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- [00:00]
A
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B
Morning Zoe got donuts Jeff Bridges why.
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A
Are you still living above our garage?
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B
Well, I dig the mattress and I.
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C
Want to be in a T mobile commercial like you. T teach me so Dana oh no.
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A
I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
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D
Wow. Impressive. Let me try.
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C
T Mobile is the best place to.
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B
Get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
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C
Nice. Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [01:21]
D
T Mobile is the best place to.
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A
Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on.
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D
Us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for launch?
- [01:30]
A
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- [03:04]
D
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere. Another home defeat and a flat performance against Chelsea, But Tottenham are fifth in the Premier League having finished 17th last season. So are spurs improving under Thomas Frank? In with us for this one we've got Adam Crafton. We've also got a Tottenham Hotspur writer, Jack Pitt Brook as well. Jack, a defeat to Chelsea is never good news for a Spurs manager, but how damaging is the nature of Saturday's loss for Thomas Frank?
- [03:40]
C
Yeah, I think it's the performance that is more damaging than the defeat. Tottenham have a pretty bad record against Chelsea in recent years. It's no surprise that they lost this game. I think the real issue is the fact they didn't really do anything in the game at all. They made no impression on it. They completely insipid. I think they finished with an XG of 0.05 which is one of the lowest recorded in years and I think it really brought home questions that spurs fans have been having about particularly the creativity and the creativity at home which have been pretty poor over the course of this season so far. Obviously the league table position is fine, the away record is very good, but there's some very serious questions to answer concerning the home form and the creativity at home that Frank is going to have to come up with answers to.
- [04:26]
D
Well, one of the talking points of the game was the post match reaction of Jed Spence and also Mickey Van de Ven blanking Frank on their way off the pitch. Well, Thomas Frank played it down. Let's hear what he had to say post match.
- [04:38]
B
I think that's the. How can you say one of the small issues we have Mickey Van de Ven and Jet Spence that doing everything they can and I think they performed very well so far this season. Everyone is frustrated. We do things in air in a different way so I don't think it's a big problem.
- [04:57]
D
Yeah Adam, I've been wondering whether this has been blown completely out of proportion here. Like, literally, social media's awash with this clip. I mean, should we. Can we read into what happened? Or for me, is it the context of the game that actually leads to all this scrutiny? Cause I don't know what happened there and neither do you.
- [05:14]
B
Well, I guess it's the fact that Frank kind of turns around with stairs that I think lends it kind of that curiosity. I was watching NBC in the States yesterday. I think they kind of did this very close zoom in of it, and it looked more as though it was a potentially a Spence issue that Van de Ven may have been like, caught in the crosshairs of, rather than sort of both of them. But ultimately, it could be so many different things. It could have been something like something that Frank had said from the sidelines at some point in the game. It could have been Frank saying, you know, go and clap the fans, and Spence just coming back at him and saying. Saying, I've already done it. It could be so many different things, or it could be emblematic of some sort of wider issue between the players and the coach. But, I mean, we are getting into the realms of like, lip reading and body language experts and all of that sort of stuff, which, you know, is kind of perfect for Twitter in 2025, I guess.
- [06:10]
A
Yeah, you're spot on.
- [06:11]
D
Is this sort of the scrutiny that Thomas Frank will have to start facing now, Jack, managing a team like spurs compared to a team like Brentford, you know, that microscopic view on why on ear they're playing so badly right now at home especially?
- [06:25]
C
Oh, yeah. I mean, this is one of the biggest things that a manager has to. Has to deal with when they go and take a job at a much bigger club in the way that Frank did this summer, is that there's far more attention on stuff like this. Nobody, I think, would have cared if this sort of thing had happened with Brentford. Obviously you're in front of the media all the time as a manager of big club. He's got a Thomas Frank's got another press conference happening, I think, basically right now or in the next few hours before they play Copenhagen in the Champions League on Tuesday night. He will have to. Even if he doesn't think this is a big deal, he will have to answer hundreds of questions about it this week, and it will always be there as something that people will come back to and ask some questions about. I broadly agree with Adam. It's very difficult to know exactly what happened here. And I just don't think that this particular clip or even what it points to is nearly as damaging to Frank as the football that was played. Like the fact is, Tottenham played 90 minutes of appallingly bad football against Chelsea on Saturday and that is what is causing Thomas Frank questions. Much more serious questions than whatever may or may not have been said between Mickey Van de Ven and Jed Spence at the end of that game.
- [07:30]
D
Yeah, I'm interested in both your perspectives on this question because, yeah, the standard of football's not great, but out of 10 games, spurs still sit fifth in the Premier League. One point of Bournemouth in fourth, also two points above Aston Villa, who are 11th. It's quite crowded there for sure, but considering they finished 17th last season, Jack, surely this is some sort of progress.
- [07:50]
C
Yes, it is progress, but last season was obviously very weird because they did win the Europa League as well as finishing 17th. And the strange thing about this season is that their home and away form is completely inverted really relative to what you would expect. If you rank Tottenham's Premier League performances this season from best to worst. Literally all of their best performances have come away from home. You know, they were fantastic when they won at Leeds, they won at Manchester City, they won at West Ham, they won at Everton, really, really well. But at home they've been pretty miserable. And they beat Burnley at home. But apart from that, they were obviously shocking against Chelsea. Shocking when they lost at home to Bournemouth. Really poor in that one all draw at home with Wolves. Pretty poor when they lost at home to Aston Villa. So that is basically the opposite of what you would normally expect. Right? And I think that that is creating lots of problems and questions for Thomas Frank with the Tottenham fan base because for 60,000 Tottenham fans, every time they see them at home, they're not playing convincing, attractive, entertaining football. And that's the problem.
- [08:46]
B
This isn't just a this season issue for Tottenham at home. I mean, this goes back to, I'm just looking now, their home wins last season. It goes back to November 3rd. Last season they only had two Premier League wins between November 3rd. So exactly a year last season and the end of the season, one of those was against Manchester United and the other was against Southampton. So this is clearly an issue that has kind of riddled the club for a very long period of time. Now that Frank needs to work through. But it doesn't seem to be something that is. And I'm talking about Premier League home wins. That is pretty extraordinary as a record for a big six club. And it feels good just because they seem to lose every game last season. It didn't seem to maybe have as much of a national conversation around just specifically the home form. But Jack, what do you think those factors are? Is it the profile of the players? Is it the connection between the fans and the team? Is it the atmosphere in the stadium or what do you see as being the cause of it?
- [09:47]
C
Yeah, it's amazing really. They now have. Over the course of the last year, Tottenham played 20 home Premier League games and taken 16 points from those 20 games. That is the worst record out of all the teams who've been in the Premier League last season and this season, West Ham, over that period of time, you know, everybody knows what an easy place to go the London Stadium is. West ham have taken 20 points from the last 20 home Premier League games. So the Tottenham hotsworth Stadium, the 1.2 billion pound stadium, is an easier place to go for Premier League teams than the London Stadium, which is just remarkable in terms of why. Well, there's quite a few factors at play. I mean, clearly Tottenham had a really bad time in the Premier League in the second half of last season, so that's a big influence. You know, they postecoglou is very clear. They prioritized the Europa League over the Premier League. They haven't really played at all the kind of assertive, confident, front foot football that you need to play. I think to win home games. They kind of shelved Ange Ball at Christmas last year and then Frank obviously plays a very reactive game. So that's a factor too. I also think that I think there are some characteristics which are distinct to the stadium. So it's not an intimidating place to go, like it can on a good night be noisy. But generally I think away teams find it quite comfortable. Like, you know, if you speak to people at away clubs, clubs as in clubs who've been to play at Tottenham as the away team, they'll come away and say it's the biggest and nicest away dressing room in the Premier League. There's not much of, there's no kind of edge to the atmosphere, although frankly that is true at lots of Premier League grounds nowadays. So it's again, it's not a Tottenham distinct issue. I think they face a lot of the similar problems that other Premier League teams face in terms of atmosphere, which I think are obviously connected to things like ticket prices and demographics. So lots of those are like consistent Premier League problems which lots of other teams face. But I think if you put them all together, it's created this situation which is Almost kind of self perpetuating. Right. Because players lose confidence playing at home, fans lose a bit of confidence coming to the ground as well. And when you connect those two things, it's a kind of. It becomes a bit of a cycle. Which means that fans arrive to the ground with less confidence, players arrive to the ground with less confidence. And now like when, you know, going to a Spurs home game, there doesn't really seem to be much confidence at all that they're going to get a result. And this has been borne out this season where, where they've been pretty poor. And I think the really worrying thing about a lot of these home games is even when they take the lead, it's not like they face a low block and can't find their way through. You know, they took the lead really early on against Aston Villa. They took the lead early on against Villarreal and against Villarreal they clung on 1 1, 0. Against Aston Villa they lost 2 1. But in both circumstances there was no kind of atmospheric liftoff after that early goal. Like it's. The atmosphere goes flat pretty quickly and that's a big problem to solve.
- [12:24]
A
Yeah.
- [12:24]
D
One of the things I'm interested in is we keep talking about Thomas, Frank, Adam spurs record against Chelsea in their last 10 meetings, they've only beate. What point do we start asking ourselves what these players are also doing on the field? You know, even from the postecoglou era to this era right now, you've still got similar outfit when it comes to player and personnel on that field.
- [12:44]
B
Yeah, Chelsea have got better players. I mean, that's the other part of this conversation. I mean, Chelsea are a better team despite, you know, the inconsistency that they have. I think Chelsea's ceiling is a lot higher than Tottenham's ceiling at the moment. Jack obviously watches spurs more regularly. Might disagree with that. I think there does also, you know, it's now a couple of years since he left, but, you know, I think Tottenham are still a team in transition. Post Kane, post son, trying to kind of find those new real heroes. And if you also take out the fact, you know, Madison, probably one of the most creative players is missing for much of this season, I think that has an impact. Take into account, I know he wasn't a player, but the Daniel Levy stuff that went on, I think it all contributes to a feeling of a club that is in flux. I think their transfer window in the summer, which obviously Levy was partly responsible for, was pretty poor. Was there a reason that a lot of other clubs weren't in for Kudas. A lot of other clubs in the Premier League had money to spend. They didn't go through. And you know, you look at some of the other high profile signings, like, you know, Solanke, you know, going back a year or so, that's been okay. It's not been amazing. Xavi Siemens just hasn't really got going at all yet. You look back to them missing out on Ezequiel and you wonder whether that could have been a spark that just kind of had that taking a real kind of established Premier League player. I think that would have helped a lot. So I think there is a personnel issue for sure. And then you also bring into the fact some stuff that is not uniquely Tottenham. So, you know, I think one of the reasons why at the moment you have this clutch of clubs all on around 16 to 18, 19 points is you've got more teams in the Premier League this season than ever competing in Europe. And I think the burden of that, the kind of fatigue that comes into that three times a week routine, I think does lend itself to inconsistency. There's barely a team really, apart from Arsenal, that hasn't been podcast worthy in some week this season. Right. Because you know, there's been a terrible Chelsea performance, you know, last week against Sunderland. I'm sure Chelsea fans will mention others. There's been a terrible Liverpool weeks, there's been terrible Villa weeks. Newcastle have been all over the place. So I think some of this is a broader trend and some of this is specific to time.
- [14:58]
D
Well, Saturday's defeat to Chelsea was a third in four home games under Franck. Next, let's go a little deeper into their struggles at home.
- [15:07]
A
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- [19:04]
C
They'Ve made another mistake here. Totem Casado's room must be this time. Ciao Pedro. And is Tottenham Too many mistakes at the back so far.
- [19:12]
D
Well, that was Joel Pedro with the only goal at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium on Saturday. In response, spurs only managed three shots on goal. It's the fourth home game in a row they fail to register an XG above 1. Jack Adams alluded to perhaps the creativity issue, maybe not landing players like Eze, but do they have a problem when it comes to firing up front?
- [19:33]
C
Yeah, they certainly do. Like, they're very, very reliant on set pieces. They are good at set pieces, but I think that the set pieces basically have to carry too much the burden of Tottenham's attacking plans. A big part of that is obviously the individuals available to them. As Adam says, you know, without Maddison, you know, Maddison's injured, Kulasevski's injured. They're the two most creative players. Solanke hasn't started a game this season. I think he started really well last season before struggling with Inj. He's definitely better than richarlison. They've been too dependent on richarlison this season. He's been pretty poor recently. So I think there is a clear ceiling to how good they can be placed by the ability of the players they've got available. The attacking players they've got available to them at the moment are just not very good. There's no way around that. You also can't get past the fact that the type of football that they're trying to play is very it's Almost too efficient, too economical, too minimalistic. They don't take any risks, basically, in open play whatsoever. And they look to me like they're just relying on corners, like they're trying to win set pieces. Unless Kudus can create something one against one, which he often can. But then Kudis, I mean, everybody knows that Kudis is their best player at the moment, and so he gets doubled up on and then there's not much else they can do. So they look quite clunky, they look quite predictable, they look quite stodgy, and I think that that's not good for anyone. But it's particularly challenging for a team, you know, playing this big, expensive, shiny stadium in front of fans who have expectations of seeing a team who play with a certain style.
- [21:03]
D
I wonder what we think about the work Thomas Frank is doing. Adam Jay Harris, in his match piece, basically compared the parallels, or saw parallels, to the way Thomas Frank plays versus the way NuNu Espirito Santo was playing when he was at the helm at Tottenham Hotspur. I mean, yes, it's not dynamic, amazing, or, you know, got that va va voom. We want to see. But, I mean, they're still in a decent place in the league, surely.
- [21:27]
B
Yeah. That's not a comparison, though, that you want to be made if you're a Tottenham manager. Unfortunately, it's strange with Frank, because if you look at Brentford's record at home over the years, it was absolutely brilliant. I mean, it's basically what created the brand that Brentford have now, which is this fantastic connection that the players have with the crowd. The set pieces all play into that atmosphere as well. And they scored an incredible amount of goals at home last season. I mean, that was even after losing Ivan Toney. I mean, they had a fantastic record of scoring goals. And so I think he will be surprised by the struggles that his style has actually had at home so far. I appreciate his kind of. With a. You probably can't play as much on the counter attack as maybe he did. But, you know, Brentford weren't, you know, weren't a team that just sort of lumped it under Thomas Frank. I mean, they played some really good football at times as well. I know, like, they won the Europa League. But I also. I kind of said this when. When Manchester United were in the final as well. I just can't take that competition very seriously anymore in terms of the challenges to. To win that competition as a Premier League club with Premier League budgets, particularly as a kind of established Big Six team, because you don't have the teams falling in from the Champions League anymore after Christmas, and I just don't think it is. I simply don't think it's that big a difference between winning the Conference League and Europa League anymore for Premier League clubs. I'm sure some Tottenham. You know, I'm not taking away from the experience that Tottenham fans would have had on that run and the feeling of elation after winning a trophy, but I just don't give that much credence to it in terms of the development of the team. And as a result, I look at Tottenham far more about what they did in the Premier League last season and what they did in other Cups last season, and they were a basket case of a football team that needed a hell of a lot of work. And I think Frank's probably gone in and almost said, let's get in and start with the basics. And start with the basics of trying to set up a defence properly, try and keep players fit, which was a massive issue last season, particularly with the workload they're going to have. And let's just try and get to a point where, if by Christmas, we're just about in line in terms of where we need to be points wise and try and build from there bit by bit. And, yeah, like that is creating some uninspiring performances, but I also think they've had some really good results away from home, which is a bit of a contradiction. Again, I don't think the performances away from home have been fantastic, apart from maybe the City game, but they're getting results, so I think it's a really tricky one at the moment. I do think it's far too early to be judging Frank, say, 10 Premier League games. And I think he deserves quite a lot of goodwill, given what his inheritance was. Sound like one of those politicians after they've just inherited a bad economy or something like that.
- [24:19]
D
It's got to take time before it gets better.
- [24:22]
B
Exactly, exactly.
- [24:23]
D
But, Jack, should we be looking at this through a different lens? I mean, Europa League one thing, but the league form was actually not great at all. This is still a club or a team in transition, still trying to find itself away from a whole different style of football as well, let's not forget. And then let's get the basics right, then we can actually figure out if we're going to try and play with some sort of style.
- [24:45]
C
What I would say on that is that the issue they had last season more than anything else, I think, was that they could not compete in the Premier League and the Europa League simultaneously. They didn't have the squad. I don't think Postecoglou's football was geared towards competing in two competitions simultaneously. Obviously they ended up playing 15 games in the Europa League and Adam is sort of half right when he says that the teams they played weren't that good. In the knockouts they knocked out Aza, Dalmar, Eintracht Frankfurt, Bodeglimt, and then they played Manchester United in the final. So those are not good teams really. But the sheer volume of matches that you have to get through with a pretty small, thin squad, which has not been supported adequately in the transfer market in the previous years, that put a huge burden on the players. And I think that's why we saw Postecoglou effectively taking eggs out of the Premier League basket and putting them into the Europa League basket last season, which I think in part, in large part explains their 17th place finish in the Premier League. Now what Frank is trying to do this season I think is try compete in both competitions at the same time. Obviously they've got eight Champions League games in the league phase. They can't really rotate. I don't think they've got the options. I also don't think he can deprioritise either the Champions League or the Premier League and therefore he has to find a way of playing which is like repeatable twice a week, every week and robust enough that the players can get through it without suffering lots of injuries. Maybe that's why we're seeing this kind of boring style of play, for want of a better word, where they don't do an awful lot in possession and generally rely on set pieces because he's got to find a way of going from game to game to game to game without suffering any of the big highs and lows that they had last season.
- [26:24]
D
I keep looking at socials and things like that and you know, fans want better football at times and I half wonder if anyone deserves better football. Is anyone playing great football at this time, Adam, in the Premier League, or are they just getting it over the line? We talked about the inconsistency of teams like Chelsea, Newcastle, Tottenham Hotspur. I mean, no one's really hit their groove yet, but they are still where they are in the league, in contention potentially for a decent end to the season season.
- [26:49]
B
I think fans who buy a ticket and watch games at one of the most expensive stadiums in English football do expect to see some shots. If you just go back to the point of football, it's to score goals. So they are failing at the point of football to a certain extent at the moment and setting up in a way that clearly is limiting that. I completely understand that frustration. And I think bad performances at home actually do a lot more to damage morale around a football club than bad performances away, for obvious reasons. So I don't think, you know, spurs fans are being unreasonable in expecting more than what they're currently getting in terms of those performances at home. And then you also have that kind of historic thing with Tottenham, which is like, we expect the teams to play in a certain style with a certain level of ambition. You know, you've had those issues with previous coaches like Mourinho and Conte and Nuno, where these managers who are kind of perceived as probably less so, you know, coaches that are seen as like, win now managers. Jack can probably speak best to this, but, you know, the. The way the executive has changed, where they've basically come in and said, we're, you know, we're ready to win, as though no one had ever thought about that at Tottenham before and clearly have that aspiration now under the Lewis family, where they want to kick on. So I think there is all these things, you know, tying into an enhanced expectation for Tottenham at the moment that's not being delivered. But then equally, the flip side of that is, three or four weeks into the season, Thomas Frank was getting a lot of praise for being pragmatic, for being someone who can play different styles of play, someone that's not tied to an ideology or philosophy in the way that we've seen. That has almost been a requirement of coaches across the Premier League over the past few years. So there's all these different contradictions going on at the same time.
- [28:38]
D
Next up for spurs are home games with Copenhagen and Manchester United. So let's ask how important the next week could be for spurs season.
- [28:52]
A
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D
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A
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- [29:08]
D
Got donuts.
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C
Jeff Bridges.
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A
Why are you still living above our garage?
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B
Well, I dig the mattress and I.
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C
Want to be in a T Mobile commercial. You teach me. Soldana.
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B
Oh, no, I'm not really prepared.
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A
I couldn't possibly.
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C
@ T Mob.
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A
We'll get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
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D
Wow, impressive. Let me try.
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C
T Mobile is the best place to.
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B
Get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.
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C
Nice Jeffrey.
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A
You heard them.
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D
T Mobile is the best place to.
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A
Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.
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D
So what are we having for launch?
- [29:48]
A
Dude, my work here is done. The 24 month bill credits on experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and 35 device connection charge credit sending balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel Finance Agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs 1099.99 A new line minimum 100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Oaklove Speed Test Intelligence Data 1H 2025 Visit t mobile.com if you're a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility and your machinery isn't working right, Granger knows you need to understand what's WR soon as possible. So when a conveyor motor falters, Grainger offers diagnostic tools like calibration kits and multimeters to help you identify and fix the problem. With Grainger you can be confident you have everything you need to keep your facility running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast.
- [30:44]
D
With Ayo Akimole so Copenhagen come to Tottenham Hotspur Stadium on Tuesday before Manchester United on Saturday. Jack having already gone out of the Carabao cup and suffering back to back defeat, how crucial could this week ahead be for Thomas Frank asserting his authority but also picking up points in a stylish way, dare I say it?
- [31:07]
C
Well, I think both. I think the Copenhagen game is a must win. When the Champions League schedule was drawn, it was it was clear like anybody would have targeted this game and then December's home game against Slavia Prague as must wins. I think that if they can win those two, then they'll be in a good position. I think Manchester United on Saturday is a huge game, but I think if they could escape with a draw that's maybe a good draw is maybe not the end of the world. But they can't lose. They absolutely cannot lose to Manchester United on Saturday just because if they do, then all the stuff that we've been talking about this week about their home form, about the work, worst home form in the country, an easier place to go than the London Stadium. All of that will just be multiplied and multiplied throughout the international break. I Manchester United, as Adam said, Manchester United one of the very few number of teams who Tottenham managed to beat at home last season. I actually think United are Probably better now than they were back then. I think if they were to lose on Saturday, it would be like, even. Even though the league position would be fine, I think it would, in a quite fundamental way, reset the vibes to back.
- [32:11]
B
Does that not depend on how they lose?
- [32:13]
C
No, because I don't think people would be okay with, like, a noble defeat at home to Manchester United. I don't think such a thing would be possible. Like, it's actually logically possible either. The thing is about this team, right, is that they don't play a lot of football. They're not gonna. It's not like Ange, where they would. Like, Ange was really good at the kind of noble, brave home defeat. Dying on, you know, like, dying standing up, not dying on your knees. Like, they. I can think the 41 against Chelsea in his first season, the 43 against Chelsea last. Like, sometimes they would really go for it at home and lose. This team doesn't really go for it in the same way. Like, if they. Even if they beat Manchester United at home, it'll be through controlling the game and exploiting set pieces. And if. And if it comes off, fantastic, people say, oh, maybe the method works. But if they try that and it doesn't come off and they lose to Manchester United, then I think people say, well, what are they even trying to do? Like, there's no. Like, why would we try and play this style of play if it's not going to deliver any results? If it's only delivered one home win so far this season, and that was against Burnley.
- [33:11]
D
I'm looking at this squad, Adam, and we talk about the Champions League. We look at the Premier League as big tests for Thomas Frank. You look at the makeup of this squad from the outside looking, and do you think this is a squad that's equipped enough to challenge in multiple competitions? If Xavi Simmons is barely making space for himself in the Premier League, can he transfer that form to Champions League?
- [33:31]
B
For instance, when you say compete, what do you mean? Do you mean to win it?
- [33:34]
D
Yeah, I mean, why are you in it if you don't want to win it? Or at least get, you know, make it past out the group stages, for instance, or the league phase, for instance, in the Champions League.
- [33:42]
B
You know, I don't think there's a squad that can win the Premier League. I don't think it's a squad that can win the Champions League. I think it's a squad that can finish exactly where it is currently in the Premier League, which is fifth, I think by December January, I think many people would expect there to be a top three that kind of forms of Arsenal, City and Liverpool in whatever order, presuming that Liverpool kind of saw themselves out. And then you have that, that kind of clutch of clubs that might. Villa and Manchester United and Spurs and Newcastle. I think they can compete for sure within that batch of clubs, you know, to get back into the Champions League through a league finish, particularly if there's five places I think in the Champions League, I don't expect them to do that much beyond get out of the group stages. Depends who they draw. So, you know, I do think success for spurs this season would be a league finished Champions League, making sure that they kind of bank that money again next season. That you have that consistency of players you're trying to buy, knowing that you are, you can be relied on to get in the Champions League year in, year out. I think that would be progress. So that's kind of as strong as I think there is. I think, you know, when I look at the team there's like quite a lot of kind of square pegs in round holes and I think they're missing goal scoring wingers. You know, if you look at other teams that that's how goals are scored these days. It's not all about kind of number nines and I think the midfield, you know, so we mentioned Madison just lacks creativity. So I think there's, there are personnel issues which can be fixed in the transfer market. But for this season, you know, I think maybe a domestic cup could be a possibility. But then you're adding a whole, a whole load more games.
- [35:26]
D
I wonder how hard the job is that he's doing Jack at Thomas Frank and how he's having to learn literally back to back intense intensity in terms of matches. You know, after the international break, spurs return for the North London Derby and then they've got PSG in the Champions League. I mean, they'll obviously want to head into the break in a confident mood, but those fixtures look deadly.
- [35:47]
B
Yeah.
- [35:47]
C
And it's because the games after the November break are so difficult. That is why I don't think they can afford to lose on Saturday. You know, like Tottenham have got a glorious history of a really bad defeat just before the international break. Even if they've been playing well up to that point, they always lose that game. And then everybody's really, really miserable for two. Spends two weeks stewing on how awful it was and it just kind of gets in everyone's heads a bit. So I do think they have to. Yeah, that's why I think they need a result. And I think that you've also got to remember, like, Frank has not really been in this situation before simply because he's not. He's not coached elite level team that plays in the Champions League, where you've got this demand to rotate in between having two games every single week. And while, you know, I certainly think he can do it, like, he's obviously a very smart guy and learns fast, I also think he's trying to do this with a squad that. That is not really built to do it. Like, I think, as Adam says, there's a big quality issue there. Just ask yourself, if you were another top six, or even a team with aspirations to come in the top eight, how many of the Tottenham team would you want in your own team? Obviously, Romero and Van de Fen are both really, really good, but beyond that, I think it's fairly slim pickings. There's a lot of teams. Some teams might go for Pedro Porro at right back, who's very quick, or some teams might go for Vicario, but probably not the very best team. And then beyond that, I don't think there's an awful lot to get too excited about.
- [37:05]
D
Well, I didn't want to end it on a downer, but, yeah, I mean, he do paint a start pitch.
- [37:09]
B
I think they're all right. I think they're all right.
- [37:11]
D
I don't think they're that bad. I don't think they're that bad.
- [37:14]
C
I think they're fine and I think they will probably be able to come, I don't know, seventh maybe. I think at the start of the season, I thought seventh or eighth would be about par for them. I still think they could easily come seventh or eighth. I just think that the way they play at home is. And I think that performances like the one they. Like the one they had against Chelsea is simply not sustainable. I don't think it's sustainable to play that badly at home.
- [37:42]
B
Is there anything kind of quirky, stunty, that they're tried yet to try and brainwash their players into being more confident at home? They change the pace in the dressing room or the scent in the players lounge or something like that? Yeah, yeah.
- [37:58]
D
Those increment gains, those increment gains.
- [38:01]
A
Right.
- [38:01]
C
They're going to have to get some RAF fighter pilots in.
- [38:04]
D
Hey, there we go. There we go. Before we wrap this up, Adam, we got to get you in because it's been a while since we've done this. It's over to you for the Final whistle. You've got 60 seconds. Can you beat the whistle to tell us what is on your mind from the world of football this week? 3, 2, 1. Off you go.
- [38:23]
A
7.
- [38:23]
D
Sir.
- [38:24]
B
I know it feels quite like quite a long time ago now, but I'm going to talk about the Alexander Isaac transfer saga which just the saga itself, which makes me think it hasn't actually worked for anyone in terms of the impact that it's had on performance. It basically messed up Newcastle's entire summer from a transfer strategy point of view, both in terms of, okay, Baltimore has done okay, but the rest of the money doesn't seem to have benefited them so much. A lot of the players haven't really come through yet. The team's very out of form. He's barely doing anything at Liverpool so far. Liverpool are also struggling to adjust. So it just seems strange to me that this thing that everyone obsessed about all summer, that we spent all summer concerned about just doesn't really seem to work for anyone. And there's still time for that to change, but it just makes you think it's better to do deals quickly when you can.
- [39:18]
D
Town nice. Oh, well, what do you catch? You added an extra word to get to 60 seconds on the dot. Perfect. You see that for timing. There's a real broadcaster right there. All right, let's leave it there. All right, Adam, Jack, I really appreciate your time. I genuinely didn't think Alexander ESAP was going to be catching strays on a Tottenham podcast, but hey, this is the world of football. All right, we'll be back tomorrow.
- [39:41]
A
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beale. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Aiddy Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production. Dude, did you order the new iPhone 17 Pro? Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America.
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Hey, it's Maya and Sim from the.
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A
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