't know. No, Chelsea's probably done. But I think the broad trend that we've seen is that yes, the financial might and power of the Premier League, maybe that's squandered a little bit, maybe they waste it, maybe it could be used to more effect. But the overall trend of English clubs being more dominant in Europe isn't eradicated just by the results that we've seen this week.

C (20:39)

Sure. Let's get back to Sunday's game. An area that's plagued Manchester United of late. Is there lack of width that Patrick Dawgu injury hurting him and hurting United at the moment. Where can Carrick find some solutions for that on Sunday?

E (20:52)

Chris?

D (20:53)

Well, it's tough. I think width is a key issue for United and Karl Anker. My colleagues write about this this week and sometimes under Carrick it's just a little bit too predictable in that respect. Daugu brought a lot on the left wing in his two games under Karaki City and Arsenal. He was pretty good actually against Burnley as well in the same role in Darren Fletcher's one Premier League game in charge and I think he was bringing a sort of aggression and intensity but also particularly a one on one ability that is missing in the rest of the squad. Certainly outside of Ahmad, he himself hasn't been in great form since coming back from afcon. Ahmad hasn't been start well. He didn't start against Newcastle. I wonder if he'll come back into the team. But then that has a knock on effect for either one. Acuna, Seshko or Nbumo. You can't really play all four in this same system. It'll be interesting to see what Carrick does there. I think Dhor Gu's a miss, yes, but then somebody else who's just as much of a miss I think is Lisandro Martinez, who's been out with a calf issue, you know, nobody else other than really Fernandes has the ability to play the ball through lines in this United side. Certainly when they're building up from out the back. Martinez, I mean, at this point, we'll see what Carrick says later today. It doesn't look like he's going to be involved at the weekend. That is a big blow. They've been missing delict since November and he was initially expected to only miss a few, a few days or even be back for the next game. But that's been something that's run on for months and months and months. So there is a little. There's a creeping injury situation at United that is causing Carrick a bit of a headache to find the right profiles that he needs and it's not necessarily a nice headache to have.

C (22:20)

He's also got a headache, Tim, in trying to squeeze Cunha and Embermo into the right positions for them, more sort of tensions as they were under Ruber and Amaram than, than wingers as they maybe have been of late. That's a big issue for him to solve.

D (22:33)

Right.

C (22:34)

Because those two could be key.

E (22:35)

Yeah. Cesco's goal scoring form has, has inadvertently created a bit of a problem as to how you, you fit the 3 in, which is a problem, you know, that they were absolutely expected to have when they, when they spent what, more than 200 million on the three of them in, in the summer. And now. Yeah, it's Carrick's job as to how to sort of solve that. I guess Kunya's a bit of a free spirit. I guess he likes to, he does tend to drift in. I mean, he likes to sort of follow his instincts, I think when he's sort of moving around the pitch naturally. More of a sort of a mercurial individual rather than a team player, I would suggest, which is why he was so effective at Wolves last season because he effectively had a free role he didn't have to track back. He did a lot of walking and you know, he could have exploit the, he could like exploit the gaps between the lines and in that sort of left half space. And his end product was, was. Was remarkable really. So that's a challenge for Carrick. You know, if Kunya is going to drift naturally, then you need someone to plug those gaps and it's, it's asking a lot of Luke Shaw or whoever's at left back, you know, to do that. But these are the tweaks that you need to work on, on the. On the training ground. So he's got the opportunity to work on shape a lot in training with. With this sort of lack of matches. So I guess there's. Yeah, there's no excuse for not really trying to solve that. They should have plenty of time on the training ground to figure that out.

C (23:49)

Yeah. Unlike Villa, Morgan Rogers, the difference maker when the sides met back in December, two brilliant goals. But Villa have had issues of their own in attacker Blake. They've only scored four in the last six games. Rodgers himself has only found the net once in his last 12 league outings. Tim, you mentioned Dolly Watkins goal on Thursday night. Welcome for him and probably enough to give him the start here over Tammy Abraham. Or will Emery be tempted to rotate given the proximity of Thursday to Sunday?

E (24:17)

I mean, it's such a big match you want to play, you've got to be playing your best 11. And I assume, you know, Watkins, they'll be sort of looking to get him in behind Maguire and for sort of Rogers and Buendia to feed him those through balls. And if McGinn starts, you know, Villa's midfield is. Is so much more effective with, with McGinn in it, with his pressing with his ball, carrying with his. His positive play to sort of get Villa up field, you know, a lot quicker. You know, I think he makes Rogers better, he makes Buendia better. But whether McGinn is fit to start, I'm not sure. I think he only sort of came on for like 15 minutes on Thursday and he's had a few weeks out, so that'll be interesting. Watkins has never actually scored against Man United in the Premier League, surprisingly. He's played 13 times against United in all competitions in his career and he's only scored once, which is in an EFL cup tie. So you think maybe Tammy Abraham will be the man, maybe give him a go. But he hasn't scored against United either. 7 matches, 7 career matches in all comps and no goals against United. So, yeah, I don't know, can they get. Who can they get guessand back or John Duran or someone? Because their strikers, yeah, have never scored against Man United in the Premier League. I mean, I guess it's got to change at some point, but not a great record.

C (25:27)

Anybody got Dwight York's number? Chris, you're going to be going to this one. What's the score going to be?

D (25:34)

I think I'm going to go for a 1:1. I think there's still a little bit more room to come back down to earth for Michael Carrick United maybe. But I think the performances have maybe not quite matched results and even still the results sort of outstrip the performances to a point. The one thing I think is that final game of last season, corresponding fixture. Everything was on the line for Aston Villa to get into the Champions League. Absolutely nothing for United. Days after the Europa League final and United strolled out to a comfortable 20 win. And they seem to have a sort of hex over Villa where I think the record is. Villa's just at Old Trafford is fairly horrendous in the Premier League I think. So that sort of tilts me towards United. But I just think the way that things are going at the minute, I think it's too tight to call and

C (26:18)

maybe one, one point of piece for you as well, Tim.

E (26:21)

It's interesting how it's often there have been quite a few sort of season almost season defining fixtures between these two teams at Old Trafford over the years. If you remember, United won the title against Villa. I think that was Fergie's last title, maybe correct me if I'm wrong, which I was at actually. Percy scored that. Yeah, astonishing over the shoulder volley from Rooney's like 60 yard pass. Probably the best goal I've ever seen live. I think I was in the Villa corporate box or a corporate box for some reason. Had had quite a few glasses of wine and that was. Yeah, that was enjoyable. And then do you remember the. Was it. I'm sure it was the Mercada game against Villa.

D (26:56)

Yeah, it was, yeah.

E (26:56)

Which probably around this time of year as well. So yeah, a few sort of season defining fixtures over the years including of course at the end of last season and that. Yeah, you just asked me for a score, Matt. I don't know why I'm talking about all this but yeah, it's going to be one all, isn't it? As Chris says. Yeah, we'll go one all.

F (27:12)

Wow.

C (27:13)

It's fun to reminisce. Everything was better in the old days, wasn't it? That is two o' clock on Sunday at Old Trafford.

E (27:19)

This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.

C (27:24)

Well, this is the part of the show where with the help of our partners Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. We got James Mackie back with us. Big week for James with Cheltenham going on but he's still got time to talk Premier League with us. It's Manchester United versus Aston Villa. James, massive game on the last day of last season. Not many people expecting United to win then what do the match odds say for this season's iteration?

F (27:48)

Yeah, as you say match. A huge game for the race for Champions League football next season. The Betfair Sportsbook has the home side. Man United has the 4 to 6 favourites to take all 3 points in the Mach Odds 90 market. And you can see why as United have lost just two of the last 37 home league games against Aston Villa, which is an astounding start. Villa, they obviously got a massive result away to Lille on Thursday. Hopefully for them that can put them on the right track in the league. It'll do their confidence. The world are good, but they're the huge outsiders here at 165 to take the away win. But they're actually looking to complete the league double over Manchester United for the first time since the 195455 season, which is another astounding start. I can't believe how long it's been for them to complete a double. And they've got a good opportunity on there at the weekend. The draw is priced at 12 to 5 and you can see this one being a really tight affair from the outset, can't you?

C (28:34)

Yeah, absolutely. Bruno Fernandes, FPL favorite and he features heavily in your bet builder this week.

F (28:41)

Yeah, he does. Look, you can't talk about anything good United do without Bruno Fernandes, can you? The bet builder this week as usual is three legs starting with Man United's main man Bruno Fernandes, whose goals and assists this season have been worth 23 points to Manchester United. Just showing how crucial he is to that side. In Premier League history, only three players goal involvements have been worth more to the Red Devils. So that just shows you again he's 811 to either score or assist in the game on Sunday. So that will start us off in the bet builder. I think there could be goals in this game map for both sides. So I'm adding both teams to score 8 to 13, which is landed in three of the last five meetings between the two sides. And finally, I do think Man United will take the home three points at four to six having won six of the last eight. And they can look they need this win to bounce back from the port of defeat away to Newcastle. So look overall those three selections come together for around a three to one bet builder. And the beauty of the to score or assist mark is that safe subs attached to it. Meaning that if that leg of the bet hasn't won and the player comes off, the player that replaced them carries on that leg of the Bet. And like I mentioned, with backing man united in the Matrons 90 market, that means if they're winning at 90 minutes, Betfair will be paying out regardless what happens in added time.

C (29:46)

Nice. Enjoy the Gold cup this afternoon, James. Thanks for your time today. We'll catch up with you again soon.

F (29:52)

Thanks very much, Matt.

E (29:53)

Cheers. This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betvere.

C (29:59)

Now then, Tuesday night saw goalkeeper Antonin Kinski subbed off at the Metropolitano after 17min with Spurs 3 nil down to Atletico Madrid. They eventually lost 5 2. It's his birthday today. Friday as we record. Tim, it didn't look like it could get much more toxic after Thomas Frank's departure. But Igor Tudor very much saying hold my beer.

E (30:20)

Yeah, I think, I think Adam Kraft and our colleague put on X that spurs are basically like appointment viewing now. Like you just have to watch every, every spurs match. I mean I'm definitely watching every game. It's like it's football sort of equivalent of rubbernecking really. Like you just. You have to slow down and watch it. I mean Tudor's just such a bizarre appointment. I think, I think most of us sort of saw it at the time. It was, it was slightly odd. I mean they needed, you know, a Carrick type figure and obviously Carrick with his spurs links is mentioned as someone they could have had. Whether that was possible or not, I don't know. But they needed someone like Carrick who's going to come in, make some obvious basic changes, prove the mood in the, in the dressing room and sort of take the pressure off the players a little bit. But Tudors did the exact opposite of all those things. I mean, you know, to come in and sort of criticize the players in public and change the formation regularly in only four matches and playing like random players and random teams. And I think Archie Gray has started in three different positions already. And then the Kinski situation, which is just, yeah, dreadful management on numerous levels. Yeah, I can only assume he's still in a job because they're trying to find his replacement. I mean that's how bad he is and or Liverpool away is a really tough match for a new manager to start in. Maybe. I guess Forest at home the week after is where you really want that new manager bounce if it can exist. So yeah, if they lose on Sunday, I'd be, I'd be amazed if he was still in the job.

C (31:41)

Yeah. There's a supporter protest plan for the Forest game as well, isn't there? So maybe they're hoping that Getting a new manager in might dampen that down a little bit. Liverpool wise Critch. Last time spurs went to Anfield was the day that Liverpool clinched the title. They start the weekend in six. They've had a trip to Turkey midweek, but there's no excuse for them not to win this one.

D (32:02)

I don't think so. But then Liverpool aren't very good at the moment. I mean, granted they're not spurs bad, but they're not Liverpool good in the way that we expect them to be. If we compare them to last season when they clinched that title or many of Klopp's past teams, like how you can spend as much money as they did in the summer, like 445 million or something like that and not get worse, although they have got worse, but also so clearly become a team that is in transition. It's fairly damning. You look at Salah, watching him the other night in Galatasaray. I mean, he scored against Wolves last time out in the Premier League, didn't he? That was his first goal since November. I'm not saying that's gone under the radar, but even accounting for afcon, that is astonishing that he's had that run of form this season. And from being a side that was almost optimized and tailored towards getting the best out of him last season, it feels like taking that emphasis away from him, perhaps necessarily given that, you know, he's 33 years old, declining in his powers it seems. But it's left everything else in a bit of a state of flux. And you've seen a huge improvement in the set pieces of late with Liverpool. But then the open play is still a problem, I think in midfield. Graven Birch was brilliant last season. Everybody's team of the year, whatever, but him and Mac Allister to be honest. But that midfield's looking really lightweight now with no real control in number six. He was able to dictate things. That's the bear case for Liverpool. I suppose the bull case is that they're playing Tottenham. Dr. Tottenham will see you now, as all these first fans say. You know, even if you. You're in a not great form, not having the best time of it, you walk into a game against Tottenham at home as well, you'd certainly expect them to get the job done.

C (33:35)

You would have. We still got a title race, I wonder. Well, at the start of the weekend, Arsenal are seven points clear of Man City. They have played a game more than the citizens. So they could go 10 clear when they host Everton at 5:30 on Saturday that before City go to the London Stadium to face west ham for an 8pm kickoff. So City 3 nil down as we mentioned against Real Madrid. They dropped points against Forest last time out in the Premier League. So has this those couple of results critic, have they reinforced the view that this is not the City of old?

D (34:10)

I think the entire season has reinforced that view. It's a different city this season. They can be thrilling, they can collapse. Ultimately though, even all that out, they're just not very consistent. It was quite a bizarre approach from Guardiola on Wednesday night. I thought sort out of character with how we would typically expect City to set up in European ways. Like I can't remember them being so open in the. I don't know, like 375 times I've watched them at the Bernabeu over the last five years. However many times they keep just keen to keep playing Real Madrid in the Champions League. Look, Guardiola's always had this streak in him where he can just do the unexpected and unpredictable. Last night felt sort of in tune with that and in tune with most of the season, really. I'm starting to think that we need to talk about Erling Haaland as well. I'd rather not question him because anytime you do that, he's liable to make you look like a clown, particularly when he's about to face 18th in the league, third bottom. But it's three goals in 11 games in the Premier League going back to Christmas now. And City fans I was seeing on social media the other night were quite happy to see him come off early in that game, even though City was still chasing it, obviously and chasing the tie. So I wonder about that. It's three days out from that return versus Madrid and so I do wonder if that factors into the selection as well. How many minutes will Haaland play? How will Pep set up? It's that point of the season where you're fighting on several different fronts. They're still in the title race, but I think it's going to be a challenge maybe to balance those resources and we might see that in the lineup this weekend.

C (35:36)

Seven in his last three. Haaland against West Ham. So at least he's facing one of his favorite opponents. Arsenal wise, they secured a 1 all draw in labor queues in midweek thanks to Kai Havertz late penalty. They keep getting results even though they're not playing particularly brilliantly. Do they need to improve their performances, Tim, or have they done enough? And City's failings are. Are Going to be enough to mean that they get over the line this time.

E (36:02)

I think the latter. I mean, performances are. They're a. They're a September thing, Matt. You don't. You don't need to be playing well at this time of year. It's all about results. And in Arsenal's favor is that they don't really rely on beautiful, beautiful football. You know, no sort of disrespect, but, you know, they're not about that. They're not about gorgeous football on the eye and open play to win their matches. You know, they rely a lot on set pieces, obviously, and physicality and grinding out results with their. With their. With their really sturdy defense. You know, it's not. It's not pretty. It's not particularly enjoyable to watch, but I. I think. I think it's those attributes that Artesa has instilled in them over quite a number of years now that will get them over the line if they can hold their nerve. That's the big. That is, you know, the big question. Now, it's fine being top in January and February, but once you get deep into March, that's where title winners really come to the fore. You know, Ferguson and Guardiola will tell you that this is when it really matters. They've done it time and again, but Arteta's never done it. No trophies since 2020. So, yeah. Are they now going to go and win 1, 2, 3, 4 trophies? I mean, it's. It's hard to predict because we've never seen them do it before. And that Carabao Cup Final on the horizon next week is really important, I think, in sort of shaping what happens in the next couple of months. I think. I think if Arsenal lose that badly or, you know, in sort of heartbreaking fashion, it asks a lot of them in terms of the sort of confidence and belief and momentum that could carry them a lot further. But, yeah, I think in terms of how they're playing, it's not. It's not a concern for me as long as they're still grinding out those results every week, which. Which they pretty much are doing.

C (37:36)

Same for you, Kreacher. They're going to be champions come May 24.

D (37:40)

I think it's still Arsenal's to lose. I think if any team can lose it also, it's probably Arsenal. But at the same time, I think, yeah, seven points. I think generally what we've seen from Arsenal is they. This season certainly at least, is that they generally, they just about do enough. You know, that's almost Being the mantra under artesta, they'll go 1 nil up on a game and then they'll not take as many risks as they need to in order to see that out. And I think that sort of mentality, that approach, I think that still sustained them over this stretch. I think Tim's right to point out about the League Cup Final next week against City, and then there's obviously that trip to the Etihad in April. I think if there's going to be a wobble, then the seed of it will maybe be planted next weekend, depending on that game. And that adds just a really intriguing layer to this title race and the rest of the season. But I think given City's issues, as we've sort of discussed, you just have to favor Arsenal at this point. They have the advantage and it's felt like even though there's been a wobble here or there, that they. They, like I said, they just about do enough to get things done and I think that will take them over the line ultimately.

C (38:47)

So, City playing West Ham Saturday night. Tim, here's a question that has just leapt off the top of my head and into my mouth. If you gave Nuno the opportunity to relegate one of either spurs or Forest, his two old clubs, which you think he'd choose?

E (39:01)

Well, Wolves aren't down yet, so I think. I think. I don't know why you've left them. Out of the question, to be honest, Matt, I don't know. Yeah, he was treated pretty harshly by spurs and Forrest, but I think spurs, he sort of accepted that it wasn't the job for him, whereas Forrest, he'd obviously, you know, achieved something that the club hadn't in decades and then was discarded very quickly. So, yeah, he's got an axe to grind with Forrest. I'd say he'd send Forrest down. Yeah, sorry.

C (39:29)

He's got an axe to grind. I'm not sure if he was discarded, given that he signed a new contract in the summer and then walked away because he didn't like the person working above him. He's since been sacked anyway. No, it's fine, it's fine. I'm over it. I'm over it. Let me just take a moment to compose myself and we'll come back and go through the rest of the games.

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Right.

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Huh.

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E (41:41)

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C (41:47)

Oh great. We're starting with Forest. Fantastic hosting Fulham on Sunday after losing 1 nil against Midjaland in the first leg of their Europa League last 16. TY producer Jay says eyes on the league, Matt Yeah, if the league's the championship, that's the one I've got my eyes on. Because Forest are heading down. They are three points ahead of Leeds who travel to Palace. This feels like a great opportunity for Leeds to get what would be quite a rare away win, Tim, given that palace were held by Larnica on Thursday. So they had a midweek game and it was peppered with ranker too.

E (42:22)

Yeah, this is a bit of an interesting one in terms of two teams who are not playing very well particular I don't think it's going to be a classic Leeds v Palace by any stretch of the imagination. Both of them could be a really sort of tough watch. But yeah, Jorgenstrand Larsen is probably the sort of man to keep your eye on. Soon as he strangely nearly moved to Leeds in January, there was certainly Interest mooted from Leeds. I think they, they sort of placed a bid which when you look at Dominic Calvert, Lewin being the man to fire them to safety, would have been a pretty interesting dynamic. If they'd spent 30 to 40 million on another striker, I can't imagine they'd have both played up front together, so. So yeah, it's worked out pretty well for him at palace anyway. So far I think he scored like 3 and 8 and you know, despite not scoring for Wolves in the Premier League in the first half of the season, that was unlikely to continue at palace with sort of the better service that he's had and you know, fans have really taken to him. So yeah, palace, after that win at Spurs, I think, I think they're fine now. They're hoping to have Munoz back this week because he's been a real miss for them but probably not the game that Leeds necessarily want because palace just suddenly look a little bit more sturdier, a little bit more confidence and it's lead to a sort of slightly going the opposite way after a tough couple of results.

C (43:29)

Burnley versus Bournemouth. It's a long way between the two stadiums. Is that the most interesting thing about this game? Scott Parker facing his old club. Ditto Jaden Anthony. I'm reaching here. Critch, who knew Bournemouth were unbeaten in nine league games and they've drawn their last three though, so maybe set to miss out on European football. Would it be a successful campaign for the Cherries if they don't get even Conference League?

D (43:53)

Well, Bournemouth are ninth at the moment and I am reliably informed by. I have to tip my hat here to the BBC's Dale Johnson who's the only person in the football media landscape who understands this stuff and who I trust to get this right. But 9th could get Europe if the combination of factors. If you. If fifth place is Champions League, if FA cup winners finish in the top seven and I think if it's one of the Champions League teams wins a European trophy or teams in the top six, so say Liverpool spectacularly collapse to finish eighth in the league and they need to finish eighth but they win the Champions League then ninth is a European place. So actually I think there is something more interesting about this game. I said they were on the beach before but put the deck chairs away, get ready for the big race for ninth for Bournemouth and whoever else is around there. Everton maybe until the end of the season.

C (44:40)

Sunderland versus Brighton is another long distance derby. Three points between them. Tim, who finishes higher? It might be a dangerous Sunderland season. Petering out after that cup set last week.

E (44:51)

Yeah, but potentially. Although yeah, I think a top 10 finish would cap a really good season for them. There's a. Yeah, there is an interesting bunch of sort of. Of teams around that sort of mid table spot. 9th to 14th. There's only three points between them potentially. European football also, what is it like 3 million per position? So you're looking at about 15 million on offer for whoever can sort of finish on top of that Mini league. Yeah. Brighton are sort of normally one of the most interesting teams in the Premier League and a team that I sort of like to keep an eye on and watch. But this year just nothing really. Just very meh sort of floating around. Not much happening. No sort of great sort of stories or standout players necessarily. Yeah, I know they've got a sort of a young developing team but I expected them to kick on a lot more than they have done this season. So it'd be interesting to see what sort of approach they take in the summer because yeah, nothing's happening. They're safe. Unlikely to be in Europe. Yeah, maybe a bit of a sort of a refresh might be needed in the summer at Brighton.

C (45:48)

Chelsea versus Newcastle. Chelsea love a refresh, don't they? This is one of two 5:30 kickoffs on Saturday. Big news breaking out of Stamford Bridge this morning as broken by the Athletics David Ornstein, Keris Jones and Simon Johnson. That Rhys James has signed a new six year contract. Very much the last link between the Abramovich era and the current ownership. I think here. Critch, I'll be at this game. I would imagine that Chelsea will go as strong as possible given that their tie against PSG may well be over. But also the necessity for Champions League football again next season. I just wonder if Newcastle might rotate because they're still in that tie against Barcelona on Wednesday.

D (46:28)

Yeah, maybe. But then what is a strong Chelsea lineup anymore? Is Philip Jorgensen in that lineup? I don't even understand. I don't know anymore what Liam Messini is thinking some of the time. But I think that yeah, possibly Chelsea play Tuesday though, don't they? And then Newcastle are Wednesday so they have an extra day's rest. Possibly slightly less incentive to rotate. But yeah, with their focus on the camp now Newcastle I imagine and really not a lot. Not a great deal to really play for in terms of the league this season. I think you probably have to fancy Chelsea.

C (46:58)

Yeah. Horrible record they've got at Stamford Bridge when they're in the league since 2012. Papi Sisse and All that. Finally, Tim, we're here. Brentford against Wolves. A match that simply reeks of Monday Night Football. Who's got the best touchline clubber out of these two managers? And are you backing Rob Edwards to lead your beloved Wolves to an immediate bounce back should they be relegated?

E (47:20)

Thank you. Who's got the best touchline clubber? I don't really notice those type of things, to be honest. Keith Andrews. Yeah.

C (47:26)

Very smart casual Rob Edwards. Expensive coat.

D (47:29)

He's got the best hair. Keith Andrews. I would say that gone about clubo.

E (47:32)

It's lovely hair. It's very unusual. It's kind of. It's curly but sturdy, you know what I mean?

D (47:37)

Is that how you pronounce that one? Not sure.

E (47:39)

Yeah, no. Rob Edwards. Yeah, he's had a couple of important wins, really. He only sort of won the one match since he was hired in like sort of two or three months. So to. To have these results against Villa and Liverpool, yeah, bodes well for. For him because I think there were question marks over his position if Wolves are gone the rest of the season without winning. But also. Yeah, it's just nice. It's nice, Matt, to have a couple of wins and a bit of belief because if we win seven out of the last eight and continue this run of form, obviously Wolves are the form team in the division, then, yeah, we might, might stay up and relegate Nuno and Forest and anyone else who's. Who's liable to be relegated. So. So yeah, I should be at Brentford on Monday for my first away match of the season. Wolves have yet to win away all season. I think they're the only team in the top four or five divisions to have done that. So I'm hoping to be lucky charm. Cut to narrator. Wolves lost 4, 0 and were relegated.

C (48:33)

Well after that they got West Ham, Leeds and Spurs for the chance to set fire to a couple more seasons as they've done in recent weeks. All right, that is all we've got time for today. Loads of great games to look forward to this weekend. Enjoy them if you are able to. Thanks to Crich and Tim and to producers Jay and John and mostly to you for listening. Enjoy the football and we'll catch up with you again soon.

E (48:55)

You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Jay Beal and John Rogers and the presenter was Matt Davis Adams, the executive producer is A.D. moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic in all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production and proudly sponsored by Betfair.

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