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- [00:01]
Max Rushton
Do you want your soccer analysis more direct than an Arsenal set piece? Join me, Max Rushton and the Guardian's expert soccer journalist. For the latest action and news from the Premier League to the Champions League and all the way to the World cup, we'll have chat more out of the box than a Dominik Szoboszlai free kick. More panellists than Chelsea have players, and unlike var, we know where to draw the line for fine margins, fun debates and full blooded tackles. Football Weekly Listen wherever you get your podcasts and watch the full episodes on YouTube.
- [00:26]
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- [02:03]
Ayo Akimolere
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere. Once again, booze rang round and filled AS Liverpool drew 11 with spurs after missing the chance to go fourth. Is it Champions League qualification or bust for Arne Slut? All right, in with me today. We've got Simon Hughes, the regular on our Liverpool podcast, Walk on. And also Adam Crafton as well. All right, Si Liverpool versus Tottenham Hotspur. Watching them, they looked, I don't know from my perspective, a little devoid of everything that made them champions last season. Did that result basically epitomise what Liverpool's season is so Far.
- [02:44]
Simon Hughes
Well, yeah, you know, they conceded another late goal. I think it's the eighth late goal that they conceded this season. And I think if he eliminated those goals, Liverpool will be just one point behind Man City. And the conversation about them might be a little bit different right now, but it encourages this sort of sense of fatalism really which at the moment is reaching, I would say a critical stage now because I mean you alluded to it there. There was a bit of a walkout really which began even before Tottenham had scored their equalizer. There was a sense of this is coming, people decided to leave. And then obviously when the equalizer did come, Anfield empty pretty quickly. So there were problems right across the pitch where they struggle to get up the pitch, they struggled to keep the ball, they struggled to defend the line defensively. And Tottenham I actually feel probably should consider themselves unlucky or annoyed with themselves for not actually winning the game. Because Richarlison, before he scored, he could have had a hat trick, three clear headers, a more confident Richarlison I think would have scored and Liverpool would have been staring down at a really, really bad defeat.
- [03:54]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, Adam, Liverpool have their problems, but spurs definitely have their problems. A team eyeing relegation at this moment in time, you know, a team still yet to win in 2026, does that just compound how bad a result this was for Liverpool? Because going into it, here's me thinking perhaps Liverpool might actually win two, three here.
- [04:13]
Adam Crafton
Yeah. And I think sometimes you get these games where the expectation is so big that a team is going to lose that you just get. You just get these kind of random, slightly random shocks where I think everyone thought yesterday going into it that it was almost like maybe spurs will just give Tudor one more game to get Anfield out of the way. Less actually out of an expectation of go and get a point or a win at Anfield. It was almost like let him take the pain of Anfield. I'm not sure where this all leaves Tudor as well by the way, because it was like a result probably no one expected in that sense. Which doesn't really make sense because you look at Liverpool season and they've dropped loads of points at home that they shouldn't have dropped, you know, and a lot of points against teams down near the bottom of the table. Whether that is they lost against Forest, didn't they? They lost drew against Leeds, Sunderland. I know they're not sort of right down there Burnley. So it's not an impossible place to go. It is just the name of Anfield and Liverpool And Liverpool don't close out games well enough. And they give you a way back in.
- [05:20]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, Anfield's an interesting one at the moment. The Fortress. Many people know, you know, the dark art sometimes, Simon, you know, things happen there that you don't see many other football stadiums. Has it lost that charm? Has it lost that fear factor?
- [05:33]
Simon Hughes
Well, evidently it has. You know, teams have gone there this season, as Adam says, you know, and got results. I think that week where Liverpool lost to Forest and I think it was the same week psv, you know, was a really damaging week because it totally shattered the idea that you couldn't just go to Anfield and win, but win resoundingly. That, you know, Liverpool could have been much worse for Liverpool as well in each of those games. So at the moment, you know, Anfield is a place which is more difficult for Liverpool to play, I would say, than the opponents. And this then feeds into what is to come against Galatasaray. You know, I think there's this perception at the moment that Liverpool will just see that tie through, you know, that they do have better players and in theory, a better team of players than Galatasaray. But Galatasaray do have some good individual players, you know, who can cause problems. They are ahead. It's a tie that I think is very awkward for Liverpool now, you know, because there's this sort of expectation and assumption that they will win. And you know what? Liverpool's record in Europe and knockout ties in the last six, seven, eight years at Anfield is actually not good. You know, I think they've won one in seven or eight, which is surprising when you actually think about it at the moment. It's not a place which is that. That difficult to go and get a result. And spurs proved that on Sunday on
- [06:54]
Ayo Akimolere
the Walk on podcast. Adam Simon, I'm going to quote you here. Simon said of Tottenham before this game that they don't know who they are and what they're trying to be. I guess you could probably say something quite similar of Liverpool this season in particular, but especially defensively, you know, a team last season that we were like, yeah, I mean, Van Dijk. Solid, brilliant, amazing. I mean, where do you think this all comes from? What feels like a very different team this season? Is it lack of confidence or is it something a little deeper?
- [07:23]
Adam Crafton
I know this because I listen to the Walk on podcast, but particularly and only in periods where Liverpool are struggling, because this is like in the same way as I do with all club podcasts, I find myself kind of attracted to them even more so in times where it's difficult just because you get this kind of outpouring at times of angst that's entertaining, recommend it to everyone. But something I wonder is whether when, when you have a group of players who are very, very used to on the whole, I mean the core group of players going for the biggest trophies and being in contention for the biggest trophies I do think they find it hard once the points of what they thought the season was has slipped away from them. So once the point of the season, which for Liverpool they've gone into this season basically expecting to challenge for the title at the least. And I think once it got to October, November and it was like oh well, what are we trying to be now? We're like Man United or Aston Villa. That's the group we're now in. I do think like some of those really big players probably struggle a little bit with that from a motivation perspective. Like do they really care like if Liverpool finish fifth or third? Because they are I think a group not so much the newer players but the ones who have been there a long time who expect to be first position or the second position. So I think that's probably a psychological adjustment for the team then I think there is an issue there in terms of some of the best players of the Klopp era just aren't as good as they were. You know, it now looks like the best of what was left of them we saw last season. Whether that's Van Dijk or Robertson. Salah most vividly Alisson even to a certain extent. Is it fair to say we've probably seen the best of him at this point? Maybe that's a bit harsh. So you've got some of these players who are on the Wayne merging with players who are either learning the league or developing and it has led to a kind of fusion and confusion, I think about not only what Liverpool's true level is but also what type of team they're trying to be. Because you have an old style that is kind of on its last legs and a newer style that is kind of being phased in. And I think the hope was you bring these two styles together and you get a fantastic team and a fantastic blend of experience and youth and it just hasn't worked out that way. And I understand what they were thinking at the start of the season because I think we all saw it. We all looked at this squad and thought oh my God, look at what they've spent and look at what they could be. But it just hasn't worked out like that.
- [10:03]
Ayo Akimolere
Adam makes a really good point and I love the way he put it there. Si. Fusion and confusion. Because in this fusion of the old and the new, there is a confusion in how they're going to play together. Is that what you're seeing as well?
- [10:15]
Simon Hughes
You know, I actually agree with pretty much everything Adam said. The quite unusual. I'd also recommend listening to the Man United podcast. When they lost, they lost the Europa League final to Tottenham last season. I very much enjoyed that addition.
- [10:29]
Adam Crafton
Si. Just let us know next season what that competition's like and report back.
- [10:35]
Simon Hughes
Ding, ding.
- [10:36]
Adam Crafton
Here we go.
- [10:36]
Ayo Akimolere
Come on.
- [10:37]
Simon Hughes
This is, this is like.
- [10:40]
Adam Crafton
This is childish. Childish. It's not what you expect from the, the Athletic FC podcast, is it?
- [10:46]
Simon Hughes
Quite impressive response from Adam there, I've got to say. Right, what was the question?
- [10:51]
Ayo Akimolere
Fusion and confusion.
- [10:52]
Simon Hughes
Fusion and confusion.
- [10:53]
Ayo Akimolere
Let's get back on it.
- [10:54]
Simon Hughes
I mean the bottom line for me is that there's, there's just not enough pace in the team. I think at this moment in time, if there was a bit more pace, Luis Diaz type pace, not saying Luis Diaz the player, but they have missed somebody like him who injected that bit of urgency into the play. You know, I think it's a confidence issue as well. Evidently you know, the players by the end of that Tottenham game, hacking at the ball like just, it was almost like they're trying to get the ball away from them. They didn't want possession of the ball, which is obviously a real concern. So it is layered. There's a feeling that at the moment that slot will be able to sort of steer this in the right direction eventually. When you know that, that, that fusion that Adam talks about, if it does work, you know he is the man to do it. But you know, I think sometimes results get in the way of these best laid plans. And if Liverpool were with to go out of the Champions League to Galatasaray, it's going to be really, really hard for, for slot to rescue back that trust.
- [11:57]
Adam Crafton
I think I'm curious about the, the kind of drop off that we see within games because like yesterday they did to me in the first half look like Liverpool playing at Anfield in terms of how I imagine that. But there's clearly this drop off that they get in the second half that also leads them dropping points late on in games. And I'm just curious what you think that's born out of whether it's a choice or whether they're not fit enough. Like what's it, where's it coming From.
- [12:25]
Simon Hughes
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting to hear you say that because yesterday I agree they did start with a bit more confidence and a bit more purpose, but it didn't result in two or three goals being scored and then just putting the game to bed. I think the best instincts of Anfield is served when you blow opponents away in the first half. Unfortunately at the moment it sort of feels like they're trying to sort of dominate the opposition, but in doing so, if you don't get a lead, you end up having to chase the game a little bit more. Anyway, it's leading to this sort of second half fall off which, you know, really caused some problems against spurs and has caused them problems a lot this season, I would say.
- [13:06]
Ayo Akimolere
Yes, sir. You touch on something we discuss on the athletics week in football, on how Liverpool struggle to control games and actually play quite slowly, fundamentally. And what Adam mentioned seems to be, I don't know, a team that's trying to overcome that. But fundamentally, as a structure from manager or coach to team, it just feels like a group of players and an establishment that's not quite confident in its own abilities. Would you agree?
- [13:34]
Simon Hughes
Well, this is the thing, confidence. How do you measure confidence really? And I think to play the style of football that Liverpool and Arnold Schloss I think wants to play, you have to be confident on the ball. You have to be prepared to get on the ball and do things and be patient as well and trust yourself for the chance to come, to be able to go and take that opportunity. But I think we've all been fooled into this idea that every team can play this way at certain phases because for so long Pep Guardiola's teams have done it so successfully, but they've only been able to do that because, you know, confidence begets performance, doesn't it? And performance begets confidence. It's very difficult to get into that space where you can just do it. But it's also ability. He's also had unbelievable ability of players that nine times out of 10 are going to deliver across that. Whereas at the moment, Liverpool, I think, you know, I think soon enough the questions will come about, you know, the quality of the players that they've signed. You know, all these players are lacking confidence as well, but it's whether they actually are. I am questioning increasingly whether some of the players are actually the shorter players that Liverpool need to be a good team.
- [14:42]
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- [17:21]
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- [18:00]
Ayo Akimolere
Adam, let's talk about Arnazlot's future. I mean many will look at what's happening with Liverpool right now and think, well, the manager needs to do better or the head coach needs to do better. But you know, do we need to look at the board as well? A little bit. Because when you talk about fusion of the older, the new, that structure of new recruitment was created by other people perhaps as well as Arnaz slot, you know, who says the team that he's got at his disposal is the best possible team he could be working with.
- [18:28]
Adam Crafton
Yeah, and I think when Liverpool spent what they spent last summer, I don't think the plan from the board would have been next summer we need to go and spend 150, 200 million. To be honest, I think it was probably a bit of a spend for the next couple of years in some ways. I know they had a sort of a quiet year the year before that, to be fair. But I think most of the signings made sense at the time. I think it's easy to sit here now and say this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong. What's different is that they've not all worked. And I still think, and I said this, I think after the community shield that Trent Alexander Arnold was always going to be a bigger miss than people by the end of his time at Liverpool wanted it to be. You know, there was almost this kind of sense of all right, you don't want us, then off you go. But he was an unbelievable player for Liverpool. He doesn't quite work at Real Madrid in the way that he worked at Liverpool in the way that he doesn't quite work for England in the way that he worked for Liverpool. But for Liverpool he was really irreplaceable. There is nobody quite like him. And that was always going to have an impact on the style of the team. Not only in kind of from a defensive point of view, but also the relationship with Salah, the way that he would come into midfield, it was just a lot of ways that he made that Liverpool team tick. Wirtz to me is interesting because to me when I think about Liverpool, their midfielders just don't play like Wirtz does. Their midfielders are up and down, their energy, they're a bit more limited, actually, they're a bit less skillful. Liverpool over the past 10 years or so haven't really done a number 10, apart from Coutinho for a short amount of time. That was another big stylistic shift to bring Wirtz in. And then there was the whole let's go and sign two center forwards. That was the bit that I don't think really made sense at all to me. And that's, that's not just because Isaac, you know, had difficulties and had injuries. It was a huge amount of money to spend on a position that they literally just strengthened while still leaving themselves short in that left sided forward position. I think what they really needed was pace in wide positions and another kind of holding midfielder. There's things that have kind of crept in. But I also do think there were things that were evident even in August, to be fair. And I do think that poses questions for people like Richard Hughes and Michael Edwards about just the squad composition and the squad planning and also Slot himself. I mean, I can't imagine all of these decisions were taken without any of his participation. You know, he has got a voice and I'm sure he was pretty excited at the time. I don't remember too many stories at the time saying on a Slot has concerns about signing all these players for this amount of money. So I might be wrong with that. So I might know differently. But the final point I'd say is we keep hearing like, oh, they've not got the squad that's perfect for the coach. You're very rarely going to have a squad that is absolutely perfect for what a coach wants. You can ask any coach in the world, are you happy with your squad? Very rarely will they say yes. It is up to a coach to maximize what is at his disposal. And Liverpool, regardless of those imbalances on the squad, should still be better than fifth or sixth this season. They should still be second or third based on what, what they've got available to them. And they should still be going beyond the round of 16 in the Champions League. So if that was to be the closed position, then Slot has failed. But if he can get it up to, I don't know, finishing fourth and getting to the Champions League semi finals. You can probably sort of shake hands and say it was icky but we got somewhere that's tolerable.
- [22:15]
Ayo Akimolere
Are you in agreement with Adam again, Simon? I saw you nodding a few times there.
- [22:19]
Simon Hughes
I was on the Trent Alexander Arnold points. The one thing that Liverpool certainly have lacked this season is the ability to be direct. Last season Mohamed Salah had an amazing season and a lot of that was born out of the relationship that he had had with Trent Alexander Arnold, you know, which had been built up over a long period of time. Quite often it was just the simple act of, you know, the right back getting the ball and getting it forward to Salah in an open position very quickly which allowed him to express himself. Liverpool haven't had that this season at all. But on the points about, you know, the, the sporting directors and Michael Edwards above that, I mean Liverpool got big decisions to make right across the club really and the people involved have got big decisions to make and they've gone from a position of winning the league not even 12 months ago to quite a lot of uncertainty potentially, you know, right across the senior levels of the club over the next 12 months. You know, I know football moves on very quickly but Richard Hughes contract runs out I think in the same summer as Arna slots. I believe that Michael Edwards contract runs to the same, you know, the same period. So you've got three senior figures whose contracts are all running out at the same time. So where I'm a bit uncomfortable with everything is, you know, if Liverpool are making or inquiring or thinking about making a change about slot that there is not indication at the moment, certainly not you know, publicly. But if they are, you know, any, any manager, any agents is going to want to know, you know, are these guys who are hiring me, are they, are they sticking for the long term as well? So I think that needs to be cleared up pretty quickly by fsg. So it comes back to the owners. We've spoken so much about how well Liverpool are run over a long period of time. Well, they've allowed a situation where you've got three senior figures all out of contract in the same summer and no indication of what is going to happen with each of these figures at the moment. So it's all very well saying well change the manager. But what's going on with the people who are making those decisions?
- [24:21]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, very quickly Si. You know, obviously Chelsea and Villa both suffered defeats. Liverpool had that chance to go fourth, fifth might still be enough for the Champions League. But if slot doesn't get champ league with this team. Do we have to start talking about what might happen for him next season?
- [24:37]
Simon Hughes
Yeah, well, I think first and foremost it's the Galatasaray match, isn't it? And if Liverpool were to get knocked out there, I mean he's going to come under huge pressure. Even though they're behind in the tie, they have to win it. It won't even be framed as like a really good recovery by Liverpool after a difficult away leg. It's like simply there's an expectation that Liverpool win this game. What comes next after that. I mean Liverpool have to have to try and finish in the top five. I mean it's still not. It's still pretty achievable. I would say one way of looking at it will be you know the one point closer to where they wanted to be given the results to Chelsea and Villa, you know, over the weekends. But the problem with Liverpool have got is that I think the problem that Slot has particularly is that he has to put a run together I think to inspire trust again in him. You know, they have to do something that hasn't been achieved this season which it just feels like they're going around in circles a lot at the moment. Liverpool so they need to get out of that cycle pretty quickly if, if the conversation about slot is to change. I think.
- [25:37]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, I wonder how that conversation will also affect the name Xabi Alonso. Adam. I mean I don't know if it's me being a bit too basic but I mean it feels quite obvious, doesn't it?
- [25:48]
Adam Crafton
It does feel obvious except he's just been at a pretty big club. It didn't go very well. I know people write that off as oh, you know, Real Madrid's a crazy club. Okay, fine. But you know he went in with a very thick, with a pretty fixed style. Does that style suit the players Liverpool have? Maybe in the sense of you know, sort of plays a bit more with wing backs. And we've seen obviously what Sai was saying about Frimpong and Kirk has maybe more suited that way. But then Liverpool would need to sign a few center backs. I think they would need more legs in midfield. And then obviously Wirtz has that experience of having played with him previously and you could have you know, I guess two strikers in that system. So it's not, it's not a kind of impossible thing. But I don't know, it feels weird to me to imagine Liverpool with a three man defense. It's just not something you know, we are used to seeing and there's not too many teams who have had huge success in the Premier League. Conte's Chelsea aside, really, maybe Brentford, Thomas Frank, who have had real, you know, extended success with the three at the back. So I'm not sure that's as obvious a fit necessarily as. As people think. But, yeah, clearly he is out there. I imagine he would probably take the job and I'm sure he would be a contender if they chose to let slot go. But. But it is noticeable that, you know, there hasn't been, you know, a spate of stories of uncertainty about slots future. I must say, to be fair, like, I do think if you win your league, the league in the first season and then if you get yourself in the Champions League, even if it's by hook or crook finishing fifth, I do think you deserve another year to kind of try and get yourself out of the little rut that you're in. Obviously, if they were to miss out altogether, because that would mean six, it's harder to make the argument. But I still think, you know, the guys won the league. He's won the. That should. It's kind of mad to think about someone being fired a year after winning the league, but I. I think that is also very possible.
- [27:55]
Ayo Akimolere
He's won the league. Si. He's won the league. Let's not forget that. And Liverpool were champions of the Premier League last season. Come on.
- [28:02]
Simon Hughes
I certainly haven't. No. I think he has earned the right to try and get Liverpool out of this situation. I can understand people's frustrations. I think that at the start of the season, you know, what Liverpool did in the transfer market made a lot of people just believe that the title was a procession. That's the reality. They were the conversations that I was having and I was like, really? You know, do you equate that level of change to just success? Follow. And I, I certainly didn't. I do have. I think there's a lot of mitigation for slot, huge amounts of mitigation in terms of what he's had to deal with this season, stuff that other managers have never had to deal with. You know, we've spoken many times about Diogo Jota. I think people get bored of listening to that argument and it feels like it's a bit of a cop out. But there was absolutely no doubt that starting a Premier League season, a title defence, not even five weeks after one of your players has died in a car crash. I don't know how you managed to even get the team together, to be honest. And Then you know, Liverpool have had a huge amount of injuries in similar areas of the pitch all the time. There's all sorts of way you could analyze that. The bottom line is at the moment, you know, he is in a bad position and if you lose, I think if you lose the match going crowd, it's difficult to get back. You know, I think that is ultimately what will define whether he stays or goes.
- [29:20]
Adam Crafton
What was satisfied. Where is the crowd then at the moment? Because obviously yesterday looked strange on tv.
- [29:25]
Simon Hughes
Yeah, I mean most people at the moment that I speak to anyway, I'm massively frustrated. But you know, I think they realize making a change now doesn't make any, any sense really because you've got such a narrow field of people to choose from and there isn't, you know, an outstanding candidate waiting to take the job. I agree with some of the points that you made about Xavier Alonso. I think he would be the natural one that you'd look to take it. But then I think a lot of that is because his association with the club rather than necessarily his experience or where he's at in terms of his own career. I think most people would like him to solve this. Of course they want him to solve it. But there is the reality that it can't really go on forever. You can't just give an indefinite period of time for him to solve Liverpool's problems that they have. So what I would like to see ahead of the Galatasaray game, which is what he did actually when he plays in some man, he changed the shape of the team to fit the players that he's got. He needs to show that just doing the same thing over and over again in terms of the shape of the team, you know, it isn't working at the moment. And if he, if he, if he shows some intuition and some change, I think that's a positive for me at the moment. You know, I think there's a big disparity between what you read online and what people actually feel, you know, when they actually go to the match. And at the moment people's patience is wearing thin, but he can't rescue it, but he needs to do something about it pretty quickly.
- [30:55]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, well, that's Liverpool dealt with for the time being. Let's look at all the other teams still on the hunt for Champions League qualification.
- [31:07]
Max Rushton
Looking for soccer analysis more knowing than a Carlo Ancelotti eyebrow raise with the World cup around the corner. Join me, Max Rushton and the Guardian's expert soccer journalist on Football Weekly for all the latest soccer action and news throughout the week. We'll cover more ground than Jude Bellingham in a Champions League final with conversations sharper than an Arsenal set piece for fine margins, fun debates and full blooded tackles. Football Weekly Listen wherever you get your podcasts and watch the full episodes on YouTube.
- [31:33]
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- [32:04]
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- [32:15]
Simon Hughes
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- [32:18]
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- [32:31]
Ayo Akimolere
All right, so in terms of where the results leave the race for European football, Adam Manchester United third in the Premier League at this moment in time. Carrick doing what Carrick does beautifully. Manchester United beat Aston Villa 3 1. You tweeted Bruno Fernandez for Player of the Year. Is that for Manchester United or the Premier League in general?
- [32:52]
Adam Crafton
No, no, for the Premier League.
- [32:54]
Ayo Akimolere
Oh wow.
- [32:54]
Adam Crafton
No, no. I mean, he's been the best player to watch. I think Arsenal have two or three players who I think may be better candidates, but in the sense of just kind of, you know, the quality in their positions, perhaps you could argue maybe Gabrielle Timber has been very good. Rice, obviously. But in terms of the player who has most regularly sort of excited me in a season that has not always felt that exciting from a entertainment perspective and also his output overtaking, I think David Beckham's record yesterday for the most assists in a season. In a team that's not always been very good at all. Often he's been sort of forced to play quite deep in midfield before Carrick came in. I think his level has been unbelievable. I think it's possible that he wins it because I think there's a possibility that Rice sort of blows it out of the water. But I think there's also a chance that the vote is split between a few different Arsenal players. And as we've said a few times, it's very weird to have a team that's going to win the league in Arsenal and they are going to Win the league be without an outstanding attacking player. There isn't an attacking player that you look at Arsenal and think he's the player of the year. That very rarely happens. So in terms of the player who's kind of made me most on the edge of my seat, it's been Fernandez. And yesterday again, two assists. One was a set piece but the ball for Cunha was unbelievable. And he has in some ways sort of not single handedly, but he has really kind of carried Manchester United to this position. He's always available, his quality is fantastic and yeah, he's been very good.
- [34:36]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, si. As for Chelsea, they dropped to sixth after just one win in five. They obviously lost to Newcastle on the weekend and today they've been handed a suspended transfer ban and a 10 million pound fine for breaching Premier League rules during Roman Abramovich's time as the owner. Can you see this team finding some consistency, Simon?
- [34:59]
Simon Hughes
Not at the moment, no. I don't think they've got the quality in the team if I'm being honest. You know, in terms of the amount of money that Chelsea have spent just to sort of go slowly backwards is, is quite an achievement really. I don't think, you know, they've got a manager whose track record or experience suggests that they'll get there. The only thing is, you know, the teams below them aren't particularly good either. So they do. It's not, not. It's not a reflection of their quality. It's just a reflection of sort of the chaos of a lot of clubs that experience and including Liverpool this season. I haven't really been impressed by Chelsea at all this season, if I'm being honest. Very inconsistent. Like Liverpool, not Manchester United. To quite the same point. Which is why I suppose that there's so much uncertainty about who will qualify for the Champions League. Because none of the teams are that good really I think at the moment. So it could go to any of them.
- [35:55]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. If you want more on Chelsea's suspended transfer ban and also the fine, head over to the Athletic to find out more.
- [36:02]
Simon Hughes
And here's Dalman with an open goal.
- [36:07]
Ayo Akimolere
Surely the youngster is going to become
- [36:10]
Simon Hughes
the youngest Premier League goalscorer.
- [36:13]
Ayo Akimolere
All right, before we wrap up, gents, just indulge me for a second because Arsenal went nine points clear of Manchester City with an incredible cameo from a 16 year old by the name of Max Dalman who became the youngest goal scorer in Premier League history. I was at the stadium, it was pandemonium, elation, exhaustion. Oh, can we just say was that the moment that Arsenal potentially let everyone know this is their year to win the Premier League.
- [36:39]
Simon Hughes
To be honest, I mean, I, I thought long ago, you know, looking at it from a, a slightly more balanced point of view, I know you've got an emotional attachment to this. I, yeah, I mean, I just, I think Arsenal perform like Champions. I mean, I, I, I sort of understand the conversation around Arsenal. You know, they're not great to watch, but I think we've totally lost the conversation around football sometimes. I mean, Arsenal aren't there to entertain fans of rival clubs. They're there to win the League and make their fans happy. And if you're happy, then that is the only thing that matters at this moment in time. You know, I grew up watching George Graham's Arsenal, who, without sounding like a proper man in the pub again, you know, it was 1 nil to the Arsenal and it was legendary. And then Wenger comes along, changes the way we think about football, changes the whole image of Arsenal as a team and an expectation around the way they play. I understand, you know, Arteta sort of taken it back a bit, but he's still got some great players in that team who were capable, you know, in the right moments, of really hurting you. Do I really want to see set pieces forming such a huge part of, of a team's identity? Probably not, but who cares what I think? You know, it's Arsenal are there to go and win the League for Arsenal supporters, nobody else. If they do it that way and they do it better than anybody else, then I can only applaud them. It's very difficult to win a League. And having watched Liverpool for such a long period of time, knowing how long it is to wait to go and win the League, it's been a long, long time for Arsenal going on when I was a title. If that's what gets them there, then fair play to Arteta for delivering it and the players for buying into the idea, because there's a lot to admire about that. I think it strikes against actually what some of those players would probably prefer to be doing. So to get players to buy into it and encourage for them to deliver it, I think is quite an impressive achievement by Arteta in its own right.
- [38:35]
Adam Crafton
Yeah, it was an open goal, wasn't it, Diamond?
- [38:38]
Simon Hughes
Yes.
- [38:40]
Ayo Akimolere
You discounted all the other work you did before it got there. Come on.
- [38:43]
Adam Crafton
No, I'm joking, joking. It was an amazing moment. It was really. When he came on, I actually thought it was almost like, it felt almost like a slightly desperate move from Arteta. The state of the game. Because Everton, I thought, did really well, you know, without Tarkovsky, without Branthwaite. And they. They frustrated Arsenal in the way that Everton often do away from home, in the way that Arsenal can often be frustrated at home as well, by teams sitting in. And that Darman move, it was like. It was almost like, I don't know who to turn to, to. To actually unlock this. And part of me thought, oh, God, he's just throwing a. He's throwing literally a child into this. This tent. Tent stadium. You know, the. The fans were groaning a bit. It was. It was that. It was like, oh, could it be happening again? Kind of feeling that I felt from. From the Emirates. And actually, and. And again, this is a moment defined by the outcome in terms of the perception. But what it was was you're throwing someone in who doesn't feel that weight, who isn't overthinking it, who's actually just going out onto the pitch and thinking, oh, my God, I'm a kid and I'm playing at Arsenal. And, you know, he had one chance, didn't he, where he kind of leaned back and put it over the top? I think that one. He almost had too much time in some ways, because the move was building up and he was by himself waiting for the ball. But actually, there was a few moments there wasn't just the goal, there was moments where he took it and he kind of moved. I'm doing that thing where people sort of build people up and compare it to people. But he moved a bit like Phil Foden does in terms of the way that he kind of like, jinked away from players and carried the ball and he wasn't worried. The quality, obviously, for the ball that led to the first goal, by the way, Pickford. Honestly, it's a good job for Pickford that Dalman had his moment, because if not, we'd be talking a lot about the way Pickford came through it and missed it. But then the quality of. I don't think there's been enough, actually, about the quality of the goal, from Dalman itself, you know, to the composure, to take it past those two players, leave them on the deck. I know obviously they're tired players, but to run it all that way, it's not. It's not an easy thing to do. And he made it look very easy. And it is one of those. I think it is actually one of the most iconic moments in the history of the Premier League. I think it's a moment we will for Arsenal fans in the same way, as you know, Manchester United fans will look back at, I don't know, Makeda's goal against Aston Villa. Look at Ayo, look at the smile on his face. The Tony Adams goal against Everton. I do think, you know, the way it brought together the players, the fans, the celebration from Arteta on the touchline, like Mo Salah's goal for Liverpool against Manchester United a few years ago very late on in a game to make it 2 nil. That that moment where everyone all of a sudden believes we're doing it, you know, and that doubt is dispelled. And I mean, if they blow it from here, my God, I knew you
- [41:52]
Ayo Akimolere
were going to end with that. I knew you were going to end with that. You were giving me all that joy. You just had to bring me back down to earth. All right, jets, let's leave it there. Honestly, thoroughly enjoyed that sigh. Adam. Appreciate your time and also thank you guys for joining us as well. We'll be back soon.
- [42:09]
Athletic FC Advertiser
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- [42:26]
Simon Hughes
Production.
- [42:40]
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- [43:12]
Max Rushton
Now, do you want your soccer analysis more direct than an Arsenal set piece? Join me, Max Rushton and the Guardian's expert soccer journalist for the latest action and news from the Premier League to the Champions League and all the way to the World cup, we'll have chat more out of the box box than a Dominik Szobozlai Free Kick. More panellists than Chelsea have players. And unlike var, we know where to draw the line for fine margins, fun debates and full blooded tackles. Football Weekly Listen wherever you get your podcasts and watch the full episodes on YouTube.
- [43:38]
Adam Crafton
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