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- [00:01]
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- [01:06]
Host (Matt)
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Andy Jones
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- [01:57]
Andy Jones
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- [02:06]
Host (Matt)
The Athletic FC welcome to the preview from the Athletic fc. It's the show where we get you set for the weekend's Premier League action. This week we're looking ahead to the time we're Derby. It's Sunderland versus Newcastle. Technically I guess we should call it the Weir Tyne Derby given Sunderland the hosting but it doesn't trip off the tongue quite as nicely. Still good to have a river based rivalry back in the big time. Joining me today we have Mark Critchley. Hello Critch.
- [02:38]
Mark Critchley
Hello. How are we doing?
- [02:40]
Host (Matt)
Yeah, all good, thank you. Andy Jones is back with us as well. You okay Andy?
- [02:43]
Andy Jones
Yeah, not too bad thank you.
- [02:45]
Host (Matt)
Good, good. We are going to look ahead to some of the other big games throughout match week 16 too but first we're going to deal with the story that's been on everyone's lips this week Mo Salah's tantrum seems like a club throw.
- [02:58]
Mark Critchley
Me under the bus that's how I.
- [02:59]
Andy Jones
Felt it how I feel I think it's very clear that someone wants me to get all the blame the club promised me in a summer for a lot of promises and nothing so far I'm in the bench three games so I can say that they keep the promise and I said that many times.
- [03:20]
Host (Matt)
Before I had a good relationship with.
- [03:21]
Andy Jones
The manager and out of the sudden.
- [03:23]
James Mackey
We don't have any relationship I don't.
- [03:25]
Andy Jones
Know why it seems for me how I see it someone doesn't want to.
- [03:31]
Host (Matt)
Be in a club yeah this one still rumbling on after being benched three times in a row Salah said he's been thrown under the bus thus securing his place on series two of the celebrity traitors if not in the Liverpool team Arnaz Slot responded by leaving him out of the squad for Liverpool's won their win over in the Champions League on Tuesday Slot has been speaking this morning as we record on Friday in his pre match press conference he said I will have a conversation with Mo the outcome of that conversation determines how things will look on Saturday Dun dun dun. He didn't add he also said after the Sunderland game there were a lot of conversations between his representatives and ours between him and me that's interesting Andy isn't it? Because obviously the Sunderland game preceded Leeds last week when this rant came out Are we to assume therefore that the conversations between representatives and the clubs didn't go very well?
- [04:26]
Andy Jones
Well I think given what he then went and said after the Leeds game I think you can presume that that was the case yeah what was said is still not quite clear but it certainly was interpreted by Saladin in a certain way and led to him going nuclear if you like in the mixer which was just an incredible sort of interview that he gave and has obviously attracted opinions from everywhere different levels of outrage and understanding but yeah it's certainly shook things off not that Liverpool needed things shaken up much more than they already did given the last couple of months and how that's been a rocky.
- [05:05]
Mark Critchley
Road in itself sure has he also.
- [05:07]
Host (Matt)
He being Slot Critch said I have no reasons to not want Salah to stay do you think he's telling the truth there? Because Salah's output's been poor and it was pretty clear that it was Slot who He was referencing last week when he said that people were sort of working against him. Is Slot trying to just dampen things down a bit and toe the party line?
- [05:28]
Mark Critchley
Well I think there has to be an element of that there because he has to say things like that in order to bring about the resolution that he needs which is for Mohamed Salah to be, I don't know, mollified, is that the word? Or just at least reintegrated essentially and for everything to just calm down. I'm sure that would be a much easier solution for all parties if that was the resolution that comes from whatever conversation they have today or conversations over the next days. But you know you say he's got no reason why he wanted to leave. I believe him when he says but if Salah is absolutely unapologetic, if he digs his feet in and says that you know he said what he said and he still feels like he's been unfairly treated by the manager and by the club, well then I really don't know what option that would leave slot and Liverpool. But to say that well we're going to have to review things when, when the January window opens because he's immensely well paid, he is extremely high profile, he is the best player that the club has had for the last seven or eight years and the past week has probably seen the beginning of the end of Mo Salah at Liverpool. I think we may even say you're in the middle of the end of Mo Salah at Liverpool because we're only a few months on from them spending 400 odd million in the transfer market. Much of it at the of the pitch on younger players. Maybe this has been in the post for some while but I don't think any of us saw it being quite as explosive as it has been in the last few weeks. And like I say I feel like that whatever happens, whatever the short term resolution is we are starting to see perhaps a parting of the ways in.
- [07:12]
Host (Matt)
The longer term future without him starting in all competitions. Liverpool one two, drawn two. But they've also kept two clean sheets which is as many as they'd done in Salah's previous 14 appearances. He hadn't scored in any of his last five games so he's not exactly coming at this from a position of strength. Busy Andy. It feels like Liverpool are doing all right without him.
- [07:32]
Andy Jones
Yeah, no Salah, no problem mate. That's, that's. It's not quite been like that but yeah it's, it's certainly not the best. The best look for from his point of view that Liverpool have sort of looked just generally just structurally better. They've turned games a little bit more into low events. The focus has been a lot more on. On keeping defensively solid first and then hoping that the, the talent in attack that they do have on the pitch can see them through. And you know, West Ham was, was the prime example of that where you know, Isaac pulls out a superb finish in the second half and they win that game. And I think what the theme has been with the exception of the 20 minutes at the end of the game against Leeds. Where can I say does something that you can't, you know, as a manager you can't legislate for. You can't, you can't predict, you know, him being so stupid or that descends into chaos. But Inter Milan was another example of sort of the defensive structure making Liverpool a whole lot more resolute committed because the last three games that Salah was in the side Liverpool conceded 10 goals and two of those games were at home which is just not good enough. And I think this is the thing that I think Salah I think understandably probably feels like well why is it only me that's you know, being dropped? Because you can look at a number of players in the team and their performances are also below par and have been below par for a number of weeks. Ibrahima Konate is the obvious one but there's others as well. The difference with Konate is that the depth in that position is non existent basically because they've had no right back. Joe Gomez has been there but you know, he always feels like he's you know, around the corner from an injury unfortunately. So playing him comes at its risks. And if you drop Kanate, Joe Gomez plays, Joe Gomez just gets injured. Then you've got to go back to Kanate and what have you done to his confidence by dropping him. And so there's, there's all things at play but they haven't necessarily picked up because the draw home to Sunderland draw the way to Leeds isn't, isn't exactly like you've turned the corner in terms of you know, Liverpool are back but I think it's beginning to get more out of other players in the team with the way that they're now set up.
- [09:38]
Host (Matt)
Lastly on Salah Critch, Obviously Liverpool legend, etc. Ridiculous output last season. 47 goal contributions in the Premier League. The highest ever in a 38 game season. But neither you nor I are Liverpool fans. But I don't know about you but I just think this is quite a sad way for his time at Liverpool to come to an end, if that is what's going to happen. It also feels quite needless as well. Like surely this could have been conducted in private without him kind of besmirching his reputation to some of the fan base at least.
- [10:08]
Mark Critchley
Yeah, to a degree. I think that it is disappointing that it's come to this. I think for Liverpool fans a lot.
- [10:17]
James Mackey
Who.
- [10:19]
Mark Critchley
I guess it's still quite divided, isn't it? That's the one thing, if you take a sort of litmus test of opinion, people seem to be on one side or another with it. Some people can sympathize with Salah's complaints, others don't. I don't know if that's more of a split between perhaps match going fans and online fans. It does seem to be, it seems quite divisive and perhaps slightly more divisive than I expected. I think a lot of the time you expect when players speak like this, there's almost people circle the wagons a little bit and, and want to defend the club and protect the club. And I think you have seen that to an extent and you've certainly seen that in some of the reaction that there's been across the media. But I do at the same time sense that some Liverpool fans can feel that Salah's got a point and empathize with him when he's talking about everything that he's achieved for the club and why that perhaps doesn't make him a special case but does give him a right to speak out. Now again, like I say, I'm slightly surprised by that because I do expect most of the time, I think at most clubs and Liverpool in particular, fans will defend the club first. I think he's been accommodated in the team for a while. He doesn't have to defend quite as much as he used to. He said that himself before and that is a privilege that a lot of great players are afforded. Jamie Carragher was making this point earlier this week on Monday Night Football. That trade off worked last season, right? He was. He put in one of the best individual seasons of any Premier League player that we've seen. And Liverpool went on to win the league and it worked. When it doesn't work, then it becomes a problem and no player really can do that indefinitely. No matter whether you're Mo Salah, whether you're Lionel Messi, whether you're Cristiano Ronaldo, once that stops and you can't do that, then it becomes a problem. And I think that's what's happened so quickly and quicker than anybody would have expected over the last six or seven or eight months. And then as I said before, it's blown up publicly as well, far more explosively and far more quickly than anyone who expected as well. It is sad. Maybe it damages his legacy a little bit. I do think once the dust settles and whether Mo Salah is still a Liverpool player at that point or not, people will start to forget about this and remember all those goals and all those trophies that he won and all the success that he had and helped Liverpool achieve.
- [12:32]
Andy Jones
I think where he lost a number of supporters is the bit where he said he's earned his right to be in the team and doesn't necessarily have to prove that he should be in the team and that. I think that that was the quote that a lot of people picked out because there was a lot of things that you could, people could understand. Maybe he has been thrown under the bus. Maybe, you know, people have said we don't, we don't want you here anymore. But when it was, no, that's not right that you have just earned that. You don't need to prove it anymore because football is always about prove. Every single day you've got to prove that you're on the team, that you're the best option. And I think he lost a number of fans when he said that and he may, he may not have. That might not have been what he exactly meant. But yeah, that was the one that really didn't go down well with a lot of supporters. I don't think it is what he.
- [13:16]
Mark Critchley
Said though, isn't it? I know maybe you didn't mean it, but it's what he said and that's the only interpretation you can take of that. And I agree with, personally speaking, I think to come out and say that it's something that if I was a Liverpool fan it would get my back up. I can understand why it has got Liverpool fans backed up. I just wonder if we're all still in the white heat of this moment and obviously once things settle down, people will take a little bit more of a reflective stance on everything and understand why perhaps he's spoken at this moment. But no, it's not, it's not a good look and it's definitely shaking things up this week. Right.
- [13:49]
Host (Matt)
All right, well we'll wait and see if he features at all against Brighton, that is Saturday, 3pm, both sides on 22 points. Brighton did win the last meeting between the sides. They've never beaten Liverpool in consecutive league games. I probably think that they'll never have a better chance to do so. Meanwhile Sunday at 2 o' clock the time Weir Derby returns to the Premier league for the first time since 2016 Sunderland have gone nine league games unbeaten against Newcastle. They've won six of those. The Magpies last league victory came in August 2011 although they did win 30 at the Stadium of Light in the FA cup last season. So two o' clock kickoff. I guess that's probably for the potential of booze fueled rowdiness as to why it's not in the 4:30 slot. It's beautifully poised this critch is it Sunderland ninth on 23 points. Newcastle just a point back from them. Obviously we know Sunderland have had a sensational start to the season. This would be quite the way to cap it.
- [14:48]
Mark Critchley
Absolutely. I'm not going to pretend that I know my highways from my highways or however they differentiate it over there. As somebody who's not from that far corner I would say it's good to have it back. It feels good that we've got this fixture back in the Premier League. I think the Premier League's stronger for having proper derbies like the Tynan Wade Derby. I think if people were asked to pick the ideal 20 team Premier League then these two are absolutely part of it and this fixture's part of it as well. I like the fact that it's at the stadium alight first because I think you know when Sutherland got promoted through the playoffs at the end of last season the expectations weren't high for them. Right. As they are for most teams who come up through the playoffs. So you would have liked to see this fixture at their place first just to give them a chance. But to be honest I think what I like even more than that is that it feels like a genuine 5050 given the way that, that Sunderland have started and you know they're so close in the league right there you would have expected them to be underdogs. They're not for this and it just, it just sets it up really nicely for, for a game that I think we've all been waiting to see for this. It's in December as well. It feels like we've had to wait a while for it but here it is and it's a nice little set piece to take us into the Christmas period.
- [15:55]
Host (Matt)
Yeah, too close to call really Andy, isn't it? I mean is anybody going to be moved to tears by scoring a goal like Jermaine Defoe was in in 2015 it's not going to be as shellacking one way or the other in all likelihood, is it?
- [16:08]
Andy Jones
No, I don't. I don't think so. I think it's going to be very different from. From that FA cup game that you mentioned which was men against boys to the record against Newcastle in the league is. Is pretty incredible. I knew it was good like in terms of. I can remember you know thinking back to some of their like sort of surprising wins. But yeah I think this, it's. It's. It's perfectly set up this because Sunderland obviously have shown that they are very much a home in the Premier League this season and Newcastle aren't exactly in the you know, in the greatest you know shape in the world in terms of. In terms of themselves that they're on the. It looks like they're on the right trajectory in terms of moving in the right direction now but their away form has been. Has been patchy to say the least and they've not performed. So this is set it up perfectly because Sunderland have been excellent at home. It's going to be a really, really big test for Newcastle because I think it's just going to be full of emotion, full of passion and that's. That's what you want derbys to be about. You want them to be about when he was putting that first tackle in who's. He's going to come off on the receiving end of it and things like that and then yeah, I don't think there'll be any tears on the pitch but I think there'll be a few in the. In the stands of especially if Sunderland can pull off a victory. I think there might be a few fans getting fairly emotional because they've waited a long time for. For this game to come back and in the Premier League and. And they'll also want to put right that. That FA cup defeats because that was you know, as I say it was. It wasn't. Wasn't fun to watch him from a sun's perspective. I can imagine.
- [17:32]
Host (Matt)
Yeah. Sunderland beaten three nil at City last week, Rich. I mean that can happen to anybody, can't it? But they are unbeaten at the stadium of like so far this season and this would be a real statement result not just for them but for Regist Labris as well.
- [17:47]
Mark Critchley
Right.
- [17:47]
Host (Matt)
He's very much a take each game as it comes kind of guy and I guess that level headedness is useful in a fixture like this. But he'll be fully aware of how further he can enhance his Reputation with Sunderland supporters with a win here.
- [18:00]
Mark Critchley
Yeah, yeah, I just. Sorry, on a tangent, I just remember that when that Newcastle fan punched a horse. That was after a Sunderland game. So there's your explanation for the 2 o' clock kickoff. No, sorry, your question. Yeah, no, I thought Sunderland put a lot into that game at Anfield and so it was sort of natural that there was a drop off so quickly going to the Etihad so soon after. I do wonder if there's a slight correction coming with them. Just anybody who looks at the underlying numbers and the data and the XG and things will tell you that it's maybe been in the post for a while as well as they've done. I think they've absolutely still even by those numbers performed better than anybody would have expected. But you look at the record now, it's one winning six. I think there's three draws in there as well. And after this weekend they're losing a lot of players to afcon, aren't they? I think it's the most in the Premier League. So they could be in a. For a bit of a bumpy ride soon. But you would rather keep those play for this weekend as it seems they will do and for this fixture in particular and then deal with that when it comes. And you know you have to have. I know they're losing a lot of plays to that tournament but you have to make those kinds of decisions when you have to totally rebuild the squad as they have done. And they've done that better than I think anybody expected. And you know, that's not just down to Regis Labris. I think he's. He's. He's responsible for the coaching element and he's, you know, executed a game plan that has taken a lot of teams by surprise. So while, you know, I think maybe a little bit over their skis in terms of the performances and the results at the start of the season, they're already in a place where the relegation is not. Should not be any of the concerns and it's just how high they can finish now.
- [19:40]
Host (Matt)
Newcastle wise then. Andy, you mentioned their away record in the Premier League's not been great. They did get a point a way to buy a Leverkusen in the Champions League. But maybe a tinge of regret there given that they conceded the equalizer so late on and a consistent theme on the show this season. There are disadvantage here. Right. Purely on the basis that they played in midweek and Sunderland haven't.
- [20:02]
Andy Jones
Yeah. And it does have its impact and I think Newcastle are Having another season of, of experience in that I think when they were in the Champions League the first time, I think that was also the case. And obviously that season the injuries really, really piled up as well. But. And yet some of the away performances. I've watched some of them, some of their games this season and yeah it's just been far, far away from what you would expect from a Newcastle side and the way they usually go about their business. But the victory Goodison park was I think was a. Was an important one for them. Obviously it helps getting a goal as soon as the game starts which sort of put them on the right track. But then the performance afterwards was really, really good and as I said before it feels like the beginning to sort of get on the. The right track again. Obviously the away form needs to improve and there's probably not many more difficult games than when you go in a way to face your rival. I mean as a Liverpool fan, no matter what form Everton they're in Goodison park was and obviously they're not there now but was always felt like one of your hardest games of the season. Regardless of how bad Everton could be as they have been in recent seasons. Obviously Sunderland are in much better shape than Everton I've been in previous seasons. But it'll feel like that for Newcastle I think and they'll be asked a lot of questions. It'll be about showing character but I think they are getting performances out of players. I think obviously Bruno's Guimaris has been excellent and Harvey Barnes has sort of stood up and you know, in recent weeks I think Lewis hall coming back into the side has been really important for them as well. So yeah, it's going to be. I'd say it's going to be interesting to see how it goes but yeah it's. If. If you need a test of what you, what you like on the road then go into going to your rivals in what is going to be a hostile, noisy atmosphere. That's really going to show you how far you've come and if you are getting away from those disappointing away performances that sort of plagued them during the first part of the season.
- [21:49]
Host (Matt)
All right, we'll take a little break here. When we come back we'll talk about some of the individuals involved.
- [22:01]
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- [25:55]
Host (Matt)
Sponsored by BET Van Granit Xhaka and Bruno Guimar Ice Battle I don't watch Marvel movies, but that sounds like a scene from One to Me. Critch 2 Old school style midfielders. Who's going to get booked first and and what are the chances that they both get sent a challenge involving one another?
- [26:13]
Mark Critchley
Yeah, I'm trying to imagine what a Granit Xhaka red card looks like and what a Bruno Guimmer ish red card looks like. Because in my mind's eye, Xhaka, it's usually him like throttling somebody or maybe like accidentally roundhouse kicking somebody to the chest and slightly inadvertent but also extremely violent at the same time. And then Bruno like last time I was on this we were doing it before Chelsea versus Arsenal and I think we were having a similar discussion about Caicedo and Rice, weren't we? And then Caicedo proceeded to get sent off and I think there was some stats during the rounds after that game where Caicedo apparently he has like the most or it was the second most fouls per tackle of any player in the league. And the first most was Bruno Gimresh. So like a missed time challenge. I suppose so yeah. I can certainly see cards coming out of pockets at some point or another on Sunday afternoon. If there's going to be one that gets sent off I think it's probably. I think it's probably Xhaka because I just think it'd be more entertaining because like I say he'd probably just end up doing something stupid by accident and getting off. But yeah like both have been superb this season.
- [27:26]
Host (Matt)
Right.
- [27:26]
Mark Critchley
Aside from the disciplinary stuff both have been really brilliant in that midfield area just controlling the tempo of games. And Bruno as well. I know scoring from corners apparently seems like he can do anything at the moment. So I think that's going to be a key battle and one that we're all definitely looking forward to in more ways than one.
- [27:44]
Host (Matt)
Maybe you can be too fired up right Andy for a derby but I guess in this particular case it might help to that end that you've got arguably the two most level headed managers in the league to maybe try and curb the enthusiasm of the players a little bit.
- [28:00]
Andy Jones
Yeah but then you've also got a lot of people in the stands making you go the other way because as I said that's going to be some. Some atmosphere and I think it's going to pump a lot of people up and the adrenaline is going to be very, very high. I think on the Red Car front I think Joe Linton's going to be. Is a huge doubt, isn't he? But he would have been right up there I think for. For doing something a bit mad because he likes to. He likes to put a challenge in, doesn't he? Although he's like the master of not getting booked until like the 80th minute despite it being like his 49th foul. But yeah, no, yeah you can't be too fired up on it is about. I mean cool heads is. Is what you want, isn't it? But it. It's not easy. It's easy said than done I think at times and I think there'll be enough. Obviously there'll be a number of players playing in that. That fix you for the first time more on the Sunderland end because you know Newcastle would have a number of their players would have experienced it a little bit in that FA cup but this is going to be a different beast if you like. So yeah it's got the potential to be too fired off and people to be too fired up. But I mean as a neutral that usually makes it a better game, doesn't it so I'm not going to. I'm not going to tell them to to shelve that but I'm sure the managers we will be doing so because you know their best chance of winning is keeping 11 men on the pitch and going from there. But yeah it feels like there's going to be a few meaty ones.
- [29:15]
Host (Matt)
Jordan Pickford, somebody who struggled to keep his emotions in check in this fixture in the past. Both keepers 2025 could play a significant role here I think. I think most agree Robin Reefs has been one of the signings of the season. Newcastle also got a new goal. He took Aaron Ramsdale a while to renunciate the Pope. Do you think that he is the the long term answer between the sticks for the Magpies?
- [29:38]
Mark Critchley
I'm not sure about that. In my personal opinion I think that Pope but I think both have established premier Premier League careers before this so it's not an easy being a number two in either for either one of them I would say and it makes things a little bit awkward. I never think that dynamic really works when you've got almost two keepers who could both justifiably be number one. There needs to be a clear demarcation there because I just think means that there's more certainty not only for those goalkeepers but for the defenders playing in front of them. If I was going to pick one it would probably be Pope to be honest. I know that there's question marks sometimes over his ability with his feet. It's held him back with his England career a little bit but he feels a bit more solid and dependable and I know that Newcastle fans were getting on his back a little bit recently and maybe there's some questions that Ramsdale should come in but I don't think RA Snow's really staked his claim too strongly just yet. So it's a little bit of a question mark there. Personally I picked Pope. If I had to pick between either of those two or Robin Roos then it's Robin Roos every time. I think he's been absolutely sensational. That pass that he played for Isidore right at the end of the game at Anfield, you know just insane. And I thought he was you know most of the time that I'd watched him this season been his shot stopping that most impressed me. But he can play with his feet as well. Young keeper, relatively good steel. I think he's. He's a symbol of just how. How really spot on. Sunderland's business was during the summer they had to do a lot of business. Very difficult to get right. It's a promoted club but they. They got more right than they got wrong and he's probably the biggest tick that they've got alongside.
- [31:15]
Host (Matt)
Yeah. The benchmark for future promoted clubs in their transfer business, I think. Come on then, Andy. What's going to happen in this game? Give me a prediction, please.
- [31:23]
Andy Jones
I think it's going to be mad. I'm going to go two, two, I think. I'm not quite sure they'll separate from each other but I think there's going to be goals and a lot of action. Maybe. I'm just hoping that's what I'm going to be watching on the Sunday.
- [31:36]
Host (Matt)
I like that, rich. 2 2. Maybe with a goalkeeping gaffe, maybe with a red card or two as well. Would you concur?
- [31:43]
Mark Critchley
I really like the two two shout, actually. I haven't given it much thought but I feel it. I can feel that in my bones and I feel like it's going to be 10, nine. Newcastle. I would say in terms of players left on the pitch at the end.
- [31:59]
Sponsor/Producer Voice
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [32:04]
Host (Matt)
Right. This is the part of the show where with the help of our partners Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. James Mackey joins us. So we're going to talk about a derby in a minute, James. But of course it was the Betfair office derby last week. Finished 33 between Leeds and Liverpool. Did that mean that peace broke out in the office?
- [32:24]
James Mackey
Well, it was a frosty Monday and Tuesday, Matt, between me and Alex Boyes. But look, great game of football. Great for the. Great for the neutral. Liverpool probably should have gone and won the game. It's been the story this season. But look we at least we won in the week and that's something to be positive about. First thing I did off air jump on and say look, we won again. So I've got a smile on my face today, Matt.
- [32:45]
Host (Matt)
All right, to Sunday then. A bit like last week at Elham Road. I think this is going to be blood and thunder and thud and blunder. Which way do you see it going? Sunderland. Newcastle Draw.
- [32:57]
James Mackey
It's just absolutely brilliant to have the time. We're derby back in the Premier League, isn't it? And I just think it's set to be a cracker at the stadium alight. The Betfair sportsbook has the hom side as the 115 outsiders to win the game. But the stats say something Very different about the prize with Sunderland being unbeaten in their last nine league games against Newcastle. Sunderland's current run of nine without defeat is their longest ever unbeaten league run against Newcastle, winning six and draw in three. Newcastle are the even money favorites to take the bragging rights on Sunday afternoon but have a poor recent record against their rivals having lost their last three away league games against Sunland more than they had in their previous 21 visits combined. Which is just astounding. The draw is priced at 2 to 1 and look, I think it's going to be a really, really tight affair. I think it's going to be a lot of. A lot of passion. No one will want to lose the game. And the last time these two met in the Premier League it finished 11 at St James's park back in 2016. So it looks really tight. But Newcastle are the favourites Matt going into the game.
- [33:54]
Host (Matt)
All right. Speaking of passion, I think we'll probably get some fairly robust challenges. Usually a fixture that brings goals as well. A couple of individuals who might feature in both those aspects of the game. Featuring your bet builder too.
- [34:07]
Andy Jones
Yeah.
- [34:08]
James Mackey
I've gone for a bet builder double this week and it's focusing on one Sunland player and one Newcastle player. I could have gone through a plethora of players looking to be carded. I think that a matchup to watch out for is Jaka against Joe Lint. I think that they both could get carded the weekend. But just looking from a stats perspective, I'll start with the Sunland player. And I'll start with Trey Hume to be carded anytime. He's made three plus tackles in three of his last four Premier League appearances. Making five last time out against Manchester City. He's also been card in four of his last seven games. He's five to two to be carded on Sunday and I thought that was actually quite a value prize for the stats on offer. So he'll start the bet builder at 5:2. And rounding it out with the Newcastle plays Anthony Gordon to score any time for Newcastle. The Englishman has scored in all of his last three games. In all competitions they have all been from the penalty spot. But look, you're scoring. If you're scoring goals, no one can knock you. We're getting 12 to five for him to make it four goals in four games. And I thought that was a generous price as well. So overall those two selections. Sorry. Come together for around a 10 to 1 bet builder on Sunday. And the beauty of the two legs mentioned is that they have safe sub attached to them. Meaning if those legs haven't won and those players come off, the player that replaces them carries on that leg of the bet. It's a great tool for punters to take advantage of this season on enabled markets map.
- [35:22]
Host (Matt)
James, congratulations. I really like the bet builder and I've never heard Anthony Gordon referred to as the Englishman before. So enjoyed that very much. Thank you as ever. We'll catch up with you again soon.
- [35:35]
Sponsor/Producer Voice
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [35:39]
Host (Matt)
Right, our Chelsea favorite, chase Everton in the second Saturday 3pm kickoff. Only two of them this week. The Blues continue to baffle. After earning high praise in the win over Barcelona and a draw against Arsenal, they now come into this one off the back of defeats to Atalanta and Leeds with a goalless draw at Bournemouth in the middle. Everton, meanwhile, have only lost one of their last six and they're only a point behind Chelsea. They've got the X factor here as well too. Keane and Dewsbury hall in fantastic form. Initially, it said in the script shows that failing at Chelsea isn't an indicator of a bad player. I don't think he did fail, Critch. I think he won two trophies and then he left for a better club than the one that he joined Chelsea from. So he went Leicester, Chelsea, Everton. So actually if you're a glass half full kind of person, you could say that it's all worked out pretty well for Dewsbury hall, hasn't it?
- [36:31]
Andy Jones
Yeah.
- [36:31]
Mark Critchley
Are you saying Everton are a better club than Chelsea? So I don't think no than Leicester.
- [36:35]
Host (Matt)
So he goes Leicester, massive upgrade to Chelsea, stays there for us year, gets a couple of medals, then goes to a better club than the one he started at.
- [36:44]
Mark Critchley
Got you. No, I totally agree. I don't think it's to his detriment that he left Chelsea. I think probably by the year 2035, every professional footballer working in this country would have been signed or sold by Chelsea at some point. So you can't really hold that against anybody. No. Yeah, he didn't. He didn't fail there. Signed because of the link with Maresca. Was a player that Maresca really liked and trusted. Was he going to displace Cole Palmer? Was he going to displace Enzo Fernandez in the team? No, he wasn't. But you're right, he was part of the Conference League team, scoring past the likes of Ghent and Jugardens and I don't know, Noah and all these others that they played and the club broke up as well and you know, now he's gone away and he's part of an Everton team that is really, really fun to watch, you know, more fun than a lot of people expected. I know, I know this has been sort of the narrative around them all season, but the way that I was at Old Trafford a few weeks ago when they, when they came there and they obviously went down to 10 men in extraordinary circumstances, but even at that point they go up the other end and it's Jewsbury hall who scores. And I think since he's brilliant goal, you know, just the touch and the composure and the strike itself score from that range. And I think since then it just looks like he's coming to his own a little bit. I think he's been playing well all season, but that's really. He's really kicked on since then. So, yeah, I think it's the sort of move that, you know, you can't, you can't begrudge any player making in terms of the one to Chelsea to have that opportunity then to come away with two trophies and then to be a starter starting regularly for a team like Everton. Yeah, absolutely. He's having a great season.
- [38:13]
Host (Matt)
Probably a conversation for another time as to whether his surname sounds the most like a Premier League training ground. I won't ask you that, Andy. I will ask you about Illiman Njai, another player doing great things for Everton this season. We spoke about Sunderland losing a lot of players to afcon. This might be one of the most significant departures for a month or so of any Premier League team.
- [38:35]
Mark Critchley
Right.
- [38:35]
Host (Matt)
Because he's pretty integral to how they've been this season.
- [38:37]
Andy Jones
Yeah, he's a massive player for them. So it gives them, hey, man, Grealish. Sort of give them that X factor, don't they? So, yeah, it's going to be a big blow. It's. It's going to be interesting to see how they do replace him. You just have to look at Tyler Diblin, really, whose Everton career has not really got going really. Certainly this, you know, he struggled for game time this season. I think he's been. He's not been used much recently off the bench, but when you play a lot of money for a player like that, I guess this is sort of the period you're hoping, you know, would be. Would be an opportunity for him to shine. There's Dwight McNeil as well, who's, you know, an experienced Premier League player at this point and probably, you know what, you're going to get a little bit more from him. But what I think Everton have shown this Season. It doesn't just have to be him. He's obviously integral to their performances and, and how successful they've managed to be this season. But they have it, you know they have got more players in the team who can produce and jews we hold one of them. Grealish as I mentioned. And Barry continues to get to get better than you think maybe with that first goal under his belt that he might be able to kick on. So yeah, it's a lot of positives for ever and this is, you know and Jai Garwin is a bit of a negative but I'm sure he'll, he'll want to finish on a high before he goes. Just might be a little bit tricky at Stamford Bridge. I think David Moises records pretty terrible there, isn't it? So but maybe this is the time for him to turn that around because you know, I think I have no surprise to a few people this season. I think you know that the new stadium coming in and things like that, there's been a feel good factor about them with the business they did in the summer as well and, and that's continued into the season, has continued. So even then when, when they have a scrap on the pitch between their own players that they can still win that game and then have a round two insane in the following day. So yeah, yeah, as a Liverpool fan I'm not, not quite enjoying as much of other people but yeah, no fair play to him and Jai's been excellent and they're going to certainly going to miss him.
- [40:27]
Host (Matt)
Haven't won a league game at Stamford Bridge since 1994. Paul Rideout scored that day. They might fancy their chances against modern day Chelsea though. Critch beaten in Italy against Atalanta in midweek, Enzo Maresca has now made 119 changes to the starting 11 in 23 matches in all comps this season. That's an average of more than five a game. It's the most made by any Premier League manager or head coach. He's not quite got the art of rotation right then. Is this just a necessary evil given that Chelsea played all through the summer?
- [41:01]
Mark Critchley
Yeah, I'm getting Tinkerman throwbacks, Claudio Ranieri like 2004. Take me back. Yeah, no, I think, I think the squad sort of demands it. You're right. Not only because of the amount of competitions they played last season, through the summer into this season and last season as well. There was almost a requirement to rotate heavily between Premier League and Conference League just because the priorities were so there was this gap between the priorities in both competitions. So it demanded it then. I think the squad demands it now because we know Chelsea's approach to squad building. It means that there's players who have relatively similar expectations of playing time, multiple in each position. And so you need to keep all of those happy and that's a challenge within itself. Then you also have certain players like Rhys James, Wesley Fafana, players who put injury records that mean that they have to be managed a little bit more than others. So I think it's par for the course of managing this Chelsea squad and managing Chelsea in this period of time. At the same time. Could he be a bit smarter with it? Maybe. I think Maresca is always still just a little bit of an enigma. For me. I think it was getting a lot of very justified praise for how he set up and how they saw out the game against 10 man Arsenal the other week and taking that point and people talking about possible title challenge. I think, I think we've seen recently why that's just a little bit premature just yet. There is something that maybe is just a little bit ineffable that they just. They're just missing and maybe it is just this. They don't seem to find that consistent rhythm. Partly due to the rotation. Yes. But then I think as I said before, there's reasons why you can see why they need to retain. It's just the way that the squad is built at the minute. So I don't necessarily blame Maresca for it either.
- [42:49]
Host (Matt)
Yeah, only just past 50 games as a Premier League manager as well, so still very much learning and evolving. It's so tight, Andy, in the race for Europe in any formal fashion, just four points between 4th place and 12th going into this weekend. And that puts more pressure on these type of games. Right. If you're playing against a team around you in the table, it can be massive to either take or lose points against them.
- [43:13]
Andy Jones
Yeah, I mean, ultimately though, you aren't as far away, but it feels like like at this point of the season the league has sort of figured itself out a little bit and you can sort of see roughly where everyone is probably going to finish and they're around those positions. Whereas this season is really, really unpredictable because you look at like Bournemouth, who were like up in the top four very, very recently. I'm not quite sure where they are now, but I think that they were sort of around 13th, 12th, something like that.
- [43:37]
Host (Matt)
They're 13th, but they're six points off the Champions League places, so.
- [43:40]
Andy Jones
Exactly. So it's like, like everyone was praising it and then suddenly you look at them in like 13th and say, oh wait, how's that happen? But it's only because just a couple of results can, can impact that. It's, it's like Liverpool for example, who've, you know, had that such a terrible run but are only sort of, you feel like they should be miles back from. And they are miles back from where they want to be, which is obviously challenging as a title. But you know that like one win will take them up to like fifth or something like that. And it, it is, it is pretty, pretty crazy how close it is at this point of the season. But I think it just, it again goes to the strength of the Premier League but also just the ability for everyone to figure out a way to get results off teams. Because even like we've seen it with Arsenal in terms of it looked like they were going to run away with the league and suddenly they've been pegged back a little bit and you're beginning to see a title race emerge if you like. Whereas it didn't feel like that would be the case a couple of weeks ago when Arsenal just sort of looked like they were just going to cruise to it. And yeah, it's a great opportunity for a number of teams who were in and around in between that four to sort of 12th, 13th spot because it is so close and one win can make it look very, very different, which is a good thing for the Premier League because you want teams to have that opportunity and be able to challenge for European places and it just makes it better and it makes more games watchable because there's something on the line in every single one of.
- [45:06]
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Andy Jones
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Andy Jones
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Andy Jones
Shop Whole Foods Market with so many ways to save on festive spreads all.
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Host (Matt)
I had joint pain and I couldn't.
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Andy Jones
Move like I used to. I needed relief. I got Kosentyx. It helped me move better.
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- [48:15]
Andy Jones
Ask your dermatologist about Cosentyx.
- [48:25]
Sponsor/Producer Voice
This is the Athletic FC podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [48:30]
Host (Matt)
In terms of the top two this weekend, Arsenal host Wolves on Saturday night looking to get back to winning ways in the league after defeat at the last weekend. Critch was more likely. Arsenal win the treble or Wolves avoid defeat in this game.
- [48:46]
Mark Critchley
I think guys, I think I heard something this week that Wolves were at a 1% chance of I Don't know what that would translate as in like fractional odds, but a 1% chance of winning this game. So do you think Arsenal have more than 1% chance of winning the treble? I think they probably do. So I'd have to take Arsenal. I'm taking it. Arsenal for the treble over Wolves winning or even avoiding defeat in this game.
- [49:10]
Host (Matt)
Actually be fun for Nonni Madwaque to see the Wolves fans again, I'm sure, after he accidentally won social media last season. As for City, they go to Crystal palace on Sunday, having won at the Bernabeu in midweek. This is the first meeting of the teams since the FA Cup Final Revenge on On City's mind. Andy, that's not really a Pep kind of thing, is it? He's got a good record at Selhurst park too.
- [49:37]
Andy Jones
Yeah, I mean, it might be at the back of the minds that they want to. Want to get one over on palace, but I think their focus will very much be on continue to put the pressure on Arsenal. And it feels like. And the Bernabeu victory was another example of that that City had just sort of found in the groove a little bit. It's not been. Not been completely smooth sailing, but they've. They feel like a number of players are in form. It feels like they've sort of got a shape and a structure that. That feels like the ability to contend for the title. And when City is sort of in that position, it can be a little bit ominous. So I think they. Y. I don't think the FA cup will be too much on their mind. I think it'll be more on getting another win on the board and continuing to sort of put the pressure and crank the pressure up on.
- [50:18]
Mark Critchley
On.
- [50:18]
Andy Jones
On Arsenal.
- [50:19]
Host (Matt)
Do you get your membership pack through this week, Chris, for the Ryan Cherky fan club? I think we're all in it, aren't we? Apart from Pep Guardiola.
- [50:26]
Mark Critchley
I mean, Pep's so strange about these things. Like what? Like saying that he prefers it when, like, Messi is effective or whatever. Like, that wasn't effective. Like, it wasn't like a beautiful Truela Cross that landed right on Fulfillment's head and they scored for it. Like, how's that not effective? How's that not effective? But that's. That's Pep, obviously for him, Messi is. There's Messi and then there's everybody else. And I think, to be honest, a lot of us would agree with that statement anyway. But now Cherky, he's coming into his own a little bit. You're starting to see, I think maybe not in those specific moments, but you're starting to see him getting trusted a little bit more by Pep as well in terms of the playing time, first of all, and also his teammates, I think almost just as good as the little Trivella itself. Was Foden's reaction to it after he'd scored in the celebration, and just the joy that was on Foden's face for Cherokee for pulling it off. I think he's the player that a lot of players would like and appreciate and enjoy playing with as well, and you can see that in City's players at the minute. So I'm sure that that, that fan club that you speak about is taking a lot of subscriptions at the moment because. Because he's. He's just a joy to watch.
- [51:39]
Host (Matt)
Palace wise Andy Munoz being out is massive for them. Right. Nathaniel Klein will come in in his place, dependable Premier League performer in his day, but he's 34. He hasn't played 90 minutes since September of last year. It's a. It's a big blow for them, isn't it, not having Munoz?
- [51:55]
Andy Jones
Yeah, that's quite a difference between those two players, isn't there? I mean, Munoz is so key to the system, them. He just gives him such an outlet, his energy. He's incredible. I think, you know, coming into it recent weeks, he's been effective as well in terms of his, you know, a couple of goals and assist. I think. So, yeah, he's going to be a massive miss. And yet Klein's not quite got the same skill set. One, I don't think you can expect him to be up and down the pitch in the way Munoz is. But also, you know, Klein has never really been, you know, never really been blessed with that attack and sort of output or qualities. He was much more of a, you know, a defensive right back who kept you solid on that side and sort of let the winger ahead of them thrive. So, yeah, we'll be a bit of an adjustment, but I guess winning without Munos was a positive crit.
- [52:40]
Host (Matt)
You would have seen palace post European action a couple of weeks ago, right, when they played United at Selhurst Park. It's something that we're falling back on time and time again about the impact of European football, but almost feels like it's more significant for palace because their squad is so small and that's something that Klasn has not been shy about talking about. He maybe has to get his rotation right more than anybody else.
- [53:04]
Mark Critchley
Yeah, I mean, as you say, I was there at Salisburg a couple of weeks ago. The drop off second half was so noticeable. Ruben Amarin actually was saying that he'd noticed it towards the end of the first half and I hadn't. He was a better analyst of this stuff than me, as you'd absolutely expect him to be. But second half it was clear and once United went ahead there was no way palace were getting back into that game, which was the most surprising thing I think if you look at their record after conference league games, I think it's played since league fair started. It's played four, draw one, lost three. This isn't great now we played Shelbourne last night. It looked like to me it looked like they've rotate. Glassner had rotated a little bit more than he's had previously but you know they've got quite a few injuries to deal with now. Not only Munoz Sars out obviously. I think it was a bit of a question mark over Mateta. If you ask Glassner he'll say that he didn't have the backing in the summer and that was how he was answering every single question that was put to him after that United gave a couple of weeks ago. Whatever it was, it just came back to the summer and the lack of backing that he'd had. So it's clearly a point that he wants to get across in a bit of a bugbear. But I can also from the other side of things, I can understand why the perhaps didn't get that because they just had so much else going on with the Europa League conference league stuff, you know. So I can sympathise to, to an extent. I think he does need to start trying to trust a few other players in the squad a little bit more. Seemed like he did that last night so maybe that stands in good stead for the weekend.
- [54:25]
Host (Matt)
We shall see. Let's get rapid fire through the rest of the game. Saturday tee time. Burnley against Fulham. You're going to be at this one, Andy. The Scott Parker derby as nobody's calling it massive for Burnley and for Parker in particular though, right. He can ill afford to lose again.
- [54:42]
Andy Jones
Yeah, it's at six on the bounce. Six defeats on the bounce in the league. So it's, it's huge in the, in the. In the script here that Benley don't beat in the last 29 home league games against Fulham which is if. So if there was anyone they needed to play to get out of this funk. Think we'll be full on my home by the looks of it, but yeah, they really, really need the winners beginning to get a little bit of, oh, no, not again. Setting in among the fan base a little bit in terms of is it just going to be another season where we just sort of wilt and fade away? They've been much better than they were two years ago in terms of competitiveness. But that is, you know, at the moment that's not getting them any points. So, yeah, this fear is like a really big one in terms of can they sort of begin to. To change that mood a little bit? Bit and sort of, you know, Fulham can provide that, that type of opposition where if you catch them on the right day, you can beat them. So, yeah, it's going to be an interesting one. But yeah, they really could do with a win.
- [55:35]
Host (Matt)
Sunday at 2 o'. Clock, Forest against Spurs. I am not going to name check the Australian manager who so nearly and still very possibly completely derailed my two time European champions season. Critch Thomas Frank versus Sean Deitch. Apparently they're mates. Feels like stylistically this could be quite a drab guest name.
- [55:55]
Mark Critchley
You're really talking it up now. Get Ange back. It wouldn't be driving Andrew say, I'll say his name. Bring Ange back. And maybe then it'd be a little bit more entertaining. At least perhaps not for whoever was had appointed him special guest referee. Yeah, yeah, why not? Why not? Maybe you could sit in Marinakis suit. Maybe you could take that for the day. Look, I don't know, I feel it's on paper. You're right. Of course it's. You wouldn't hold that too much hope for this one. But I don't know, if I was a Forest fan like yourself, I might be a little bit more optimistic than if I was a Tottenham fan going into this one. I just feel like at least Sean Dyche teams are just trying to be Sean Dyche teams. I feel like Thomas Frank's side don't really know if they want to be a Thomas Frank side or they want to be something more than that at the moment. So I think that gives for us the slight advantage.
- [56:48]
Host (Matt)
Oh, thank you. I feel more optimistic now. West Ham against Villa Clara on Clara action. You got a favorite. Red wine, Andy. And our Villa in the title race.
- [56:57]
Andy Jones
I don't do not like red wine at all. So, no, I don't have a favorite at all. And in terms of Villa being in title race, I mean, the form suggests. Yeah, I think you're in a title reason. So you're not really, aren't you with. With Arsenal's sort of little, little different recent weeks, you know, Villa a ride up there and feels like over the course of the season, it feels like it's unlikely that they'll stay right up there. But at the moment, you know, really, really informant. So, yeah, I'm. I'm going to say yes for now.
- [57:27]
Host (Matt)
All right. With a caveat, Brentford, Leeds. He put this in the Sunday 4:30 slot. Cridge, is it just me that thinks that Brentford are going to join the relegation battle party soon? Three defeats in their last four, terrible away. Etc, geography.
- [57:41]
Mark Critchley
I don't know if I agree, actually. I feel like I had them to be in and around it before the season started simply because of everything we said. They've lost Thomas Frank, they'd lost Brandon Burmo, they'd lost Jan Visser, they'd lost Odegaard as well, the captain. So it felt destined. But I've actually been pretty impressed by the way that there's just been a continuity there that I don't think a lot of us expected under Keith Andrews. And I understand that maybe they've had a difficult little run of late. But it's Brentford. What do you really expect? They're operating on one of the lowest wage budgets in the league, but they're always smart enough to make it work. And I feel like those smarts will ultimately get them out of any trouble that they might find themselves in. I can see, yeah, I could take your point. I could say, look, they've got Fulham, Leeds and Forest directly below them and West Ham. And I think to an extent all four of those are better than where they are right now. And so, yeah, they could get dragged into it, but I still feel like Brentford are just. They're just smart enough to not ultimately drop below that dotted red line. So I think they'll be okay.
- [58:50]
Host (Matt)
And finally, Man United against Bournemouth is Monday Night Football. Critchy said that United have turned so many corners, they're going in circles. Was the win over Wolves another corner or was it.
- [59:02]
Mark Critchley
Lads, it's Wolves, I think. I don't know because the corners are a bad thing as well. We need to stop these corners and stuff, start walking in a straight line. Okay, so no more corners. But also, yeah, I think the Wolves gameplay up until Wolves scored maybe, well, say up until United scored. And then for the second half from Wolves, it was one of, honestly, one of the most open, most naive performances that I think I've seen a Premier League side put in, certainly this season, but also for a Long time. Part of me wonders whether Wolves saw that United are having difficulties of their own. At the minute they're at home, they think let's take the game to them and we'll open up a little bit. But they got absolutely done over time and time again on the transition and if they play anything like that going to the Arsenal game, then again they'll get torn apart for United. I don't think you can read too much into it given that, but this is United. We read so much into positive results and a lot into negative results looks. Let's just try and walk in a straight line rather than going around in those circles. Yeah, fair.
- [60:10]
Host (Matt)
United are going to play a lot on Monday nights this season, Andy, because they're not in Europe. But, and I know that this is not of any particular interest to the authorities, but it feels harsh on Bournemouth fans. Right. How are you going to get up to Old Trafford and back again on a Monday night?
- [60:23]
Andy Jones
Yeah, it feels like it has to be a coach, doesn't it? But yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't look forward to being in work the next day, I have to say. So I don't, I don't envy them at all. But for all them, we do make the vision fair play because that, that is a proper trek and I'm sure they'll be hoping because Bournemouth, Bournemouth been pretty good. They're all Trafford, haven't they, in recent years. So I'm sure that they'll, they might go there with a bit of confidence and be on the way back with, with three points in, in the bag. But yeah, it's not a foregone conclusion, it's fair to say.
- [60:50]
Host (Matt)
Yep, they won 3 nil there around about this time last year actually, so that would be worth the trip if they can repeat that. Loads of great games to look forward to this weekend and that's where we're going to leave things for today. My thanks to Critch, Andy and to producer Jay and to you for listening, of course. Enjoy the football and we'll catch up with you soon.
- [61:09]
Sponsor/Producer Voice
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producer was Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic media company production and proudly sponsored by betfair.
- [61:45]
Andy Jones
Mic check, 1, 2. Are we recording? Hi, I'm Michelle Bernstein, an award winning chef, chef, restaurateur and mom I have a lot on my plate, including my psoriatic arthritis symptoms. That's why I was prescribed Cosentix. It helps me move better.
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Andy Jones
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Host (Matt)
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Mark Critchley
Paige desorbo they are Tommy John.
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Andy Jones
And yes, I'm stocking up because they.
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Mark Critchley
Make the best holiday gifts.
- [64:27]
LinkedIn Jobs Advertiser
So generous.
- [64:28]
Mark Critchley
Well, I'm a generous girly, especially when.
- [64:30]
Andy Jones
It comes to me.
- [64:31]
Mark Critchley
So I'm grabbing the softest sleepwear, comfiest underwear, and best fitting loungewear.
- [64:36]
LinkedIn Jobs Advertiser
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- [64:38]
Andy Jones
Of course I'm getting my dad Tommy John John and you.
- [64:41]
Mark Critchley
Of course.
- [64:42]
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Mark Critchley
Exactly.
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Andy Jones
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Mark Critchley
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