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- [00:00]
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- [01:04]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
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- [02:15]
James McNicholas
The Athletic FC.
- [02:19]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. Another week, another clean sheet for Arsenal. That's three goals conceded in nine games. So does a solid defence win you the league? Here with us for this one we have James McNicholas. We've also got Adrian Clark as well. Adrian Arsenal are top of the Premier League four points ahead of Bournemouth in second. Also an important win for them against Crystal palace with Liverpool, Chelsea and also Manchester City dropping points on the weekend.
- [02:53]
Adrian Clarke
Yeah, it was a big weekend, wasn't it for Arsenal? They'd seen Liverpool drop points, obviously played at the same time as City, so they weren't aware of what was going on there. But it was just a game that they had to win to sort of just keep this momentum going. And it was a hard game. I made Mikel Arteta right afterwards when he said I value this victory more than any other. I think it was Arsenal's best win of the season even though it wasn't the best performance of the season for me. Palace are the best team. Arsenal have played definitely the best team out of possession so hard to find any space against them and I thought they did a really good job for most of that game but Arsenal and a set piece made the difference.
- [03:33]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Yeah, James, if you're watching that as a neutral, some might say rather dry of goals but what were the crowd saying in the stadium? Another win again, but it wasn't that spectacular, surely.
- [03:44]
James McNicholas
No, but I think given what had happened elsewhere, obviously at Brentford with Liverpool getting beat, given the awareness fans in stands have of the scores elsewhere at games as well, you know, they would have known Villa were beating. I think everybody in that stadium sensed what a big three points this were. And you know, in those final stages palace actually exerted a bit of pressure on Arsenal without necessarily creating clear cut goal scoring opportunities. But it's quite rare. You see Arsenal penned in like that at home and they were defending with five across the back and having to sort of really defend stoutly on the edge of their own penalty area. But they did. And what was interesting was seeing the fans really engage with that and really rally around that. I think maybe for the first time in quite a long time there's almost a kind of a, an appetite for it among the Arsenal fans that they recognise that this is part of their identity and when they get that goal in head, there's this big confidence I think in the stadium that they'll be able to see it through. And it was fitting I thought. George Graham visited the Emirates Stadium yesterday. Looking down from up in the director's box. I think he would have been thoroughly pleased with the defending that he saw from both sides. But obviously particularly from Arsenal who get another clean sheet.
- [04:52]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Adrian, you know you mentioned something about Crystal palace probably being the best team Arsenal have played so far. You, you look at the table and you look at Bournemouth in second, you look at Sunderland in fourth. I mean this is quite A strange start to a Premier League season. I know there's still a long way to go, but is it fascinating to look at the teams that are actually currently beneath Arsenal right now in the Premier League?
- [05:11]
Adrian Clarke
It's great for the Premier League, isn't it? First and foremost, after a few seasons where things have been probably too predictable, things have sort of been shaken around this, this time around. I love it. I love seeing Bournemouth and Sunderland up there. I like seeing the promoted teams. So all super competitive. And from an Arsenal perspective, obviously I'm quite enjoying the fact that Liverpool are having a bit of a wobble at the moment and Manchester City are sort of not quite the finished article either, are they? So it's all in place I think for Arsenal to have a great season. But you've got to calm down and I think Opta analyst or the supercomputer has gave Arsenal a 66% chance of winning the title. There's 29 matches left. I mean, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves, but given the fixtures that Arsenal have had and have had some real, real toughies, I didn't expect it. I don't. Mikel Arteta would have expected to have been sat four points clear at the top at this stage. So the players have done ever so well.
- [06:05]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Okay, we have to talk about Arsenal's defense, James. Arsenal have conceded just one shot on target in their last three Premier League games. How hard is it to play against this team?
- [06:16]
James McNicholas
Very hard. I think Arsenal might even take issue with that statistic because I think it was recorded for an Eddie and Ketia header, which actually was sort of a claim really from David Ryer. So Arsenal, to my eye at least, have gone through the entire month of October without conceding a shot on target in the Premier League, which is absurd, really. Absolutely outstanding. I think something worth mentioning as well is the depth they have there now. I mean, people may not realize, but William Saliba went off at halftime against Crystal palace and on came Cristian Mosquera, who is 21 year old center, half impressed for Spain under 21s in the summer. Had been in the Valencia first team for a little bit of time, but not necessarily a great Valencia team. He's been an absolute revelation really and has afforded Arsenal the ability to retain the same style of play when one of Saliba or Gabriel is out. I don't think anyone's saying he is necessarily at their level yet, but he has the same profile, he has the same size, athleticism, calmness on the ball and then you look at the fullback areas. I mean, Miles Louis Kelly has a very good case to be England's first choice left back at the moment. He's not getting into that Premier League team because Riccardo Calafiori is playing there. Ben White, you know, another outstanding defender having to play second fiddle to Juan Timber, who may be the informed fullback in the league right now. So they've got outstanding defenders, an outstanding goalkeeper and also it's an entire team effort. This is not just about the back four. Martin Zubamendi has been a superb addition. The work Declan Rice does, it goes all the way through to the front man, you know, Vittie Okorez not scored a ton of goals. But no one at Arsenal is questioning his work rate, his application, his commitment. I always remember an ex pro, it might have been Garen Neville himself, talking about how defending is a culture in a club. And I'm sure Adrian can testify to that from his playing days. And I feel like that is now part of Arsenal, Arsenal's culture, part of Arsenal's identity. They embrace it, they relish it and they take real pride in it. From the goalkeeper right through to the centre forward.
- [08:12]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
That's a real good point, isn't it, about the culture, Adrian? Because you know, Arsenal are conceding an Average of what, 0.33 goals per game currently. If they maintain this form, they'll break the record set by Jose Mourinho's title winning Chelsea side in 2004, 2005. I mean, what's brought that on this season or over the last three or four seasons? Is it personnel, as James has mentioned? Is it mentality? Is it Gabriell Pinter being absolutely ballistic on the sidelines?
- [08:38]
Adrian Clarke
Probably all of the above, really. I mean, first foremost, they're good players, really good players, depth in, in each position. But I do think it's a culture, I do think it's a mindset. And the team definitely love defending. They, all of them love it. And I think about Arsenal probably since the days of George Graham, really. And you wouldn't say that any Arsenal team in the Wenger era up until now, maybe the Invincibles to a point. But I can't remember a team since George Graham that has had such an appetite for clean sheets, for defending, for being resilient. It's what I grew up on, watching Arsenal. It was part of the DNA of Arsenal back then and I think a lot of supporters are thrilled to see it back, even though it irritates the hell out of everybody else that supports different Premier League Clubs. So no, it is a cultural thing. Jocherez sets the tone with his unbelievable work rate. No center forward makes more, more sprints than Victor Yokores. No centre forward closes down defenders more frequently than he does. And that sets the tone for the, for the others. But you look at Gabriel and Saliba, best partnership for me in European football, world football. And then you look at the two fullbacks. There aren't two better fullbacks in the Premier League this season. So if you were to pick a team of the year after nine games, which is ridiculous, you would have Arsenal's back, four in the goalkeeper. No one else really would come into the equation. So it's great. And Arteta, he's come about because Arteta drives up standards year on year. He doesn't settle. It has to be better. Okay, we were good last year, but it has to be better. And if you're not better, you'll be out of the team and somebody else will come in. He's a hard taskmaster, but it's brought about some really good results.
- [10:20]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
We've talked about defence, but let's also talk about the other side. James. Goal scoring nine goals from set pieces which Arsenal are first in the league for, but just five from open play. That's 17th in the league, right down the bottom there. Arsenal are there in terms of goals from open. Spoken about Victor Jokeres intensity and the ground he covers. But the reality is this is also someone that was brought into ad goals in open play. Does a great defense come at the fact that maybe you lose a bit of creativity on the other side of the field?
- [10:50]
James McNicholas
Yeah, it's interesting that, isn't it? The balance between defense and attack. And I think that's some of the commentary around. Arteta has kind of suggested that his emphasis is more on sort of pragmatism, conservatism than free flowing attacking football. I think there is a kernel of truth in that. Although under him Arsenal have broken goal scoring records in the past, so you got to be a bit careful there. In the case of Jokerz, I think he would have expected to score more frequently than he has. There have been chances. I mean, even against palace there's a corner, albeit another dead ball, where he arrives at the back post and he's inches away from from getting himself a goal there. Got a couple in the mid midweek game against Atletico Madrid which will help Arsenal's open play. Chance creation. Numbers aren't great, but I think there is obviously a relationship between that and their seeming reliance on set pieces. You know, they're playing often against a low block where space for a Jocherez or even an Eze is difficult to come by. And Arsenal win a lot of dead balls, they win a lot of corners, they win a lot of free kicks in dangerous areas. And at the moment they're able to profit from that. Their ability at these set pieces is phenomenal. The delivery from Bukayo, Saka and Declan Rice is second to none. I think we speak about Arsenal being a threat collectively on set pieces, and they are. But I think we have to look individually at Gabriel, who I think is just an extraordinary threat in those situations. I actually think if you took him out the Arsenal side, they would be dangerous, but not to the same degree. I think he causes such problems even when he's not the goalscorer. Look at Eze's goal against Palace. Who's there challenging, forcing the knockdown is Gabriel. When Trossard gets the winner at the back post against Fulham, who's the man at the near post with the flick on it is Gabriel. He is monstrously good in these dead bull situations. And actually the partnership that sort of between him and Rice, the delivery and the arrival. We think about partnerships on the pitch as front twos or fullbacks and midfielders. Michael Arteta might know a bit about that. I remember when he was an Everton player, Leighton Baines and Tim Cahill had a similar thing where he could just find him and, you know, and he knew if I put the ball in the right areas, Tim Cahill will get there. It looks to me like Rice and Gabriel have that at the moment where there's just this natural intuition and understanding. Do Arsenal need more from open play? I think so. I think if Arsenal are to win the League, I would expect their open play numbers to be better than they currently are. But Havertz to come back, Odegaard to come back, Marueke to come back, Jocherez to be a bit more settled. I think there's cause for optimism to believe that that could well happen and develop in time. Arteta will just be delighted that they're winning games.
- [13:23]
Adrian Clarke
In the meantime, Gabriel Jaes is to come back as well, of course, you know.
- [13:26]
James McNicholas
Yeah, I forgot. Yeah.
- [13:27]
Adrian Clarke
There's a lot of attacking players that aren't available at the moment. Completely endorse what James said about Gabriel. He's the best I've ever seen at attacking crosses from corners and free kicks. You can put two players on him, three players. He finds a way to escape and his timing is kind of genius. I described him on commentary as Arsenal's set piece captain yesterday because he really is like, I know that Saka was wearing the armband, but every time there's a free kick or a corner, he has a chin wag of Declan Rice. He tells him this is what we're doing. He's the orchestrator. So yeah, it's a great thing. I think the open play goals will come. Mainly it's down to the fact that at the moment, everyone's too scared to come out and play against Arsenal. Liverpool didn't even do it at Anfield. Liverpool played their most cautious game I think I've ever seen at Anfield. They're really, really cautious. City parked the bus in a way we've never seen them park it before, and pretty much everyone else that Arsenal have played have set up like palace did as well. It's hard to create brilliant chances when you're playing against teams that really are setting their stool out just to stop you. But Arsenal have to find a way. James is right. If Arsenal want to win this league, they not only have to have the best defensive record, I think they have to be top scorers as well. And sooner or later the set piece goals will dry up a little bit. So they have to find a way.
- [14:48]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akimolere.
- [14:55]
Adrian Clarke
Dude, did you order the.
- [14:57]
James McNicholas
New iPhone 17 Pro? Got it from Verizon, the best 5G network in America. I never look so good.
- [15:02]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
You look the same, but with this.
- [15:03]
James McNicholas
Camera everything looks better. Especially me.
- [15:05]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
You haven't changed your hair in 15 years.
- [15:08]
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- [15:25]
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- [16:38]
Adrian Clarke
Here's Victor Yokares.
- [16:39]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Cut it back inside and they can't find the target. We have to talk about the striker, the big man that was brought in to fill Arsenal's void up front. Victor Garez. Five goals in 13 Arsenal games so far, but he's now gone five, five league matches, Adrian, without a goal. Now watching him in the Champions League against Athletico Madrid and I'm thinking he's making the right moves. He got two goals in that match. He looked very hungry. There was a drop of the shoulder at the back end of the game which looked like he lost his man. Seems to be finding some fluidity there. Why is he doing it in the Champions League but not necessarily in the Premier League?
- [17:12]
Adrian Clarke
Yeah, it's a good point. I think that Premier League teams are setting up ultra defensively against Arsenal and that means that if your centre forward is going to be really screened and I actually think it's Jocherez's presence is occupying two defenders a lot of the time and it's helping Saka and it's helping Martinelli and it's helping the players around because no longer can they go right. If you double Mark, Picayo, Saka, we've got Arsenal in the bag. They can't say that now. So I do think that his presence in the team helps. I have been, I wouldn't say underwhelmed, but he's come a little bit short of my expectancy because I saw him last season in the Sporting v Arsenal Champions League game and he ran Gabriel and Saliba ragged at times in that game. He looked at tour de force and he hasn't quite had that sharpness or explosiveness in the Premier League game so far. It's just a little bit of an edge missing but 85, 90% of his game. I love, I love the work rate, I love the pressing, I love the fact that he's a six yard box finisher that will get goals that way this season. I just think he needs to relax a little bit and just take the pressure off himself. He just looks a little bit uptight in Premier League matches at the moment because he's so desperate to score. There was one moment at the end of that game at the weekend against palace, he comes down the left channel, ducks inside and I just think just wrap your boot around it and shoot it into the far corner and he looks for a pass. His confidence isn't quite where it needs to be, but I really like him. I like him as a player and I think Arsenal supporters do as well. And his hold up play, he's getting better and better each game. Looking after possession very, very well. It's just the goals and hopefully they'll come.
- [18:50]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Yeah, it's funny you mention a Champions League game. I mentioned a Champions League game. And the other game I'm thinking he's played quite well this season. Again is a Champions League game against Olympiacos where he's fed right down the middle. He hits the ball, keeper saves it, Martelli gets a little tap in. James, not many of us would have watched the Portuguese League last season. I'm not thinking, but we saw all the clips of the amazing goals. Is it just an adjustment period? Have you seen enough to think this is a guy that's going to work well with his team if they create the chances for him?
- [19:20]
James McNicholas
Well, I mean, that is quite a big if at the moment. He's not getting a ton of chances. It is hard when you are a kind of last shoulder striker playing against teams who are defending so deep. And there were signs earlier on in the season that Arsenal were going to sort of look to transition a bit more quickly and play a bit more directly to play to his strengths. I feel like that's been perhaps a little bit less evident in the last few weeks. Look, I think he's been a really important signing, even if he's not necessarily always been hugely impressive. And the reason I say that is because Arsenal lost Kai Havertz to a pretty significant injury. You know, he's basically been missing since the start of the season. Jocherez has given them a focal point, someone who can run in behind, someone who attracts defenders, someone who is a threat. For much of last season they didn't have that, did not have an alternative to Havertz. They were using Mikel Marino, Leandro Trossard, Gabri. Jesus was obviously sidelined from January. He's actually been essential. I kind of worry for Arsenal where they would be if they hadn't bought him now. Has he been as good as Arsenal fans hoped? I'd say probably not so far. You know, he scored in two of nine Premier League games. I think he himself will be a bit Frustrated by that. I'm curious to see how it develops. I think one factor to consider is he arrived looking like a player who'd missed quite a big chunk of pre season to me anyway, which he had in Portugal. Obviously he was in dispute with the club. He comes over and it felt always a bit like he was slightly playing catch up. And he's had to play an awful lot of minutes because, as I say, he's the only obvious true number nine in the squad. And I do wonder if that the sort of demands of that may be taking their toll on him. I'm sure this is a more physically demanding league, a more physically intense league than what he's accustomed to, and I'm sure that Michael Arteta will be asking more of him tactically, defensively, than he is perhaps used to, and I do wonder if there's a kind of cumulative effect of that. Arsenal play in the Carabao cup this midweek. I think they've got to take the option to rest him. They've got three away games coming up following that in which there'll be a huge demands on him. I think he would benefit, actually from coming out of the side for that cup game and having a bit of rest because he just looks to me, I agree with Adrian, like he's just missing that explosiveness that characterized so much of his time with Sporting.
- [21:36]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
But who would you put in in place when there's no recognized striker? But also, there's also the theory that perhaps he just needs more game time to understand how this team plays, how fluid he can be with it, the movement. They get used to his movement on the field. I mean, it's. It's quite a conundrum because Arsenal actually struggling when it comes to, I guess, that number nine position.
- [21:54]
James McNicholas
James, he's had plenty of game time. I'm not worried about that. I'm really, really, really excited and interested to see Kai Havertz come back into this squad and those two players share that. That burden. I keep thinking about, imagine you start with one with all the physical intensity that they can offer you, and they do an hour, you know, 65, 70 minutes, and then you bring the other guy on. I think for a central defender, either of those players would be an absolute nightmare in that scenario. And I think when they're rotating and when they're sharing games, I think that's when we'll really see the benefit in terms of what I would do in the short term. Look, Arsenal have shown before they beat Real Madrid, with Mikel Marino playing up Front, they've got the Andre Trossard. I'm also really curious, just on a personal level, to see Gabriel Martinelli giving a run there. He's been so dangerous this season running in behind and his finishing has been much better. So I think they can, especially for a Carabao cup game, which, you know, while they want to win, is not top of their agenda. I think they can make do without. But I'm really fascinated to see how Mikel Arteta balances and manages the pair of Havertz and Yokeres when he has both available. He spoke last week about the possibility of them even playing together, so I'm really curious to see how that pans out.
- [23:04]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Yeah, how do you see that one playing out, Adrian? Because there's a thought here that if Havertz started the season fit, that the pressure on Gyokerez might not be as much as we're asking for him. They could interchange or, as James has just mentioned, play together.
- [23:18]
Adrian Clarke
I think the way that Jokerz plays means that he would be much more effective if he didn't have to play 90 minutes each week, because it's all about explosiveness, it's all about high intensity running. I do think that Havertz will start a lot of games when he's fit and available, and then to bring on Jocherez either with him or in place of when defenders are tiring, you've suddenly got this guy that's going to sprint down the side of every time Arsenal have possession of the ball. That's quite exciting. So, unfortunately, I think the moments where they'll play together are when Arsenal are chasing the game, if they're behind or they're level and they're desperate to get the winning goal. That might be when we see the pair of them together, but Jokers will be fine, I think, but it hasn't been quite as brilliant as anticipated, I guess.
- [24:02]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Okay, well, Arsenal have also had, what, 11 different goalscorers this season, and I guess much of that is impressive when the team's at the top of the League. Does that take a bit of the pressure off him, James, do you think?
- [24:12]
James McNicholas
I think so. That's the reality. We'd probably be talking about Yokerez much more if Arsenal weren't winning games, but they are, and he's part of that. Don't get me wrong, like we spoke about his defensive work, everything he's doing for the team, I think that's why they were so delighted when he got those goals against Atleti, because they recognize what he's doing for them. And you know, it's interesting contrast with Man City, isn't it? Where we've spoken about Haaland's importance, maybe their reliance on him, Arsenal sharing goals around the pitch. And I also think that may be kind of an underrated aspect of what Jokerz offers like. I think occupies defenders in a way that may benefit the players around him. I don't think it's entirely coincidence that we're seeing the likes of, you know, Saka, Martinelli, Trossard as a profiting when centre halves are so occupied by Yokerezza's movement.
- [24:59]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
All right, we've got a little game for you now, gents. I'd like you to name Arsenal's last nine goal scorers this season in the Premier League. Adrian, you go first. Easy one.
- [25:11]
Adrian Clarke
Wow. Ezzer.
- [25:13]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Okay, definitely.
- [25:14]
James McNicholas
James Trossard.
- [25:16]
Adrian Clarke
Yes. Adrian Saka. Yeah, I'm under pressure.
- [25:21]
James McNicholas
All right, James. Well, Gabrielle feels like a safe. Beth.
- [25:26]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Yeah. Good shout. Okay, Adrian, come on.
- [25:32]
Adrian Clarke
Who often we mentioned Martinelli.
- [25:34]
James McNicholas
Yes.
- [25:35]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Okay, I'll give you that one.
- [25:36]
James McNicholas
Good, good. They lost nine goals. See, I can't. I can't count well enough. I can't work out that far back.
- [25:41]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
I mean, we've just been talking about one, but you know.
- [25:44]
James McNicholas
Okay, Victor. There we go.
- [25:46]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Well done, James. Oh, smart, smart. What about you, Adrian?
- [25:49]
Adrian Clarke
Oh, man.
- [25:51]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Played up front against Real Madrid.
- [25:53]
Adrian Clarke
Merino.
- [25:54]
James McNicholas
Yes. James Timber. No, he's just not in there. He did get a brace earlier in the season.
- [26:03]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
New midfielder.
- [26:04]
James McNicholas
New midfielder. Ziba Mendy.
- [26:06]
Adrian Clarke
There you go.
- [26:06]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Yes. And. And one more. Adrian. Great work rate. Potential future captain.
- [26:12]
James McNicholas
Sure, sure. Yeah. England.
- [26:14]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Adrian.
- [26:15]
Adrian Clarke
Declan Rice.
- [26:16]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Yes.
- [26:17]
James McNicholas
Yeah.
- [26:19]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Mother jets.
- [26:26]
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- [27:21]
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- [28:24]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akinwaleere.
- [28:28]
James McNicholas
Words I mentioned before about the other teams. Inconsistent, unreliable Charter Big moment this in the game.
- [28:36]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Kevin Charter 2 for Brentford. Liverpool split wide open to see the.
- [28:43]
James McNicholas
Champions lose four games in a row. With the expenditure in the summer I think we're in crisis time for Liverpool right now.
- [28:50]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Rolls it across Talby strike and he might just have won it for Sunderland.
- [28:56]
James McNicholas
They might just be doing it again.
- [28:57]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Here at St Stamford Bridge.
- [28:59]
James McNicholas
Their toughest test of the campaign.
- [29:01]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Short corner might come towards Matic Cash left footed shot.
- [29:03]
James McNicholas
Oh it's home. It's home and dry for the one City nil. That's not this Arsenal team. They're very reliable.
- [29:10]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
You can trust them.
- [29:11]
James McNicholas
They're not necessarily miles better than last.
- [29:14]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Year, but they're repeating their levels of.
- [29:15]
James McNicholas
Consistency and that's all they're going to have to do this year to win the league.
- [29:19]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Well a big weekend for Arsenal with Liverpool, Manchester City and also Chelsea losing. Mikel Arteta side are currently six points ahead of City, seven points ahead of Liverpool and eight points ahead of Chelsea. Now that four consecutive Premier League defeats for Liverpool, we currently can't write them off surely Adrian, because you know we've been here before, especially from an Arsenal perspective. You remember the 23 season miles ahead of Manchester City and guess what the inevitable was Manchester City ended up winning the league. Let's keep an eye on Liverpool. Let's keep an eye on Manchester City as well.
- [29:50]
Adrian Clarke
Oh yeah, then it's not over. It's absolutely not over. Because both those teams, Liverpool, Manchester, City have enough quality to string 10 consecutive wins on the bounce, don't they? They just do both have issues to a point. Obviously Liverpool's is balanced. There's balance of the team. They're still searching for it. They don't really know how to fit everybody in, how to get the best out of Salah with all these new signings around him. So I think it's just been so much change at once that they don't feel like a team. They don't look like a team, they don't look like a cohesive unit at the moment. But that will come, surely. It has to. But there's some tough decisions I think for Arne Slot to make in the coming weeks, he's going to have to leave out some big names and how he manages that, that within the environment is going to be really important. And for City, what happens if Erling Haaland gets injured for any length of time? That would be my question. Very reliant on him. I do think they're better this season without the ball, but I still don't think they're as good without the ball as they used to be. And that I think is going to be a bit of a problem in terms of stringing those consistent win, win, win, win, win after one another. I just see them dropping points because they're still not quite there.
- [31:00]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
James, should Arsenal fans be cautious at this point and look at the table and not get too excited still?
- [31:06]
James McNicholas
Well, they certainly will be cautious, I think, because it's been so long since they won a League title and because as you alluded to, there's a bit of trauma there with, you know, leading from the front and not necessarily getting over the line. However, I would say to them as well, they should be cautiously optimistic because the picture looks very good for them. You know, if you, you were taking a slice out of the Premier League right now and looking at every team and analyzing them, I can understand the sentiment that you would make Arsenal favorites because they're a very, very impressive outfit, a very serious outfit. And I think really what gives me the most confidence really in their capacity to do it this season is the difficulty of the fixtures that Adrian mentioned. You know, they've been to Old Trafford, they've been to Anfield, they've been to St. James's park, they've hosted Man City already and they've still got themselves a lead. And also the players they've been without, I think in previous years, if I told you that in Their opening, you know, nine or 10 games. Arsenal would have periods without Havertz, Odegaard, Bukayo, Saka, Saka's immediate backup in Medaware K Saliba might miss games. You would have been very concerned. And the fact that they've been able to kind of ride that fairly seamlessly to me shows you the depth that they've got got and the, the quality they've got in the squad now which they've never really had to this degree before. This is the deepest Arsenal squad I think in my memory because you know there's more games now than ever before and they've got a squad equipped for that. Even the great title winning teams of the past didn't have 25 players of this caliber. So I think they're in a really strong position. But there's always going to be that caution, that carefulness and I totally understand it because there's an awful long way to go. I think especially once we get into the second half of the season, especially if there is that pressure and that expectation that they go on to do it, that will create something of its own for them to contend with as well. A challenge of its own. So we'll have to wait and see.
- [32:59]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Do you know what's been interesting Adrian, is Liverpool. And I don't know many people that will have predicted where Liverpool are currently. I mean it's still only a handful of games but where they are currently is at the Liverpool we're used to seeing, especially from last season. The Brentford game was really fascinating. A direct style from Brentford. They end up losing that 3:2 at the GTECH. What do you think is behind this slump in form? Because it's easy to say, well they've got new players but other teams have got new players as well. You know, they're not the only ones in, in that situation.
- [33:28]
Adrian Clarke
Yeah, it's, it's a good question. I think. Standards, I used the term earlier with Mikel Arteta constantly pushing the players to, to raise the bar to get to the next level. But Liverpool did that last year. They were magnificent. They climbed the mountain, they picked up the trophy and I, I, when I look at them I don't see a team that's as hungry as before. I don't see a team that's as united as it was before. That's understandable because there's so many big new faces within the group. I think a lot of it stems from the centre backs. I don't think that Van Dijk and Konate have been at the level that they were before. I don't think Kirk has settled in particularly well at left back. At right back, we've seen Frimpong and we've seen Szoboszlai, we've seen Bradley. It just feels to me like Arne Slot is searching for the right balance. And Mo Salah was extraordinary as well last season and this season he's been average and that's always going to take points off of you, isn't it? So there's a number of factors but no one can persuade me that Liverpool season's over. It's not. They're definitely too good for that to be the case. And I think of all the teams that are around, I know the Bournemouth II at the moment, Sunderland are right up there. I think Arteta and Arsenal will be looking at Liverpool's results first every single weekend because I think they remain the biggest threat.
- [34:48]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Yeah, it's so hard. I put something on yesterday just saying imagine if this is how the league ends up come May, you know, with Sunderland in the Champions League and boy.
- [34:56]
Adrian Clarke
It would be hilarious as well.
- [34:57]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
It would be absolutely hilarious. But I mean James, you can't ignore the big players. Chelsea City, Liverpool to a certain degree when you're looking at the table now, who do you think the biggest pushers are for Arsenal?
- [35:09]
James McNicholas
I still think Liverpool and City with the greatest respect to what the likes of Bournemouth and Sunderland are doing because it's an outstanding. And I think one thing that's really interesting is actually how your perception of a fixture list shifts according to team's performance. You know, Arsenal have got games coming up. They've got a trip to Sunderland, for example, a week or so's time. You know, a few weeks ago they might have felt pretty positive about that, but now that looks quite daunting. You know, every union with their former captain Granit Xhaka against an informed Sunderland side who don't concede a lot of goals themselves. Very physical as well. So that becomes interesting. A North London derby which is not too far around the corner I think starts to look a really interesting proposition. I mean spurs did their best Arsenal impersonation as far as far as I could see at Everton yesterday, a couple of goals offset pieces and you know, they look a much more serious outfit this time around. But I think despite all that, you look at the quality of players at City and Liverpool's disposal, you look at the managers, the fact they've been there and done it before, I still think those are the first results Arsenal sports are going to be looking for. Every weekend.
- [36:09]
Adrian Clarke
And if Haaland stays fit, then City have a chance. I mean, the guy's scoring every game. I know he didn't score at Villa, but he even did score, didn't he? Put the ball in the back of the net, albeit, you know, there was an offside. So if he stays fit for 38 games, City are absolutely in the conversation.
- [36:26]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Yeah. What about the other team in red in Manchester, Adrian? Manchester United, bit of a resurgence at the moment.
- [36:31]
Adrian Clarke
Yeah. No, not in the title conversation. No, no, I'm not having that. I mean, you can't go from being the kind of sort of crisis that they were to challenge him for the title. But, yeah, there are signs that they gonna obviously improve. And Amram's got better players. You know, with Acuna and Mburmo, I think they're both settled in pretty well, actually. I'm just not convinced that Bruno Fernandes in central midfield, I know that it's been better the last couple of games. I just don't think without the ball. United are good enough. They don't track runners well enough, but they're going to be tougher to beat this season. They will get more points, they'll be in the race for, but they're not at the same level, I don't think, as Arsenal, Liverpool or City.
- [37:14]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
All right, let's finish on this. You know, of the 33 sides to win the Premier League, only six have won it while conceding the fewest goals and not scoring the most. So does defence actually win you titles? What are you saying, Adrian?
- [37:26]
Adrian Clarke
I think goals are more important than goals conceded. If truth be told, if you finish as top scorers, you're more likely to win the league than if you finish with the best defence. That's what recent history tells you. I'm certain that Arsenal will finish this season with the best defensive record. I don't think anyone can match what they're going to produce, but they're not going to be far away from being top scorers, trust me. These fixtures have been hard, really hard fixtures. They're learning how to play against teams that don't want to be ambitious against them. They're learning about jokers. They've had a lot of attacking players. Arsenal missing. If that tide turns and you get the players returning, the fluency develops. I'm really confident, actually, that Arsenal can also finish as top scorers this year, James.
- [38:10]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
I mean, one nil through the season, it's not going to be great for the fans, but if the defense is solid and they're getting three points. Can you blame them?
- [38:17]
James McNicholas
Listen, one nil to the Arsenal is a pretty popular chant at the Emirates Stadium. I don't think there'd be too many complaints. Yeah, listen, if you can keep 38 clean sheets, but if you don't score a goal you might go down. That's the reality in pure points terms. So of course goals are hugely important and actually I think if we go back and we look at Arsenal over the last few years, them being good at set pieces is nothing new necessarily, but you do tend to see peaks and troughs in terms terms of a bit of variance in terms of how they work and maybe teams get wise to what you're doing and you're forced to readapt and change again. So I'm not sure they'll continue to score quite this rate on the Dead Bulls. I think as I said earlier, it's got to be evened out by the open play. I think there are different ways you can do that. They've obviously got Odegaard's creativity to come back. I think when they get Havertz and Odegaard back they might start winning the ball a bit higher up the pitch as well. They add a lot in the press, those two that could create turnovers and goal scoring chances. Listen, if we're sat here in a few months time and Arsenal have won the league, it will be because they've scored a ton of goals as well as having a very secure defense.
- [39:19]
Podcast Host (Ayo Akimolere)
Okay gents, let's leave it there. Adrian James, really appreciate your time and also thank you guys for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.
- [39:29]
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Avey Moore. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company.
- [39:53]
Production.
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James McNicholas
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