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- [00:01]
Adam Leventhal
Hear that? Spring is here and the Home Depot has great prices on grills to make this season yours. So if you're working on improving your hosting skills, you're going to want the next grill four burner gas grill for $229. And of course, pair it with the next grill eight piece grill tool set. Now get outside and show off those new skills. Shop a wide selection of grills under $300 at the home Depot.
- [00:31]
Tim Spears
With the Venmo Debit card, you can turn the mini golf outing your co workers paid you back for into a.
- [00:39]
Adam Leventhal
Trip to Miami with your best friend.
- [00:41]
Simon Johnson
Earning you up to 5% cash back.
- [00:45]
Tim Spears
Use Venmo to pay for the things you love to do. Visit Venmo Me Debit to learn more. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. pursuant to license by MasterCard International, Inc. Terms apply. Dosh Cashback terms apply. You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries. You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first.
- [01:16]
Simon Johnson
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [01:24]
Adam Leventhal
Hi there, I'm Adam Levanthal. Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast. Coming up, the summer transfer window doesn't open until mid June, yet Chelsea are not waiting around having already agreed deals for Dario Asugo and Giovanni Quenda. So why are Chelsea doing their business so early and should other clubs be following suit? Well, with me for this one is our Chelsea reporter, Simon Johnson and Tim Spears as well. Simon, let's start with you. What are the deals then that Chelsea have already agreed to ahead of this summer window?
- [01:58]
Simon Johnson
The Eager Beavers well, apart from the two you've already mentioned, there's a few more that will be joining up with the club this summer. Kendrick Paez, a deal that was done a couple of years ago. He's actually already started doing some assimilation, some sort of integration and he's been at Cobham for a few weeks and so on. There's Esteban Willian, the sort of the rising star of Brazilian football coming from Palmeiras. And then in January they signed very difficult negotiation. One they signed Mamadou Saw from their sister club Strasbourg, a center back. He'll also be coming in. So, so that's three players plus Sugo who's coming in this summer. In Kenda's case, he'll be arriving in in the summer of 2026. So a bit more of a wait to see him in action.
- [02:49]
Adam Leventhal
Why in particular those two players, Sugo and Quenda? What's the background on them?
- [02:55]
Simon Johnson
Well, I'll start with Isuga simply because he's. He's actually going to be joining first. So what Chelsea want is they. They feel that there's an absence or a lack of backup for Moises Caicedo and they see him as someone that can. That can provide that backup. They also move for him early because they're aware of five, six clubs that were keen to get him as well and Canada. It's Chelsea love wingers. This guy is they. They see as one of the best young wingers or youngsters in the world, along with Esteval Willian and Yamal of Barcelona. They put him on, they sort of see him in that sort of caliber of player. And again, they move for him because of the. So early, because of the competition for him. Manchester United were very keen on him. There was another club currently in the top three that were making strong moves to sign him. I think there were clubs in Europe too. So it's a case of Chelsea not wanting to be beaten to the pudd and they see him spending another year at Sporting as giving him that extra bit of experience, so that by the time he joins up with Chelsea, he'll have played like a good hundred games and be ready to make an impact.
- [04:06]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, and there's a piece out now on the Athletic on Quenda from. From Liam Toomey and Jack Lang mentioning those similarities with Lamine Yamal. So, yeah, if that all comes out, then. Then Chelsea might have a real gem. But they are still signing prospects, aren't they? And I guess that will frustrate the fans again.
- [04:28]
Simon Johnson
Yeah, Chelsea fans are in a sort of perennial state of frustration. Yeah, I mean, it's a totally different way of operating than they used to from the Roman Abramovich era, where by and large Chelsea bought finished articles that would come in slot straight in and needed no time to adapt and fulfill their potential because they'd already fulfilled their potential elsewhere. Yeah, there will be frustration because they'll sort of see, well, why aren't they Chelsea concentrating on a center forward that. That's been one of the big gaping holes in this squad. Well, Chelsea are working on a center forward, but there's no, there's no guarantees. This will be like a. An Andrey Shevchenko or a Fernando Torres that Chelsea spent an absolute fortune on in the Abramovich time, who neither of them particularly succeeded. But Chelsea are working on a center forward and another winger because of course they have to replace the currently suspended Mikhailo Mudryk. And of course they're concern that he's facing a lengthy ban if his doping test comes up positive as well.
- [05:30]
Adam Leventhal
I mean, you mentioned a couple of the other players who are also essentially prospects but very gifted at the same time. The likes of Estival, Andres Santos, Kendri Pires as well. Do you know if they are going to be ready for next season in terms of having an impact in the first team or is that very much tbc?
- [05:50]
Simon Johnson
Definitely two of the three I'm pretty convinced by as things stand. Andres Santos, he's had a really good loan at Strasbourg course had didn't really do anything in his first loan at Nottingham Forest, was barely played there. But since he's gone to Strasbourg, he's become and emerged as one of, one of, if not the best midfielder in Ligue 1. So Chelsea wants to recall him and understandably so. But he has been quoted talking a little bit mixed messages about where his future lies, leaving that little door ajar, as players like to do. But he's certainly someone that Chelsea value sort of really highly and rate very highly. Esteban Willian is definitely going to be a part of things. The only question mark is Kendrick Paez, who has had a little bit of a tricky time since agreeing to join Chelsea, perhaps taking his eye off the ball a little bit back home whilst playing for Independiente. But in saying that, I have been told that he's being seen as kind of like talking of backups, kind of seeing as a backup role for Enzo Fernandez. So certainly look, Chelsea haven't bought these guys just to, just to sort of make up the numbers. They're seen as three very exciting prospects.
- [07:04]
Adam Leventhal
It's funny you say make up the numbers, it's just the fact that those numbers are so large in terms of making up the overall numbers.
- [07:11]
Simon Johnson
Yeah, I should finish with Paez that the only question mark is whether they decide. There is that sort of slight question mark whether they decide to loan him just to get a bit more experience. But, but in saying that, like I said, he is sort of seen as someone that could sort of help rotate with Fernandez a little bit.
- [07:30]
Adam Leventhal
Let's bring Tim in on the conversation because I know that your opinion on Chelsea this season, correct me if I'm wrong, it sort of ebbed and flowed a little bit. June is going to mark the third anniversary of the Clear Lake and you know, Todd Boehly's 2.3 billion pound takeover of Chelsea. Have you worked out what the transfer strategy is now? I mean, it looks, it looks relatively obvious that yeah, they're buying prospects for the future. But do you think that it's workable.
- [08:02]
Tim Spears
I'm sure there are very well thought out strategies in place and, you know, squad planning and succession planning, and things are only done via, you know, very rigorous scouting and sort of lengthy negotiations and, you know, sound financial planning. I'm sure all that does happen. But, you know, from the outside, apart from sort of the recurring theme of youth in terms of an overall strategy, yeah, it's hard to put your finger on it, especially when there's sort of like these countless examples of unusual things happening, right? You know, the club doing one thing and then six months later doing another. I mean, this has been happening for a few years now, but even just taking very recent examples, such as, you know, Joao Felix coming in, which everyone was very surprised about, for a lot of money at the end of the last window and then loaned out in the next window. Renato Vega, I thought was a really strange one because he. He seemed to be doing really well and seemed to fit the mold of a young player bought for a decent price. And I think he played 18 times in all comps and wasn't a regular starter, but was a very good squad player. Broke into the Portugal squad. I watched him a couple of times for Portugal at center. I thought it was great. And then all of a sudden he's. He's out on loan again in January. So that's a strange one. You got Trevor Chalaba being sent out, no squad number, bomb squad, seemingly no future, and then he's brought back as the sort of defensive savior in January. All that kind of suggests, you know, muddled thinking, I guess. Sancho on the horizon is another decision that went one way and is going to go another, and then, you know, for a club that buys and buys and buys, doesn't buy a goalkeeper in January, which just bizarre to me because it seemed obvious last August that, you know, that was their weakest position. I remember us talking about it on this podcast saying, you know, they're going to need a goalkeeper at some point. Mistakes over the season have only sort of, you know, exacerbated that. So all those things are just. Just odd. They don't point to a strategy. I really admire what they're doing in terms of, you know, scouring the world for. Simon talks about the next big things in Brazilian football, you know, and that's great, but, you know, who's to say he won't be sold again in a year's time? That's just. That's just what they do. And then you throw into that Maresca, who's got this very specific style. And the players that bought in. Pedro Neto left, you know, Mikaela Wolves, you know, he's counterattack through and through and he's all about quick play and then he's playing in this sort of pedestrian passing game. Yeah, none of that makes sense to me. Adam, can I.
- [10:24]
Simon Johnson
Can I quickly jump in, thankfully, because Tim's just sort of. It's hard sometimes to remember everything that Chelsea are doing off the top of your head. Talks about goalkeepers. So another one that's coming in the summer that I left off at the top of the show, Mike Penders, who's sort of seen as the next Thibaut Courtois in Belgium. He's coming from Genk. So. So there's an. There's another goalkeeper to add to the. The sort of. The. The cozy dressing room corner that's going to be the goalkeeping department.
- [10:53]
Adam Leventhal
Just correct me if I'm wrong. Simon and Tim mentioned it there. Yes, they're buying prospects, they're buying the next big thing. But it's not akin to Brighton, for example, and I know Brighton have spent money on. On some next big things as well, but it's. They are buying very obvious next big things, it seems, and paying a premium for them. It's not like they're getting bargains and unearthing gems from absolutely nowhere, are they.
- [11:22]
Simon Johnson
I would argue that there's sort of a bit of both. So in Kendrick Paez's case, he's in the. I'm trying to remember his fee, but it was below 20 minutes. There's a lot of sums in that sort of department. I think actually a lot of the frustration that the Chelsea fans feel is that they don't go out and say, goalkeeper going on to Tim's point, let's go get the best keeper in the world instead. They've. They've spent 25 million on Rob Sanchez. They spent a similar amount on Jorgensen, on Petrovic. Sort of like the. These sort of. So. So goalkeepers. I mean, I actually think their best goalkeeper. Petrovic is on loan at Strasbourg. It's just. It's just a bizarre turn events. He actually did all right in the second half of last season. But Maresca wanted for some reason Rob Sanchez he saw as better with the ball at his feet and that sort of left little room for Peckovic. And as we've seen over the last, what is it now, seven months, we've seen very little evidence of Robert Sanchez being particularly good with the ball at his feet. If anything, he's been one of the sort of biggest problems Chelsea have had to cope with because he keeps giving the ball away in dangerous areas.
- [12:39]
Tim Spears
Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real, and so is the relief from Ebglis.
- [12:46]
Simon Johnson
After an initial dosing phase of 16 weeks, about 4 in 10 people taking.
- [12:50]
Tim Spears
EBGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin, and most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.
- [12:57]
Adam Leventhal
EBGLIS Lebrikizumab LBKZ, a 250mg per 2ml.
- [13:01]
Tim Spears
Injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults, children 12 years of age and older, who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. Ebglis can be used with or without topical corticosteroids.
- [13:18]
Adam Leventhal
Don't use if you're allergic to Eglis.
- [13:20]
Tim Spears
Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Ebglis. Before starting Ebglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief. Ask your doctor about epglis and visit.
- [13:34]
Simon Johnson
Epglis.Lilly.Com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.
- [13:40]
Adam Leventhal
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- [14:09]
Simon Johnson
Today at T Mobile, I'm joined by a special co anchor. What up everybody? It's your boy. Big Snoop deal. Double G Snoop where can people go to find great deals? Head to T mobile.com and get four iPhone 16s with Apple Intelligence on us plus four lines for 25 bucks. That's quite a deal, Snoop. And when you switch to T Mobile, you can save versus the other big guys. Comparable plans plus streaming respect. We up out of here.
- [14:33]
Adam Leventhal
See how you can save on wireless and streaming versus the other big guys.
- [14:35]
Tim Spears
@T mobile.com/apple intelligence requires iOS 18.1 or later.
- [14:43]
Adam Leventhal
Now, many people will have seen Jaden Sancho arrive at Chelsea and arrive and make an impact. And it looked as if he'd been, you know, released from the negative situation at Manchester United and was going to blossom. But just outline exactly what the. The agreement is with Manchester United if he doesn't end up signing at Chelsea permanently.
- [15:06]
Simon Johnson
Yeah, so there's been a lot sort of said about the. There's being a penalty fee and the Athletic revealed earlier this week that that penalty fee, which essentially is the loan fee, will be 5 million pounds. Chelsea didn't pay a loan fee to begin with. They're paying around half of his wages at Manchester United. So when you actually look at the structure of the deal, whilst it hasn't eventually worked out, because I actually thought Jadon Sancho made a pretty promising start to his Chelsea career, certainly the first half of the season, he. He quickly matched the amount of assists that he. That he got at Manchester United with within a short amount of time. The Chelsea fans were chanting his name. But a bit like Chelsea themselves under Maresca, the last two or three months he's gone off the boil and it's looking increasingly like. Although I'm assured that no decision has been made yet and that it will be assessed at the end of the season. But I'll be surprised as things stand if Jadon Sancho ends up a Chelsea player still, because it just feels like the mood has started to shift towards him going back to Manchester United. And I have to say, for five million and a half his wages, it suddenly doesn't look like a horrifically expensive mistake, even though it hasn't particularly worked out brilliantly.
- [16:23]
Adam Leventhal
And what plans are already underfoot for, or underway, I should say, for other departures this summer. What are the murmurings of ones that maybe aren't out there yet?
- [16:33]
Simon Johnson
Well, essentially the lone players is where Chelsea are looking to not only sell, but to fund the big purchase of a striker and another winger apart from Andres Santos. Although I hasten to add, I carefully add there's always that room for manoeuvre. If a club came in and made a stupid offer for someone, I think Chelsea are always going to sort of perhaps listen to it. But as I said earlier, Santos is being lined up to be part of the squad. So then you're looking at players like Axel Disassi, who's on loan Aston Villa and seems to have made a good impact there and certainly enjoying his football more there than he did at Chelsea. Goalkeeper. There's another goalkeeper in Kepa at Bournemouth of it's time for him to move on for sure. Armando Broyer, who they tried to sell last summer and they'll try again. Currently on loan at Everton. Ben Chilwell, Raheem Sterling. How long have you got, Adam? It's quite a long list. Yeah, but it's easier said than done. That's the thing.
- [17:37]
Adam Leventhal
And just a word from you, Simon, because I wanted to throw a question to Tim and this leads us there. How much of a say does Enzo Maresca get on all of this in terms of recruitment?
- [17:48]
Simon Johnson
Oh, he has his say. It's a bit like any Chelsea head coach in previous years. They have their say question marks over how much of a say. I mean Chelsea's long term strategy is always going to be in the minds of the co owners and the recruiting team led by the co sporting directors Paul Winstani and Lawrence Stewart. Chelsea aren't going to give the keys to the kingdom. They're not going to make the mistake that Manchester united made with 10 hag for example. This is the whole point of having a sporting structure is having people that oversee his strategy which, whether Chelsea fans like it or not, we've all seen this is what we're on the show talk about young players with potential that hopefully will come good and become world stars. But yeah, he'll have his say. I mean we've seen, we've seen him leave players out very early on in last summer's preseason. As I've already mentioned, it was his decision to make Rob Sanchez the first choice goalkeeper over Petrovic. So he will have his, have his moments. But I think the general philosophy is still being that the ship is still being steered by the people above him.
- [18:54]
Adam Leventhal
And that said, Tim, I suppose you have to assess how well Mareska has done this season. Obviously they're fourth in the table at the moment and many people after their recent season struggles will see that as a success. But how much impact is he going to have in the summer and therefore if he's going to be asked who he thinks he wants to work with next season, does that lead us to think that there's going to be plenty of players on the periphery and another sort of bomb squad situation this summer?
- [19:28]
Tim Spears
I mean, by virtue of having so many players on the books, it's hard to avoid some kind of bomb squad scenario. I think we probably gave them all a little bit too much stick for that last summer. You know, they were trying to get rid of some players on very high wages, you know, sterling and Chilwell, etc. Who hadn't sort of done it for a while, you know, But Chelsea are and make themselves such an easy target because they spend so much money. I mean, Maresca's future's a really interesting issue. You know, the sort of contradiction. And he had it at Leicester, to be fair, the contradiction between what the players think of him and what the fans think of him generally seems to be pretty different. I remember seeing this at Wolves years ago under Glenn Hoddle. The players absolutely loved Glenn Hoddle. They thought he was fantastic, technically gifted, could teach some things they'd never heard before. But the football was really boring and stifling and yeah, technically very lovely, but dull. And the fans wanted him out and ultimately, you know, he didn't last too long. So I think. I think that's going to be an important issue for the summer and whether Chelsea continue to progress naturally over the next sort of couple of years. And he has, you know, you can argue about the football, but he has made a good improvement there. You know, they've gone from 12th to 6th, potentially 4th this year, and winning a trophy on top of that. If they win the Conference League, as they should do, then that's a pretty. That's a pretty successful season, I think, you know, despite the money that they've spent.
- [20:44]
Adam Leventhal
And Simon, how much of this sort of early business being done is based on the fact that this summer is going to be particularly hectic with the Club World cup and Chelsea participating in that in the States.
- [20:57]
Simon Johnson
It is a big factor because obviously the time in the Club World cup and if Chelsea, as they hope, get to the final, which is on July 13, is a massive hindrance to their preseason, essentially this will be treated as. As their preseason. That means they want players, the new additions, to be part of the squad. Of course, Estevao William playing for Palmeiras, so he can't join up, but they want the bulk of the squad to be together for the tournament so that when. When the tournament finishes, they can. They can go off on their. On their holidays and then there'll be a. Obviously a minor sort of preseason just ahead of the start of the Premier League season. But because of the tight gap between the end of the Club World cup and the start of the Premier League season, it really restrict what Chelsea can do before. Before the season starts. So that's why they want these players in. And of course, as we heard the news yesterday, there is a sort of special transfer window opening from June 1 to June 10 that has been agreed by the Premier League. And this was brought in by FIFA to help clubs that are participating in the Club World Cup. So I wouldn't be surprised if Chelsea try and get their business done in that. In that sort of June 1st to 10th win in terms of incomings. Like I said, they definitely want a striker and a win, and you can imagine that they would want to be part of, part of the squad in that month to be competing in America.
- [22:22]
Adam Leventhal
Tim, when you look at the other teams in the Premier League, where do you put Chelsea's transfer strategy in the pecking order in terms of effectiveness? And also other clubs looking at it and going, oh, wow, I wish we were doing it that way. Do you think people are envious of the business that Chelsea are doing, or are they still maybe as confused as sometimes you are? Not in general, but just on. On Chelsea.
- [22:48]
Tim Spears
They'll be envious of the money that they've got to spend, for sure. But I. I mean, you know, Chelsea have got the most expensive squad ever assembled in the history of football. You can't. You can't look away from that. And they've not got, you know, they're not going to show for it, really. You know, we're talking. They might have spent a billion, a billion and a half. The net spend is sort of 800 million, I think, in the last five years, according to Transfermarkt, by far the most in the Premier League. And in those five years, which sort of started with the season they won the Champions League, you know, they've massively regressed. I know they've been through huge turmoil and huge changes in terms of the ownership and staff and management and players, but they haven't got much to show for it yet. You know, 12th, 6th, maybe 4th, 5th, 6th again. Obviously, they've gone down a very different route with their strategy. And maybe in three years, you know, these players sort of beautifully mature and grow together, and everyone says Chelsea were right, you know, and they win the Champions League, and Caicedo and Fernandez and Jackson and Palmer, you know, are all superstars in their own right, but I just. I personally, I just don't really see that happening. I do admire them for trying something, something different. And we see that elsewhere in the Premier League, I guess, with the likes of Brentford and, and Brighton, of course, as well. But. But Chelsea, the world's biggest spenders, you know, they don't have to be that clever. They have. They don't have to buy potential. You know, they've always had this sort of revolving door of manager sacking good managers after a season and, and revolving door of players. But you know, they would go out and, and then hire World cup winning managers or Champions League winning managers rather than some guys just won the championship. Or, you know, they'd go and bring in Savchenko or Ballack or Thiago Silva rather than, you know, Dewsbury Hall. So it's, it's very, it's, you know, I'm picking out silly examples perhaps, but it's this, this truth to it. I just, I don't see why when they've got so much money to spend and they're the world's biggest spenders and it's the most expensively assembled squad in history, they're still buying potential because there's so much risk. Loaded with that.
- [24:44]
Adam Leventhal
We'll talk about Enzo Maresca and the key factor of getting into the Champions League a little bit later on in the show. But just a quick word from you, Simon, on what you've been doing on the Straight Outta Cobham podcast, our dedicated Chelsea podcast. Cause it's a special series celebrating 120 years of Chelsea. Just give us a little bit of an insight into that.
- [25:07]
Simon Johnson
Okay, so we've all got together the sort of regulars on the Chelsea beat and essentially there's three different episodes. So you've got the pre Abramovic era. Yes, Chelsea did exist before 2003, I can confirm. Then there is of course a section, its own right of the Abramovich era, rightly sort of focused on 19 major trophies in as many years. And then the final episode sort of covers what's happened in the last three years under the new owners and asking the questions of where a bit like what we're doing now, where's the club going? What's the direction? What you have to say is the biggest success story of the new owners, and this is right at the end of the final episode, is we talk about the Chelsea women who, you have to say, the new ownership, their focus is still on the women's team. They're still giving it massive priority and they're spending big sums on signings. So that has been their success story. And of course, Chelsea women currently on course or have the chance of winning the quadruple. Something that would be a magnificent achievement if they do it. Hey, Austin, Apple is open for small business. That's right. We're here to make starting and running your business simpler. With privacy and security built in on all devices, it's easy for you to protect your customers data. And if you need hardware or software support, you'll get advice from business experts at no cost. Whatsoever. So you can focus more on the soup du jour and less on, you know, the other stuff. At Apple, we're open. For your small business, go to apple.com smallbusiness or visit an Apple store to learn more.
- [26:51]
Adam Leventhal
So, Simon, we spoke a little bit earlier on about how much impact Enzo Maresca has on the transfer business that Chelsea do. What's the feeling behind the scenes on actually whether he's going to be there next season and get an opportunity to be working with those players, whoever they are, that come in over the summer?
- [27:13]
Simon Johnson
Is there confidence when it comes to Chelsea? I always. It's like one of those terms and conditions that you hear on adverts sort of thing. Right at the end you always have to sort of do the caveat of never say never because this is the bonkers football club that has a high turnover of head coaches, as you've already referred to. But as things stand, I don't think they're thinking about getting rid of Maresca. That might disappoint some of his detractors in the stands, but I think he's sort of seen as having a positive first season, even though the results over the last few months has been disappointing.
- [27:51]
Adam Leventhal
Tim, how much of an impact do you think on that decision making process that will happen in some way, shape or form over the summer? Not to say that he's going to leave because he's doing it, he's doing a good job and they're fourth at the moment. How much of it will hinge on whether they get into the Champions League?
- [28:07]
Tim Spears
I mean, I guess if you take last season as the bar to start from, you know, they ended so well under Pochettino, finished sixth. You've got to show improvement, I think, as a club, especially with the money that they've spent. And fifth would be an improvement, an equal Champions League. And it's in their hands. I would definitely have concerns for them in terms of finishing fifth. If you look at their form for some time now, you know, you look at the form table for sort of the last 10, 12 games, they're down. They're down in the bottom half of the table. And a couple of recent home wins, you know, over Leicester and Southampton have not sort of papered over those cracks. And then you look at the run in which is one of the toughest, I think, in the league statistically. Certainly one of the toughest. They've got sort of Brentford and Fulham away. They earn the season at Forest away. They've got Liverpool to come. They've got Newcastle away. It's a real tough run in and with injury concerns recently and form concerns people like Cole Palmer, it's hard to make a case for them when you compare to like Newcastle and Brighton, who've really sort of got their act together in the last couple of months and you'd favor them over Chelsea. So it's going to take a bit of a change in an upturn in form to get that Champions League football. I wouldn't call it make or break for Maresca at all, I think. I'd like to think he's been brought in for the long term. He's got a style of football with a very high tariff that if it works we'll be like, wow, this could be pretty incredible. Incredible if it works for the right players, but it needs time. So I don't think he necessarily needs Champions League football. But the. Well, do you know what I was going to say the club do from a financial point of view? But then if they're going to get 80 million from the club World cup, then that sort of balances it out, doesn't it, really? So good for you, Chelsea.
- [29:38]
Adam Leventhal
But is that the case, Simon? Is it pivotal for the finances that they get Champions League football for the longer term, for more of a longer term sort of foundation stone for their finances?
- [29:52]
Simon Johnson
I wouldn't say pivotal for this year, but there's only so long you can rely on selling players, and particularly homegrown players for straight profit. Chelsea also don't have a front of shirt sponsor and one of the reasons why they've kind of delayed it. There's a lot of scrutiny on why front of shirt sponsor hasn't happened, but Chelsea looking for the best deal, best long term deal possible and understandably there's a much bigger pitch from as far as they're concerned. If they're a Champions League club versus being as they are right now, a Conference League club, they can argue for a much higher sum. But yeah, going down the line, it's not even just about finances. It's a. It's a prestige, it's a. Chelsea don't want to be playing in Conference League. This is not their recent modern history. The reason they're in the FIFA Club World cup is because they won it in 2021. Well, that won't get them a ticket in the next staging of the tournament in 2029. And of course, as Tim has already mentioned, that's a tidy bit of money you can earn from being in it. So I just think it's not just about finances. It's where Chelsea are going as a club. And of course if they're competing for the Champions League in terms of those positions, they're also competing high up in the table. And look, their season right now is on a bit of a knife edge. I mean, we're talking about them being in fourth, but they're only four or five points ahead of 10th. And that's why I sort of have to say the never say never thing that if Chelsea finish off mid table and of course don't go on to win the Conference league, which they've been strong favorites for from the get go, there's never to be going to be questions have to be asked of Maresca, even though he's got this five year deal. And perhaps more worryingly for him is as Pochettino and Potter experienced, if the fans turn against him, which they've already started to do, it's a very difficult task to win them back. I mean, Pochettino managed to sort of get end on a bit of a high with those five straight wins at the end of last season, but we shouldn't forget that last February, last March, the Chelsea fans were telling him in no uncertain terms what they thought of him. So it's really that sort of balance. As far as Maresca's popularity with the Chelsea fan base are concerned, this episode is brought to you by State Farm. You might say all kinds of stuff when things go wrong, but these are the words you really need to remember. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. They've got options to fit your unique insurance needs, meaning you can talk to your agent to choose the coverage you need, have coverage options to protect the things you value most, file a claim right on the State Farm mobile app, and even reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is.
- [32:50]
Adam Leventhal
There Pro baller Lonzo Ball for Buzzballs ready to go.
- [32:54]
Tim Spears
Cocktails take 12 buzzballs just dropped their biggest blue balls.
- [32:58]
Adam Leventhal
Script says Biggie's blue balls Lonzo take 13.
- [33:01]
Tim Spears
Blue balls just dropped their biggest buzz balls.
- [33:04]
Simon Johnson
Ugh.
- [33:05]
Adam Leventhal
Let's try a vocal exercise.
- [33:07]
Tim Spears
Buzz Balls Biggies Blue Balls Buzz Balls.
- [33:09]
Simon Johnson
Biggies Blue Balls Big balls just drop. Get BL with Buzzballs.
- [33:17]
Tim Spears
Please read responsibly.
- [33:18]
Adam Leventhal
Buzz Ball's available in spirit, wine and malt, 15% alcohol by volume Buzzballs LLC, Carrollton, Texas and Tim, a question to you. In terms of what's the bigger issue at Chelsea, do you think it's managerial issues and not necessarily having the right fit or the OR long enough for Each manager to actually bed in or it's everything that's going on behind the scenes and the sort of the shifting sands at the moment.
- [33:53]
Tim Spears
I mean, you know, most clubs live or die on recruitment and this is, this is a long term project with players who need time to blossom and improve. And we've seen improvements in the likes of, you know, Caicedo and Fernandez. They just do need a bit of time. The problem is when you spend and that amount of money, there's going to be little patience, I guess, inside or outside the club for it to work. And there's going to be a lot of pressure and there's going to be a lot of focus on them. And if those results don't come quickly, then the temptation is to change it. And that's when you get these sort of revolving cycles of going from one very short era to another. So I think, yeah, the recruitment's where I'd start. I think Enzo Maresca's proved himself to be an intelligent, good manager who's, you know, done well in his short, in his short career so far. And they need to stick with someone. At the end of the day, you know, you don't, you don't get a Klopp or a Guardiola from changing your manager every year. So I think, I think he's done enough not regardless of what happens the rest of the season, because if Simon says if, if they sort of drop to 9th and don't win the Conference League, then yeah, he's going to be under a lot of pressure. But I think he's probably done enough to earn another season at least. And that's where you start to create a bit of stability, which is the one thing that Chelsea have lacked for such a long time.
- [35:09]
Simon Johnson
Now I'll just quickly jump in, Adam, just to make the point that it's very hard to tell the fan base what to do as a football club, but one of the problems that the new owners have to cope with is that in the Abramovich eras, as we all remember, Chelsea bizarrely succeeded with this harem farum sort of record that if things weren't working, bring someone else in and they won a trophy. And it's very difficult for, I think, just speaking for the fan base, but I think it's very, very hard for them to accept failure because they're so used to this sort of bizarre model from the Abramovich era working for them that suddenly if a manager is struggling to get a few results together, the natural instinct is to go, well, he's no good, get someone else in. But what is different is the dressing room. The dressing room isn't the same. You don't have Frank Lampard, John Terry, Petr Cek, Didier Drogba to sort of be the stability of the football club. Those characters no longer exist. So it's very hard as a football club, as a football fan base, to move on and to accept this sort of project mantra and this process. It's all part of a process. And I'm not sure. Well, it's gonna take a long time for them to ever do that. I think that until they see some material success, a trophy, there is always gonna be that sort of, well, this guy isn't working out right, let's go find somebody else. And that's part of the problem, I'd say.
- [36:45]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, it was interesting from my perspective, dipping into the Chelsea fans bubble. I went to the Southampton game, spent some time outside the ground and listened to actually being said by the fans when they're protesting against the ownership. And they were obviously complaining about the. The mixed strategy, but that is a strategy that's spending a hell of a lot of money. They were also calling for Roman Abramovich to, to come back and everything that that entails, which is slightly bizarre from my point of view. And then at the same time also calling for Jose Mourinho. So my assessment is that, yeah, the Chelsea fans mindset is pretty scrambled at the moment and I can understand that after a period of stability, albeit unpredictability at the same time.
- [37:36]
Simon Johnson
Yeah, it's kind of that protest in a nutshell sort of sums up. What I was trying to say is that there's still that sort of understandable nostalgia and love for the Abramovich era. I mean, it was unprecedented in the club's history, the amount of success they achieve. But I'll also argue that, yes, they won the champions league in 2021 and we shouldn't just brush over that. But the downturn had actually started a little bit under his watch, that Chelsea were on their longest run without a league title when he left the club, that the transfer strategy was a bit like now, a bit hit and miss. It's very, very easy to look back with rose tinted spectacles on the Abramovich era. But it was that club that bought romelu Lukaku for 97.5 million pounds, for example, and that was a complete bust. So this. Not that I'm sticking up for the new ownership and before I get pelt as criticism as I always do, but they're not the first bunch of people to make mistakes. The Abramovich era made mistakes as well. And perhaps if they'd spent their money more wisely, Chelsea could have had a more sustained. It sounds bonkers to say this when they've won 19 trophies in as many years as I said, but they could have been more of a Manchester City who have been able to churn out league titles, league titles one after the other, than Chelsea, who still did very well, but perhaps started to tail off towards the end of Abramovich's time. But yeah, the fans, it's very difficult to tell them to move on from the Abramovich era because he gave them the best times of their lives.
- [39:15]
Adam Leventhal
Simon, appreciate your time today. Pleasure and thanks to you, Tim, as always.
- [39:20]
Tim Spears
Cheers, Adam.
- [39:21]
Adam Leventhal
Now, just a couple of things to tell you before we go. I've just got back from Los Angeles, where I was at the Nations League finals, which pitted the United States with three countries that have been in the crosshairs of President Donald Trump of late, namely Canada, Mexico and Panama. So it gave the tournament an unavoidable political backdrop, and we looked at how it impacted the main protagonist, including the fans. And we discussed the issues of all of this. And one of the people that spoke to was Canada's American coach, Jesse Marsh, who has staunchly defended his adopted nation against Trump's claim that he wants to make Canada the 51st state.
- [40:00]
Tim Spears
Shortly after that, I had one person.
- [40:02]
Simon Johnson
Say to me like, that was really brave.
- [40:04]
Tim Spears
And I was like, well, it's free speech. And, and, and then this person said, yeah, but don't you worry about somebody coming after you? And I kind of like, chuckled a little bit. But the 50th person that said that.
- [40:17]
Adam Leventhal
To me made me think, what kind.
- [40:20]
Tim Spears
Of world are we living in? And what, what, what does that mean about the interpretation of what the US Government is right now? If that's the response that, that 50.
- [40:30]
Adam Leventhal
Different people give me within one week.
- [40:32]
Simon Johnson
Right.
- [40:32]
Tim Spears
That is a, that's a, that's a concerning theme among people that are Americans.
- [40:38]
Adam Leventhal
So that's a taste of our next special episode of the Athletic FC podcast, which comes up on Sunday for you. A World cup divided Trump and 2026. Now, finally, we're asking you to fill out a quick survey, if you don't mind, about you and your podcast habits by going to theathletic.com athleticsurvey25 and three lucky entries will win £100 or dollars worth of Amazon vouchers as well. So that's a bit of a bonus for you. Whether you're a longtime listener or a new one, we want your feedback. So this is the address again. Theathletic.com Athletic Survey 25 we'll also pop the link for that in this episode description thanks very much for listening. Have a good weekend. We'll see you on Sunday. You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast.
- [41:36]
Tim Spears
The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroo and Jay Beal.
- [41:39]
Adam Leventhal
The executive directed producer was Ailee Moorhead.
- [41:41]
Tim Spears
To listen to other great athletic podcasts.
- [41:43]
Adam Leventhal
For free, search for the Athletic on.
- [41:45]
Tim Spears
Apple, Spotify and all the usual places.
- [41:47]
Adam Leventhal
The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.
- [41:56]
Simon Johnson
The Athletic FC Podcast Network. This episode is brought to you by Universal Pictures. Today's the day. From Universal Pictures and Blumhouse come a storm of terror. From the director of the Shallows the Woman in the Yard, don't let her in. Where does she come from?
- [42:23]
Adam Leventhal
What does she want?
- [42:25]
Simon Johnson
When will she leave?
- [42:27]
Adam Leventhal
The Woman in the Yard in theaters now.