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- [00:01]
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As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season we'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least ten dollars, place bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic. See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY 467-369 in New York, call 1-800- NEXT STEP in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 Massachusetts 1, 800, bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico for first bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager.
- [01:15]
Stu James
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- [01:45]
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- [02:49]
Matt Davis Adams
The Athletic FC welcome to the preview from the Athletic fc. This week our main focus is a classic Premier League fixture with a very modern twist and in no way tedious transfer saga. It's Newcastle United vs Liverpool on the pitch and in some ways off it too. As Alexander Isak goes from Howe the lads to I want away lads. Joining me today are Stu James. Welcome back Stu.
- [03:20]
Stu James
Thanks Matt.
- [03:20]
Matt Davis Adams
Great to be back on again and making her debut. On the preview we have the athletics Megan Feringer. How you doing Megan?
- [03:27]
Megan Feringer
Yeah, I'm good. I'm happy to be here.
- [03:29]
Matt Davis Adams
We're happy to have you. So it's the Magpies and the Liver Birds which is our main football ornithological focus. But we'll also take a look over some of the other eye catching matchups taking place on match day two in the Premier League. And boy there are plenty of them this week. So despite the fact he's got about as much chance of starting up front for Newcastle on Monday as Alan Shearer, Alexander Isak's future dominates much of the discourse around the game which marks the first meeting of of Newcastle and Liverpool since the Carabao Cup Final in which Isak scored. On Tuesday. The nominally Newcastle forward released a statement saying the relationship can't continue. Newcastle counter with a statement of their own later that evening saying they were disappointed with Isak and that their stance hasn't changed. Stu, this is all very messy. What have you made about how it's gone down this week?
- [04:16]
Stu James
It is very messy, Matt. I don't think any of it is unexpected. I say that not in the context of what's happened previously this summer involving Isaac and Newcastle. Also what we know from the word on the inside in relation to both parties and also what we know from how football works. You know essentially Isaac in Newcastle is a game now. As you said, he's put out this statement. Same promises have been broken. The relationship can't continue. Newcastle counter and say the opposite. And when I say we know how football works, my mind goes back to I was asked a few years ago to write about how players engineer an exit in this kind of situation. And I remember an agent saying to me for that piece, if you can't find a solution, you do whatever is next necessary. You don't be a nice guy, you know, you refuse to play in matches. Your body language is bad, you don't train well. And generally you're a bit of a nuisance around the place. I know fans won't like to hear any of that. But that is the reality. That said, and this really has come back into my mind when I think about how this might play out now, another agent in that piece agreed with all that. But he said you can upset the head coach or the manager. You can upset the CEO and you can upset the sporting director. Obviously Newcastle don't actually have a CEO to upset at the minute or a sporting director. But he said you never make the owner angry. And I think that's the territory that Isaac is in now with Newcastle. I think the owners clearly are really upset by what's gone on. Our Newcastle guys made the point in their reporting. It's very unusual for Piff to do anything quickly. They responded really quickly with this statement on the back of what Isaac came out with. So I'm not saying that Isak won't go. But I think there is no chance that the conditions of Sellmat will change. And those conditions of Sal are as we know. Liverpool have to greatly increase their bid and get up close to 150 million. And Newcastle have to sign two strikers. And one of those has to be Champions League quality as an awful lot of things to happen in a short space of time. So yeah, I think he's played his last card here really. He's out. There's nothing else. No other lever he can pull now in a way. And at this moment in time, I think it's far more likely he stays. Then of course there's another huge problem on the horizon as to how they try to reintegrate him.
- [06:31]
Matt Davis Adams
Of course they meet next, these two teams. Megan, the Premier League loves a bit of drama. I mean, are you surprised at how long this has rumbled on? Although I guess from a Liverpool perspective that's not a bad thing, right? Isaac's played his cards. Newcastle are without their star striker. Liverpool might just be thinking well you know, we'll let this rumble on. We don't necessarily need Isak in the building building now but. But the ball's in their court and everything's in their favor, isn't it?
- [06:58]
Megan Feringer
Yeah. I Mean I think in the last five times that Esac's played Liverpool he scored three goals and had an assist. So like on that level it's kind of like oh great. We don't have to deal with the player who's probably been the best at sort of undoing our defense. But yeah, I think Liverpool the ball is in their court. If they want to up their up their fee and they want to up the money, then perfect. But if Newcastle really want to dig their heels in, which it sounds like they do, I think they will. You know, at this stage I don't really know what Esac can do. If the Newcastle owners don't want to sell them, they. They don't have to sell them. Also I think it's kind of getting personal as well to save face for Newcastle. They've already been sort of thwarted in the transfer market this summer. So does this then make them look even worse? And I think. I think Face is a really big deal on this as well. And. And unless Liverpool offer, I mean some incredible money and it makes Newcastle look good in some way and makes them come out of this in a better light than they currently are in. I think just don't see it ending pretty well.
- [07:53]
Stu James
I think that's a really interesting point that Mega makes there, Matt. There's kind of the reputational damage here for Newcastle in the sense of the dangerous precedent it sets if they do cave in. Now what message does that send to the rest of the squad when one of those is looking for a move in 612 months time. So it's another reason for Newcastle to dig their heels in.
- [08:11]
Matt Davis Adams
And meanwhile Eddie Howe has spoken about this situation on Friday morning. We can hear a bit of that now.
- [08:16]
Stu James
He's contracted to us. He's our player. My wish is that he would be playing on Monday night with us. But he won't be. And that's regrettable at this moment. 100%. You know, I want to see him back in a Newcastle shirt, Stu.
- [08:30]
Matt Davis Adams
That's pretty unequivocal from Eddie Howe. It also feels like maybe the first sign of reparations being made, you know, come back, Alexander, all is forgiven, et cetera. In case it doesn't go through. He's in a tough spot, isn't he Hal? Because if he doesn't get the move, Isaac, then you can't just leave him sulking around the training ground until the January transfer window opens.
- [08:49]
Stu James
No you can't. And it's difficult I think especially with how football operates in England where if you look at Say Germany. The sporting director will often come out and talk in a situation like this or a more senior voice in relation to the board here. The only mouthpiece really is how. How is very careful with what he says to the media anyway. He's never sort of person who gives much away, but he's treading a really fine line at the minute. And we've had this sort of phrase that's been used that Newcastle are playing good cop, bad cop, the owners being the bad cops, obviously. And how the good cop. Because you're right, there may well come a point here where he has to try to reintegrate Isaac. And I find it hard to believe that Isak wouldn't do that, mindful of what he'll be missing out on. You know, it's a World cup year as well. It's Champions League football. I just can't see him following through what he's saying he would do at this moment in time. But yeah, really, really nightmare situation for him to manage and how also will be mindful of how the rest of the players feel about all this as well. So it also makes me think it would make so much sense if the start of the season, Matt, was aligned with the transfer window. And realistically that's not going to happen. I mean, we tried it a few years ago. There's huge complications around all the other leagues needing to agree to do that kind of thing too. But it just lends itself to this very, very messy situation which we're also seeing at other Premier League clubs too. You know, Brentford have got it with this, haven't they, this moment in time. So, yeah, it's a nightmare for managers I think too.
- [10:16]
Megan Feringer
Like, Eddie Howe's always been praised for his man management style and his ability to get the best out of his players. This sort of ecosystem in this environment, that's really great. And I think something like this really does, like Stu said, just kind of throw a grenade into all of that. And how Eddie Howe manages to navigate this is going to be really interesting. Like a lot of people really praise him and he's obviously highly regarded, but if he can get out of this and make sure that the squad still feels some semblance of love and passion amongst themselves, I think it's going to reflect really well on Eddie how, yeah.
- [10:46]
Matt Davis Adams
He might end up just being the sporting director himself, I guess. For more on the Isaac situation, you can head over to the Athletics Dedicated Liverpool podcast. Walk on. Let's look at Liverpool then. Hugo Ekatike with a goal and an assist on his Premier League debut against Bournemouth last week. Just the second Liverpool player to achieve that alongside Darwin Nunez. Do Liverpool actually need Isak given how Ekatike started? Megan? I mean, I guess you can never have enough good players.
- [11:13]
Megan Feringer
It was kind of funny because I saw some on an X which is okay. Like granted it's probably not the most exquisite window into humanity X. But like they said something along the lines of Liverpool are being greedy because they also wanted Isak on top of Ekitike. And last season Liverpool had six senior forwards. And right now they currently have four. There's also. Salah is going to be away for afcon. So you're going to be down to three senior forwards at some point. So I don't think it's greedy at all from Liverpool's perspective.
- [11:39]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, so considerations in attack for them. Probably some defensive issues to sort out as well. Given what we saw against Bournemouth last week. Stu. And how much trouble Antoine Semenya caused them. I guess if you're Anthony Elanga or Anthony Gordon or Harvey Barnes, you're thinking we could make a here as well.
- [11:54]
Stu James
Yeah, you absolutely are. I mean that front three for Newcastle. I watched their game against Villa last week. They were really good actually. First half Newcastle really really good. And should have scored during that period. And obviously the common thread running through that front three is pace in terms of Alanga. Absolutely electric. I really like Alanga. I like him as a footballer. He's so direct and positive. And I like his his attitude too. Matt. If you look at his social media stuff, the amount of work he does outside of football. He trains like an athlete is phenomenal. And I find it fascinating watching him doing all that. I've discussed it with someone who is an athlete and they're like amazed by what he's doing. So yeah, that pace on the face of it would be a great asset to Newcastle. Anthony Gordon worked really hard against Villa and his movement was intelligent. But it was just that thing, Matt, where he looked what he is. He looked like a winger playing as a striker. And that obviously is a big problem for Newcastle. And brings us back into Isaac territory, I guess. Interesting what you say about Semenya. You know, Liverpool were caught 3v3 on the first goal initially 2v2 on the second. Brilliant counter attacking goals from a Bournemouth perspective. But concerns for Liverpool and I can't believe that they will, you know, leave themselves open in the same way again. I also think beyond Newcastle's front three, that midfield three, you know, Joe Linton, Bruno Guimaras and Tonali they're so good as well and I was watching them out of possession in the first half against Villa when it was 11v11. You know they play really narrow. They make it so hard for teams to play through them. The two wide players. Barnes in Elanga tuck in. So I guess what I'm trying to say is Liverpool are in for a really tough game on Monday night and yeah, it'd be fascinating to see how it plays out.
- [13:36]
Matt Davis Adams
Do you think Arne Slot might mix up things defensively a little bit. Megan, Given what we saw against Bournemouth I'm not sure if he's got the options to do it. Has he personnel wise obviously a lot of focus on Ibrahim Konate last week. But Milos Kirkish had a tough debut as well. But they're going to be without Jeremy Frimpong until after the international break. I mean he's short of COVID in defense if not attack.
- [13:58]
Megan Feringer
Yeah, definitely. I mean if you looked at his bench, I think for the game it's Joe Gomez he could have caught on. So again like I pointed out that they needed another attacker but they do probably need a defender which is why Mark Gahey's obviously been linked with them and I think he'd be a stellar signing. I remember watching him with Swansea and absolutely loved every minute of watching him. But yeah, I think, you know, Slot's been talking about balance quite a lot over the last few weeks and trying to find it and they do push a lot of players forward and then you know, obviously the fullbacks are sort of caught off guard which is exactly what happened against Bournemouth and it happened in preseason as well. But equally I think you know not to say that oh they're just missing one player and that's why the balance is off. But like Grabenburch hasn't been around and he was so integral to the way Liverpool play. That balance they offer being able to cover the fullbacks, the center backs when they push forward. And I think not having him around has been really really difficult for Liverpool. And like Stu had mentioned, you know Newcastle's midfield is fantastic. So I think that's one of the most important players for Liverpool could play.
- [14:58]
Matt Davis Adams
Graven Birch. They're back from suspension. Albeit he's just become a dad so he might be a bit bleary eyed trudging around the St. James's turf. What's going to happen then Stu? What's the score going to be on Monday night?
- [15:07]
Stu James
Oh, it is a difficult one to call. I agree with what Megan says. Gravenbutch coming Back in. I think this is where sometimes Matt, we have to be careful not to read a lot into a little. I know Liverpool have conceded goals in the community shield obviously last week. They look vulnerable. But last season he had the second best defense in the Premier League. Grabenburch's defensive discipline in midfield was a big reason for that. So where am I going with this? I'm actually going to go for a 22 draw, Matt.
- [15:33]
Matt Davis Adams
All right. I like that. Goals. Megan. It's nearly a decade since Newcastle beat Liverpool at St James's Park. Is that going to change on Monday?
- [15:40]
Megan Feringer
I had written 22 as well. But the reason why I did it was because I like the idea of a scoreline reflecting sort of like the larger reality around it. And it feels like Newcastle and Liverpool are on this in this stalemate around ec. So I like the idea of it ending in a draw. Just. It just feels right.
- [15:56]
Matt Davis Adams
Either way, there's going to be goals. I think that is a certainty. Despite the lack of a prolific Swedish striker. Really looking forward to that one. Eight o' clock on Monday night. Newcastle United versus Liverpool at St. James's Park.
- [16:09]
Stu James
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [16:14]
Matt Davis Adams
Right. This is the part of the show where with the help of our partners, Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. And Alex Boyce is back with me to look ahead to Newcastle versus Liverpool. I mean, Alex, before we do that, I've got to ask you, if you're right, after Monday, how are the vocal chords? You're at Ellen Road. Big Leeds fan. And a triumphant return to the Premier League for you boys.
- [16:35]
Alex Boyce
A triumphant return. Yes, my vocal cords are back intact, thankfully for the. For this show. But yeah, I thought it was a brilliant night at Ellen Road and the better team won. Matt, you know, I know there was a contentious decision out there, but we don't need to debate that now. But I thought Leeds were the team who looked like they were going to win the game. So. Really happy to be back with three points. And now we go to the Emirates on Saturday, which is a little bit more difficult but good to be back.
- [16:58]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah. Let's see if you can make it six points from six. But it's Newcastle versus Liverpool that's our focus here. I'm going to ask you what's standing out for you in this one. I'm guessing there aren't any Alexander Isaac specials.
- [17:10]
Alex Boyce
No, no, not quite. I mean you can't really write the fact, can you, that Newcastle's first home game of the season is is Liverpool. This makes me think back to the PSG game in the Champions League a couple of years ago at St. James's Park. Where every tackle, every interception, every sort of block was celebrated like a goal. And I think this could be even louder with the. With the tension, anger and betrayal in the air. When you look to the Betfair sportsbook Newcastle are priced up at bigger than 2 to 1 to take all three points. They're 21 to 10 to win the game. This may surprise a few but they haven't actually beaten Liverpool in the Premier League since 2015 as well. So that's 17 meetings since and. And 12 defeats for Newcastle including five of seven at home. So they sort of need to book that trend, don't they? And by the way that leaves Liverpool odds on at 5 to 6 here. Which I think is a bit too short if you ask me under the circumstances. And. And yeah the draws at 9 to 4. So it's gonna be really interesting to see how this one plays out.
- [18:03]
Matt Davis Adams
Are you pleased that we're doing this section without mentioning the possibility of a four. Three scoreline 90s heads will know exactly what that means when it comes to Liverpool versus Newcastle. But pretty unlikely I'm guessing this time around.
- [18:14]
Alex Boyce
Yeah, I think so. I think the interesting one here is that Newcastle are actually on three games without a goal in the Premier League. Stretching back to the last couple of games last season. And obviously the drew nil nil last week against Villa. But it is to the bet builder that I wanted to take you for this one Matt. Where Betfair safe sub is now live. Meaning if you have a player subbed off in your bet that your bet is not over yet. So this means that on selected markets your bet rolls on to the player coming on to keep your bet live to the end. And with Liverpool having no Jeremy Frimpong I think Colin Bradley's just back in training. I think that right hand side could be the place to look for the bet builder. So in this game that I've sort of mentioned I expect to have a lot of emotion. I think fouls and cards are the way to play. And I think it could be Gomez who gets the nod. You can back Joe Gomez to be carded here. And if you combine that in a bet builder on the sports book with Ekatike to have a shot on target. He was magnificent wasn't he on his. On his Premier League debut. And. And then Dominic Saboszli to commit two or more fouls something that he's done in three of his last five games against Newcastle and he's. He's six to four to do that. So it really boosts our odds up and that gives us 11 to 1 on the bet builder with safe. So protecting all our selections there. So I think we could get a good run for our money at a double figure price there.
- [19:25]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, very nice. Obviously got the likes of Joe Linton and Bruno Gimmer. IC1 averse to rattling a cage as well. We'll see how we get on with that one then. Alex, thanks for your time. We'll speak to you again next week.
- [19:37]
Alex Boyce
Thanks, Matt.
- [19:38]
Stu James
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [19:42]
Matt Davis Adams
Right, next today we'll get into a game which has been branded by some wags El Casico. It's Crystal palace versus Nottingham Forest. Traditionally a very benign fixture. All of a sudden it is rife with rancor. This after Forest wrote to UEFA to raise concerns about the Eagles planned participation in the Europa League this season. You'll be well aware by now, listener, that the palace were demoted to the Conference League with Forest taking their place in the Europa. Scandalous is how producer Jay described that in the script. Some members of this podcast might use a different word like judicious. Yeah, I'm a Forest supporter, so as you can tell Stu, I fully bought into this new beef. Can you give me a more measured take on it, please?
- [20:23]
Stu James
I don't know if I can or not really. Isn't it curious how these fixtures come out at this time? Much like we've just been discussing Newcastle, Liverpool and now we've got, you know, Forest palace, which as you say would have been pretty nondescript in. In any other season. No, palace have obviously just played their first ever match in European competition, albeit in a competition that they don't think they should be in. By winning the FA cup, they qualified to play in the Europa League. And as our good friend Tim Spears pointed out on here last week, Matt, the difference in caliber of teams in the Europa League and the Conference League is absolutely huge. So you know, you can understand why palace are very frustrated and obviously there's the money situation on top. Financially it's a complete game changer. The Europa League. So really interesting. Of course it's not just that palace were demoted from the Europa League. The team that's taken their place is Forest and your Forest team. Matt also happened to have written to UEFA to ask for clarity around the multi club ownership rules. Some would say pop kettle with that one. I Think and highlighted this, you know, alleged breach. So guys, so many subplots to this, I think. Interesting. There's this perception and yeah, palace fans would probably use a stronger word than perception that Forrest have got palace kicked out of the Europa League. Essentially. Steve Parish didn't put it quite like that when he spoke to Gary Lineker, but it was put to Parish that Forrester played a role in it. And he said, I've got his quote here. We were told that and I think it's been made public. And he went on to say, if there wasn't somebody that wanted to get in as a consequence, then there wouldn't be a problem. So, yeah, Forrest raised the alarm and told tales. Essentially my take on all this, for what it's worth, is that palace failed to tick a box in time. That's essentially what Forest or Marinakis did when he was concerned about Forest and Olympiacos both being in the Champions League right at the time. He, you know, did what he needed to do in terms of putting his shares in a blind trust. So I gotta be honest, Matt, I find it all a nonsense. I find it all a nonsense also in terms of other things that go on in football. So we've got a situation this week where. Tell me who Julio signed for, please. I mean, is he signed for a club or is he signed for Simoners? Is he playing for Strasbourg or is he playing for Chelsea or is he playing for Both? You know, that whole Enciso thing is, is bonkers to me and sums up so much of what's wrong. So, yeah, I feel sympathy for Palace. Obviously they've pursued all the, you know, legal avenues and ultimately, you know, they, they've been found guilty of this breach. So it is what it is. But let's not sugarcoat it. There is now going to be a lot of animosity, ill feeling around this game on Sunday. I don't know that it will spill onto the pitch. I think we always have to be careful. Players don't think like fans and often we think they should, but they don't. But clearly, in terms of the crowd, there's already talk of palace fans protesting the Met. Police have been saying they're going to tighten security. I saw some reports saying they wonder if something might happen around the Forest coach when it arrives. So. So yeah, there we go. It suddenly turned into this grudge match and let's be honest, for the new choice Bloomin, fantastic.
- [23:31]
Matt Davis Adams
It's wonderful. But we want the grudge to be borne out in the right way. I think Steve Parrish and Evangelos Marinakis can have a big part in this. I think if Parrish puts like a whoopee cushion on Marinakis seat in the director's box or maybe he's got one of those flowers that squirts water on his lapel and he can give him a little bit of that or just dampen things down but in a more fun way. As if this game needed any more narrative, Nuno Espirito Santo added an ext. Leah in his pre match press conference, let's hear what the at time of recording Forest boss had to say.
- [24:01]
Stu James
Look, I always had a very good relationship with the owner. Last season was very, very, very close almost daily basis this season not, not so well.
- [24:12]
Ad Read Announcer
But I always believe that dialogue and.
- [24:15]
Stu James
What you, what you say or your.
- [24:17]
Ad Read Announcer
Opinion is always valid because my concern.
- [24:18]
Stu James
Is, is the squad and the season.
- [24:21]
Matt Davis Adams
That we have have ahead of us but our relations has changed.
- [24:25]
Stu James
It's not good.
- [24:26]
Ad Read Announcer
I think everybody at the club should.
- [24:28]
Stu James
Should, should, should be together and but.
- [24:31]
Matt Davis Adams
It'S not a reality. Well that sounds like an irreparably broken relationship. Megan on the eve of this season, Nuno said he was worried. That was before Forest spent big on McAtee, Hutchinson and Callimo Endo. Douglas Luiz also coming in as well. I guess though those players might need to wait for their debut given how Forest performed against Brentford last week.
- [24:53]
Megan Feringer
No, I wouldn't be rotating. But also he sort of made it clear that the reason why he was concerned wasn't necessarily because there was no one coming in. Realistically this man would have known that there was some people coming in, especially because McAtee and Hutchinson were sort of unveiled on the pitch before the game. So it's not like he was like, whoa, where are you guys coming from? How did you guys get here? He would have known that. But it was more about that sort of building of synergy and rapport between the players that Nuno's so big on. I think his quote was I think it was after Gibbs, White and Anderson who were phenomenal together, working together. He sort of said these connection started last season. There are no miracles. It only comes through time. Which feels like something my mom would say in her yoga class. But it was fantastic. I loved it. And it's all about that sort of building of synergy between these players. And if that is what he wants, then realistically, no. These new signings are probably not going to start together. He might sort of drip feed him in. I think with the starting 11, it was only the one player who was different from last season, who's come in. And like you said, Alenga's replacement, Nuno, clearly really emphasizes that sort of building up of togetherness, knowing how to play together. And so I'd be surprised if loads of them do start. I mean, I'm sure maybe he drip feeds them in throughout the match, but yeah, I don't think we'll see too many rotations with the starting 11.
- [26:06]
Matt Davis Adams
From a player's perspective, Stu, would you always rather be at your new club for pre season or is it kind of situational and you're thinking, well, if I wait a bit longer, I might get a better move, I might get a bit more money and you're able to adapt anyway because the nature of the job is that you're likely to be moving around every couple of years anyway.
- [26:24]
Stu James
Yeah, a little bit of both there. I think that. I think fundamentally I'd say you want to be in at the club. You know, there's so many things to sort out off the field as well around all that, where you just want to get settled in. Pre season is a really good time to do that away from the pressure of the competitive matches. It's getting used to, you know, your new teammates, the opportunity to work with the coach and understand exactly what he wants from you in an environment where you have the time to do that. You know, for these clubs who are going to be playing European competition, that's a. I think that's a real challenge. That's one thing we discussed with United, wasn't it last week, that now has time on the training ground too, integrate people during the season. A lot of clubs won't have that. Certainly the top clubs in the Premier League. So, yeah, I think as a player, ideally, the sooner it happens, the better. But ultimately you also want to have the right move. You know, you look at someone like Vardy now who's waiting and waiting and waiting, and I'm sure he's had opportunities to go somewhere, but, you know, jumping in and joining the wrong club, that's obviously the last thing you want to do. So a little bit of a balance, but essentially perfect scenario. Sign early in pre season.
- [27:28]
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- [28:01]
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- [28:32]
Megan Feringer
Buying a car in Carvana was so easy I was able to finance it through them. I just. Whoa, wait, you mean finance? Yeah, finance got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options all within my budget. That's cool. But financing through Carvana was so easy. Financed, done and I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vehicle vending machine tomorrow.
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Financed, right?
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Megan Feringer
That's what I said.
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- [29:07]
Matt Davis Adams
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair from a Palace perspective. Then Megan and Azilus Eagles edged out Frederick's dad one nil in the first leg of their Conference League playoff at Selhurst on Thursday. Oliver Glasner, pretty punch afterwards.
- [29:23]
Stu James
We are very, very late. It's 10 days to go to find the right replacements. So again I think we could have done much better than we did. It's no criticism, it's just telling facts. You know, Today we had 17 on field players available. One from the academy, two players we already told that they want they should leave the club. So it means we have 14.
- [29:43]
Matt Davis Adams
I wonder if we might see the impact of that on Sunday because you can't really rotate, can it? It's quite a short turnaround between the game.
- [29:51]
Megan Feringer
Yeah, no, I don't think he can. I kind of feel bad for Glassner in a way because he also said, you know, why was it so hard to break down this team? And he went creativity and space, which they just kind of felt like bywords for Azangi really. Which you know, you kind of feel bad for him in that sense. And I think too you can feel bad for Palace. Like I know I do agree with Stu. Like palace didn't check a Box. And that is their fault. But equally, you know, they win their first major trophy and then it's, oh, sorry, your place in Europe, your rightful place in Europe is on a guillotine now. Hey, you've just had your first European win. But it's sort of overshadowing by the fact that this transfer stuff's going on. So, like, it's hard not to feel bad for Palace. It just feels like you sort of want to go quite cynical, nihilistic if you're a Palace fan. Like, why are all these great things happening and they're overshadowed by these bad things? To go back to the original question, no, I don't think they can rotate. It is a shame, too, because they were playing so well last season and all the great things that they did, and it just doesn't feel like they've really kicked on. And they're clearly not the only team that's done that in the Premier League this season. There's quite a few of them that feel like they've sort of stuttered this summer, but palace, for sure, it doesn't feel like they're. They've got the depth they need.
- [30:55]
Stu James
Yeah, I agree with what Megan said there. It's. It's really tough because, you know, those scenes after the FA Cup Final, we keep coming back to it. Matt was just so magical. You know, they win, finally win a trophy and you think this is. They're in a great place. They've got fantastic coach. Their first 11. Palace, you know, assuming nobody goes, which clearly isn't going to happen, is so good, so strong. They play in a way that troubles any team in the league. No surprise whatsoever. They go to Chelsea last weekend and get a result. They're on this unbeaten run, aren't they? You. It's really impressive. I think it's 10 matches before last night and then suddenly you feel like, yeah, the rug's being pulled from under their feet and there's this negative backdrop. I think what's been hard for them, they anticipated as they go in this summer, and realistically they would have thought Margaret would have gone as well, and they would have gone. Those deals needed to happen really, earlier in the summer, Matt, and then that would have freed up the opportunity to use that money at a point when clearly it would have been far more. More helpful. Coming back to what you were just saying with the question before, when's it good for a player to go in? When does a coach want someone to go in? You know, what are Palace's options now? You know, they're the bats into a corner with Markey. He has one year left on his contract. They have to sell him really. You know, obviously as a has been a huge part of their success. He is going to go now. In the past, they have managed to find these players. You know, Adam Orton was a brilliant signing from the championship, but can they keep doing that? It puts huge pressure on the recruitment staff to get those sort of deals right. But for the fans, that's who I think of first and foremost. You know, players come and go. Fans are there forever and they've been in this unbelievable moment and you just sense it could go the other way a little bit now. And the biggest thing probably of all is they've got to keep Glasner. You know, he's so important to their success. And to keep Glassner, they've got to show a level of ambition in terms of the signings they make so really challenging last. What was it, 12, 13 days? The window now.
- [32:48]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah. That leads me nicely onto my next question, Megan, which was going to be about Oliver Glasner because you wonder if he's getting a bit fed up. He said after the game on Thursday.
- [32:57]
Stu James
If Mark leaves, okay, maybe I will try my boots because I was a center back and this could be a good option. I would think about it. I can't do anything, you know, I can't sign the players. I can't sign players contracts. We have to act. We have to act. We need this. You know, it's Crystal palace future. Is Crystal palace future.
- [33:17]
Matt Davis Adams
I mean, that's pretty strong from a manager, isn't it? And he has very much been the glue that's brought all this together. Players come and go, but it's taken them a long time to find a manager who can bring them the kind of success that they've had under Glasny. You want to be placating him at this time, right?
- [33:33]
Megan Feringer
Yeah. I mean, I don't think there's much to even read between the lines with that. I'm glad that he's that honest too. I think he has every right to be. If I were him, I would be frustrated. Especially like Stu said, he's done so well and he's managed to kind of create this amazing atmosphere around palace and then constantly they're just. He's just not getting the reinforcements that he needs. And yes, the timing hasn't been great with all this going on, but equally you wonder like what kind of conflict conversations were being had over the last few months if he's coming out saying those things, does he feel like he's not being supported in the way that he should be? And Oliver Glasner feels like the kind of man who once he's at the end of his tether, like, he will go. He's. He's obviously very honest and very candid and I really respect that. But yeah, you do have to wonder, like, at what point will he say, I've done everything that I can and I just don't feel like I've got the support that I need. And, and yes, there are factors obviously working around him and the club and they're probably focusing their priorities elsewhere, especially with everything going on in the European tribunals and stuff. But if you're Glasner, you're frustrated and he'll have suitors elsewhere. He's had suitors elsewhere. He's a phenomenal coach and if someone does turn his head, like his players have had their heads turned, you wouldn't be surprised if he decides to go.
- [34:40]
Matt Davis Adams
Very, very quotable this week has been Oliver Glasner, Sky Sports reporter Poet Gary Cottrell asking him, is it difficult with Ezzer to have all the transfer speculation? And Glasner said, it's more difficult for me because I have to talk to you. And maybe speaking with the majority of Premier League managers there, I think for all the. This game, Stu, they're usually stinkers. When Patis and Forest play, you don't get many goals. Six of the last eight have been drawn. Is there a danger here that the narrative off the pitch overtakes what happens on it? And we see like a pretty turgid one all draw like we did at Selhurst between these two last season. Or. Or is this added fire going to mean that it's. It's punchier than that?
- [35:20]
Stu James
Yeah, I'm Building on my 2, 2 earlier prediction for Newcastle. Liverpool are going for free. Free here. Matt. I'm going all out. Form book out the window. Two red cards in chaos on the pitch. No, look, genuinely, I'm really like fascinated by this game because of the backdrop to it. And I said earlier it shouldn't spill over onto the pitch. I don't think it will. But I'm just intrigued by the whole context around the game and what we see on Sunday. All right.
- [35:43]
Matt Davis Adams
Should be a fun one. And the action kicks off on Friday night. Graham Potter faces his old side Chelsea at the London Stadium. Both they and West Ham are looking for their first three points of this season. In contrast then to two very strong starts made by Pep Guardiola. And Thomas Frank, whose City and spurs sides won 40 and 30 respectively. They meet at the Etihad in the early kickoff on Saturday. Stu Tiani Reinders. Crikey, that was some debut from him, wasn't it? Do you think that City will be thinking they found their gundogan slash De Bruyne replacement? Wow.
- [36:17]
Stu James
It was an incredible debut. It's a big statement to think, can he go in? Yeah, replace one of those. Interestingly, he has talked in the past about how much he used to watch de Bruyne, how interested he was in, in trying to pick up De Bruyne's scanning skills, that kind of thing. Looking at the data, Matt, it suggested when he signed that he was closer to Bernardo Silva. But that debut on the weekend, wow, had a little bit of everything, didn't it, really? He was the best player on the pitch. That ball carrying ability was something that had been highlighted when he signed and we saw that in driving through the heart of the Wolves midfield. But then to be able to play that lovely pass at the end of it, a little pitching wedge pass to set up Rico Lewis, I think it was to cross his goal. He took that beautifully. Just a really calm finish. Reminded me of goalie scored for the Netherlands last season, Spain and then you know, the other part of his game that, that running behind, that athleticism. Really dynamic midfielder who wants to break forward to set up Haaland for the third goal. So yeah, really, really impressive. I have to give credit to Sam Lee here as well because when he, when he signed Sam Lee wrote, wrote then that he would look right at home in City's midfield, you know, with all the attributes he's got and one game in and that is the only conclusion to, to draw really. So yeah, very impressive, impressive. Scored 15 goals for Milan last season, so perhaps we shouldn't be that surprised. The thing that does amaze me when I look at it now, the fee, you know, 55, 55 million euros is a lot of money, but it's not in Premier League terms really. So yeah, you know, on the face of it, he's going to be really exciting player to watch and I need to transfer him into my fantasy football team, which pretty much everyone who plays fantasy football has done this week, I think. So, yeah, there we are.
- [37:53]
Matt Davis Adams
Fantasy football might be the best way for Thomas Frank to get the players that he wants. Megan A Beret. Disappointing conclusion to his search for a number 10 Ezra. Arsenal bound. That said, he's had a decent start on the pitch, hasn't he? And he's taken the team to the Etihad. He won their 4 nil last season. Not expecting as open of a game this time around, I guess given the fact that Frank is flexible and Ange Postecoglou is not in the away technical area.
- [38:19]
Megan Feringer
Yeah, I mean if you look at the. I think it's like the last 10 matches in all competitions, City have lost five and drawn one against spurs, which is like pretty phenomenal if you're a Spurs fan. That said, you know, Stu is just sort of describing City last weekend and to me they, they look like they're, they're back, which I know it's one game, it's against Wolves who've lost like most of their key players, but still like they just looked like they're kind of back to that kind of ruthless swagger way that they play. I've always sort of admired City in the way that they can look so cold, in the way that they, they sort of play their football. But equally it feels like this season there's like a level of emotion that's there because last season was, was not humiliating or embarrassing, but definitely not up to the standard that they want. So is there a bit of vengeance in that? If you're spurs, it's maybe a little nerve wracking. So at the moment they just feel a little more fragile, I guess, because it just hasn't been great in the, in the transfer market. You know, it just feels, you know, like we said with, with palace too, it's 12 to 13 days before the transfer window ends and I know that Arsenal have done what they've done, but equally, why is it taken this long in order to make a deal happen? So I think we're on that level. Like I'd be quite frustrated if I were a Spurs fan or even Thomas Frank. Like, why has it taken this long? You know, you've just won the Europa League, but you're still sort of having to prove yourself at the top table and prove that you're worthy, which is quite frustrating if you're a Spurs fan.
- [39:39]
Stu James
I think that's it, Matt. You look at the EZ deal and that was a deal waiting to be done. And it's fairly clear to me that had Kai Havertz not got injured, injured, Arsenal probably wouldn't have made that move. And exactly as Megan just said, if you're a Spurs supporter, you're thinking, why did we leave ourselves vulnerable to something like that happening? Just go and do the deal. He obviously wanted to take Gibbs White. It didn't Happen move on. Eze was there, you know, there was a release clause in the contract and yeah. Tottenham have delayed and now they're in a. In a tricky situation as are Manchester.
- [40:12]
Matt Davis Adams
United beaten last week by Arsenal. Arsenal go to Leeds in the late kickoff on Saturday. Ruben Amarim's next test is at Craven Cottage on Sunday. It's a big game for him, isn't it Stu? I mean we can talk about the potential and he seems to be very highly rated. He's won seven of 28 Premier League games. That's less than a point a game he's going along at. That's not sustainable.
- [40:36]
Stu James
No. And I feel like we're going to keep saying this in a way. I watched the game last Sunday. I don't want to sound like Roy Keane. They did okay, but okay. He's not good enough, is he? It's. It's got to be more than that now. And he's in that territory where, I mean it's not about performances now. He's got to get results. You know, that statistic you just provided is horrendous. I mean it'd be terrible for three quarters of the teams in the Premier League, you know, and we're talking about Manchester United here. So they didn't deserve to lose, but they're just now got to find a way to win games also. The start to the season is really, really tough. You know, four of their first eight games they play, obviously they played Arsenal, they played Chelsea City and Liverp in that period. And naturally that means those other four matches, it puts extra pressure on those and Fulham is one of them. So yeah, they've got to go to Craven Cottage now and you know, if they were to to lose there, I can't imagine what it'd be like then going into the next game. And this is obviously a legacy of last season. I'm imagining deep down he probably regrets going in when he did. He didn't want to go in then. He wanted to have the time in preseason to start afraid fresh and yeah, because of that period, it's just made it even more difficult for him now. So tough game at Fulham. You know, Fulham have had a funny summer period as well, haven't they? They've made next to no signings, They've signed a 34 year old reserve team goalkeeper, lost a couple of players. Anthony Robinson's injured as well. So, you know, looking at it like that, you think there's not a bad time to play them, but yeah, you just don't know what you're Going to get with Manchester United.
- [42:11]
Megan Feringer
Now, my dad and my brother are massive Manchester United fans, so it feels like whenever they. And they're obviously in the States, but whenever Man United play, I always get a phone call half an hour later and we have to do this debrief. And it always feels like we're in a. Like a therapy session because they're just sort of like, just kind of railing against the reality of Manchester United. I'm trying to find, like, little positives for them to take, and it gets harder and harder every week.
- [42:33]
Stu James
Here's a positive. Last week, Mason Mount was really good. Yeah, Right. And that was nice to see. You know, I like Mason Mount as a player. He strikes me as a really good guy. He's had a tough time, loads of injuries, struggled with his form. I thought he was great last week. That was just like the Mason Mount we kind of know from his Chelsea days, really, which United fans haven't seen a lot of. So, yeah, there's a. There's a kind of. Not a crumb of comfort. I think it was more than that. There's a positive in it all.
- [42:56]
Megan Feringer
Yeah. Michael Cox had a really good piece about Mason Mount. I really enjoyed it because it does kind of feel sometimes like he's. He's loved by managers, but maybe not so much by fans. And then he can come across as maybe a teacher's pet, but he's clearly got capability and skills and I really liked it. So if you haven't read Michael Cox's piece, I do highly recommend going to read it. But, you know, the morsels that I told my family or my brother and my dad, was that, like, in terms of the physicality of United, I thought it was a lot better. I remember last season, it just felt like United were just bullied a lot. And again, like Steve said, I don't want to sound like Roy Keane, but, you know, it's. It's Manchester United. Like, you, like, be a little stronger in your tackle is like. Like, you are Manchester United. And it felt like that game against Arsenal, they were the ones that were sort of dictating the. The sort of physical nature of the game. And so I did enjoy that element of it at times. There was a moment when I texted my dad and said, I think y' all should win this, Responded back and said, this is why we won't. And I guess, like, you know, that just sort of fatalism. Maybe at some point it'll leave. United was the guy with the curly hair. He's been trying to cut his hair for the last like year and a half because United need to win five games on the trot and they haven't. Hopefully that changes and I think there are enough positives to take from that first game where maybe you can think that they'll string together five wins before the end of the season and that poor man won't turn into like some something from like the Addams Family, but who knows.
- [44:16]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, more positive talk than one of Megan's mum's yoga classes. We'll see if they can turn it into points this weekend.
- [44:28]
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Stu James
Workday is the AI platform that transforms.
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- [45:57]
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- [46:28]
Stu James
Foreign.
- [46:33]
Matt Davis Adams
This is the Athletic FC podcast.
- [46:35]
Stu James
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- [46:38]
Matt Davis Adams
And now Everton have lost three of their last four home games against Brighton. They've conceded 11 goals in that time and that is who they welcome to the Hill Dickinson Stadium for the first ever game there. It is a pretty atrocious name for a ground, I think we can all agree. St. Stu, what happens to home advantage here from a player's perspective? I mean do you crave that familiarity or is the fact that you've got, I don't know, an extra so many thousand people roaring you on. Does that completely negate that? Is it just not a thing for footballers? Are all stadiums pretty much the same?
- [47:12]
Stu James
I think they are to an extent. But then there's certain places that probably when you go away from home you. You kind of dread going to Goodison's.
- [47:20]
Matt Davis Adams
Uncomfortable. Right. It's very, very tight, is that, you know, tiny dressing rooms, all that kind of stuff. There'll be none of that for Brighton.
- [47:26]
Stu James
Exactly, Matt. And I'm going back in time again. Upton park would come to mind as well like that. Right. You know it's fans right on top of you which sounding old now but unfortunately all the new stadiums, it's a completely different vibe, isn't it? So you know what happens to home advantage? Well, Will Jeans did a piece for us this week actually and this is not good news for you Everton fans, I have to say because in Will's piece he highlights the data that shows Southampton, Man City, Arsenal, West Ham and Spurs, who have all moved to new stadium since 2000, picked up fewer points at their new home in the first season there than they did in the one Opta took in Derby and Middlesbrough. They included all the Premier League teams who've done it. So going to the 90s too. And Derby had actually improved. There's a some comfort for you there, Everton supporters. Derby did have a better season. Should I mention that 10 years later they went down with the worst points total ever in that stadium? I don't know.
- [48:14]
Matt Davis Adams
Please do. Yes.
- [48:16]
Stu James
Yeah, you'll revel in that obviously, Matt, for natural reasons. But yeah. And then I looked actually there was this, there was A study done in the States. So this was carried out by a statistician by the name of Richard Pollard who looked at results across a 13 year period between 1987 and 2000. And it involves other sports. So this is baseball, basketball and ice hockey teams who'd move stadiums. And he found that those teams, on average they lost 24 of their kind of home advantage. So he was looking more. Let's go back to your question, Matt. He was looking at how players, how that then affected players in terms of their familiarity with the surroundings. Maybe a slightly different size playing surface and yeah, more the player side. But when I think, think of it, this question, I think of like supporters. I think supporters are so central to how a stadium feels and how they make the players feel, you know, and that is a challenge, you know, how do you recreate what you had? And if we take it to the extreme, you look at say West Ham, you know, Upton park and what they've got now is night and day, obviously how far the fans are away up from the pitch really doesn't help. There's a total disconnect. So I think it is challenging. It'd be really interesting to see how Everton adapt and as you know rightly point out at the start, good Goodison park was really, really special place and you know the old cliche was it worth points to Everton? Well, we'll find out I guess over the course of the next season.
- [49:35]
Matt Davis Adams
Elsewhere in the Premier League, Bournemouth Wolves, Burnley Sunderland and Brentford Villa. I think, Megan, that this is the Burnley Sunderland games. A really interesting one. Obviously a championship fixture last season. Sunderland had that great win last week which takes the pressure off from Burnley's perspective. First six home games for them, Sunderland, they've also got Liverpool Forest after Arsenal and Chelsea as well as Leeds. Can you have a must win game in the second week of the season?
- [50:02]
Megan Feringer
I feel like I'm going to end up on the football Cliches podcast in any capacity that I answer this question. I think so. Oh God, I hate myself. I feel like I've got Adam Hurry on my shoulder. But yeah, I think personally, yes, they need to win this game. I think it is all important not only for the points obviously and the potential of staying up in the Premier League just for momentum. You've listed the teams they have to play next and that's quite, quite scary. So if you're, if you're a Burnley fan, you are probably looking at this going well. Sunderland, let's go for it. Like let's have it. So I, I think this is a really, really important game. I'm gonna refrain from saying must win in the second week of the season, but I think it's like as close as you can get to that. But I'm also really excited because I thought Sunderland looked great and I think too this could be one of the first seasons that I can remember off the back of my head of when like a championship team gets to stay up, which would just be a real nice change to reality. It's is kind of not fun to watch team just go up and go right back down. I just don't think there's, there's much jeopardy there. So, you know, it would be a lot more fun to see, you know, not just the one sort of anomalous team stay up, just to actually see, you know, two, three teams from the championship actually like compete and challenge for that, for that safety spot. Like I just, I'd enjoy it just from a more of a neutral standpoint. It just isn't fun always seeing it happen. So I would like to see Burnley and Sunderland go at it and then equally be able to compete against Euphorus Challenge, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal.
- [51:30]
Matt Davis Adams
Foolish to read too much into one result, Stu, I think. But I'm a fool, so I'm going to do that. And I'm looking forward to Sunderland's fixtures after. They've got Burnley, they've got Brentford at home, palace away. So I mean there's half a chance for them to, to get a decent points return before we get to the end of September, isn't it?
- [51:47]
Stu James
You thinking they could do a forest under Frank Clark? Is this where you're going with this, Matt, and you'll be talking a top three finish? No, it's great, isn't it? I mean they've, Sunderland have had like a tough time is well documented over recent years. It was brilliant than coming back to the Premier League and for them to get the result they did last Saturday, you know, you see those celebrations when those goals were going in, what it means to the people. Brilliant. And yeah, when you read out those fixes, a chance for a bit of momentum. I think, you know, picking up on what Megan said, it's really important for the FL as well. When you follow a championship team in this period, now become quite demoralized by what's happening to football and you'll get to the point where you think, is there, is there any point in being promoted to the Premier League? And then you tell yourself, well actually, yeah, the money would be helpful going forward, which is a terrible way to look at it. But that's where we're at really. You know, the last two seasons to see the three promoted teams come back down and not just come back down, but not even be competitive. And in some cases those teams have been really dominant in the championship. Championship. So yeah, it's really disheartening, all of that. So it would be good for obviously, you know, Sunderland, Leeds or Burnley if they can stay up, but it would also send a wider message that gives the teams in the championship and the fans of those clubs a bit of encouragement too, that it's not becoming a closed shop. But yeah, hopefully Sunderland can, you know, get a bit of momentum going.
- [53:13]
Matt Davis Adams
I'd like to see that fantastic Slater games this week. Really looking forward to it. That's where we're going to leave things for today then the Athletic FC will be back on Monday. Until then, if you've enjoyed the show, leave us a nice review. Apple Podcasts Spotify, wherever you get your pods. Many thanks to Stu, to Megan and producer Jay and to you for listening, of course. Enjoy the football. We'll catch up with you again next week. You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producer was Jay Beal and the.
- [53:38]
Stu James
Presenter was Matt Davis Adams. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Adi Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production and proudly sponsored by Betfair.
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Megan Feringer
A brand new phone with Verizon. Yep.
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Stu James
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Stu James
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- [54:55]
Ad Read Announcer 2
This is Mike. Mike's stuck in traffic. The only thing that could make this worse is if he promised to cook his date dinner at 8, which he did. But it's now 7:30 and he's still on the 5. Good, good thing Mike has Grubhub plus with prime $0 delivery fees, 0 stress, 0 rush dinner's covered and so is his reputation. Free Grubhub plus it's on prime additional terms and fees App.