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- [00:00]
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- [01:22]
Matt Davis Adams
The Athletic FC welcome to the preview from the Athletic fc. It's the show where we get you set for the weekend's Premier League action. This week we're looking ahead to the North London Derby. And on board today we have Dan Kilpatrick. Hi, Dan.
- [01:42]
Dan Kilpatrick
Hello, mate.
- [01:43]
Matt Davis Adams
And Arthur Rochet is back with us to UK Art.
- [01:46]
Arthur Rochet
Yeah, I'm coping after Wednesday night.
- [01:50]
Matt Davis Adams
I was going to say, as I said, are you okay? I thought that was. That was just like a general hello and oh no, the Arsenal report. Probably not, but. But we'll get into that.
- [01:58]
Arthur Rochet
Yeah, all good apart from that.
- [01:59]
Matt Davis Adams
That's good, that's good. Later on we'll get into some of the other big matchups of matchweek 27. But first let's get to our feature presentation. So Sunday's North London Derby will be interim boss Igor Trudeau's first game in charge. Monday's FC's got more on why spurs chose him. If you'd like to listen to that after this. Dan, you'd had your fill of Frank, hadn't you? What's your take on Tudor?
- [02:23]
Dan Kilpatrick
Yes, I had had my fill of Frank. I think that's fair to say. It's obviously early days. He hasn't taken charge of a game yet. But I can understand the logic in Tudor's appointment. He's this coach who specializes seemingly, in kind of coming into clubs who are having a difficult time, when squads are sort of on their knees and. And lifting them and getting instant results. You know, he's done that at Juve, he did that elsewhere in Italy. So he is a sensible appointment in that respect. You know, spurs just need someone to get them through to the end of the season to get enough points to get them away from the relegation zone, which is a situation I don't think anyone thought they were going to be in. And he has a CV that suggests he's well equipped to do that. My big concern is that he has never set foot in English football before, you know, without going full proper football, man. You know, he's not played here, he's not managed here before. And as we all know, the Premier League is a kind of different beast to most other leagues in Europe, so that's a worry. But as I said, he's got a CV that suggests he's very good at coming in and getting instant results. And really what spurs need is whatever, you know, 8, 9, 10 points to get them away from the bottom three. And then presumably Tudor will wave farewell in the summer, having done his job, and spurs will have a much better managerial market to look at pre or post World cup, when people like, obviously, Pochettino will potentially be back on the managerial market. So, yeah, I'm broadly encouraged. He's doing a press conference this afternoon, Friday afternoon, where we'll learn a bit more about him. But he's done a club interview so far where I think, you know, he broadly said the right things and I think, you know, spurs fans have taken to him as well. So. So, yeah, it's very early days. Nothing's happened yet, but I can't complain.
- [04:08]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, so here for a good time, not a long time, hopefully, for Spurs, Mikel Arteta and Arsenal more broadly. I've got to be pretty disappointed about this, right, because if you're going to face Thomas Frank's spurs at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in that atmosphere as was, that'd be a lovely little fillip after midweek. Instead, it's new manager, bounce, potential, plus also not knowing what to expect from. From your opponent.
- [04:33]
Arthur Rochet
Yeah, I think when you look at the season, though, Arsenal have been in this position, I believe, seven times in terms of facing a new manager, whether it's their first game or their second game. So he's kind of got a bit of practice, I guess, with facing the unexpected in terms of. Okay, the planning's all about this one manager and then, okay, all that has to go out the window. But I also believe that part of his thinking will be more about what Arsenal are doing, rather than totally thinking about Tottenham and the way they're going to set up. I think, especially after the Wolves draw in midweek, the focus does actually have to be more on how they kind of get through games and not only score goals to go ahead, but kill games off. So I believe even if maybe there will be some focus on Tottenham, a lot of it this week would have to be on themselves.
- [05:32]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, speaking of Wolves, the athletics, James Horncastle's likened Tudor to Winston Wolf in Pulp Fiction because he's the man you call to clean up someone else's mess. This is quite the clutter for him to clear, though. Just 12 available senior players and they've got to adapt to a new system, Dan. It's. It's not going to be easy.
- [05:49]
Dan Kilpatrick
No. And that's why, again, to my point and to James's point, you know, he feels like a good pick for this situation because he's used to coming in when squads are kind of on their knees. But, yeah, it's a really tough situation. I think spurs, yeah, roughly have 12 senior players fit. So really, in terms of decisions for Sunday, it's just, you know, how do you kind of fit those players into a passable system? He said in his first interview he was going to prioritize style over system. That I thought was interesting because he has played almost exclusively in Italy at back three and wing backs. He's been compared to Antonio Conte quite a lot, but he arguably doesn't have the players to play that system against Arsenal unless he puts Pollina in a back three with Dragus in and Van De Ven. So I hope he's going to be a bit more pragmatic and perhaps stick with the four, which would suit the players he's got available better. But, yeah, it's a really tough situation and I think a really kind of tough balancing act as well for Sunday, because Frank lost a lot of fans in a reverse fixture. And the way he played against Arsenal, he just set the team up at the Emirates to basically stodgify the game and try and score off a set piece. And no spurs fan wants to see that. And, well, that was one of the games I looked at before the turn of the year and thought, this guy is not a Spurs manager. You know, that's not the way to play. Even considering that, the relative states of the two clubs. So Tudor's got to be a bit more adventurous than that. He's got to play with more purpose than that. But equally trying to open up and have a go at this Arsenal team will be exactly what they want on Sunday, I think. So there has to be an element of caution, of trying to keep it tight, of trying to get to the hour mark with the game still in the balance. And then I think that's when the Arsenal players, particularly if City have won on Saturday night, will presumably start to feel the pressure and feel the nerves and. And the crowd can get on top of them. So difficult balancing act, difficult circumstances. But, you know, while I would never say this game is a free hit for spurs because it means so much to people, the pressure is definitely on
- [07:51]
Matt Davis Adams
Arsenal and that's because of what's happened of late. Right, Art Two wins in seven Premier League games. Have you got a theory as to what's going wrong at the moment?
- [08:00]
Arthur Rochet
Well, I believe there's two main issues, really. The first one, I kind of alluded to it before in terms of goals scored and how Arsenal, I think it's before even this run, say after the new year. But when you look to their games in December, coincidentally, it was Wolves and Brentford again back to back. But in those wins, Arsenal kept Wolves and Brentford in the game until very late. Wolves equalized, actually, at the Emirates, and Arsenal were lucky enough to kind of fight back and get a winner late on. But when you look at that trend throughout the season, there have been so many games where even if they have gone on to win, the game's still been, I guess, open for the opposition to try and nick a point. And they've kept Arsenal, I guess, honest right until the final whistle, which I don't think you see with too many teams who go on to be champions, even though they can have games where they do maybe get a late winner, like Manchester United used to do. So often when you look at the Manchester City teams of the past, let's say eight years, there are so many times where they've wrapped a game up by the hour mark and Arsenal haven't been doing that this season. The other thing that I'd probably point to is something that Arteta cited himself, and that's lack of composure in certain moments. So if you look back to the Forest game, which I'm sure it would be probably one of the positives of your season, Matt, there were so many occasions where it would just become a really frantic game where it would be a loose ball and Arsenal would. Or Arsenal players would just Kind of hoof the ball back into no man's land. Whereas I think Arteta would want them to actually just get the ball under control and try and, you know, get some rhythm in the into the game. And they weren't able to do that at the City ground. They weren't able to do that at Molineux either, even when they were two up. So I think those are the two real factors that I look at and say, okay, this is probably why Arsenal are where they are at the minute. And it doesn't feel like a major surprise to, I don't think anyone that's been watching them closely over the course
- [10:18]
Matt Davis Adams
of the winter, I'd say sounds like it's more about what's actually happening on the pitch than Dan. A lot of people citing a mentality issue as well. You know, they've been in this position before, lots of second place finishes. Is that something that you think might be affecting them or is that sort of too easy of an explanation?
- [10:35]
Dan Kilpatrick
I think it's probably too easy of an explanation. I think it would be unfair to say that Arsenal have a weak mentality or anything like that. But obviously pressure is a thing in football. I watched the game on Wednesday night and it did look like Arsenal were kind of playing with the weight on the world, the weight of the world on their shoulders at times. And obviously at 2 nil, briefly, and then at 2 1, they just looked like a side that really wanted the game to end. And, you know, obviously there was elements of time wasting and the kind of defensive substitutions and stuff that really spoke to that from Arteta as well. You would expect some champions, you know, a different side maybe to have thought, okay, we're two nil or two one up here against the bottom side of the League. Let's push on and, you know, get a couple more goals before the end. But that obviously wasn't the kind of approach from Arsenal. So I think there is an element of pressure. Brian Clough used to say that the most important factor in Nottingham Forest winning two European Cups was his side winning this really minor trophy called the Anglo Scottish cup that no one's ever heard of anymore, and it's kind of long since defunct because it taught his players kind of how to win and how to be winners. And obviously this is something that Pep Guardiola has talked a lot about in targeting League Cups, and he's targeting another League cup, as are Arsenal next month with a kind of relatively new squad. And I do think there's an element of that going from Runners up to being winners is a big jump and then there's a different mentality or approach required for that. And I do think Arsenal still need to learn how to win and the only way to do that is obviously to win. So the League cup will be an interesting test of that. But they don't quite feel yet like a side that, you know, are winners, per se. But I don't think it's fair to say that they're kind of sort of inherently weak or anything like that. They've just got to learn to do that as sort of every player does.
- [12:29]
Matt Davis Adams
They really need three points, though, on Sunday, don't they? Are, I mean, obviously dependent on what City do on Saturday night against Newcastle. But it's not must win territory, you wouldn't have thought, but given they got Chelsea coming up next and, you know, let's be honest, most teams have gone to Tottenham in the Premier League this season and won. It would be a disappointment if they came back with anything but three points.
- [12:49]
Arthur Rochet
Yeah, I think you're probably getting to must win territory now for every game if you're Arsenal. If we're being realistic and on the point on Tottenham being, I guess, a team that many teams have gotten one at, I don't think that's something that I'm paying much attention to, just because I've seen how Wolves have played against Arsenal home in a way that's really made me just understand that it doesn't matter where a team is in the form table or in the actual table, if they're coming to play against Arsenal, they're going to give it their best shot, basically. Rob Edwards spoke really well after, after the game on Wednesday and he spoke about knowing that Arsenal are going to be under pressure, so he wanted to kind of play with that and play with Emotion. And I think loads of teams are going to take a similar approach. Doesn't matter where they're going to be in the table. So, yeah, from an Arsenal perspective, I think every game is what is a must win at the minute. And sorry, my voice is going a bit. But yeah, I believe Emotion.
- [13:58]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, yeah.
- [14:01]
Arthur Rochet
When. When you're Arsenal in this position, you're. You're going to be the ones that are there to be shot at. So get used to it. And I think they. They understand that pressure as well.
- [14:12]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, next today we're going to talk about some of the individuals involved as we look at personnel and tactics. Well, the holidays have come and gone once again, but if you've forgotten to get that special someone in your life a gift. Well, Mint Mobile is extending their holiday offer of half off unlimited wireless. So here's the idea.
- [14:35]
Dan Kilpatrick
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- [14:35]
Matt Davis Adams
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- [15:24]
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- [16:00]
Matt Davis Adams
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair. So Arsenal went with Bukayo saka in the 10 position against Wigan and Wolves. How did that go Art? And is it something that we might see again on Sunday, do you think?
- [16:15]
Arthur Rochet
Yeah, I think for Sunday it will depend on who's available. So in terms of Saka is something that I've quite liked in these last two games. So he has played in those areas before about five years ago in in lockdown and even then he played quite well. And what I like about him in those areas is that he just offers a maybe a different profile to that of Havertz or Odegaard or even Ethan Munieri, who's out on loan at Marseille at the minute. And I think when you're going into this weekend's game, one thing I'm kind of interested in is Artetas probably still hasn't landed on his best attack yet this season and we're 27, 28 games in. When you're looking at the game not just in midweek, but there are Quite a few examples of Victor Jokers playing up front and not really making the ball stick. Whereas when Kai Havertz plays up there, he does a really good job at doing that and giving Arsenal platform to play from. So I, I don't know whether this could be an opportunity for Arteta to go with maybe combinations that he hasn't used before like Havertz up front and saka in the 10 and see what, what that can produce. But that's probably very wishful thinking, I imagine. I think he'll probably go with more tried and trusted setup, but those are the kind of thoughts that I'm having ahead of the weekend.
- [17:46]
Matt Davis Adams
One person you didn't mention there was a Bereza scored a hat trick in the reverse fixture, almost joined spurs in the summer. Hasn't actually found the net since that treble. I assume you're thinking therefore that he's not going to be involved, at least from the off in this one.
- [18:01]
Arthur Rochet
Yeah, when you look at his, I guess his minutes and his starts, they've. They've taken hits since December. His last two starts, I believe were Wigan in the FA cup, which he actually did play very well in. He was a bit deeper than Saka in that game because of a last minute change with Califiore getting injured in the warm up. Yeah, for him, I'm someone who would love to see him play more than he has been. But when you're looking at the teams and the lineups and how regularly Arteta goes to other players, it's just something that makes me feel like he won't be someone he turns to from the start against Tottenham. I hope I'm wrong because he's such an amazing footballer to watch and we all saw that in the first North London Derby. But it's just, I guess a question of where he'd fit against a Tottenham side who will be very up for that game.
- [18:57]
Matt Davis Adams
Igor Tudor, probably wishing that he had such a selection headache. Dan, I'm just looking at the Premier League website. Tottenham's injury, injuries, Odeberry Doggy Kulasevsky, Danzo Poirot, Madison Kudis, Richarlison, Bentonkur, Davis Bergval. He's gonna have difficulty even putting a team out, isn't he? I mean, on the one hand it simplifies things for him, but yeah, casting envious glances at the. The away bench on Sunday, I would have thought.
- [19:22]
Dan Kilpatrick
Yeah. And obviously Romero's first caption is suspended after that red card against Manchester United, which is a real headache that the club didn't need. So yeah, I think that really Tudor's got about 12 fit senior players and the question is, how do you get them in a formation that makes sense on the pitch? I think it will possibly come down to a choice between Kola Muani and Matthias Tell. Kolo Muani is suddenly one of the more interesting elements at spurs because Tudor really got a tune out of him at Juventus last season. He's been probably one of the most ineffective strikers in the entire Premier League this year. So the question is, can he go from one of the most ineffective strikers to a France international, which would obviously be great if he could and that would make a big difference to Tottenham in the final third. There's very few options, but a big question is whether Palinha plays in the back three or whether he plays in midfield or whether it doesn't really matter and he kind of does a bit of both in and out of possession. As I said, Tudor has favoured a back three, but he doesn't really have three fit centre backs available. So it'll be Dragus in and Van der Ven possibly in a four and then Archie Gray probably needed a full back and Pelinha could play back there. Yeah, there's not a huge amount of variation. Most of us could accurately get close to predicting this spurs team and I'm kind of more interested really in the way they're going to play rather than who actually plays.
- [20:57]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah. And that kind of feeds into what you were saying about Thomas Frank's approach in the reverse and stodging it up. I mean, I guess on one hand Tudor doesn't really need to worry about winning over the Tottenham fans too much. Right. If he's not going to be there for very long, if he thinks that's the best way to approach the game, maybe he's more liberated to do that. But on the other hand, if you've got 12 fit senior players and you're facing a team who are low on confidence, maybe you are better off just trying to get at them right from the off and see if they can be rattled as they have been in recent weeks.
- [21:28]
Dan Kilpatrick
Yeah, I mean, I think it's as I said at the top, I think it's a tricky one because the best way to lose this game is to get at them from the off, but probably the best way not to lose the game is to not do that. So to try and explain that if spurs are going to lose, then you want them to lose. Having had a go, you know, having taken the game to Arsenal, had some shots which they didn't have in the Revers fixture when the xg was minus 20 or something. And you want them to play with a bit of purpose and panache and get stuck in. But I think that probably plays into Arsenal's hands. So the best way not to lose would be to really set up to try and particularly with the players available would be, I think to set up and try and frustrate Arsenal, drag them down to spurs level, as Wolves did very successfully on Wednesday night. Make it a kind of tenser game on the margins. You really, from a Spurs perspective, I think want this game going into the final third still on, you know, ideally with spurs ahead or still level. And then I think that's when Arsenal, you know, the pressure will start to tell as it did against Wolves and that's when the crowd can get on top of them. So I think a fine balancing act. And Tudor spoke in his first interview with the club website of kind of, I think he said attacking but being smart, which I think speaks to this kind of need to show a bit more than spurs showdown to Frank, but also this, this call to pragmatism as well.
- [22:57]
Matt Davis Adams
So what does Arteta do then? Is it sideways backwards set pieces or is it, to quote an athletic podcast, handbrake off time?
- [23:08]
Arthur Rochet
To be fair, throughout the whole season, I believe that whole conversation is almost a two way street. It kind of depends how the opposition players. Wigan really tried to be brave in that first 20 minutes at the Emirates and they got punished because of that. And I think it showed why so many Premier League teams just decide to sit off Arsenal and have the game in front of them. So part of it will be, I think down to how spurs approach that first 5, 10 minutes. Other than that, I think everyone, Arsenal fans included, would like to see more entertaining football from them. I believe that. Well, actually when I look back in the most recent, I guess North London derbies at Tottenham, Arsenal always seem to score this one goal where Saka's on the break. So it's always a long ball to Saka and he's free. There was one where I think he cut inside maybe Davies a couple of years ago. There was another one the year before that where he was found quickly, then passed it to Erdogan who finished from just outside the box. So there have been occasions where they're able to play on the break at Tottenham, but very different managers. Yeah, going into this one, I'd like to see a bit more tempo in their play and hopefully just use the whole width of the pitch as well because there are times where as you say Matt, it gets into that rhythm of sideways and backwards passes and you're just waiting for something to happen basically. I think too often Arsenal matches feel like chess matches and I'd like them to feel like football matches again.
- [24:52]
Matt Davis Adams
I like that. Let's get some predictions then. Dan, what's going to happen, please?
- [24:56]
Dan Kilpatrick
Well, I mean I would bite your hand off for a stodgy draw right now and I think obviously it depends slightly on circumstances of Arsenal equalize in the last minute. It won't feel like this, but I think in most cases a stodgy draw would sort of feel like a win for spurs and absolutely do the job required of further denting Arsenal's title push and kind of moving spurs slightly away from danger. So with that in mind, I'll. I'll go for one all.
- [25:27]
Matt Davis Adams
Okay, fence sitting. How about you Art? Is it going to be a winner?
- [25:30]
Arthur Rochet
Yeah, I think it'll probably be one all to maybe let's say 70 minutes and then I think Arsenal just about edge it. Two, one.
- [25:41]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, I'm with you, Dan. A rare draw in this fixture. I think we shall see.
- [25:47]
Dan Kilpatrick
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [25:52]
Matt Davis Adams
Now this is the part of the show where with the help of our partners Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. We've got James Mackey back with us to talk all things North London Derby. James, have the ads changed in terms of the 90 minute market much given what's happened with both teams over the last couple of weeks?
- [26:10]
James Mackey
Not really, Matt. Not really. Look, Tottenham on the Betfair sportsbook are still the Big 92 outsiders to take all three points on Sunday. And you can see why spurs have lost their last three Premier League home games against Arsenal. As many as they had in their previous 23. But a nice start for spurs fans ahead of the match is Igor Tudors has won his first match in charge of each of his last five spells at a club starting with his second spell at Hajg Split in February 2020. Then we Verona, Marseille, Lazio and Juventus since. So that's one thing to cling on for spurs fans at the weekend. The manager bounce. He's real for him. Will it be on Sunday? We'll have to wait and see. Arsenal, they're still the really short prize favourites at 8 to 15 to get back on track after the disappointing draw to Wolves on Wednesday.
- [26:55]
Arthur Rochet
They've won.
- [26:55]
James Mackey
They have won six of the last seven Premier League games against spurs though. Including each of the last four, they do have that on their side. The draw is priced at 5 to 2 with the last time the North London Derby finished in a stalemate back in 2023. So even though I think they've only won two of the last seven in the league, Arsenal, the odds are heavily with them in a fixture that they dominated recently.
- [27:16]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, well that might ease any Arsenal fans anxieties bet builder wise. We're thinking there might be goals in this one than a card for a certain Tottenham midfielder.
- [27:26]
James Mackey
Yeah, I'm hoping so Matt. Look, I've actually found it very difficult really to pinpoint on players this week because with both sides you don't really know who's going to do what. So for the bet builder this week, three legs in it as usual, we'll start with both teams to score at 9 to 10. The market can't really split it actually whether there's going to be goals or whether there's not going to be goals. I was looking through and forward the last six North London derbies have seen both teams to score and Arsenal's last two Premier League games have seen them concede and both teams are scoring them as well. So that's nine to ten for the both teams to score. Secondly, I am going for Arsenal to win at 8:15 in the Matrons 90 market. Although they've only won two of the last seven like I said played. And the pressure is really on the Gunners. They can't afford to drop any more points with City in pursuit. So that will be really interesting to see how they get on. And I think they'll just have enough for spurs on the day. Finally to round off the bet builder I'm going to go for Paulinha to be carded for Spurs. He loves getting involved, he loves making tackles. He's been card in two of his last four games and he's 13 to 10 to be card in the North London Derby on Sunday. So overall those three selections come together for around a 6 to 1 bet builder. And the beauty of the to be carded market mention is that safe sub is attached to it. Meaning that if that leg hasn't won and Paulinia comes off and the player that replaces him will carry on that leg of the bet. And like I mentioned with back in Arsenal as well in the MatchOS 90 market that means if they're winning at 90 minutes Betfair were paying out regardless what happens in added time. And as we saw in the Wolves game Arsenal were 21 up. We paid out on the win for Arsenal obviously went on to draw. So really nice tool for punters to use.
- [28:53]
Dan Kilpatrick
Matt.
- [28:54]
Matt Davis Adams
Nice sounds good for this weekend. Speaking of which, James, you're a Liverpool fan and Forest, I'd like to wish you a very happy Saturday and an absolutely terrible Sunday.
- [29:03]
Dan Kilpatrick
Exactly the same.
- [29:05]
Matt Davis Adams
Cheers, James. We'll catch up with you soon.
- [29:08]
Dan Kilpatrick
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betver.
- [29:12]
Matt Davis Adams
Now then, Manchester City. Love playing Newcastle United at the Etihad. Add in the fact the Magpies flew back from Azerbaijan this week and you've got the recipe for more success in this fixture. For Pep's peeps perhaps. City have won their last six home games in all compsart, one of which was against Newcastle in the league cup semi. Only beaten once in the league on their own patch all season and Erling Haaland had a rest last weekend. I'm not trying to make you feel worse, I promise, but can you make a case for anything other than than a routine home win here?
- [29:40]
Arthur Rochet
To be fair, before the Wolves game we had the Newcastle game on the tv. So we're having a watch and it was like oh well. Some people were like wow, they're finding their shooting boots. But I don't think that's going to be replicated at all this weekend. I was actually speaking to a Newcastle fan while I was on and he said the last time they'd won away to Manchester City in the league was when they were still playing at Main Road. So. So yeah, I'm not getting my hopes up at all. I think when you look at Newcastle and what I guess threats they have, the. The one that really stood out earlier on this season was Harvey Barnes. So I guess you wonder whether he could cause similar problems. But I believe Manchester City will. Will come away with another home win
- [30:29]
Matt Davis Adams
against Newcastle and, and Newcastle not having Brunetti Morais is a really big miss for them, isn't it Dan? They've been generally not very good on the road in the Premier League of late, but they've won their last three in all comps away from home. Signs of life for them. But are they almost at the stage where they're focusing more on the Champions League at this point? They were eight points off fifth place. They've got Everton, Man United, Chelsea and Sunderland as their upcoming game. So if they're going to make a run at qualifying for the competition again next season, it seems unlikely, but it might have to start this weekend.
- [31:03]
Dan Kilpatrick
Yeah, I mean I would point out that one of those away games, the first one was at Frank spurs and, you know, sort of classic, classic Dr. Tottenham, wasn't it?
- [31:11]
Matt Davis Adams
So that doesn't count.
- [31:12]
Dan Kilpatrick
Well, as you say, spurs have not been great at home. Yeah, certainly signs of life. I mean, I think that the cups in general, obviously, you know, they lost a City in the League cup, you know, pretty convincingly, but they've got another good win at Villa in the FA cup, which is a very controversial game. You know, I think Newcastle will be starting to look, certainly that their fan base will be starting to look more towards the cups. And the great thing about that win over Karabag midweek is that really, Eddie Howe can just forget about the second leg. That tie is sorted. It's called the punishment. Well, it's known as the punishment round because you just don't want those extra gains. So to be able to kind of forget about one is a huge boost. And I think the fans will be looking at the FA cup and Champions League. I don't think they're going to win the Champions League, but they can have some really great nights in it and that means something as well. And then the FA cup is a competition that's there for them. They've got a taste of winning silverware from last season. They've got the squad on their day, I think, when they're purring to beat anyone. So that seems like a much more viable route now to a really successful season than, as you say, this. This congested League table, where they're going to have to do something really special to push their way back into sort of serious European contention.
- [32:31]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, they got city in the FA cup as well, but that one's at St James's park, which obviously changes things pretty dramatically in recent history. In that fixture, if City win all of their games, they'll win the League. You'd say exactly the same thing for Arsenal. Is it all going to come down to this match at the Etihad in April?
- [32:49]
Arthur Rochet
It could do. I was actually at seven a side last night and there's a lot of Arsenal fans, as you can imagine, in London, and they were saying the Carabao Cup's kind of the make or break for them. But when you look at the the League game and how Arsenal have performed at the Etihad in the League in recent seasons, they've drawn twice. I think they've shown that they don't need to be afraid going there. They were, I mean, a couple of seconds within a win last season. So to get over the line and win there, I think could actually give them a really good boost at A really important time because they play in April. So yeah, I think that league fixture between Manchester City and Arsenal could be a really big decider because I do feel like both teams will drop points before now and the end of the season it's probably about who drops more rather than who wins more, if that makes sense. Because Manchester City haven't been great throughout the season, Arsenal haven't been great since the turn of the year. So yeah, it might be more battle of attrition than anything.
- [33:57]
Matt Davis Adams
Well, City will certainly be backing themselves to take three points on Saturday night when they host Newcastle. And now that Everton's big Dickinson energy's flopped of late, the Toffees go into their Monday night matchup with Manchester United having failed to win a league game at their newish home since the 6th of December. Dan, I just can't get a read on Everton at all. They start the weekend eighth in the table. Are they. Are they one of the hardest teams to make a judgment on this season?
- [34:23]
Dan Kilpatrick
Yeah, I think so. You don't really know what you're going to get with Everton, do you? I mean, I think we should say that Moyes has done a very good job to get them to eighth in the table. You know, it doesn't feel like that long ago that Everton were perennially kind of scrapping around 16th, 17th in the table and he's come in and assuage that threat of relegation. They can be sort of thankful that they're kind of looking up the league now, not looking down it. And I think that's something to celebrate. I mean, look, I mean, as a, you know, the Tottenham person you've got on the pod, you know, I can tell you that moving to a new stadium is not easy and there are often kind of bedding in issues. And several years after they move, spurs still haven't really made their stadium home. So it does take time. And it doesn't hugely surprise me that Everton have struggled there since, since early December really, because I think these everyone, you know, supporters, players, the club as a whole needs time to kind of bed in. But I think, you know, Everton, Everton and, and sort of Brighton in a way, you know, feel like one of those teams where you never know what you're going to get, you know, homer away. I would never want to bet on, on their results because, yeah, they feel kind of wildly unpredictable to me.
- [35:38]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah. What about United then, Art? 13 days between games. By the time Monday rolls around, I mean, our tendency is to see that as a big advantage over other teams. Right. I just Wonder if there's maybe a possibility they might lose a little bit of momentum with so long between fixtures.
- [35:56]
Arthur Rochet
To be fair, when you look at their last fixture, so West Ham away, where they were one note down until the very last minute, I think they probably already lost that momentum that was built by the four successive wins. So the break came at a decent time, I'd say, for them. Because you don't let that, I guess, disappointment from the draw away to West Ham fester too much. You can actually reset mentally and physically. You can really focus on a few different maybe ideas that Carrick has for what he wants to see from certain players in certain positions. I see what you're saying, because you can lose, especially if you are in a good run, you can lose the rhythm that you'd built up. But I think that that performance away to West Ham probably already did that. So, yeah, I look at this as a really good opportunity to maybe start another run for them and really look at those Champions League spots and start hunting them, hunting them down.
- [36:58]
Matt Davis Adams
Until that West Ham game. Dan, it had been all positives, hadn't it, for Michael Carrick and there's been lots of beneficiaries, right, for the change of manager. Is there anybody in particular who you think has really felt the positives of Ruben Amarim leaving and Michael Carrick coming in?
- [37:14]
Dan Kilpatrick
Well, I noticed that Thomas Tuchel did an interview in the last couple of weeks and he name checked Luke Shaw, Cobbie Mainoo and Harry Maguire, unprompted as players that were now back in contention for, for England's World cup squad. So I would immediately pick those three, I mean, particularly, I think, Kobbie Mainoo, who was, I don't think, has started a league game under Reuben Amram. And it was immediately restored to the side by Carrick. And this new system has been excellent. And Bruno Fernandez is obviously playing in, I think what is fair to say is his preferred position, arguably the best player in the Premier League at the moment, I think is just kind of devastatingly good in the final third, is going for the all time Premier League assist record and is getting goals. But I mean, really, the transformation Carrick has made, I think has more or less impacted every player. You know, he's come in and he's lifted the level of the team and more or less every individual. I mean, I'm not following them as closely as our United correspondents, but I'd be surprised if there, if there was anyone in the squad who was playing worse in the last five games than they were under Amaram alright, well that
- [38:23]
Matt Davis Adams
closes the weekend's Premier League action. Everton against Man United on Monday night.
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- [40:09]
Matt Davis Adams
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair. Right, let's go. Quick fire through the rest of the games. We'll start with the relegation battle. Spurs Sandwich between Leeds and Forest who take on Villa and Liverpool respectively. Tough games for both the strugglers then Dan probably tougher for Forest given they were in Turkey on Thursday, albeit they had fun against Fenerbache. One team on their fourth manager of the season, one stuck with the guy who got them up against expectation. Do you think Farker is going to see the job through or will the Marinakis Madcap managerial master plan end up working?
- [40:48]
Dan Kilpatrick
I think Farker's done a great job. I think it felt like Leeds were itching to sack him around sort of September October, but he just started producing results and Leeds have been pretty competitive since then. I worry for Forest because I think West Ham have the momentum. There's been a lot of change there obviously this year and I think the players are still kind of pining for Nuno. I Think that was the sacking that really no one at the club beyond kind of Edu and seemingly the owner wanted to happen, the fans didn't want it to happen, the players didn't want it to happen. And it's had a huge impact on their season. So yeah, who knows? But if you're asking me now, I've got more optimism for Leeds than I do for Forest.
- [41:32]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, that's depressing.
- [41:33]
Dan Kilpatrick
Let's focus on the sorry Matt instead.
- [41:36]
Matt Davis Adams
Villa and Liverpool. Villa only from six in the league. Liverpool two from eight. So one both or neither. Playing Champions League football next season, I
- [41:45]
Arthur Rochet
still think he'll be Villa out of the two. So I'd go one and my one would be Villa. I just feel like the buffer they've already kind of built with that ridiculous run of wins earlier this season, I think that should keep them because the gap between them and Liverpool is Manchester United and Chelsea. So I believe that that should keep them out of that issue, if that makes sense. Liverpool, I watch their games and sometimes I think, oh, these are. These are the best team in the league. And then 20 minutes later it's the complete opposite. So I. I think they're just too inconsistent to really get even get up to third, really. Which seems like a ridiculous thing to say for a team who were champions last season. But that's just been the story of their season. I think even when they were winning games right at the start of the season, it was always a late winner, it was always okay, they played terribly, but they've won. I think that's the story of their whole season and we're seeing that in their placement in the table. So yeah, I'd say Villa to finish in the Champions League spots over Liverpool.
- [42:56]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, all about points rather than style at this stage of the season, particularly if you're trying to stay up. West Ham 3 behind Forest. They host Bournemouth in today's tea time tussle. Burnley go to Chelsea. Wolves are at Selhurst park to face a slightly beleaguered looking Crystal Palace. In terms of West Ham, as you said, Dan, the momentum with them despite the concession of late goals against Chelsea and United. And Nuno, he's got the bonus of vengeance if he can send one of Forest or Spurs down. But Saturday feels quite must. Winnie right against Bournemouth. After that you go away to Liverpool away to Fulham, City at home and Villa away.
- [43:34]
Dan Kilpatrick
Yeah, West Ham do have tough fixtures and you wonder how much they will look back at conceding or squandering a two nil lead. Against Chelsea, then obviously conceding that stoppage time equalize against United. It's a big if, but you know, that would have been. Had they held on in both those games, they'd have had five wins in a row and that would just be phenomenal momentum and top four type form. So I think that they've got a bit of wind in their sails. West Ham, there's been much made of the kind of impact of Paco Jemez, I think you pronounce it the new assistant coach who's come in and liberated things a little bit, got them back on the front foot. You'd rather have points on the board. So you'd rather be in the position of Spurs, Leighton, Forest, undoubtedly. But momentum is not to be sniffed at and certainly in the case of Tottenham, they don't have any of that. They've got one win in 12 or something and West Ham do. So you're right in saying it's a big game from them, but if I was one of their fans or indeed in their squad, I'd be kind of looking ahead with a degree of optimism. Now.
- [44:36]
Matt Davis Adams
Burnley had a bit of momentum, didn't they, Art? For a little while at least, when they beat palace last time out in the league. And then they went and squandered it by losing it home to a mid table League one side in Mansfield in the FA cup last weekend. As mentioned, they go to Chelsea. I mean, was it too little, too late anyway, that win at Selhurst Park? Not many people predicting a miraculous comeback from Scott Parker's team.
- [44:57]
Arthur Rochet
Yeah, I think so. When you look at the points Tally, they're on 18 after that win and they're still six points off West Ham, who people consider doomed, or at least did until this recent run. So yeah, I think Burnley and I mentioned it on here before how kind of disappointed I was with them because I felt like this year would be slightly different to when they came up in previous seasons. And to be fair, when I've watched Wolves play, they actually, especially in 2026, they feel like a better team to watch than Burnley for the most part. So, yeah, I think those two are done basically. And actually when you look at, I guess, the state of the league, which new teams you want coming up versus the ones that actually do, it's the ones that are actually going to have a go. It's been really encouraging to see Leeds. Obviously they had a difficult start, but they made those tweaks and they've had a go at teams and they've been rewarded for that. So I'm glad that they have a bit of, I guess of a buffer, a cushion between them and relegation. But yeah, for those two, I think it's done.
- [46:13]
Matt Davis Adams
Couple more games to mention before we wrap the things up. One of them is Sunderland against Fulham. Dan, it's quite interesting this actually. Just what a place. And two points between them. Both in no sort of form in the league. Sunderland lost three of four, Fulham lost their last three in a row. If I had to press you now, who's going to Finish higher when 38 games have been played?
- [46:34]
Arthur Rochet
Fulham.
- [46:38]
Matt Davis Adams
It's quite a difficult one to have a strong opinion on either way, I'd suggest.
- [46:42]
Dan Kilpatrick
Yeah, it is. I'm a afraid I've really liked what Sunderland have done since they've come back into the league and I think it's worth remembering that in the last two Premier League seasons, both the bottom three just could not compete and went straight back down. So credit to Leeds and Sunderland, but particularly Sunderland for the way they've played since they've come back up. They made a lot of signings in the summer and I wasn't sure about the approach. It felt, you know, it felt like it might almost be too much given how well they played last season in the championship. But they've been really competitive. They've made the stadium alight, a place you really, really don't want to go. The crowd get on top of you, the team gets on top of you. And they're just a proper, well coached competitive Premier League side. So I've liked watching them. But. And equally, you know, Fulham had a rough start and I thought they might slip into danger. But Marcos Silva's responded to the loss of key players again by doing a great job. And in Harry Wilson, they've got one of the players of the Premier League season. So I'm not sure who's going to finish higher, but I think they both deserve a lot of credit for the way they performed in the circumstances.
- [47:49]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, well done for making that sound interesting. Finally, I think this one actually is quite well set up. It's the Ben and Bloom beef. Brentford against Brighton. Here's an impolite question for you. Is this the manager of the season versus the least impressive manager of the season who hasn't lost his job yet?
- [48:08]
Arthur Rochet
To be fair, when you mentioned that, I think this season a lot of people have kind of just forgotten about Brighton and Herzler. They don't feel like they've made as big an impression as they have in previous years. Whether that's when they've played against the big teams or just how well they've performed in general. So yeah, I'd probably go along with that because when you look at Brentford there, right there with Liverpool, and to be fair, I think when you look at how they play, they're just as impressive as Sunderland and I don't mean that as a disrespect to either side. It's more so that going into this season you wouldn't have expected Brentford with a new manager to play as well as they have done and taken so many points at this point in the year. So I think, yeah, Brentford, hopefully they get rewarded with some form of European football. I reckon they're a club that are able to plan for that as well because it was interesting listening to Ange earlier in the week where he said some clubs are actually scared of getting European football because they'd have to, you know, deal with all the extra hassle. But yeah, I believe that Brentford will probably be a club that really embrace it.
- [49:23]
Matt Davis Adams
A win on Saturday would help them toward that end. Loads of really intriguing fixtures, every point vital from this stage onwards. That's where we're going to leave things for today though. My thanks to Dan and to our and to producers Jay and John and to you of course, for listening. Enjoy the weekend's games and we'll catch
- [49:39]
Dan Kilpatrick
up with you soon.
- [49:41]
Matt Davis Adams
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Jay Beale and John Rogers and the presenter was Matt Davis Adams. The Executive producer is Adie Moorhead.
- [49:50]
Dan Kilpatrick
To listen to other great athletic podcasts
- [49:52]
Matt Davis Adams
for free, including our dedicated club shows.
- [49:54]
Arthur Rochet
Search for the Athletic in all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic
- [49:59]
Matt Davis Adams
media company production and proudly sponsored by Betfair.
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