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- [00:01]
Adam Levantal
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- [01:57]
John McKenzie
ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.
- [02:01]
Tim Spears
Here's a show that we recommend.
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John McKenzie
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- [02:19]
Adam Levantal
Comedians getting nostalgic and asking that nagging question.
- [02:22]
John McKenzie
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- [02:46]
Tim Spears
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- [03:03]
Adam Levantal
Hi there, I'm Adam Levantal. Welcome to the preview on the Athletic fc going deep on the biggest game of the week and getting you ready for all of the Premier League action? Our main focus this week is. Is, of course, Manchester City against Arsenal on Sunday. Joining me is Tim Spears and John McKenzie. Tim, what's been your highlight of the week? Apart from sitting here?
- [03:34]
Tim Spears
I was going to say it's. It's what's about to happen. But the second highlight, I've been on sort of Champions League duty this week. We do like a bit of a briefing roundup on the Athletic. Of all the Knights action. And, yeah, it was good fun. I mean, Tuesday night was insane because, yeah, you know, your job is to kind of sum up what happened. And there were 28 goals in eight games and a 92 win and some amazing storylines and incredible goals. Debast for Sporting hit my favourite goal of the week. De Blast from De Bast.
- [04:07]
John McKenzie
Very good, very good.
- [04:08]
Tim Spears
Put in the article. You can read that on the Athletic. So, yeah, I quite enjoy the new format, I think. I think it's good in the Champions League. I think it's going to peter out with too many games and there'll be lots of irrelevant stuff at the end. But I like it for now. I think it opens things up.
- [04:20]
Adam Levantal
Same page.
- [04:21]
John McKenzie
Yeah. I mean, I think we all like new things, so at the moment we're quite positive. I think the only thing, the criticism I have is that it sort of devalues, like winning and drawing. I don't think anyone sort of knows what a win or a draw is worth. So City drawing with Inter.
- [04:39]
Tim Spears
I think there is a way that.
- [04:40]
John McKenzie
You can work that out in terms of. Right now, you look at the table and it's like it's 36. Six teams in a. In a. What does it mean? And. And you look at it and you're like, is this. Is this good or bad? I mean, you know, Celtic are second that they're not going to finish there, are they? And you know, the teams that have drawn that you would expect to have won mid table. We're not going to know what the table means until quite late on. And so it just feels like these.
- [05:01]
Tim Spears
Are classic reviewer talk. This is, you know, he likes data to. To get into, but one game is just not enough for this guy.
- [05:07]
John McKenzie
Even. Even, I think in the last game week. So in game week eight is going to be. We're going to have a table of 36 teams and there's going to be a whole host of games and all of those positions are going to move around as well. Right.
- [05:18]
Tim Spears
So it's going to be carnage.
- [05:19]
John McKenzie
It's going to be absolutely Mental carnage.
- [05:21]
Tim Spears
That last weekend, last week.
- [05:22]
Adam Levantal
Okay, so Tim's embracing the carnage of the Champions League. You want something a little bit more straightforward.
- [05:28]
John McKenzie
I like it. I just don't know what it means at all.
- [05:30]
Adam Levantal
I have something. I don't know what it means. I have something for you. Let's concentrate on the Premier League, shall we? Okay. And let's just take you through the fixtures for this week. Eight two split over the two day Saturday and Sunday. Saturday's early game is West Ham against Chelsea. That's 12:30 UK, 7:30 Eastern. Then we've got 6, 3 o'clock or 10ams, Villa, Wolves, Fulham, Newcastle, Southampton, Ipswich, Tottenham, Brenford, Leicester, Everton, Liverpool, Bournemouth. And then the 5:30 or 12:30 is palace against United. Sunday we've got Brighton, Nottingham Forest at 2pm over here, 9am in the States eastern. And then it is Manchester City against Arsenal at 4:30 or 11:30. And we've got loads to come on all of the games and we'll have plenty of expert analysis from the guys in the studio and across the Athletic FC podcasts as well. So it is Manchester City in first against Arsenal in second on Sunday. Haaland just bumps his way past Pinnock through on goal.
- [06:39]
John McKenzie
And when that happens there is never.
- [06:41]
Adam Levantal
Any doubt it's goal scoring on another level from the man of the moment.
- [06:47]
John McKenzie
Erling Haaland in by Saka Gabriel.
- [06:56]
Tim Spears
For Arsenal at Spurs. A monster leap on a monster day in North London.
- [07:06]
Adam Levantal
So last season it was one nil, Arsenal at the Emirates with a late winner from Martinelli. Then nil nil at the Etihad. So four points for Arsenal but City still won the league by two points. And City's lead right now over Arsenal after four games is also two points. Arsenal one of only three teams to beat Manchester City last season. And yes, we are only five games in Tim, but it is really important with that context in mind for them to at least make a mark and ensure that it doesn't become a five point gap.
- [07:38]
Tim Spears
Yeah, I didn't realise till you just said that they are already the top two. I pay like John pay a little attention to the early league tables. But yeah, it's set up, you know, really nicely and I guess from an Arsenal point of view it's important not to lose. Yeah, but it's also important, I think Artesa will want to see like another sort of step in their evolution. You know, if you look at the last two visits they've had to the Etihad in the league, they took that thrash in A couple of years ago, was it 41 when long ball City destroyed them and the golfing teams just was so evident at that point. And then last year you could probably still see the gulf between the team because of the way that Arsenal approached it. Basically paying for a nil. Nil. But there was also title states, as John might put it, at the time when a point was good enough to keep them in charge of the title race. Obviously it was that Villa game that ultimately cost them. So, yeah, this year, you know, can they take City on? I think they probably can, but I don't think they will. I think their approach will be really interesting. But we've seen a bit of a blueprint from Arsenal in recent weeks that's evolved over quite a few years now and they're really perfecting this sort of defensive steel. It's very impressive. And then you saw how Inter could have beaten City in the week and probably should have beaten City in the week with again, a really good low block and some excellent counter attacking. So I'm really looking forward to it. It's becoming a bit of a sort of a traditional sort of title rivalry now. This is sort of the third season in a row that we're expecting them to challenge each other for the title and it's a sort of a, you know. But it's still Master V Apprentice in terms of the manager and in terms of the teams. Until we see more from Arsenal in terms of taking City on, let's talk.
- [09:14]
Adam Levantal
About Arsenal's approach because obviously preparation for such a big game is at a premium this week with obviously the Champions League game on Thursday away from home. How will the game plan differ against Manchester City than it may have been against Tottenham in the North London Derby and then Atalanta?
- [09:33]
John McKenzie
Well, I think we should mention that spurs are missing a lot of particularly midfielders. Every time I talk about Arsenal recently, I've been upbraided by people in the comments for not clarifying that Arsenal are in fact missing players so they wouldn't choose to defend maybe quite so extensively as they have done in recent weeks. So that's the context. They're missing Martin Erdogan through injury, they're missing Mikel Mourinho through injury and that is affecting the kind of football that they can play. In terms of what we saw from the North London Derby, we saw a team who were happy to spend long spells without the ball, particularly in the first 30 minutes. I thought spurs were able to build through and it meant that Arsenal was sitting in quite a low block at times. And clearly by the end of the first half Arteta wasn't happy with that. He didn't want to just allow spurs to have the ball and try and break them down. Although they did a very good job of not really causing any problems for themselves. Arsenal in that low block situation. And so they did start pressing up a little bit higher in the second half of the first half, if that's not too confusing. A phrasing against Atalanta was slightly different, slightly more interesting because Atalanta are just a different kettle of fish. So they're very, very man oriented out of possession. And the way that you play against teams that are man oriented is that you try and introduce as much flexibility as possible. So we saw a lot of flexibility in Arsenal's build up. So just players moving out of the positions you might expect them in and players filling in for them. Whether or not we're going to see that from Arsenal going forward, I don't know. Like I say, the context was Atalanta very man to man and if in those scenarios you want to move around a lot because it just pulls that structure around. But I suspect what we'll see against City will be more similar to the North London Derby. Setting up to not give anything away, try and maximize your effic efficiency from set pieces and then hitting on the break. And I think it suits Arsenal quite nicely that kind of play. We know that they're pretty much in their out of possession first era. They, they want to make sure they don't give away chances to give themselves a platform to, to generate chances from and, and then in, as we saw in the North London Derby, all you need to do is make sure you take your chance when it comes along and you, you win the game one nil. So it will be very touchy. It will be very. I would rather draw than lose this game because it's a six point swing, right? Either way, like you say, if, if Arsenal do lose, it's five points already on City and it's, you know, you already start thinking, well, is that, is that them out of the race? And yeah, Guardiola would be happy to take a draw and stay ahead of Arsenal even if it means other teams catch you up. So yeah, it's the reality of these sort of techy title race fixtures, I think.
- [12:02]
Adam Levantal
Yeah, the fact that it is so early in the season you've got so much more time, you think to make it up. But it is obviously worth remembering the fact that City do not lose games. Obviously Arsenal didn't lose many games last season either, but City only losing three. Let's talk about Erling Haaland. Nine goals so far in the Premier League. At this stage of last season, he only had six. So he's, as we know, going along great guns. Didn't score against Inter, didn't score against Arsenal last season in two clean sheets. I almost feel a little bit silly saying this because it's sort of doing a disservice to the rest of the man City side. But if you, if you stop Haaland, do you stop City?
- [12:43]
Tim Spears
I guess the point is to stop the supply line, isn't it? He's not going to. What, did he touch the ball 14 times in the week against Inter? My favourite stat of the season so far is that he's scored more goals than any other Premier League team. Yeah, it's fantastic, isn't it? So, yeah, if anyone can stop him, as Arsenal have proved, it can be them. They've conceded one goal so far, Arsenal, from five matches, despite having a difficult start. You know, they played Villa, Brighton Spurs, Atalanta away. Still only conceded one goal. So, yeah, obviously the key is going to be stopping that supply line, those balls over the top that he's scored a couple of goals from this season. You wouldn't expect Arsenal to sort of fall victim to that. But those cutbacks and crosses again, they defend so well as a unit and they restrict space so effectively that if anyone can stop them, it's Arsenal. I'm really sort of warming to Haaland as a sort of a character and a person, though I think he might be my favorite Premier League player at the moment. Obviously for the numbers, it's just been like, wow, eyes wide open. This guy's astonishing. But he's become in quite likable, I think. Do you remember when he was at Dortmund and he would just give those sort of one word interviews and it was like, this guy's a bit aloof and maybe he's a bit of an arrogant so and so. But now he's like, he's quite cheeky now, I think, and he's. His little skirmishes with defenders and, you know, he's quite funny. I could see him having sort of his own show at some point in the film.
- [13:59]
Adam Levantal
He looks very happy in his own skin, doesn't he? And it's showing in his performances.
- [14:02]
John McKenzie
And nothing will be. It's the Louvre. Just great, great content in terms of.
- [14:10]
Adam Levantal
City and their potential weaknesses. And it's all very, very sort of hypothetical, really. They've Gone behind early in their two Premier League games at home so far this season. Is that something that the Arsenal you know, should be targeting, sort of being slow off the mark and things like that, or is that just potentially, you know, if you, if you then go all in, all in early, you're going to leave something open that City can exploit.
- [14:36]
John McKenzie
Yeah, I mean we've already talked about in the last few games, Arsenal have had to play a way that they wouldn't ideally want to play, which is sitting a bit deeper and then trying to hit on the break one one because they went a man down against Brighton and then obviously the North London Derby, they didn't have the personnel to do other things. So I think that actually suits them in a lot of ways. I think they have the personnel to do that. I think Kai Havertz has been fantastic this season as a hold up striker, often having to feed off scraps and, you know, isn't the kind of striker that you expect a team like Arsenal to have. Then you've got Bukaya Sacco and to a lesser extent Martinelli. But both of them are going to operate really well in those kind of situations. We know that Manchester City are set up to try and squeeze opponents into their final third, slowly break them down over time and then defend those big spaces behind them. But Arsenal are going to be able to play in a way that actually really suits them to take the, to take those sorts of moments by the scruff of their neck. So it's a sort of funny situation because I feel as though to a degree Arsenal actually suit playing this kind of underdog football at the moment. They might not want to play that in most games because of circumstances. They can go out now and play in that way. And those are the sorts of teams that hurt City. So yeah, I think that in many respects it's a game that will suit them and the way that they're playing. I think we saw in the North London Derby that Arsenal came out in a sort of 4, 4, 2 shape, 4, 2, 4 shape. I think that they'll do that again. They'll bring in Rice for Jorginho, so they'll have Rice and Partey in the midfield. And yeah, he's. We've talked about this seemingly every week last season, but he's just one, he's the best defensive player in that capacity in that part of the pitch. You put him in front of that defence and they're even more solid. So he just covers large spaces really well. Whether or not he'll have to Be doing that against Man City is a different matter. They'll probably spend a lot of time in their sort of 442-block-shape. But the big question is whether or not Arsenal, sorry, City, are able to just control the game and just cut off any of those sorts of dangerous counter attacks and actually pick up their chances where they come. But I think it'd be fascinating from that point of view because you don't often see really elite sides playing that low block encounter against City, with the exception of the two teams they've had in a row now.
- [16:50]
Tim Spears
I think John makes a really good point there about Arsenal sort of being so effective in the underdog style. I don't worry about them for this game. And spurs away, they've gone and won pretty much any big team that can. They can take a point off or be. It's the games against West Ham at home, like last season or Fulham, whoever else. It's those games come winter time that are tight, where I think they're still lacking a goalscorer to get them out of trouble, where they might come up short. But in terms of these big games, you know, they're right there. I don't worry about them at all.
- [17:21]
Adam Levantal
Let's get a quick take from Amy Lawrence, who was in Bergamo for the nil, nil draw against Atalanta on Thursday evening, where Arsenal were very, very thankful to one man in particular.
- [17:32]
Tim Spears
Raya's double save. Extraordinary. He stopped the penalty, diving one way and then agile, fantastic response to spring up and go the other way to scoop out the header on the rebound.
- [17:48]
Adam Levantal
And it's made for a very useful.
- [17:52]
Tim Spears
Away point in a difficult game, in a difficult week.
- [17:55]
Adam Levantal
Arsenal will be hoping that this is.
- [17:57]
Tim Spears
The second of three clean sheets this week. Another one would do nicely on the weekend.
- [18:03]
Adam Levantal
So it was a big, big save from David R. Double save, only one conceded so far this season for Arsenal, and that was against Brighton when they were down to 10 men. And he stepped up a number of times, you know, in. In normal situations, just in the normal flow of games. David Ryan, where do you rank him? And I don't know if you like rankings or not, but just humor me, but where do you rank him in terms of. Of Premier League goalkeepers at the moment?
- [18:28]
John McKenzie
I mean, I don't do rankings. I also don't do goalkeepers. So this is. Whether or not this is going to be insightful in any way? I've. I have no idea. But yeah, I mean, I think I still would probably have someone like Alisson as the. As the top Goalkeeper.
- [18:42]
Adam Levantal
So what does Alisson have that Raya doesn't?
- [18:44]
John McKenzie
I was saying this to my friends the other day. I've never seen someone say the word karma, karma as a goalkeeper and look less calm than I have. David Raya. I saw him playing quite regularly at Brentford and he does seem to be, he does seem to have a little bit of a potential for flappiness now since he's been at Arsenal. Not at all.
- [19:04]
Adam Levantal
Well, he's evolved, hasn't he? He's evolved after that first season when he had, you know, off the field battles with, with Ramsdale, had to establish himself. He looks alike with Haaland at the moment.
- [19:15]
John McKenzie
He looks unbeatable and he's had like the double save against Villa, the double save against Atalanta. And he's certainly, I think, actually carrying Arsenal's defense quite a bit at the moment because we can talk all we want about them only conceding one goal. They should have conceded more according to the underlying numbers and obviously that, you know, that that fluctuates. And teams who defend better, lower than their underlying numbers are usually often carried by a good goalkeeper. I guess the question for me is whether or not it's going to be consistent. What happens when there is inevitably a moment where there's a wobble. How does he come through that? But yeah, I mean, it's worked out perfectly for Arsenal, despite the fact that it all kind of came out of this context of like we're going to rotate goalkeepers. Actually they were just improving their goalkeeper and at the moment it's looking fantastic for them.
- [19:59]
Tim Spears
Yeah.
- [20:00]
Adam Levantal
Where does Rao rank for you then?
- [20:02]
Tim Spears
The most informed keeper, I think. But he's got a bit more to do to prove he's the best in the league. He's not up there with your Alissons, your Edisons, your Sam Johnstons. The real cream of the crop.
- [20:13]
Adam Levantal
Yes, quite.
- [20:22]
Tim Spears
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Adam Levantal
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- [21:42]
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- [22:33]
Adam Levantal
Jurrien Timbers made a big difference for Arsenal at left back. I know it's a bit of a cliche, but it's like a new signing because he wasn't around. But it's plugged some doubts at left back that they did have in terms of a potential weakness there.
- [22:47]
Tim Spears
Yeah, I mean they used like what, three or four players there last year. Kivior was sort of first choice left back a crucial stage of the season last year, so that was an obvious weakness for them to sort of pinpoint. And yeah, I've got to say the fact that he's recovered from this horrific injury and sort of seamlessly slotted into the best defence in the world as Jon would say. But yeah, I think it was his first 90 minutes last weekend, so there's probably still more to come from him. But he looks great, he's great in 1v1s. He's very competitive, he's technically sound and seems to have already sort of struck Up a good partnership with Gabriel, not leaving him exposed, which is important. So yeah, their defense is just, I mean, you know, it's just an absolute machine.
- [23:33]
Adam Levantal
Manchester City got an extra day's rest after their nil nil draw against Inter Milan. Here's our City writer Sam Lee. I thought that was a pretty good game between two very good teams. Kind of contrasting styles.
- [23:47]
Tim Spears
Probably more contrasting styles here than Wilson. See at the weekend when Arsenal come.
- [23:53]
Adam Levantal
To the eti and to be honest, I think everybody has still got March's stink fest in mind. The nil nil here between City and Arsenal. When Arsenal were happy to sit in, they didn't do too much counterattacking obviously with this being nil nil as well, it doesn't seem to bode particularly well. There was the promise of goals here.
- [24:11]
Tim Spears
He obviously had a few chances at the end.
- [24:14]
Adam Levantal
Inter definitely had two breakaways. This should have been ended in a goal. Will Arsenal carry that kind of threat this time? Will like here it actually matter. Obviously it feels like an important game here because Inter and City are big teams but obviously there's so many games in this group stage of the Champions League it's probably not going to matter too much. And as we saw with Arsenal beating City early last season, that didn't really matter either. But that said, if you are thinking of watching the game, please do just maybe don't have your expectations especially high but I'll be here and I'll probably enjoy it. So Sam's not feeling particularly enthusiastic especially considering both sides have had a 00 and then there was a 00 last season as well. It doesn't necessarily, you know, add up that yeah we've had two zero zeros there was a nil nil last time and it's going to be the same again, does it?
- [25:03]
Tim Spears
No, of course not. But. But if Arsenal are are of the mindset to go and spoil this game then you know they're the most competent team in probably Europe have been able to need an early City goal. Probably it'd be great to have a bit of a ding dong. Wouldn't probably needs an early City goal for that to happen. You really don't want a kind of a Chelsea Liverpool 2006 sort of scenario every time these two teams play each other but the odds favorite with these sort of recent binary scorelines. But then it will be if Arsenal go there and open up and get beat three zero we'll be like that's absolutely ridiculous what you're doing. They're not better than City yet. I don't think. I think Arsenal are improving year on year, but City aren't. City haven't weakened for me, so I can't see Arteta going there with an open game plan and looking to take City out of their own game. It's just not going to happen. So they're going to try and spoil the game.
- [25:53]
John McKenzie
I think you can read the recent City Arsenal matchups out of that 4:1 loss that you mentioned before at the Emirates at the end of 22, 23, because I think they went there, they pressed high, they went to take the game to City and they got absolutely munched off it. So as a result, the games that have followed that have just had that in mind. That's the nightmare that sits at the back of Arteta's head. So I think he's always going to come to this game and say, we want a nil, nil draw. We'll take a set piece, win like we did in the North London Derby. He's going to do that all day long because what else do you do if they lose that game? They're already behind in the race where they would want to be. I think. So, yeah. It's a tough one.
- [26:37]
Adam Levantal
The fact that Brentford had joy early against City. Inter have also. They had a few moments trying to hit City on the counter. Is there any sort of weakness defensively for City that Arsenal will be looking at in particular or not really.
- [26:52]
John McKenzie
I mean, as we've said, a City are always going to have a weakness from counter attacks. That's the way they set up. That's the gamble that they're happy to take. They're going to force the opponent as far away from their own goal as possible and have big spaces to defend. The idea is that they've got the players and the tactics to then be able to make sure that those issues aren't that bad. And we go back to the Inter game, right? A lot of people saying, oh, you know, Inter should have scored a few goals in that game. They put up less than a single expected goal, which again, like some of those scenarios, did look quite dangerous, but actually the shots that were taken weren't particularly bad. If you look at the underlying numbers for that game, it suggests that City should have won quite comfortably. So it's one of those ones where I think it looks terrifying a lot of the time and a lot of people don't understand why they're so happy to allow those spaces to open out. But the reason why they win leagues year on year is because if you Play that kind of game 10 times, you win eight of them, you win nine of them. And there's the occasional loss to a Crystal palace every once in a while or a team that you might be surprised to see them losing to. But it's the consistency of those kind of games that make them so dangerous. So, yes, there's always the possibility that Man City can lose this kind of game. Arsenal, as we said, perfectly set up to be able to cause some problems from this game. But at the same time, as we said, that was also the case last season and Arteta didn't even want to risk. You know, if you get caught on the counter yourself off the back of one of your own counter attacks, then again, you're in the same problem. And from that point on, you know, if Arsenal go 1 nil up, you'd expect them to just be able to control the game out. So, yeah, I think this is why I find these kind of games quite fun, because it's so tense and it's, you know, one mistake made can lead to the game going one way or the other. Most people want to see goals, so I understand that it won't go down very well if that's the case. But, yeah, these are the games that determine the way that the league is going.
- [28:50]
Adam Levantal
If you're not watching on YouTube, John does look genuinely excited. You're like a sort of a tactics minion. Just sort of looking very, very excited about this game. I love it. It's good to see. Just a quick word on Rodri. It seems as if looking at the minutes, the fact that he started against Inter, they've ramped this up and you would expect him to slot in and start.
- [29:10]
Tim Spears
Yeah, absolutely. It's not like he's been injured. He's just starting his season slightly later because he won the Euros with Spain. Yeah. I guess the alternative was to run him into the ground from August or whatever onwards. So, yeah, we don't want that. I thought he spoke really well, actually, on the potential strike action. And this is a factor in the game, obviously, with the schedules. Man City have got this ridiculous run now where they play Watford on Tuesday and then Newcastle away Saturday morning, then Sloven Bratislava away the following Tuesday. But Arsenal are at a huge disadvantage here because they played it Thursday night away in Italy and Man City played a night before at home. I think that's genuinely going to be a really big factor.
- [29:48]
Adam Levantal
Right, let's get your predictions quickly. John, two numbers. What's the score going to be?
- [29:53]
John McKenzie
Manchester city will win 2 nil.
- [29:57]
Adam Levantal
Thank you, Tim.
- [29:58]
Tim Spears
Yeah, if they both had a clear game week, I think Arsenal would. I would fancy Arsenal to win. But I do think that extra day is going to be crucial and it'll be one all.
- [30:07]
Adam Levantal
Oh, okay. We shall see.
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John McKenzie
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You could recline in a comfy chair to catch up on your favorite show.
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Or order a craft cocktail at the bar. Whatever you're in the mood for, find.
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- [32:14]
Adam Levantal
Right, let's get stuck into some of the other games now. Two big games down at the bottom of the Premier League, both Saturday afternoon. Leicester in 15th, two points from four against bottom of the lot Everton. No points from four back to back three two defeats after two nil leads. It's well worth reading Paddy Boylan's article. Just trying to unpack the footballing situation at Everton at the moment, Tim, in terms of, you know, what's happening to them on the pitch. Do you see them being able to turn these things around? Do you see the fact that yes, they are going 2 nil up in games as something to cling on to? It should be, it should somewhere in their sort of factoring for games. Well, look, we get 2 nil up in games against decent sides, Bournemouth and Aston Villa. We just need to just tinker the bit afterwards.
- [33:06]
Tim Spears
Yeah, absolutely. Of course they're not a team renowned for scoring goals but they're showing themselves to be capable of that. Calvert Lewin looks almost like himself to me, which I think is really promising. Don't really see anyone else scoring many goals for them. So I guess the issue for Everton is it's become a mental fragility issue and we're only in September but then I guess they've got plenty of time to sort it out. Right.
- [33:28]
Adam Levantal
Well traditionally and Paddy points it out that they, they have slow starts, they rebuild before Christmas, get themselves pretty much sorted, then they sort of peak and trough towards the rest of the season. The other big game down at the bottom, second bottom. Southampton who beat Everton in the Carabao Cup. Southampton up against ipswich. They're in 17th. Two points from four back to back draws against Fulham and Brighton. I've been pretty impressed with Ipswich. The fact that they have started to just pick up points. They seem to be the team that you go actually they might be all right.
- [34:00]
John McKenzie
Yeah. In our preview stuff for the Premier League I had Ipswich finishing highest out of the three promoted sides because my argument was that they're sort of able to play their style of football as it was in the championship in the Premier League. And I think that goes a long way towards. Yeah, okay, maybe it doesn't mean that they're necessarily going to stay up, but they're going to be better placed than a team maybe like south. I mean the conversation about Southampton is like, can you play football like this?
- [34:26]
Adam Levantal
It's great to see these two styles.
- [34:28]
John McKenzie
Yeah, absolutely. So I, I think that, yeah, that probably makes Ipswich the, the favorites in this one. And I mean Ipswich finished second in, in the championship and Southampton had to go through in the playoffs. So I guess off the basis of, of that fact that you would expect Ipswich to be the slight favorites here. So yeah, it's going to be a, it's going to be, it's the, it's the, it's the playing philosophy at Derby, isn't it? How should you do it as a promoted side? And I'm sure the narratives will swing one way or the other. On the basis of which way this one goes. But yeah, it should be a fun one.
- [35:00]
Adam Levantal
Yeah, it's not the tactical battle that everyone is going to be talking about this weekend. That'll be Arteta and Pep. But it's a nice subplot to the weekend and I'm glad. Yeah, we touched on that as well. Wolves in 18th, three defeats out of four heading to Villa. Are you a little bit worried about what's going on there or is everything okay?
- [35:18]
Tim Spears
Oh, no, everything's not okay. But they've had statistically the worst start to the season in terms of fixtures. So they knew it was coming. They've had Arsenal, Chelsea, they've had Newcastle, they've got Villa away, they've got Liverpool, they've got Man City coming up and then they've got Brighton away as well. So they've had a horrific start. But they've won 2 in 17 in all competitions since February. Those were against Burnley and Luton at home. They're both championship clubs, so yeah, they're in trouble. I think Wolves kind of take is that not worrying about the fact that it's 2 in 17. They're sort of looking at this season's a fresh start. But yeah.
- [35:52]
Adam Levantal
Is Gary O'Neill under pressure? He seems like a nice guy and everything, but I don't want to sort of turn the screw on him. But is the hierarchy there?
- [36:00]
Tim Spears
I mean, I think he's been dealt a bad hand with the fact that Kilman and Neto were sold in the summer for 90 million and weren't replaced. You know, they've brought young, inexperienced players in to replace them. So he's been dealt a bad hand on that front. But tactically he's got things wrong. He went four at the back even though he's got a weaker defense, which I thought was really silly. And they got walloped 6:2 by Chelsea. So yeah, aberdad he's talking in a very defeatist manner. He's kind of saying, oh, we're fighting against the odds in every game at the moment. You know, we're second favorites for every game. It's sort of like, you know, Nuno still fresh in the mind at Wolves, where Wolves would take on and beat the big six clubs, you know, over the course of a season or two. They did. They beat everybody. So, yeah, I am slightly concerned that the squad should not be in the bottom three and the team should not be in the bottom three. They should be. They should be comfortably mid table with what they' so he'll need to be there Sooner rather than later.
- [36:58]
Adam Levantal
Right? Newcastle are third unbeaten three wins out four rather than three defeats in four like wolves. And their results seem to be at odds with their performances. But they should embrace it, says George Culkin. Here he is on the pod on the time podcast before heading to full. Is it must win? No, it is absolutely not must win.
- [37:18]
Tim Spears
But the longer Newcastle can keep this unbeaten run the better. And you know they should be going there full of confidence, you know, if.
- [37:27]
Adam Levantal
Not necessarily in the way that they're playing then in the knowledge that they.
- [37:32]
Tim Spears
Have got these reserves within them to dig out results.
- [37:36]
Adam Levantal
And that is, you know, that is.
- [37:37]
Tim Spears
Just as important as playing well.
- [37:39]
Adam Levantal
Another game to look out for this weekend. Tottenham. Back to back league defeats. They're in 13th up against Brentford who've won two, lost two and those two games were against Liverpool and Manchester City. That's also on Saturday afternoon. Spurs just got past Coventry in the Carabao Cup. Here's James Moore speaking to Danny Kelly post match on our spurs podcast. View from the Lane.
- [38:03]
Tim Spears
It was awful and we shouldn't pretend.
- [38:07]
John McKenzie
That winning a game in that fashion.
- [38:09]
Tim Spears
When you played so badly isn't utterly hilarious. I mean look, if they played incredibly well and gone out, I don't think we'd be kind of crying about the performance Danny. So let's cling to the positives.
- [38:22]
Adam Levantal
So spurs can still win the Carabao cup and this all fits in with the Ange Postecoglou I win something in my second season debate and he has since spoken about what he was talking about after the North London Derby. He was a little bit short in that sky interview saying no, I always win in my second season. And he has tried to explain it saying look, well it was. I was just flagging a fact. I was just saying a truth. I struggle with the sort of the self awareness of Ange Postecoglou a little bit. It didn't look great when he said it. Even when he's explaining it it still doesn't look great. And it sort of feels like he's. I don't know, he's not quite got a grasp on. He's not got great self awareness either on what he's saying and how he's saying it. And also maybe and I'm not the tactics guy but on his tactics as well.
- [39:18]
Tim Spears
Yeah, I don't think he cares probably. And that was great. A year ago when they were earning 26 points from 30 at the start of the season everyone thought wow, so refreshing. This guy says what he thinks and now he's saying what he thinks and he looks silly because they're not playing very well and they didn't have a shot against Coventry in the first half and got booed off and yeah looked like they were heading out and probably deserved to lose that one. Yeah, he doesn't look great. He's losing it a bit I think. I mean he's very, very, very bullish. That's his character, that's his nature. That's not going to change. Neither is the way that his teams play. But yeah, when you're two minutes from losing to Coventry you can look a bit silly. So if I was him I'd be nicer on camera. I think he's coming across as quite rude and that doesn't look good and it looks like you're losing control. Whether that's true or not I don't know. But that's what it looks like and the players will 100% feed off that as well as the fans.
- [40:09]
John McKenzie
The lack of self awareness I think is interesting. I don't necessarily agree with that in terms of his post match comments but I think the big issue with his tactical approach is that it seems so non compromise that when there's clear improvements that can be made it seems as though you just come out and say yeah we're going to make those improvements and for him that's compromising his system in some way.
- [40:31]
Adam Levantal
Hat tip to Nick Miller who was sat in Tim Spears seat prior to Liverpool against Nottingham Forest. He flagged the fact that Callum Hudson Odoi was going to cut in from the left hand side pretty much and slot past Alisson. It was a good, it was a good shout wasn't it?
- [40:45]
John McKenzie
Fair play to him eight times last season. Yeah so I suppose it was, it was coming.
- [40:49]
Adam Levantal
Yeah so I thought that it was. It was nice to see something that has been flagged on the preview show come to come to fruition. Liverpool obviously they've bounced back since 31 Champions League win in Milan. And on our Liverpool Liverpool podcast walk on, Andy Jones expects Bournemouth's playing style to suit Liverpool. Yeah, I think it's, it's certainly not going to be a backs of the wall job that they're going to you.
- [41:11]
John McKenzie
Know, try and sign, execute. I think they are going to come.
- [41:13]
Adam Levantal
Out and try and play and press.
- [41:15]
John McKenzie
High and and get after Liverpool and.
- [41:17]
Adam Levantal
Be a bit more open. It should on paper suit Liverpool a little bit better.
- [41:22]
Tim Spears
You know, Liverpool off the back of.
- [41:24]
Adam Levantal
A big win, a confidence boost and win. You would like to think that they'll they'll be straight into it and want.
- [41:30]
John McKenzie
To put the record right themselves at Anfield because, you know, you don't want.
- [41:34]
Adam Levantal
To be going two games without a win there. Are you on the same page as Andy there, John?
- [41:38]
John McKenzie
Yeah, absolutely. I think Bournemouth, they will cause a lot of problems for a lot of the big six sides, but I think with Liverpool, they are set up to sort of exploit space, play directly and thrive in chaos. So I think that this is probably one of those ones where it will suit Liverpool. There'll be space for them to exploit and they've got the players to do it.
- [41:56]
Adam Levantal
Good week for Manchester United. They beat Southampton last time out in the Premier League and then they hammered Barnsley in the Carabao Cup. 7 nil, including 2 for Rashford, 2 for Garnacho. Now on to Crystal Palace. They're yet to win two points from four. Let's hear from Carl Anka on Talk of the Devils.
- [42:15]
Tim Spears
But I think we are now reaching the point in the season where Garnacho is likely to start games and that will then be the Plan B, because I think think Rashford and Garnacho, if they're both very, very confident against a team like palace who are going to play wing backs. Whoever starts against Tyrek Mitchell, you might have some fun there because at the moment palace want to send both their wing backs forward and Mitchell is a good defensive fullback, wing back, however you want to describe it, but isn't the most comfortable going forward. So if you can beat him in a foot race, you're in. So that's the one I'm interested in. Not necessarily who starts in both wings, but who's the one up against Mitchell?
- [42:50]
Adam Levantal
Are we wrong to think that they've taken a step forward after the week that they've had?
- [42:54]
John McKenzie
They've certainly proven that they would do quite well in the championship, I think. But they're back to the Premier League this week, I'm afraid. Yeah, palace is a game that they should be looking at and thinking this is another nice fixture for us to keep things going. Palace, I suppose, will be in the opposite side of that equation and they'll be thinking we really need to start getting some points on the board. So, yeah, I think this could be a good fixture. It could be a banana skin for Manchester United or it could be another comfortable win for.
- [43:22]
Adam Levantal
Okay, we will see on that and all of the games that we've previewed this week. Tim, thank you very much indeed. And John, thank you to you as well.
- [43:31]
John McKenzie
Always my pleasure. Always my pleasure.
- [43:32]
Adam Levantal
Make sure you Check out all the podcasts available via the Athletic. Thank you very much for listening watching on YouTube. Keep your comments and your suggestions coming in. We'll be back on Monday. Have a great weekend.
- [43:47]
Tim Spears
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Ailee Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts.
- [43:57]
Adam Levantal
For free, search for the Athletic on.
- [43:59]
Tim Spears
Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [44:12]
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