Loading summary
Transcript105 lines
- [00:02]
Ad Voice 1
Right now you're probably listening to this
- [00:04]
Ad Voice 2
podcast on a wireless network.
- [00:06]
Ad Voice 1
The same wireless network you use for
- [00:07]
Ad Voice 2
all your swiping, scrolling and Athletic FC streaming. But if you're a first responder, you shouldn't have to compete with myvoice to get a clear signal. That's why there's FirstNet, a clear wireless lane built with and just for first responders. So in an emergency, first responders get there first. Because a network that's not just for anyone helps everyone. To learn more, go to firstnet.com or visit an AT&T store for details.
- [00:36]
Aramco Advertiser
What if a marginal gain unlocked greater performance? What if an insight in data could change everything? At Aramco, our focus on detail helps us deliver reliable energy to millions across the world. Because margins aren't marginal, they're where we can truly push the limits of what's possible. Aramco, an integrated energy and chemicals company. Learn more@aramco.com.
- [01:10]
Ad Voice 1
This episode of the Athletic FC is
- [01:12]
Ad Voice 2
brought to you by Hotels.com when you're booking a hotel, here's a simple question. Why wouldn't you use hotels.com it really is all in the name.
- [01:21]
Ad Voice 1
As a member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels
- [01:24]
Ad Voice 2
around the world and earn rewards on every single stay.
- [01:27]
Ad Voice 1
Which means the trips you're taking now
- [01:29]
Ad Voice 2
help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about.
- [01:31]
Ad Voice 1
And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates.
- [01:34]
Ad Voice 2
So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go.
- [01:38]
Ad Voice 1
So whether you're planning a grand adventure to follow your national team around North America this summer, or whisking your special someone away for an escape because you've
- [01:45]
Ad Voice 2
been glued to the football for weeks, make sure to book@hotels.com and start earning rewards. Because when it comes to hotels, it's simple. Hotels.com it's all in the name.
- [02:01]
Adam Leventhal
The Athletic fc. Hi there and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Adam Levanthal. So, after ending the season 18 games unbeaten, Andoni Iriola leaves Bournemouth with Europa League football to come. But without a job lined up. Has he left the cherries too soon? Well, alongside me for this one, John McKenzie and Jack Pitt Brook slightly warm, still in the UK, slightly red faced all of us, so bear with us on this one. Bournemouth, after all their hard work this season, finished sixth, giving them Europa League football. It was very nearly Champions League football could have been on the last day. John, first to you. It is remarkable considering where they were, what, just under 20 years ago.
- [02:52]
John McKenzie
Yeah, 2008 in League Two. Very close to actually dropping out of the English leagues altogether. So yeah, an incredible turn of events and you know, I mean we say 20 years but it was only the point at which Iriola arrived where they narrowly avoided relegation from the Premier League. And it was quite a controversial appointment at the time because Gary o' Neill had saved them from relegation and then they made the decision to bring in Iriola and yeah, I guess the rest is history.
- [03:21]
Adam Leventhal
And Jack, obviously they had a say in the title race as well. They beat Arsenal back in April, then they held Manchester City to that one all draw which secured the title for Arsenal. How much have you enjoyed watching them this season?
- [03:34]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
I love watching them play. I think they've got so much energy, they've got such a clear idea about what the manager wants to do. They, I think their style is quite distinctive relative to other Premier League teams. I think John would probably be able to explain that better than me. But it's just always great watching a team where the players have a real conviction and belief about whatever the manager's ideas are and you can see how much buy in Iriola's managed to get from that squad over the years and yeah, it makes them a joy to watch.
- [04:03]
Adam Leventhal
Define that distinctive approach John then.
- [04:05]
John McKenzie
It's funny you know, because I think everyone focuses on Iriola's out of possession approach and I think, you know, rightly so but actually I've heard him say that he thinks that his out of possession approach is slightly overrated and his in possession approach is slightly underrated. And I think the story of his time in the Premier League is very much one of imposing that out of possession style. That's a non negotiable obviously famously taking a little time getting that going at Bournemouth and you know, the fundamentals of that style are to have this sort of hybrid approach to defending where at times you're going to jump up really aggressive man to man and try and destabilize the opponent while they're trying to build up but then having the ability to retain enough structure that if the press is broken you can drop into a, into a block no problem. That's the sort of fundamentals of the out of possession approach. But in time I think we've seen his in possession approach develop increasingly through I suppose introduction of different types of profiles of players. But I think it's been very clear to me that he has constantly tried to innovate his in possession approach because I guess the difficulty is, is that his approach as I've said, is based around creating chaos to an extent. And we've just come out of a period of, you know, maybe 15 years in European football where possession control has been the dominant approach. If you can control the game with the ball, and to an extent, without the ball, then you're very likely to come out on top. What we've started seeing, actually, is coaches like Iraola destabilizing that for the elite sides and creating more chaotic games, which means, on the one hand, yeah, it's great because you're pulling other teams down to your level, but on the other hand, it does become harder to control the ball yourself. And the big question with someone like Iriola is, how do you start flipping the. Or changing the needle the other direction, where you're like, now we have to start trying to control the games with the ball at some points as well. So we've definitely seen that happening. I think they play a very often a very direct style of football, but they have introduced elements of more possession control as time has gone on. They've got different kinds of profiles of players who've helped them do that. So it's been a really fascinating few years just watching Aiola develop, and I think I'm really excited to see where that next step takes him, because he'll probably have to do that again because he'll probably arrive at a more elite side where they'll be expected to dominate possession and games more.
- [06:18]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, and we'll concentrate on where's next for him in a moment. But in terms of what's next for Bournemouth, Marco Rose, who used to manage at RB Leipzig, is coming in. Is it going to be really difficult for him to match what Iriola is doing, or can he just simply pick up the baton?
- [06:36]
John McKenzie
Yeah, it's an interesting question. I mean, Marco Rose is from the Red Bull School, and to an extent, there's. It makes sense why they would have gone in that direction, I think, because there are elements of a similarity between that Red Bull approach and what Iraola is doing. So, again, that approach is about destabilizing opponents and having aggressive pressing, counter pressing, and using that as an attacking tool as well. So it definitely makes sense that they've gone that kind of route. I'm interested to see how Rose does. I think in some of his recent appointments, he struggled a little bit. Not least, I think working in certain dressing rooms, which will be interesting. I mean, I think the Bournemouth dressing room would be perfectly easy for him to work in, but I am kind of interested to see how he performs, and I think you know, there is a narrative out there that a lot of the best work that Rosa did was when he had Rene Maric as his assistant. Now Rene Maric is at Bayern Munich and there's some people who feel as though there was a bit of a drop off once they parted ways as a manager, assistant manager, combo. So I think it'll be interesting to see, to see what he does and yeah, my massive shoes to be standing in as well. So I think that will be a big question too, like how well will he be able to reproduce the sorts of things that Iraola is doing? Because yeah, there's an expectation of Bournemouth now that this team is a competitive
- [07:52]
Adam Leventhal
winning team and Jack, they know how to show patience at Bournemouth. They certainly did that with six defeats and three draws in his, his opening nine games. So for Rosa, you know, he should get, given that time just to adapt.
- [08:08]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Yeah, you'd like to think so. I think that's the benefit of having, having a very strategic board who are able to, to kind of weather the noise if it, if a manager starts, if a manager doesn't start a job particularly well. I think Iriola was obviously a huge, a huge beneficiary of that and I think that's one of the, that's one of the strengths of clubs like, you know, if you're looking at reasons that say Bournemouth and Brighton and Brentford have maybe got a bit of an edge over some of the traditionally bigger teams, is that the board I think is able to withstand moments of pressure and difficult starts to a season and keep their eyes on the long term prize and maybe they're slightly less exposed to the pressures of kind of fan and media opinion as well in that. But I think that that decision to stay patient at the start of the Iriola era was obviously totally vindicated by the outcome.
- [08:56]
Adam Leventhal
And John, in terms of Iriola dealing with a loss of players and a churn of players when you lose the likes of Howson, Zabanyi, Kirkz, Ouattara, then later midway through the season, Semenyo, but you then continue to exceed expectations and you show the progress that the club wanted. They went from what, 15th, 12th, ninth in his first season, now sixth. Is that the club operating well or is that Iriola in particular being able to deal with the cards that he's been dealt better than anyone?
- [09:32]
John McKenzie
Yeah, I mean, I think there's plenty of coaches who, if they were dealt the same hands, would have struggled a lot more than Aureola has done. And I think this is something that's worth talking about because I think whenever anyone asks me about Areola, it's always like, what are his unique tactics? What is it that he's getting the team to do? But coaching is obviously much, much broader than that. There's a lot of diverse skills required by a coach, and I think Iraola is elite in that respect in a number of ways. I think one of them is that if you look at the players that he's taken and developed and improved with this system, it's remarkable. I mean, we mentioned Zabanyi there. He went off to psg. Dean Howson went off to Real Madrid. He's producing, okay, these are players who the recruitment department are doing a good job with, but he is taking those players. Dean Howson played a season and was deemed Real Madrid ready. So there's that the ability to take these players and improve them, which, you know, is a fundamental aspect to modern elite football, especially given the amount of money that is thrown around in the game. But the other thing I think is that he's a coach. He takes players, puts them together into a group that works, and they win. And I think that's a really undervalued aspect of coaching in these days, right, where the assumption is, well, you need to have the best players. You need to, you know, you need to have a huge amount of external luck. I think every season he's lost players, rebuilt that team, and they've. They've come out arguably better. I think this is this last iteration where they lost the whole back line effectively, and the goalkeeper. And as we said, Semenya was. Was probably the best iteration of the lot. So I think that's also worth saying, and I think in many respects, he could be the premier option on the market for a club who want a coach, who will simply be a coach and won't worry too much about the managerial aspects. And I think in that respect, he's. He's often quite undervalued because the difficulty of these coaches is often that, you know, they. They consider what they're doing in terms of a career trajectory, a career arc, and you have to sort of balance those competing interests off against one another. Whereas the impression I get with. With Iriola is that the thing that you're going to be balancing off with him is going to be on my. Are my family happy? Is this the best thing for. For my children, et cetera? And I think, you know, maybe that's a glib thing to point out, but I think when you have someone with that kind of Attitude where the ability to delegate, I think is incredibly important in that respect. And again, we could talk about the fact that when he arrived in Bournemouth he was only able to bring his fitness coach with him and the rest of his coaching staff didn't arrive. He brought Inigo Perez with him, but he didn't get a work permit. So he ended up going back and having a really fantastic season with Rayo Vallecano this season. But the rest of his coaching staff was just made up of basically Bournemouth footballing legends, your Tommy Elix, your Shawn Coopers, your Simon Francis, etc. And in that respect, you know, that's a remarkable turn of events as well. So, yeah, I think that what you're getting if you're bringing in Iraol is not just an innovative sort of tactical guy, it's someone who actually will make a group of players function, make the group of players be better than the sum of their parts, improve those players and you know, that's just a dream for a lot of these clubs.
- [12:33]
Adam Leventhal
So let's work out where is potentially going to be best for him to go. Before we do that, quick answer like yes or no. Is he right to be moving from Bournemouth now for his career trajectory? John? Yes, Jack, yes, thank you. Because obviously the big clubs have been looking at him. Chelsea and Manchester United sounded him out before they respectively appointed Xabi Alonso, Michael Carrick. So would you say that Andoni Iriola is the hottest prospect in coaching right now?
- [13:05]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Yeah, I would. I think that the combination of having a, having a distinct cutting edge style of play, that is huge. The fact that he has been, it has been proven to work not just in Spain but in the Premier League. Getting Bournemouth to sixth in the Premier League is, is a, is a fantastic achievement, even independent of the manner of the football and the style of play. And I think also the fact that like the fact of being a free agent as well, clubs don't want to pay transfer fees for managers. They don't want to try and extricate a manager from a job. They want someone who they can just sign. So I think if you put those three things together, the style of play, the fact that his style is proven in the Premier League and he's on the market, I think that is just three really big ticks on top of that. He's also like a really, I mean, John was talking earlier about how he worked with the staff at Bournemouth. He is like an incredibly popular, likable person in a way that I think people really, really warm to him. So many modern Managers have a bit of a megalomaniac tendency. Iriola does not in the slightest. And I think that really appeals to people as well. So I think that for all those reasons, I think he is the hottest property on the market as well. I'm sure John might pipe up and say, well, technically, Pep Guardiola is a free agent now, and that is, and that is of course, literally true. And the one other thing which is worth getting on here is that Iriola is still fairly young. Like, he's only had, what, two big managerial jobs. He's definitely, he has that thing which a lot of clubs want, which is he feels like he's still in the kind of upward phase of his career. You're not getting someone whose best achievements were 5, 10, 15 years ago. And that is hugely attractive as well to clubs.
- [14:50]
John McKenzie
It's maybe worth saying as well, that we're undergoing at the moment what I think is a bit of a tactical revolution across European football. You know, in many respects it's hard to know where things will end up going, but I think you can make the argument that Iraola is at the forefront of that tactical revolution. And so as a result, the thing that I always come up against when people ask me about the future of Iriola is can he do it at a big club? Is he, isn't he just a lower club, sort of underdog football manager? And how will he survive at these big clubs? But I think what we're seeing in modern football is a shift towards these more direct, chaotic, high pressing approaches. And I think there's an argument to be made that, you know, if you get, if you get this right, then there's a potential trajectory of, for Iriola, where he does something like klopp, where he goes to a bigger club and is able to sort of evolve his approach to have, yes, okay, maybe still chaos at the forefront, but still enough control that you can challenge right at the top of the European game. So I think a lot of clubs maybe won't be thinking in those terms, but I think it could be an unintended consequence of someone picking him up.
- [15:54]
Podcast Announcer
This is the Athletic FC podcast with Adam Levanthal.
- [16:02]
Ad Voice 1
Right now, you're probably listening to this
- [16:04]
Ad Voice 2
podcast on a wireless network, the same
- [16:06]
Ad Voice 1
wireless network you use for all your
- [16:08]
Ad Voice 2
swiping, scrolling and Athletic FC streaming. But if you're a first responder, you shouldn't have to compete with myvoice to get a clear signal. That's why there's FirstNet, a clear wireless lane built with and just for first responders. So in an emergency, first responders get there first because a network that's not just for anyone helps everyone. To learn more, go to firstnet.com or visit an AT&T store for details.
- [16:36]
Stamps.com Advertiser
Still waiting in line Again, that's time you will never get back. Save time and money with stamps.com over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with stamps.com join them to save up to 90% off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail and packages in seconds. Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply.
- [17:06]
Boost Mobile Advertiser
Traffic may be locked, but savings isn't. Unlock the savings at Boost Mobile with unlimited wireless for just $25 a month forever. No contracts, no hikes, and you keep your phone. Unlock the savings@boostmobile.com Unlock $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Unlimited Wireless plan. For full details, visit boostmobile.com.
- [17:27]
Adam Leventhal
Well, let's talk about the potential options then. And obviously some of these clubs have managers in situ and they may not make any change, so it may well be irrelevant. But he's currently the favorite with the bookies to be the next Crystal Palace, Newcastle and Liverpool manager. He's also been linked with AC Milan by Leverkusen as well. Have I left anyone out there, John, that you think is more of a likely option?
- [17:52]
John McKenzie
I don't think so, no. I mean, I'm sure what's happening right now is that Iriola is just listening to options. He seems to be pretty happy to hear teams present their projects to him and see what will happen. So I'm sure there will be teams that will be added to that group because he seems pretty open to just exploring all the possibilities.
- [18:08]
Adam Leventhal
But in terms, and you mentioned a point there in terms of, you know, he could go and do a Klopp at a big club. Klopp was able to do that because potentially, yes, because of his football, but also because of his personality. Have you seen enough nuance, John, in Iriola's personality to be able to grab hold of a big club like that and lead them maybe not necessarily by his ebullient personality, but by the way that his teams play.
- [18:41]
John McKenzie
Yeah, and look, I'm no expert on personality, as my friends always point out to me, but yeah, personality has plenty of different, different levels, right? Yes. On the one hand you've got Klopp, who's I think a real motivator of fan bases. And, and as you've said, the style of football is, is an incredible motivator of football fans. You know, this season Arsenal have been fantastic. I've been in the Emirates Stadium and heard their fans booing and you know, okay, that's not just, that's not just a style of plaything. That's a, okay, are we going to finish second again? But I think style of play is a really important part of the process of actually winning fan bases over. But at the same time, you know, a coach's personality is as much about getting everyone at the club on board, pulling in the, in the right direction. And I think, yes, I agree that on the sidelines Iraola doesn't, doesn't come across, you know, in the same way as a Klopp. I also think in post match press conferences like you will never find him criticizing his club, criticizing his players. Just a very, very humble guy who's, who's happy to, you know, give the credit to everyone around him. And I think that counts for something as well. Yes, I do think that you're right to point out that big clubs often have their fans have an expectation about how a manager should come across, personality wise. But I don't see any reason why it couldn't work for him, especially if, as we've said, he has success in his football. Because at the end of the day, that's what people love.
- [20:00]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah. What do you think on that, Jack? Because you know, John, mentioning there, you know, he might not be the most sort of explosive person in press conferences. We've seen Manchester United appoint Michael Carrick not solely because he's not explosive in press conferences, but because he reduces the level of noise around a big football club. And that is of benefit, isn't it?
- [20:20]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
It is of benefit. I do think that this is the kind of one issue I would, or the one question mark I would have about Iraola going to a really big club is that I think that if you're going to manage a big, if you're going to manage a huge club, I think that there are certain expectations about how you carry yourself in public and the things that you say in public and your ability to, with your ability to withstand a lot of pressure and scrutiny, but also your ability to speak to thousands, maybe even millions of fans out there who are hanging on your every word and the requirement of being the public face of the institution for a club that size that can be, that can really weigh down on people and some people are cut out for it. And Some people aren't. And I think there's been a lot of good examples in recent years of very, very good managers who have had to become the public face for a huge institution and it just hasn't worked out for them. So, like Roy Hodgson at Liverpool, David Moyes at Manchester United, Graham Potter at Chelsea, you could even say Thomas Frank at Tottenham this season. Now, I'm sure in all those cases, there were like, there were footballing issues as well. There were footballing reasons why they weren't good. But I do think that there are some managers who just, I think, understand the expectations, understand. Understand the responsibility, understand what they have to say to get the fans to buy into them, to present a clear narrative to the public about what they're trying to achieve and to get the players to buy into them, too. And I just. I'm not saying that Iriola can't do that, but I'm saying I would be curious to see how Iriola handles that element of the job, that element of managing a huge club, because it can be really hard.
- [21:58]
Adam Leventhal
So let's move on to where you think would be best for him. Jack, go on. You go first on this. Where would you like to see him? Where do you think? Actually, that's a nice step up for him.
- [22:09]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
As someone who watches mainly Premier League football, my honest answer to this is I'd be very curious to see him at Liverpool. I think Liverpool is the most interesting. Although clearly from everything we're reading and seeing and hearing, it sounds at the moment like their position is to stick with Arna Slot. Even. You know, I don't want to get into like arguing about whether or not Arna Slot is good or bad on this podcast because that's been done elsewhere. But I think that that is seemingly Liverpool hierarchy's position at the moment. I would be fascinated to see Raola there. But if that's not going to be the case, I'm not really sure. I'm not really sure another move for him in England makes sense. Like, Bournemouth came sixth last year. I know he's been linked with other Premier League teams. He's been linked with Crystal Palace, Newcastle United. But Bournemouth are better than those teams. Just look at the league table. So I'm not sure whether. I'm not sure how much sense that would actually make for him. I think in terms of what might suit his sort of steady career progression better rather than jumping straight into the Anfield hot seat. Been a lot of talk about Bayer Leverkusen, and I think Bayer Leverkusen if you look at, say, Xabi Alonso, you can see that this is a club which can be very strategic, which can give a good manager the chance to embed his ideas over time with access to some pretty good players. And maybe he would look at Xabi Alonso going from Bayer Leverkusen, winning the lot, going to Real Madrid, and think, actually, maybe that is the next step, rather than going all the way up to one of the super clubs already.
- [23:35]
Adam Leventhal
John, wouldn't he have been best served sticking with Bournemouth and proving that he can do it in the Europa League and be able to sort of straddle both competitions, albeit he did manage earlier on in his career in Cyprus, but now he's at the peak of his powers. Wasn't this sort of made perfectly for him? Or do you think he's actually timed his run perfectly? And there are lots of opportunities, you know, we don't know if Fulham might come up for grabs, for example, that might be considered a nice next step up, perhaps.
- [24:04]
John McKenzie
Yeah, I mean, I think he made the decision to move on far earlier than the end of the season. Right. So there wasn't at that point any guarantee that Bournemouth would even get European football. So I think in that respect, he's making this decision on other considerations. It's also worth saying, you know, he has a good chance of being at another club who have European football by the end of the summer, so it's worth keeping that in mind. And, yeah, you know, I think there's a degree of risk staying with Bournemouth. Right. And going through the Europa League. We've seen a lot of teams in the Premier League in recent seasons go into these European competitions and not have good performances in the league itself. And I think there's still the possibility that that could. Could throw you. So, yeah, I think just to come back to what Jack was saying before, I think the. The stepping stone approach is probably the best one for him. If he goes to a Leverkusen or he goes to a Milan, I think he'll have the space in those leagues to be a little bit more experimental. He'll have the space to develop aspects of his game that he still needs to develop. He's not the finished product. And, you know, we talked about Klopp before, and Klopp had that period at Dortmund where he was able to, you know, develop from the coach that he was at Mainz, for example. And I think this would be a kind of comparative step for Iriola. I think he would be very competitive both in the Bundesliga and Serie A. It would give him A space, I think, to be able to experiment a little bit more with maybe playing a slightly different brand of football. You can't do that in the Premier League. It's just a completely unforgiving league. We've just come out of a season where, you know, anyone can beat anyone. It's a brutal league and, and the expectation is if you don't have success immediately then, then you, you're, you're somehow not a good manager. We've seen Arna Slot go from oh, what an incredible coach winning the league in his first season to, to everyone questioning whether or not he has any sort of managerial credentials. And it's, it's, you know, such a high, high level of pressure in that league. So I personally would like to see him going to, to one of these other clubs where he can develop his, his game a bit.
- [26:02]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
One further point on the timing of his departure, like, I don't want to, I don't want to sound like I'm, I'm undermining or begrudging his achievement this season, But Bournemouth played 40 games this season. They got knocked straight out of both domestic cup competitions. And if you have a 40 game season that's obviously going to massively boost your league position, right, because the players will simply be less tired and particularly if you play a really physic, really physically demanding, physically intense style of play like he does at the moment. Bournemouth next year goes straight into the Europa League League phase. That means they have a, that's. There's eight games in the Europa League League phase. That means Bournemouth will be playing a minimum of 48 games next season. But if they progress in the League cup, the FA Cup, Europa League, that could well be going all the way through the 50s, maybe into the 60s. That is going to be such a change to what the players are used to. And I think it would present such challenges to Iriola trying to play that intense style of play twice a week, every week, doing those constant Thursday Sunday turnarounds, which is not something they've had to deal with this season. I think that has to be borne in mind when we're thinking about why, like whether or not it makes sense for him to jump off the ship. Now.
- [27:12]
Ad Voice 1
This episode of the Athletic FC is
- [27:14]
Ad Voice 2
brought to you by Hotels.com. when you're booking a hotel, here's a simple question. Why wouldn't you use hotels.com? it really is all in the name.
- [27:23]
Ad Voice 1
As a member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels
- [27:27]
Ad Voice 2
around the world and earn rewards on every single stay.
- [27:30]
Ad Voice 1
Which means the trips you're taking now
- [27:31]
Ad Voice 2
help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your
- [27:38]
Podcast Announcer
rewards are ready to go.
- [27:40]
Ad Voice 1
So whether you're planning a grand adventure to follow your national team around North America this summer, or whisking your special someone away for an escape because you've
- [27:47]
Ad Voice 2
been glued to the football for weeks, make sure to book@hotels.com and start earning rewards. Because when it comes to hotels, it's simple. Hotels.com it's all in the name.
- [28:04]
Felix Salmon
This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. This is Felix Salmon from Slate Money and I'm here to tell you about Apple Card. Even as a seasoned traveler, things can still get stressful, which is why I use Apple Card on my international trips. And and with 2% daily cash back on every purchase with Apple Pay, I'm actually earning daily cash as I travel. Instead of coming home feeling like I've drained my bank account, I come back with cash back I can put toward my next trip. Apply in the Wallet app on iPhone subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch terms and more at Apple Co AppleCard benefit.
- [28:49]
Child
Mom, can you tell me a story?
- [28:50]
Mother
Sure. Once upon a time, a mom needed a new car.
- [28:53]
Child
Was she brave?
- [28:54]
Mother
She was tired mostly, but she went to Carvana.com and found a great car at a great price. No secret treasure map required.
- [29:00]
Child
Did you have to find a dragon?
- [29:02]
Mother
Nope. She bought it 100% online from her bed, actually.
- [29:05]
Child
Was it scary?
- [29:06]
Mother
Honey, it was as unscary as car buying could be.
- [29:09]
Child
Did the car have a sunroof?
- [29:10]
Mother
It did, actually.
- [29:11]
Child
Okay, good story.
- [29:13]
Mother
Car buying you'll want to tell stories about. Buy your car today on delivery fees may apply.
- [29:25]
Podcast Announcer
This is the Athletic FC podcast with Adam Leventhal.
- [29:29]
Adam Leventhal
I wanted to get both of your thoughts on this. It's away from Iriola and Bournemouth, but it is linked to one of the players that is central to that engine room at the vitality, and that is Tyler Adams, who's been named, of course, in the US Men's National Team 26 man squad for this summer's World Cup. They had their big announcement. There was a little bit of controversy over, you know, players getting a head up too early and players missing out, being disgruntled. We've seen it with other squads as well. Harry Maguire, for example, with England. But concentrating on Tyler Adams, first of all, John, obviously no surprise to see him in that side but how much can he make an international team tick as well as he does with Bournemouth?
- [30:18]
John McKenzie
Yeah, it's a good, it's a good question. I think it'll be fundamental for this US team. It is maybe worth saying that he's been, you know, he got injured sort of midway through the last season and hasn't really made a massive comeback in the period since then. I think that's always a difficult thing to do right when you're coming in right at the end of the season, your team is, and let's not forget they had that run of 18 unbeaten Bournemouth in the Premier League this season. And as Iraola likes to point out, actually if you look at it, when they played teams a second time, they actually went on invincible in the second half of the season. They didn't lose to all 19 teams in the second games of that run. So I think with that in mind, it was always going to be tricky for him to break in, but he's been a fundamental player for them because I think he offers a profile that they don't really have outside of him. They have plenty of midfield talent, they have their Alex Scott, they have Ryan Christie, players like that. Marcus Tavernier is filled in, Lewis Cook has filled in, Alex Toth was brought in from French Varros earlier in the season. But they don't really have a profile like Tyler Adams who's a break play down, recycle a ball. And in games where they needed to have maybe a little bit more steel in the midfield, he's been absolutely fundamental. So yeah, I expect him to be very important for this US team. I think again, in a team which doesn't have a huge amount of options in that area, particularly from a defensive point of view. So yeah, he'll be, he'll be a mainstay for them, I expect.
- [31:41]
Adam Leventhal
And Jack, obviously, you know, the headlines from the squad were that Christian Pulisic is obviously in there, Weston McKenney, the big names, Tyler Adams as well, as we've mentioned a few surprise omissions in there as well, which we'll discuss in, in a moment's time. But just focusing on someone that you know well, having covered him at Tottenham in particular, Maurizio Pochettino leading that, that U.S. side. Are you intrigued to see how he fares in this tournament? Not only because it's a big tournament but that there is extra pressure because he is leading one of the co hosts?
- [32:16]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Oh, it's huge pressure. I mean the eyes of the world are going to be on him and when it all kicks off, you know, for those US games in la, the cameras of the world will be there watching Pochettino on the sidelines and it's a huge. Yeah, it's a huge pressure and responsibility coaching a host nation at a World Cup. I think that I feel like they turned the corner a bit in the last year or so. Obviously pretty choppy when he started and the results weren't always great. And it's, it's kind of, it can be a bit of a challenge to connect with the, with the football public, but at home. But you know, I, I kind of like to think that things have turned a bit of a corner and yeah, I think that the, the kind of the grand stage of. The grand stage of the World cup will really appeal to him. You know, Pochino is a very romantic guy. He's obviously played in World cup with Argentina. Has great memories growing up watching Maradona winning the World cup and everything. And I think that kind of the romance and history and tradition of the World cup really means a lot to him and I think that's why ultimately he's in the role.
- [33:16]
Adam Leventhal
How do you assess their chances, Jon? Because, I mean, they've got quite a nice looking group to start off with. Paraguay, Australia and Turkey. I remember last year I traveled over to the States, saw them in the Nations League and they weren't good at all, but they have sort of picked up here and there. They've had a few results that have caught the eye. They beat Uruguay, but on the whole they've not really been sort of surprising lots of people by bringing some huge results going into this tournament. So it's a little bit unknown to know how they're going to do it. And I suppose you get that when you don't have that many competitive games.
- [33:57]
John McKenzie
Yeah. And the other unknown is the structure of the tournament. Right. This is a structure format of the tournament that we've not seen before. I don't think there's probably been any tournament where it's been easier to get out of your groups technically because the best place, third place teams will end up going through into knockout stages. So I wasn't anticipating this question before we started recording. So I've sort of been back of a fag pack eating like trying to work out what's going on here. What I, what's really standing out to me is that like, you know, if you finish top of their group, you then have like a potential like 16 different teams that it could feasibly be. Right. So if you finish first, you have Less certainty about what's going to happen than if you've. Sorry. If they finish third, they're probably going to play Portugal. That's almost guaranteed. Right. When you look at the Portuguese, Portuguese group, then if they finish second, they've got a good chance of coming up against a team like Egypt, Iran, New Zealand, assuming Belgium come, come top of group G. So if they come second or third, you have a sort of good idea of what they're going to do if they come first. There's three different potential groups where the third place team they could come up against and you know, there's a, you know there's teams in there like Japan, Sweden, potentially Norway, Senegal. These are tough teams. So there's a, there's a degree of uncertainty about where they might end up going if they finish first in that group. I think you would make the argument that actually finishing second is probably going to be the best option for them because they will come up against, as I've said, one of Egypt, Iran or New Zealand if Belgium win that group, as you would expect. So it looks to me like that's, that's probably going to be their, not only their easiest group but also the one, the easiest route. Sorry. But also the one where they have a bit more control over where. I mean, obviously it's hard to maybe finish second but they might be keeping in that, that in mind. But yeah, I think they have a good chance of getting out the group. As you said, it's certainly a group where, you know, you probably only need to get a win and that and a draw and that would, that would almost guarantee you getting out. Which, yeah, maybe that's not the easiest thing for a team to achieve, but I would see them getting out of the group and then after that it's kind of, it's knockout tournament, it's a home competition for them, so anything could happen. But yeah, it will be, it'll be fun to see what they achieve in this, in this World cup because I think the sense of it is, is that what the US needs to really inject some kind of momentum into the development of football in that country is, is a good run in a, in a home World Cup.
- [36:11]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah. And they've got a couple of warm up games coming up against Senegal and Germany as well. One player that I was actually quite disappointed not to see in there was Diego Luna who I consider a sort of a, a moments player. And I know that's sort of been the description that's been used for someone, you know, in England. Set up. Who's unfortunately not going to the World Cup. Cole Palmer. So I was disappointed not to see him in there. I know he's been dealing with an injury, but we will see how they fare at the World cup and of course, we'll cover it in depth all the way with our team of reporters dedicated to the US Men's national team. Jack, let me just end with you. You've been out for a run this morning, getting in your pre World cup training, ready for the warm weather.
- [36:55]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
I'm going to struggle in the heat, Adam. I'm not built for it.
- [36:59]
Adam Leventhal
No, you're ready. You're in peak fitness, ready for the tournament. How excited are you?
- [37:06]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Very, very. I love. I love World Cups, I love tournaments. They're just. They. I just think they're better than club football fundamentally. I think they're more. They're more exciting, I think, than club football. I think they mean more to more people around the world than club football. Don't get me wrong, I love covering Tottenham, I love covering the Premier League week in, week out. But tournaments just have this kind of. Tournaments do things that club football can't do, club football can't reach. The amazing thing about tournaments is they have this kind of purity to them. And I don't mean all the political stuff going on off field because everyone's got strong opinions about that. I mean, the football on the pitch feels less buyable than in club football. Right? Like, you can't just buy the best players, you can't. I mean, you can buy the best coaches, but even then that's only. That's not going to win you a tournament in itself. There is more space for, like, the chaos and randomness of football in the international game than I think in the club game, and it takes you by surprise more often. So, yeah, I love international tournaments and I can't wait for the World Cup.
- [38:07]
Adam Leventhal
And John, your word on looking forward to the tournament?
- [38:11]
John McKenzie
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I've just done my last sort of end of season bit for work yesterday, so I'm now shifting very much into World cup mode. So I've got, what, 15 days to get all of those squads into my head and have a sort of sense of some of the bigger narratives. And I always love it because, you know, it's a different pace, it's a different thing from what I usually do. It's quite nice because it forces me to not. The tactics of the World cup will be interesting, but they'll be very different from what we see in the domestic game. And it's quite a nice challenge for me to sort of shift gears and think about how to explain that to a general audience as well. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to it.
- [38:50]
Adam Leventhal
And John, if you could just lift yourself up slightly. They are. There we go.
- [38:56]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Is that a front shirt or a France training shirt or training top?
- [38:59]
John McKenzie
It's a training top, yeah.
- [39:00]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
I was going to do. I was going to ask where you bought it from, but that sound like a plug.
- [39:04]
John McKenzie
Yeah, I can't remember where I bought it from. I got it a few years ago and got it quite cheap, so. But it's one of my favorites.
- [39:10]
Adam Leventhal
And are they your picks?
- [39:11]
John McKenzie
I think they're definitely up there for sure. I've just actually done a video for the Athletic FC looking at France's second squad. There was this kind of urban myth that the French second team could win the World cup, and I've sort of dug through that a little bit. So if you want to find out a little bit more about what France are going to look like, the players they're going to use in the first and second team, then there's a video for that. But, yeah, I think they'll definitely be up there. Their record under Didier Deschamps speaks for itself, but there's plenty of other good teams in there. And, yeah, you know, I think it being in the Americas will be fun. It should be interesting to see if maybe a South American team can. Can win off that basis. And the weather certainly won't suit, as we've said, a lot of the European players that we know and love.
- [39:54]
Jack Pitt-Brooke
Are you the Raymond Domenech of the Athletic? Putting too much emphasis on astrology?
- [39:58]
John McKenzie
Yeah, that's me. I think the winner will be determined by the position of the stars and any sort of interstices between them.
- [40:05]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, well, as a host, I'll come up with a tenuous link and you have both been out of this world on the show. John, thank you very much indeed. Jack, thanks to you as well. And don't forget, obviously, we started talking on this episode about Andoni Iriola and Bournemouth will cover his next steps. We'll also cover the build up to the World Cup. There's so much going on in terms of managerial moves, transfers as well. So do stay tuned on the Athletic. Thanks very much for listening and we'll see you on the next one.
- [40:39]
Podcast Announcer
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beal, with editing by Paul Iliff and Nick Thompson. The executive producer is Ady Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic Wherever you get your podcasts. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe the Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [41:15]
Ad Voice 1
This episode of the Athletic FC is
- [41:17]
Ad Voice 2
brought to you by Hotels.com when you're booking a hotel, here's a simple question. Why wouldn't you use hotels.com it really is all in the name.
- [41:26]
Ad Voice 1
As a member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels
- [41:29]
Ad Voice 2
around the world world and earn rewards on every single stay.
- [41:32]
Ad Voice 1
Which means the trips you're taking now
- [41:34]
Ad Voice 2
help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your
- [41:41]
Podcast Announcer
rewards are ready to go.
- [41:43]
Ad Voice 1
So whether you're planning a grand adventure to follow your national team around North America this summer, or whisking your special someone away for an escape because you've
- [41:50]
Ad Voice 2
been glued to the football for weeks, make sure to book@hotels.com and start earning rewards. Because when when it comes to hotels, it's simple. Hotels.com it's all in the name.
- [42:06]
Study.com Advertiser
You know what I keep seeing online? People finishing college degrees way faster than you'd expect. Like months instead of years. And it hit me. Most people get stuck because they need a faster way to make progress. That's what Study.com is built for. Online college courses on your schedule, at your own pace, on your phone or your laptop, with hundreds of courses that transfer to more than than 2,000 colleges and universities. So instead of putting life on hold, join the thousands of students earning their degrees faster and for less at just $95 a month. Go to study.com podcast to start earning college credit and get 10% off your first month. That's study.com podcast.
- [42:45]
Boost Mobile Advertiser
You're locked into a lot of things you can't change. Weather, traffic. Hey, stay in your lane. Your wireless carrier's latest price hike. But you can unlock a better way. Unlock the savings at Boost and save up to $600 a year. Switch to the $25 a month unlimited wireless plan. No contracts, no price hikes and you keep your phone stop being locked into their games. Unlock the savings@boostmobile.com unlock based on average annual single line of payment of AT&T Verizon and T Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited wireless plan as of January 2026. For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com.