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- [00:02]
Podcast Host
Right now you're probably listening to this podcast on a wireless network. The same wireless network you use for all your swiping, scrolling and athletic FC streaming. But if you're a first responder, you shouldn't have to compete with myvoice to get a clear signal. That's why there's FirstNet, a clear wireless lane built with and just for first responders. So in an emergency, first responders get there first. Because a network that's not just for anyone helps everyone. To learn more, go to firstnet.com or visit an AT&T store for details.
- [00:36]
Ollie
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- [00:58]
Stu James
America's best network based on RootMetric's best overall mobile network performance US second half
- [01:01]
Ollie
2025 four new lines and a limited welcome and autopay.
- [01:04]
Stu James
See verizon.com for details.
- [01:07]
Podcast Host
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- [01:46]
Matt Davis Adams
The Athletic FC welcome to the preview from the Athletic fc. It's the show where we get you set for the weekend's Premier League action. This week we're starting with what many would call the English top flights marquee matchup. It's Manchester United versus Liverpool. On board today we have Stu James. How are you doing Stu?
- [02:11]
Stu James
Yeah, I'm very well, thanks. Matt, how are you?
- [02:13]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, I'm very good, thank you. We've got Oli Kay back on board as well. You okay, Ollie?
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Ollie
Very good, thank you.
- [02:19]
Matt Davis Adams
Excellent. Right, later we'll get into the action elsewhere but first let's get to our feature presentation and after Monday night's win against Brentford United could secure their return to the Champions League with a win against their great rivals, the Red Devils, looking to complete the league double over the just Reds for the first time since the 201516 campaign. Stu. Since Michael Carrick's first Premier League game in charge, United have won more points than any other side, 29 of them. And that's some turnaround for a team who were 14th in the table this time last term.
- [02:54]
Stu James
Yeah, I mean, it's astonishing really. You know, I think they finished 15th last season and at that point you think there's no quick fix for United to get back? It could take years. I know things weren't as bad as that on paper when Amarin was sacked. I think United was sixth at the time and actually they were within touching distance of Champions League football. But let's be honest, there was no sign of them putting together this run of results that we've seen under Carrick. I think they picked up 13 points from the last nine games under Ameren. So that is a long way from the type of form you're talking about, that they're not, you know, the best, the four, the best team form wise in the country. Look, they're going to be playing Champions League football next season, so credit where it's due. There was an interesting stat in Andy Mittens piece this week saying that Carrick's Win rate of 69.2% is better than any manager in United's history who's been in charge for more than 10 games. So, yeah, impressive. I think, you know, when I think about Carrick as a player, there was a real calmness about him on the pitch. I think that's how it looks on the touchline too. He's never flustered, doesn't get too emotional, he's very calm when he talks to the media. And all of that feels like quite a shift from Amren and just what United needed, really. All that negative noise has gone away. I mean, the big question is, is he an elite manager at this moment in time? No. You know, his track record doesn't say that, obviously. And this sample size isn't big enough to claim that. If he's given the job long term, can he be an elite manager? I don't know. I mean, more broadly speaking, I speak from experience of the club I support as well. I'm not a fan of the interim manager, the caretaker who has a great spell getting the job permanently at the end of it. I just don't really like that. I think it's completely different when they take over permanently. That said, Carrick absolutely deserves to be prominent in the conversation when United are thinking about what they do next. And if they don't give him job, they owe him, you know, a debt of gratitude for what he's done, turning this round and getting them in the situation they are now where I was going to say, barring a catastrophic run of results, but they're going to be playing Champions League football next season, let's be honest. So, you know, fair play to Guy.
- [05:02]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, Ollie Stu has just listed just how transformational Michael Carrick's been so far for United. Despite that seemingly still a split in the fan base as to whether he should get the job full time. Do you understand that? Is it, is it maybe the Solskjaer scar tissue that's causing that?
- [05:19]
Ollie
Yeah. Well, it's interesting when you talk about Olegar de Solskjaer and his tenure, I think there's probably a feeling outside of the Manchester United fan base that that appointment didn't work. I think a lot of Manchester United fans will rebut that and say, no, it worked. He got us to a really good point and then it just kind of went sour in the final months. It was a good appointment, I think it was. You know, the appointment did work to some extent, but I think United need to be in a position where they build on this and they try and compete and win the Premier League, which has been so far off their radar, even when they finished second under Mourinho and second under Solskjaer, they were miles, miles off the pace. They were. They were not a top team in Europe by any state. Stretch of the imagination. And I think next season or maybe next couple of years, you look at Manchester City, Pep Guardiola is going to leave sooner rather than later. Mikel Arteta, Arsenal. You know, it feels like they've already been building for, for four years. And if they get over the line this year, yes, they could go on to better things. But, you know, this, this might be the peak years of the Arteta project. Liverpool are a bit hit and miss at the moment. Chelsea needed a hell of a lot of work. So I think there's an opportunity, if United get things right this summer, to be really, really competitive in a way they've, they've not been for, for many years, really. And it's a case really of whether Caric has definitely been the right man for this interim job for the last four months. He's done a brilliant job. Is he. Does that make him automatically the right man to Take it on for the next two years, three years, whatever. Or is somebody like Anthony Arrow, who has a. A bigger sort of more impressive body of work, or Julian Nagelsmann or someone like that, do these people become more attractive? You know, I was reading yesterday that Iraola is in their thoughts and I think it. I think he absolutely should be in their thoughts. It shouldn't be. They shouldn't blindly be thinking, well, Carrick's done a really good job, so Carrick's the man for the next three years. I think they need to look into it really, really carefully, ideally interview someone like Iriola, maybe Marco Silva, Nagelsmann, others, or get real sense of whether these people have bigger, brighter ideas. Study their work, study the data, etc. And really get a clearer view of who is the person to take it forward. I think they're right to have an open mind for as long as possible and sort of cast their net further than just Michael Carrick, which is not at all denigrating the job he's done so far, which has been excellent.
- [07:58]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, whoever is the manager next season, they're going to be able to lean on. Kobbie Mainoo signed a new contract this week. Things can change quickly in football, Stu. We know this. Mainoo asked for a loan, move away in January. Now he's a key part of their push for the Champions League. It turns out he did the right thing in waiting it out because it always looked like he might outlast Ruben Amarim and that's indeed what proved to be the case.
- [08:22]
Stu James
Yeah, and on top of all that, mate, he's got a great chance of going to the World cup too now. You know, it really is amazing how quickly things can change in football on the basis of a new manager. You know that old cliche about manager comes in, everyone's got a clean slate. You sometimes think, well, have they really? But that clearly is the case here. I think the interesting thing with Kobbie Mainoo as well is often in this scenario, when a player comes in from the cold, as we kind of say in journalism speak, they've been a problem behind the scenes, they've been a pain in the backside. You know, there's been stuff going on off the field, which means that's why they weren't playing under the previous manager. That wasn't the situation here at all. Putting it bluntly, Amrun didn't really fancy him and obviously one of the big obstacles here was this system that Amrun was absolutely wedded to. The 3, 4, 3 and that had implications for Kobbie Mainoo because how did you play him, Casemiro and Fernandez in that system? I mean, the way Fernandez was using that system was bonkers to me. But yeah, now instead of Mainoo being the odd man out, he's playing alongside Fernandez and Casemiro and it's working really, really well. The, the three of them are all in, you know, excellent form. I mean, Casmiro is finishing his Man United career in a. An incredible way. Wasn't that long ago we were asking whether his legs had gone, you know, so astonishing really how it can all turn around. And of course all of this, you know, the new contract, it makes total sense for United. We're talking about a lad who's only 21 years old, came through Manchester United's academy. He's got a lot of experience under him already. You know, he was playing at big games in Euro 2024, so. And also added to that, Casemiro's going this summer. United have already got to replace him. Why would they want to replace Mainoo too? So yeah, everything's falling into place really for him, for United. My overriding thoughts on all of this when I look at his form, when I look at that United midfield now, is it just makes it all the more baffling that Amarin persisted in the way he did for so long.
- [10:20]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, Stu mentions that Casemiro is off in the summer so they'll need a replacement. Laurie Whitwell of the Athletic reporting that they're looking at the likes of Carlos Baleba, Elliot Anderson, Shermani and Wharton as well. Any of those fit the bill do you think? Ollie, what kind of profile of midfielder are we talking about here?
- [10:38]
Ollie
Yeah, it's interesting that as Stu describes it, you know, now seems to be a question of Kobbie Mainoo plus one. Whereas know previously it was, it was a, it was a different profile and you, you therefore have to think what is the type of PL player that would, would complement Mayu's skill set best. And Casemiro has, has complemented it, complimented him really well in, in the, in the second half of this season. It's not a partnership that to my mind looked. Ever looked great pre Carrick. So maybe so credit is due to Carrick and, and, and Steve Holland there in terms of making, making that work and getting the structure right around them. But yeah, they're going to miss Casemiro, which is not something I would have said very often during the middle two years of that very, very expensive contract. But he's Been excellent this season and it makes you think do they need somebody who's sort of more of a physical presence to let Mainoo shine alongside him and does that exclude somebody like Adam Wharton who's more of a. He's more of a Michael Carrick type player. Funnily enough Adam Water ba very physical in terms of box to box but is he, is he the kind of sort of sitting presence? I don't know. Ellie Anderson would seem to fit a bill but there's been a bit more noise about Manchester United, Manchester City than Manchester United where Alisson is is concerned. So it's. I, I don't think it's really obvious to say who is the, who is the midfielder you would ideally have alongside Mania. I think probably the answer is a you know, 22 year old Casemiro. A lot of it comes down to how the, the next coach, whether it's Carrick or not sees the team evolving and whether it's going to be a sort of more technical team and more technical midfield and than we've seen at Manchester United for some time. But I feel the midfield is the real key to what they do this summer. I don't think they've had the right kind of midfield really for since Ferguson left. I mean arguably even in the final years of Ferguson even when they had for example Pogba, Herrera, Matic. I've always felt midfield has never been quite right for United and it's looked good lately but they need to find a sort of long term solution now
- [12:50]
Matt Davis Adams
that Casemiro is leaving Liverpool wise They come into this on their longest winning run three of them since their opening five matches of the season. Are we reading much into that Stu? I mean they had the drama at the dick didn't they? But also beat a goal shy Fulham or at least at the time they were and a Palace side thinking of Europe. So have they really turned things around?
- [13:11]
Stu James
I watched that game last Saturday Matt that was a strange match to palace game. I mean yeah if, if you're not a fan of XG put your fingers in your ears now really because I mean Liverpool's XG was 0.91, palace is 2.32. I mean palace had seven shots on target. Liverpool had three and scored with all three of them. It was a weird match. Didn't feel like a 3:1 game put it that way. Freddie Woodman, I mean what a story he is amazing really. You go to a club as third choice and essentially you're there to help with training and you know to stay out there for a bit longer when Mo Salah is practicing his shooting and you end up with the cop singing your name. It's a great tale really. So, yeah, he was outstanding last Saturday and would have kept a clean sheet. But for naughty Daniel Munoz, right. Not in the spirit of the game. Chipping the ball over his head. That was an interesting one. Watching all that saga unfold and kind of brought back memories of Paulo Di Canio many years ago. Leaving all that aside and the nature of the game, for me, some Liverpool fans might disagree, but I just felt all that matters was that Liverpool won the game. You know, they're getting the results that secure in Champions League football. Obviously there's a much bigger discussion about what Liverpool look like going forward, whether Slot is the right man, what they need in the summer. I thought Curtis Jones had a really good game last weekend. I sometimes feel like he's a little bit underused, underappreciated. He was excellent. Liverpool will take encouragement from the sight of Isaac in Florin Wirtz scoring. I mean, who thought that was going to be such a rarity this season? So Isaac Skull was a bit fortunate. Wirtz was a beautiful strike. But yeah, to come back to your point, Matt, I am. I'm not really sold on the idea that Liverpool are back. I think there's a lot of work for Liverpool to do this summer to put together a team. It's really going to challenge again. And it's interesting, Ollie, talking about the United midfield. I think the Liverpool midfield needs work. So do the Ford areas too. You know, when I look at those forward areas at Liverpool and I compare with what I see when I watch Bayern Munich psg. I just think there's the differences night and day, really. So good results lately, but a long way from being the Liverpool I thought they would be at the start of the season. Bloody hell. I tip them to win the league. Yeah, same.
- [15:21]
Matt Davis Adams
Where are you on Arnas Slot's future then, Oli? I mean, he is the reigning defending Premier League champion after all. Do you think he's going to be in the dugout for the first game in next term?
- [15:31]
Ollie
At the moment, I think he is, yeah. All the noises at Liverpool have pointed to that. I think it would take a pretty spectacular collapse in the final weeks of the season to turn the tide the other way. But it's, it's. It's a. It's an interesting one. I mean, going back to the sort of Michael Carrick situation where you say Michael Carrick has been the right person for this Manchester United team in the short term and you then have to question whether it's. Whether he's the right man for the medium long term. Arnes has been an outstanding appointment for Liverpool. Let's. Let's be clear about that. The job he did last season, and I know people would say, oh, he did it, he won it with Jurgen Klopp's team. Well, Jurgen Klopp didn't win it the previous four seasons with that team. So let's give some credit to the guy who took over from an incredible coach in Klopp and took the team to another level last season. This season has been really poor, let's be clear. And there are loads of factors to that which have been mentioned. I don't think they're summer business looks anything like as good with hindsight as it did at the time, I think. The Diogo Jota situation, I think is unquantifiable, but hugely significant. When you, when you talk about Liverpool's loss of, I don't know, loss of purpose, loss of energy at times this season, I think he's. I don't think he was dealt the great greatest hand after winning the title, but I don't think he's played that hand perfectly by any means either. I think. I think there are questions as to whether I. Well, I wouldn't. I wouldn't say this season is his fault at all, but I would say there are lingering questions as to whether he has the solutions and whether. Whether he has the solutions going forward. It reminds me a little of Erik Ten Hag's second season at Manchester United, where obviously they weren't coming down from having won the title the previous season, but they had been good the previous season, much of it, and there's a big drop in form and you just look at a team sometimes you think, well, structurally it doesn't look right. Tactically, it doesn't look right. They're kind of being outrun. They're kind of weird games a lot of the time, which has been the case for Liverpool again this season. Like that palace game last week. I'm always happy to see managers given the benefit of the doubt, but I can understand the concern around that situation and I can understand anyone wondering whether giving a manager a vote of confidence after a bad season or disappointing season would mean that, you know, you end up in a situation in October, November where you're thinking, right, we need to change slot, certainly needs a strong start to next season if he's still in charge, which as I said, I think he will be all right.
- [18:19]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, we've spoken about the managers for both sides. Next we'll talk about who's going to be key on the pitch in this oft feisty fixture.
- [18:29]
Podcast Host
This host city guide on the Athletic is brought to you by the Capital One Venture X Card.
- [18:33]
Ollie
Dallas may be known for its Cowboys,
- [18:35]
Matt Davis Adams
but this great American city is no cow town.
- [18:38]
Stu James
The Big D knows how to throw
- [18:40]
Matt Davis Adams
a party and it knows how to extend hospitality. Nine World cup games will be staged here at the enormous AT&T Stadium, the perfect opportunity for the Big D to put to bed some of the stereotypes that that have endured since J.R. ewing in the 80s.
- [18:56]
Ollie
The food scene here is among the
- [18:58]
Matt Davis Adams
best in the US the clusters of
- [19:00]
Stu James
restaurants serving the food of Vietnam, Laos
- [19:02]
Matt Davis Adams
and Korea sitting alongside taco shops, burger joints and high end steakhouses. The best brisket in the world gets
- [19:11]
Stu James
smoked in North Texas.
- [19:13]
Matt Davis Adams
Expect to get everywhere by car or train. The stadium is actually 20 miles away
- [19:18]
Stu James
from downtown Dallas and in Arlington. And if you really must, you can
- [19:22]
Matt Davis Adams
get yourself a cowboy hat.
- [19:23]
Podcast Host
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- [23:35]
Matt Davis Adams
And we can't talk about United without mentioning Bruno Fernandes. He got his 19th assist of the season against Brentford. Means he's just two away from breaking the long standing Premier League assist record for a single campaign. It's jointly held by Thierry Henry way back in 0203 and Kevin De Bruyne in 2019 20. Stu I wonder how much players care about these milestones. I guess it's player specific, right? Some of them will be really into it, some of them won't be aware of it.
- [24:04]
Stu James
Yeah, spot on there, Matt. I think it absolutely depends on the individual. I mean, Jamie Vardy, for example, did not give a monkeys about stats. He had no interest in them. And if you're interviewing him and mentioning them, he'd get frustrated with you going on about it. I mean, I remember asking him years ago whether he'd given thought to trying to score 100 Premier League goals and he genuinely had no idea how many he was on at that time. You know, other players would be counting everyone in logging it. The only reason he knew when he got to 99 years later was because in his words, everyone kept banging on about it. So that's him. But then you've got the total contrast with someone like Ruud Van Nistelrooy who was obsessed with scoring goals, but not just scoring, but being the top scorer. I mean, Paul Scholes tells the story of when they get on the coach after United games and the first thing that Van Nistroy wanted to know was whether Thierry Henry had scored. You know, and he says if Henry had scored, then Van Nisteloy said nothing all the way home on the bus, you know, so everyone, everyone's different on this. But in terms of Fernandez, I think sometimes I think we make too much of assists. Now maybe that's just me being a bit old school, but with regard to him and this record or the tally that he's on now, I think it's hugely impressive. You know, the very fact that Henry Henry's record, what did you say, 2003, Matt? It goes back that far and nobody's beaten that. Yeah, that says an awful lot. So also allied to that, the fact that he's not exactly playing in a vintage United team. So for him to have, you know, the number of assists he's got this season, it's. It's really, really impressive that. Yeah. And I hope he goes on and does it. You know, I haven't mentioned de Bruyne there. You know, de Bruyne and he. Two of the great Premier League players who will be talked about in years to come still. So for him to be on the verge of breaking their record, brilliant.
- [25:52]
Matt Davis Adams
Be a good achievement, obviously. Ollie, I wonder if also it might put a spotlight on him that maybe he hasn't had in a way that he would have done had United not been such a mess for most of the time that he's been there. He's got to be a candidate for Player of the Year as well, hasn't he?
- [26:06]
Ollie
Oh, I think he's. I think he's got a really good chance of winning Player of the Year, Footballer of the Year, all of those awards. I think you look at Arsenal, who are top of the league, you wouldn't say any of their sort of creative attacking players have sparkled in anything like the same way. Some of them. Not at all, really. You know, you would look at the collect collective of their defence. I think there's a really strong case for Gabriel, for example. I've heard others talk about Declan Rice. There are plays at Man City, you know, who've done very well. Gay and some menu who joined them late. Erling Haaland has scored a huge number of goals, but he's been probably less effective a lot of the time by his. By his standards. Igor Thiago at Brentford or various others. But I don't think it's. It's been a non vintage year in terms of individual performance in the Premier League. If you're looking at a creative attacking player, I think Bruno Fernandes sticks out a mile and for me it would. For me it's between him and Gabriel and I said Gabriel a few weeks ago, but I'm wavering ahead of the Football Writers association deadline, which I think is on Monday, perhaps. So, yeah, he's definitely a candidate, definitely a strong candidate. I think it's been his best season at Manchester United by far, which, given that the first couple of months of it were challenging because he was playing in that strange role under Amarim, I think is really, really impressive.
- [27:28]
Stu James
Do you think, Oli? I often think timing's a big thing with these as well. Is Ren Shirky's End to the season. Does that put him in the mix or do you think he's probably going to get the Young Player of the Year award? You can win both, right? Has anyone won both? I should know.
- [27:44]
Ollie
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think. I think Gareth Bale win both. I think Turkey has been excellent in the title of running. I don't think I would have him as player of the year personally, but. Yeah, that, that time question. But if we talk about Young Player of the Year, would you not. Would you not think Nick O'Reilly?
- [28:01]
Stu James
Yeah, yeah, he'd be absolutely. I mean, he's got a great chance. Yeah, he's been outstanding.
- [28:05]
Ollie
Yeah. Yeah. But it's, It's. It's always interesting how footballers think for these awards. I, I think. I think there can be a. I, I think there could be a lot of group think whether it's. Whether it's fans or journalists or players. A lot of it goes down to that and timing and what's fresh in people's mind. But yeah, Fernandez currently is. I think Fernandez has been sort of the best player in the league over the last few months.
- [28:27]
Matt Davis Adams
Certainly a quick Google tells me that Erling Haaland is the only player to win the Premier League player and Young Player of the Year award in the same season. The PFA awards, Andy Gray, Cristiano Ronaldo and Gareth Bale did both in the same season. Alexander Isaac's not a contender for it this season. He did score his first league goal at Anfield last weekend. I mean, that'll be a big relief for him for Arne Slot and for Graham Potter as well, I guess. Stu, it sort of all eyes on next season for Isak, really.
- [28:58]
Stu James
Yeah. There's no sugar coating it. It's been a hugely disappointing but difficult season, you know, disappointing in terms of how he's played, when he's played, but difficult because of obviously the lengthy time that he had on the sidelines after that really bad injury at Tottenham. So, yeah, it feels like baby steps at the minute. I was amazed that he started the game against psg the second leg, as I think everyone was, you know, and clearly that backfired. Yeah, his goal last weekend. Strange one, really. McAllister's mishit shot comes to him. First touch, jumped up and down the ball, which was understandable because it was a shot he was trying to control and then he kind of mishit the next one. But I don't really think any of that matters. It's just him scoring. Must be a weight off his shoulders, really. And then the big thing obviously, yeah there's the World cup which I guess complicates pre season because I was just going to say he needs a really good preseason, which he obviously didn't have. Given everything that went on with the move from Newcastle to Liverpool and how complicated that was. You know, we judge him on next season really. I've got quite a few mates with Liverpool fans who are really kind of skeptical about that sign in in a way they're not about Florian Wirtz who they think's had a bit of a rough time in terms of how his season's been perceived. But they need those two to you know, hit it off next season and, and then I think they still need to find a solution for, for another player really. I'd be surprised if they don't bring in another really good attacker.
- [30:20]
Matt Davis Adams
Let's do some predictions then. Oli, I've been enjoying your Premier League predictions on the Athletic this season. Sounds like we're in for a thrilling game on Sunday if your prediction for this one's anything to go by.
- [30:32]
Ollie
Yeah, well I, I just was thinking about this game and I, I, my logic was that it'll be hyped up as being, you know, Champions League qualification at stake and so much on the line but it actually feels like a kind of relatively pressure free as far as Liverpool, Manchester United games are concerned. They're both, you know, they're both almost guaranteed Champions League football. It's late in the season the kind of crisis Liverpool has kind of lifted slightly over the last few weeks. Manchester United are enjoying themselves. I think there are two teams that are capable of scoring goals will be happier probably attacking than, than defending. So I went, I went for a five goal thriller which you don't get many of those in this game in this fixture unless it's one of those hammerings that Liverpool have given United a few times over over the last decade. But, but the, the this fixture has generally been in recent years it's been a Liverpool hammering United or it's been a kind of really close, tight attritional game which has been a draw or a, or a United win. But I've gone for a 32 United win in this game. I think things might be quite carefree. I think defences might be vulnerable and there'll be goals. Q Nil. Nil.
- [31:49]
Matt Davis Adams
All right. Last day of school energy I was going to say. Are we thinking it's going to be nil nil then? Steve, what do you reckon goals in this one as well for you well,
- [31:55]
Stu James
it's funny I wasn't aware of Oli's prediction, but I have in my mind. Three. Three actually. So yeah, I see it like Oli is a bit of a, a bit of a free hit for both teams to be honest. Talking of free hit, I played it on fantasy football last week and didn't use it very well at all. But anyway, moving away from that, yeah, I do think it would be an entertaining game, which is obviously going to make Oli and I look fools when when it's the total opposite. But yeah, that's my prediction. 3 All okay.
- [32:21]
Matt Davis Adams
Worth tuning in for if that's the case.
- [32:25]
Podcast Host
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [32:30]
Matt Davis Adams
Right. This is the part of the show where with the help of our partners Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. Of course, we've got James Mackey with us and our focus, James is on the big one this week. We've been talking about it. Manchester United versus Liverpool. Tell me about the the match odds markets for this one, please.
- [32:48]
James Mackey
Yeah, Matt, it's the game I look forward to, but also fear every season this away to Old Trafford, being a Liverpool fan, but the Betfair Sportsbook has the home side, Man United as the 1110 favorite to complete the double over their rivals Liverpool this season. And astonishingly, Matt, this is the first time since 2017 that Man United are set to go favorites against Liverpool. So that just shows where Liverpool have been this season. However, the stats don't really lie up with that for the Red Devils as Manchester United have won just three at their last 19 Premier League games against Liverpool. Liverpool are the 138 outsiders to draw level on points with United in the Premier League. And Liverpool have won three of the last five away league games against Manchester United, actually as many as they had in their previous 18 visits to Old Trafford. The draw is priced at 2310 on Sunday and the last time these two teams played out of stamina was back in what, 20, 24 five games ago at Old Trafford where a late Mo Salah penalty saw it finish two two.
- [33:46]
Matt Davis Adams
All right. And in terms of our bet builder, we've been talking about Bruno Fernandes, Mr. Assista and Alexander Isak on the show and they both feature.
- [33:54]
James Mackey
They do both feature. It's hard not to put them in with Isaac scoring and obviously what Bruno Fernandes is doing this season. So this week we're going for three selections as we usually do in the bet building. We'll start with Man United's main man, Bruno Fernandes. He's created 114 chances this season, 53 more than any other player, which is just astonishing in a United team that hasn't been over the top. Great. So for him to either score assist in the game, he's priced at 5 to 6 like it's a short price, but he's been doing it week in, week out, so hopefully for the bet he can do it again this weekend for Liverpool. Alexander Isaac's next Premier League appearance will actually be his hundredth in the competition and he's looking to score in successive league appearances for Liverpool for the very first time. I'm hoping from a Liverpool fan's perspective, last week's goal at home to palace is the spark that really kicks him on. Now a Liverpool jersey. He's 8 to 5 to score any time, so he's going to go in there and finally to round off the bet builder, I'm going to go for Luke Shaw to be carded in the game any time. That's around six to four at the moment with the United defender. Just notorious for picking up cards, isn't in recently, he's picked up three cards in his last six games, so running at a 50 strike rate during that period. So overall map, those three selections come together for around eight or nine to one. And the beauty of the markets discussed in the bet is that they all have say sub attached to it, meaning that if that leg of the bet hasn't won and the player comes off, the player that replaced them carries on that leg of the bet.
- [35:17]
Matt Davis Adams
Tremendous. We've had some success with these so far this season, so let's hope we do again this weekend. James, appreciate your time as ever. We'll catch up with you soon.
- [35:26]
Podcast Host
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [35:30]
Matt Davis Adams
Right, let's move on to a big one at both ends of the table. It's Aston Villa against Tottenham Hotspur under the lights at 7 o' clock on a Sunday. What is this, lockdown football? Spurs got their first league win of 2026 against Wolves last weekend. Didn't count for much with West Ham also picking up three points. So spurs stay two points from safety. Stu, how would those spurs players have felt coming into the dressing room to see that Callum Wilson had got a 90 plus winner for West Ham?
- [35:58]
Stu James
Yeah, I mean, first things first that kickoff time. I don't know how to handle that at home here with the people in my house who don't like football. I don't know if it's best to flag that up early now, Friday, or leave it to the time, but I can already hear them saying, more football. Why is football on now? It's never on at this time on a Sunday evening. Anyway, to answer your question, Matt, I know that Wilson, I know the Tottenham win in the end doesn't. It doesn't count for much in terms of they didn't close the gap, but I still thought it was a huge result for them. You know, they won a Premier League game and I don't say that in a joking, mocking way. They hadn't won a Premier League game since December. And if they'd gone to Wolves and not managed to win, which was on the cards for a long time, then that's it, you know, they're done. A good pal of mine is a Spurs fan. He went there with his mate, with his son and he said, and he said spurs were poor. You know, he didn't think they played particularly well at all. But again, I don't think that matters really, in a way, they just had to find a way to win that match. That said, I'm not sure they'll get away with going to Villa and playing really poorly and getting a result. Yeah, I mean, you know, the pressure's on them and West Ham play first right on Saturday. So, you know, if West Ham were to win that game, which I think is a tough game at Brentford, I know Brentford's been a bit erratic lately. Then what, five point lead. That really piles the pressure on spurs then. So funny old weekend, wasn't it, really? With everyone at the bottom sort of tending to all the ones who were scrapping for survival, all getting really good results.
- [37:28]
Ollie
I think it's going to be interesting how Unai Emery approaches this because they've got the second leg against Forest on Thursday, though they're one nil down from the first leg. Anana limped off during. During Thursday's game. So I think in an ideal world, wouldn't you rest players for this? If you were Unai Emery and they are, they are eight points clear of, of. Of sixth place. So they. They've certainly got one foot in next season's Champions League. I'd be fascinated to look back and see how he approached these situations when he was at Sevilla, for example, would he be the type who would almost write off the rest of the league campaign, or at least certain matches, in order to make sure his players are right for a big European tie? Even if he doesn't rest players, Emery, that game at Forest on Thursday night will have taken A lot out of them and they might sort of subconsciously have an eye on the second leg. So, yeah, I feel that play into spurs hands lately. I don't think very much has played into spurs hands this season. Yeah, that. That might be fortuitous timing.
- [38:34]
Matt Davis Adams
All right. Well, as a Forest fan, that worries me greatly. It wasn't all good news for spurs last week. Xavi Simon suffering a season and World cup ending injury and Dom Solanke going off too. Good news about the Peppa Pig collab though, I guess. You mentioned West Ham there, Stu. It feels like a kind of fixture for them. I mean, they're going to Brentford, aren't they? Should we just settle on a one all draw in this game? 22 points from the last 13 Premier League games for the Hammers. It feels like them and Forest and maybe to a lesser extent Leeds have got the momentum that spurs have desperately been struggling to find.
- [39:10]
Stu James
Yeah, it does. Got to say, West Ham has surprised me. I'd written them off, you know, a few months ago. I thought they were doomed. It's been such a strange Premier League season, this. So many teams seem to have had almost seasons within seasons. And the nature of the Premier League itself, it's just so congested in the middle. You know, I was looking at Everton and thinking, you know, well, they've had a couple of bad results or disappointing results. They're 11th but they're only three points off sixth. Yeah, I mean, and we're back, we've got this weird scenario which suddenly 40 points actually is. It is meaningful when we say you need to get to 40 points to survive. Well, to the point that almost that might not be enough. You know, the last time a team went down, obviously with 40 points plus was West Ham in 2003. And you know, for years that kind of target threshold, call it what you want, has been pretty relevant really. And I think that before that the only two occasions were 97 and 98. So that kind of highlights what a weird Premier League season this has been. It's funny, last Friday, Matt, I've been interested in your take on this because I was coming back from some football training with the kids I coach and then I looked at the Forest score thinking it'd probably be Neil nil or 1 nil or something. And it was 4 nil. And I was like, what the hell's going on here? And then I looked at the Forest celebrations at the end, which I could totally understand because if I was a Forest fan coming away from that game at Sunderland, I'd be thinking, that's it done, we're safe. And then less than 24 hours later, Forest and, sorry, West Ham and Spurs have both gone and got late winners. And it's as you were essentially at the bottom. It is as you were. But I'm also thinking, I think what you said at the top, it feels like it's between Tottenham and West Ham now in my eyes. And logically looking at that type of form you're talking about with West Ham there, you know, they do have momentum. I think they've got slightly trickier games. I actually think it's really important they get something at Brentford. It's Arsenal the week after. I'm not discounting the possibility of them getting something against Arsenal, but I think it's important they get a result there just to keep a little bit more pressure on spurs, who, as we said, play the following day. But one one feels like a safe prediction. Matt.
- [41:15]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, it was slightly disappointed from a Forest perspective last week, but I mean, nine unbeaten and a lot of talk about Forest has been that they've got the most difficult run in. I think you can, you can flip that round now. Chelsea away is nowhere near as difficult as you would have expected it to have been earlier in the season. Newcastle at home. Ditto Man United away. They'll already have qualified for the Champions League. Just can't leave it to Bournemouth on the last day because Forest never ever beat Bournemouth. They did though, Ollie beat Brentford on the first day of the season. You sat down with with Keith Andrews recently. What a remarkable transformation he's undergone. You think back to that first game at the City Ground. He obviously was the set piece coach last season. They concede from a corner five minutes into his first game as manager and you think, where's this going? I mean, he's. He's a candidate for manager of the Year. We've spoken about player of the year.
- [42:05]
Stu James
But.
- [42:05]
Matt Davis Adams
But how did you find him?
- [42:07]
Ollie
Impressive. Good talker, good. Good communicator. Good people person. I saw him, you know, at a community, community events that Brentford were holding and the way he deals with people, not just journalists, but the people who were attending this community event and homeless people and people with dementia. He had a really lovely way with people. I think that's such an important thing with management and being able to sort of deal with different people in different ways and show this kind of human touch. I think he's very good at that. And he's a really intelligent guy, perceptive guy. He's done a remarkable job and I think there's this sense that among some because there's always skepticism and people thinking, well, okay, but Brentford have shown and Thomas Frank has shown that it's all about the Brentford setup. So let's not get carried away with what Keith Andrews has done. Let's not get carried away with Thomas Frank undoubtedly benefited from a really good setup and Andrews will say the same. But you know, the setup is something we all know about. But I don't think anybody should assume that. It's just easy to walk in at Brentford and go set peace coach to head coach and make it work like that. Especially when you look back to last summer. Mark Flecken had left for Leverkusen, Norgaard had left for Arsenal, Wissa to Newcastle, Burmo to Manchester United. So that's four of their best players leaving to bigger clubs. I can't remember too many people predicting Brentford to finish in the top half or be in contention for Europe. I certainly can't. You know, I think a lot of people were predicting Brentford to go down, so what they've done has been really, really impressive. And yeah, I thought it was a really interesting interview. I think he does deserve to be in that manager of the year conversation because I think the level there has probably been more exciting impressive in some ways than the player of the year conversation.
- [44:09]
Podcast Host
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- [47:39]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, time to talk. Top of the table. Arsenal squeezed past Newcastle last weekend. Manchester City, meanwhile, were busy reaching their annual FA cup final. The result means that The Gunners are three points clear at the summit. They've played a game more. They got Fulham at home on Saturday. Stu. It's just days after that feisty draw with that. Let's go, Madrid in the first leg of the Champions League semi final. It's not easy, is it, for Mikel Arteta and indeed his players to balance going the distance in both competitions, not least because they don't rotate very much. There's got to be some tired minds and bodies in. In Arsenal colours.
- [48:16]
Stu James
Yeah, that feisty draw where a player stood on a crest right in front the tunnel that he had to walk down anyway. Yeah, that squad rotation. It's interesting because as I reflect now on one of many things I've got wrong this season, I think I. I've said a few times, Matt, that well, I stand. But Arsenal have got incredible squad depth, you know, across every position, really. But I think one thing now I reflect on and think I overlooked. I just look at the forward line and I don't think they have enough elite players in those positions. Sorry to come back to PSG and Bayern for what feels like the third or fourth time, but, you know, I looked at that Arsenal forward line against Atletico and yeah, Madueke, Martinelli, Yokerez, obviously Saka's now coming back, so that's good timing. But I think it's really difficult, the balancing act that Arsenal and Arteta have now and actually, I think they've just got. I know it's boring, but just got to prioritize the next game, you know, given what at stake. This is like the Premier League and. Or the Champions League. He has to go with his strongest team in each game, you know, if they're fit. It's not like City playing Southampton. I don't mean this disrespectfully in the FA cup semi final last weekend, where you can make changes. There's no way that Arteta can do, in my mind, anything other than put out his best team, you know, which is a worry for some players, people like Rice and Zubamendi, who've played so much football, and they get to the point of exhaustion and the game itself. Arsenal just have to win. I don't think it's about trying to rack up goals. It's not about goal difference right now. And this was my feeling against Newcastle last weekend too, which was, you know, I'm not an Arsenal fan, but it was quite an uncomfortable watch from an Arsenal perspective, as lots of games tend to be Arsenal. Now they just have to find a way to Beat Newcastle and that goes for Fulham too. And if they do beat Fulham, it's 1 nil, 2, 1, 3 2. Forget the goal difference. The pressure just shifts to the Manchester City players. Then you know they're six points behind. They know they have to win. They know there's no margin for error. That would be my concern that they'll, they'll be knackered by the time they play Athletico on Tuesday. But yeah, forget that game for now. It is just all about beating Fulham and Fulham.
- [50:25]
Matt Davis Adams
Historically, Ollie is one of their favorite fixtures at home. Arsenal have Never lost in 32 home league games against them. It's the most any side has faced another without defeat in English football league history. That's a nice stat, but it doesn't mean much in 2026, does it? I mean it's the sort of thing that supporters can look at and maybe take a crumb of comfort from. But I don't think Mikel Arteta or any of his team are going to be reeling that one off in the dressing room at 10 to 3 on Saturday. No, no, 20 past 5 on Saturdays
- [50:55]
Ollie
would be ex indeed. Yeah, it would be a, it'll be a long, be a long team talk if it was, if it began it, if it began at 10 to 3 it would but, but that, you know, enables you to bring in props like light bulbs and, and, and, and, and whatever else. I just think, yeah, whoever Arsenal play at the moment, it is going to be stressful. It's going to be an ordeal. I think Stu's word is spot on. Funny enough. I, I, I quite enjoyed their performance away to Atletico Madrid the other night. I thought they were quite, quite impressive. Played with a bit more, I don't know, freedom in the recent Premier League games which just everything feels like a slog. I'm, I'm going, going to the Emirates on Saturday on for that game for the Athletic and I'm expecting it to be a nervous, anxious, slog ordeal. All of those words. And yeah, I think it's all going to be about Arsenal trying to get over the line. I suspect they will. But Fulham more difficult opponent than they did a few weeks ago, frankly.
- [52:00]
Matt Davis Adams
I wonder if that's win the Arsenal dog in the background just chipping in. Mikel Arteta's sent him around. You wouldn't put it past him, would you? Lots of tension at Arsenal it seems. Not the same, I don't think for Manchester City there at Everton on Monday night. Even though it looks on paper as though their fixtures are maybe a little Tougher, Stu. There's a difference in the approach, isn't there? It appears City kind of carefree, having been here, done it before and maybe as having been the back markers, less pressure on them. And that seems to be playing into their favor at the moment.
- [52:35]
Stu James
Yeah, to an extent. I think as the neutral. It's hard not to think of Manchester City's experience in these situations, whether that's players or the manager Guardiola. They've obviously got momentum, they've reeled Arsenal in, they beat them at the Etihad. So all of that, you know, recently. So all that comes into your, into your thinking to counter that. I didn't think they were that great against Burnley. They obviously made quite hard work of being Southampton in the semi final and I think they've. They've slipped up on enough occasions this season, Matt, to make you think it's not a formality that they win the remainder of these games in the way that we might have thought that in the past. You know, I touched on Everton earlier on. They'll be desperate for a result. They've lost the last two. And the nature of the Premier League as we discussed is such that, you know, if they have a strong finish, they could find themselves playing European football next season. So there's plenty of motivation for those teams in mid table who we might have said in the past, oh, they've got nothing to play for. They're on the beach. That, you know, that old sort of thing. It's not like that now. I think the game I sort of circle on City's running is.
- [53:37]
Matt Davis Adams
Is.
- [53:37]
Stu James
Is Bournemouth away. For me, that's their toughest game. They lost their last season and it's also the last of their three matches in seven days. You know, which City aren't happy about that schedule. And so, yeah, that for me is the one that looks the trickiest. But you know, as we've seen in the past, it doesn't always pan out like this. There might be a surprise result somewhere along the way. It could be Arsenal slipping up against Fulham. It might be, you know, City at Everton. But yeah, fascinating to see how it will all pan out away from the title race.
- [54:08]
Matt Davis Adams
Loads going on in the race for European qualification in whatever form or fashion that might come. Only four points separating Brighton in sixth and Sunderland in 12th. Brighton wise, they've had over a week's rest since their three nil hammering of Chelsea. That marked a sixth win in their last eight Premier League games. Ollie, they play a Newcastle side who on the slide. They've lost their last four. They're in 14th. Eddie Howe this morning as we record saying he retains the faith of the higher ups but it looks as though his time there might be coming to an end and in a fairly disappointing way.
- [54:44]
Ollie
Yeah. The impression I get from Newcastle is that there is going to be. There are going to be conversations at the end of the season and see where everywhere everyone thinks they're up to and everyone feels the direction it's going. I think it's not a certainty by any means that Eddie Howe stays. It's not a certainty by any means that he goes. I think what's interesting, you know, Newcastle fans haven't turned on Eddie Howe in any way. I'm sure. Look, I'm sure you could point me to some posts on social media. But generally there is a real gratitude for the job that he has that he has done since he arrived in. What was it, late 2021 with a team bottom or second bottom of the league. And they'd been drifting for years. Obviously there's been big expenditure under this ownership. But I think what's been really more and more apparent as the years have gone on under this ownership is that, you know, there hasn't been a great structural or executive improvement. There's not been like a kind of great huge plan behind the scenes. It's where they've been impressive is Eddie Howe and his players. People would look at the Newcastle vision and feel that it's been a triumph of strategy or vision how has done a brilliant job there. It just feels like this season has been sort of scuppered almost from the start or from the moment when Isaac made his intentions clear last summer and they didn't respond well to that in terms of being able to land the right targets and so on. And this season's been a mess. I think they've struggled with the two games a week while they were in the Champions League but they've also struggled with one game a week since they've been out of the Champions League. So I think whichever way ends up. And I hope Harry's still in charge there next season but. But if his time is up, I think he will. He will leave with enormous gratitude from. From Newcastle's fans for. For what he's done there. And I think it's. I think that's only right.
- [56:36]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, absolutely. Well, the final side currently occupying a European place at Bournemouth. Unbeaten in their last 14 in the league. The best such run currently in the division. An Stu they've got Crystal palace on Sunday coming to the Vitality Stadium. I mean that's the ideal fixture, isn't it this weekend. Palace at home gearing up for the second leg of their own Conference League semi final next week. A good opportunity to get another three points on the board and maybe for Anthony Iriola to leave having put European football on the table for Bournemouth for the first time.
- [57:10]
Stu James
Yeah, it is a nice fixture in it. You think of palace, they must just be all in obviously on the Conference League now. So. Yes, exactly the kind of game you want. Yeah, it'd be a great story if Bournemouth ended up getting into Europe. It's funny when you look back to his appointment in the kind of some of the noise around that at the time and also he had a difficult start. It's easy to forget that I think he failed to win any of his first nine games. And you know, people are questioning what's Bournemouth done here? He made a terrible error of judgment and actually just needed time to implement his style of play. I'm interested in hearing players talk about that later on. And you know, Solanke, I remember speaking about it and saying they had to get used to the patterns in terms of how they pressed and working together. And that's the thing, it's not just the results, it's the style of play. Aggressive front footed, pressing fast counter attacks and yeah, he's going to have a list of clubs after him this summer. Oli mentioned Man United at the start which to me is totally understandable. I think they should be speaking to him. Just been talking about Eddie Howe at Newcastle. Like Oli, I hope Eddie Howe stays on. If there is a change there, you'd imagine he'd be prominent in their thoughts. Chelsea too. I mentioned that to my hairdresser this week actually. We were discussing him, Chelsea and hairdressers. That's not a good conversation to go down, is it? That really given team leaks and all of that and his disappointment straight away when we were discussing Chelsea. Oh, don't let him go there in the sort of sense of what's happened to other people, managers I guess Potter comes to mind when they've ended up going there. But yeah, he's done a great job. And the other thing, I've never, I've not, you know, sat down and done a one to one interview with him but it just strikes me as a thoroughly decent guy too. The sort of person you want to see. Well, I think he always conducts himself well and his team's good. Fun to watch. One of my most enjoyable games this season I think would be that crazy 44 that Manu Bournemouth game. Yeah, a shame for Bournemouth that he's moving on, but he leaves a fantastic legacy and he may well leave them, you know, with European football to look forward to next season. So there we go. After all that, it's clearly going to be a Palace 1 nil win on Sunday, isn't it?
- [59:10]
Matt Davis Adams
We shall see some brilliant games this weekend. So much at stake all across the Premier League table. That's where we're going to leave things for today, though. My thanks to Oli Antistu and producers Mike and John, but mostly to you for listening. Enjoy the weekend's games and we'll catch up with you soon.
- [59:27]
Podcast Host
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Jay Beal and John Rogers and the presenter was Matt Davis Adams. The executive producer is AD Moorhead to listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic in all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production and proudly sponsored by betf.
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Ollie
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