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- [00:00]
Matt Davis Adams
Hi, it's Matt here from P1 with Matt and Tommy. And this episode is sponsored by ebay. Ever tried to buy a car online and end up in a parking lot with a stranger, a paper title and some blind trust? With secure Purchase on ebay, you don't have to. Secure purchase means sellers and titles are verified, financing covered, registration handled, delivery. Get your ride plates and paperwork shipped to you so you can skip the DMV and sketchy meetups. Buy your next car on ebay.
- [00:28]
Alex Barker
Ebay.
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Matt Davis Adams
Things people love. Secure Purchase is powered by Caramel Dealer Services LLC, an eBay subsidiary.
- [00:38]
Karl Anker
Amazon One Medical presents painful Thoughts I've.
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Been on hold to make a doctor's appointment for 23 minutes now. The automated voice has told me 47 times that my call is very important to them. Hmm, I'm starting to think that they don't think my call is important at all.
- [00:58]
Karl Anker
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Karl Anker
To make an appointment. Amazon One Medical Healthcare just got less painful.
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Advertiser/Promotional Voice
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- [01:11]
Karl Anker
What's going on?
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Advertiser/Promotional Voice
We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so easy. Too easy.
- [01:17]
Karl Anker
Think something's up?
- [01:18]
Advertiser/Promotional Voice
You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price, and it got delivered the next day.
- [01:26]
Karl Anker
It sounds like Carvana just makes it.
- [01:28]
Advertiser/Promotional Voice
Easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed.
- [01:33]
Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.
- [01:42]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
The Athletic FC welcome to the preview from the Athletic fc. It's the show where we get you set for the weekends Premier League action. This week we're looking ahead to the Manchester Derby. And joining me today we have Karl Anker. How you doing, Carl?
- [02:02]
Karl Anker
I'm doing well, thanks. How are you?
- [02:04]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Yeah, I can't complain. Thank you. Alex Barker's back with us too. You okay, Alex?
- [02:07]
Alex Barker
I am doing good, thank you very much. I'm good to be back.
- [02:10]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Superb. We are glad to have you here. All right then, we are going to get into some of the other big matchups of match week 22 as well. But first let's get to our feature presentation. So Michael Carrick is back at Old Trafford as the latest interim manager, replacing interim interim manager Darren Fletcher. Carrick last hit the wheel in 2021, acting as caretaker, which is wildly different to being an interim. He replaced Oleg and Solskjaer then whilst the club looked for, you guessed it, an interim manager. That was Ralf Rangnick, but they weren't really interim. Carl, what's been the reaction in Manchester to Carrick's appointment?
- [02:47]
Karl Anker
I'd say there is a section of the fan base that is tentatively excited about Carrick. Some are disappointed that it's not ole Gunnar Solskjaer as the new interim, while others are saying this is all just a big distraction. Glazer and the Ineos ownership group have to leave and we need to prime for some form of protest. So I believe the fan group, the 1958 want to have a march onto Old Trafford ahead of the Fulham game, which I thought was interesting in that they were going to skip this home game, which to my mind you would get more eyeballs if you were to protest before the Derby. However, you know, organizing people for a munch takes some time. So here we go. So I expect the Derby will have a unifying effect in that everyone wants to come together for a common foe. But not all is well in the state of Mancunia.
- [03:37]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Was he the best available option? Carrick? I mean, there is a theory employed by other clubs that involves not living relentlessly in the past.
- [03:45]
Karl Anker
It's a bold strategy. I'm not sure I want to do that. What we do know is when Reuben Amren was removed, it was. The plan was to have Darren Fletcher for two to three games. So for my own sanity I call him Darren Fletcher, a caretaker manager and Michael Carrick the interim. Because I can't be bright Interim interim in all my copy. And the idea was to go get someone until the end of the season. We now know there was a three person shortlist for that. Interim manager. Michael Carrick, Oligon Associ and Rude Van Nisteloy. Ruud Van Nisteloy was, we can call him, a relative outsider outside track for that race. And it seems like Jason Wilcox, the sporting director, believed Carrick was the number one choice. And also Sir Alex Ferguson gave a thumbs up in regards to Carrick there too. So the criteria that was set out by Wilcox and other decision makers was they wanted to get in someone who would immediately command respect from staff around the training ground at the club from day one. Someone who'd be good talking to media, someone who'd be good at healing disparate elements of a dressing room and a fan base. And for that reason, when you ask Manchester United people what's the quickest way to get everyone on board, the answer tends to be press the big button that says nostalgia.
- [04:51]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Rude Van Nistelrooy. Good grief. Mark Rishy's got an excellent Piece up on the Athletic. Now detailing Carrick's return, he mentions how when he took charge of Middlesbrough, he gave the club an immediate identity. Alex, that's something that United have lacked in, in recent years. Does Carrick have the players at his disposal to mould into his preferred system? How's he going to get them motivated for, for the rest of the campaign? Just the, just the Premier League to play for. I guess the carrot of Champions League football is still dangling.
- [05:22]
Alex Barker
Yeah, it's going to be quite tricky I think because I feel like Manchester United fans must already be speaking about it. But I've just been like thinking about it to myself the last couple of weeks or so and it's going to be the hangover of Ruben Ambroom. I think we really saw in their fixture against Brighton how hamstrung you are to a back three, ironically enough, rather than a back four. It was most evident with the wingers. Fletcher having to push his fullbacks forward to provide width and suddenly Manchester United were very open at the back. So getting more out of this team than Amram did, I think is going to be very, very tricky given the personnel he's got. Is Patrick Dorger going to play as a left back rather than a left wing back? Can Mateus Guna play as a left winger who stays wider a bit more than. More than number 10? And even just like changes like that is, it's going to take some getting used to when you've been so relentlessly pushing for a back three the last 14 months or so. So I think he'll have his work cut out. It won't just be as simple as slotting the two players in and saying.
- [06:25]
Karl Anker
Come on, this is, this is, this is, this is mean, this is mean. I think, I think you are correct in that there is a problem with width, but I don't think that's necessarily to do with changing from the back three to the back four, but more to do with the fact that they sold. They're natural wingers. You're absolutely correct in that Kunya now is an awkward fit in that he is more of an interior. He wants to live in the half spaces. He's not sort of that left wing who wants to get chalk on their boots. You can alleviate that if you have a left back or left sided defender who does want to get chalk on their boots. And I think Daugu is of an ambiguous quality but he certainly listens to instructions and can do that. I think he's got a nice kick rush game to him. And he's definitely figured out how to loop it to the back post. So that's not immediately distressing. The fact that it's only 17 matches and there are some gaps in there means that hopefully Luke Shaw's body can cope with it. So those things are there. One of the issues is also whether you're playing with a back three or playing with a back four. You're Manchester United and therefore your weaknesses are known to everyone. And I was at the Brighton game and it was very, very clear. Herzler just went, let's get our wingers to push really high up to put those fullbacks back backwards and then we'll see where they'll find the width from elsewhere. And these are the problems in that. Whether you play with the back three or you play with the back four, the Manchester United squad is quite underpowered. It is Europa League quality to my mind. The problem now is Jason Wilcox made it very clear to Michael Carrick and Darren Fletcher has made it very clear to everyone that the objective for this club right now is to qualify for the Champions League. So Carrick's going to have to be really, really good. And one of these attacking players is going to need to get a purple patch in there somewhere for United to get where they want to be.
- [08:05]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Tough. First two games from Carl, obviously this one, and then away to Arsenal as the second one. They have ground to make up in the top four race. You could frame that as a nightmare start, I suppose, or you could say, well, actually that's better than having a game against Burnley and a game against Brighton at home, neither of which you win. I mean, nobody's expecting United to win either of these games particularly, are they?
- [08:27]
Sam Lee
No.
- [08:28]
Karl Anker
One sensible. But this is a derby. You're not supposed to be sensible. When you. When it's a derby, expectation goes out the window. The form book goes out the window. I'm sure if I spoke to the data people, the stats people, the bookmakers about this, City would be the favorites and Arse will be the favorites next week. However, when you're Manchester United and you have the historical aggro with City and with Arsenal, okay, you might not expect to win, but the defeat will be devastating. Carrick can lose, but you need to have a positive performance. And if he wins, the performance doesn't really matter if he scabs one. So if we use how Michael Carrick played against Middlesbrough blueprint, that is a 4, 2, 3, 1. One fullback gets really, really far forward, the other fullback drops and tucks in to create a back three and then they defend in a compact four, four, two mid block. They use possession quite a bit and some people will think that's sterile possession. I think sometimes Middlesbrough will try and bait the press. Very nice, noble ideas. However, historically when Manchester United play City and Manchester United play Arsenal, they don't do that. What they do is they hunker down and counterattack rather than pass slowly and try and bait. So I'll be really interested to see if Michael Carrick sets his team up in a Michael Carrick way or if he just goes, oh, Mourinho and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and Erik Ten Hag got victories doing this one. Let's try it this way.
- [09:43]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
As for Manchester City, they ran out two nil winners at St. James park in the Carabao cup semi final first leg against Newcastle the Athletic Sam Lee was at Pep Guardiola's press conference this morning. Let's check in with him for the City perspective.
- [09:56]
Sam Lee
Obviously the major story around City at the moment is signing Marghe, but. But Pep Guardiola had nothing to say about that. Literally nothing to say. That's what he said and we moved on. So the press conference was more about how difficult it's going to be facing Manchester United because Michael Carrick's the manager. You know, there's no point watching what they did under Amorim because that's no longer relevant. You can't really watch what Carrick did at Middlesbrough because it's a completely different squad, different players. So that's going to be an interesting little challenge for Guardiola and City tomorrow to read what's happening and try to adjust on the go. But they should should be okay with that. Otherwise wasn't an awful lot going on in the press conference that normally never is in the first bit. Guardiola likes to avoid any major talking points. Recently it's been quite grumpy, especially with the injury situation making things look quite difficult. Three draws in a row. Not good for the for the old title race. But after scoring 10 against Sector 2 at the weekend and a big win at Newcastle in the week, the mood suddenly is pretty good. The three draws did put a dent in things, but Guardiola always felt that the team were progressing. They're always in the right place. That does seem to have got back on track and especially if they do sign Marque as expected, then that's going to help too. But even without that, things look pretty good. And that is the mood heading into the Derby.
- [11:11]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Well, agreeing a deal for Gay Big news for Pep Guardiola and Manchester City. He'll be looking to get back to winning ways in the Premier League and put some pressure on on the leaders Arsenal. Alex, that performance in midweek is in. James is much closer to what Pep Guardiola has been looking for from his side in the league of late. Should give him a little boost going into this one.
- [11:31]
Alex Barker
Yeah. I mean, considering the recent troubles in the league they had, obviously one of that really good run. It feels like they've dropped off a touch recently. It'll definitely give him confidence. And obviously Semenu arriving has clearly made a big impact. It's giving him another option. I do think that Guardio will look at that performance and see there are ways to improve in that. City did give away chances and as good as Semenya has been, there were moments where he clearly didn't get the press. He was being very aggressive when others weren't and that was leading to issues further back. So I think Guardio will be happy that his team have won, but I'm not certain this is, you know, a performance to say everything's back to normal for Manchester City. They could. They still look a bit vulnerable.
- [12:11]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Alex mentioned Semenya there. Carl, on the face of it, slotted in pretty well, albeit maybe still a few things to learn in terms of the system. Did you expect him to have such an impact in terms of his goal return?
- [12:23]
Karl Anker
Yeah, yeah. I'm very high on Semenya. And that's not just because we're both Ghanaian. When it looked like he was going to sign for Manchester United, a piece on the Athletic about what he might offer Ruben Amrin to Manchester United. And there was just a point where I was watching that was maybe 20 minutes deep, watching all these footage and shots and all the very nice highlights from this season. And I just went, oh, this is Saudi Armani at Southampton. And he reminds me of Saudi Armani at Southampton so much in that he's. Please forgive me for this comparison. I'm trying to make Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares. So Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares, he goes into a failing restaurant and one of the very obvious things that he does to all these failing restaurants is he goes, your menu is too big. Let's make your menu smaller. You're trying to do too many things at once and you're not really impressing anyone else. You only really need to have seven items on your menu, one of which.
- [13:11]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Is always a burger.
- [13:12]
James Mackey
Yes.
- [13:12]
Karl Anker
Or never make Gordon scallops because they're always going to be off. And he's always going to be able to tell anyway. But one thing I am increasingly putting in the back of my mind when I'm looking at wingers or wide forwards is do they have the too big menu where they're trying to do too many things and delivering five out of ten or six out of tens? Or do they have the short, concise Gordon Ramsay made menu where, yes, okay, they can do loads of skill moves, but they've understood in the Premier League, when you have so much time on the ball, you don't need to do fancy stuff, you just need to go boom, boom and move. And that was the thing I saw at Semenya in that, oh, yeah, we don't need to do the Gordon Ramsay thing. Pep Guardiola will not need to do the Gordon Ramsay thing with you. You are already a wide player of maximal efficiency and I think that is why he's going to be so good for City for the remainder of the season. And then when the Pep purification occurs and he learns the bits about the press and those other small nuances, he's going to be a very, very good player for that team. And that wounds me deeply.
- [14:08]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
All right, but like somebody on Kitchen Nightmares, Semenya might find himself getting screamed at directly close to his face and wondering what is going on, like Pep Guardiola would do to his players quite a lot. All right, next we'll get into team news and where each side will look to hurt each other.
- [14:28]
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- [14:57]
Alex Barker
Par le tu francais, Havlas espanol, parl Italiano.
- [15:02]
Karl Anker
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- [15:39]
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- [15:57]
Alex Barker
What?
- [15:57]
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- [16:20]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair. So Ahmad Jalo and Brynon Bermo have returned to Manchester United from AFCON after Ivory coast and Cameroon's respective tournaments came to an end in the quarterfinals. Karl, you're never a better player than when you're out of the side, but these two are prime time players for the Red Devils, right? They come straight back in, do they, on Saturday.
- [16:43]
Karl Anker
Interesting one in that to have them both back you would probably have to drop Matias Kunha to the bench. That is something I am amenable to because I unfortunately cun in mitigating circumstances playing in a team that's affected by injury and Afghan absences. Didn't really step up, didn't really take take the mantle and go, I'm going to be the mvp. I'm going to grab the brass ring. So Ahmad is to my mind, the best 1v1 attacker in the Manchester United squad. He's the best one who stands a full back up and goes I'm just going to beat you. And I mean, as far as I'm concerned, he was one of the players that was tournament AFCON at least until the last 16 stage. It was five games, three goals, one assist, three man and match awards. He was tremendous. If you want to play both of them against City, I think you might have to move Mbumo to the left wing and then play a mad on the right wing. Mbumo is very heavily left footed but I think he's got a good match awareness and he's very good at handling the ball and I think he can work as a good secondary striker if he wants to come inside and dovetail with Sesko, which I think Carrick might be inclined to do eventually. I'm really interested to see what Michael Carrick gets out of Benjamin Shesco and indeed off Bryne and Boomer. These two players very, very important for how Manchester United attack. Unfortunately for Michael Carrick, fortunately for Morocco, Masrai will be at AFCON just a bit longer because he's got to compete in the final on the 18th. I think Carrick will use Masrai a lot more when he returns, if only because I think Masrai is quite good at tucking inside. If your left back is going to be Dorgu or Luke Shaw getting forward, Masrawi will be very, very good at going, okay, I'm going to tuck inside and play as a. A third right center back. Third right center back.
- [18:23]
Advertiser/Promotional Voice
You know what I mean?
- [18:24]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
So United got attackers coming back. Alex City as we know have agreed to deal with palace for Gay which would help their defensive absentees. At Newcastle it was Ake, Elaine Kuzanov and Nunez. With Nico O'Reilly holding in midfield, they managed to keep a clean sheet in that game but. But I guess Carrick will be thinking that is somewhere that they can create chances and get at this makeshift City defense.
- [18:49]
Alex Barker
Yeah, I think they will. As I mentioned earlier, Newcastle did create chances against City and it wasn't necessarily the makeshift defense which in a way is encouraging and bad for City. Right, Just explain a bit more. What I noticed. The big chance early on for Vista, for example, was it came from Semenya moving from pressing the fullback up to the center back. So right winger coming inside. If you could picture that in your head. And when that happens, usually it's up to the right back behind him. So Nunes to jump up and support him and. And when wingers make that press because they know Nunes has to support him, what they'll often do is check their shoulder, make sure they're in a good position, you know, to support them. So when he doesn't do that, maybe he's used to being at Bournemouth where the press is very aggressive. Whatever the reason, he jumps up quite early, doesn't check and Nunes is miles behind, he cannot support him. And City are able to be played through pretty easily from that moment. And that's when Newcastle just get directly at the makeshift defence. So I think when we're talking about it, what should worry City is not necessarily the issue of they're doing everything right and then it's just Kusanov letting them down, for example. It's. They could be putting themselves in a position where a back client is quite inexperienced and hasn't got a lot of game time is exposed and then having to do emergency defending, that's the thing that will worry them. And you know, I focused on some Enola. He's obviously been great and if anything he might be better than Ryan Turkey in this respect. Turkey is being targeted by Pep Guardiola despite being fantastic this season for his defensive issues. Right. In a way, you can think of Semenya trying to push him in that regard. So I think whatever Pep does against Man United, unless it's a relatively conservative team, there are going to be moments when City allow that backline to be exposed. And yeah, we'll see how strong some of those defenders really are.
- [20:39]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Right, well, both teams coming into this one off the back of three straight draws in the Premier League. What do you reckon, Alex? Is this going to be another stalemate or do we get a winner?
- [20:47]
Alex Barker
I will say a 22 draw. All right.
- [20:50]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
I don't mind the look of that, Carl. Are you going to predict a United victory?
- [20:54]
Karl Anker
I have to. I'm contractorially obligated should surely. I'm going to predict a 21 victory for Manchester United. It's going to be very much a counterattack win, one set piece goal, one scrappy counterattack and a lot of nail biting moments.
- [21:08]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
All right, we shall see 12:30 Saturday for that one. This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair. Well, this is the part of the show where with the help of our partners, Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. Our friend James Mackey is with us. James, it's the Manchester Derby in focus. How are the odds Looking for this one, please?
- [21:28]
James Mackey
Yeah, cracking game in storm at the Betfair Sportsbook has the home side Manchester United as the outsiders to win the game on Saturday afternoon at 12 to 5. And you can see why with one win in their last seven games and United lost the reverse fixture against Man City 3 nil in September. And at home in the Derby, they've not scored in four their last five Premier League games against Manchester City, including their last two in a row. So it's a real uphill battle for them. But obviously they've got the new manager Bounds, haven't they, of Carrick coming in. So it'd be really interesting to see how that goes. City their odds on favorites at 5 to 6 in the match. Odds 90 market. And we'll be looking to build on that big win away to Newcastle in the week. Also, they have a superb record in the Derby. Old Trafford having won more Premier League away games against Manchester United than any other visiting side. The draw is priced at 12 to 5, so it could be interesting to see how the game goes.
- [22:20]
Alex Barker
Matt.
- [22:20]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Right, we've had some luck with our bet builders this season. Whenever we've done a Manchester City game There's one man in particular who tends to feature in them. I believe he does a gain as well as Manchester United's central figure.
- [22:33]
James Mackey
Yeah, absolutely bang on. Look, we've been on a decent run recently, let's try and keep it going. But Erling Haaland, especially against Manchester United, has to feature. So the bet builder this week there's three legs as usual and we'll start with City's main man Erling Haaland, who scored the most goals 20 this season. He's also netted eight goals in six games against Manchester United in the Premier League, being involved in more Premier League goals against United than any other man. City player with 11, having had a hand in all three goals in the last appearance at Old Trafford back in October 2023 as well. So all the stats are there. He's 8, 11 to score. Anytime I could have gone for him to score two to score a hat tricks, I think he could have a field day. I do think Man United will score though, Matt on Saturday. I think City have been giving up chances, especially with this week in defence with Diaz and Guardiol out. And the man who's been able to unlock either the deadlock or unlock a pass through to his teammates is Bruno Fernandes. He's assisted eight goals in his last 11 Premier League appearances, creating five chances in four of his last five games. Also, only Haaland and Igor Thiago have been involved in more Premier League goals since the start of November than Manchester United. Bruno Fernandes with 10, so he's 7 to 5 to either score or assist in the game. And finally, I just think City's price of 5 to 6 is a bit of value to win the game in the Machos 90 market. I can see them keeping their good run of form, Old Trafford going and look they're heading to the game off the back of a big win. So City to win five, six finished off the leg. So overall those three selections come together for around a six to one bet builder. And the beauty of the goal score or assist markets mentioned, so they have safe sub attached to them, meaning if those legs haven't won and those players come off, the player that replaced them carries on that leg of the bet. And like I mentioned, with backing city in the MatchOS 90 market, that means if they are winning at 90 minutes, Betfair will be paying out regardless what happens in added time.
- [24:23]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Nice one. Sounds good to me. Cheers James, we'll speak to you again soon.
- [24:26]
Karl Anker
Thanks Mark.
- [24:26]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly.
- [24:29]
Karl Anker
Sponsored by Betfair now.
- [24:31]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Chelsea and Arsenal went head to head in the Carabao cup semi final on Wednesday night. It didn't disappoint. Arsenal won 32 at the Bridge. We'll come on to Rossenia and Chelsea shortly. Arsenal wise though, Alex, are going to be kicking themselves, aren't they? Their margin of victory in that game should have been greater given the chances they had. And also Chelsea's absentees.
- [24:50]
Alex Barker
Yeah, maybe something of a missed opportunity there for Arsenal, but I guess they are, you know, competing in multiple fronts and I'll set to be wary of going too hard in a game, especially when he's just got his injured players back. I can sort of understand it, but then again I think Arsenal were comfortably the better team largely throughout the game. So despite them as chances, I think they could still go into the second.
- [25:10]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
They're pretty confident and they were boosted or one player specifically Karl was by the fact that he scored a goal in Victor Jocherez. Not been an easy start for him to his time as an Arsenal player. Did he do enough to keep his place for Saturday evening's trip to the world famous City Ground? I do get the impression that Nicola Milankovic would much rather mark him than have a serge. Jesus.
- [25:32]
Karl Anker
Yeah, I think that's a fair assessment. In that Joker is going to be very combative. He's going to want to tussle with centre backs, which some centre backs don't like that. Some centre backs relish that going, okay, I know where you are all times because you're basically in my armpit. Jocores. Goal. You don't get extra points for style. You don't get extra bing, bang, boom for style. It's good that he's in amongst the goals again. I'm not sure he's going to be an Arsenal player in 2028, but he is going to finish one of those seasons between now and 2028 with one of those trophies and he probably would have played a decent role in it. So I think eventually it's going to be Havertz, Jesus, possibly even Mourinho and then Joker as your goal scoring hierarchy. Arsenal fans, you can please correct me if I've got that wrong in the comments, but for now Jokers is doing a job and if that job also gets some goals, so be it.
- [26:21]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
And he'll always get chances from set pieces in this Arsenal team. Their opening goal against Chelsea came From on their 24th such goal this season. Meanwhile, only Bournemouth have conceded more from set plays than Forest. Alex. Arsenal better at taking corners than Marlo Stanfield. Would it be more of a surprise if they don't score from one here? The Wire, by the way, last episode broadcast in 2008.
- [26:44]
Alex Barker
Oh, wow. I mean, set pieces, what a fun Premier League topic. But I mean, with Gabriel back as well, that's basically their secret weapon. So it would be a surprise if they don't score a set piece in this game.
- [26:56]
Karl Anker
It's not really a secret though, isn't it?
- [26:58]
Alex Barker
That's a good point, actually. Yeah, their main weapon. That's a good correction.
- [27:03]
Karl Anker
It's not a critique. I said it before on the show. It's not critique. It is a fantastic way of like breaking down a low block in the. Arsenal now are the best team in the league, not just in terms of ball progression, getting the ball from the edge of their penalty or to other one, but keeping it there until they score a goal. Now, throughout the history of the Premier League, there have been various ways of making sure the ball stays there for as long as possible until you score a goal. You either have amazing strikers so you're okay. Well, the time we have here doesn't need to be too long. You have very, very good defensive midfielders so you can maintain the pressure for longer and longer and longer. So I'm thinking about players like Fernandinho, Fabinho, those sort of pressure valves. But Arsenal's one is we'll keep the pressure there and then when you eventually crack and give away a corner, then going to drop the hammer on you. And I've said it multiple times, once Arsenal get that first goal, if it is from a set piece, when the opposition team then goes, oh God, now we have to come out and get an equalizer, then Arsenal just go through the gears and it is brutal at times. Some the speed at which Arsenal can go from being 1 nil up to being 4 nil up, if you're not paying attention, that's the mark of a team that is going to win big medals. Might not be to everyone's taste. I think some Arsenal fans are quite enjoying getting the the criticism of being set piece FC and the Stoke FC stuff. But hey, it's winning and it's working and as far as I can tell, it's really hard to stop because they have so many ways of just hurting you from a corner kick now.
- [28:23]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Yeah, it was quite funny being at Stamford Bridge on Wednesday night and hearing the joy from the away end as they chanted set piece again. Ole, ole. Every time they got a corner, which inevitably resulted in either a goal Or. Or a decent chance. They have won nine of their last 10 games. Carl hasn't always been the most convincing run. Still uncertainty, particularly amongst the fan base, wrote the Arsenal supporting producer of this podcast. I mean, it's not possible to be brilliant every week, is it? As long as you get in the wins, it doesn't. Doesn't really matter if you're top of the table, does it?
- [28:52]
Karl Anker
It's an interesting one and I think. I think Arsenal and Liverpool have been stung by how good Manchester City have been in the past at catching up. So that there is. You talk to Liverpool fans about this and they always say it's horrible being first because you just know they're not going to drop points and you're constantly looking over their shoulder and it's really, really hard to enjoy being top of the table for a bit. And then Arsenal now finished second for last three seasons. And you can feel that tension sometimes in the Arsenal fan base before games where they go, oh, my God, I feel physically sick. And then, oh, and then it's like, oh, yeah, nice, we won. So, again, you don't get extra points for style. They haven't looked dazzling and brilliant in the same way that some previous Premier League winners have looked in their absolute most imperious pump. We. We always talk about when Man City start the lap and they win 13 Premier League games in a row, you're like, ah, Jesus Christ. Arsenal aren't looking as artistic as City do in that point in time. But also, I just look at the scoreboard and I'm just going, that, that's. That's a team that's winning a big trophy at the end of this season. And we all need to make peace with it now because like Alex said, when the Arsenal fans come after you, it can be scary.
- [30:04]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Forest wise, he said, sighing, the City ground hasn't been the happiest of foams for them this season. They've lost six of 10 league games there. That's more than the whole of last season. I mean, three managers by Christmas will do that to you. Would either of you two like to ask me a question about Forest?
- [30:21]
Karl Anker
Yes, we've just been talking about AFCON returnees. Ibrahim. Sangare should be back for this game. Is it a case of slotting him in next to Elliot Anderson and then hopefully things will improve in the weeks going forward?
- [30:35]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Yes, Elliot Anderson has suffered massively in recent weeks, either from being knackered or from the fact that Sangare hasn't been there. But it's really interesting that Sangare Was he was not a figure of ridicule, but it was more. More pity for the majority of his Forest career. Now, the last game he played before he went off was the three nil win against spurs when he scored and was generally excellent. And Forest haven't played well since that game. So he. His absence has been keenly felt. So, yeah, I'm hoping he's going to come back in and make a big difference, but I can't see anything other than an Arsenal win here. Can you. Can you help me, Alex? Can you make a case for Forest in any way, shape or form here?
- [31:12]
Alex Barker
No, actually my question would have been of a much more dour note. I don't watch Nottingham Forest every week. I've. I respect myself and my Jesus man. And what I've noticed though from the outside. So it seems like Zinchenko is holding talks with Sean Dyche. Believe the Athletic reported that Arnold Kalamwendo, great signing I thought in the summer he's left. Looks like all the technical players. Marinaki's idea seemed of pushing Forest in a more possession, dominant direction, getting them up the table. They seem to be going well. Sean Dasch isn't getting as many good results. So how long does the Sean Dasch experiment work and then where do you think they go from there? Do they swing back to an Antepostecoglou style If. If Das were to go or you know what. What are they going to do?
- [31:58]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Well on Zinchenko, he is absolutely rubbish. He's been terrible for Forest in every game that he's played and we're looking forward to not seeing him ever play for the club again. Yeah, Arube, he was bought as Callamo Wendo. Not really suit for the Premier League. I don't think I'd be surprised if Sean Dyche was Forest manager next season. I've got to be honest. There's definite uptick and they are much better than they were before he came. But it's really dropped off in recent weeks and Evangelos Marinakis had to humble himself by pointing him in the first place. If there's any chance that he can get Marco Silva, he will go hell for leather to do that. Worked at Olympiacos before and Marinakis absolutely loves him. So if he is not tempted by Manchester United or somewhere else and the pay packet's big enough, I would assume that that will be the first choice. But yeah, other than that. I touted Thomas Frank on X, formerly known as Twitter, as a good Forest manager and people did not enjoy that at all. So hopefully not Ange Postecoglou, but yeah, probably a new manager at some point for Forest. Next season we shall see a new manager. That leads me nicely to Chelsea against Brentford. Brentford love coming to Stamford Bridge. Defeat for Chelsea midweek. By no means the end of the world considering the players unavailable, plenty for Liam Rosenhea to build upon. But league form needs to change. They've only won one of their last nine. Have you noticed much tactically, Alex, from. From what Rosenio's done in his. In his first two games in charge, that might be different to what Enzo Maresca was.
- [33:25]
Alex Barker
So for context I've taken both these games with ginormous pints of salt because for a bit of background on Rosinho, I attacked Matt there. For watching Forest, I have zero life and I watch Lee Gun every week. So there's me and I've watched a lot of Strasbourg and they've been. They've been in a very different place to Chelsea where they're quite often able to play underdog football. They tend to dominate against the weaker teams in the league. But against the likes of Lyon or Monaco or Marseille, for example, in France they can sit back and play more counter attacking football, whereas Chelsea can't really do that against most of the league. So with all of that out of the way, I will say the one thing I did notice that I felt was quite interesting was his use of Estefal and the wingers in general. I felt they were given a lot more freedom to come inside. If you look at the heat maps, for example, of Chelsea's wingers this season, they're generally stuck towards the touchline, which I think Maresca quite likes that. He often likes inverting his fullbacks. Not every game of course, but I think his wingers stayed on the touchline a bit more. Rossinho at Strasbourg, what he did a lot more was pushing one of these fullbacks as like an actual winger and bringing the other winger inside as a number 10. So I think we saw a bit of that against Arsenal. Westerval coming inside, getting a nice little pockets of space. So maybe that's something Chelsea fans can look forward to. I think the positive of it is that you do get a bit more going forward. The weaknesses, you quite often leave yourself more open at the back. You know it's an attacking risk you're making and we'll see how much it pays off across the season.
- [34:53]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
What about Alejandro Garnacho? Carl interested to get your. Your take on him? You'll have seen a lot of him at Manchester United left on the bench on Wednesday, but came off and scored two quick fire goals. A lot of talk about whether somebody can unlock him as a player, which feels a bit harsh to me because he's. He's 21. It's not like it's now or never for him, is it?
- [35:13]
Karl Anker
Yes. And I think what you've just described is the best implementation of Alejandro Garnacho, which is put him on the bench and then 30 minutes to go, get him off and get him running at tired legs. One of the issues that pretty much had nothing to do with Garnacho as an entity is, is that he, to my mind, he just played far too much football for Manchester United. If you look at their squad composition and the position he was playing and he emerged in, he was playing, I think he played 38 games in a row for Manchester United on Eric ten Hago at one point, in part because the right winger that should have been there was Jadon Sancho, but Sancho fell out. Erik 10 Hag and the right winger they signed to replace Jadon Sancho was Anthony, who just was not Premier League quality. So it was Garnacho starting games again and again and again and again. And Garnacho, which Chelsea fans will learn this about Garnacho, one of his good and sometimes annoying qualities is he sort of has a goldfish memory. So he gets the ball and goes, I'm going to run at this fullback as fast as I can, and regardless of what, whether that was a success or a failure, he's going to get the ball again and go, I'm going to run at this fullback as fast as I can. Now if you are under pressure and you need an outlet and you need someone just to drag you five yards up the field again and again and again, Garnacho is good for that. Eventually, if Liam Rosenhe wants to play higher, more progressive football and make Chelsea the protagonist of games, Garnacho will be annoying because you're going, could you please stop running at this man at 100 miles an hour and get your head up and do things.
- [36:42]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Brentford, amazing season that they're having. Can't believe I predicted them to go down as recently as about a month ago. Their fifth. They're two points behind Liverpool. In fourth place, Alex of that kind of middle pack, most of whom's names begin with B, your Brightons, your Bournemouths, and to a lesser extent Fulham. Are they the most likely to get some European football? I mean, we're kind of all waiting for the dip to happen. And I note that after this, three of their next four are Villa Newcastle and Arsenal, so it might start getting a bit real.
- [37:11]
Alex Barker
I'm in the camp of waiting for the dip to happen. We actually covered them relatively recently in a relegation Episode for Athletics YouTube channel that was recorded when they were like 16th and since then they've won two games, which of course in the Premier League puts you up to like fifth at the moment of how ridiculously tight the table is now my main fear with Brentford is nothing to do with the starting 11. It's right behind them. They've just signed a backup striker from Clubbrook. Same place they got Eagle Thiago, but I think he's 18 years old, so they've not really got any depth for Thiago and outside of Shada Unataro, they've not really got much wide depth either. They have recent else in who they've barely played. Gustavo Nunes, who is a name you won't have heard of because he's also not really played and then their two attacking midfield signings in the summer, Fabio Carvalho and Anthony Malambo, both ruled out for the season of injury. So I I'm still waiting for the dip personally because I think any injury to that front line severely hampers their attacking quality. Maybe it will last a season, to be fair, but that is just something to watch out for.
- [38:12]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
That's a Saturday 3pm kickoff, a West London derby, no less.
- [38:21]
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- [38:51]
Matt Davis Adams
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Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
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Karl Anker
Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?
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Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
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- [40:32]
Sam Lee
Do not know what the ambitions for spurs are the famous quotes after Europa League and particularly to justify the dismissal of Antipostecoglou. We want to win more often and more things or whatever the exact quote was. That's easy to say. You've got to do it. Football clubs at this level need complete, utter, total, eternal and laser sharp focus on what's happening on the pitch. Because everything flows from that. You can have Beyonce playing there for 150 years every night. You can charge 20 quid for a bottle of beer. It doesn't matter if that's not being converted into viewable tangible success. And I mean just in quality of the football on the pitch and that requires incredible focus on that activity. Moving the deck chairs around so everyone's got a new a nice job title and a nice car parking space. That's not focus, that's messing. Get on with it.
- [41:26]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Well said Danny. So Spurs FA cup defeat to Villa means they're out of both domestic cup competitions. Karl they've signed Conor Gallagher and bought John, formerly known as Johnny Heitinger in his coach this week. Is that proof of backing for the embattled Thomas Frank? I mean Gallagher feels like quite a Thomas Frank player to me.
- [41:45]
Karl Anker
The Conor Gallagher signing is an odd one to me in that spurs issue is ball progression from central midfield. The Pellinio Bentoncourt central midfield pivot is they can fight but can you get the ball from your penalty eritier1 please can someone get the ball to Xavi Shimon's please? Yeah hard and Conor Gallagher's skills are He's a very very good off ball player. Very very highly intelligent at recognizing whether to press the man, the ball, the zone. He's very good at. Later, Ralston box. There was a point in time where I saw Chelsea fans call him Frank Lampard's nephew. But he. He's not that sort of progressive passer, especially from deep. So the problem for spurs right now is if you just cut off the supply in the middle, they just have this very sterile horseshoe of death where the ball goes from one fullback to the other constantly because they're trying to probe and then they don't really hurt you. And then, I mean, the Brentford game they played away from home recently where they just look far more interested in trying to win a corner kick or a free kick rather than actually trying to win the game in open play. Gross. Conor Gallagher is a good player. I'm not sure if he solves those problems, but then there might be more players coming in. John Johnny Heitnger used to live in Manchester. There were two or three times where I spotted him. I spoke to him in Dutch and he was like, Nederlands. I was like, yeah. And he was like, why are you speaking Dutch to me? And I was like, well, I don't want you to know who I am. His time at Liverpool saw him very highly regarded and obviously he's a Premier League winner from. From that season. I'm not entirely au FAI as to what role he had on the honor slot, but a cursory conversation with two or three of my Liverpool supporting friends were they were a bit annoyed that Pieting has gone there rather than gone back to Liverpool. So he seems to be very highly regarded there. Moving in new assistant managers while keeping the head coach in place is something I've seen two or three times in recent seasons. This is a much smaller example, but one that springs to mind was there was a season where Ralph Hassell completely changed his assistant management rota at Southampton. And I very much felt like we don't want to sack him yet, but we do want to give him one more chance. We're going to get in other people to sort of minimize his weaknesses. So maybe that's what the plan is hiding. I think spurs are going to keep Thomas Franken till the end of the season, if only because they're waiting for the managerial merry go round after the World cup like so many other clubs are.
- [44:00]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
This is interesting, Alex, because West Ham have also added a new coach this week. His name is Paco Llemes. Nuno said he's an experienced coach and he'll bring new things to us. He will help us definitely Is it just me that thinks that this fella is being brought in to take over if and when Nuno gets P45. Nuno only bought one of his staff from Forest with him, who was the goalkeeper coach. This feels slightly different to the Heiting a frank thing to me, but maybe, maybe it's not.
- [44:30]
Alex Barker
Potentially, I think with West Ham there's such a mess at the moment, is really hard to predict. West Ham are my local side, so I'm very much surrounded by angry fans at the moment and a team that should be too good to go down, but somehow fallen into this. I think this is very much based off vibes rather than fact. But I do remember Nuno's rescue season at Forest when he came in and got back the relegations. And it did take a while for him to get things going there. And it is worth saying West Ham have had good performances under him, just not always got the results. They just have a really poor ability to hold on to leads and it's quite often through individual errors rather than, let's say, like the tactical approach or anything like that. Sacking Nuno would just be because they don't know what else to do. And I think the smartest thing they can do is just give him time and actually, yeah, give him an assistant manager. Because we always think of managers, it's coaching teams that make the difference. So maybe it is a guy to replace him eventually, but maybe this is someone who's actually speed up the process of saving them.
- [45:28]
Karl Anker
It's hard for West Ham in that I think Alex is right. There are some good performances and good patches of play there. But some of West Ham's problems are things you can't out coach. One thing that really sticks out like a sore thumb. When I watch West Ham plays, their defenders are quiet. It's really, really hard to out coach a defender who doesn't shout man on to his fullback. And that's where some of your individual errors are coming in to. Debo. Very, very quiet. Wan Bissaka, Manchester United Very, very quiet. So when you've got players that aren't shouting man on that aren't doing those sort of basics, it sometimes feels like a denigration, the essentials of Premier League football. It just makes whatever scheme you've got, if the defender doesn't know there's someone about to pressure him, he's going to cough the ball up two or three more times than he should. And that means there's two or three more times, obviously in teams can score. And that means. And it's a horrible domino effect. I feel for Nuno, and I think he's a very, very good coach. I feel as if the West Ham job is just that's just a bad environment for a man of his skills.
- [46:28]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
Spurs v West Ham is 3 o' clock on Saturday. Could be fun to rub a neck on, or could just be really depressing and miserable. We shall see. That's where we'll leave things for today. Many thanks to Alex, to Carl, to Sam, to producer Jay and to you for listening. Enjoy the football. We'll be back with you same time next week. You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producer was J. Beal and the.
- [46:52]
Karl Anker
Presenter was Matt Davis Adams.
- [46:53]
Host/Presenter (Matt Davis Adams)
The executive producer was A. Moorhead. The Athletic FC podcast is an Athletic.
- [46:58]
Karl Anker
Media company production and proudly sponsored by Betfair.
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