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- [00:00]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
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- [00:20]
Mark Bittman
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- [00:55]
From the podcast Food with Mark Bittman. I am not a sentimental person, but I am a romantic. And my plan is to cook my beloved a beautiful meal on Valentine's Day. If you're doing the same, let me recommend Whole Foods Market as the place to plan the perfectly indulgent and romantic evening at home. And don't forget flowers. Taste the love all month at Whole Foods Market.
- [01:24]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
The Athletic fc.
- [01:27]
Matt Davis Adams
Welcome to the preview from the Athletic fc. It's the show where we get you set for the weekend's Premier League action. This week we're looking ahead to Tottenham Hotspur against Manchester City. And on board today, we have two stalwarts of this club podcast. Stu James is here. How you doing, Stu?
- [01:46]
Stu James
I'm very well, thank you. Good morning, Matt.
- [01:48]
Matt Davis Adams
Morning to you too. We've also got fresh from his Australian odyssey, a welcome home to Tim Spears. You okay, Tim?
- [01:53]
Tim Spears
Welcome.
- [01:53]
Ah, thanks, yeah. Good to see you, Matt.
- [01:55]
Matt Davis Adams
Not even the first time I've welcomed you home, to be totally honest. So it will definitely be the last, I'll say that much. Right. Later in the show, we're going to get into some of the other big matchups of match week 24. But first, let's get to our feature presentation. So then, is it Tottenham, the tumultuous or sprightly spurs pitching up in North London this weekend? Frank's European Freewheelers beat Eintracht Frankfurt 20 on Wednesday to secure a fourth place finish in the Champions League league phase. Meanwhile, Thomas Tank in the Prem a snatch point at Burnley last weekend did little to win over the doubters in the away End might be Stew though. A slightly lower pressure game for him this one. Not so much expectation on it. Coming into it off the back of a good win. Already beaten City this season. Yeah.
- [02:42]
Stu James
Though I don't know whether there's much expectation with spurs full stop now. And I don't say that in a glib way. I just think drawing two two at Burnley last Saturday wasn't really that surprising domestically. I just think we've become used to seeing Tottenham toiling now and really looking like a team without any clear identity. Obviously the Champions League is a totally different story. You know, when I think about this scenario now in the game this weekend, my mind goes back. You know, you think of Frank, spurs, man, City. It goes back to the opening day of the 2021, 22 season when Nuno was in charge. Tottenham won 1 nil courtesy of a goal from Son. It was a really well organized counter attacking display, albeit with a man in charge then who I don't think anyone really thought of as a Spurs manager. And there's kind of parallels with that. Now perhaps Thomas Frank can engineer something similar this weekend, but even if he does, what does it really mean? Matt, you know, there's a much broader picture here. I don't think beating Manchester City in a one off game will repair the damage caused by the matches against Brentford, Bournemouth, West Ham and Burnley. So that's the challenge for him to prove over a longer period of time that he can get Tottenham not just getting results, but playing in a way that the fans want to see. And I think that's going to be really difficult for him. I think when you get to the situation he's in now where a lot of fans have clearly turned, that's really hard to row back from there.
- [04:04]
Matt Davis Adams
So I was going to say, Tim, would he be looking to that reverse meeting for inspiration? But maybe he can't do that. Does he have to go out and be on the front foot in this game and try and entertain to win over some of the skeptics as much as win points.
- [04:19]
Tim Spears
Pretty difficult one, you know, when you've got Stu James saying if they're going to win, what does it even mean? You know, it's. It's pretty deep. We're getting pretty existential here on Thomas Frank and I do struggle to see a way out. It is mad, this kind of this like Jekyll and Hyde scenario. I don't remember anything like it really in terms of their European form being so good and the Premier League forming so bad, but also just like the feeling Amongst the fans, like, it's so. It's so incredibly toxic. I'm sure we've all seen the clips and the videos from the recent sort of domestic games and just completely different in Europe and, like, you can't even really pinpoint, like a decent game for them in terms of, like, oh, yeah, spurs might win that one. Like, it's not like they turn up in the big games. It's not like they beat the teams that are threatened with relegation. Feels like an awful long time ago. Now, the Man City game in August, I mean, for a start, the front three they had that day won't be playing here. They got so many injuries. Curtis and Richarlison are out. Brendan Johnson scored that day. Obviously he's been sold. But yeah, they do have this weird thing with Man City. Since the start of 1920 season, they've beaten them eight times, which surely no other team comes close to that. Eight wins against them in the last sort of seven years. That's an awful lot against the Pep Guardiola team. So they are a bit of a bogey team for City and they have had this sort of formula of sort of 30% possession, sitting deep and trying to beat City on the counter attack. Now, whether Frank is brave enough to do that at home to City with a rabid fan base ready to turn on him from minute one is a really interesting conundrum, but that's probably the only way that he's going to be able to beat City.
- [05:53]
Matt Davis Adams
In terms of a player's perspective, Stu, what's the reasoning behind this double life in Europe in the Premier League? Is it purely a pressure thing? As in, nobody's expecting them to win the Champions League, but they step onto the pitch at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in a Premier League game and think, oh, God, not this again, it's about to turn toxic.
- [06:12]
Stu James
I do think that latter point you made there about playing at home, spurs having this terrible record, there's no two ways about it. The Tottenham players cannot look forward to going out and playing at Tottenham at this moment in time. But in terms of the first point you made there, it was really interesting question and answer that Anthony Gordon faced and gave this week, right, when he was asked, what do you see as the difference between the two? Because Tottenham aren't alone in being in this situation as a Premier League club that's thriving in the Champions League but struggling in the Premier League. And, you know, Gordon really described two completely different matches that are being played, not just the sort of physicality of the Premier League. The huge emphasis on set play and also how the games differ from a transitional point of view. I mean, I watched Arsenal, Inter Milan week before last, and it was such an open game and you don't seem to see that so much in the Premier League. So, you know, there's an excuse of sorts for some clubs there. But I think, you know, Tottenham's home form is just absolutely shocking and it's really hard to get the fans onside when you're playing like that consistently in front of them. So, yeah, it's clearly a really challenging time. Tim just said, you know, about hard to see a way out for Frank, and I feel like that too. I think it's just when. And I wouldn't be surprised if they do that at the end of the season. I think doing it now, you know, the guy has had great success in the Champions League so far. You know, we can't. We can't ignore that part, but they're not that far off being dragged into a relegation battle.
- [07:43]
Tim Spears
I think I would just say on the Champions League it is impressive and we are maybe ignoring it a little bit that how well they're doing. I mean, fourth in the table, you can't really argue. But I mean, they did have a really good draw. If you look at the. The teams that they played, I think four of them finished 31st or lower in the table and seven of them were 17th or lower. You know, the toughest game they had was PSG Away. They were brilliant in that match, but obviously they ended up losing it. That was their only defeat. But you would have to say the likes of, you know, Slavia Prague and Copenhagen, how well would they be doing in the Premier League? Plus aligned with Stu's point about style of play, I mean, Anthony Gordon's comments, pretty much about as interesting as a pretty much press conference will ever get, to be honest. Maybe there's an element of Frank maybe struggling to sort of combine both competitions in terms of his rotation. Not helped by injuries with his squad. I mean, he's never had this before, as in managing in Europe and domestically, I don't think during his managerial career. And maybe there's a slight aspect of prioritising one a little bit too much over the other. And as for Stu's point about a relegation battle, I mean, I think they're in one already, to be honest. If you look at the direction of travel, two wins are 14. You know, they're only going one way. They should already be thinking about staying in the Premier League first and foremost, because I Think they're already in a relegation battle.
- [08:52]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, they start the weekend eight points above that perforated line. As for Manchester City, they beat Galatasaray 2 nil. So they also booked a top eight finish in a path through to the round of 16 in the Champions League. And after three draws, they got back to being good citizens in the Premier League last weekend when they beat Wolves at the Etihad. So street, that means they're four points behind Arsenal after they lost as the momentum swung back in favor of Guardiola's team.
- [09:19]
Stu James
I'm not sure. I don't think the first winning four in league for City sort of. And sorry, Tim, in this case, a victory over the Premier League's bottom team qualifies as a is a momentum shift even allowing for Arsenal slip up. I think City needs to show some consistency in their results. That said, there's no doubt about it, they would have been hugely grateful to United for inflicting that defeat at the Emirates last Sunday. And I think it would be interesting to. To know, to see what Guardiola and his players say behind closed doors or in time, even publicly about Arsenal's run of form. If this carries on and they continue City to chip away at the deficit because we can't get away from it. There is this narrative around Arsenal. Can they handle the pressure? And I'll be honest, like watching that last Sunday, that was the first time for, you know, a while when the final whistle went, I thought City are going to end up winning this again. Really interesting to see the next few games. I think City have got obviously spurs away, Newcastle at home, Liverpool away. That would be a challenging run even if Liverpool aren't in great form. We've just talked about spurs problems and Newcastle have been a bit all over the shop. But I think we'll have a better idea of whether City are going to get into that groove that we've kept talking about on here. Matt, are they going to now go and win a succession of games and really turn the screw in, put pressure on Arsenal?
- [10:35]
Tim Spears
If I was Pep, I'd be loading up on the mind games at the moment. I don't know how friendly him and Arteta are, but you should really be playing on that sort of master apprentice vibe, questioning how much Leeds want to win it this weekend and all that stuff. Fergie's been there many times before because, yeah, the Arsenal look ready to crack to me.
- [10:52]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, well, it's been a week for footballers saying interesting things in the media post match. Bernardo Silva talking about the difference between City's more transitional and possession based players. Doku Semenyo, Marmus Haaland in the former category and Foden, Turkey Ryders, O'Reilly and Bernardo Silva himself in the latter. Tim, they do have this ludicrous depth and variety, but is that making it a bit more difficult to actually shape what is their new look identity for Guardiola?
- [11:22]
Tim Spears
I do think they're much more adaptable than they used to be. Bernardo Silva's comments were really interesting. He was basically saying that Pep's sort of basic principles and ideas just don't change much at all, really, and the concepts of Pep will never change, I think he said. But it does talk to what we've kind of spoken about in terms of like Premier League intensity and the need of having players to carry the ball rather than just sort of death by a thousand passes, which is something Guardiola's been trying to infiltrate in his squad for, you know, a few seasons now. And he's had to add pace and physicality to adapt to how the Premier League is changing. And he, and he sees these changes coming, you know, far quicker than we do, for sure. But teams definitely defend more aggressively now. There's no doubt about that. There's less sort of sitting off and saying, you know, go on, try and play through us, which sort of leads to less control, which obviously we know that that's what Guardiola sort of yearns for and I guess sort of leads to more anarchy and open play. So you need players like Doku and Semenya, who I think is a great addition, and Mahmouche. And we are seeing City have sort of less possession now and more counter attacks. But they can also, you know, with Foden, Rodri, Bernardo, they can still play the sort of classic Pep way. So they can do both now. But most importantly, you know, they've got the money to do both. They can basically buy two teams to be adaptable and to play a bit counter attacking and more intensity and play with death by a thousand passes. So I think in the long run it's more strings to their bow, but it certainly makes them harder to work out from an opposition point of view.
- [12:50]
Matt Davis Adams
Right, we've mentioned a few names there. We're going to talk more personnel next and where each team will look to hurt each other.
- [13:01]
Mark Bittman
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- [13:34]
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- [13:47]
Tim Spears
Hmm.
- [13:48]
Mark Bittman
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- [14:03]
Progressive Insurance Announcer
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching your insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money. When you bundle your home and auto policies, the process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.
- [14:37]
Matt Davis Adams
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair. So we mentioned Spurs 20 victory at the Etihad earlier this season. They were organised, they were aggressive, they pressed high up the pitch, they ended James Trafford's interest in the number one shirt at City in the process. But as Tim mentioned earlier Stu, this is going to be two very different looking teams because spurs attack is going to be completely different given that two of them were injured and one of them's left. You think Odebear Simmons and one of Kolemuane or Solanke could cause City similar.
- [15:09]
Stu James
Issues here, but I think they might take encouragement from in the week. Javis Humans was really impressive in Frankfurt. I thought that was probably one of his best games for Tottenham. He was coming deep a lot early on and getting on the ball and then later on more advanced, you know, picking up the ball in the kind of spaces you want him to get in possession. Driving with the ball at times too. Played a significant part in the first goal with that deep cross to the back post that Romero headed back across for Kola Moani to convert. So it's easy to forget Xavi sim is only 22 years old because he made his first team debut when he was about seven and he's had so many clubs. He's been around forever and I think I expected more from him when he came to Tottenham, but maybe we overlook that there needs to be a period of adaptation. He's also coming into a club that's going through so much other change with the manager. Personnel problems last season, not been an easy season for anyone. I mean, I remember seeing him get subbed off early this season as a sub, which is about, you know, as humiliating as it gets. So he's had a tough time of it, but there are signs now that he's coming out the other side. Fascinated to see how things work out for him because I would. I love watching him. When he was coming through, there was so much hype about him, you know, right from when he was 9, 10 years old at Barcelona. He was seen as a superstar in the waiting. So yeah, it's interesting what they might do the weekend. Color Moane is a curious case, right? I mean, we've just been talking about the complete difference in form in the Premier League and the, and the Champions League. So 15 Premier League appearances this season. He's not got a goal or an assist. Seven Champions League appearances. He's got three goals and two assists. It's really strange all of that. Those players you mentioned there, Matt. There was some nice link up play in the first half between Kolamuani Siemens and Ode Bear. Ended up with the latter hit in the post. I'd say Solanke is probably more likely to start on the basis that he came off the bench in the week. Not because he scored, but I just look at that and think, oh, maybe he's holding him back for the weekend and he trusts him a bit more than Kolo Moane. So they'll need them to be on the top of their game. Interesting to see what they can do on the weekend.
- [17:09]
Matt Davis Adams
Probably just as likely to rely on defenders for goals though, right? Tim Van De Ven and Romero, they're joint second top scorers in the league with four goals each. That's nice for them, but it feels a bit suboptimal to me.
- [17:21]
Tim Spears
Yeah, not ideal. I mean, I guess they are their two most sort of committed players in both boxes. I mean, I love them as a partnership. They're definitely sort of my favorite thing about Spurs, I'd say. I mean, they're just so physical, so wholehearted, you know, so fast and so strong in Van De Ven's case and so nuts in Romero's case. I mean, what he did last week at Burnley was just him in the microcosm for Burnley's second goal. He just completely goes Walkabout and makes no effort to get back and Burnley score and then he pops up with this sort of incredible diving header for the equalizer. Such a powerful header. But, yeah, in terms of attack, I mean, there's just such a lack of consistency from so many players not helped by the injuries. We do have to add that as a caveat constantly. And they've really missed Solanke as that focal point. I think he's quite underrated, to be honest. I think he offers a lot in terms of strength and linking the play and obviously a regular goal scorer. And spurs just don't create anything from open play. I mean, how many times have we seen an XG of sort of less of less than 0.5 this season? How often have we seen Thomas Frank play with two attacking players at best, you know, Kudus and one other. Lots of dribbles, lots of crosses to no one, confusing modes of attack, two defensive midfielders. It's just all a bit of a mess, really. But Stu's made a really good point on Simmons. He just hasn't really stepped up. He's a player you can build a team around, you know, that's how good he is. But up until now, they've probably been asking a little bit too much of him. And it's taken him a little while to get used to an incredibly physical Premier League. You know, Anthony Gordon calling it the most physical he's ever known it in the Premier League. And I think Simmons has definitely struggled with that. There's a lot to fix, to be honest. And I don't see Thomas Frank fixing all of these problems in the quick space of time that he needs to. To turn things around. And I feel like the fans have already gone. It feels like an impossible task at the moment.
- [19:13]
Stu James
I have a potential fix for you. You know, I love a bit of Premier League nostalgia. Oh, yeah, Romero and Van De Ven. Is there a potential Paul Warhurst in here? I mean, have we got a centre back ready to become a Steve Walsh Dion Dublin or. Yeah, Warhurst, as he did for Sheffield Wednesday, wasn't it? He scored 1212. It was ridiculous. And he was going to get picked for England. Can we see, you know, Romero leading the line or Van De Ven?
- [19:38]
Tim Spears
Do we have a more modern reference for our younger listeners there, Stu?
- [19:40]
Stu James
Because there are qu Generally not with me, as it was Liam Brady last week. We're going back to his 1978. Crikey, Matt, can you throw anything in here? Can you think of anyone who's been converted in more Recent times, they tend.
- [19:51]
Matt Davis Adams
To go the other way, don't they? They tend to go from striker to center back. So my more modern reference would be Chris Sutton. So I think we should probably just move on at this stage. We can talk about strikers, though. Stu Erling Haaland back on the, on the score sheet after being rested against Wolves. He scored midweek first goal from open play since December 20th. Is that him getting his groove back? What's been behind his slump?
- [20:17]
Stu James
Well, we will see. I mean, it's curious hearing Guardiola talk about him being exhausted and he. He started him against Exeter, didn't he? I mean, I just couldn't get my head around that. You know, there's a perfect opportunity to leave someone out. I'm sure the Exeter players probably thought it was great because, you know, you want to be on the pitch with the best players. They were never going to win the game, with all due respect, whoever City played that day. But yeah, he's looked a little bit out of sorts. I think it's always difficult to, to read what's going on in Haaland's mind because he can look frustrated at times because the way City play doesn't touch the ball that much. And sometimes you look at his body language when a ball doesn't come and he thinks it should, but he could be doing that when he's in the groove, in bang on form.
- [20:55]
Tim Spears
It was really interesting to hear Pep talk about Haaland and the sort of psychology behind how incredibly strongly he defended him. You know, we have seen Pep criticize his players before. Sometimes not directly, but sometimes, you know, you can really get the hit. Whereas with Harland, yeah, he's come out and said exhausted was quite a strong word. And then I think he also said this week that his teammates just aren't creating enough for him. But the point about exhaustion, he scored two in 10. All those 10 matches have come since Dec. 27 to Jan. 28. That's 10 matches in a very short space time. And he scored 2, 2 in 10 there. In the previous 28 matches for club and country, he scored 38 goals in 28. Wow. So it's. I mean, that's just astonishing. But yeah, the difference between how prolific he was and how this Baron run is quite stark. But maybe he's needed a bit of a break of a week or two.
- [21:47]
Matt Davis Adams
What's going to happen then, Tim? What's the score going to be on Sunday?
- [21:50]
Tim Spears
Oh, blimey. Nil three.
- [21:53]
Matt Davis Adams
Blimey, Stu, you going so bold.
- [21:55]
Stu James
I'm surprised you even bother coming to me on these predictions now, Matt might have been so bad over the last few weeks.
- [22:00]
Matt Davis Adams
N. Okay, we're thinking a City win then. I wouldn't disagree with you there. This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair. Now this is the part of the show where with the help of our partners Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. We've got James Mackey back with us. James, big weekend of football in the Premier League. I mean you're Liverpool are hosting Newcastle. My instinct is to say 4:3, but it actually hasn't been 4:3 in that game for years. But I mean you hit what, six in midweek so probably feeling a bit better about things.
- [22:31]
James Mackey
Oh, I don't know, Matt. Look, I really don't know what what Liverpool are going to turn up each week, but it's a cracking weekend of football, isn't it?
- [22:38]
Matt Davis Adams
It sure is. And we are focusing on Tottenham Hotspur against Manchester City. I mean spurs at home. You normally think only one thing's going to happen. Which way do you see this one going?
- [22:49]
James Mackey
Yeah, the bet Fair Sports has the home side spurs as the 165 outsiders to win the game on Sunday. But they are a bit of a bogey team actually for City. They've completed the Premier League double over Manchester City nine times so far, more than they have any other opponent, which is actually not surprising over their recent fixtures because City haven't got a great record against them. On the flip side though, their recent form spurs in the league is nothing to shout home about being winless in their last five Premier League matches. So that's where they're priced at 16 five man. City are the eight to 13 favorites to take all three points and keep the pressure on Arsenal at the top of the table. And like I said, for all the Spurs City's bogey side, they have actually won their last two away league games against spurs, which was surprising to see when I was going through. So a lot of contrasting stats here. The draw is priced at 12 to 5, but the last time these two played out a stalemate was back in 2023 with some seven games ago. So normally one of the teams win. Which one it will be we'll have to wait and find out on Sunday. Matt.
- [23:45]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, you've got a bet builder for us and I quite like the look of this one. Tell me more.
- [23:48]
James Mackey
Yeah, the bet builder this week. Three legs in it as usual. And we'll start with City's new signing, Antoine Semeno. He's scored five goals in his last eight Premier League appearances, the joint most of any player in that time frame and one of those was actually against spurs with a last minute winner when he was his last game at Bournemouth. So really interesting. He's nine to five to score any time in the game. He's the first leg of the bet builder. Next up we'll focus on Tottenham's captain Christian romero, who has five yellow cards in his last 12 games. And in these big games he absolutely loves getting involved. He has no right to get involved in any situation. It could be dissent, it could be a bad tackle, it could be giving away a penalty. You've got a lot running for you here with Christian Romero to be carded. So at 158 he goes in as the second leg for the bet build and I'm going to finish it off and I'm going to go for City to take all 3 points 8 to 13. They can't afford to drop any more points now the four points behind Arsenal, they're 813 in the Matros 90 market. They've won their last two away to spurs and I think they can make it three on the spin. So overall Matt, those three selections come together for around a 172 bet builder and the beauty of the goal scorer and to be carded. Markets mentioned in that they have say sub attached to them meaning that if those legs haven't won and those players come off, the player that replaced them carries on that leg of the bet. And like I mentioned we're back in city in the Machos 90 market. That means if they're winning at 90 minutes, Betfair will be paying out regardless what happens at times. The two nice features there with the bet builder.
- [25:08]
Matt Davis Adams
Sounds good to me James, appreciate your time. Enjoy the weekend's action. This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betwehr. Now then, Arsenal could have had an 11 point lead on City, but after back to back goalless draws and a defeat against Manchester United, the gap is just four points. This is ahead of their game against Leeds. So a trip to Ellen Road in a game they could really do with winning. Is this Tim, where we see what Arsenal are made of? And why on earth is this game not on telly here in the uk?
- [25:40]
Tim Spears
Yeah, it is a bit ridiculous. It's not on TV I think even regardless of when this was picked, whether it was picked by the TV guys in July or now Leeds v Arsenal, you know one's going to be in a relegation battle, one's going to be in a Title scrap. You want to watch it? It's very weird, but. Yeah, no, that's your question, I guess. Yeah, we're going to see what Arsenal are made of. I think it's probably an ideal match for them. It won't be the prettiest, lots of set pieces and whatever. It's a difficult one to sort of summarize, really. Is this the start of a decline for Arsenal or is it just a bit of a customary winter blip? I mean, they do do this every year, the three matches where they haven't won. And the Man United game was a little bit alarming. They did look a bit inhibited to me. And Art Durasher did a really good piece on the Emirates crowd this week and how it's suggesting that that's maybe not helping their sort of current home form. And things are getting a little bit twitchy and Arteta making four substitutions in the 55th minute or whatever it was, suggests that he's panicking a little bit to me. So, yeah, there's a lot on his shoulders right now to sort of refocus the squad immediately, really. You know, if you imagine that they lost here and City won and the gaps, one point, the pressure is just going to be enormous going into a match against Sunderland the week after. So, yeah, it's going to be physical, it's going to be intense. And as long as Arsenal match Leeds physical presence, which is enormous and their intensity, then they should be fine. I don't think it's going to be pretty to watch, but I think it's probably the ideal match for them.
- [27:12]
Matt Davis Adams
As Tim says to you, they do have this little wobble it seems, every year, Arsenal, but they were able to rest pretty much everybody that they needed to in midweek as they made it eight wins from eight in the Champions League. And actually this game ought to suit them more than a lot of the recent games that they've had. Right, because this is just going to be a scrap and playing for set pieces and that's where they excel.
- [27:35]
Stu James
Yeah, that's the way Leeds have played, isn't it, this season, really? You looked at their recruitment in the summer and they thought they'd go a different way. Targeted strong, powerful, physical players. And that's been a platform for Leeds to be as good as they have been this season, which is really competitive in the Premier League. So, yeah, it's really interesting how Arsenal handled all this. Now. I think there are other games that will tell us more about Arsenal's title credentials than maybe Elland Road Because I think what you've just said, it will really suit them going there. I mean, it is curious. Tim just mentioned Arthur Rocher's piece and James Nicholas did one earlier in the week saying about Arsenal being their own worst enemies. Because you have to stop and pause for a minute and think, okay, you're top of the Premier League with a four point lead. You've just sailed through the Champions League as the best team in the Champions League league phase. You've got an EFL cup semi final second leg that you go into at home and you're already leading and you're still in the FA Cup. I mean, try being a Swansea City fan if you think that's a crisis, what Arsenal are going through at the minute. I think though, this anxiety, it comes from so many things, right? They finished second three seasons running. There's this feeling also, Matt, that they've got the best squad they've had for a long time, rightly so. They've got incredible depth. City haven't been at their best. Liverpool away off it, you know, Chelsea are still in transition. It's a great opportunity for Arsenal. So I think when they get bad results now, like they have done the last three weeks or the last three League matches, it just becomes this sort of dangerous narrative of the pressure building and as Tim said earlier, are they going to crack? But if other people think that outside, that's fine, but I don't think that can come from within the club and how the fans manage that is is really important. And Arteta said this week, which was a message, I think, for the supporters as much as anyone, when he said they'd had this meeting on the Monday after the United game and said, in the next four months we're going to live and play with enjoyment, with a lot of courage and with a conviction that we're going to win it. That was what they discussed within, but I think it was also saying to the fans, come on, you know, we need you to try and stay calm through this period and help us get through it. So, yeah, be a great game. I think Elland Road, the atmosphere there is always fantastic and you know, they'll relish this opportunity to play against Arsenal and they'll think we're playing them at a good time.
- [29:53]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah. On Leeds, no team's lost fewer games than Farker's folks since the start of December. Just one defeat. That was in that crazy game in St. James's park where they were winning until stoppage time. In terms of how you beat Arsenal, then Tim was Man United the blueprint or are they going to be more sort of looking at the Liverpool and Forest performances and thinking that's how we can frustrate them?
- [30:17]
Tim Spears
Yeah, I felt like the United game was probably a little bit of a one off. You know, they sort of had had nothing to lose, weren't settling for a 22 away at the league leaders, you know, because that's just the sort of carefree attitude they've got under Carrick at the moment. Really. It's going to be very different for Leeds. I mean, you know, before the United game I think Arsenal had won all 24 matches where they scored first this season. So they do generally have this template of sort of taking the lead and stifling a match and don't really blow many teams away as we know. I do think Arsenal, I do think United exposed a bit of a soft center in Arsenal that we haven't really seen this season. It was pretty alarming to see. I mean it's great play by United but to see Fernandez and copy my new and Kunya sort of really pierce through the middle of that midfield, really sort of intricate play. I don't think Leeds have the capability to do that. With the greatest of respect, you know, they'd need to make use of their physical presence with this sort of team of giants. But I think Arsenal can probably counteract that. As we've said, it would be really surprising to see them sort of lose this type of match.
- [31:24]
Matt Davis Adams
Mention their good form, Stu. They're six points ahead of the relegation zone at the start of the weekend. They've only actually won two of their last nine. Is there a danger they might be a little bit too comfortable in their current position? Do you think their fight for survival is going to go down to the wire?
- [31:40]
Stu James
I think Leeds have really, you know, surprised me this season to be honest. I Look, they're on 26 points, right Matt, from 23 games. That would have been enough to keep them up last season. That's incredible really. There's 15 games to go and I think that's a big difference. This is a very different, curious Premier League this season. The bar to stay up is going to be a set a lot higher than it has been in in previous campaigns. I mean they've got Forest at Ellen Road next Friday, I think and in case anyone hasn't noticed, they go to West Ham on the final day of the season. So can imagine what that might look like. I think they've done really well because you know, earlier in the campaign I'd have thought Daniel Farker would have been one of the first managers to go, I've got to be honest. And I think a lot of Leeds fans thought that too. So they've been really, really competitive. You know, it's a measure of how far they've come that they go to Everton on Monday night. They're disappointed that they've come away with a draw and they probably should be because first half they played really, really well and they deserve to be a couple of goals up. Covert Lewin's unlucky with a a shot that comes back off the post. I think keeping him fit is obviously absolutely key. He's the fourth highest goal scorer in the Premier League. He's had a brilliant impact there, an impact that none of us could have really foreseen. He's obviously had fitness issues in the past. I think the matches now doubt this weekend or out with a hamstring problem. So yeah, Carver Lewin feels absolutely key to them and this is the sort of game that he'd love as well. You know, get balls in the box and attacking crosses, that kind of thing. The problem for Leeds is as good as they've been, they haven't got that distance as you said at the start there between West Ham and Forest. So yeah, a key period for them. But you know, full credit to them for how well they've done up to now.
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- [35:12]
Matt Davis Adams
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair. Right on Sunday at the world famous City grounds, Nottingham Forest against Crystal Palace. Two sides who were the subject of drama earlier this season after palace were demoted to the Conference League after Forest lodged an inquest that saw them bumped up to the Europa League. Clerical clarity is a cornerstone of any successful football club. Forest did the right thing, lol. Now back in January, February, David Ornstein reporting. Forest had made a 35 million pounds bid for palace striker Jean Philippe Mateta ahead of the meeting. AC Milan have entered the race as well, by the sounds of it. Tim, what do you make of all this?
- [35:55]
Tim Spears
It's just pretty sad what's happening to palace really in terms of, I mean it's a lot of palace fans I know, including some that work at the Athletic, are pretty sort of pessimistic at the best of times. But you know, to lose their best player last August and then now they're captain and then now their striker probably, and then their managers on the way out, it's pretty disastrous. I think it'd be a huge blow to lose Mateta really, but if he's going to be leaving in 18 months on a free, then, you know, they want to avoid the gay situation repeating itself and get as much money as they can for him. And for a 28 year old, 35 million probably good money. But then when I look at Strand Larsen being a potential 50 million replacement, I'm like, I don't understand transfer fees anymore, to be honest. And that's just a weird one. You know, if he's going to be the, if he is going to be the replacement and there's some doubt over whether palace are prepared to sort of pay that money. The guys scored zero non penalty goals this season in 21 appearances for Wolves, albeit, you know, an absolutely dreadful Wolves team with not much service. But yeah, in 1300 minutes, which is the equivalent to 15 full matches. He hasn't scored a non penalty goal. He's at the team at the moment. So yeah, it is a bit of a weird one because he's very different to Mateta in terms of he doesn't make use of his sort of height and frame and physicality as much as Mateta does. He's not as prolific in front of goal as potato as Mateta is this season. So I think for palace to be spending 35 million on Brennan Johnson and potentially 50 million on Jorgenstrand Larsen is a huge, huge risk and an awful lot of money to be spending on two players who haven't set the Premier League alight, you know, in sort of recent months. There's a lot about change at Crystal palace and yeah, Matt Hobbs, who's moved from Wolves, he's overseeing recruitment over there. There's an awful lot of pressure on him to, to get things right. It's pretty tumultuous over there at the moment. And then, you know, they're going to throw a relegation battle into that as well, Matt. I think so, yeah.
- [37:53]
Matt Davis Adams
There's a lot going on on Mateta Stew. Do Forest need him? I mean, they've signed Lorenzo Luca on loan. Igor Jesus scored in the Europa League on Thursday night. Taiwo Awani scored at Bren. Is this the area they should be looking to strengthen still further? Is it more about weakening a rival? I'm sort of struggling to get my head around it.
- [38:11]
Stu James
Yeah, I wondered the latter there because I question whether they need him. And I always think in January when we do it, when clubs are doing deals, then you know, you really. It must be essential to make that sign in because I think you just end up overpaying. Tim's just run through the fees there for, you know, Johnson and Strand last. They are bonkers transfer fees, you know, I just don't. It doesn't make any sense to me. Palace were passive in the summer window. They didn't do nowhere near enough then. And now they seem to have gone into panic mode, which I guess is born from, you know, the league position and the fact that they're on this terrible run of form and they're in a relegation battle. West Ham possibly, possibly are getting their act together a little bit. So you haven't got that kind of free season that I feel established. Premier League clubs have had in the past because the promoted teams from the championship have been so far off the pace. That isn't the case now. Sunderland have been great. Leeds have been really competitive. So palace are absolutely looking over their shoulder, but they can't spend this kind of money and get it wrong.
- [39:11]
Tim Spears
I think if palace was to somehow get a win here, which does feel unlikely, but if they were to be on 31 points with 14 games left, would be huge for Palace. And with West Ham facing a difficult match against Chelsea to have the potential to be sort of 11 points clear of the drop zone, I think they'd be breathing a massive sigh of relief if they were to win this. Conversely, if Forest win it and maybe West Ham get a surprise result against Chelsea, then it's down to five points. It is a proverbial sort of six pointer for Forest. A point with a likely West Ham defeat at Chelsea is not a bad result at all, to be honest. And I think that's probably what it's going to end up being. Let's be honest. It's going to be one. All right.
- [39:53]
James Mackey
Right.
- [39:53]
Matt Davis Adams
We mentioned West Ham going to Chelsea on Saturday. Tee time, Chelsea. You had that impressive win against Napoli on Wednesday to book their last 16 place in the Champions League. You've been enjoying Joao Pedro of late. My goodness me. The first of his two goals in Italy. Absolutely sensational.
- [40:11]
Stu James
Yeah. And I haven't enjoyed him all season. I've been a bit underwhelmed by him, to be honest. I thought he was a really good signing and I thought he'd kind of kick on and he hasn't done. I think he'd scored something like seven in his first 26 games. But since whether it's linked to a senior coming in, I don't know. But he's. He's really kicked on. He scored back to back Premier League games and then scored that brace. Sorry. Bagged that brace. That was what you said last week, Matt. Brace is always back. Didn't you so. Always bagged that brace against Napoli the other day and his general play was really good. Interesting that Rosinha said he's had him in his office four times already. Talking to him about his game and, and saying essentially that he wants him to play with a lot more intensity, that the quality is there. But I don't know, reading between the lines on that, I thought he was kind of saying he hadn't been working hard enough and hey, he was really good in. In Naples. The first goal. Wow.
- [40:58]
James Mackey
Yeah.
- [40:58]
Stu James
He pivots, takes up the outside of the right and then unleashes a tremendous left footed shot from, I don't know, 25 yards. But I actually enjoyed the second one even more because the second one for me Is is really classic center forward play. The balls played into his feet deep inside his half. He sets the ball and as soon as he sets it, he just spins in behind and then a lovely pass to run onto and finishes really clinically. He's in a good vein of form at the minute and looking like the player probably. Chelsea thought they had signed West Ham wise, Tim.
- [41:29]
Matt Davis Adams
They've spent a few quid. They're giving Nuno an assistant to argue with in the dugout. It seems to be sort of working.
- [41:36]
Tim Spears
Yeah, I was really impressed with them last week against Sunderland. It was. That was really set up for an away win. I thought. West Ham, one of the worst teams in the league, it concede in set pieces and they did have problems against Sunderland with set pieces. One of the worst atmospheres in the Premier League. It was an early Saturday kickoff, very quiet, but West Ham sort of, you know, really took the game to them. Mattis Fernandez scored an absolute scream and was their best player. But I do think with sort of Somerville and Bowen sort of coming to the fore and combining quite well either side of Castellanos, AKA Tati up front. There's a bit of a sort of a framework there if they can keep the 11 nice and settled and their attitude was really good. They were winning a lot of second balls. They had a lot of attacking intent. And you referenced him there, the new coach, Paco Jemef James.
- [42:27]
Matt Davis Adams
Nice.
- [42:27]
Tim Spears
Depending on that.
- [42:29]
Stu James
Glad a Bristolian didn't have to say that.
- [42:32]
Tim Spears
Apparently he's made a bit of a difference. He's sort of. He's the. The yin to Nuno's yang in that he's. He's quite attack minded. And they've had, I think three wins in all competitions since he came in. And yeah, a lot was made of him and Nuno arguing towards the end of last week's match on the touchline potentially about whether to bring Max Kilman on, which I completely understand. And you never see anyone take Nuno on. He deliberately surrounds himself with people who say yes, including players. I think being challenged might do him a little bit good. But yeah, it's whether they've left themselves too much to do, I guess. West Ham, you know, they're spending some money this month, but already five points adrift. Chelsea away this weekend. Yeah, there's the potential for them to be in real sort of dire straits after this weekend despite their recent upturn in form.
- [43:17]
Matt Davis Adams
So that one's half five on Saturday, eight o'.
- [43:19]
Stu James
Clock.
- [43:19]
Matt Davis Adams
It's Liverpool against Newcastle at Anfield Liverpool 60 winners against Carabag in midweek booking their place in the Champions League. Top eight. Premier League wise though, they are without a win in five. But Tim, they've got a side coming to visit them this weekend who haven't won there since April 1994.
- [43:40]
Tim Spears
Blimey, that's an incredible run. I didn't know that. 94, that is a long time ago. I bet. I bet Stu can name both elevens. Probably.
- [43:46]
Stu James
Yeah. That's probably about 35 then if we.
- [43:49]
Matt Davis Adams
Want to talk football heritage. Rob Lee and Andy Cole scored the goals in that game, which is just lovely. Liverpool with loads of problems in defense might only have Virgil van Dijk. Albeit Arneslot has confirmed this morning that Ibrahima Konate is back in training.
- [44:04]
Tim Spears
Yeah, Liverpool just sort of a really confusing team at the moment. You know, they've got this Premier League Champions League contradiction as well. But it feels like a really big match for Liverpool and Arnold slot. You know, they've got City next after this. If you look at the league table, they're in a pretty sort of precarious position in terms of being on 36 points, only three points ahead of 11th, you know, and the sort of chasing pack around them maybe showing a little bit more consistency than they are. Teams like Fulham and Brentford snapping at their heels. It's mad really, but I just, I don't really see them qualifying for the Champions League to be honest, based on what we've seen since August. Really. Even when they were winning sort of five matches at the start of the season, they didn't really convince anyone that it was going to last. And during their unbeaten run recently of many matches, you know, lots of unconvincing performances and draws against Leeds and Burnley and whatever. And now with their injury problems they are really vulnerable and a lot of inherent problems throughout the team. A lot of issues in defense with or without injuries. A lot of issues about style of play, A lot of issues about coming up against low blocks and set pieces and yeah, like spurs, just a lot of problems to to fix at the moment and not really, not really quick fixes, especially with the injuries piling up.
- [45:17]
Matt Davis Adams
Do you think they might name a similar team Stu, to that which started against Karabag, then they had Graben Birch at center back and midfielder Verts McAllister and Szlay. Gakpo Salah and Ekatike in attack. So. So might it be a case of just going with it, being free flowing, trying to outscore the opposition and maybe we will get that elusive 43 again?
- [45:38]
Stu James
Yeah, well he's Limited a lot in terms of his defenses defensive options isn't he? Because of all the injuries they've had in Fring Pong obviously going off early the other night too was a. Was a nightmare. When Bradley's out for the rest of the season it's weird because when you reel off that midfield in attack like you did then Matt if you'd have said that at the start of the season I'd have been thinking wow, how exciting. And now I just think I don't know what I'm going to get when I sit down to watch Liverpool play. I don't see that they're unrecognizable from last season. The only one who really impresses me and he hasn't been amazing but I think he's exciting to watch. He's akatike, you know. I feel when he's got the ball he might make something happen. Wirtz has been a real slow burner. I mean he scored in the week. I think that's his fifth goal of the season and I don't know sometimes I think we're looking for more positives than that actually are there with him. There was a little bit of nice link up play with Ekatike and that's been blossoming lately. But you want so much more for the money you've paid for him. Mac Allister's not looked himself. He got two goals in the week. Hopefully that kind of can get him back playing best because I think he's a terrific player when he's on form. And then Salah's just this curveball in it at the moment. You know it's gonna be really interesting to see how he is used going forward. And Gakpo. Gakpo's been out of form for a long time. You know he's been made the scapegoat a little bit for Liverpool's struggles this season. So it's just weird to watch Liverpool and think I don't know what I'm gonna get here.
- [47:02]
Matt Davis Adams
Newcastle sort of just as underwhelming Tim aren't they this season as Liverpool start the weekend in 9th they are going to have to go through the playoffs in their Champions League. So more work for them to do there and more games added to the schedule. Not particularly impressed away from home in the Premier League. They really need to get something from this game. Otherwise hopes of being back in the Champions League next season are going to get further away from them.
- [47:27]
Tim Spears
Yeah, real lack of consistency. I thought they were really poor against Villa last week. Real lack of intensity in their play, disappointing recruitment I think has played a big part in what we're seeing with Newcastle. You know, you look at, you look at what Elanga has done, which is basically very little, and what Jacob Ramsay has done, again, basically very little. That's what, 100 million quid on two players there, which for a club like Newcastle who've had issues with sort of, you know, financial restraints over the years, that's an awful lot of money for not much return. Alanga in particular has been very, very disappointing, nowhere near the levels he hit with Forest last season and with Bruno out recently, Joe Linton with injury issues. Less worried about the defense but going forward, a real sort of lack of vitality and creativity and attack and consistency. In terms of weekend, it's probably, probably a decent game for Liverpool to have because like with Liverpool, you don't really know which Newcastle is going to turn up. Which makes it for a fairly unpredictable match, I'd say.
- [48:23]
Matt Davis Adams
Should be a fun one. Part of a big schedule of games. Lots of interesting ones to look forward to this weekend. That is where we're going to leave things for today though. My thanks to Stu, to Tim, to producer Jay and to you for listening. Enjoy the weekend's action. We'll catch up with you soon. You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producer was Jay Beal and the presenter was Matt Davis Adams. The executive producer was Aidy Moorhead. The Athletic FC podcast is an Athletic Media company production and proudly sponsored by betfair.
- [49:05]
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