USA's statement win + can Brazil lift a sixth World Cup?

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: USA’s Statement Win + Can Brazil Lift a Sixth World Cup?
Hosts: Adam Leventhal, Emma Paton
Date: June 13, 2026
Guests & Contributors: Tim Spears, Art de Roche, Henry Bushnell (LA, for the US opener), Jordan Campbell (Boston, for Scotland’s opener)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the aftermath of the USA’s emphatic opening win against Paraguay at the 2026 World Cup and turns the lens on Brazil’s bid for a record sixth title. Packed with on-the-ground reports, expert insight, and vibrant debate, the team explores early tournament atmospheres in the host cities, weighs up Brazil’s real prospects, and previews pivotal group matches for Scotland and others. The show also includes a light-hearted quiz, a look at surprise packages (including Haiti), and highlights emerging players to watch.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

USA’s Statement Victory Over Paraguay

Segment: [00:07–13:07]

• Opening Impressions:

  • The USA’s 4-1 win over Paraguay set an electrifying tone at Sofi Stadium, LA.
  • Henry Bushnell (on-the-ground): "It was almost a perfect night, save for one Paraguay goal and maybe a minor Christian Pulisic injury… It was everything coming together for this U.S. national team at just the right time." ([02:13])
  • Excitement is growing, with a tangible shift in fan engagement and belief.

• Team Chemistry & Standout Players:

  • Art de Roche: "What really came across was they all gelled. I thought… I saw a team that understood where to be at the right moments… a really fluid kind of game, especially in that first half." ([05:06])
  • Folarin Balogun emphasized as a breakout talent, both for his goals and compelling backstory. (“Born in Brooklyn… grew up in London… always highly rated at Arsenal’s academy.” [07:18])
  • Gio Reyna’s goal celebration also revealed his wife’s pregnancy, announced live post-match.

• Atmosphere & Impact:

  • Tim Spears: "This is the America that we wanted… not just the team, but the whole occasion. The fans were so engaged. The atmosphere sounded amazing. 70,000 full house… it was a brilliant occasion." ([04:11])
  • There are concerns about depth and injuries, especially if Pulisic or Richards are sidelined, but confidence is high.

• Future Outlook:

  • There’s a consensus that expectations should be measured (“not saying they’re going to win the World Cup”), but momentum and belief are surging.

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Canada’s Edgy Draw and Host Nation Outlook

Segment: [10:40–13:07]

• Canada required a late equalizer from Karl Larin against Bosnia and Herzegovina.
• Art de Roche: "Looking at the team, especially in the first 20 minutes, I just thought they couldn't really grab control of the game… very hectic." ([11:19])
• The panel compare the experience and composure between USA and Canada, suggesting the USA “handled the occasion so much better” ([06:04]).
• Host nations’ draw-rated: USA tipped to progress furthest of the three.

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Deep Dive: Brazil's Quest for a Sixth World Cup

Segment: [14:23–26:15]

• Context:

  • The iconic footballing nation faces high but perhaps misplaced expectations, according to the panel.
  • Brazil opens against Morocco—a formidable opponent after their 2022 semi-final run.

• Squad & Selection Talking Points:

  • Neymar’s inclusion, despite injury, debated:
    • Art de Roche: "When you look at his Brazil career, 2016 Olympics was quite a big thing… he was a real driving force… I can understand why he’s been picked even with the injury doubts." ([15:58])
  • The average squad age (27) is slightly above recent winners—possibly a soft spot.

• Carlo Ancelotti’s Impact:

  • His short tenure is both asset and risk—renowned for managing big stars, bringing “cool, calm, collected” tournament nous ([21:59]).

  • Tim Spears: "He can only go with what he’s got… there’s definitely an imbalance to that squad which he hasn’t been able to adjust." ([17:35])

  • Brazil’s history post-2002 is less glorious—quarter-final glass ceiling and “mythology” contrasted with modern reality.

    Quote: "Whenever they come up…against one of the big European sort of five or six teams in the quarterfinals, that’s probably when they bow out." — Tim Spears ([19:48])

• Tactical Concerns:

  • Attack-heavy approach (sometimes as attacking as 4-2-4), possible vulnerability noted in transition and squad balance.

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Morocco’s New Status and Group C Intrigue

Segment: [24:32–26:51]

• Morocco, now “properly rated” after 2022 heroics, must shoulder new expectations.
• Art de Roche: "They are one of the continent's strongest teams… rather than being in the underrated side, they are, you know, properly rated." ([25:14])
• Star players flagged: Brahim Diaz, Hakimi, Masrawi, Bono—all capable of swinging games.
• Ayoub Bouaddi highlighted as a young player to watch.

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Scotland’s World Cup Return

Segment: [28:52–34:44]

• From Boston, Jordan Campbell reports a “hard-to-describe” surge in Scottish optimism and pride ([29:35]).
• Simulator pegs Scotland with a 70% chance to exit the group—scar tissue and past failures mean fans remain guarded.
• Scott McTominay now viewed as a “superstar… action man figure” able to change a game—vital after years relying on collective over individual stardom.
• Opening vs. Haiti seen as must-win: “Three points might actually be enough to finish third.” ([30:46])
• Tim Spears: Scotland’s experience at two recent Euros should help avoid previous tournament pitfalls.

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Haiti: Underdogs with Heart

Segment: [34:44–36:24]

• Haiti’s men’s team highlighted for their resilience, potential to “create moments” despite lack of infrastructure ([34:48]).
• Reference to the women’s team pushing England close at their World Cup debut—a sign of their infectious spirit and unpredictability.

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Player Spotlight: Nestory Irankunda (Australia)

Segment: [36:46–38:45]

• Teen talent at Watford (via Bayern & A-League), famed for free kicks and exuberant celebrations.
• Adam Leventhal: "He's the sort of player that will deliver a moment if he's given an opportunity at the World Cup… Loves a free kick, sort of knucklebally dipping. He's a fun player." ([37:56])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

Henry Bushnell:

"This US Team for so long was about potential… I think we just saw them come together. And now this team, there’s no telling how high this team can go." ([02:13])

Tim Spears:

"This is the America that we wanted – not just the team, but the whole occasion. The fans were so engaged. The atmosphere sounded amazing." ([04:11])

Art de Roche:

"Balogun's born in Brooklyn… grew up in London… he was always someone very highly rated in the Arsenal academy… the thing that’s always stood out with him is the variety of finishes, which obviously he was able to showcase in front of the world." ([07:18])

On Brazil’s aura:

"They haven’t hit those heights in so long… they’re going to look great… but when they come up against one of the big European teams, that’s probably when they bow out." — Tim Spears ([19:48])

Jordan Campbell on Scotland:

"Andy Robertson said… they have the trust of a nation now… this is now the new norm." ([30:46])

Quiz Moment:

"Who is the only player to have won the World Cup three times?" — Answer: Pele ([28:00]–[28:29])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:13] – Henry Bushnell’s US match report & optimism
• [04:11] – Reaction from studio on USA performance and atmosphere
• [07:18] – Art de Roche on Folarin Balogun’s development & impact
• [14:23] – Panel moves to Brazil preview
• [15:58] – Discussion: Neymar’s role and squad selection
• [19:39] – Brazil mythology vs. recent tournament reality
• [24:32] – Morocco’s rising reputation and group analysis
• [28:52] – Scotland preview, on-the-ground with Jordan Campbell
• [30:46] – Scottish hopes, history, and simulation odds
• [34:47] – Haiti’s participation and narrative
• [36:46] – Player focus: Nestory Irankunda (Australia)

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Conclusion

The episode captures the World Cup’s early drama and shifting narratives:

• The US team’s coming-of-age in front of a passionate home crowd—with tactical fluency, new stars, and a palpable sense of possibility.
• Canada’s nervy start and the nuances of host-nation pressure.
• Brazil’s eternal aura contending with hard realities: a loaded yet lopsided squad, and whether Carlo Ancelotti’s experience can triumph over time constraints and defensive imbalances.
• Morocco’s leap from outsider to overdog.
• Scotland’s nerve-wracking but hopeful return, and the romantic intrigue of Haiti’s underdog tale.
• Throughout: a showcase of emerging talent, fan culture, and the quirks that make the World Cup irresistible viewing.

The Athletic FC Podcast continues to blend exclusive reporting, sharp analysis, and a touch of wit—offering everything a football fan needs to understand (and feel) the pulse of the tournament.

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Transcript

[A]

The Athletic fc.

[B]

Hi there and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Adam Leventhal. So, what a start for the US smashing Paraguay 41 in their opener. Canada, meanwhile, needed a late Larryn Leveller in Toronto today on day three, we'll talk about Brazil's quest to win a sixth World cup and look ahead to Scotland's opener against Haiti. And joining me in the studio to do so is the athletics, Tim Spears. How are you, Tim?

[C]

Great, thanks, Adam. How are you?

[B]

Yeah, very good. Very good indeed. Did you watch the US game?

[C]

Yeah, I watched it this morning, actually. As in not. Not silly o' clock this morning, but like seven.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I didn't want to do what Art did yesterday. It sounded like a bit of an ordeal and, you know, you need to kind of get a routine in place, I think, for the coming weeks.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So the morning UK time is, unless we're working, of course, is gonna be sort of dead time for matches. So that's when I'm gonna catch up on the overnight football. So. But I wanted to watch it spoiler free the USA game. So I set the page on iplayer before I went to bed last night. So that's the thing I did before I went to sleep so that I could wake up and just press, click, press play and not know what had happened. That's great. I loved it. Watched it on 1.2 speed so that you could get here in time. So did a podcast.

[B]

That's really cool.

[C]

Yeah, it was good. Really good. Great game.

[B]

Yeah, a brilliant game. A brilliant game. And we'll get stuck into that arc d' Rocher is here as well. You didn't stay up either, did you?

[A]

No, I was way too tight after

[B]

your exploits watching South Korea and Czechia the night before. And you're looking great once again.

[A]

Thank you. I hope this gets a bit more approval than the Bosnia kit did yesterday, but no, I caught up on the States game when I got up on the highlights. But I did watch Bosnia versus Canada. It was very entertaining.

[B]

Yeah, it was. It was. And we'll talk about that as well. So the boys are here. Henry Bushnell was in Los Angeles for that US opener with Paraguay. Let's get his take to start off with.

[D]

What a night for the US Men's National Team. Just covered the US's 41 win over Paraguay in the World cup opener here at Sofi Stadium near Los Angeles. And it was almost a perfect night, save for one Paraguay goal and maybe a minor Christian Pulisic injury. That's probably going to Be fine. It was everything coming together for this U.S. national team at just the right time. It was Fuller and Baligan. It was the fans who, you know, for many years weren't really behind this team and now suddenly are. It was Mauricio Pochettino's system. It was Christian Pulisic playing well. It was even Gio Reina who, by the way, just told us that his wife is pregnant. And he was waiting for the perfect moment to announce it. And he decided that a goal in the World cup opener was that moment. And I think now for this US Team, we've really moved to a new era. This US Team for so long was about potential and there was talent, but some players were always injured or absent or they weren't quite gelling together. We kind of sensed it in the two weeks leading into this World cup and the friendlies, that they were coming together at just the right time. And I think we just saw them come together. And now this team, there's no telling how high this team can go. I'm not saying they're going to go win the World Cup. I'm not even going to say they're going to win two knockout games. We have to take one game at a time, of course, and maybe slow down. But you're seeing resale ticket prices already explode for the Australia game. The country is really going to get behind this team. Weston McKinney talked about how maybe the country will see now that, you know, soccer is not really a boring sport. It's actually pretty, pretty entertaining. And I think this is just going to be the start of a really special few weeks and maybe a month for this US team.

[B]

Brilliant. From Henry Bushnell that did you. He was so excited, wasn't it? I mean, that it's perfect for them because it ticked all the boxes. It had the big build up, you know, the great start, the great goals. Good, good for them. It's what they needed.

[C]

Yeah. And good news about the ticket prices for the Australia game going up as well. That's just what we need. No, no. It was such a pleasant surprise. Like, I think we were all a bit concerned. We all like to see the host nations do well. We're all a bit concerned that they were going to stink the place out, to be honest. You know, given their form, given doubts about the team. But, yeah, they were outstanding, to be honest, I was so impressed. And this is the America that we wanted, you know, not just the team, but the whole occasion. The fans were so engaged. The atmosphere sounded amazing. 70,000 full house the fireworks, the Star Spangled Banner, whatever, it all just, it was, it was a brilliant occasion. And you know, after sort of Qatar four years ago when it was sort of the opposite really, and the football sort of saved that tournament. But here, the three host nations, all great atmospheres, everyone's so engaged and that reflects around the world. That's what we want to see, you know. So yeah, I really, really enjoyed it.

[B]

Are they getting a little bit carried away? Are Paraguay any good?

[A]

I mean, for me you have to kind of ride the wave. So even it doesn't matter. Yeah, even if they are excited, they need to use that to get the momentum to go into that Australia game feeling like they are not favourites, to go on and win the whole thing, but just actually have that self belief, not just with the players, but in the stands, as Tim mentioned. And for me, what really came across is we know all these players are good players. You have Anthony Robinson, Premier League player, you have Adams, Premier League player. But what really came across was they all gelled. I thought that what I saw was a team that understood where to be at the right moments, who's going where. And it was just a really fluid kind of game, especially in that first half. It came across as. So, yeah, I think the excitement's warranted, I'd say just, yeah, use it in the right way.

[C]

Well, we've seen in the past with South Korea getting to semi finals, no way were they last four teams, Russia get to the quarterfinals, no way were they last 18, even France winning it in 98. They weren't the best team at that tournament, I don't think. But you know, we know that the sort of momentum from the host nation, unless you're Qatar, really sort of carries you through the tournament. And I think you could really tell from watching the Canada game and then watching the USA game about that sort of top level experience that the USA have got that we maybe sort of underestimated a little bit. Okay. Not lots of like Champions League winners in there, but players who are regulars in the Premier League, regulars in top European leagues because they handled the occasion so much better than Canada did. And yeah, just approached it. Despite the sort of all the noise and the big atmosphere, they just stuck to their game plan brilliantly.

[B]

We were talking yesterday on the episode about whether they have a global star, sensational Folarin Balagun

[E]

with the most convincing

[B]

of finishes, two brilliant goals, which was part of that, you know, that great start for them. And he's someone that you've sort of crossed paths with quite A lot having covered Arsenal and, you know, that's where he started. Just give us a bit more background for people who want to learn more about him.

[A]

Yeah, so Balogun's born in Brooklyn, so a New Yorker by birth, but grew up in London. So was with Arsenal's academy since he was in primary school. And actually in the academy he set quite a few goal scoring record. So I believe it was the most goals in an under 18 season in the Premier League. Under 18s. Premier League until he got beaten a couple of years ago. So he was always someone who was very highly rated in the Arsenal academy system. And as he was getting towards the kind of, you know, late teens, early 20s, there was a lot of interest in him, whether it be him coming into the first team or other ways Arsenal could use him. So when he was first looking for those, you know, senior minutes, he went on loan to France with room or Stade de Rom, I should say. And yeah, while he was on loan, I was lucky enough to interview him at his house, which was a really cool experience because those are, I think, the experiences. And I'm sure you guys are the same where you just realize football is a. Just normal people as well. Like, he was so laid back. Like I remember we were just sitting on his, you know, sofa, and he was almost like just laying down on his sofa, just chatting normally. And within that, he said at that point he hadn't even thought of playing abroad, which when you see what he's achieving now, seems kind of ridiculous. He's a regular at Monaco. Double figures for goals this season. And the thing that's always stood out with him is the variety of finishes, which obviously he was able to showcase in front of the world last night.

[C]

But not just him. There was a real supporting cast in this. That was what was so impressive. The combinations, the one touch play, Tillman, McKenney. Dess looked good as well, I thought. And obviously Pulisic. And they did drop a little bit when the sort of subs came on. And there's a slight vulnerability there that if Pulisic is injured and they may have to sort of carry him through the tournament. Also Richards at the back, who came in with with a big injury problem, he was by far the best defender. I thought you could say that without them, I think they would be. They would go down a level. But in general, they scored sort of different types of goals. Really fast, adventurous, and then what was it, 26 passes for the. For the fourth goal. So, yeah, of course, look, Paraguay weren't great. We have to say that. And USA will have far more tougher tests. But you just got to go on what you've seen so far. And it's the best performance we've seen from any team.

[B]

And it's that fourth goal just to put the cherry on the icing. It's the sort of cut through goal that a casual fan in the States would go, wow, that was something special. Even someone that was not necessarily ofe would go, that was an amazing technique.

[A]

Yeah. I think when we were talking yesterday about what a global star needs in terms of individuals to have that cut through, I think when you have an occasion like yesterday, but also a moment like that, as you say, the casuals then all stand up and pay attention. Really lovely goal. Reminded me of Ricardo Quaresma.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, yeah, I think when you're looking for a moment, I think yesterday definitely would have been that for a lot of kids as well in America who would have been watching that game.

[C]

Even Tom Cruise, if he's able to sort of crack a big smile, would have absolutely loved it, I'm sure. Watching on.

[B]

That's a good point. That is a good point. Right before the US Beat Paraguay, battered Paraguay. Paraguay, we watched Canada take on Bosnia and Herzegovina. Obviously you were supporting Bosnia and Herzegovina. Bosnia and Herzegovina, easy for me to say. And they needed Karl Lahren to come on and grab a draw for them. In terms of what we made of of Canada, are we. Have we sort of maybe adjusted our expectations of them or not?

[A]

I. Well, yesterday I wasn't really expecting too much, if I'm being honest.

[B]

Yeah, but that's just because you were a partisan supporter of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

[A]

Maybe. But if I'm being honest, looking at the team, especially in the first 20 minutes, I just thought they couldn't really grab control of the game. It was very hectic.

[B]

There was plenty of energy, though, wasn't there?

[A]

It just felt like almost a knockout game already. The energy was there, but it just didn't seem like anyone could, you know, get their foot on the ball and just settle things down. When you look at players who are in the Bosnia squad, I know I mentioned Dzeco who didn't play yesterday, but Kalasny as well, seasoned guy across Europe in Germany, England and Italy now as well.

[B]

He's still looking very sturdy, very.

[A]

And a very good goal line clearance. Amazing as well. So, yeah, I wasn't looking at, you know, Bosnia's pushovers and I don't think anyone should have been.

[B]

Quick one on having now seen the three host nations, who's going furthest. It's tough because, yeah, I know it's difficult to judge, but I need. That's just why it's a difficult question.

[C]

But like, incredibly, they've all been handed really good draws and really good opening games. Right. So I think we have to judge the opposition not being great. But yeah, I'd be a bit worried for Canada. I think it's good that they've got Qatar next. I think if they had Switzerland next and going into against a much better team, you'd say they'd be really struggling. But yeah, they look really nervous to me and like, you know, Jesse Marsh clearly wants them in his sort of showman style. He's like, embrace the pressure. Embrace this huge occasion. We have to stand up and face it full on. It's like big retirement. But they just don't look there to me, you know, and they're really sort of naive defensively. So anyway, in answer to your question, I think probably usa, I think they really took the game by the scruff of the neck more than Mexico did

[A]

you.

[B]

Just a reminder for all of you watching, listening as well. All of the World cup coverage on the Athletic app is free for you to read, so do get stuck into it. The action now obviously fully underway. You can check out the World cup tracker, which includes all the current standings, the forecast, the brackets, the schedule. It's got detailed tactical analysis on there as well. Plenty of news stories away from the pitch too. Dan Sheldon dropped a big story regarding Thomas Partey being denied entry to Canada for Ghana's opener with Panama on Wednesday. There obviously in England's group. Also, he took us inside England's secret World cup friendly as well. So you can check out those two articles and much, much more on the Athletic. Let's now get stuck in to Brazil because obviously Art has come dressed properly for the occasion. He's sort of aligned with Brazil.

[C]

Do you know what? I'm wearing a World Cup. I heard your chat yesterday about wearing a World cup top, so I thought I would wear a T shirt. With England's last player to play a World cup from the second tier of English football, Steve Ball, that's key.

[B]

And to sort of also celebrate the fact that Wolves are now back in the second tier of England.

[C]

Even on a World cup podcast, you managed to get that in.

[B]

Of course I will.

[C]

Thanks.

[B]

Of course I will. Let's talk about Brazil. Five time winners, of course. Jack Lang has been writing in our Language of Soccer series that they're chasing the sixth, Carlo Ancelotti's side. They kick off with a great match up against Morocco, who made the 2022 semi finals. That's in group C. Later on the later, later kickoff here in the uk, also in Scotland's group, of course. The Brazilian fans obviously will. Will bring the samba vibes to the tournament. Do we feel that the expectation on them is unavoidable, but also maybe this time a little bit misplaced?

[A]

Yeah. For me, even though I'm rocking the shirt, I don't have very high expectations for them. And that's mainly down to the makeup of the squad in terms of age. I think their average age is 27. But you've got players like Neymar.

[B]

Yeah, let's get stuck into the Neymar thing. Like, obviously, it was a controversial pick. A lot of Chelsea fans would have been going, well, hang on a minute. Why is Neymar getting in and Joao Pedro's not getting in. He's also now injured for the first game. Carlo Ancelotti, is he. Has he dropped one a little bit here? Or not. Or not.

[C]

It's a bit of a weird one, isn't it?

[B]

It feels weird, doesn't it?

[C]

He's not. If he's not going to play, he's not exactly a Jordan Henderson type.

[B]

No.

[C]

Do you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And there'll be a.

[B]

Well, is he not?

[C]

To be fair, I've never met him.

[B]

You've never spent time with him in a Brazil camp. He might just be all fun.

[C]

He's never been lying down on his sofa like Baligan did.

[A]

No, to be fair, I mean, when you look at his Brazil career, the 2016 Olympics was quite a big thing. Obviously he was playing, so that makes a big difference. But from what I can remember, a lot of people speak about how he was a real driving force in that Brazil team to win that Olympics. It was obviously a home tournament as well. So I think I can understand why he's been picked even with the injury doubts whether it's, you know, having someone who the players respect so much around the team and given a little bit of a lift in that sense. And also maybe having a little less of kind of antagonism towards Carlo Ancelotti himself when it comes to having to answer questions about why he's, you know, not picked one of the most loved players in the country. But my thing is, when it comes to the average ages, looking at the last four World cup winners, so Argentina in 2022, their average age was 27. France in 2018, they were 25.6. Germany were 26.3 in 2014 and Spain in 2010 were 25.9. So those average ages are all kind of in a sweet spot, a two year sweet spot in the mid-20s. And I just feel like Brazil's balance is a bit too far the other side.

[B]

So you think because it's 27 point

[A]

what, so between 25 and 27, basically

[B]

they're not that far off then, are they?

[A]

But I just feel like there's too much there.

[B]

Okay. Do you agree?

[C]

Well, I guess it depends. It depends on how many of those players are going to start really. They've played a bit of a 4, 24 at times under Enceladus because the squad is so, yeah, top, heavy, stacked and I think against Panama in one of their warm up games, it was 4, 2, 4 with Casimiro. Bruno Gimaraes is in the middle and we've seen at Man United that Casimiro when play is stretched and he's got a big, he's no Kante, you know. Yeah, exactly. So that, that would definitely concern me. But I think Ancelotti can only go with what he's got and there's definitely an imbalance to that squad which he hasn't been able to adjust. That was the first thing he said I think when he, when he was appointed. They just lost 41 to Argentina and he said there's no balance, there's. There's all this talent but there's no balance in the team at all. But he's, he's only had a few games. I think he's had four competitive matches at the end of qualifying cinching that. I think he signed the contract to 2030. So he sees it's more of a long term thing. Maybe he doesn't see this as being I can win this World cup and then move on to something else. He says it might move more of a long term project. But the name I think, yeah, is, is, is going to be a big story. It's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna follow Ancelotti around the tournament. You know, he's the by, by far the, still the biggest name in this Brazil squad. He's been the main man at the last sort of three tournaments for them. So it's a really interesting dynamic that he's now sort of like, I don't know, fourth choice, fifth choice forward. But the magic is still there. You know, he lost it for a couple years when everyone thought his career was done in Saudi, when he barely played a game there for like two years. But going back to Santos last year has reinvigorated him in a way. He's got his fitness levels back up and he's. He can still win a match. Of course he can. He just, just don't expect him to start very often, do.

[B]

We just think of Brazil as the old school Brazil and we ignore the, the recent history, the fact that they've not been further than the quarterfinals since 2002. So that's 24 years with maths and they've sort of fizzled out, let's say to a certain, to a certain extent. Obviously included within that was. Was finishing fourth in 2014 at home, which was obviously a big, A big dis. Came with a big disappointment. Are we being a bit sort of rose tinted about Brazil?

[C]

Yeah, they have, they have a bit of a mythology about them certainly for me, like, you know, you, you grow up.

[B]

I should really ask the guy in the retro show.

[C]

No, but the World cup doesn't start until Brazil have played, like for sure. Yeah, they have this mythology about the 1970. Basically invented modern football. You know, Pele the best player ever. You know, you're told when you're sort of growing up, Brazil won the first World cup that I watched in 94, you know, with Babetto and Romario and everything. So. Yeah, but they haven't hit those heights in so long whenever they come up and I expect this to probably happen at this tournament. They're going to look great, they're going to thrash a couple of teams, they're going to score some amazing goals, they're going to be must watch team. But when they come up against one of the big European sort of five or six teams in the quarterfinals, that's probably when they bow out.

[A]

Yeah, I, I'm on similar lines because when you look at, for me, my first World cup is 2006. So.

[C]

Sorry.

[A]

It's better than 2010. Like Keris was the other day.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

When I think of Brazil at World cup, it's. It's all about moments really. It's not, it's not about, you know, getting deep into the tournament. It's Micon in South Africa with that weird goal from the angle. It's the 71 against Germany. Unfortunately, Neymar, even when we think about the last World cup and his unbelievable individual goal against Croatia, they ended up losing that game on penalties. So for me, they're not a nation that I look at as real contenders. I look at them as a nation that everyone must respect, know about because of their history and individual Players like this shirt is Kaka on the back because he's one of my favorite players. But as a group, as a collective, I haven't taken them seriously for a while. Especially when you look at the center forwards they take to tournaments. I mean, Fred going to 2014, that's something that sticks out in my mind. And I don't think they've really rectified that area of the pitch either.

[C]

I think it's very similar to the last sort of World Cups with Brazil, but the difference potentially is Ancelotti, which is such a, you know, such an unexpected move on. Mooted for, for a couple of years, but still an unexpected move to see him there. We know that from his work with Real Madrid. He can handle big name players and set a team up for a match, but it's just whether he's had enough time with the group. I think that would be the concern for me.

[B]

Yeah, I guess it just, you know, we've heard from Alison who's been speaking about Ancelotti and saying how sort of cool, calm and collected he is. The atmosphere's been transformed, he said. Commanding presence, sense of calm. So in a tournament situation, I suppose when there is so much noise, quite rightly around the Brazil side, that you've got someone on the touchline that can just take the sting out of it and say, no, do this, don't do that, and keep it quite sort of, keep it simple, stupid sort of thing. I mean, I suppose it is a game changing element that could push them further forward.

[A]

And when you look at his career in management, he's the best Champions League manager. I mean, when you're looking at that competition and how he got not just Real Madrid but AC Milan earlier on to get to finals, win finals and create that environment that allows players to feel free, I think you're probably looking at the perfect marriage in terms of a manager and a nation and what each other needs. So that's the big thing for them going into this World cup, having that manager that can enable them to be themselves.

[B]

It's been interesting going through the comments, as always on the episode. Bradley was asking about how Brazil are going to maintain possession and create chances against a very good Moroccan side who we will get stuck into in a minute. Do you see Brazil being able to counter Morocco? Do you think that they've got the tools in their locker to be able to win this game first and foremost?

[C]

Oh, I mean, they've got about five match winners in the team, you know, Cunha Vinicius, Junior, Rafinha alone can win any game on their own. It's going to be. It's one of the. One of the best opening round fixtures, I think, in terms of intrigue and, yeah, I think there's potential for Brazil to go out and win this game very comfortably and still get very excited about them, but I don't think they've got the tools in their squad to win a World Cup. We've seen with history tells us that, you know, the best attacking flair team with all the star players doesn't necessarily win the World Cup. It's got to be usually the team with the best defence that can get through the knockouts and get through a tough game against Croatia and squeak through, you know, on penalties or whatever, which Brazil have been unable to do in the past. So, yeah, I expect them to be great fun to watch and to score some amazing goals, but there's just definitely a weakness there, which I'm not sure Ancelotti will have had time to fix in time for the knockout stages.

[B]

And in terms of where Morocco are in all of this, obviously by reaching the semi finals in 2022, they've almost got now an expectation to go deep. And is it fair to be expecting them to sort of match that again?

[A]

Yeah, I saw Hakimi was speaking before the game saying that people call Morocco the Brazil of Africa. I don't think anyone would go that far, but I do understand where he's coming from in terms of them, you know, going that far in 2022. I know all the controversy about the AFCON final, but they were able to reach that final. So they are one of the continent's strongest teams, and you're kind of getting to that point where rather than being in the underrated side, they are, you know, properly rated. I think that's the stage we're getting to.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What do you reckon, Tim?

[C]

Yeah, it's a tough one. You know, you don't really get African nations coming into tournaments like this with weighty expectations on their shoulders like Morocco do have, but they have to because. Yes, semi finals, World Cup. Did they win afcon? We don't know, but they were in the final. They're in, what, eighth in the FIFA rankings, you know, and they've got still a pretty sort of familiar team. They have a bit of turmoil coming into it, changing their manager quite late, but they did that last time. He's got to semis, so. Yeah, and again, they've got star players who can win games of their own, like Brahim Diaz, who wasn't at the last World cup, of course, but now is part of Morocco's team and was player of the tournament Afcon, I think if they can get him, you know, in full flow and Hakimi and Masrawi and, you know, still got Bono in goal, is very good. They've got a very, very good team. I definitely expect them to progress through the group and get. And get to a decent point in the knockout stages.

[A]

Yeah. I'm actually just on Morocco quite interested to see how much football Ayub Boudi gets, because he's been someone that a lot of people have been really excited about at Lille for the past season or so, because I remember in the 2022 World Cup Eunhae, he really impressed in midfield, I believe. Got a move afterwards. So he's. Boadi is someone who is obviously very highly rated and people are looking at not just for the World cup, but for transfer stuff this summer as well. So he's one that I'd probably keep an eye on in this game or throughout the group stages.

[B]

Yeah. And Morocco, I mean, they are a production line at the moment and they've got that sort of feeling of trying to emulate the French success of the past and sort of that Made in Morocco brand that they're trying to push, obviously has worked wonders for them. And, yeah, it's gonna be fascinating to see how they do. It's a big game to get excited about equally. It's now time to get really excited because it is quiz time. Are we ready? Yeah. You didn't know what to do yet.

[C]

I wasn't expecting that. Yeah.

[B]

Wow. Okay, so here we go. This is our do youo Know daily quiz, which we're playing throughout the tournament. And just to warn you, he really effing loves quizzes. He absolutely loves them.

[A]

After we did yesterday's quiz, I was on another podcast that had quiz, and I won that one as well.

[B]

He's in form. Okay, here we go. So our do you know? Quiz for day three of the tournament, it's linked to the number three who? And it's fingers on buzzers.

[C]

Okay, where are the buzzers?

[B]

The buzzers are saying your name.

[C]

Okay, cool.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. Who is the only player to have won the World cup three times?

[A]

Oh,

[C]

Garrincha.

[B]

No, that's not your name. Your name's Tim.

[C]

That's my middle name.

[B]

Imagine Garincha is a good answer, but it's not correct.

[C]

Oh, it's Tim. It's Pele.

[A]

It is.

[C]

Pele said Garrincha.

[B]

Fair. I know.

[C]

I was like, someone from.

[A]

I was gonna go with more of a hit story. Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah. So, yes, of course. He's won it three times. He won it three times. 58, 62 and 70. So well done.

[C]

Wearing the Brazil top.

[A]

I know I need to hide off creepers.

[B]

I don't know what to say.

[A]

I was thinking it would be, like, more niche, but no. Yeah, no.

[B]

Sometimes we're gonna flip between, you know, Enna Valencia and Pele on this. On this show. Now it is time to focus our attention on Scotland. They take on Haiti in Boston for their first World cup match since their last entry back in 1998. They are the other two teams in Brazil and Morocco's group, so they want to get points on board from the start, obviously. Let's get the take of the athletics. Jordan Campbell, who is in Boston embedded with the Tartan army, soaking up the atmosphere. Just tell us how the journey has been so far.

[E]

Well, if you're asking me what the mood's like, you can probably see from the background that I'm at a very Scottish place in Boston right now. We're at the Royale, where there's a fundraising night for street soccer Scotland. We've got A Listers, B Lifters, C Listers, Jared Butler, Susan Boyle, Martin Compson from Line of Duty. We've got so many famous Scots who have come over here. Darren Fletcher's here as well, whose son's at the tournament. And you're just seeing so many people congregate to raise money for a good charity. But also, the. The excitement here is. Is hard to describe after 28 years away from the World Cup. So, yeah, they're talking about tens and tens of thousands being here tomorrow for the game against Haiti. Some are in New York, some are in Providence and are traveling through to Boston. But, yeah, slowly but surely, I think Scotland are taking over Boston. And, yeah, it's going to be a very busy 24 hours before the game, I think so.

[B]

Scotland have made eight World Cups, but they've never got past the group stage and they've never won more than a single game. And they obviously have a tough group. But the Athletics World cup simulator, which is worth everyone checking out, has given them a 70% chance of progressing to the round of 32. Are you equally as optimistic, Jordan?

[E]

Yeah, well, simulators are all well and good, but I don't think simulators can account for just how much scar tissue Scotland fans carry when they're playing against a team that are 83rd in the world, I think so. Someone they should beat. But those games are always the scariest ones for Scotland, given, you know, Lithuania, Georgia, Liechtenstein, we've had so many over the years, Kazakhstan, that have really sort of dented the nation's confidence. But Andy Robertson said something today which I think struck a chord and that is that they have the trust of a nation now. This is the third tournament out of four that they've qualified for. This is now the new norm. And I think, you know, going out in this game against Haiti, in the opening game, you couldn't have asked for a better, a better chance to qualify. Three points might actually be enough to finish third. So, yeah, I think if they can do the job, which they should, they can go into the Morocco game and the Brazil game and really attack it with the confidence of having the first one in over 20 odd years. So, yeah, it's so, so important in Scotland do the job.

[B]

And obviously someone going into the tournament with great confidence is Scott McTominay. Obviously everyone's still talking about his overhead kick against Denmark. The definition of a big game player for Scotland. Is he key to success in the tournament?

[E]

Yeah, I mean, it's beyond doubt now that Scott McTominay is the main man. I think everyone, the last 24 hours when he's had that stomach bug has been one regular update. Sony. His toilet visit switches. It's quite an unusual position for, for football fans to be in, but that's how important he is. He is the. He is the superstar in Serie A. He's the best player in the league. He's transformed into this superstar figure which Scotland never had before. People used to talk about Gareth Bale at Wales and that sort of action man figure, that guy that could just transform a game in a minute being what Scotland lacked. And I think they've got that now. Ask Steve cog about that today, about whether he's sort of leaned into that Persona. He played it down saying they need 26 superstars. But I think even Andy Robertson, Liverpool Champions League winner, Premier League winner, he said that he knows that for the last two years he's been the main man, having joined the Guinness, where the goals come from on this team. And I think to have that guy that people look to and think he could change the game in an instant is a real nice thing for Scotland to have, having relied on work ethic and team ethic for so long. Yeah. As nice as the video that you've done this morning with the train spot and themed, themed runs through Naples city centre. You know, this is a Suave superstar that Scotland have in the books.

[B]

Yeah. Look, whatever happens with Scotland, it's going to be entertaining. And they've got the potential to create some moments, haven't they?

[C]

Yeah. I think it's really good for them that they've got these experience of the two Euros campaigns going into this, because we saw a bit of naivety from them at those tournaments, I think. And they. I think Steve Clark admitted, you know, they let themselves down certainly in the last Euros. They absolutely tanked. Remember, they got. They got done by Germany in the first game. And as Steve Clark said yesterday, that really set the tone for the rest of the tournament this time and this time around, it. If they'd had Brazil first and lost that quite heavily, it might have had the same impact. But having Haiti and a game to really attack and go to win, I think is ideal for them. And, you know, it's not just Scott McTominay and John McGinn. I don't think you've got Lon Shanklin, who's had a great season with Hearts and sort of emerging as a. As a real match winner. Ben Gannon Doak, who Scotland fans have been excited about for a few years. I know he's had a really tough season with injury at Bournemouth, but if he's fit on his day, another match winner. So, yeah, they also seem really relaxed. Steve Clark was, like, cracking jokes in his press conference yesterday, and a couple of the journalists were there were like, this is not the Steve Clark that we know, and he wants to take the pressure off. I think they've probably put too much pressure on themselves at previous tournaments. It's the exact opposite to Jesse Marsh. He's like, bring it on. Yeah, Steve Clark's the opposite. No, no, no. Let's just take the pressure off. Obviously, there is pressure on this first game, particularly as Haiti, but I think. I think you'd back them to win that match.

[B]

You know what? I want Haiti to win.

[A]

Just.

[C]

Sorry.

[B]

I actually want Haiti to win because I did some work on Haiti in a documentary that I did, the World cup and War, if you want to check it out. And, yeah, they have been through the mill, Haiti as a nation, and it's their first World cup since 1974. Some of their citizens in the United States as well are sort of under the pump as well. So I hope for them that they have a good showing and have their own moment as well.

[A]

I don't know how kind of transferable this would be, but I remember watching the 2023 Women's World Cup. And again, that was Haiti's first women's World cup appearance and their first group game was against England. Obviously, everyone in England, with the lionesses coming off the back of their 20, 22 Euros win, was thinking that this would probably be just an easy game. England only won 1 nil and Haiti put a really good account of themselves. There was an energy with them that made them feel like something was possible, even though they obviously were nowhere near the quality of England with the infrastructure and everything like that that's gone into the two teams respectively. So I do think there is something to be said for a team who have that kind of innate quality within themselves to want to show people what they're about. And, yeah, I'm really interested to see how Haiti go about it because of the way that their women were able to perform in that World cup because it was completely unexpected. And you know when sometimes in a World cup you just fall in love with a team, that's kind of what happened that day. Hopefully, like you said, their men's team can do similar in the next week or so.

[B]

It's a contrary take, but it's bold from you.

[C]

You know, English guy sat in the studio in London. I want Haiti to be in Scotland. Wow.

[B]

But no, yeah, look, it's not. Whatever it is, I'm going for Haiti. I don't care. Right, let's wrap up with our latest edition of the Stars of Soccer showcase. Did you do any work on the Stars of Soccer?

[C]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

You did?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which ones did you do? I just. I've just been checking in with people. Can you remember which ones?

[C]

Harry Kane, Nuna Mendes and a few Uzbek guys. Because they're my, you know, they're my boys.

[B]

Oh, yes. Tim Spears of Tashkent.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So every day we're highlighting a player from our 200 strong. Were you impressed that I knew the capital of. Yeah. Okay. 200 strong list of players to look out for in the tournament. It's a really nice piece of work from the Athletic. So do check it out. And today is the turn of Australia, Watford's Nestery Iran Kunda, who is going to be facing Turkey in the final game of day three. And obviously, as I'm a Watford fan, I can bring you some really detailed insight on this guy. Right, Teen sensation from the A League, played for Adelaide United, then went to Boston, Bayern Munich for a decent chunk of money, around 4 million euros in 2023. And then Watford signed him at the start of last season. 4 goals, 5 assists. Wasn't sensational, but he is the sort of player that will deliver a moment if he's given an opportunity at the World Cup.

[A]

He loves a free kick.

[B]

Loves a free kick, loves a free kick. Sort of knucklebally dipping. He's a fun player. Low centre of gravity. Quick, good on the break. The one thing I don't like about him is he's one of those guys that is a propsman when he celebrates and he also celebrates by doing a Michael Jackson celebration, which is questionable in itself. However, he's a lot of fun and yeah, I mean, obviously you're a fan of people taking things from the, from the crowd and celebrating with your, with your Wolves and your eyes see it in your eyes.

[C]

He's like, oh, I'm gonna bring this up.

[A]

I can see it.

[B]

Well, you know, but anyway, five goals in 15 appearances for Australia. A lot of fun. I do hope you enjoy watching him in that.

[C]

You added no context to that. The listeners weren't ever. Because people won't remember the 2018 or 19 FA cup semi final between Wolves and Watford instantly.

[B]

What did Raul Jimenez do?

[C]

So Wolves went 2 nil up against Watford and he put a Sin Cara wrestling mask on to celebrate his amazing goal. And then Watford obviously ended up winning. 3, 2.

[A]

Yeah, de la Faye scored that.

[B]

He did. He did. That was the memorable moment from that, from that FA cup final. And everyone, everyone forgot what happened in the, in the final. You know, 115 charges and all that. We never know what's going to happen in terms of trophies being appointed to the right teams down the line. That's beaten us. Time has beaten us. Many thanks to Tim. Good to see you as always, Art. Thank you very much as always, as well to Henry, to Jordan on the ground at the World Cup. Remember, you can watch or listen to us wherever you get your podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to the channel. Keep your comments coming in because we do read them and we try and chuck them in along the way. And stay across the athletic app for our World cup coverage. Free to read on the app for the entire tournament, so do get stuck into it and enjoy the experience. Tim and I are going to be back on the show on Monday. We will catch you then. Take it easy.