Loading summary
Transcript117 lines
- [00:01]
Host 1
As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season. We'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least ten dollars. Place bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic. See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 in New York, call 1-800-next step in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 in Massachusetts, 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for bedmgm yet, use bonus code theathletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager. Out here, it's not only the amazing.
- [01:19]
Host 2
Views, but the way time stretches out a little longer, how laughter bellows louder among friends, and how the breeze hits just right at the summit. With AllTrails, you can discover and experience the best of nature with over 450,000 trails worldwide and navigation right at your fingertips. Find your outside with AllTrails. Download the free app today and find your next outdoor adventure.
- [01:47]
Host 1
As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that grinds just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is linked. LinkedIn jobs when you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free, share it with your network, and get qualified candidates that can manage all in one place. Here's how it works. Post your job LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Either post your job for free or pay to promote promoted jobs. Get three times more qualified Applicants get qualified candidates. At the end of the day, they the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates. And with LinkedIn you can feel confident that you're getting the best. Based on LinkedIn data, 72% of SMBs using LinkedIn say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality candidates. You can let your network know you're hiring. You can even add a hiring frame to your profile Picture and get two times more qualified candidates. Find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.combaseballshow that's LinkedIn.combaseballshow to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [03:14]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Welcome to Transfers that Shook the World with me. Ayo Akinwaleere. A summer series for the Athletic fc Looking back at the moves that sparked fury and saw heroes and become villains, Manchester City have signed Carlos Tevez.
- [03:28]
Andy Mitten
The United player has come to join the revolution.
- [03:31]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Today we are heading back to July 2009 when Carlos Tevez swapped the red half of Manchester for blue.
- [03:41]
Andy Mitten
City has the ambition to become one.
- [03:43]
Host 1
Of the biggest clubs in the world and this for him was a decisive.
- [03:46]
Andy Mitten
Situation to make the move.
- [03:48]
Ayo Akinwaleere
So why was Tevas switch so controversial? And was this transfer the moment the balance of power shifted from United to City? They took Tevez and they're becoming the neighbors from hell. Okay, with us today we have our senior football writer, Ole Kay and Andy Mitten. So gentlemen, before we get into Carlos Tevez's move from City to United, let's just get a sense of where both teams were at that time. Let's start with the United perspective, Andy.
- [04:19]
Andy Mitten
Manchester United were the best team in the world and I'm smiling and laughing as I say this. And Carlos Tevez was an integral part of that team. He wasn't the leading star, that was Cristiano Ronaldo. But you had a front free sigh of Wayne Rooney, Carlos Tevez and Cristiano Ronaldo. He was industrious, he was popular, the fans used to sing his name. And then he decided that he wanted to be paid the same as Wayne Rooney or his agent did. And that's when trouble started.
- [04:50]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, yeah. What about the City side, Ollie? I imagine you know the Abu Dhabi takeover trying to make a statement in the Premier League as well, yeah, well.
- [04:58]
Host 2
It was definitely about trying to make a statement. They'd been obviously bought by Sheikh Mansour the previous summer, right at the end of the transfer window. They'd signed Robinho. They. There'd been all the talk about they were going to sign Cristiano Ronaldo, they were going to sign Steven Gerrard, Cesc Fabregas. I can't remember who else. Kakao, they made serious moves for, but they finished, I think they finished 10th that first season. And they were very much dismissed quite lightly by Sir Alex Ferguson at the time. They sort of didn't take them seriously at all. And I think City were desperate to. I mean, obviously to improve, but also to make dramatic statements. And I think that the signing of Tevez, to put it in that context, I think it was the statement that first really got under Manchester United's skin and told them that City were actually quite serious about this. It's not. Some of their other signings that summer were pretty erratic. But, yeah, the Tevez one was certainly one of the catalysts for what was to follow.
- [05:59]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, I mean, this was an interesting one and this made the news hugely for so many reasons. And we'll go into it as we carry on in this chat, gents. But like, you know, in two years at Manchester United, Tevez won two Premier League titles, a Champions League, a League cup and also a Club World Cup. So fair to say, it was well decorated there. But how on earth did United manage to let him go? I mean, you'd have thought there was something in here about potentially keeping him on for the next cycle. Andy.
- [06:24]
Andy Mitten
Yeah, it was about money. I remember 2018 and United players were still talking about how much Carlos Tevez went for. These were like first team players were like, this is how much he was earning. And I remember, and this is a crazy story, interviewing a lad called Lionel Messi. And I'll be honest, right, it was hard work, okay? And the tape recorder went off and he knew which city I came from. And he started asking me about Carlos Tevez and how much money Manchester City were paying. And I'm like, why are you asking me? You don't really know me. So the waves of that transfer, in terms of what he was paid were huge. He wasn't a Manchester United fan. Maybe there was a little bit of arrogance from Manchester United. You know, you should want to play here with the best team in the world, where big crowds were Manchester United. And as you alluded to earlier, Manchester City were not at that level. Manchester City were trying to build up a team which would become more powerful. And for them it worked absolutely perfectly. But United fans backed the manager. United fans sang anti Tevis songs after he left, alluding to the fact that he'd been greedy. Okay, that's one perspective. But there were plenty of Manchester United fans, players in history, including some of the best ever players who could have been accused of exactly the same. They pushed and pushed. You know, Roy Keane really pushed to be paid what he was worth. And Carlos Tevez could argue quite strongly that he should have been paid more money, although there was a drop off in his contribution to the team. So you add these factors aligning where United fans were not massively concerned when he left, that would all sort of come later. History would judge Carlos Tevez better later on than when he actually left the club.
- [08:22]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, Ollie, through this series, we look at players who've left certain clubs because they wanted glory elsewhere. But you know, Tevez was well decorated at Manchester United. Right. I mean, were you surprised by move to the blue side of Manchester?
- [08:35]
Host 2
Yeah, because if you look at, for example, Sergio Aguero moving, two years later, he was joining a team that had just qualified for the Champions League, had just won the FA Cup.
- [08:49]
Andy Mitten
Away to glory. For Manchester City, the wait is over. The first trophy since 1976. Roberto Mancini has brought it home to the sky blue half of Manchester.
- [09:07]
Host 2
They were clearly going places. They, they were only going one way by that stage. You look at Toure and David Silva and Balotelli and Milner in 2010, they were again moving, joining a team that was on the up. Mancini had taken over. But when, when Tevez went there in 2009, that was. That did seem like, well, you're not going there for more success. I remember Arsene Wenger being quite dismissive of the reasons why Colo Torre and Emmanuel Adebayor had gone there. And Rafa Benitez being the same about why Gareth Barry had chosen Man City over Liverpool at that time. But with Tevez, he was, he was leaving an incredibly successful team. You know, the best team on the planet. No, I would say Barcelona probably By that point, 2009 had just overtaken United at that point. But United were three in a row in the Premier League. We're a brilliant team and he decided to jump ship. And look, it was clearly all about money. There was none of this selling the project stuff at that point. Man City was still at that point. Yes, they could say we're going to be this, but they didn't really in 2009 have that clear sense of how they were going to get there, I think they had by a year later. And maybe the Teva's improvement and impact was. Was a big reason of that, but I think it was. It was clearly financially driven by him and by his agent, who, or never likes to be called his agent, but he's his manager, Kier Jirabcin, who also, as I recall, did rather well out of the deal.
- [10:31]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, I mean, Andy, how influential was Kier Jurabjian in this deal? But just in general for Tevez's career, hugely influential.
- [10:40]
Andy Mitten
You saw how many times Carlos Tevez moved football clubs even before he came to Manchester United. This wasn't someone who'd nailed his colors to a cross and said, I'm going to be here for life. You know, emotionally, he didn't connect as strongly with fans, partly for linguistic reasons. I'd say his connection with West Ham fans was stronger than with Manchester United supporters. And anyone could see how good him and Javier Mascarano were playing for, for West Ham. But he was quite cynical. It was, get them into the Premier League, get them to a platform and we will maximize your earnings, which an agent might say is my job to do. And a footballer might have said to him, maximize my earnings. Fans always see things slightly differently through the prism of how they support their club. And it was partly on Ferguson, this. Ferguson felt that he had undue influence in the transfer market. This was an era where he said, there's no value in the market. Well, I'm sorry, Sir Alex. Ferguson did not decide the supply and demand of the transfer market in world football. And maybe he felt that the team could be okay without Carlos Tevez. And he was right because Manchester United reached three European cup finals, Champions League finals in four years. But Carlos Teffes was still a very, very good player for Manchester United. But it was a double hit because he joined Manchester City, who at the time were a very little threat to Manchester United. But that would all change with Carlos Tevez. But his agent was absolutely part of it. And Ferguson didn't trust what was going on, didn't like the people around Carlos Tevez and stood up to them and was like, okay, off you go then.
- [12:29]
Host 2
There was also this sort of unique aspect to it where Mascarano and Tevez, when they'd come from Corinthians and they'd both joined West Ham, they'd been sort of part owned by Duruptions and, well, another investor's company, this media sports investment company. So you had this very strange situation where the player's economic rights in both cases were still owned by this company, msi. So when his two year contract with or his initial contract with West Ham came to an end, basically United had to buy his economic rights for those two seasons from msi. Likewise Liverpool with buying Mascherano. And so because it was such a short contract, it was only two years and then Drabcha wanted this to be the sort of player representation model in the transfer market and it never, you know, it was quickly outlawed for various reasons. But yeah, there was, there was a vulnerability that you wouldn't normally get with a star player at Manchester United. He was there for the taking. He had that short contract and it was a case of negotiating with his owners, which were not the club.
- [13:35]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Right Next we'll get into one of the more memorable aspects of the move involving a certain billboard.
- [13:43]
Host 2
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast.
- [13:45]
Host 1
With IO akamolere As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that grinds just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn jobs when you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn makes it easy to post your job for free. Share it with your network, and get qualified candidates that can manage all in one place. Here's how it works. Post your job LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Either post your job for free or pay to promote promoted jobs. Get three times more qualified applicants get qualified candidates at the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates. And with LinkedIn you can feel confident that you're getting the best. Based on LinkedIn data, 72% of SMBs using LinkedIn say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality candidates. You can let your network know you're hiring. You can even add a hiring frame to your profile Picture and get two times more quality candidates. Find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.combaseballshow that's LinkedIn.combaseballshow to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.
- [15:10]
Andy Mitten
The McDonald's Snack Wrap is back. You brought it back. Ranch snack Wrap. Spicy snack wrap.
- [15:17]
Host 2
You broke the Internet for a snack?
- [15:21]
Andy Mitten
Snack wrap is back.
- [15:25]
Host 1
You've done it again.
- [15:26]
Host 2
Finance teams. You Closed the books and it went fine. Sure, some expenses were missing receipts, but that's fine.
- [15:34]
Host 1
Stayed late to process invoices by hand.
- [15:37]
Andy Mitten
It's all fine.
- [15:38]
Host 2
But don't you deserve better than fine? With ramp, expenses are submitted with a.
- [15:42]
Host 1
Text, invoices are coded automatically, and everything is connected to your accounting system so you can close the books without all the busy work. Switch your business to ramp.com and love finance again.
- [16:01]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, gents. I mean, when he signed came the infamous billboard. Welcome to Manchester in sky blue. Carlos Tevez's hands out wide. I mean, if you want to cause some havoc, this is the kind of thing you do when you sign a player from the opposition side. Let's just take this back, gents. Andy, talk to me about what this meant and just set the scene for us as to how hostile this sort of made both sets of fans.
- [16:27]
Andy Mitten
City wanted to make a name for himself. City were ascendant. They had the money. You know, it was a huge signing for them. Take away the fact that of how much he was earning, the best way of doing that was to prick your neighbors. This idea of a billboard that had been done before. Man United fans in the mid-80s had paid for a billboard urging Norman Whiteside, a big player for the club, not to go to Italy and City were, in their eyes, improving all over the club. They had a marketing department, they had money, they could do this sort of stuff which would bring them attention. And they wanted attention. They wanted eyeballs. The team were not quite ready to compete with Manchester United. All that would come within two or three years. And I'm not sure how much Carlos Tevez knew about this. He was quite detached. I remember even interviewing him when he was at Manchester United on a pre season tour of South Africa. And I was basically asked to come in because I spoke and I got there and found this really bored looking human. And I managed to engage him not by talking about English football, but by the scene in Argentina, the Barra Bravas, the atmosphere of Boca. And then there was this flicker of interest. Is like you've been, you know. And it was only sort of post Manchester United that I began to learn a lot more about him. I wrote Patrice Evra's book with him, and Patrice became very good friends with Carlos Tevez. The three of them with Ji Sung park, they called themselves the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. They declined to name who was who there. You, you had this weird triangle where they actually got on really well. And when Tevas joined Manchester City, Evra absolutely hammered him. Hammered him, even on the pitch, you know, smashed straight into him. And Carlos Tevez is a. Is a barrio kid from Argentina. He can more than look after himselves. And Ferguson liked this. He liked his players going in aggressively. And United fans had lost a player who'd scored key goals in the Champions League. Remember one game at Lyon away.
- [18:36]
Ayo Akinwaleere
He'd.
- [18:36]
Andy Mitten
Always given 100 for Manchester United. And there are the cliches, which we'll talk about how he didn't train, he was lazy, he didn't care, he didn't even tie his boots properly. But on a match day, you could never accuse him of not giving 100%. But when City put that out, what would the typical reaction have been from United fans? Knobs.
- [19:00]
Ayo Akinwaleere
What about the seaside, Ollie? Like, you know, I mean, surely you're stirring the waters there purposefully or on purposefully?
- [19:07]
Host 2
Well, I mean, fans might have dismissed it, but Alex Ferguson was. It really annoyed him. Just looking up what he said at the time. He said, it's City, isn't it? They're a small club with a small mentality. All they could talk about is Manchester United. They can't get away from it. Taking Carlos Tevis away from Manchester United is a triumph. It's poor stuff. I mean, Ferguson absolutely loathed, absolutely loathed this new setup at Manchester City. I mean, genuinely, he. He was very dismissive of it in terms of thinking, you know, he didn't take them seriously as a football threat, even when they started to sign, you know, Tevez and Adebayor and Color Torre and players like that. But he was absolutely scathing, I think, even worse off the record, about stuff like this and some of the stuff that. Remember that Soleiman Al Fahim, the sort of frontman for the takeover in the early days, and he was sort of talking about, will sign Cristiano Ronaldo, will sign Steven Gerrard, Cesc Fabregas. And Ferguson's response to that was, I remember the Sunderland being known as the bank of England club back in the day. They got relegated. City were genuinely in relegation trouble in the early days of that takeover, and then it sort of changed dramatically. But in terms of how City viewed it, we did a piece with Gary Cook, their ex chief executive, in the early days of the Athletic. I'm sure people could find it if they want to look at it on the app. I think he felt that the billboard was a bit provocative. Is it going to wind people up? But he was well up for a bit of that. He made the point that City need to be sort of Reassert themselves in Manchester, become a competitive force in England and ultimately to go global. And I remember sitting there in a room with him and he was talking about all these big ambitions for Manchester City and we were like going, you've got to be kidding, mate. None of this sounds realistic. But you look back and look, you can question the charges that are hanging over the club, but in terms of actual achieving what, what they said they would do, they. They've done it all, really. And it probably makes it even more satisfying for them that Manchester United have taken the opposite journey to mid table over the same period. Sorry, Andy.
- [21:23]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, and Andy, we joke about it, but, like, do you think Sir Alex Ferguson was rattled, though? Because, you know, this is a seasoned man, he's seen the world of football. You've got to be conscious when they nick one of your good players, take them across and think, okay, hold on, there's something here. There's something different here. Surely in the same way that perhaps Arsene Wenger might have rattled him or even Liverpool might have taken him toe to toe.
- [21:45]
Andy Mitten
Well, he had another club to worry about. Manchester City within two or three years became a club that went toe to toe with Manchester United. The first time I thought, City have got a proper team here was the 2010 League cup semi finals. And Manchester United just about got through again. City, it could be called into action again. It's Rooney, it's way and Rooney. That surely means a trip back to Wembley. But a year later, in the FA cup semi final at Wembley, City knocked United out of the FA cup on the way to winning a first trophy. For 36 years, I think it was 35 years. And United fans had really poked fun out of City. There was the odometer on the Stratford End, which City fans absolutely hated, which started with 17 years. And each year would tick up and up and it got to 35 years and United fans would sing, you know, 28 years and you've won f all City is your name and City makes a mind. It drove them mad. There were City fans who paid to go on the tour of Old Trafford just to try and get near that banner, to try and rip it down. But the tour didn't go anywhere near the second tier of the Stretford End, where the banner hung from. So it's almost descended into fanzine talk with the manager basically calling City what the fans called City. It wasn't very diplomatic, but there was a threat there because he could see that in going for players, you know, like Eden Hazard, Samir Nasrid, Dimitar Berbatov. Suddenly he had a competition. There were two options for players in Manchester and, you know, Berbatov had a choice and chose Manchester United because United were in Paris at the time. But it started to change and Tevez was the first person who left United, weakened United and strengthened City. He detached himself from all. I don't think he cared too much about the fan culture in Manchester. So it was left to people like Patrice Evra or Rafael the Brazilian. And I spoke to him about Carlos Tevez because they had quite a few set twos together on the pitch. And I said, is this a Brazil, Argentina thing? No, no, no, no, no. It's just that, you know, you shouldn't move from one club to another like he did. So it caught among the players as well. And Tevez probably feigned ignorance, probably said, you know, I don't. I'm not really bothered about, about any of this. And I don't think he ever felt truly loved by Ferguson. It was put to me at one point by an extremely reliable source that he felt that because he was Argentinian because of the Falklands War. And I'm like, this just isn't true as well, that he had. Ferguson had something against him, but I don't believe that at all. But if you're Argentinian, there's always that little edge between Brits because of what had happened in the Falklands, Malvinas. So there's all sorts of geopolitical reasons, financial reasons. It's just this mixture and you just stirring into this big pot of vitriol. And the fact that we're still speaking about it one and a half decades later shows that.
- [24:59]
Host 2
Remember, Andy, the 4:3 game at Old Trafford very early that next season. So Tevez was back there within weeks in a Manchester City shirt. And it was one of the great Premier League games. 43 win for Manchester United in the last minute. Michael Owen scored the winner, didn't he?
- [25:14]
Andy Mitten
Cleared away. As far as Ryan Giggs, who's placed one for Michael Owen, oh, this is incredible.
- [25:21]
Host 2
City played really well that day and I think they'd certainly lead at some point in the game. And I remember Vicky Kloss, who was Manchester City's communications officer at the time, it emerged that Alex Ferguson had had a bit of a pop at her in the tunnel afterwards, as he was. As he was celebrating. I think it was claimed that, yeah, he'd given her the full hair dryer treatment because he thought she was something to do with the banner. I think she was probably one of the few sort of longer serving staff members at the time, one that he would have recognized. And yeah, he gave her both barrels thinking that she was somehow to do with the billboard. But I think that hints at perhaps Man City having got under his skin. And that was when he came out the noisy neighbours line as well in the post match press conference. Okay, at the moment we have a neighbor and sometimes neighbors are noisy. We can't do any better. You've got, you've got all my life and we're going on with our life.
- [26:16]
Andy Mitten
And he encouraged Ollie and Ayo among his players as well. So the players would speak on the record. So Rafael said to me, I've had a few problems with Tevez on the pitch, but maybe we both got more angry than we should have done. I'm not gonna lie. He was an angry player who played with his heart. He was very good. But I have to be honest, he was not a good trainer. So blah, blah, blah that Ferguson just encouraged this because there was a, an enmity there, which is probably what Manchester City wanted. You know, okay, we're climbing into the ring with you now and we're going to go toe to toe with you. And it might take us a couple of years to do that, but up until that point, the only time Fergie had to worry about City was in the derby twice a year, which to be fair, City, they won a disproportionate number of times.
- [27:03]
Ayo Akinwaleere
So we've spoken about the controversy of the famous billboard, but what was the reaction inside the Manchester City squad? Here's Shay Given, who was at the time with Manchester City as their goalkeeper. And here are his recollections of Tevis's dramatic arrival.
- [27:21]
Shay Given
Carlos Tevis joining Man City was incredible at the time. Obviously there's rumors in the media that he was joining, but we couldn't believe it really when he, when he sort of joined the club and came into the training ground and you know, the welcome to Manchester billboards are all around the Manchester where he drove into the training ground. They were everywhere to be seen. So obviously rubbing up the Man United fans the wrong way, of course. But a big statement from Manchester City to get one of their best players on board was very special for the club, of course at the time. And looking back was a huge signing for Manchester City and a big statement as much as anything.
- [27:57]
Ayo Akinwaleere
I mean, look, Shay Given clearly took pride in rubbing the next door neighbors up with that massive sign. Oli. But you know, I do wonder what that felt like from a Manchester City perspective. Nicking one of the best players from the neighbours in terms of intent and what this team actually felt they wanted to do moving forward.
- [28:16]
Host 2
Yeah, it definitely was. And their first year after the takeover, everything was really kind of chaotic. They signed Robinho and I don't think he, he ever really, I mean look, he scored quite a few goals but I don't think he ever really sort of quite understood what he was there for. Then second year, obviously they, they'd gone at it a bit more seriously. It was Tevez, it was Adebayor, it was Toure. They were going for players who I think they thought it wasn't necessarily doing things in a particularly strategic way, apart from perhaps that sort of almost Bayern Munich thing of trying to nick players off your rivals and, and, and do it that way. But yeah, City, by that second season, I mean, and it was largely due to Tevis because he was, I mean, second half of the season he was excellent. He really was. After a bit of a slow start, but yeah, they narrowly missed out on top four in Champions League. There was that game later on against Tottenham that they lost. But I think over the course of that season, once Mancini had taken over from Mark Hughes, I think it became clear that City were going places. And as Andy had said about the League cup semifinal where City won the first leg two one A ten scored two in that, that Tevis had a bit of a pop at Ferguson on the touchline, bit of a pop with Gary Neville maybe Ferguson, Mancini were having a bit of a bust up. And then the second leg was very dramatic where United won it very late on at Old Trafford. At by that stage it felt like this was a genuine rivalry again and that City were actually going to be a threat the years coming forward.
- [29:44]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah. What does this mean for United though? I mean United have lost players to teams like Real Madrid for instance, Andy. But to City, this is an interesting one.
- [29:54]
Andy Mitten
Well, United fans went from singing Fergie sign him up during Sir Alex Ferguson's post match speech to celebrate the 2009 league title to watching him leave the club just a month later. And in a dash he became public enemy number one. And all the songs started and it was frustrating to watch, you know him because he is an excellent player and him play his part in Manchester City's rise and he never explained himself. He didn't need to explain himself. He just needed to bank the money and play well, which is what he did. And I've spoken to Manchester City players of that time and they've all got these funny stories about him not speaking to anyone, just turning up with all his mates training badly, then going home, but getting the winner in a big game at the weekend and that probably makes him more of an iconic figure. Some United players did stay in touch with him. Patrice Everest certainly did, but Ferguson didn't like that. He's like, what are you doing? I've heard he was playing pool at your house the other night. What's all that about? And ever, because he's quite cheeky, will be like, no, I'm just telling him that he's made the wrong decision. So it mustn't have been easy for Tevez living in Manchester, but I honestly don't think he cared that much. I don't think he just brought into the fan culture. He was from Buenos Aires, his allegiances were there, he was there to play football in Manchester and he did that very well. You never hear of him coming back to Manchester and if he came back to Manchester United, it'd be a real awkward one because he was, he was a top player for a couple of years. But there will never be a statue of Carlos Tevez at Old Trafford.
- [31:35]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Well, next we'll look at how influential Tevez would prove to be at Manchester City.
- [31:42]
Host 1
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO akamolere. As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season. We'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code TheAthletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a 1500 dollar first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works. Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code TheAthletic. Make your first deposit of at least $10. Place your first bet on any game and claim your voucher for a one year subscription to the Athletic. See betmgm.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C. mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler available in the U.S. call 877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny467-369 In New York, call 1-800- NEXT STEP in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 Massachusetts 1-800-bets off in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1, 800-9810023 in Puerto Rico. First bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BETMGM yet, use bonus code theathletic and you'll get a one year subscription to the Athletic plus up to a fifteen hundred dollar first bet offer on your first wager. When you're a forward thinker, the only thing you're afraid of is business as usual. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people and money today so you can transform tomorrow. Workday moving business forever forward.
- [33:17]
Host 2
The youth mental health crisis is growing and social media is a major driver.
- [33:22]
Andy Mitten
Kids are spending up to nine hours.
- [33:24]
Host 2
A day on screens, often unsupervised, and.
- [33:26]
Andy Mitten
Studies show a direct link to anxiety.
- [33:29]
Host 2
Depression and even suicidal thoughts. That's where GAB comes in. GAB offers safe phones and watches with no Internet or social media.
- [33:36]
Andy Mitten
Just the right tech at the right time.
- [33:38]
Host 2
From smart watches for young kids to advanced parent managed phones for teens, Gab keeps kids connected safely.
- [33:45]
Shay Given
Visit gab.com getgab and use code getgab.
- [33:49]
Andy Mitten
For a special offer that's G-A-B-B.com forward slash getgab.
- [33:55]
Host 2
Gab tech in steps independence for them.
- [33:58]
Andy Mitten
Peace of mind for parents.
- [34:04]
Host 2
This is the Athletic FC podcast with.
- [34:06]
Andy Mitten
IO Akamolera Tevez on a hat trick.
- [34:09]
Host 2
It's Tevez.
- [34:10]
Andy Mitten
He's going alone. Tevez. And it's scored. Jinking one way, going the other. Tevez all on his own. Carlos Tevez. Brilliant. Here comes the City captain. It's going to be Tevez. What a brilliant free kick that is.
- [34:26]
Ayo Akinwaleere
72 goals in Tevis's first two seasons at Manchester City help fire them to FA cup glory, followed by securing Champions League qualification. I. I guess we've spoken about it in terms of some of the players that came in, but I'm just thinking how transformational that signing was for the Manchester City project. By the time you look at 2010, Oli, you're looking at Yaya Toure coming through the door, David Silva coming through the door, James Milner coming through the door as well.
- [34:51]
Host 2
Yeah, Balotelli. Don't forget Balotelli. Oh, yeah, yeah. By 2010 they were going places. They had better people in on the recruitment side. They had a much more clear sense of these are the players we need. It wasn't just sort of being agent driven and thinking who's a big name that we can sign? It was who's a really good player who will fit this part of our team. And you saw them building that team and it was. The money they spent was absolutely enormous, sort of off the scale compared to what, you know, even Manchester United and Chelsea and Liverpool, Arsenal was spending it at that time. And it's also, I mean, we can't not mention, but it's still under investigation now, whether they broke the rules in doing all that, whether they signed players, players with financial contracts that they shouldn't have had, whether the commercial revenue was legitimate in terms of the Premier League's fair play rules. So that's all still going on. But in terms of the City project, the team on the pitch was put together very smartly over those few years and they became a real force. And obviously they narrowly missed out on Champions League in 2010, 11, qualified the following season, but also won the FA Cup. That was. That was huge. And by that stage, I think so obviously, Aguero became the real superstar of the team. David Silva, Yaya Torre. But at that time, if you go back to that sort of 2009, 10 season, Tevez was the star. He really was, and he was captain when they won the FA cup in 2011. I think if you asked most people, most football fans on the street, who was captain when man city were the FA cup, they'd say Vincent Co. But Vincent Co. Didn't become club captain until Teres had either left or fallen dramatically out of favor, as we'll discuss. But he was a real star for them on the pitch. He elevated the quality. He was such a hard worker, tireless, aggressive quality in a not necessarily a silky finesse type way. But he was a brilliant, brilliant player. And I think he would probably be remembered more, almost more fondly in the Premier League in some ways, if all of his great moments had come with one team, whether it was West Ham, whether it was United, whether it was City, rather than just these short, condensed spells at three different clubs. He made a big, big impact all three.
- [37:15]
Andy Mitten
He scored 23 goals in his first season at City. That was the best in his career. And as Oli quite rightly said, that made Roberto Mancini promote him to captain. And that decision was endorsed by all of his teammates. So you had this weird situation, or weird to an outsider, where someone who ostensibly didn't speak English has become captain of the club.
- [37:39]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, I was wondering how that works. Yeah, good point.
- [37:41]
Andy Mitten
I mean, he was the talisman of an ascendant Manchester City team. He said publicly he was happy at City and that his ambition was to help them win A first trophy in 35 years. He was a catalyst, so the fans absolutely love that. And he had the talent to back it up. And the other acquisitions which City made were far smarter than Urabino style ones. I remember interviewing Robinho for the front cover of 442 magazine, December 2008. It was a complete disaster. He didn't even know where he was. It was in Macclesfield and. And I remember speaking to his agent and saying, I just cannot use this. You know, it's just. This is absolutely terrible. But City got their act together in terms of their recruitment and Gary Cook is a much derided figure, but he was the one who actually brought in Omar Berarda from FC Barcelona and he is now the chief executive of Manchester United. So Cook did a lot of things right. Maybe he spoke too much, but he wasn't a stupid man.
- [38:41]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, well, talking of Tevez, Ollie's just obviously spoken about just how, how much of a star he was on the field and I wondered what he was like in training and actually we went back to Shay, given once again to get a sense of his impact at City.
- [38:55]
Shay Given
Carles as a player was phenomenal player for City. He was just incredible. When he crossed the white line, he was like a man possessed. Chasing defenders, goalkeepers, scoring some amazing goals and assisting. He was phenomenal. I don't think they signed him for his training prowess because he wasn't the best trainer I've ever come across. I think he saved every ounce of energy for match days and I don't think any manager could blame him because come Saturday, 3 o' clock or whenever kickoff was, he was, he was such a talented player and his work rate just sort of spread through the team. Everyone was backing him up when he was chasing defenders. And the press, he started the press off every single time. An immense player and a great goal scorer as well. Fantastic player.
- [39:38]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah. I mean, look, Andy, I often wonder if these kind of players can get away with playing in the game as it is right now, you know, don't train that well. But you turn up on the Saturday and just be absolutely incredible. Eden Hazard has been said to be that kind of play. Even Lionel Messi sometimes been said to be that kind of player. Tevez was that magician on the field, wasn't he? And I just had this knack of that star quality when he was needed the most. Yeah.
- [40:02]
Andy Mitten
And another factor we've not mentioned is he was never going to be the main man at Manchester United, especially when, when Rooney was and when Ronaldo had been there, but at City, he could become the main man. And if he had an ego, then that would be very appealing. You are the person who is going to become the center point of a team that's going to become great again. And I've spoke to United players who've said that about him, although I've just found here the notes are made when. When Evra called him up after he'd signed Carlito. What are you doing? This shirt isn't new. I've been to your house and you still have a picture of yourself wearing a United shirt near your pool table. You're a red. You know deep in your heart that you're a red. And I don't actually believe that's true, but Ferguson saw Evra and Tevez when he was at City. City pictured outside a restaurant in a newspaper. And Ferguson called Ever into his office and said, I do not want my players to be associated with those from Manchester City. And Ever's like, look, he's my friend, you know, I'm good friends with him. Ferguson's like, I don't care. So it plays back into what Oli's saying about Ferguson really, really not liking it. But the United players felt that City, with Tevez, had become a really strong team physically, but also disciplined. They'd brought in players from around the world, but they look like a team and you could see that in the way that they became ascendant. They reached the first Wembley final in 29 years. Tevez was absolutely in form. I think he got 13 goals in 10 starts towards the end of that season.
- [41:41]
Ayo Akinwaleere
I guess this really signaled something different, didn't it, Oli? You know, I would say the fact that Manchester City were now a really credible threat against Manchester United. We know we've spoken about The League Cup FA Cup Semi Final 2011 Manchester City won at Wembley en route to winning the trophy. You know, famous Derby win, 4, 3 win. In September 2009, Sir Alex Ferguson came out with that noisy neighbors tag. The powers starting to shift, weren't they? We could really see this team emerging as not just the biggest team in Manchester, but in the Premier League.
- [42:15]
Host 2
Yeah, yeah, definitely over the, over the course of that period. I mean, obviously United still won the Premier League in 2011 and in 2013 in Ferguson's final season. But I think there was a real sense even at Old Trafford then that they were doing it against the odds in that a lot of the real stars of that late 90s 2000s team were really coming to the end. They were almost exclusively signing Younger players, for example, they went for David De Gea when they needed a replacement for Edouard Vadasar. David De Gea was an incredibly talented goalkeeper, but a fairly raw one at that time. Danny Welbeck, Cicciorito, Rafael, Fabio, Smalling, Jones, cleverly Anderson. It was a fairly young team and United were kind of holding on a bit to some extent. And the fact that they won the league title in Those final, well, 2011 and 2013 I think was really against, against, against the odds really. Because City, you look at those squads on paper now and you remember that you're not talking about peak, Ryan Giggs, you talk about sort of Ryan Giggs in his late 30s, Paul Scholes in his late 30s, Vidic Evra, past the best. United were up against it and did incredibly well to win those league titles. But I think you could just see that the balance had shifted and City, if they performed to their potential, were going to win league titles.
- [43:42]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah, do you see that, Andy? You know, United were hanging on regardless of obviously getting it over the line in the Premier League a couple of times since Tevez was signed.
- [43:51]
Andy Mitten
Yeah, the league positions represented that. City went from mid table to six to third to becoming genuine title candidates. There was one game at Old Trafford where some City fans tell me that they scored more than five goals. I've got no recollection of it.
- [44:07]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Mean Silva volleys it forward brilliantly and.
- [44:10]
Andy Mitten
Puts it on a plate for again, it is six, six of the best for Manchester City. United not just beaten, humiliated. It showed that City work were becoming, becoming the real deal from a, a footballing perspective. In Roberto Mancini they had a, they had a decent manager as well. And then I suppose this is all moving towards something that happened in 2012. So carry on with your question and I'll answer to the best of my ability.
- [44:44]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Well, I want to finish on this really. I always think about people's legacies and I wonder if this one's slightly tarnished simply because he never really stayed somewhere long enough. We talk about West Ham, we talk about Manchester United, we talk about Manchester City and he's won a fair bit in the Premier League, gents, but what do you think his overall legacy will be in the Premier League as a player? We'll start with you, Ollie.
- [45:03]
Host 2
Wow. I mean, it's not even particularly moments. I think it's a big impact at three different clubs. I mean it's helping West Ham almost single handedly avoid relegation in 2007. It's being a big, big part of that Manchester United team that won. Well, certainly the second and third of those three in a row. And if you ask, I'm sure I've heard Wayne Rooney say that Tevez was his favorite strike partner. Have I got that right? Right? I think he has. I think you would have said almost on paper they were quite similar in a way in that they both like to go everywhere. But it worked so well and he made a big, big impact at United, no doubt about that. Was part of a brilliant front three, I guess you would call it with Ronaldo Rudy, and then to be part of the team that, that really turned the tide in, in Manchester and in the Premier League. But there's always a sort of a but with Tevez. Mean maybe not with West Ham, because I think it was, you know, it was, it was more clear cut. But with United it was the circumstances in which he left and then with City it was the fact that he, well, at first of all asked for a transfer out of the blue as City saw it, and then fell out with Mancini. Completely refused to come off the bench during a, a Champions League game that he refused to go in.
- [46:20]
Ayo Akinwaleere
He refused to come onto the pitch.
- [46:21]
Host 2
Refused to come on the pitch.
- [46:23]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [46:23]
Shay Given
That's an extraordinary situation.
- [46:25]
Andy Mitten
Do you think he will ever play for you again?
- [46:26]
Host 2
After refusing to play for me, It's.
- [46:29]
Host 1
A bad situation because in a game like this, it's impossible that one player refused to go in to help.
- [46:37]
Host 2
The team was fined and disappeared for six months, which is pretty hard to justify or defend or look upon fondly. So from September of that season he didn't appear again until late March and he came off the bench for a game against Chelsea where City were really, you know, their title challenge was really flagging by that point. He came off the bench and he had a huge impact, helped them turn it around and win two one. And he had a huge impact really in that run in when others were sort of starting to flag a bit. Tevez was one of the ones who came to the fore and I'm just surprised to, to look back and, and see that he was subbed in the decisive game against qpr. I mean, City played dreadfully that game. Seems to have about 95% possession and put a million crosses in and were not threatening to score. And he was one of the ones. He made way for Balotelli, which would have been a, a surprising call at that point because Balotelli had been out of favor as well after a red card at Arsenal. So his impact on. I don't think they would have won the league had he not come back. But I'm not going to praise him for that because I think if, if he hadn't got away in the first place for six months of the season, I think City would probably have won it with 10 points to spare. But what would have been the fun in that? There would have been no Aguero moment, would there? So maybe it was best for them to sort of scrape over the line.
- [48:05]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Yeah. Three clubs in, in seven years, Andy, three Premier League titles. He's had his controversies in every club. He's probably beat it really. What do you think is overriding legacy is in the Premier League as, as I would say one of the all time great strikers of the Premier League.
- [48:20]
Andy Mitten
He was, he was a world class footballer. Carlos Teva's won 25 different trophies in club football at seven different clubs. He won more at Manchester United than he won at Manchester City. He was probably the best player in the Champions league final in 2008 for Manchester United. I joked earlier about the clubs not having a statue of him and I mean that because he didn't tie himself to one club. The club who talked about being a fan of was, was Boca and he did go back there towards the end of his career and he won an awful lot. He won the league title I think three or four times in sort of 15, 17, 18, 20. He won in China. He was successfully Juventus as well. People often overlook the fact that, that he went there. He was a world class player. He wasn't lean or Messi class, but then who is? And he was dispassionate, I think, or you could call him coldly calculating. He was paid to do a job and he did that job. But this wasn't someone who was kissing the badge, pledging his allegiance for years because he didn't have that in him. And also the way that his agent stroke managers did it him, they probably maximized his income, which is a horrible way of looking at it, but they did. I remember him going to, to China and the wages we were on were reputed to be among the highest in the world. Stories quickly came out. He wasn't particularly happy there. He maximized his, his earnings. He's not someone who Man United fans speak of in sort of legendary tones. He's not someone who's ever going to be signed up as a club ambassador for Manchester United. Like players who achieved far less than Carlos Tevez. That's just the way he is. He's got a storied career. It's one hell of a story.
- [50:18]
Ayo Akinwaleere
It is one hell of a story. I've thoroughly enjoyed hearing it. Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time. Andy Oli for your insight and also Shay Given for dropping in those voice notes and recollections as well. Let us know what you think of this episode and also this series will be back with more Transfers that Shook the World very soon. Him you've been listening to the Transfers.
- [50:37]
Host 1
That Shook the World here on the Athletic FC Podcast.
- [50:40]
Host 2
The producers were Guy Clark and Lucy Oliva with sound design by Jay Beal. The executive producer is A.D. moorhead.
- [50:45]
Host 1
To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free.
- [50:48]
Host 2
Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify.
- [50:50]
Ayo Akinwaleere
And all the usual places.
- [50:51]
Host 2
The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic.
- [50:54]
Host 1
Media company production.
- [50:59]
Andy Mitten
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [51:08]
Host 1
When you're a forward thinker, the only thing you're afraid of is business as usual. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people and money today so you can transform tomorrow. Workday moving business forever forward.
- [51:23]
Host 2
Hey, it's Marc Maron from WTF here to let you know that this podcast.
- [51:27]
Host 1
Is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.
- [51:29]
Host 2
And I'm sure the reason you're listening.
- [51:30]
Host 1
To this podcast right now is because.
- [51:32]
Host 2
You chose to it well.
- [51:34]
Ayo Akinwaleere
Choose Progressives.
- [51:35]
Host 1
Name your price tool and you could.
- [51:37]
Host 2
Find insurance options that fit your budget so you can pick the best one for your situation. Who doesn't like choice? Try it@progressive.com and now some legal info.
- [51:48]
Host 1
Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match Limited by state law.
- [51:54]
Host 2
Not available in all states.
- [51:56]
Host 1
Ready to level up your everyday Quince makes premium essentials without the premium price tag. From quality clothing and stylish accessories to travel staples and high end home goods, Quint has it all. And by partnering directly with top artisans and ethical factories, Quince delivers high quality at half the cost of similar brands. Shop elevated essentials without the markup at quint. Go to quint.com level up for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com level up.