David Ornstein (2:42)

The Athletic FC.

Ayo Akinwaleere (2:45)

Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere Mohamed Salah. Sean Brightley coming off the bench for Liverpool in their win over Brighton. Now he heads off to AFCON with Egypt. So will Mo Salah be back in favor at Liverpool when and if he returns? All right, in with us today, we've got James Pierce who was at Anfield on Saturday. We've also got David Ornstein, our football correspondent with us as well. Yeah, James Salah came on just 25 minutes into the match. Slot made the call and Mo Salah assisted a goal. The crowd was singing jubilantly at the end. Everything's all pretty good, isn't it?

James Pearce (3:29)

It's certainly a lot calmer than it was a week ago. We know that for sure. Yeah, he was involved in Saturday's game a lot sooner than anyone anticipated, certainly himself included, because it was unfortunate. You know, Joe Gomez went down with a hamstring injury and Salah got the call. So. Yeah, and he, you know, he got a great reception. I always thought he would do because I think once Slot had made the call on Friday to bring him back into the fold, it was never going to be a case of kind of for fans having to pick sides, you know, whether you're team Slot or team Salah. That was just, you know, it was out the question. Slot Slot did what he felt was in the best interests of the team by putting him back in the squad and he did that by bringing him on as his first substitute. And. And Salah certainly played like he had a point to prove because that's the best I've seen from him in a Liverpool shirt for a number of months.

Ayo Akinwaleere (4:17)

Do you think he's a player that kind of thrives off adversity a little bit. I don't know whether his comments were there just to stoke the fire, maybe get a little something more from himself and get the crowd on board. I don't know. I'm just trying to still make some sort of logic as to why the outburst, you know?

James Pearce (4:31)

Yeah, I think it's very difficult to know for sure what the motivation was, whether it was just pure frustration. I think that's certainly a big element of it because we're talking about one of the greatest players that's ever graced the Premier League who is not used to sitting on the substitute bench. And clearly for it to happen three games in a row kind of pushed him to breaking point in terms of he felt the need to speak out. But yeah, he. I think you could see it meant a lot to him, the fact that he was serenaded back onto the Field and he gave the fans something to shout about with his performance. You know, another piece of history, you know now most goal involvements for a single Premier League club ever going to pass Wayne Rooney. And then of course it was all eyes on, you know, how he responded after the final whistle. Because I think everyone was thinking is, is this goodbye? It didn't feel like it to me.

Ayo Akinwaleere (5:21)

Okay, yeah, we'll delve more into that a little later on. David brings me to the point really do we get a have a better sense after that bright match what the state of play is between Liverpool and Mo Salah?

David Ornstein (5:31)

Well I think Liverpool's stance is pretty clear. The word coming from Anfield is that they expect him to stay. They've got no intention of letting him go. They never did. They feel that their commitment to him was shown when he signed the new contract in May of 2025 and that for all intents and purposes it commits him to the summer of 2027. And I guess for the time being their intention is that he remains with them for the rest of this season. Nobody I've spoken to of a Liverpool persuasion sees him leaving. They think the transfer window will pass and he'll still be at the club. And that's because they feel this is an issue that was created by Mo Salah in terms of his dissatisfaction seemingly at what he described as maybe broken promises. We're sort of guessing here because he hasn't elaborated. Maybe that refers to game time and an expectation that he should be a guaranteed starter. He in every game irrespective of form or what the team needs. Now he should be allowed to reply to that because it a bit harsh for us to be presumptuous but kind of that's all we've got at the moment as a notion. And Liverpool are never going to guarantee somebody game time irrespective of his legendary status. And so the ball is kind of in Salah's court, you know. And that's why when you know, reports emerged off the back of the inclusion against Brighton sort of suggesting that issues persist. From the checks I've made those issues would appear to be sort of at Salah's end in terms of is he willing to adapt to the reality of the situation at Liverpool in terms of team selection or is he not? If he is then everybody will be fine because that's been Liverpool's position throughout, you know, they want him to be there. If he's not then of course an issue is going to persist because he needs to decide what he wants to do. It's not really for Liverpool in that sense because they've got him under contract and if he decides that he wants to go then he'll have to with his representatives I guess try and resolve this with Liverpool. Maybe come up with some proposals for the January transfer window on maybe an exit. But that's his prerogative as opposed to Liverpool's because they insist they're not looking to sell him. Other people have speculated to the contrary and sort of said that maybe Liverpool have decided to move on from him and perhaps that's what Salah was getting at. But that is rebuffed. When you speak to people around the club they say no, it's been made very clear what we want to do in terms of the contract renewal and we stand by that now. But at the same time there's selection issues across the team and in the sense of the meetings and the conversations that have been had we're now learning via slot that that's not necessarily post leads. It was actually pre leads and that they were talking about issues in terms of how Mo Salah felt prior to Elland Road. And it was him going with his post match interview that forced Liverpool to then act and take what they believe to be a very pragmatic decision in withdrawing him for selection for Inter Milan away. Because it was so raw, you know it was. It basically had the Monday to deal with it. That's when they. They flew and then they did say it was just an isolated decision. It wasn't punishment. For all intents and purposes he could come back into selection consideration for the weekend. That's exactly what happened. Which they will feel is pragmatic as well. He did seem to play pretty well. He seemed quite happy. It didn't seem to be a final curtain on. On his Liverpool career. Even though it was a sort of wave to the crowd and therefore the break will give everybody some time whether it be his side to. To look at what they want to do to talk to potential suitors. I don't know that they can do whatever they want for Liverpool to. To reflect but I think they seem pretty calm and potentially for. For this relationship to continue post Afcon whenever Egypt finished their time there and the word you hear is sort of pragmatism and that it's been dealt with so far in a fairly mature way with the team at the sort of forefront of everything Liverpool are doing now. They've been through a sort of really tough period and they'd like to think they're coming out of it, the results were not good, the Salah incident was not good. But there does seem to be some light at the end of this tunnel.

Ayo Akinwaleere (9:47)

James. It's fair to say that Salah's outburst has been forgiven but I guess not forgotten. So how important for any sense of peace was it that Salah was next named in the matchday squad unlike he was against Inter in midweek?

James Pearce (10:00)

Yeah, it would have been a much bigger story, wouldn't it again if, if he had been left out for a second game in a row And I think it shows that you know, Slot doesn't bear a grudge that you know he, he said he'd be doing what he felt was in the best interests of the club and, and that clearly was to, to bring Salah back in because you know, purely from a pragmatic point of view as well, you know, with some of the injuries they've got, you know, with Gagpo missing for a few weeks as well, you know and as it turned out they needed Salah and he played a part in, in the win. So his comments undoubtedly divided opinion amongst the fan base. You know the vast majority of kind of die hard fans that I spoke to over in Milan last week, they felt pretty angry and let down by him. They felt that it was selfish to come out with what he said and to pile negativity on the club at a difficult time. But there is a section of fans who think he has been scapegoated in a way and harshly cast aside when other players have been just as culpable in terms of the bad run that Liverpool are on. But I think what all Liverpool fans can agree on is they just want to see Salah back playing for Liverpool with a smile on his face and impacting games and that was exactly what he did on Saturday and that was why he received Thunderous applause from 60 odd thousand people.

Ayo Akinwaleere (11:12)

Yeah, I don't know who's writing the scripts for Salah but I don't know how inevitable it was that he would actually contribute to one of the goals as well in trademark fashion. James whipping in that corner for Ekatike to finish off.

James Pearce (11:22)

Yeah, it did feel written in the stars that he once he came on that he would have a significant part to play. He should have scored actually, you know, he wasted a decent chance right in stoppage time. That would have been the kind of the script he would have hoped it had followed when he was just at full stretch to try and meet a Chiesa cross. And he was also kicking himself with a couple of times on the counter attack. He just over hit the final pass a little bit when he could have released teammates. But the thing that struck me more than anything about watching Salah on the weekend was his work off the ball because that's, that's been the big criticism this season because he doesn't trap back, because he doesn't help out enough. Liverpool have been so vulnerable down their right hand side and opponents have been quite public about I remember hearing Cucarella talk about it when Liverpool lost at Chelsea, saying that that was a key part of what we talked about pre match. We can get at Liverpool there and there was one moment in the first half when he was actually the deepest lying Liverpool player. He'd raced back 60, 70 yards to help out when Brighton countered dangerously. And that's what you want because I think if we'd seen that from Salah more often this season then we wouldn't have been in this position because I don't think his place in the side would have been the topic of such debate. But because the goals and assists are dried up, inevitably there's going to be scrutiny, more scrutiny on other parts of his game.

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Ayo Akinwaleere (15:32)

David, you know last Thursday on the Athletic, you know, we collated the and reported a what we're hearing on Salah's future. You sort of alluded to a few bits there, but are we any clearer after this weekend's developments?

David Ornstein (15:44)

Well, if he's not going to speak further and he had the chance in the mix zone after Anfield, I think he said what you you expect me to do it twice in a few days? Then you've got another thing coming. So that would indicate that not necessarily going to learn more from him in the immediate term. Let's see when he goes off to the Africa cup of nations and if he speaks when he's not on club duty because if the ball truly is in his court, then it's kind of up to him to decide what he wants to do. Of course he's under contract. If he wants to go and There are credible ways in which that can manifest itself. Then presumably, you know, we'll hear about it pretty soon. I'm not hearing that right now. You could say Liverpool would say that they don't want him to go and that he's their player because they want to protect their asset and if there's a market they don't want to harm his value. But the conversation I've had feel really genuine and resounding. There is no issue for Liverpool to fix because he's their player. They want want him to be their player. They never brought this about in their eyes. There are selection decisions. They've had a tough time, he maybe hasn't been at his best form. That's not to say they don't believe in him. As James said, his performance on Saturday suggested maybe conversations have been had about what Arna Slot wants from him if he's going to include him in the team. There's been a lot of conversation about how Salah was given license, whether under Klopp or the start of Slot to not, not defend and to conserve his energy, which I think he's spoken about for, for sort of attacking. But maybe that is not sustainable and he needs to offer more even as he gets older. But he's in great physical condition and you saw the numbers last season which is why he was rewarded with that enormous deal. Two years on what, 20 million, about £400,000 a week makes him one of the highest paid players in the Premier League or keeps him at that stage. I think there was no break or release clause and you don't know if some of the finances relate to performance and results and achievements. It is the case in many contracts that there's incentives. But I'm sure Mohamed Salah's desire to play every match is not financial. It's because he's an absolute machine, goal scoring, assists, entertainment and he wants to continue doing that at the very highest level. And so all evidence I've got is that the relationship is actually going to continue despite this dramatic period. However, there will be some conversations clearly that need to be had, that they have already started and there will be no shortage of interest in him. So if they decide they want to go and play elsewhere, they want to walk away from this contract. I'm talking both parties here, that he's no longer going to be playing for Liverpool or Champions League and competing for Premier League title with them, then I'm sure alternatives can be arranged pretty rapidly. However, I don't sense that to be the case right now and we can talk about what the alternatives would look like on this pod.

Ayo Akinwaleere (18:41)

Yeah, for sure, but we'll definitely get to that point. James, you've been in Slot's press conferences since Salah's explosive mixed zone interview last week. What have you made of how he's dealt with it all?

James Pearce (18:52)

Yeah, I think he's handled it incredibly well. He's emerged from it. Of course results have helped in terms of his position but I think also just the way in which he's stepped up and the leadership he's shown. The pre match press conference in San Siro at the start of last week was one of the more remarkable ones I've covered in 20 years of following Liverpool around because I think we were about 15, 16 minutes into the press conference before Inter Milan even got a mention because it was the Mo Salah show. Someone who wasn't even in Italy because he'd been left on Merseyside. And I wondered how Slot would handle that because it was a barrage of questions with him speaking publicly for the first time since Salah had given that interview. But I thought he was measured, he was composed, he was assertive, you know, he left the door open, you know, for things to be repaired but he didn't also didn't beat around the bush in terms of making it clear that I think you could sense he was angry and that he felt that both he and Richard Hughes, the sporting director and Michael Edwards were in agreement that action had to be taken. And that was by leaving Salah behind, which was a big call because again if that had gone wrong against Inter, you know, he would have been criticized. You know, imagine if Liverpool hadn't got anything from that game. You know, you've left out one of the greatest attacking players in Premier League history. Yeah and I think the way that then he dealt with it ahead of the weekend was Friday's press conference. He said, you know, I will make a decision myself once I've spoken to Mo later because he clearly wanted some reassurances before he made that call. And, and then I think his decision to bring him back was vindicated by the performance that Salah served up on the pitch. And yeah, when you think of how horrendous a position, you know, his heart must have sank when you know, off the back of conceding that late equalizer Elland Road. And then you know, you've effectively got a civil war erupting with an icon of the club basically saying he's finished with you essentially that his relationship with you has completely kind of Evaporated to then have to deal with the fallout of that. And two, you know, tricky games to come out with it with two wins, two clean sheets and a smiling Mo Salah having contributed to the second of those wins. I think it's enhanced Slot standing.

Ayo Akinwaleere (21:11)

Do you think it was also sort of strategically, from his perspective, really important to show who is in authority here, dropping him and then reinstating him. James. Because I think, you know, when, when someone's that explosive and saying, yeah, the relationship between me and the coach has broken down, then all eyes are on Slot to make some sort of call and at the end of the day he's still the one in charge here.

James Pearce (21:32)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and you know, and maybe we don't know, but maybe part that motivation of Salah pressing the nuclear button was that he sensed that Slot's position was vulnerable, that this guy is up against it. You know, having had such a turbulent few months in the job. And you know, there has been a section of this fan base, still a minority, but a section calling for Che. So yeah, it was a huge thing for Slot to deal with, but I think he's shown real strength. People were maybe a bit surprised that Richard Hughes and Michael Edwards names were kind of talked about in the decision to leave Salah behind, but I think that was inevitable because that went beyond just a plain selection decision because it was. Although Liverpool said it wasn't a disciplinary issue, it was still effectively punishment for what he'd come out and said. But yeah, Slot was very clear on Friday that he said selection when it's just about who starts, who's going to be on the bench, who misses out on the bench. He said, that's my call and I'll make it after I've sat down with Mo at the AXA training center on Friday afternoon. And he did that. So, yeah, I think he'll be glad on the slot that there's no midweek game this week because I think everyone involved could do with the dust just settling a little bit after such a crazy, crazy week.

Ayo Akinwaleere (22:51)

Yeah, David, from what you've said, I mean it seems like Salah's position is relatively secure at Liverpool. No talks of him maybe leaving, but this is football. What other potentials could we be seeing? Saudi Arabia, I know have been interested the MLSA perhaps if it doesn't work out.

David Ornstein (23:07)

Yeah, we documented this in the piece that you referred to the other day. There's been long standing interest from Saudi Arabia. I think it was Aletihad who made the first move in the summer of 2023 and I think at the time there was whether it's a rule or just a, a common courtesy in the Saudi pro league, especially with a number of clubs being owned by the public investment fund of Saudi Arabia pif that whoever makes the first move kind of gets a free run at it. You don't want to create competition between pier phone clubs which will potentially drive the price higher and that extended to first refusal for the future as well. Now I don't know how strictly clubs stick to that that because of course Al Hilal then came in ahead of the club World Cup. I think it was sort of this time last year, January and showed some interest amid Mo Salah's contract uncertainty. But that didn't come to fruition either. However, the sort of admiration won't have gone away certainly. Alitihad, from what we hear, I'm led to believe not so much from Al Hilau at the moment. Neither of them have got space right now in terms of being able to sign Salah. They would have to shift somebody out, maybe pay them to go. In Ittihad's case, there's Karim Benzema but his contract expires at the end of the season so that would potentially open up an opportunity if he's not to be renewed for somebody to come in like Salah, especially given the eye watering figures that Benzema earns at Ittihad. In our conversations with the likes of Neom and Al Qadsia suggested there's, there's appetite on, on their part, there's finance, there's squad space. In the case of a club such as Kadsia, they're moving into a massive new stadium in 2026 which is going to be one of the World cup venues. Brendan Rodgers is in the process of being appointed as their new head coach. A story we reported on the Athletic the morning we record this. And so yeah, that, I mean let's see, Saudi Arabia won't be easy and in the past it's something that Mo Salah has seemingly not been so keen to do because he wanted to stay at Liverpool and, and certainly in Europe and competing in sort of for the biggest titles in European football, Premier League, Champions League, then there's elsewhere in Europe and, and you might look to say Italy and, and point out that they've got a record of signing old players. He's certainly not old judging by our age. And that would more come down to you imagine the finances of being able to fund the salary that he's on at the moment. There's always the possibility that he adapts and brings it down but that that's quite unusual in football. And then of course there Premier League. This is a player who's extremely happy and settled in the northwest of England, not far from where I'm speaking to you from now. His family like it and that that was a strong consideration in the renewal that he signed earlier this year. And then you start to look at the clubs and, and you think to yourself, well, he's only going to play at the very top level. And I'm not sure Liverpool would be interested in doing any business with Premier League clubs unless, you know, they or any club in their situation was desperate to get rid of him. So, you know, there seems consensus, I don't know how well informed it is that Saudi Arabia would be the direction of travel as and when he wants to or chooses to leave Liverpool, his contract expires or Liverpool deem him surplus to requirements. But we don't know that other than that interest is strong. So yeah, that's fair to say. I think that the likelihood is at the moment, despite the flare up that we saw and the uncertainty that he cast on his own future at the club and his own relationship with Arna Slot, maybe things were more emotionally driven at that point in time and certainly the dust appears to have settled somewhat. Even if it's being sort of described to us as a bit of an impasse, bit of a lack of progress, bit of a dead end that would be based on what Mo Salah wants to do. And perhaps if there is to be conversation over an exit, perhaps the right alternative does not arise for, for Liverpool, for Mo Salah and for all parties. The conversations so far I think have been sort of Ana Slot and Richard Hughes head coach and sporting director on Liverpool's behalf and then Ramy Abbas and Salah Abbas being Salah's agent on the player's behalf, you get the feeling that these conversations will continue. So therefore we can't give like certainty on how this, how this will end. But those are pretty much the options if a departure was to materialise. But the direction of travel certainly from Liverpool's perspective seems to be that at least for the rest of the season and certainly the January transfer window and you can never say never in football, but that he would still be at Anfield.

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You're listening to the Athletic FC Podcast with Ayo Akinwaleere.

Ayo Akinwaleere (30:53)

Well, Saturday's win over Brighton in the short term at least it's is Salah's last game for Liverpool and he's now off to join egg shift at afcon. So joining us now to add a little bit more context to that, the Egyptian perspective in particular is our tactics writer and a man, I've been told and I've seen it several times, has the best microphone in podcasting. We've got Ahmed Walid with us as well with a disco mic. Ahmed, good to have you with us. How are you, brother?

Ahmed Walid (31:18)

Hi, Ayo, how are you? It's great to be back.

Ayo Akinwaleere (31:20)

Yeah, really, really good. Appreciate you joining us. Let's talk about the Salah situation then and has it overshadowed the preparations for Egypt's Afghanistan Afghan.

Ahmed Walid (31:29)

Well, Egypt's Afghan propagations are in the shadow on their own because the Egyptian Premier League, so it's called the Egyptian Premier League, it stopped. And Egypt national team with the domestic players have been in a Camp since December 3 and the day after the incident at Ellen Road, December 7, it has been a closed camp since and the only game Egypt are going to play before the AFCON is Nigeria or tomorrow. So it has been in the shadows on their own. But obviously Salah will take the news regardless of what's happening around him and he's been all over the news what happened in Ellen Road, the exclusion from the Inter Milan game. So yeah, it overshadowed. But as I said, the Egyptian preparation for the AFCON is in the shadows on its own.

Ayo Akinwaleere (32:18)

I like that. James, what impacts do you think this break will have on. On both sides? In fact, I think mule, maybe David said it earlier that, you know, perhaps it's a wonderful time for reflection just to let settle. Does it feel like that? Just let's take a break and then we'll come back to this after AFCON is done.

James Pearce (32:33)

Yeah, yeah, that's definitely how it, it feels. I mean, from the people I spoke to back ender last week when the decision was taken to bring slot, bring slot, bring Salah back into the squad for, for the weekend that I think there was. There was also an acceptance that more discussions would have to take place over the coming days and weeks between Ramy Abbas, Salah's representative, and. And Richard Hughes, Liverpool sporting director. Because, you know, as. As David touched on before, you know, Liverpool want to lose Salah, but they also can't have this kind of situation rearing its ugly head again if when he comes back, he doesn't start the first three games that are back and that's why I understand what Arne Slot was saying on Saturday when he said, from my perspective, I don't see there's any issue to resolve. You know, it's now just he's just the same as any other player. But it's not as clear cut as that because the issue remains that Salah does not want to be a substitute. And currently Arne Slot does not see him as part of Liverpool's strongest line lineup. And they've put together this five game unbeaten run without him. Essentially he hasn't started any of those five games. Three wins, two draws. You know, we know why he's done it because he wanted to make Liverpool more compact, more difficult to play through. That's certainly been borne out with the performances and the results so far. So yeah, I think they're gonna. If Salah is gonna stay at Liverpool at least until the summer, then there has gonna have to be some acceptance on his part that he is, you know, at times gonna be sat on the bench and. And if that's the case, he can' acting like he did at Elland Road.

Ayo Akinwaleere (34:03)

Yeah, Ahmed, we know that, you know, Mo Salah doesn't often speak to the media, but in his words, if he speaks there, there might be fire or there will be fire. But any thoughts of him perhaps using AFCON to maybe air his grievances, speak to the press there and sort of have his own narrative from his standpoint?

Ahmed Walid (34:22)

I doubt because Salah rarely speaks in the media in general. It's not that he would speak in Afghan when it is Egypt versus speaking with Liverpool. I think he only speaks to the media when and he has a point to say or he's reacting to something. So I think it's a low probability. But I think he could speak on the field itself. I think what happened, and even without what happened at Elland Road and Salah's exclusion, Salah has a point to prove with Egypt because Salah is the best Egyptian, African and Arab player in history. But he hasn't fallen Afghan with Egypt and all the greatest Egyptian player, even Salah's coach right now, Hussam Hassan, have won the Afghanistan Afcon and Salah carried the Egyptian national team to the World cup in Russia in 2018. But winning the AFCON is major for him and especially right now he's 33. So we think that by the next AFCON when he's 35, he wouldn't be on the same level, I would assume.

Ayo Akinwaleere (35:18)

Well, I mean there's also a comparison here, David. In terms of being at the same level to Cristiano Ronaldo, a man who's grown old gracefully looking trim, looking amazing, still banging in goals, as they say. But is there also a comparison here to Ronaldo back in, in 2022, you know, Qatar World cup with Portugal, very similar to Salah heading off to afcon. Might his future be more certain after this tournament or through this tournament?

David Ornstein (35:43)

Yeah, well, firstly, on the comparisons, and I mean this more in a, in a playing sense. I went to quite a few of the Argentina games at the last World cup in Qatar, and Lionel Messi was nowhere near as mobile for them on the pitch as he was in his previous years. A lot of the time in front of me, I noticed he would just walk for long periods of the match and then contribute when needed. And there was a memorable game against Mexico where he just popped up and got the winning goal and was the hero and it continued their charge towards the title. And it was his trophy really, wasn't it? And nobody really now talks about how he played at that tournament. And I was at Inter Miami's MLS cup final recently that they won against Vancouver Whitecaps. And you know, he's certainly running, running what appears, I don't know the exact stats, but running less than, than he was before. And, and you mentioned the Ronaldo situation, so. So Salah, he clearly can still impact heavily as other greats of the game have shown, but they'll need to be some adaptation on his part. And as James points out, maybe that sort of is not his way of thinking at the time that he made his comments after Leeds. But if he's going to stay and if Liverpool are going to keep him and that, that might have to be the way. We should get some sort of clarity, you would imagine, before the, the AFCON finishes. Because whether he talks or reports emerge or whether either party sort of gives any guidance on where they're up to or interested parties show their hand, then no doubt there will be some moments over the next month or so that that brings Salah's future back into the news. I guess you won't get definitive clarity until that transfer window closes and Liverpool expect him to stay. Which is why when you look up the market, we've been reporting about players like Antoine Semenya at Bournemouth, for example, who Liverpool have, like many clubs got an admiration for, it doesn't mean they're going to sign him. You get pushback. Liverpool seem to be suggesting they're actually right now that as things stand, they're not going to be doing anything in January, whether it be into the club or out again, that can change. We been through the center back process with them last summer and how Mark A didn't come in in the end and Leone suffered an injury and many people feel that somewhere Liverpool need to strengthen in the winter. But you know, when things are good there, that doesn't seem to be such a pressing concern. And consensus right now from Anfield is that nothing in or out. And so that would indicate that yeah, you know, Salah is part of their plans going forward and they see him playing a very useful role post January. And then of course things will quieten down until at least the summer comes round and then maybe it becomes a topic again. But I think Liverpool are desperate really for some closure and calm around this after what's been a bit of a crazy period by their standards in terms of him as an individual, but also the broader context of how tumultuous their season has been so far.

Ayo Akinwaleere (38:47)

Okay, David, we'll let you go. Appreciate your time as always, sir.

David Ornstein (38:49)

Pleasure. Thanks guys.

Ayo Akinwaleere (38:53)

Yeah, James Ahmed spoke about how Salah could do his talking on the pitch for Egypt to afcon. I mean I can only be a great thing for Liverpool if he comes back firing with enough controversy. You've got a different kind of mo salah surely 100.

James Pearce (39:06)

Yeah, that will be the hope for, for Arna Slot and Richard Hughes that yeah, he goes and has an outstanding tournament, lights the place up is you know, finally as Ahmed said, you know, finally gets that kind of off his back in terms of, you know, winning that, that big trophy with Egypt that the nation craves and then you want that to act as a SP springboard for the rest of the season. So yeah, I think, you know the, the flip side of that is of course for a lot of Liverpool fans they'll be concerned about, you know, you just want to see him come back fit as well. You don't want, you know, of course, you know, the, I think it was the Ahmed might put me right but it was at the last AFCON where he got injured and that kind of. He never, he never really found his feet again in the, the second half of the season. He would, he kind of that, that set him back. So you, you hope that a change of scenery helps and the, you know, there's so, so much responsibility on his shoulders, isn't it? You know, carrying the hopes of a nation in, in the way he will do over the coming weeks. But yeah, certainly at Liverpool, you know, I spoke to Virgil Van Dijk after the game on Saturday and he just said, you know, I've told him, you know, I really hope that you have an outstanding afcon and I want to see you back here middle of January with that trophy ready to help us kick on and achieve big things at Liverpool. Liverpool in the second half of the season.

Ayo Akinwaleere (40:19)

Yeah. You do forget how much of a weight this is for Mo Saleh if he's going to be the greatest Egyptian player of all time. Ahmed, I mean he naturally is. But without the trophy there will always be question. Right. Are you surprised from a tactical perspective just how much less influence he's had at Liverpool this time around and probably not the best time in heading into, you know, an AFCON tournament.

Ahmed Walid (40:42)

Yes and no. Yes, because this season isn't Salah's normal level for a variety of reasons including his personal drop off. But also no, because Liverpool as a collective have been I think since the start of the season, even with the run of five games, they are not at the same level as a collective on and off the ball. And then after a while you see that Liverpool are trying to play with a new approach that includes the new players like Florian Wirtz, Hugo ikitiki, Alexander Isak, etc. Etc. With new players coming in, adapting and also the injuries, especially to Jeremy Frimpong. So the team was trying to find a new approach that includes Salah. Then when things were not going well, obviously Slot tried to find solutions and then he benched Salah and trying to find those solutions. I don't think Liverpool have reached the answer yet even with or without Salah. So it's still still a collective and individual issue. And I think if you, if you look overall the, the only players who have been at the level at Liverpool this season, probably Soboslay and Hoku Ekiteki and maybe to an extent Ryan Gravenberg. So it's not only Salah has dropped off, most of the players have dropped off. So I think the answer is yes and no. Basically.

Ayo Akinwaleere (42:01)

What about his role he plays for, for Egypt? Because you know, we, we know how important he is for this team. You know, this time around of course the goals will be shared with players like Mamouch for instance in the past maybe Trez was, was that player. How different is his role at Egypt versus his role in Liverpool?

Ahmed Walid (42:19)

I think in Egypt Salah is more of a creator like we saw last season with Liverpool. He has on the, the creative mantle more. All the ball goes through him and only him. And mainly Egypt attacks through the wide areas, through him. On the right and Marmush on the left. And also it helps Salah that recently the number 8. So Egypt player 4 3, the number 8 who plays on the right side. Ahmad Sayyid Zizu who plays for El Ahli is more of an offensive player. So it helps Rah to drop off and play more in more central zones versus what he does with Liverpool.

David Ornstein (42:52)

So.

Ahmed Walid (42:53)

But mainly it's a more of a free role for him.

Ayo Akinwaleere (42:56)

Okay, can Egypt win afcon? Come on, let the people know.

Ahmed Walid (43:00)

The heart says yes, but the mind begs to differ.

James Pearce (43:05)

It's always the way.

Ahmed Walid (43:06)

Yeah, I think the question with Egypt is we don't know the level of this team because since Afcon, the only decent or half decent teams Egypt have played are Croatia and Burkina Faso. So they lost to Croatia. It was Hossam Hassan's second game, it was a friendly and they beat Burkina Faso in Egypt and then drew with them nil, nil away. But otherwise it has mainly been teams who play Egypt with a low defensive block and Egypt have the ball like 60, 70% possession of the ball. So we don't know the level of Egypt.

Ayo Akinwaleere (43:39)

Okay, does your heart say yes, but your mind says no for top four for Liverpool this season? James, come on. Before we go.

James Pearce (43:49)

I think both heart and head says top four for Liverpool now. I think. I don't think anyone's getting too carried away off the back of two wins and two clean sheets. But there are promising signs and more than anything, the new. The new players starting to settle and really adapt and find their feet. Kirk has Wirtz, especially again on the weekend and Ekatike has been the pick of them. Yeah, just need to get Isaac firing. That's the next thing in Arna slots in tray. If he can do that, then top four won't be a problem.

Ayo Akinwaleere (44:18)

All right, let's leave you there, gents. Ahmed and James, appreciate your time and also thanks to David for joining us a little earlier and also thank you guys for listening. We'll be back soon.

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