Was the USA's World Cup a success or failure?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic FC – Was the USA's World Cup a Success or Failure?

Release Date: July 7, 2026
Hosts: Emma Paton, Mark Critchley, Jay Harris
Contributors: Henry Bushnell, Paul Taylor, Reuben Pinder

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Episode Overview

This episode dives headfirst into the U.S. Men's National Team's (USMNT) journey at the 2026 World Cup, dissecting whether their run as host nation constitutes a success, failure, or something in between. Beyond the U.S., the panel addresses Portugal’s underwhelming exit and managerial news in the Premier League. The conversation is candid, analytical, and rich in behind-the-scenes reporting.

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Key Discussion Points & Timestamps

1. Opening Thoughts & US World Cup Reflection

[02:25 – 06:00]

• Emma Paton welcomes Mark Critchley (“Critch”) and Jay Harris, who had just returned from the U.S., giving firsthand insights into the fan experience.
• Jay Harris describes the World Cup “from the locals’ perspective” and the palpable rise in American football fandom—even among casuals.
  • “Just to see some people who are probably not normally the biggest football fans...now just ingrained in my brain...” (Jay Harris, 02:48)
• The panel reflects on the “controversy-filled build-up” and the US’s 4-1 defeat to Belgium. They question if anything has changed for the U.S. or if this is just “the same old story.”

2. On-the-Ground Report: Henry Bushnell in Seattle

[04:02 – 05:53]

• Henry Bushnell paints a somber picture after the USMNT’s elimination in Seattle:
  • “It didn't just peter out, it fizzled, thudded to the floor and it's gone. The World cup is over for this usmnt.” (Henry Bushnell, 04:02)
• Players, especially Gio Reyna, expressed genuine shock at the loss, feeling they “would be going back to Los Angeles for a quarterfinal.”
• He lists recurring issues: not being “good enough” in crucial games, fundamental shortcomings that echo U.S. performances in 2010, 2014, and 2022.
• Raises existential questions: Has progress actually been made? Are we overestimating US talent?
  • “Despite all the hope and momentum... it’s the same old result.” (Henry Bushnell, 04:02)

3. Post-Mortem: Success, Failure, or Just Par?

[06:34 – 10:10]

• Mark Critchley:
  • USMNT hit expectations (got out of the groups, won a knockout), but “anything more than just par” is hard to argue given the resources and home advantage.
  • “If we put 1930...to one side, the best is quarterfinals in 2002...they’ve fallen short of that despite being hosts...Despite all those advantages, they've fallen short.” (Mark Critchley, 06:36)
• Jay Harris:
  • U.S. fans were “carried away,” expecting a quarters run. The quality gap, especially at goalkeeper and central defense, was glaring.
  • Spotlights Malik Tillman as “by a distance [the] best player this entire tournament,” yet laments that he was left isolated. Criticizes the lack of quality and organization in attack.
  • Ends with: “I think now the balloon has been well and truly burst.” (Jay Harris, 10:10)

4. The Balogun Controversy & Impact of Outside Noise

[10:10 – 12:52]

• The team discusses how controversy—including Donald Trump’s phone call to FIFA President Gianni Infantino—over Folarin Balogun’s eligibility hung over the match.
  • Mark Critchley: “The game was...completely affected by it...it was within that context in which all the events played out.” (Mark Critchley, 10:33)
  • Belgium reportedly used the saga as fuel, with players referencing it post-match.
  • “You can't really separate the context...with the game itself. It's just...a scandal, it's outrageous...a real sour taste.” (Mark Critchley, 11:53)

5. What Went Wrong for the US On the Pitch

[12:52 – 15:26]

• Belgium’s unexpectedly strong performance: without stars like De Bruyne and Doku, they outclassed the U.S.
• USMNT, in contrast, could not threaten:
  • Defensive frailties exposed (especially 38-year-old Tim Ream).
  • Balogun neutralized; over-reliance on Tillman.
  • Psychological blow of conceding right after scoring (Tillman's free kick)—“too much of a psychological blow to come back from that.” (Jay Harris, 13:02)
• Belgium adapted well after losing Onana to injury.

6. US Player Development: A Grim Reflection

[15:00 – 17:27]

• Mark Critchley:
  • Highlights that Balogun and Tillman weren’t even U.S.-developed, raising concern about talent pipelines.
  • “It's a nation of nearly 350 million people...If we're talking about that level of country and that level of interest...getting to the round of 16...is about par.” (Mark Critchley, 15:26)
  • Football's relatively late start in America and the need for more grassroots infrastructure are outlined.

7. The Pochettino Question: What Now?

[17:27 – 19:55]

• Pochettino avoided discussing his future post-match.
• Jay Harris:
  • Suspects Pochettino will leave for a club role: “You’d have to be really committed...for another four years...Does Pochettino have the desire or heart...to stay with the program?...Probably not.” (Jay Harris, 17:38)
• Mark Critchley:
  • Notes the “marriage of convenience,” suggesting the current job is not fitting his stature, and a return to European club football is likely.
• Acknowledgment that individual errors, not just coaching, cost the U.S.

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Notable Quotes

• “It fizzled, thudded to the floor and it’s gone...it’s the same old result.”
  – Henry Bushnell [04:02]

• “Success would only really count if you are matching your best performance or at least exceeding that...despite all those advantages, they've fallen short.”
  – Mark Critchley [06:36]

• “They definitely got a little bit carried away...I think they'll perceive it as a failure, that this should have been an opportunity.”
  – Jay Harris [08:25]

• “I think the game was...completely affected by it...a real sour taste to what...a US team that certainly outside the US had, I wouldn't say won a lot of people over, but people have been impressed by—now, you're not that sorry to see the back of them.”
  – Mark Critchley [10:33]

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8. Portugal’s Elimination and Ronaldo’s Legacy

[26:33 – 34:31]

• Reuben Pinder recounts Portugal’s exit: Ronaldo seemed “detached,” with the team playing around him.
• Mark Critchley and Jay Harris agree Portugal dramatically underachieved over the past decade, in no small part due to “service to Ronaldo.”
  • “When we're talking about Ronaldo, we're not talking about Fernandes... Silva... Neves... Vitinha...it becomes stifling.” (Mark Critchley, 32:38)
• Ronaldo’s post-match self-praise comes off as “very self serving” and “performative,” with little reflection on team shortcomings.
  • “The team is always in service to Cristiano Ronaldo...that's basically because of the Aurum power that Ronaldo carries. And it just means that...you've gone out yet again.” (Jay Harris, 30:50)

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9. Other Major Topics

– Best Player Never to Win a World Cup

[23:06 – 26:33]

• Lively discussion and listener responses:
  • Consensus: Johan Cruyff “is the right answer” due to his lasting influence on football (Mark Critchley, Jay Harris).
  • Others considered: Ronaldo, Platini, Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Gareth Bale.

– Premier League News: Oliver Glasner to Forest

[40:41 – 48:00]

• Paul Taylor explains Vitor Pereira’s surprise sacking from Forest; “Ambition is the key word here for Forest.”
• Glasner’s appointment: The fit suits Forest’s counter-attacking strength, but both Jay Harris and Critchley foresee potential clashes with owner Marinakis, given past friction at other clubs.

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Memorable Moments

• Belgium players doing a “Trump YMCA dance” in celebration, referencing the controversy (Mark Critchley, 10:33).
• Malik Tillman’s solo efforts being praised as standout USA performances, while his teammates could not keep up physically or technically (Jay Harris, 08:25).
• The panel’s humor and candor about U.S. soccer culture, grassroots issues, and resources—"not letting heavily pregnant women on a plane is not a repeatable way of talent development..." (Mark Critchley, 15:26).

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Conclusion

This episode concludes that the U.S. World Cup run was not a disaster but was tinged with disappointment due to the external noise, controversy, and ultimate failure to progress beyond historic benchmarks. The mood is reflective, questioning whether U.S. soccer has truly advanced despite home advantage and heavy investment. Elsewhere, the Ronaldo-centric approach continues to haunt Portugal, and big managerial changes in England spark debate about football’s ever-changing terrain.

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For further reading and all World Cup features, listeners are reminded to visit The Athletic app.

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Episode’s major US World Cup discussion spans:
[02:25 – 19:55]
Portugal/Ronaldo segment:
[26:33 – 34:31]
Premier League managerial news:
[40:41 – 48:00]

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Summary curated to reflect panel tone and viewpoints for listeners seeking an insider’s recap without the full listen.

Transcript

[Hayden]

Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.

[Stephen]

And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy.

[Hayden]

And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.

[Stephen]

That's right.

[Mark Critchley]

Hey hey.

[Stephen]

So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.

[Hayden]

And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler Al he'll be wrong.

[Stephen]

Newsflash, I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday and you can find Fantasy Fan Fellows wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of the Athletic FC is sponsored by boss, businesswear provider for the US Men's National Soccer Team. Long before kickoff, the performance has already begun. For the players, the crest is not simply worn, it's earned. Boss understands what it takes to build something worthy of a crest. Constant refinement, precision in every stitch. And as the USMNT steps into the spotlight on home soil, BOSS is outfitting those who wear the badge, empowering them to step forward with confidence, express their individuality and be their own Boss in relaxed, lightweight and breathable tailoring from Boss Performance and soccer fans, BOSS has you covered too. Whether you want to look and feel as sharp as your heroes in Boss performance or show your pride from the stands in jerseys, polos and jackets in national colors and badges, own the moment with confidence. Discover the BOSS Performance collection as worn by the US Men's National Soccer team and the fan capsule of jerseys, polos and jackets in national colors. Wear your passion your way and be your own [e-mail] or at your nearest boss store. Marketers, no matter what pitch you play on, a big win feels the same electric it's that moment when you read the play before the trend even starts. Beat the clock on a campaign with a little help from AI and connect with customers in real time like you've trained for it your whole career. That's contentful. World class. Digital experiences built fast, built beautifully, create and launch personalized content in an instant across every channel your customers are watching. No chaos, no limits, just open field. Take your [e-mail].

[Hayden]

The Athletic FC

[Emma Peyton]

hi there and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Emma Peyton. After a controversy field build up, the USA are beaten by Belgium. Spain left it late to see off Cristiano Ronaldo in Portugal. And just why is Oliver Glasner going to Nottingham Forest? Well, here with me in the studio we have the Athletics, Mark Critchley and Jay Harris is back. Tell us all about Chi Town. How was it?

[Jay Harris]

Yeah, it was really good. And to be honest, one of my favorite things about the two weeks I was out there was watching the Mexico games, watching the US games with some of the locals and just experiencing the World cup from their perspective, particularly the US fans. Just to see some people who are probably not normally the biggest football fans or soccer fans is now just ingrained in my brain and just seeing how they viewed the World cup and how they experienced it was quite a cool experience.

[Emma Peyton]

You came back at the right time. You left the tournament when they did. Yeah.

[Jay Harris]

The party is well and truly over now.

[Emma Peyton]

Are you feeling all right, though? You jet lagged a tiny bit.

[Jay Harris]

Jet lag. But you know, I get. I'll get myself back up. It's the World cup, you know, being

[Emma Peyton]

here in our studio. We've been holding it down, haven't we, Cridge?

[Mark Critchley]

Yeah.

[Emma Peyton]

I mean, you have, yeah.

[Mark Critchley]

Me personally, yeah. But Jay's on World cup time still and it's the World cup, so that makes sense.

[Emma Peyton]

Yeah, that works, actually. Right, let's get to the action then. Much of the build up to USA Belgium was of course dominated by the availability of following Baligan, following Donald Trump's phone call to Gianni Infantino. But post match, or the headlines center around the USA's elimination from the tournament after falling to a 41 defeat, we're going to get into all of that in the studio very shortly. But first, here's the athletics. Henry Bushnell, who was in Seattle for

[Henry Bushnell]

about a month, this U.S. men's National Team built so much hope and hype and expectation and enthusiasm around the country. And over 90 minutes here at Lumen Field, it just totally fizzled out. It didn't just peter out, it fizzled, thudded to the floor and it's gone. And the World cup is over for this usmnt. The players were kind of shocked in the mixed zone just now. Gio Reyna said. You know, we all felt that we were going to be going back to Los Angeles for a quarterfinal. Obviously, a lot of people on the outside are going to be pointing to the whole Fuller and Valley game controversy, the red card, Trump's involvement, U.S. soccer, all these things on the outside. The players insist that wasn't a problem in the end. They just weren't good enough. And that's been the story of this. That was the story today. It was the story in 2022 when they played the Netherlands. It was the story in 2014 when they played Belgium. It was the story in 2010 when they played Ghana. It's been the story of this program for decades. And I think the most disheartening part of this is that despite all the hope and momentum and enthusiasm of the past month, it's the same old result. And I think that's going to prompt a lot of difficult questions coming out of this. Has any progress really been made? Are we overestimating the talent on this team, the talent that U.S. soccer is producing right now? Where do we go from here? I don't think there are answers to that right now. There was so much put into this team, from the investment in the head coach, Mauricio Pochettino, to the marketing around this team and the size of this moment. And in the end, none of it mattered. The only thing that mattered was Belgium was better. That's what the players said. They kind of laughed off the US they thought they were underestimated and they beat them down.

[Emma Peyton]

Yeah, I mean, they certainly did beat them down, didn't they? For more on the USA's elimination, do check out the match piece from our team of USMNT writers, Henry, of course, Paul Tenorio and Tom Bogart as well, because that is titled USMNT's World cup ends against Belgium with sloppy last 16 showing Balogun non factor after controversy. We'll get on to Balogan in just a moment, but it feels like crit, some real sort of soul searching for USA Soccer. From the questions posed there by Henry firstly, how do you reflect on their tournament? Is it a success? Is it on par with what they've done before? Or is it a failure because Henry saying there they weren't good enough and that is kind of the story over the last few World Cups now.

[Reuben Pinder]

True.

[Mark Critchley]

I don't think it can be anything more than just par for what we expected from them. I think the bar for any host nation, any host nation whatsoever, is always to try and get out the groups and to try and have a stamp on the tournament because I think even neutrals, we all want every host nation to perform well at the tournament because it just feels better for the tournament, doesn't it? And I think the U.S. they achieved that. They won a knockout game on top of that as well. And they've ultimately gone as far as Canada in Mexico as well. It's enough of a run. There was Enough in those performances, certainly the early performances. I was pretty surprised by how intense, aggressive, just how dynamic they were in those opening group games under Pochettino. But is it a success? I think success would only really count if you are sort of matching your best performance or at least exceeding that. And look, if we put 1930 and to one side, I know they got to the semifinals, third place or whatever, put that to one side. The best is quarterfinals in 2010 too. And they've fallen short of that despite the fact that they're hosts. Despite the fact that there's been huge investment from U.S. soccer in Pochettino and in this World cup and in a generation of players going that would lead it. And despite the fact that they've been given the opportunity to have their best player playing a game where he shouldn't have been playing, despite all those advantages, they've fallen short. And I think there will be a sense of even allowing for American exceptionalism, shall we call it? I think there will be a sense of that they could have gone a little bit further and maybe if it's not a complete failure, it's around about where they expected and probably a little bit less than what they were hoping for given how well they started the tournament.

[Emma Peyton]

I mean you were out there stateside and you said a minute ago about the belief that the American fans had. How do you look at it?

[Jay Harris]

They definitely got a little bit carried away and they were looking at that Belgian game thinking that they were going to get to the, the quarterfinals. I think the draw opened up for them quite kindly, but I think this is just a little bit of a reality check. And Pochettino said it after the game, the quality is just not there in certain positions. Obviously the goalkeeper situation's been exposed quite, quite harshly with Matt Fries mistake for the third goal. Tim Ream, you know, he was a, he was a decent center back during his time in the Premier League with Fulham, but he wasn't amazing. And that was when he was 5, 6 years younger and now he's 38 years old starting a knockout game in a tournament. And he got, I've seen a few people describe it as being bullied by the kettlebird, but it's almost a little bit more than that. It almost got like toyed with. There were times where the queteler was dropping deep and Reem was chasing him up the pitch. As a centre back, you don't want to be doing that. As a 38 year old center back, you definitely don't want to be doing that. And Just some of the lack of quality in the final third. I know there's been so much focus on Pulisic and Baligan for different reasons, but I thought the US's best player by a distance this entire tournament was Malik Tillman. And there were times in the second half of the game yesterday I just felt so sorry for him because he was just completely gassed. But he was still trying to take on two or three people at a time. And there were lots of times he was successful. He'd make the pass and Pulisic would lose it. Or definitely in the final 20 minutes or so before Baligan came off, there were so many random nutmegs and flicks and tricks that just didn't work. And I think it. I know Critch is saying on par, but I actually think because I was out there and I sort of saw how swept up they got by it, I think they'll perceive it as a failure, that this should have been an opportunity where we got to the quarters because of the home advantage, because Pochettino, etc. Because we've got Balogan, because we've got Anthony Robertson, Pulisic and we didn't manage to do that. So I think now the balloon has been well and truly burst.

[Emma Peyton]

We can't not talk about the Fuller in Balogan situation and Donald Trump. How much do we feel the game was overshadowed by this? Because all the talk leading up to the game was focused on that and to be honest, after it as well, really, because Thibaut Courtois spoke about it in his post match. Rudy Garcia also said that Baligan actually came to speak to him after the match, said he appreciated it. Maybe in the end it gave Belgium a bit of added fuel.

[Mark Critchley]

I think that's the point, actually. You know, I think the game was. I don't know if overshadowed, but it was completely affected by it and it was within that context in which all the events played out. And on the US side, I think it's quite hard to tell because to me they were playing within themselves a little bit. It looked like that there wasn't that intensity that I was talking about before that we saw in the earlier games. You're never sure quite from the outside whether that relates to the controversy that's going on at the same time. And I know Henry's answer there. He's saying the players said they weren't affected by it. They are going to say that in more private moments. I imagine they might say something slightly differently, maybe, but it's really the effect that it had On Belgium, I think, is the key point. They're going out after the Kaku's goal. They're doing the little Trump YMCA dance in celebration. You have the quotes from Quarti, we have Telemans as well, said they held a meeting after they heard the news. We told ourselves we needed to do our talking on the pitch. That's what we did. And we're very proud of the team because of that. This is clearly something, an injustice that they felt they wanted to write out there, and they did it in such an emphatic way. I don't think you can really separate the context of what was going on before the game with the game itself. It's just the whole thing, it's a scandal, it's outrageous. But the thing is, it's not entirely surprising either. I mean, Trump's press conference yesterday, where he's talking about. He's just admitting to it. He's just openly admitting to it. And I think this is one thing that FIFA themselves possibly didn't anticipate, is that, yes, you could. Whatever happened, this decision goes this way and people have their suspicions about it. Whatever happened, the Trump administration, senior figures in the Republican Party, they were always going to take credit for it because they can be seen to have done this favor, to have helped the US national team because they believe it helps their support. That is a hugely uncomfortable position for FIFA to be in. And I think as a neutral observer, when the integrity of the competition, of the tournament is thrown into question like that, I think a lot of people last night were thinking it might be just easier if the US go out and if Baligan doesn't have that much of an impact in the game. So it happened in the end, but a real sour taste to what I think a US team that certainly outside of the US had, I wouldn't say won a lot of people over, but people have been impressed by now, you're not that sorry to see the back of them, because you just didn't want this shadow hanging over the tournament.

[Emma Peyton]

Yeah, really well put, Critch. You touched on a minute ago where you feel maybe it went wrong for. For the USA on the pitch, on. On the other side of that, Belgium maybe a bit better than we thought they were.

[Jay Harris]

Possibly. I thought Trossard had a really good game and the Kettela as well. Like I mentioned, his movement was causing the US a lot of problems. And intriguingly, Docu was on the bench, De Bruyne was on the bench. And so Belgium managed to pull off this quite emphatic win, not even necessarily using their best starting 11. And that's possibly where Rudy Garcia has learned as the tournaments continued, what, what he thinks are his best 11 players and what's actually the best team that he needs to put out there. But the US were never really that threatening to Belgium. I do think one big thing is the defender, ngo. He just had the pace to sort of deal with Baligan. So a lot of the time when the US were trying to put those balls into the channels for him to chase, they were just getting cut out. So Baligan didn't really pose that much of a threat. I've already spoken about this over reliance on on Tillman. So Belgium was sort of able to keep them quite comfor at arm's length. And the moment where the game should have changed is Tillman's free kick, which goes in off Vatican. That was the moment where the US needed to settle down. And when the ket scores 90 seconds later, I was watching it live at the time, went, oh, that's game over. Like, it was just too much of a psychological blow to come back from that. And we should also give Belgium a little bit of praise because they lost Onana. And David Ornstein's reported this morning that he's done his acl. Vanikin comes in, you know, the goal deflects off him for, for Tillman's free kick, but then he gets that bizarre, bizarre third goal. But also fair play to Belgium for responding to losing Onana in such a positive way. But yeah, I've definitely been impressed with how Belgium have, having come so close to being eliminated in the previous round, have sort of tweaked a few things and come up with a better solution.

[Emma Peyton]

Just, just back on the USA because Jay, talking a little bit there about Malik Tillman, for you, being the sort their sort of standout player. Of course, of course all the talk has been about Balogun, about Pulisic as well. Another question that Henry posed in, in his clip that he sent us, are the US developing players to the standard that they hope for? Is that a no at the moment?

[Mark Critchley]

Well, they didn't develop Baligan, did they? I think.

[Jay Harris]

I'm glad you said. I'm glad you said this because I need to check something because I don't think they developed Tillman either, because Tillman was born in Germany and spent the majority of his youth career with Gruffa Firth before joining Bayern Munich when he was maybe 13 or 14. So arguably two of their best free players were developed outside of the country

[Mark Critchley]

and not Letting heavily pregnant women on a plane is not a repeatable way of talent development, is it? So unless you want to try that again, look, it's a nation of nearly 350 million people. I think football's the fifth most popular sport. And so for me, we're talking about, is it par, is it success, is it a failure? It's a crude way of measuring it. But if we're talking about that level of country and that level of interest within the sport, getting to the round of 16, getting to quarterfinals of the World cup and fairly consistently, I would say that is about par. I think the biggest challenge that the US has is a late start. It's the fact that football, soccer is not embedded, ingrained within a culture as much as it is in other countries. We all know that to be the case. But it's been something. It's a growing sport, it's the fastest growing sport in the country, but it is. So really over the last 30 years or so, and when you have nations like Japan talking about a hundred year plan to get to the World cup quarterfinals or whatever or semifinals or win it, the US are on that trajectory. They have a lot of things in their advantage at the same time because of the resources, because of the population, again, because of just how much they can throw at it. And you have seen them throw things at it and throw a lot of resources at it. And there's been improvement, I think, and it is a hugely popular sport and with a massive, with a huge population, you're still going to generate enough talent and there's enough players within there. But I think it's about, you know, making more. It's the same thing we talk about with any nation whenever they have a disappointing World cup result. You know, how do we develop players? Well, it's more pitches, it's more coaches, it's more training sessions. It's, you know, football is a sport that is very accessible and I think more accessible than a lot of the most popular sports in America. You can it to something like American football, it's something you can do in the park, outside of the college system, outside of the education system. It's about tapping into that. And I think while the US has made great strides in that over the last three decades or so, there's still a long road for them to go on.

[Emma Peyton]

Just before we move on, a word on Maurizio Pochettino, who didn't want to talk about his future post match. We know he was linked to the spurs job, for example, before Roberto De Zerbi came in. What next for him, do we think?

[Jay Harris]

It's a good question. I think my suspicion was that he'd go back into the club game because the opportunity to manage America at a World cup lower hosting was almost like too good to turn down. But you'd have to be really committed to the project for the next four years. And as you've already mentioned, he was linked to the spurs job. I think he held talks over the AC Milan job. It sort of suggests that maybe he's already eyeing up what comes next. But these performances and last night's result have sort of exposed as critic has already touched upon how much of a job there is to do to continue to raise the standards in U.S. soccer. And does Pochettino have the desire or heart to embark on that and stay with the program for another four years until the next World Cup? Probably not because it's a lot of effort that's required. Right. And a lot of difficult decisions. And because he's already been linked with other clubs, my suspicion would be that he thinks actually it was great to have you guys for the Gold cup and for the World cup in the US but actually I'm just going to go back to the club game and let someone else pick up the pieces.

[Mark Critchley]

Six years out of the top European game is a long time for any manager. If it was to be that, if he was going to do another World cup cycle, I mean, so I, you know, he still lives in London. It's always felt like a bit of a marriage of convenience. The cachet that there is, as you say, being the US manager at a US World cup is huge. I'm sure there's other benefits as well, but I still feel like he's a, he's a top level coach. He still has that reputation. He still has the ability to go for big jobs around Europe and get them. And so why would you give that up to wait around four years for another World Cup?

[Jay Harris]

We should point out that as Chris said, he is a good coach. And fundamentally, you could argue USA made three bad individual mistakes for three of the four goals they conceded. Not competing for the header for the Catalairs first goal, Matt Fries coming out for the third goal and then Richards and. And just tying themselves up in a knot for the fourth goal. Like there's only so much Pochettino can do if some of those players are like Destin McKenney. Not heading the ball in their own box to me is just like, I'm sure he was tearing his hair out. So of course, some of the blame for this performance will lie on his shoulders, and it should do. But as he pointed out, it's also a quality thing, and sometimes that's hard for people to hear that maybe your team's just not good enough.

[Emma Peyton]

So yeah, going to be interesting to see what happens with him.

[Stephen]

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[Emma Peyton]

Right to our discussion of the day, sponsored by Threads. Last night we asked our Threads followers to name the best player to have never won the World Cup. So we'll take a look at some of those shortly. But first, I'll put that question to you two. So, Critch, who comes to mind?

[Mark Critchley]

Who comes to mind? Well, I was looking through some of the comments and I can't believe that every comment isn't just the same as Mr. Matt Barber's. This is Johan Cruyff.

[Emma Peyton]

Yeah, there were a lot. There were a lot.

[Mark Critchley]

Okay, good. Yeah, it's the right answer.

[Emma Peyton]

Yeah. Okay.

[Mark Critchley]

I mean, is there really any.

[Emma Peyton]

Is there a right and wrong here?

[Mark Critchley]

Well, there is familiar opinion.

[Emma Peyton]

Okay. Yeah, a lot of people said Johan Croye.

[Mark Critchley]

Yeah, well, look, he's genius as a player, an inspiration as a thinker. Like a cultural, culturally significant figure. A counterculturally significant figure, you could say as well, given all the chain smoking he did. I think he showed you can play football with a brain and when you do, it's beautiful. And like his influence, for me, the first thing that I ever remember about being coached to play football was being when Bolton Wanderers youth team coaches came into my primary school. And, and I remember two things they taught us. The Cruyff Turn, which was the first thing they taught us. And then we all got a free wagon wheel at the end of the day. And that's not why he's the architect of the modern game. Absolutely not. It's not the main reason, at least, but it is our reason, because his influence just stretches into every pore and every sinew. Of the modern game. And so it's Cruyff, your school.

[Emma Peyton]

Much better than mine. How is your Cruyff turn then?

[Mark Critchley]

Not great. I actually was watching it again last night. I was like, I'm going to practice this a little bit more. I want to pull it out in staff media.

[Emma Peyton]

It's been a while, hasn't it? Yeah.

[Jay Harris]

How was the Wagon Wheel?

[Mark Critchley]

I love the Wagon Wheel.

[Emma Peyton]

That's a throwback. What about you?

[Jay Harris]

Well, Critch is right. The answer is Johan Cruyff because of his influence and just his quality and how close that total football Dutch side came. But I was just thinking of a few other examples because I didn't just want to go into a chat about Cristiano Ronaldo and Cruyff because that was another name that came up quite a lot. So I was thinking of players who. People like Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Gareth Bale. Very good individuals who never really made an impact at a World cup, probably because their supporting cast wasn't good enough. So maybe we sort of forget that. Particularly Bell like Bale, at his peak was deciding champions league finals, etc. But he was never getting out of the group stage or maybe not even qualifying for the World cup as well. So I thought he was probably worth a shout. And Ibrahimovic as well. But maybe that's because of the PR machine that exists around Zlatan Ibrahim at

[Emma Peyton]

the moment as well. We're seeing a lot of pieces on Fox, but we really appreciate some of you getting involved. Richard as posted saying CR7 I think a lot of people saying Ronaldo and especially front of mind Matt Barber, like Critch and like many has said Johan Cruyff. Pascal has got in touch saying Platin. Christopher Lafuria has said, I don't have the knowledge of history like most fans commenting, but my personal pick would be Steven Gerrard, probably a Liverpool.

[Jay Harris]

There were better England players above Gerrard. So like Rooney for example, when Rooney was at his peak.

[Mark Critchley]

That's true. I think it's a left field shout there.

[Emma Peyton]

Well, for your chance to be featured in the next discussion of the day feature, head over to threads and follow TheAthletic FC and please do join the conversation. Right, well, talking of the best players to never win the World cup as mentioned, Cristiano Ronaldo and Portugal were knocked out by Spain on Monday. Mikel Marino with a stoppage time winner for the European Champions. There to see it in Dallas was the Athletics Reuben Pinder.

[Reuben Pinder]

So no more Portugal at this World cup and no more Roberto Martinez as Portugal manager. Truthfully it was quite an uneventful game. Spain eventually broke down Portugal's defensive with some nice link up play between Ferran Torres and Mikel Mourinho. But as always, when Cristiano Ronaldo is playing, the attention is on him. And you couldn't help but notice just how detached he seemed from the rest of the Portugal team. He was always straying into an offside position, desperately trying to get back onside when Portugal regained the ball. But this just led to some very disjointed attacking play. And you did wonder how players like Bruno Fernandes feel having just wasted another opportunity to go deep in a tournament with such a stacked squad in what will probably also be his last World Cup. Spain march on with not their best performance. A concern for them would be Lamina Mar's fitness. He still doesn't look 100%, but as always, some very neat and tidy passing in midfield. And if Lamina Mar can get back to full fitness for the quarterfinals, then they stand a really good chance of getting to the final and maybe winning it.

[Emma Peyton]

Yeah, big thanks to Ruben for that. We're going to get on to Spain shortly, but as Ruben said, when it comes to Portugal, so much attention focused on Cristiano Ronaldo. James has written for the Athletic after this game saying Cristiano Ronaldo was indulged at this World cup and Portugal paid the price. Crit, how do you, how do you look at Portugal's campaign? Of course there is always going to be focus on Cristiano Ronaldo and it does feel like the end of an era for him.

[Mark Critchley]

Yeah, I think this is what else did we expect? I feel like every conversation that we've had about Portugal on this podcast, even pre tournament has been centered around this question, this sole question. And it turned out exactly as everybody predicted and expected. I mean, a couple of goals against Uzbekistan, the penalty against Croatia, he got his first World cup knockout goal. Fair play to him. So maybe not in that goat conversation for the best player never to in the World cup, but still, I think, look, it's the inevitable question and I think that almost gets to the nub of the issue here because when we're talking about Ronaldo, so we're not talking about Bruno Fernandes, we're not talking about Bernardo Silva. Both of them probably played their last World Cups now and haven't achieved at international level what players of their talent and ability should be achieving. We're not talking about Joao Neves, we're not talking about Vitinha, we're not Talking about Nuna Mendes, three back to back Champions League winners, some of the best players in the position in Europe, but they become a sideshow, they become auxiliary to the Ronaldo show. And that's always been the case. And I just think that, you know, he's, he's talking about this being his last World cup and people talk about the last dance thing. The thing about last dances is you need to know when the music stopped. Otherwise you look pretty silly if you keep dancing.

[Emma Peyton]

I like that.

[Mark Critchley]

And I think that Ronaldo, he can say that it's his last World Cup. I still don't quite believe him. And I think that's the heart of it as well. You know, the next World Cup's in Portugal, part of it. So is he really going to give up that opportunity to play another? If he's still going and why wouldn't he still be going? I'm sure his whoop band's telling him he can still keep going. So, so he's. I, I don't, I don't fundamentally believe that this won't be his last World Cup. If it is fair play to him. It shows a little bit more self reflection and self knowledge that I think we typically associate with him. It sounds like it's a very critical answer. He's been a brilliant player. He's been a great player. He's one of the greatest of all time. A phenomenal player in his day. A physical specimen. Somebody who through a game, dominate a game, totally grab a game just by the scruff of its neck and win it on his own. That isn't the Ronaldo that we've seen for four, five years now, I would say at least. And it was never going to be the Ronaldo that was going to come to this World Cup. And I think that Portugal's tournament ending with a whimper, with a real whimper. To go out without really making that much of an impact, without ever really impressing is such a shame given the quality that is within the rest of the squad. And it's hard not to put that to the door of Ronaldo. And Roberto Martinez's insistence on playing him

[Emma Peyton]

ultimately summed up really well. Other wearable tech is available. What did you make of the post match, Jay? Because Ronaldo really keen to point out that he's won three trophies with Portugal. They hadn't won any before that. And this seems to have rubbed some people up the wrong way.

[Jay Harris]

I think it was just like very self serving. And even when the full time whistle went and I was watching it down the Pub with two of my best mates. It just felt very performative the way he was sort of sulking across the pitch and as if he was where to where the cameras were, were looking at him and he needed to shed a couple of tears etc. And I just find it a little bit disingenuous. Yes. What he said about Portugal, you know, winning famously the Euros with him in euro in 2016 and a couple of Nations League titles. But I was just looking up Mark Rich was speaking their record over the last decade, including sort of this era of, or this generation rather, of Bernardo Silva, Bruno Fernandes. So round of 16 at the 2018 World cup quarterfinals, at the World cup in Qatar, where they got knocked out by Morocco. Round of 16 at this one. And then for Euros it was round of 16 in 2018, 2020 and 2024. They got to the quarterfinals. They've not even reached the semi finals of any competition in the last 10 years. That's massively underperforming for that team that's got Fernandez, Silva, Rafael, Ja Felix, and that's basically because the team is always in service to Cristiano Ronaldo when, correct me if I'm wrong, but when I think of Bruno Fernandes at his best, it is playing those very slick passes between the lines, releasing Mbumo, whoever it is, those speedy attackers running past him into space. Ronaldo. That's not Ronaldo's game anymore. But you're putting people like Rafael and Pedro Neto on the bench who would maybe suit Fernandez more just because of the. The sort of Aurum power that Ronaldo carries. And it just means that you're. You've gone out yet again. So this is a very underwhelming way for Portugal to go out, but it's the least surprising way for Portugal to be eliminated.

[Emma Peyton]

Yeah, underwhelming, underperformed, maybe for. For multiple major tournaments. Like you said, they almost feel like a missed opportunity when you look at the players that they've got. You said about some of the other players that that was probably their last World Cup. The likes of Bruno Fernandez is.

[Mark Critchley]

Yeah. And I think Jay's point there about, you know, Bruno, obviously watch a lot of Bruno. One thing that he is better than anybody else at is knowing what kind of pass to play to what teammate. You know, he will know how to. What just how Benjamin Chesko likes a ball play to him, how Brian and Bumo likes a ball play to him. He will modify and moderate those passes depending on that teammate's particular skills and characteristics. If he's playing in a team where everything is basically in service to one player. That is a fundamental limit of his ability. You know, that is a fundamental. I'm not saying he only passes to Cristiano Ronaldo, but when that focus is so predominantly on one player, it becomes stifling. And I think that's the case for Bruno, it's the case for Jon Neves, it's the case for Nuno Mendes, it's the case for Vitinha, it's the case for all of these players who have to be in service to Ronaldo. And I think we'd seen. I almost wonder, what if he hadn't scored those goals against Uzbekistan? Would that have maybe even helped Portugal a little bit? Because, yes, the cacophony of noise that is around this issue and always surrounds this issue would have only increased. The volume would only have been higher. But it might have forced Martinez into a decision at some point. And he is capable of making those decisions. We've seen him take him off before. We've seen him in the Nations League. I think he was substituting him in the semifinals final. You know, it's not that he was absolutely intransigent. Ronaldo has to play at all times. But it felt like if Ronaldo was justifying it through a penalty here, a goal against Uzbekistan there, then it was a political question and a political situation that would rather be avoided. I don't think that's a healthy environment in which to try and win a football tournament, to be honest, for any national team. But I do wonder if we're going to be having these questions again in two years time and then in four years time and forever, how long it lasts.

[Jay Harris]

One, one thing just to play a devil's advocate, because we haven't actually spoken about the goal Mikel Mourinho scored, and I noticed at the time, but it's very, very similar to the chance Oyazabal misses in the first half, in the sense that the person playing Oyazabal and Mourinho on in both scenarios is Renato Vega, who's the left sided centre back. And he's two or three yards deeper than everybody else. So, yes, don't get me wrong, there were fundamental issues going forward, but actually Spain on two separate occasions exposed the bad positioning of the centre back. And you can only give those players so many opportunities to do that. But that's the fine margins. Yes, everything that we said is still true, but it came down to a centre back being out of position a couple of times. The first time they got away with it, they didn't learn the lesson and the second time Marino pounce.

[Emma Peyton]

And you talked about Marino's winner there. But just a word on Spain who are of course into the quarterfinals. They faced Belgium there. Maybe not the most eye catching of performances. Ruben talked about Lamin still not being fully fit at the moment, but still yet to concede in this tournament six matches in a row now that they they haven't conceded a goal.

[Jay Harris]

I think we have to give Spain credit because they're just constantly able to change and do things a little bit differently. And Marino is the sort of perfect example of that. Like he's just not a natural striker and Neva is a Yazaba, but you can bring them on and they pose slightly different problems. And what you said about the defenses I actually didn't appreciate. But it's yeah, a really good point that they have the attacking qualities in your Marino Yazabel Alex Baena to cause you problems, but equally difficult scoring against them as well.

[Emma Peyton]

Yeah, okay. Today sees the round of 16 draw to a close. So coming up later on, Switzerland, Colombia is the final match of the round. But before that it is Lionel Messi's Argentina who meet Mo Salah's Egypt. Very much looking forward to both of those.

[Stephen]

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Emma Peyton.

[Mark Critchley]

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[Emma Peyton]

Time now, though, for our do you know daily Trivia on day 27 of the world Cup. Jay, you've been out the loop with this. Critch has been doing his homework for a lot of these. Been, you know, doing various quizzes.

[Jay Harris]

But, you know, when I was in the meantime in Chicago on the Athletic FC Daily Cup, I was winning a lot of the. The trivia games we had on that show, so.

[Emma Peyton]

Let's hope so.

[Mark Critchley]

Yeah, but I wasn't.

[Emma Peyton]

Let's hope these questions. Let's hope these questions are similar then. Prior to the 2026 World Cup, 27 father and sons had gone to the World cup as players. Yeah. But do you know which of these duos have made the most combined appearances? If either of you get this first, I will be.

[Jay Harris]

I was gonna say, is it someone we're genuinely gonna know?

[Emma Peyton]

Well, you know them. Yeah, for sure.

[Mark Critchley]

Father and son combos.

[Jay Harris]

The only father and son combo I can think of at the moment is Justin and Patrick Cliver. And it's definitely not them.

[Mark Critchley]

And I can think of.

[Jay Harris]

And I can't think of anybody else.

[Mark Critchley]

Ida Good Johnson and Andrea Good Johnson, he plays for Blackburn. I don't even think he. I don't even know if he's been capped by Iceland. And they've. They've played at one World Cup.

[Jay Harris]

That's a long way of saying it's

[Mark Critchley]

not Edgar Johnson because he, His. He came on for his dad in the game as well. That's why I'm thinking of. Oh, yeah, five minutes on combos.

[Emma Peyton]

So the sun is at the World cup right now, if that's going to help you. You in the France squad. That was quick. That was quick. Okay. Well done. I thought you might come up with.

[Mark Critchley]

Was that it?

[Emma Peyton]

Was that it? What do you mean, was that it?

[Mark Critchley]

You just needed to give one answer, so.

[Emma Peyton]

Well, I, I thought you would say Peter Schmeichel. Casper Schmeichel. Yeah, I thought 12 appearances.

[Mark Critchley]

I thought. I would have thought that was.

[Emma Peyton]

Yeah, but you didn't, you know. Yeah, but Lillian and Marcus Thoram, 21 appearances.

[Jay Harris]

Are there any other honorable mentions in there?

[Emma Peyton]

Honorable mention to Pablo and Diego Fornica. 13 appearances together.

[Jay Harris]

Also, Pablo's his dad, but he's not his son.

[Emma Peyton]

Yeah. Okay. Moving on, we have focused in on the World Cup. Time now to talk Premier League managerial news. Crystal Palace's Europa Conference League winning coach, Oliver Glasner will be in charge of Nottingham Forest next season. Well, joining us now is our Nottingham Forest correspondent, Paul Taylor. Paul thank you so much for joining us. There is loads going on at Forest at the moment. Let's. So let's start by talking about the Vita Pereira departure. First of all, Pereira saved the club from relegation. Losing just one of their last 10 Premier League games, led the team to the semi finals of the Europa League as well. And he has said since his departure that this came as a complete surprise and without any warning. I mean, it seems like a job well done in the end, certainly at the end of last season. So what on earth happened there?

[Paul Taylor]

Yeah, well, it was a job well done. You know, Vitor Pereira came in with the very specific task of keeping Nottingham Forest in the Premier League and tried to juggle that with progress in Europe as well. It was the first time they were back in Europe three decades. And he managed to achieve both, certainly emphatically in the case of staying in the Premier League and also getting them to the semi finals of the Europa League as well, where they were beaten by Aston Villa. So he did his job, and he did it largely with a smile on his face. He was a popular figure with the players, he was a popular figure with the fans, and he kind of provided the kind of unity and togetherness that had been the cornerstone of Forest's success under both Steve Cooper and Nuno Espirito Santo. So, yes, it was a little bit of a surprise that he departed in the manner that he did.

[Emma Peyton]

I mean, that all sounds very positive. So I guess the big question is why? Why did they get rid of him?

[Paul Taylor]

Ambition. Ambition's the key word here for Forest. I think Evangelos Maranakis is a man who attract, let's be fair, a lot of criticism for different reasons. But one thing you can never accuse him of is not making decisions that he thinks are in the best interest of Nottingham Forest and taking them on to the next level. He's taken them from being in the championship to a year ago or just over a year ago, being on the verge of challenging for a place in the Champions League. So the transformation under him has been pretty emphatic. And from the very beginning, he's always seen Forest as being a club that, in his eyes could be one that competes at the top end of the Premier League, not perhaps against the very big guns, but as a club that could compete for, challenging for a regular place in Europe. I think in Oliver Glasner, they see a man who's won trophies, who's won trophies at Crystal palace, winning the FA cup with them and then winning the Conference League with them last season. And they see a man who can bring silverware and that kind of consistent success to the City ground.

[Mark Critchley]

Now, Paul, you mentioned Marinakis wanting to get Forest right up into the top end of that Premier League table. But after a season where they've had four head coaches and a relegation battle, what do you think is going to be the immediate target for Oliver Glasner?

[Paul Taylor]

I think they'll probably be aiming to be back in Europe or at least competing to be in that kind of fight for European qualification. Again, perhaps not Champions League, but certainly being in the mix for a top half finish or top 10 finish, whatever the requirements, end up being for a place in Europe this year. I think Forester want to be competing on that level. I think there was a feeling that amid a season of real chaos last year, they underachieved a little bit with the squad that they've got. They went from Nuno Espirito Santo to Ange Postecoglou to Sean Dyche and then to Pereira, all in the space of a season. And amid all of that, they still managed to progress to a certain degree in Europe and avoid relegation. But this year, with hopefully some stability brought about by the appointments of Glassnaur, they'll be aiming rather higher than another fight against relegation. I certainly think there'll be a huge amount of disappointment if they're anywhere near a relegation battle again.

[Jay Harris]

April we know about Marinaki's his track record of firing hiring managers. Oliver Glasner can be quite a spiky personality at times as well, and obviously his era or his spell at palace came to quite a combustible end. Is it inevitable that these two are going to clash?

[Paul Taylor]

Yes and no. I think. I mean, I don't know the ins and outs of the situation at palace completely, but from what I've read and what I've seen, the situation there seemed to be that Glasner's upset was caused by the perception that he perhaps wasn't getting the kind of support that he wanted in the transfer market from the club hierarchy then. I think whatever criticisms you want to level at Marinakis, one of them has never been that he doesn't back his managers. They invest heavily in the transfer market. They did it again last summer, investing somewhere between 180 and 200 million pounds to sign a flurry of new players again. And I don't think there'll be anything like that scale of investment again this summer as they. They approach a season where they won't be competing in Europe. But I think they will spend a reasonable Amount of money on four or five, three or four quality new additions just to add to what they've got to try and change the dynamic of the campaign as they, as they've appointed a new manager they believe can bring bigger and better things back to the city ground.

[Emma Peyton]

Interesting times, Paul, thank you. Really appreciate it, Critch. Before we move on, then, is this a sideways step for Oliver Glasner? I mean, palace don't have the resources of Nottingham Forest, do they? But they did finish one place above them in the Premier League last season and look, they've had an incredible couple of seasons.

[Mark Critchley]

Yeah, I think I remember being back in January after Ruben Amarim left United and Oliver Glass's name was being linked. And so it's not that calibre of job, I would suppose. I don't know if Glassner was ever really seriously considered by United, though. And I think there's always been a certain question of how his style of play would be adapted to an elite club. Essentially. I think what Glasner's been most successful with is a sort of lower block, low possession, direct approach, playing on the counter attack. And if I think about it, that's a very close stylistic fit to a lot of the traits which I associate with the best Forest sides that we've seen over the last few years in the Premier League, certainly the most competitive ones. I like the fit in that sense and I think that it suits the squad, it suits the level of the players and the abilities of the players. I think as long as you're going in there accepting that he's around for a good time and not a long time, then that's fine. And it feels like Forest are a club that treat managers in the same way. So it feels like a symbiotic relationship in that respect. So I think it's a good fit. Maybe, with all due respect, maybe it's not the level of job that Glasner was being linked with when he was at the very height of his success with palace, but he'll make them extremely competitive and I think he's a huge insurance policy, I would say, against being stuck in another relegation fact.

[Emma Peyton]

Agree. That is a good fit.

[Jay Harris]

Yeah, I find it a little bit odd, especially because of all of the drama that happened between palace and Nottingham Forest last year with the Europa League places. So I know that some of the things Glasner had said towards the end of the season had certainly turned a significant section of the palace supporters against him, and I feel like he's the most successful manager in the history and now he's gone to the rivals they've been arguing with. So from that perspective, I find it a little bit strange. Same with Critch, where it felt like Glasna's name was being thrown around a lot of the slightly more appealing jobs. And so for him to end up at Forest is just. I'm just a little bit confused by it. And like I asked Paul, to me it's just inevitable that it will end badly because it's not just a crystal palace where Glasner has fallen out with the people who are his superiors. It's happened at Huntracht Frankfurt as well. So I just feel like there is gonna be some sort of fireworks sooner rather than later.

[Emma Peyton]

Yeah, well, we'll wait and see for that, gents. Thanks for your company today. Brilliant having you on and being with you guys. Jay, good to have you back as well.

[Jay Harris]

Thank you. Hope I wasn't too jet lagged.

[Emma Peyton]

No, you didn't sound it. What's your sleep schedule now? Are you just kind of gonna stay Chicago time just to watch watch the World Cup? Basically.

[Jay Harris]

What time are the games on tonight? I think they're slightly earlier, but also I felt like I needed to watch the US because I'd spent a couple of weeks out there.

[Emma Peyton]

He's suddenly a USA fan now. Yeah, yeah.

[Jay Harris]

I'm a soccer fan. Obviously. I was always going to stay out to watch England. So I'm sort of hoping I can get a slightly earlier night tonight.

[Emma Peyton]

There we go. Get your get your schedule back on track. Thanks for today, guys. A big thanks as well to Paul, to Reuben, and to Henry. Remember that all our World cup coverage is free over on the athletic app, so do get involved over there. I'll be back tomorrow, so see you then.

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