The Preview - Man United vs Man City

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast: Episode Preview - Manchester United vs. Manchester City
Release Date: April 4, 2025
Host: Adam Leventhal
Guests: Karl Anker and Sam Lee

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Introduction: Setting the Scene

As the Premier League season enters its final stretch with eight games remaining, the upcoming Manchester Derby at Old Trafford takes center stage. Host Adam Leventhal welcomes Manchester United and Manchester City reporters, Karl Anker and Sam Lee, to dissect the current state of both clubs and what’s at stake in this high-stakes fixture.

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Current State of Manchester United

Emotional Climate and Performance Struggles

Adam Leventhal opens the discussion by contrasting the emotional states of both teams. Manchester United finds itself struggling near the relegation zone, a stark contrast to Manchester City, who are no longer in the title race. Karl Anker succinctly captures United's predicament: “Fraught” ([03:57]).

Management and Player Misprofiling

A significant portion of the conversation delves into the challenges faced by United’s manager, Ruben Amarim. Anker criticizes Amarim’s handling of player profiles, particularly highlighting Anthony Elanga’s departure. Anker remarks, “Amelia has been reduced to playing four, four, two, big man up top” ([11:42]), emphasizing the tactical missteps that have hindered United’s performance.

Scott McTominay’s Evolution

The team also discusses Scott McTominay’s evolving role. Anker reflects on McTominay’s misprofiling and his transition from a defensive midfielder to a more offensive role: “...he was initially misprofiled when he first emerged” ([07:45]). This shift has led to inconsistent performances and highlights deeper structural issues within the squad.

Lack of Physicality and Depth

Karl Anker points out the lack of physicality and depth in United’s squad, noting, “the underlying problem is this Manchester United team squad as a whole lacks physicality” ([35:59]). This deficiency is evident in recent matches, where United has struggled to maintain intensity against physically robust opponents.

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Current State of Manchester City

Fan Discontent and Ticketing Issues

Sam Lee shifts focus to Manchester City, discussing the growing discontent among fans regarding ticketing policies. Lee explains, “...over the last 12 months in particular, there's really been a lot of fan backlash towards City and, like, the ticketing policies” ([13:59]). Recent protests, including a coordinated concourse boycott, have marred the matchday experience and reflected broader dissatisfaction with club management decisions.

Team Dynamics and Tactical Stability

Despite these off-field issues, City maintains a strong performance on the pitch, though not without its own problems. Lee acknowledges, “I still think they'll be all right, but I don't think it'd be comfortable” ([39:07]), especially with key players like Erling Haaland sidelined due to injury. The team’s reliance on a “thousand million passes” approach, as Leventhal paraphrases, underscores Guardiola’s tactical philosophy, even in Haaland’s absence.

Aging Squad and Future Prospects

The discussion also touches on City’s aging squad and its implications for future seasons. Karl Anker observes, “This is a man City team full of players that make a noise when they sit down” ([33:19]), highlighting concerns about the sustainability of their current roster. However, there is optimism that Guardiola’s strategic planning will mitigate these issues over the next transfer window.

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Key Player Analyses

Anthony Elanga’s Departure

A pivotal moment in the podcast is the analysis of Anthony Elanga’s exit from United. Anker debates whether Elanga’s lack of fit within United was a matter of misprofiling or simply the nature of a big club where talented players often seek success elsewhere: “Was he right and is it just the fact of life at a big club...?” ([05:05]). The consensus leans towards Elanga needing a more suitable environment to thrive, which United ultimately couldn’t provide.

Harry Maguire’s Infield Appearance

Maguire’s brief stint as a makeshift striker against Nottingham Forest sparks discussion on tactical desperation and squad versatility. Karl Anker critiques this move, stating, “...it makes me feel that Ruben Amarim has been in English for five months and he's already reverted to playing 442 with the big man up top” ([11:42]). While Maguire showed glimpses of effectiveness, Anker remains skeptical about such unorthodox strategies being sustainable.

Jack Grealish’s Struggles at Manchester City

Sam Lee expresses concern over Jack Grealish’s diminished role and performance at City: “I just feel like it's a bit of a false debate sometimes... but is Grealish the man to score like five goals between now and the end of the season? Like, no, because even when he's playing well and when he's available, he doesn't do that” ([20:07]). The conversation underscores the frustration surrounding Grealish’s inconsistent contributions and limited availability, raising questions about his long-term role at the club.

Erling Haaland’s Injury Impact

Haaland’s injury is a critical factor affecting City’s offensive capabilities. Sam Lee anticipates Haaland’s return might be delayed until the end of the season: “No, not soon. Start of the week, Guardiola was saying five to seven weeks and then it's like five to six” ([26:03]). Without Haaland, City faces challenges in maintaining their goal-scoring prowess, relying more on midfielders like Mahmoud to fill the void.

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Tactical Battles and Managerial Strategies

Ruben Amarim vs. Pep Guardiola

The Derby becomes a battleground for contrasting managerial philosophies. Amarim’s pragmatic approach versus Guardiola’s intricate passing game creates an intriguing tactical duel. Karl Anker praises Amarim’s ability to secure crucial victories against top teams: “Amarim definitely has a way of approaching some of these bigger fixtures that seems to suit this current group of players” ([29:16]).

Guardiola’s Thousand Million Passes Strategy

Pep Guardiola’s emphasis on possession and intricate passing is dissected, with Sam Lee humorously describing his mental approach: “this sounds like a really good elevator ride through Pep Guardiola's mind” ([32:42]). The debate centers on whether this style remains effective without key players like Haaland, and how it might be countered by Amarim’s more direct tactics.

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Derby Preview: Key Issues and Predictions

Manchester United’s Physicality vs. City’s Technique

The podcast highlights United’s lack of physicality compared to City’s technical finesse. Karl Anker states, “the underlying problem is this Manchester United team squad as a whole lacks physicality” ([35:59]), which could be exploited by City’s strategically superior playmaking.

Impact of Fan Atmosphere and Recent Performances

Sam Lee discusses how recent protests and fan dissatisfaction might influence the Derby’s atmosphere: “...a lot of City fans are thinking, look, you can buy these tickets from the City's official retail resale partners...” ([17:17]). However, both teams’ recent inconsistencies add uncertainty to the outcome.

Final Predictions

As the podcast wraps up, both Anker and Lee offer their predictions. Karl Anker remains cautiously optimistic about United’s potential to disrupt City, stating, “this is going to be one of the worst 21 victories you'll see this season” ([41:51]). Sam Lee backs City’s stability but acknowledges United’s capability to pull off an upset, especially in a high-pressure derby setting.

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Conclusion: Implications for the Season Ahead

The Manchester Derby is not just a clash of rivals but a pivotal moment for both clubs’ seasons. For United, a victory could reignite their campaign and stave off relegation fears, while for City, it’s an opportunity to consolidate their position and push for European qualification. The discussions emphasize the strategic adjustments both managers might employ and the critical performances expected from key players to secure the desired outcomes.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Karl Anker on United’s Emotional State: “Fraught.” [03:57]
• Sam Lee on Fan Protests at City: “...there’s definitely one to keep an eye on that.” [16:55]
• Karl Anker on McTominay: “...he was completely misprofiled when he first emerged.” [07:45]
• Karl Anker on Physicality Issues: “This Manchester United team squad as a whole lacks physicality.” [35:59]
• Sam Lee on Grealish’s Role: “Is Grealish the man to score like five goals between now and the end of the season? Like, no...” [20:07]
• Karl Anker’s Derby Prediction: “this is going to be one of the worst 21 victories you'll see this season.” [41:51]

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This episode of The Athletic FC Podcast offers an in-depth analysis of Manchester United’s struggles and Manchester City’s challenges as the Premier League season nears its conclusion. Through insightful discussions and expert opinions from Karl Anker and Sam Lee, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of what to expect in the upcoming Derby and its potential ramifications for both clubs' futures.

Transcript

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[Karl Anker]

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[Adam Leventhal]

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[Sam Lee]

The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

[Unknown Host]

Hi there, I'm Adam Leventhal. Welcome to the preview on the Athletic fc. With eight games to go of this Premier League season, we are focusing on Sunday's Manchester Derby at Old Trafford before we set you up for the other big games this weekend. And joining me, we have a red blue divide, the Athletics United and City reporters Karl Anker and Sam Lee. Gents, thank you very much for coming on. I wanted to start with a sentence, if we can, to describe the emotions in each camp because it is different at this stage of the season, obviously. United languishing down near the relegation zone. City not fighting for the title. Karl, how are you feeling?

[Unknown Guest]

Fraught.

[Unknown Host]

Fraught. Yeah, that's good. I'll have that. I'll take that. And Sam?

[Sam Lee]

Unsure.

[Unknown Host]

Good. Yeah, but that's what I was expecting. It is different, isn't it? It does have a completely sort of different feel as we head towards the. Well, not the crescendo of the season for either of these sides. And both sides in action midweek. City obviously beating Leicester 20 at the Etihad. United lost against Forest at the City Ground, 13th in the Premier League. Karl 1989 90, the last time that United finished that low and against City, it was Antony Alanga scoring the winner just to rub salt into the wounds. And I saw Reuben Amarim afterwards almost shrug and say that, yeah, there's been lots of young attackers at United over the years that have had their chance and they've gone on to succeed elsewhere. Is he right and is it just the fact of life at a big club or is this a player going elsewhere having his best season? Because everything continues to be wrong and everything was wrong when he was at United too.

[Karl Anker]

It's such a cheeky question to ask Reuben Amarin about a player who was sold when he wasn't a Manchester United manager.

[Unknown Host]

But he gave an opinion on it, didn't he? He did give an opinion.

[Karl Anker]

Look, Ruben Amren, for better or worse, is an Honest man.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah.

[Karl Anker]

I'm not sure if you can be an honest Manchester United manager, but he's given a good go. Right, let's talk about Antonia Lange. Anthony Lange was described as a refreshingly boring gym addict when he was at United. Ole Gunnar Solsha once said if you asked him to go to the cricket ground to get a second a cup pop, he'd run off and do it. So there's always this thought, this is a person who lived in the gym and was had phenomenal athletic ability. However, there were questions over his suitability to help Man United break down stubborn defenses. We knew open space, let him run. You can hurt teams, but when United and United ideally want to get to position where they can dominate possession week in, week out, was Elanga the sort of right side of play to. To help you do that? And you know, I came to the conclusion that it was no, you needed to. To get a more expansive on board creator. The problem is those players that got in to do that. One of them is Jaden Sancho, who's now on loan at Chelsea. Another one is Anthony, who's now on loan at Raoul Betis. So there was never going to be a question that Anton Lang was going to be a Premier League football player. He's got the athletic ability, the physical traits, he's got the mindset, the above shoulder stuff and the way he applies himself. He was always going to find somewhere in the top 20 teams in England or elsewhere and be a good football player. Was he going to be a Manchester United football player or the idealized version of a Manchester United football player? Who knows? The problem is United could, should, however you want to describe it, got a better replacement. So now Elanga scoring just a real proper Anthony Elanga goal going coast to coast right in your head. Yeah, that one's done just a little bit.

[Unknown Host]

And it's interesting. It's something that came up in the. In the Scott McTominay interview that you can read on, on the Athletic at the moment, which is pertinent to this. A couple of interesting points that were made by him and he talked about being misprofiled at the beginning. He also spoke the pressure that comes from the fans. They want you to be ready when you play for Manchester United. And he also spoke about the fact that he was always initially overlooked when a new player was brought in. And then it came good and the manager realised his worth. Have any of these issues been addressed? Are you confident that we're beyond that sort of situation happening again?

[Karl Anker]

Adam with 13th?

[Unknown Host]

No I know, but I'm just hoping that for your sake, behind the scenes it's all happening and everything's turning out good, but I sense that that's not the case.

[Karl Anker]

That was a fantastic interview by Rory Smith with Scott McTominay. McTominay was correct. He was completely misprofiled when he first emerged. He emerged in 2018 when Jose Mourinho was in his weird cold war with Paul Pogba. McTominay started playing as a defensive minded midfielder where what we've now seen in the two most recent seasons, he's far better working closer to the opponent's goal and not being involved in buildup rather than working picking the ball up from his center backs. But when it's Manchester United and other football players who've been a lot of money have been spent on them, haven't done their jobs in that deeper midfield area, it's been McTominay to, to fill in that role. The McFred partnership that was derided by many fans became one that got picked a lot because McFred, Fred and McTominay were two players that were fit more often than not. And yeah, they're the ones that, okay, it was two players doing the job of ideally one man, but they did the job as best as they could. And if you look at Manchester United right now, this 3, 4, 3, there's a number of players you can say, okay, you're perhaps not the quality of a Manchester United team that ideally wants to be competing for the Premier league title in 2028, but you are doing a job right now as best as you could. Gonna imagine the listener going to be screaming back to me, that's because Amarin's playing 3, 4, 3. But also I think that was evident when on the 10 Hag when United were playing the 4, 2, 3, 1. There's, there's, this is a very misshapen, miss lumpen squad. And regardless of whatever tactic you want to put in, there's always a slightly odd fit somewhere, which means you have players probably misprofiled for a little bit.

[Unknown Host]

Just bring in Sam on this. Obviously Omar Barada made the transition, you know, a while ago from, from City to United. Is this something that will be in his DNA to help sort out this streamlining this structure so United don't have these issues over and over again.

[Sam Lee]

Not on the football side necessarily. You know, if you're the CEO, you're looking at the money and the structure and everything on the business side. But obviously he will have A say in who? Well, you'd think he would have a say in who comes in to look after that football side. But whether it's Berarda himself or just United generally, like, why are they signed Sancho and it's not worked. Why are they signed Pogba and it's not worked. Why they signed a million players, it's not worked. Why have they got Omar Berardo? And it's apparently not working. Like, is. Nobody could put their finger on, like, the rot that's there. Nobody in like, 10 years has said, oh, it's actually this. We know there's a kind of bad atmosphere among the squad for various different reasons and, like, for various different years, it's always been like, certain individuals, but, like, the individuals are kind of been and gone and it's kind of enduring. So it's like there's just something broken there. Like, it must be something, but none of us know what it is. But, yeah, in terms of misprofiling players and stuff, it's not really Berard as brief. And now look, other areas of his job where he could be doing better, right? Yeah, maybe. And bringing in Dan Ashworth and letting him go for the cost of millions at both ends is not ideal, is it? In terms of Berarda, I mean, yeah, he was a great and very valued member of Stafford City. I mean, it would be easy to say, oh, you know, maybe CEO at Man United's like, a job too big for him or something. But that just feels like painting by numbers, really. I don't think. I don't really believe it. It's a difficult job for anyone. And look, when you've got, like we talked about the bad atmosphere among the players, what about among the staff now with all the cuts and redundancies and people looking to leave and things like that, you know, that's not really Berarda, is it? That's. That's Ratcliffe, Sir Jim. So, yeah, I back Omar Berardo as, like, a good employee. Can I. Is he going to, like, fix everything at United? There's no one person who can.

[Unknown Host]

Let's head back to the pitch and talk about the. The symbolism, Karl, of Harry Maguire being used as a makeshift striker for eight minutes against Forrest and trumping Garnacho, Hojlund and Xerxe on xg. How does that make you feel?

[Karl Anker]

It makes me feel that Reuben Amren's been in English for five months and he's already reverted to playing 442 with the big man up top. Right. We talk About Sam used the word rot here.

[Sam Lee]

Yeah, yeah, sorry.

[Karl Anker]

I know some people refer to the swamp or the toxic environment or how United just drags you down to a certain level. So Reuben Amarin, regarded as one of the bright rising stars of European coaching, has now been reduced to playing four, four, two, big man up top. He looked quite nice in his, pretty much press conferences with TNT Sport. He looked like he'd been on holiday over international break. He looked quite smiley and whatnot. And then I saw a photograph Simon Peach took of Amarin post match and it was just like, oh, goodness. We. He had a really nice life before Man United came calling, didn't we? In terms of Maguire, I mean, it was good. He genuinely hassled and preoccupied opposition center backs to an extent that Rasmus Hojlund cannot do right now. There's, there's often this adage about how strikers tend to be really good crosses of the ball because they know exactly how a striker wants the ball to be delivered. So when they do get a chance to whip it in, they whip it in brilliantly. And there are two or three bits if you just hone in on, on Maguire's off ball movement. He is really, really directing his runs towards center backs. Blindside. He's very much going right, I know where the center back cannot see me. I know if I can read their shirt name, I'm in a good position for when the cross comes in. Okay. Yeah, he did have a horrendously off target header, but he was also one merino goal line clearance away from equalizing. So I don't, I don't hate it. And if United need a goal in the last five minutes, I wouldn't mind seeing it again.

[Unknown Host]

Ah, okay. So that's the plan B. That's the future, is it? Okay, good. I like it. Let's talk about City's situation. And it's not all rosy there. You know, we've been giving a bit of tap to United, but let's, let's talk about what's going on at City and the fans in particular. Obviously through to another FA cup semi final, which is. Which is good for a record seventh time. Beat Bournemouth, then beat Leicester at the Etihad 2 nil. But a lot of the fans didn't see that opening goal from Jack Grealish. Just explain for people who have been out of the City loop, why was that the case, Sam?

[Sam Lee]

Yeah, so there was a protest which involved fans staying on the concourse for the first nine minutes of the game. And kind of long story short, over the last 12 months in particular, there's really been a lot of fan backlash towards City and, like, the ticketing policies. I think it was kind of. From my perspective, it certainly seemed to be stoked about 12 months ago when City put up season ticket prices. What's always struck me was City don't really have a centralized, mobilized, like, fan body. Anybody who could kind of rebel against the club if needed. And my perspective was always that if anybody complained about season ticket prices a few years ago, the majority would just, like, kind of shout them down and be like, yeah, but look how good we are. Et cetera, et cetera. But that changed last year when the prices went up again. There was a banner in the stadium. It's like, stop exploiting loyalty. That kind of thing. And for me, I was like, okay, that's interesting, because they don't normally show dissent, like, when it could distract from supporting the team. Then over the summer, there was a controversial policy about charging disabled fans, like, a lot more for parking at the stadium. That eventually got kind of overturned by seti, but that annoyed a lot of people. And then recently, I wrote about this in February. The atmosphere at the Etihad. Look, everyone says the atmosphere of the Etihad's bad, but look, it's like any Premier League stadium. Big game is great. That's. That's just how it is. Anyway, you say the Old Trafford atmosphere is bad, you know. You know, if it's a big game, it's going to be good.

[Karl Anker]

Steady on.

[Unknown Host]

Steady.

[Sam Lee]

I don't know. Like, well, we'll see on Sunday, I guess so. See how many goals are scored for the home team. But the Real Madrid game recently, there was. And people expected it. I expected it because it happened last season. Loads and loads of, like, Real Madrid fans in the home end. And, like, there was a clip of, like, a guy getting his haircut on the concourse, and everyone's just like, you're taking the mick. Like, what's going on? Like, we can't get in with bottle tops. This guy's bringing in, like, hair clippers. Like, all these stories about, you know, Real Madrid fans celebrating goals. I think, like, nearly 100 got ejected. Apparently there was a picture of a kid holding up one of those cardboard signs saying, can I have your shirt? But it was for Vinicius Junior. And it's like, okay, what's going on? And then it happened against Liverpool as well, and there was a video on social media of, like, a Liverpool fan getting absolutely battered in the City end. And it's like, right now this is obviously an issue and a lot of City fans are thinking, sorry, this is going on now. I was supposed to be brief, but a lot of City fans are thinking, look, you can buy these tickets from the City's official retail resale partners for like 150 quid, 200 quid or whatever. And it's like, it's easy to get in as as away fans and that annoyed fans about a month ago. And then last week, I think it was literally Friday. Last week, maybe Thursday, Citi like put on their Twitter account X. Oh, we're very pleased to welcome Viagogo as a resale partner. And everyone's like, what are you doing? Like, what do you mean? Like, how turn deaf is this? So like I said, it was only last week, but very quickly the fans were like, right, we need to sort something out. And they suggested a 15 minute stay in the concourse boycott, but they put it down to nine because of the nine resellers that the City have now got. And to be fair, it was pretty well supported. There was like, if you look at the highlights of the goal and the pictures of the grealish goal, there's not many people behind that goal in the south stand and it was similar all across the stadium. So it's definitely one to keep an eye on that. There was a meeting about season ticket prices yesterday as well. So the kind of City fan discontent was definitely growing.

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[Adam Leventhal]

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[Unknown Host]

And on the, you know, the footballing side of things, yeah, obviously those fans that were staging that protest will have missed Jack Grealish's goal. A rare goal for Jack Grealish on the, on his side. How do you assess his situation, his status at the moment? Because he is obviously someone who, you know, obviously if you're not a City fan, if you're an England fan, you're. You have an interest in what's happening to this, to this guy. What is happening?

[Sam Lee]

Well, there's a glow around Grealish, isn't there? And I'm like, victim of this as well. Like I saw him trotting out the other night. I was, I was talking to somebody else about it. You see him trying out onto the pitch and you just think, I hope it goes well for him. It's like, why, like, if this was other players who like, had barely played this season and like sometimes it's through injury, sometimes like, you know, from the information we get from like certainly last season and this season as well, it's just his own application. Like, if that was some players, you'd just be like, well, I don't know, like, Rashford's a good example, I guess, and like Rashford is a good example because some of the things he did, definitely his fault. But it's like this is the Same with Grealish. And yet like Grealish trots out onto the pitch and you go, I hope it goes well for him. Like, I hope he can like make the most of this opportunity. To be fair, I think it was similar with Rashford with a lot of people, but he obviously got a lot of bad press. You know, in terms of United fans, a lot wanted him to thrive, obviously some didn't and that became a very thorny issue. But like with Grealish, it's got to the point now, like four seasons in and as a player, I'll always defend him. You know, some people say he doesn't score enough, doesn't create enough and I mean, look, the goals record over the last couple of years is bad, but he does bring a lot of value to the team. But the thing is, I can't sit and defend him in terms of the value he brings the team if he's not even playing. Look, we're at this stage now, fourth season, he doesn't get that many games. He's not obviously trusted for whatever reason, he's not seen as being available for various reasons. But look, without Haaland, they're going to need goals. And is Grealish the man to score like five goals between now and the end of the season? Like, no, because even when he's playing well and when he's available, he doesn't do that. But somebody at City is going to have to do it. None of them are really big goal threats.

[Karl Anker]

This, this sounds, this sounds so painful. If you, if you loved watching Grealish at aston villa that 1920 season where he is doing a lot of work to make sure Villa do not get relegated, and the subsequent season, you know, 2021, where he's probably the best player in the bottom half, so much so where Villa, you know, make really good inroads to not being a bottom half team. I mean this was a player who was the hub of just a fun team to watch and now he's. What was the term Pep Guardia once used? He's like a restant module to take a bit of a rest during pressing.

[Sam Lee]

Would he have used those words?

[Karl Anker]

I'm horribly in English? No, probably not. But even Grealish's best games in a City shirt and I think one of the best performance I've seen in play for Man City was against Real Madrid during one of your victorious times in the Champions League against Real Madrid. But that was for his off ball quality and I was just a relentless presser. So like the swashbuckling Maverick on the field is gone because he has to be a part of Guardiola's relentless automatons. Whereas tolerance for the swashbuckling Maverick off the field seems to be dwindling for a lot of people. And it's just a bit. Aww. He used to be more fun.

[Sam Lee]

Yeah, but look at the foot. Like the fun players they've got.

[Karl Anker]

It's not like you don't have fun players.

[Sam Lee]

They got Docu and Savino and all they do is dribble and nothing else.

[Karl Anker]

There you go.

[Sam Lee]

What do you mean? If there's no place for Grealish in the team because he's too creative or too free spirited, then what about the two wingers that play all the time.

[Karl Anker]

Dribble but do nothing else? Give me a little bit more.

[Sam Lee]

But no, but if it's all about flair.

[Karl Anker]

But give me a little bit more from Monday.

[Sam Lee]

If it's all about flair and he's too creative and they need to be automatons. Where are the automatons?

[Karl Anker]

They're all broken, aren't they?

[Sam Lee]

But he's playing two wingers. He's playing two wingers that just dribble with no end product.

[Unknown Host]

Oh, good.

[Karl Anker]

Keep it that way. Keep it that way for Sunday.

[Sam Lee]

Yeah, but let's not move the goalpost. Keep it that way for Sunday. Fine. That's my kind of concern for City going in. They don't have people who have got an end product. But you can't say that ol Grealish, he's definitely changed as a player. He's not as free spirited.

[Karl Anker]

He's not. And that's the overwhelming sentiment.

[Sam Lee]

When he's playing well and he's contributing to that Real Madrid game and that treble, it's not a problem.

[Karl Anker]

No.

[Sam Lee]

Why is he not played? Why has he not been playing well in the last two seasons? Why is it sad to watch him in the last two seasons? Because he's not available, because he's either injured or he's otherwise unavailable. Is that a creativity thing or are we just having a different discussion? The reason it's sad to see what's happened is not because of what happens on the pitch. If he'd have carried on playing like he did two seasons ago when they won the treble, he's still a different player. But if he's playing all the time, if he's fit, he's healthy, he's got the output, he's relentless and it's not much. It's off the ball.

[Karl Anker]

Yeah.

[Sam Lee]

Okay. He slows the game down. Do you want 100 million pound winger to slow the game down? No, people don't want that. But it's important. And it's not just that he can speed it up as well. He does still carry the ball well. He's a very intelligent player. He knows what to do. I've seen people say, not you obviously, but like, oh, he's too creative for pep. Like, you're too much of a free spirit. He's never like wandered out of position. Once he knows what he needs to do, he can do it. I just feel like it's a bit of a false debate sometimes. Like, oh, yeah, he's not playing well at the minute. Like, it is sad to see where he's gone from those kind of Villa days, early city days in the last two years. But is it because he's too creative? Is it because he's too much of a free spirit? No, it's because he's not available. If you want to see like creativity and like freedom in a pep team. Yeah. Okay. Like, you can't just like dribble from 70 yards to goal. You've got to wait. You gotta wait up on the corner of the box for the ball to come to you. But then when you do get it, dribble or you want. Nobody in the world, literally nobody in the world dribbles more than Doku Savinho. He's really good at nutmegs. Like, when he can, like score a goal, he'll be great. But like, that kind of thing is tolerated because it's like pep wants them to dribble, but obviously it's a kind of time and a place scenario.

[Karl Anker]

Listener. The. The sound you can hear right now is me eating humble pie. I've been thoroughly served by Sam.

[Sam Lee]

Yeah, that was really like set up for a volley. That's like one top. I'm not really passionate about anything else. I'd have got on the airframe.

[Karl Anker]

Speak about nutmeg. Sam has just absolutely done me there. Fair play. Fair play. Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

If the game is as end to end as that, then it should be a good one. Now, Sam, we've been going for a while now on this episode and we haven't talked about Erling Haaland. What is the latest situation with him and are we going to see him again soon or not?

[Sam Lee]

No, not soon. Start of the week, Guardiola was saying five to seven weeks and then it's like five to six. But regardless, by the time we get to that point, it's going to be the very end of the season, the domestic season anyway, obviously the FA cup final being penultimate weekend of the season, there's like, there's the potential for that to be a goal, isn't there? But at the same time, they need to get there first. And like I say, City's toothless forwards up against Nottingham Forest, you would want to be the fullback. But if you're like Murillo, if you're, if you're Milinkovic in the box, you go, I'm just going to head this way. I'm just going to kick it, I'm just going to kick it away. I might kick you as well and you're not going to like it. That's kind of how it is. So, yeah, he's going to be our five, six, seven weeks. He might be back for the Club World Cup. But look, if you ask any City fan, what's the most important thing between now and the end of the season, Finishing the top four or five, win the FA Cup. Club World Cup. You know, it's the first two, it's the domestic ones.

[Adam Leventhal]

This podcast is brought to you by Aura. Imagine waking up to find your bank account drained, bills for loans you never took out, a warrant for your arrest, all because someone stole your identity. Hackers aren't waiting. Why are you? That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Your personal data is a gold mine for hackers and Aura helps lock it down. Aura monitors the dark web, blocks data brokers from selling your information. Includes a VPN for private browsing and a password manager to secure your accounts before criminals break in. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked, all for [e-mail] safety. That's Aura.com safety to sign up and start protecting yourself and your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.

[Unknown Host]

There is some optimism. You know, we concentrated in the first half on all the doom and gloom around United, but. Or there should be some optimism because Ruben Amarim knows how to beat Manchester City this season, doesn't he?

[Karl Anker]

I was oddly confident about the derby a week and a half ago and then I got halfway through. The Nottingham Forest defeat went, oh yes, right. I remember United did turn the corner. However, there's still three or four problems that need to be addressed. Ruben Amren has previous for defeating Pep Guardio as Manchester City 41 victory when he was in charge of Sporting. And after well, before the game he says, please don't derive too many conclusions from this. And then we did it anyway because that's English media. And then after the game where he says Manchester United won't be able to play in the same way Sporting did, and then immediately after becomes Man United manager, loads of people went, why can't you play the same way? Because again, this is what we do. But the last minute, however you want to draw it up. Victory at the Etihad Stadium, I'd say is the highlight of Manchester United season so far. It was a victory that sort of magicked itself out of nowhere due to some brilliance from Amad.

[Sam Lee]

Well, well, an absolutely enormous mistake as well. But yeah, fair play to Amadi was very good.

[Karl Anker]

And unforced era made into a bigger error due to some brilliant playmaking skill for a mad. And then what we've seen since then is that Amin seems to have.

[Sam Lee]

A.

[Karl Anker]

Way of setting up Manchester United that suits playing some of the bigger teams. So victory on penalties of Arsenal in the FA Cup, a draw against Arsenal that might have been a win if Hind decided to hit the ball first time. A pretty good hard fought draw over Liverpool at Anfield as well. So I mean, very often there is the belief that when you play with wing backs, you play three at the back. You are setting yourself up to be a counter attacking team and you're setting yourself up to, to not be the protagonist of a football game, but to be the sort of counter attacking spoilers and that might play into things a little bit. But I absolutely think, or I've seen enough games now, that Amren definitely has a way of approaching some of these bigger fixtures that seems to suit this current group of players. So if United are to get result, Armin's probably gonna have a good idea of how to go about it. I'm pulling her face as I'm saying this. I'd be a lot more confident if Ahmad was fit.

[Unknown Host]

Yes. But that is an evidence based statement. So I'm gonna let you have it because you know, there have been those two victories. Take me into Pep's cranium, Sam. How will the hamsters be feeling in there ahead of this one? And what's gonna be going on in his head thinking, ugh, I cannot lose to him again.

[Sam Lee]

Yeah, definitely won't be thinking that for why is he thinking, look, it's always about a thousand million passes, isn't it? That's, that's the, that's the solution. Thousand million passes if you got. If you're going Away to a big team, thousand million passes. If they got a noisy crowd, if they've, you know, if they've got a big press, if they've got whatever. Even if, look, even if it's been United over the last few years, you know, when Ronaldo's been there, there's giving him the run around, it's just, get the ball, keep it, establish yourself in the game. And that's even more so when he's got kind of doubts about the team. It's like, okay, we just need. We just need to keep this ball. We need more men in the middle. And when they went to Bournemouth last weekend, they just didn't pick a winger as like John McKenzie from of TIFO fame pointed out. The way the Bournemouth press, it's not man to man until it's like, okay, now we can go. So City just got Edison to stand on the ball in like two yards out and I'll do Cruyff turns to bait them in and then it's, ah, but actually we've got loads of creative central players now to get the ball to. So it's like, will they go for that again? Not necessarily, because United aren't going to press in that same way. So he is going to cook something up, but I just think it's always going to revolve around just having the ball. But that Bournemouth game did show that you can pick the older guys or the more maligned guys and it's still be okay. They won a lot of battles and they won the match. De Bruyne didn't play well. He ran a lot, but he didn't play well. Foden didn't play well. And it's like, that's why I said right at the start, unsure, because City are much better than they were in December, but how much better before the international break, they drew against Brighton could have lost. They did lose against Forest and it's like I thought they were coming through it, but they haven't. So it's really hard, especially in the Derby, to kind of gauge where they are and therefore, like, what. But what they could even begin to do. But I'm sure they're going to want to make a thousand million passes.

[Karl Anker]

That was a really good elevator ride through Pep Guardiola's mind. There was even a bit where you like scratched your forehead, just like Pep.

[Sam Lee]

Does, just take a swig from a bottle of water.

[Karl Anker]

I think that's a really good observation. In that pre January transfer window, the other woman thought about this City team, was it's old. Guardiola historically likes having a smaller squad. He doesn't like it going past 17, 18 players, so he has more training time. But you've got an old squad, as in they're north of 30. They're also old in that they've got a lot of miles in the clock. But we can talk about Bernardo Silva. Okay. He's only 30 years of age. He's also played an astonishing amount of football.

[Sam Lee]

Yeah.

[Karl Anker]

Throughout his twenties, not just for Manchester City, but also for his country. He's made what. This is a City squad where. I mean, De Boren has made deep runs in the Champions League season after season after season. Bernardo's done it, Kunigan's done it. Right.

[Sam Lee]

The.

[Karl Anker]

There's this meme about how it's not really a function, but it's an unction because there's so many men in their early to mid-30s just hanging out. This is a. This is a man City team full of players that make a noise when they sit down. Yeah. So when City have been hurt this year, it's been through teams that are good at counter attack and also have legs, loads of running power. There's a. There's a. There's a statistic during the rounds, Mark Carries found it about runs made in behind and sort of the pre and post. And it's one of the very clear. Oh, that's where Marmush arrives in that the. The runs and behind for City, the first part of the season aren't that high. And then Omar arrives. It's like, oh, look, freshness, intent, brilliance. This City team is the very, very, very early pencil sketch of what Pep's going to build next. And I think there's an awareness of a lot of clubs, not just Manchester United, of now's the time to get your licks in. Like the way you beat City, the way Nottingham Forest had beaten City, the way Bournemouth have got result or done well against City this season, the way other teams have done well this season. You're not going to be able to do this in 2026. So now's the time to make hay because Guardiola will figure out something in there. I'm already looking at Nico Gonzalez and going, ooh, you're going to be a problem in a little bit, aren't you?

[Sam Lee]

Yeah, he's helped a lot in terms of those runs in behind. I do feel like they're just a lot more stable as well. But not like super stable.

[Karl Anker]

No.

[Sam Lee]

Like Nico Gonzalez, for example, he's really good at Reading the game. He's, oh, the danger. The ball's going to drop there, so I'll go get it. And he's really good at that. But then sometimes when he gets there, he's not strong enough to win it and it's like, oh, well, the problem's the same whether you've spotted the danger or not if you don't win the ball. But yeah, he's helped a lot. Like I say, they are more solid, but it's not like they're not prime City by any means.

[Karl Anker]

They will get there one proper summer pre season in the pep incubator and I'm sure Gonzalez will be a problem. I mean, we look back, Rodri didn't have the best first start in a Manchester City shirt as well. So, I mean, this is the time. United haven't done the double over city since the 1920 season and I imagine if they don't do it on Sunday, there might be a little bit of a little gap before they get to do it again. So make hay now while they're still a bit rocked.

[Unknown Host]

And Carl on United's week ahead. Obviously the, you know, they've sort of laid off in the league so they can concentrate on the Europa League campaign. That's been what they've been doing. I guess. I jest.

[Karl Anker]

The outside noise is this is Bill Bauer bust a little similar to Tottenham Hotspur in that the league position is going to be historically bad. Probably the numbers people say United are more likely to finish in the bottom half than they are to finish in the top half. And therefore, if you want to fix or restore your season and also get that sort of lucrative Champions League money that is so important to so many of these clubs now you're going to want to be all in on the Europa League. Now when Amarin is asked about this, are you all in on the Europa League? He does what every single manager does, which is play your cards close to your chest. Talk about the need to build momentum in every single possible game. And no, it's not actually putting all the chips in a one comb competition. But also, yeah, kind of maybe you should just go all in on Europa League competition. That said, you can't be a Manchester United manager if you take your foot off the gas for a derby. So this, this game will be treated with the utmost seriousness. The away leg in lyon on the 10th will be taken with the utmost seriousness, of course, as well. The game after that, when you're away against Newcastle, that one, I mean, that's painful. That's painful. One of the big things. When you go to Amarin press conferences, how long does it take for him to mention physicality? Because like Sam was just talked about Gonzalez there. You can talk about tactics, you can talk about this and this and this. You can talk about match reading ability. But if you are being able to just get shoved off the ball, there's not much you can do. And what we've seen, I mean a very clear example of United not having the requisite physicality is Anthony Lange's goal on Tuesday where he's just running coast to coast and Garnacho is trying to do something and Alaina's like, just get out of the way, mate. Just get out of the way. And most United defeats this season, you feel like pull away everything and pull away all the thread and whatnot. The underlying problem is this Manchester United team squad as a whole lacks physicality. They don't have running power, they don't have the intensity and athletic endurance in the same way that Nottingham Forest team has right now, in the same way that Bournemouth have right now, in the same way that Liverpool have. This is why this game's going to be quite fun, weird, interesting, because the City team has the tidy technicians of old who want to do a thousand million passes but they can't run in the same way you used to. But also you've got this Manchester United team and you got Casemiro. You can't run in the same way he used to. You've got Manuel guy who's trying to run but there's only so much space he can cover. You've got a player like Harry Maguire or Matteo select who can try and run. But if you make the spaces that got run a little bit too big. Oops a daisy. So you can do the Nottingham Forest thing on Sunday. Is the team most likely to win?

[Unknown Host]

I fear Sam, in terms of the importance of this game on the season, obviously, yes, bragging rights, etc, etc, but it's really important if Manchester City are going to be getting into the Champions League places because Newcastle are. They are breathing down their neck, aren't they? So what's your gut feeling on this? City just going to sort this out and it'll be fine towards the end of the season. Comfortably into the top five. Or is there still that lingering danger that this season that hasn't met expectations could be catastrophically bad and they might miss out on the Champions League?

[Sam Lee]

I still think they'll be all right, but I don't think it'd be comfortable. Especially without Haaland. Like I Just don't see how. I don't see where that many goals are coming from. Mahmouch, since he signed, Mahmush has got five goals and that's now joint third highest scorer in the league alongside Gvardiol. Foden's got seven and he got six of them. I think I'm right in saying in four games in January and then Harlan's top, we got 21. So like they need goals. One thing about the run in is the Optipower rankings. They say City got the easiest run in based on like fixed difficulty. But the thing about Newcastle and a lot of the other teams is they're playing each other. Like so many of the other teams that are trying to get fourth or fifth are playing each other. Like Newcastle Villa, Newcastle, Brighton, Chelsea, Newcastle, things, things like that. Like the other teams have a harder run in. And Cities, while it's not easy and certainly not easy given their own kind of relative instability and lack of Haaland coupled with the fact that you know to get fourth you don't have to be perfect, to get fifth you certainly don't have to be perfect. I do still feel they'll be all right.

[Karl Anker]

Sam, can I ask when Haaland is in Man City's team, we know City are going to try and attack via feeding Haaland, which very sensible thing. Without him we talk about 1000 million passes. Could that confuse United more because there's the opportunity for a false ninefield forward and opportunity for Mahmoud to be the striker. Does it just vary up the way City? Can I?

[Sam Lee]

Yeah, it does. It does vary. I mean to be fair, you can have a thousand million passes with Haaland in the team as well. And even when Haaland's been fit, I've thought sometimes it's like, you know, like a false nine would really help. But you need like. I know we're going back a long way, but Barca's fault when they had like Messi in the middle and he was dropping off, it's like they had that David Villa and Pedro running in behind. Like there's, there's the goals, that's where they're coming from. But it's like you put Docu through on goal and Savinho, the classic kind of Savino threw on goal. He's going to try and dummy it and he might fall over, which is what he did the other night.

[Karl Anker]

This is me. I'm gonna, I'm. I'm gonna undraft Savinho for this week. Based on what you've just told me. Thank you.

[Sam Lee]

Yeah, yeah. You know, look, it's a derby. Anything can happen. That's our get out of jail card on these podcasts, isn't it? Like preview podcasts, we say all this stuff and then the complete opposite happens to get out. Well, it's a derby.

[Unknown Host]

Well, let's rubber stamp that by getting your prediction, however useless it's going to be.

[Sam Lee]

Sam, I'm just about going to go with Citi's relative stability and as long as they don't get the, you know, the Mike Tyson punch in the mouth and the plan goes out the window, I'm gonna back that to be enough. Okay.

[Unknown Host]

Carl.

[Karl Anker]

Yeah, I was saying that this is not going to be comfortable at all. I think the team that scores first is probably going to be the team that wins it.

[Sam Lee]

Yeah, yeah.

[Karl Anker]

Because both these teams, they just look so browbeat when they concede. However, I think home crowds, anything can happen in derby. The way Emoryn can set up in the bigger teams. I'm going to go, this is going to be a really. This is going to be one of the worst 21 victories you'll see this season. But. And I think United are going to do it.

[Unknown Host]

Carl. Sam, enjoy the derby.

[Sam Lee]

Yeah.

[Unknown Host]

If you can.

[Karl Anker]

I won't.

[Unknown Host]

And thanks very much for coming on, but thanks.

[Sam Lee]

Cheers, guys.

[Unknown Host]

Okay, so we're just going to take a little bit of a tour around some of our club podcasts on the Athletic FC Chelsea and Spurs. They were in action at Stamford Bridge on Thursday night. Enzo Fernandez, the difference maker for Chelsea. His goal ensuring that 1 nil win. And let's check in with how the mood is on our spurs podcast. View from the lane after the defeat that saw Ange Postecoglou pick a fight with the spurs fans.

[Unknown Guest]

From where I was sat. And I wasn't the only per. I mean I wasn't the only person with this view of it and I certainly wasn't the only person to reach this interpretation. I thought it was really, really clear to me that he was saying to the fans, not so smart now, are you? They'd mocked his, his substitution. Sar had then scored a great goal and he was saying, well, you know, maybe it's, maybe you guys think it's easy from up in the stands, but actually I'm the one making the decisions. Postecoglou has disputed that interpretation in his post match press conference and post match media duties. But that is how I read it at the time.

[Sam Lee]

I didn't think it was a very convincing defence that he was just Trying to get them to enjoy the equalizer.

[Karl Anker]

I don't completely buy that defence because I've seen him at other games this season sort of stare into the away end as if he's trying to make some sort of strange point. The fan base are basically saying, we don't believe your excuse. We think that you've purposefully tried to mug us off and it's backfired. Even if Postecoglou didn't mean that with his gesture, it's how the majority of people have interpreted it.

[Sam Lee]

I would have had more respect if he just said, yeah, I want to shut up. I'm in charge here until. Until they literally take my name off the car park, I'm in charge. And you know, if he'd had a.

[Unknown Guest]

Laugh about it, I mean, it wouldn't have like made up for the 16 league defeats this season. But if he'd come out and said, yeah, I was having a laugh with the fans, you know, got a little bit emotional, it was all men in good spirits, I didn't offend anyone and.

[Sam Lee]

We'Re grown ups, I think.

[Unknown Guest]

I like to think people would have accepted that to an extent. But I just think the whole this defense, which I don't think stands up to any scrutiny at all for a number of reasons. Like one, if he was g up the crowd, he would have done the gesture that means g ing up the crowd, which is when you wave your hands at the end, like literally everybody knows what that is. That is not what he did. If he didn't mean this as a dig on the fans, maybe he would have gone over to the fans after the game and cut them, which he didn't do. He stood sheepishly in the middle of the pitch, let the players go over and get shouted at by the fans while he hung back. If he was, as he says, impervious to criticism, then he would have ignored a lot of the criticism. But Costecoglou likes to describe himself as being some, you know, Mr. Water of a Duck's back. It doesn't bother me. I love the difficult moments, that kind of stuff. Countless number of times this season, home games, away games, where clearly the abuse and the barbs get to him and, you know, that's totally fine. It's obviously being a manager is tough. Of course, maybe he should not try to portray himself as Mr. Thick Skinned when the evidence suggests the opposite. I don't think anybody, everybody in the room in the press conference bought the defense. I don't think any spurs fans buy the defense.

[Unknown Host]

Chelsea face Brentford Next, let's check in with Liam Toomey on straight out of Cobham ahead of the final run of fixtures.

[H]

Yes, Chelsea have quite a good record at the G Tech against Brentford, and Brentford have had their own struggles, but they've also had plenty of success against Chelsea in the last couple of years. And they play a slightly unorthodox style that can be a bit awkward. So that's got risk. And Ipswich have already shown they could beat Chelsea this season. That's just the Premier League. And I think that that's why to go back to Maresca canceling the day off after losing to the reserves, I think that's why a sense of urgency is required. Chelsea do not have momentum in this top five race and they have a lot of other teams that could potentially overtake them in the next nine games if they're not at their best. So they not only need Nicholas Jackson, Noni Madueke, Romeo Lavia back, they need them back and close to the best versions of themselves. And they need Cole Palmer to rediscover his rhythm and maybe stop overthinking things and second guessing himself in a way that he seemed to do in the last few weeks. And they need a bit more stability defensively than they've had.

[Unknown Host]

And we have to talk about Gabriel going off with a hamstring injury for Arsenal during that 21 win over Fulham and that's going to see him miss the remainder of the season. Obviously not what Arsenal fans want to hear ahead of their Champions League quarter final against Real Madrid the first leg next week. Before that, Mikel Arteta's side travelled to Goodison to face Everton on Saturday. Let's check in with James McNicholas, Ian Stone and Adrian Clarke on Handbrake Off.

[Sam Lee]

Listen, I want Arsenal to win every game. Don't get me wrong, the result is always paramount. But right now I am thinking, please, no more injuries. Yeah, that's where I am. I know, yeah. Who'd you wrap in cotton more then James? Come on. No, come on. No chance.

[Unknown Guest]

You know what, the goalkeeper for one.

[Unknown Host]

Absolutely the goalkeeper.

[Karl Anker]

Any defenders that are left, he'll play David Ryan.

[Sam Lee]

I. I mean the one that you could debate is maybe would be Saliba.

[Karl Anker]

If we had alternatives.

[Sam Lee]

You know, if Gabriel is out, you. You might say protect Saliba, but we don't have anyone else. We've lost four players from the defensive line and, and actually in terms of wrapping people in cotton wool, it might be that they look at someone like.

[Karl Anker]

Julian Timber and say if there's any.

[Sam Lee]

Doubt sit him down because we've got Vinicius Jr. On that flank on Tuesday night. Timber won't play, but outside of that, what else can we do really?

[Karl Anker]

I mean, it's a tough game.

[Sam Lee]

Everton's a really tough game and you don't want to be losing, you want to be getting a result there, in my opinion. So I think the team that kind of almost finished that, that game bar in Saka maybe might might be the one that starts.

[Unknown Host]

So that's all we've got time for. Do hope you've enjoyed the show. Plenty more on offer across the Athletic FC and Quick word thank you to everyone that sent messages and listened to our special podcast episode, which was a World cup divided Trump and 2026. So if you want to check that out over the weekend, that's still available for you. Have a great weekend everyone, and we'll check in once again on Monday.

[Unknown Outro Voice]

You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroot and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Ailey Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

[Sam Lee]

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[Karl Anker]

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[Sam Lee]

Acast Powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hey guys, we have an exciting announcement about our podcast.

[Unknown Host]

For the past seven years, the Holderness.

[Karl Anker]

Family Podcast has been the most favorite thing we do.

[Unknown Host]

We love getting to talk to experts.

[Sam Lee]

We love having meaningful conversations just the two of us. And we also love hearing from from you.

[Adam Leventhal]

But the thing we love most is.

[Karl Anker]

Being a place where you can laugh.

[Sam Lee]

A lot has changed in the last seven years and we feel very lucky that our audience is growing older with us.

[Adam Leventhal]

So in the spirit of that, we.

[Unknown Host]

Are relaunching our podcast.

[Karl Anker]

We are excited to introduce Laugh Lines.

[Unknown Host]

With Kim and Penn Holderness.

[Sam Lee]

The Laugh Lines podcast will be all.

[Unknown Host]

About aging together better and also being.

[Karl Anker]

Able to laugh about getting older.

[Unknown Host]

We hope you'll join us. Search Laughline with Kim and Pen Holderness.

[Adam Leventhal]

New episodes every Tuesday.

[Sam Lee]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.