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- [00:01]
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- [01:50]
The athletic f.
- [02:03]
Michael Bailey
Hello, you're listening to this week's episode of the Athletic FC Tactics Podcast. I'm your host Michael Bailey. This one is all about positional flexibility, discussing the Premier League players who have switched positions this season and why. On the show it's Liam Tham, Michael Cox and making a tactics debut, Keris Jones. Let's get into it.
- [02:28]
On this episode we will run through some of the high profile players who have switched positions in the Premier League recently and those who play multiple roles in their team. We'll dissect how effective those switches have been and what their best positions are. But first, Michael, does it seem like we're seeing more players changing positions now?
- [02:49]
Michael Cox
Yeah, maybe. As we've discussed a few times on the podcast before, I think players positions have converged a little bit more. I think there's just an emphasis upon the same concepts really, regardless of what position you play in, particularly just passing quality. And I think it's easier maybe for a midfielder to go back into defence or for a wide player to move up front. The other way though, to consider it is that managers have so many options now. They have a 20 man squad, they've got nine on the bench, they can use five subs. I mean back in the day when you had one or two subs, if your left back got injured, someone was going to have to fill in there. And I think now it actually allows for more specialization if you want that on the bench. You can have a player on the bench who's just a pure right winger, which probably wasn't really doable when you had like a 12th and 13th man. And they might have to cover any position. But I think, you know that the main thing that's changed really is there's more emphasis on systems, there's more emphasis upon being able to change system within a game. And I think there's not many players around who are just left backs. If you're a left back, you've got to be able to play as a left side center back in a three, as a wing back, maybe moving inside, into midfield. So yeah, I think there's different ways of looking at it, but I think players are more flexible now.
- [03:56]
Keris Jones
Yeah, I feel like it's almost a side effect, like Michael was saying of that of managers, many of them having such picky systems now. You know, we look at so many managers who arrive at a club with a set way of how they want to play. And if you were a left back, you now need to be a wing back, you now need to be a left sided centre back. Sometimes you need to push up into midfield. So it's a side effect of that. But I think there's also an element of managers having a few players. I know we'll talk about Dominik Szposl, like having really trusted lieutenants that they want to cram into that team however they can, even if it's not necessarily in their first choice position. I think that's where you have, you know, your more experienced, your leadership figures playing perhaps in a wider variety of positions because the coach thinks that they can get more kind of leadership, more sort of verbal leading of the squad out of them in that position by shifting them say into midfield or into a more central role.
- [04:49]
Liam Tham
I think Karis is spot on with that. I think one thing we miss a lot of the time Is that not every decision for playing a player or a unit or however a team is set up is purely kind of technical or tactical. There's massive kind of psychological and I suppose even social would be the right word ways of looking at a team of how it's kind of constructed. Especially when you look at some of the game teams you'll play if they're going to a particularly tough away game that you, you might need more leadership in that and players that you go, I don't really understand or they might look like a weakness of one player. You know, perhaps putting a midfielder at fullback is an example of saying, oh, if they're up against a really good winger, well that's going to be a real problem. Yeah, it might be for 4 or 5 kind of 1v1s in the game, but if across 90 minutes you then got a leader on the pitch who can, you know, bring a team together, can be gluing that team, that's probably worth more than you're going to, going to kind of lo across the game. And I think my honest view on this is just that coaches more than anything are people that are put in charge to find solutions to problems fundamentally. And I think as Michael kind of touched on and Keris mentioned it as well, of coaches now with kind of set ideas of wanting to play certain ways kind of end up manufacturing their own problems because they're trying to kind of reach playing a certain style or a certain philosophy, whatever word you want to use. I think better coaches, especially at the top level aren't quite as fixed on that. They might have principles and ideas and that allows them to use players kind of within that. And it was one of the reasons why back when it was the European Championships men's Euros last summer and people were crying off at England not having a natural left back. I said when I wrote a piece and at the time and it didn't, I think it ended up happening partially during a game of necessity. It was like Gareth Southgate should just put Picayo Saka left wing back. Said he's got a natural left footed defender that can play there, a good quality player and he's got enough number tens that can then go and replace some more wingers that can play in his place further up the pitch that your job as a coach, especially internationally and sure this is a bit different, slightly off piece, but is to find solutions for six, seven games across one summer, have to do it permanently. And a lot of what we're talking about probably are kind of temporary fixes. To problems that arise because injuries happen, players are out of form, players get sold and teams need a solution so I think that's all it comes down to.
- [06:42]
Michael Bailey
Okay, well let's start our player review with defensive positions. Karis who's done a great job of teasing this a good starting point is Dominik Szomerszlai an all action Liverpool midfielder/number 10 predominantly playing at right back and replacing Mo Salah at right wing versus West Ham and Sunderland more recently. So I guess the first question Michael and I'll come to you first on this as well what is his best position?
- [07:08]
Michael Cox
I don't know. I mean personally I wasn't a huge fan of him at number 10. I think he did a very good job there for the team last year but I think he's basically a functional player. I think most number tens we think about oh you're going to base the side around him. I don't think that's ever been the case when he's at Liverpool Obviously the side was based around Salah and probably others ahead of him but I think he's got energy I think he's very good tactically My issue with him was I think actually he was a bit rash in his decision making Sometimes he shoots quite a lot from not that good positions he's got a very high percentage of blocked shots I think I'm right in saying certainly did last season and the strange thing is he's been Liverpool's best player this season I think that's quite clear and yet he's played right back. He started the season at right back then he moved to a central midfield role. He's played a little bit in his advanced role and then he was playing on the right basically in place of Salah in the last two games I don't really know what his best role is but again I'm not sure it's. I'm not sure if Liverpool are going to find the solution. I don't think Szoboszlai's best role is almost that relevant I think it's all about the other players I think Szoboszlai is so versatile that he can work around them and do a job pretty much wherever he plays but he's a good example I mean I think actually at right back there was a couple of games the game against Arsenal I think when he was excellent there and they've got obviously lots of options they can use at right back but he looks really the most natural in that position to me I think he's A.
- [08:23]
Liam Tham
Really good athlete and I think Szobozlai is honestly best for Liverpool wherever he can run. You look at the other quality they've got in midfield, as Michael was saying about having a 10 you can base a team around. That's probably more what you look at Florian Viet for someone, you know, a really good pocket player that can break teams down, especially with the number of low box or deep defenses they're going to face. I know Slots kind of remarked a lot on that a lot this season and part of the problem that I think he helps Liverpool solve is when Salah's playing. Obviously he wasn't recently against Sunderland, but generally speaking, and apart from his way afcon, Salah is still going to play. They're going to find a way to get him in that team. Even if he's a bit out of form, he doesn't really press at all. Now you've kind of got Salah stood up on, on the penalty area in line with the center back and you're then saying, okay, you need to, you're right back to be making these really big aggressive jumps. And we saw that last year with Trent Alexander Arnold who did that really well. I think it's just not the same, you know, when they've had Zusanus Frimpong a right back or had Joe Gomez a right back that it's not quite been as aggressive. And it showed, I think it really, really showed in the Brentford game away from home where they really struggled in the first half. Wirtz was actually playing off the right in that, in that game and was trying to make those jumps and he just, you know, Christopher Ryer kept getting out down that side. He was just bullying, going past bits and Szoboszlai end up filling that role later on in the second half. And Liverpool second goal comes from him basically sprinting really aggressively, getting to the ball before Ayre and putting a cross in and Salah scoring a really good goal. So I think that's part of the reason why he worked at number 10 last year because he had Luis Diaz who worked really well in combination with him. Really good technically but also had space to run into. They were basically playing two tens or false nines and trying to get him behind teams that way. So I think he's kind of a good cog, but someone that's in there honestly for physical capabilities as much as what he can do on the ball.
- [09:58]
Keris Jones
I think that's the thing. It's like if you look when we're looking at players playing out of position, it's just as much about what those around them are or are aren't doing and how they complement each other. If you put Dominik Szoboszlai in a right back in other teams in the Premier League who have a more aggressive winger than Mo Salah, who is able to press more and able to contribute more in that regard, it's just not as necessary. But then the other consideration for me, I think Sobslay has done a really good job at right back for Liverpool, but it's considering what is he then taking away from where he would usually be, if that makes sense. If you look at Liverpool for instance, he did a really good job defensively but to kind of play devil's advocate, he's then the presence in the box that's distracting from Rio Ngoma for his goal. So it's what he can add in central areas. And it's a balancing act, right, as are most management decisions of if you're going to take this player out of their kind of out of their natural position, make them a bit of a square peg in a round hole. What are you. Who's filling the round hole? Is it just another square peg that's going in there as well?
- [10:57]
Michael Cox
I mean there's been two games this season at least where Liverpool have been losing and they've moved Szoboszlai to right back and actually Gravenberg to center back just because they need that and need distribution from the back. And obviously the, you know, the player they've without is Trent Alexander Arnold and even though I wouldn't have Szobuslai down as an overwhelmingly creative number 10, he's better on the ball. He's better at playing four passes than the other options at right back who are runners and tacklers and overlappers and crosses. But they're maybe not that good at progressing the ball. So I think he's actually been quite useful there. That said, we did say a few a few weeks ago that we thought we needed. They needed to get him back in midfield just to make that a bit more solid and when they did that they have looked a bit better. But yeah, it's quite. It's quite unusual to have a player who's I think been their best player this season but has played four different positions and we still can't really say where he belongs in that team. But that's obviously not his, not his fault.
- [11:48]
Michael Bailey
No, quite. And the thing that sticks with me is that when I first was conscious of. Of him playing, it was more for Hungary and The sort of talismanic role he had for his, for his country, you know, basically trying to run the show and, and do so much. And I find it quite interesting how, how players are often going to have to switch between what they're being asked to do. Maybe because the players are around in a national team compared to then at club where obviously the level is very different but then so, so is the role on a weekly basis.
- [12:14]
Michael Cox
Yeah. And I think, I mean we're thinking a lot about the World cup this week with the draw tomorrow as we're speaking and I think we'll see a lot of that at the World cup because there's so many of these teams, you know, outsiders that haven't been in the World cup before and often you get someone who's, I don't know, take Zinchenko for example, who's, you know, basically been almost exclusively a left back for Manchester City and Arsenal in particular. But when you see him for his country, he's almost like the number 10. He's the kind of creative fulcrum of the side and I think we're going to see a lot of that. These players who are maybe with respect, good enough to scrape into the side in a Premier League club, actually when they go back to the country they're one of the key players.
- [12:52]
Michael Bailey
Arsenal have made a habit of converting centre backs to fullbacks. Jurrien Timber, Ben White, Ricciardo Calafiori and Piero Hincapi have all played at center back. We did a whole podcast on Arsenal's defense a few weeks back so you can go check that out for a full discussion on it. But, but here and now we can say Califioria is maybe the most interesting because he does have a very free role. Liam.
- [13:16]
Michael Cox
He does.
- [13:17]
Liam Tham
I think he's worked it really effectively. It's been probably the key part of Arsenal's left hand side for a while now. I mean, I think Martini's had some good spells but often he's the first choice player for the left and doesn't quite have the output that Saka does. So I think you need something to compensate. Whereas I mean Timber gets forward quite well actually and I think often pops up with, you know, goals are set pieces and can be a threat there, but you don't ever feel like you perhaps need someone to add something to. Sackers out. But he kind of delivers enough on his own and with how many deep defenses, you know, and a lot of these themes for big clubs are going to be how they can add kind of quality and creativity to their attack. And Arsenal do face a lot of roadblocks. So having someone that can be that extra threat because often that's the player that is going to be least likely to be trapped because it's going to be a wing or a midfielder that's going to have to go with them who probably switch off for a second or two or they might just try and pass them on and all of a sudd they'll pass them on, but everyone else is currently marking someone and can't pick them up. And I think he's looked okay in those positions. You often get players that are kind of crashing the box that come from kind of an unconventional part of the pitch and then look quite awkward. I actually think he looks quite good technically and it's something that Arsenal have done for a while now when you look at how they've used Lewis Skelly kind of moving into being extra midfielders in Cenko before that. So it's something Arteta's liked for a while, I think. And again, that's just part of his Arsenal team kind of moving and evolving. But I think also it comes back to a point, Michael references on, on this podcast about, you know, Guardiola and the proper defenders that the liking really for physicality as much as anything else. I mean, California I think came through as a, as a center back, as a. As a central defender. So clearly he's got that physical presence that, you know, can really, as we're saying, have another player for set pieces, another, another big guy at the back. And I think generally Arteta seems to really like these unconventional players. You look at someone like Declan Rice who came through as a center back now playing a defensive midfielder, then moved into kind of a box crushing number eight with Zubamendi behind him in midf. Same Vitti Yokerez who played off the left a lot and was a number nine also in his academy days. The Andrew Trossard, he's played in various positions across the front line. Jurrien Timber, a center back who's then moved to right back and looks like a centre back in Jules now that they're quite a weird team in a good way. I think Arsenal for just not being very traditional, they've got players that are quite quirky. I think it can make them a bit harder to defend sometimes because they just don't have those instincts of the positions as we kind of quintessentially think about them.
- [15:24]
Keris Jones
Yeah, I think that's the key thing when we're talking about like Centre backs who move into a fullback role, they just, they need the confidence and the unpredict ability to be able to start launching an attack from the wings. That's what I think. You know, in the modern game we have a lot of possession based sides who like their centre backs to be able to punch passes through the lines. They're really key in the build up, but they're rarely going to be a threat in terms of actually taking the attacker who's facing them on in the way that a full back does. And I think that's what Califiori can do really well because he is relatively two footed, he's gifted technically. He provides that extra threat which like you say, just keeps that winger or that midfielder more occupied. It creates more space for those around him as well, prevents them from just sitting in that block because you know that he will try and progress the ball anyway.
- [16:08]
Michael Cox
And I think it's quite interesting because he's obviously starting at left back and almost always making diagonal runs. But his roles actually varied. There's sometimes where he's been really creative. He played a great ball over the top against Leeds for Gyokeres goal from the left hand channel in that game. But there was also the away game against Fulham where it was almost like a number nine. He was almost like the main penalty box threat. And then the Manchester City game, he was wandering into deeper positions as if he had a kind of free role to be the Andrea Pirlo figure or something. So it's. It's not the same every week and you know, it's unconventional in maybe three different ways. He's a very interesting player. I was kind of sad that he wasn't going to be used at center back because I thought it was. It'd be so fun to have a player who was so creative and so technical as your center back. But actually it's been much more interesting at left back because he's doing all sorts of things.
- [16:55]
Michael Bailey
I also want to talk about Ahmad at Manchester United. And just as a footnote here we are recording this before their match with West Ham tonight. Amad is primarily a winger who has been converted into a wing back position. Michael, is it working?
- [17:09]
Michael Cox
I don't know. I think this is a really interesting one. That tool draw at Forest I think sums it up because he scored a really good goal, but he also got caught napping at the back post, which I think is often an issue for players playing in that position who aren't accustomed to it. I mean, if you look at last season When Manchester United won that game at city, when they're 10 down and they won 2 1, and it was all down to him. He won a penalty out of nowhere and then he scored a really good winner late on. The whole game plan for that was that he was the inside right, but he didn't have to track back. He kind of had a free role to stay centrally, and that really caused City a lot of problems and eventually resulted in the goal. I think at times he was, I mean, Manchester United's best attacker. Last season he was almost carrying the team, I think. I mean, this is interesting because I think it depends about whether you're talking about the team or about the individual. For me, as an individual, I think he's an inside right. I think he's a player who probably wants to play in that mbumo role. He wants to take up similar positions, different type of player, probably less of a shooter, a bit more dribbly bit more creative. So from his perspective, I think you're getting less out of him if you're playing him at wing back. From the team's perspective, Mbuma is obviously a really good player and a good goal scorer. So if you can get the two of them in the team, then great. And at times they have combined well. But I must say I thought Diallo was going to be a player who was a real cornerstone of Manchester United's attack. I mean, if we're talking to him towards the end of last season, I thought, well, he's one of the players you build around, actually. It feels like obviously Mbuma is going to dominate that role. He's going to play wing back sometimes, but in games where you want more defensive strength, he's probably not going to be in the team. And I think that is a shame because I think he's a massive talent.
- [18:40]
Keris Jones
Yeah, it feels like one where it's purely because of a system change that he has been shoehorned into that position. I don't think that he's a player you would have ever watched and thought he was in any way suited to a fullback role. And I think you'll find that kind of when you watch him. If he is in that right wing back role, which it usually is, I think he's been tried on the left. It just really worked even less. But usually when you see him playing right wing back, it's because you've got a Masraoui or a Dallow or a Shaw on the left to kind of balance him out in that way. Because you know that Ahmad's not going to provide that same physical threat to a dribbler that's on their way up the pitch. He can track back with them, he's got the pace to do that, but he doesn't have the same maybe physical strength to make them stop and think about things. So it kind of you can really see when he's playing in that role. It's frustrating for him because he's got such good attributes going forwards, but defensively he doesn't have the physical profile that you need for a full back. He is in the kind of wing back category. I feel it's often wingers that have to convert that struggle way more than full backs that have to convert and I think he's a good example of that.
- [19:51]
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- [22:22]
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- [23:15]
Michael Bailey
Let's flip the script and talk about the move from defense to midfield. I think we should start here with Rhys James. He has made that switch from right back to central midfield. Does he look at home there Caris?
- [23:26]
Keris Jones
He really does, which is quite impressive considering how much he had made the right back spot his own at Chelsea I think. And you know he's played in other positions. He's played in midfield before kind of in his academy days and I think this move has worked out really well for a couple of reasons, one being I do think it's really helped him stay fit. He's up to any Chelsea fans might want to kind of touch whatever wood is nearby, but he's nearly a year free from injury now, which is something that I think felt Pretty far off for a long time and I think part of that is his hamstrings not being exposed to having to sprint up and down the touchline all the time. But so it's benefited him in that way. But I think it's also been of huge benefit to the team to have that kind of vocal leader in that more central role as well. And to have someone who's got the defensiveness and the passing range to sit alongside Caicedo. I think it's been a really positive thing for the team as a whole. But I think part of what makes him most suited to it are sort of those leadership attributes which I guess links back to what we talked about earlier.
- [24:29]
Michael Cox
That's interesting because I've always seen him as a funny captain because he's quite a kind of shy, introverted guy off the pitch. Is he regarded as a good kind of on pitch leader?
- [24:38]
Keris Jones
He's regarded as definitely having improved. I think Enzo Maresca said at one point last season that he'd gone to Rhys Jones and said I need more leadership from you, which is quite a rogue Reuben Amarim esque thing to admit in a press conference, but it feels like he's stepped up in that regard and he's done really well in. In games recently where Caicedo has been rested or he's been suspended and James has featured in the midfield, not necessarily as a direct replacement, but he's replaced some of that leadership and physicality. I think he's done really well and I think also the fact that he's been in the team for a longer spell now will definitely have helped. It's hard to be an on pitch leader when you're in the treatment room, so there's definitely an element of that.
- [25:22]
Michael Bailey
A rare dip into the championship. But I remember him having a wonderful season on loan at Wigan where he played predominantly in midfield and he superb. Could he play in midfield for England though, Caris, do you reckon?
- [25:35]
Keris Jones
I just don't think that he would get the spot, you know, Like, I think that there's so much competition at the moment in England's midfield anyway and so many players that Thomas Tuchel's got to try and Shoehorn in. Is he good enough to do it? Yeah, maybe. But when you're trying to fit Jude Bellingham, Phil Foden, Adam Wharton, Elliot Anderson, maybe even Jordan Henderson, like, like into a midfield potentially, I would say that James would. I would choose to go in that kind of holding spot ahead of someone like Jordan Henderson. But there are so many midfielders that he's already trying to cram into the squad that I just think James is more likely to hold down a place at right back. Which then poses a really interesting question, right, if he's making midfield his main role at Chelsea, how does that then affect what he does next summer? And that's something that Tuchel will have to kind of hash out.
- [26:22]
Michael Cox
Well, yeah, there's. I mean, it's quite a weird situation for England. The three players who started in midfield various points alongside Rice Euro 2024 were Mainoo Alexander Arnold and Conor Gallagher. And there was a weekend last season where obviously Alexander Arnold was playing right back for Liverpool, Gallagher was playing basically left midfield for Atletico and Manu was playing up front that week for Manchester United. So there is, I mean, if they're your midfield options, I think you're struggling a bit, but I do think it's an option as a holding player. I mean, if they do decide they want to be a bit more solid, you know, I think Anderson's done well for England, but he's quite an adventurous midfielder. I think in certain games, if you want someone to sit there, I thought he, I mean, he was the best player on the pitch. I thought against Arsenal.
- [27:04]
Keris Jones
The optics of kind of putting Rhys James in as you're holding midfielder ahead of Anderson though, because of that kind of quality of adventurousness that he has, I think is then something that fans will probably have a bit of a moan about. But whether they're right or not, like, like I think that you've got a point. I think he can add that stability in there, but there will be plenty of people who still struggle to shift him from right back in their minds.
- [27:27]
Liam Tham
England fans moaning.
- [27:28]
Michael Cox
Surely not.
- [27:29]
Keris Jones
No, I don't think so. I'm just being pessimistic.
- [27:32]
Michael Bailey
Let's move on from that and let's head to Brighton. Liam Mats Vifa, he made the opposite move to James in terms of midfield to right back. But what does he bring to Brighton in that role?
- [27:43]
Liam Tham
Well, first of all, was it that brought them a right back? They didn't, you know, it's much more of a case, I think, of solving a problem they had of a lack of options there. Tarek Lamptey having long standing injuries before, before he left. Joel Veltman having some injuries as well as a much more kind of conservative half right back, half center back sometimes. And it's something that Roberto de Zerbi done obviously prior to Fabian Herzler with Jack Hinshawood when he first came through the academy, started playing left Back play kind of both sides as a central midfielder. So part of it is I think just kind of filling a hole but it's also kind of then the profile that you put there rather than moving a center back there. It's teams that then want build up are saying well we're going to put a technician there. We're going to put a player that can pass, can play off both feet, which Kevis is kind of mentioning. The really specific thing I found interesting about VA has been the runs he's made into the half space. He's made a lot of unlapping runs. That's really key for Yuba Minter out on the right because he's you know, a really quick, very, very left footed winger. Goes on the outside sometimes but really likes to cut in and stay high and wide. Bryson have really targeted him with a lot of switches of play, especially Lewis dunk hitting some big diagonals kind of out to the right hand side. And basically then when Minter gets the ball often he can find himself 1v2 or get very easily doubled up on and those V for runs occasionally he gets found by Binta but often really it's just a decoy of saying take someone away, open up the space and and kind of create a better picture in front of the winger.
- [28:56]
Michael Cox
Yeah, I was going to say the same is there's been two world bet goals this season, one against Leeds, one against Newcastle that have come really just from we for making really good runs. And as someone who you know, I think Brighton usually a bit of a match of the day team for me. I'm often kind of going back to the lineups thinking what position is he playing in? Because he just, he just moves in such a unusual and really clever way and just those runs, those runs in behind, just timing you run in behind is just so important in football.
- [29:20]
Michael Bailey
I like that. A bit of your match of the day team.
- [29:23]
Michael Cox
Yeah, sorry Burton.
- [29:24]
Michael Bailey
Okay. Well moving further forward we have Enzo Fernandez. We did speak about him in our recent defensive midfielders discussion so we probably covered that off. It's worth a listen to that. But he is a really interesting case. The next one on our list away from that is a winger 10 number 10, 10 deep midfielder Alex Awobi. Now at Fulham, Michael. He feels like a player that has really blossomed through a lengthy career and through all those positional switches.
- [29:51]
Michael Cox
Yeah, I've always had a real affection for Alex Awobi and one of the reasons I've liked him is I think he's a completely different player. To the one he was cast as when he was coming through. I think people see a young player, you know, a young winger coming through. So the first thing we knew about him was that he was J.J. okoch's nephew. So everyone was like, oh, well, he's going to be really tricky. He's going to be really skillful. He's actually not. I don't think he's particularly great in those situations. But what he's always been good at is being intelligent, playing the right pass at the right time. His best spell at Arsenal was probably under Emery, where his whole job was just to get the best out of the wing back. And he played. Sometimes he played ahead of Kolasinac and Kolasinac was not a great player. But it will be made him look really effective just by moving inside at the right time, playing the right pass at the right time. And he's done the same for Fulham with Robinson. Robinson's, you know, on and off has had a really good couple of spells for him and I think part of that is he's often playing with Iwobi who opens up that space. But actually Marco Silva's said, well, his qualities are so much based around that and not maybe the traditional things we think of as a winger that I'm going to try him at number 10 where he's done pretty well and then they've actually moved him deeper where he's conducted the play. Well, I think he brings something different from when they play. Lukic and Sanderberg, who are are good players but probably a little bit too similar. And I think it's just been really good to see him on the ball more almost the go to player for Fulham in that midfield zone. They've had a funny season, Fulham, it's been a little bit difficult to get your head around them because they were really struggling at one point, but they've won three of the last four, albeit not always with the Wobi playing in that deep role. In fact, he played there in a game I was at where Everton and didn't look too good. But in general I think he's. Yeah, he's brought something different in that deep role. Role.
- [31:29]
Keris Jones
I'd be interested to see what people who've watched more Fulham than me kind of think of this point because I think instinctively when we're talking about players switching positions, you would think it would be the younger ones who are in theory more malleable. But then we're talking about someone like Alex Uwobi using that experience to move backwards almost I wonder if with a lot of these players, is it a case of how to still get the best out of them while factoring in the attributes that they are kind of waning out of like his pace or his, his forward ability, both of which are still good but probably not at their peak anymore, instead capitalizing on the intelligence and the reading of the game.
- [32:05]
Liam Tham
I don't know if I've watched more Fulham than Kerris, but I can try and give some kind of answer to that. I think you look at the recruitment they've had and the recruitment that they haven't had is really important in this that I think Marco Silva seems a bit understandably fed up of not really being hugely backed in any of the recent transfer windows. Especially when you think about them losing Mitrovic in recent years, losing big players and never really replacing them or reinvesting the money they've had in that. They did bring in Kevin as a really quick wing. I put up a ridiculous number of dribbles, but I think just hasn't had that many minutes and clearly isn't trusted already to start. And I think the reason kind of awobe now being moved around a bit is also partly due to Anthony Robinson's injury, which I think was more long standing than I realized. He played a lot of minutes last season, obviously plays for the US internationally, so a lot of kind of cross continental travel for him, but just such a great runner times with the amount of kind of output you get from him. I think he had 10 assists last season. One of the, if not probably the standout left back in the league. Probably I'd even have him ahead of Kirk as he obviously got the big money move. But I think if you've got him, him overlapping down the left being the crossing threat, you don't really need too much from your winger there. You could effectively play like a, an auxiliary number 10, another midfielder that can then move into a central space. So I think Marcus Silva, I mean he's been at for him a long time. I think he's the third longest serving coach in the Premier League behind Arteta and Guardiola, which obviously includes having the championship. But I think that's just partly a coach trying to experiment when they've not got many solutions and have to use the players that he's got.
- [33:36]
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Keris Jones
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- [35:00]
Michael Bailey
We've got a few more to rattle through, so let's do that. Mikel Marino's role at Arsenal has been interesting. Midfielder by trade, he played as a more traditional number nine at times last season and then this season in the absence of Victor Joykores, he's also played as a kind of false 929 goal involvements for club and country in 2025 and another headed goal last night night against Brentford. Michael well, what are we doing with him?
- [35:27]
Michael Cox
Yeah, he's an unusual player. He I remember there's a game against Manchester United last season, a one or draw Old Trafford where he played up front and I thought he played too much into the hands of Manchester United's back three because he played as a proper number nine. I think the game against Tottenham, the 41 win, what weekend before last, that showed really what he should be doing because I think he's very good at collecting the ball between the lines. He's quite intelligent with the positions he takes up and of course it allows others to go in behind him. So I think he's almost played three different roles. He's played as a proper number nine, he's played as a false number nine and of course at times he just does a job in midfield and I think, you know, it's kind of unusual when you've got a player who can be in midfield and up front, but actually we know the value of a backup striker, of someone who can come off the bench and just add that aerial threat. The value of someone like Mourinho is that if he's not doing that, if you don't need him to do that, he's not just on the bench. He can do a job as a central midfielder. He's not as good a central midfielder as Odegaard or Eze or probably a couple of others, but he's perfectly functional there. So I think he's really useful. And there's a few players in the last couple of years who've played almost as a number eight in midfield and also as a number nine. I mean, different type of player. But Julian Alvarez I thought was an interesting one at Manchester City. Came in as a number nine as a striker, you know, won the World cup for Argentina playing up front, but actually to get him in the side, they paid him as number eight. And okay, different reasons for Marino, but it feels like there's a few more players who can do that play as a proper central midfielder and as a proper striker.
- [36:55]
Michael Bailey
Parker, as we did mention a few weeks ago as well, Jeremy Doku has moved off the wing to a more central position in attack during matches this season. It's a really interesting role he has. Is he better at that or better as a touchline winger? Liam?
- [37:08]
Liam Tham
I'm not sure. I think better on the touchline generally. I think what was ironic that when I was at the fun game in midweek where he's doing a lot of that and fraud, he was receiving and some good, good pockets kind of in, you know, in the half spaces. I think part of the issue was he did have besides Harland too many bodies ahead of him to actually kind of play, you know, passes into or connect with. But then the goal that he does end up setting up comes from a cross out on the touch line with his left foot. A really good ball in from out wide. I think Kenny Tette a lot of the time defended him quite well, Quite a good 1v1 defender, fairly quick, so can probably not exactly match him for pace, but he doesn't ever kind of get exploited like some other defenders might do. And then the goal, well, I say the goal he gets, it's an own goal because it's going miles wide I think before it takes a massive deflection. But again, isn't kind of him him receiving in a pocket and turning a la Phil Foden. It's more him being out wide and trying kind of a far post shot. So he's good at receiving in those pockets. But I think his most dangerous Stuff seems to come from out wide or kind of driving into space more. So I think if you want output from him, which is always kind of the criticism of Jeremy Doku has been going right back to his days in Ligue 1, then he needs to probably be a lot more out wide. And you think, realistically, City have got players that can do that. Reinders, Foden, Shirky, they've got the number 10s that are probably better at doing that. They don't have as many good wingers as Dockers. Let Docu be more of a winger.
- [38:20]
Michael Bailey
You may all have your own suggestions as well out there, but finally, for our list, we have Joao Pedro, a Chelsea number nine, or keris, a number 10 or both. Where do you sit on this fence?
- [38:32]
Keris Jones
Joao Pedro was the player that I was thinking of earlier when Liam was talking about how sometimes when players are out of position, you can see the tendencies that they're used to in terms of, like, spaces that they expect to be there to turn into. Because Joao Pedro would just really make me laugh earlier in the season because he. He'd drop in and he'd get himself in these great positions and he'd beat, like three midfielders and then he'd get his head up to play a ball to the striker, and then he'd remember that he was meant to be the striker. And it was just. You could see how frustrating it was for him because the first few games that Chelsea played this season where he was in behind Liam Delap, I think, kind of worked really well. And then obviously Delap had that injury and that meant Joao Pedro moving up into the nine, and he's not as well suited to it. He did a very good impression of a striker at the club World cup, scored a lot of goals, but he's not really replicated that in the Premier League. I think what he can add from deep in terms of picking the ball up in pockets, getting past players and then finding the striker is much more valuable. The issue is just that Chelsea are that they now have Dilap back, but he's not really firing on all cylinders yet. So they're still. There's been quite a lot of rotation up front for them in the past few games. You know, they've started with the lap and then. Then Joao Pedro has maybe kind of moved up once he's come off, and then for the last 10 minutes, they'll take Pedro off and they'll throw Mark Guillau on. So it's quite unsettled at the moment. But I think for him, his Best position is. Is the 10.
- [39:59]
Michael Bailey
Just a bit of time for a tweak of the week. Although we are going to tweak tweak of the week for this week, as in which Premier League player should switch positions that maybe hasn't, or someone we think is a good candidate. This should be fun. He says. Teeing it up. What have we got? Michael, do you want to go first?
- [40:17]
Michael Cox
Yeah. I mean, the most interesting player who's moved positions in the last couple of years is obviously Ousmane Dembele, who's gone from a wide player to a center forward and is now officially the best player in the world. He is. He won the Ballon d'.
- [40:29]
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- [40:31]
Michael Cox
So along those lines, I'd like to see Semenu at Bournemouth have a go up front. I think he's a really good all round player. I think he's clinical in front of goal. The thing I like about him, which is very similar to Dembele, is he's incredibly 250. So last season in the Premier League, for the record, he was the third took the third most shots in the league behind Salah and Palmer. So actually even more than Erling Haaland, which is a bit of a surprise. But he took at least 54 with both feet. Now no other player in the Premier league took more than 25 with both feet. Don't know whether that makes sense, that kind of stat, but basically his weaker foot. I would say that means it's basically twice as good as anyone else's weaker foot, at least in raw terms of how many shots he's had. So I'd really like to see him there. I know Bournemouth have got a couple of other other good forwards. Evan Nilsen's a good player, but I think he could. I mean, he's only 25. There's been rumors about him going to a bigger club, but I think if he goes to a bigger club, he probably won't play as a center forward. I'd love to see him have a go up front for Bournemouth on.
- [41:27]
Liam Tham
On the same lines as that. I'd put Brendan Johnson as a number nine for different reasons. Mostly that he scores a lot of tap ins, doesn't cross much, doesn't dribble much. I know I've brought him up in this podcast before, but again, another player that can get into good high scoring positions. I'd love to see Arsenal try a bit to Yokaris off the left and put Martinelli right wing. I think they're gonna have a lot of pace going in behind I've always found Martinelli kind of a better runner and better almost crasher at the back post than he is really a better dribbler. I think he showed that almost in the buying game where that touch he takes that Neuer seems to not expect because he just doesn't kind of think is coming off that through ball. And I always think Joe Chris is a bit better coming, you know, inside with pace, with speed. As Michael mentioned, that goal against audience Leeds when he comes in rather than kind of being the focal point and trying to find space in the box, the one that intrigues me. And only because Pep Guardi was speaking about it on Tuesday after the Fulham game quite voluntarily actually. No one really pressed him on this, but they were just kind of saying what on earth has gone wrong? That you've, you know, you've won but you've conceded four goals. And he was saying the issues they had for not having a replacement for for Nico Gonzalez at defensive midfield that Roger will hopefully be back at some point. But besides that if Nico can't see out a full game, well they need to find a solution for you to play in defensive midfield. He bought Stones on there temporarily and ends up moving him into defense and I don't quite know if Stones has got the athleticism for it at least kind of post injuries. Now he floated the idea of Nico O'Reilly playing there. I think he's played there in his academ. Also the idea of Reinhard Nuri, which I thought was fascinating to kind of move from a very creative wing back into more of a defensive midfield role, presumably more for his passing range and composure under pressure. But I think that's a bit of a Watch the space with what Pep's going to do.
- [43:00]
Michael Bailey
We hope you enjoyed this week's episode of the Athletic FC Tactics podcast. If you want more tactics content, we release the pod every Thursday. So go and check it out wherever you get your podcast. See you soon.
- [43:14]
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- [44:47]
Robert Mase
Through the store, Dave's looking for a gift.
- [44:50]
Michael Cox
One you can't ignore.
- [44:52]
Keris Jones
But not the socks he picked.
- [44:53]
Michael Cox
I know. I'm putting them back. Hey, Dave, you. Here's a tip.
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Keris Jones
Put scratchers on your list.
- [44:57]
Michael Cox
Oh, scratchers.
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Keris Jones
It's an easy shopping trip. We're glad we could assist.
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Michael Cox
Thanks, random singing people. So be like David's holiday and give the gift of play Scratchers from the California Lottery.
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Keris Jones
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Michael Cox
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