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- [00:00]
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- [01:42]
Ayo Akimalare
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me IO Akim Mulere. After more than 20 years of waiting, Atletico Madrid have won at camp now, and it was the Barca target, Julian Alvarez, who led the way. So does this performance underline their determination to sign the Argentine? Joining us for this one, we've got our Barcelona correspondent Paul Balus. We've also got La Liga correspondent Dermot Corrigan as well. So Barcelona 19 points clear of Atletico Madrid in La Liga, but beaten 20 at the Camp now on Wednesday Night. It was an exciting game to watch, if I'm honest, Paul, from a neutral point of view. But how damaging was that defeat for Barcelona?
- [02:29]
Paul Balus
I think it is very damaging. Realistically, Barca are really in a bad position now to go through the competition, which was the ultimate goal that this squad has. Of course, we mentioned that they are in a good position in La Liga. They are seven points ahead of Real Madrid with eight games left. They should be winning La Liga, which is a huge success. But the ultimate goal that this squad has is the Champions League. And losing last night at home in a game where they were supposed to take an advantage to the Metropolitano next week, it's been a huge blow. At the same time, there's a lot of hope and joy to this Barca squad, to this generation of players. There's just lame chances in the fan base that this group of kids basically can dream with turning it around. But being realistic, it was a huge blow, and it's going to be hard for Barcelona to achieve their dream of keeping the Champions League hopes alive. Yeah.
- [03:19]
Ayo Akimalare
Should they have had a penalty? I was just thinking about what looked like a handball, the pass from the keeper Atleti to Marc Poubil. And I was just thinking, what is going on there? Because I remember a previous one with Tyrone Mings for Aston Villa, and they got a penalty out of it. I think it was Bruges. They played. So, I mean, what. What's the feedback there?
- [03:38]
Paul Balus
I think if you asked anyone in the Barca dressing room, they strongly believe that they should have had a penalty. That you're playing a Champions League game, you have to be serious in terms of how you play. And if you kick the ball, if the goalkeeper kicks the ball to try to set up the play and everything. So the game has started and another player can grab the ball with his hands, which is what happened with Marpovid. In the end. I think it was a game of fine margins. And in a way, if the referee is serious enough or harsh to give the red card to Paco Garcia, which he can see the red card for that. Of course, there's the angle of Barca people saying, okay, you could have looked in the same way to other actions from Atletico de Madrid, which the highlight was this potential penalty that he then gave. It was fine margins. And Barca feel that Atletico got their fine margins to their side with the refereeing decisions and they didn't.
- [04:28]
Ayo Akimalare
Well, the thing is, Lamina Mao was the star of the meeting on the weekend, and he actually almost created an opportunity to Open up the scoring before Kubasi was sent off. Then up steps up Julen Alvarez with that free kick. A massive blow, wasn't it, for Barcelona?
- [04:46]
Dermot Corrigan
Yeah, it was. You could see how frustrated Lamine was getting even after that great pass that he had at the weekend against Atletico. He ended that game frustrated as well because he was setting up chances for teammates. He was trying things. He was taking a lot of pressure onto himself because he knows maybe he needs to. Even though he's still 18, he's the, the main attacker in the team. He was the main chance they had to win the game last night as well. And he had some great moments. He had that dribble into the box. He got past four players, maybe with the fifth, Atletico defender came across to stop him. And then at the other end, Atletico just had a couple of chances. They were super efficient last night. I thought they played really, really well. I thought they were by far the better team. Really set up. They knew what they wanted to do in the game, how they were going to play. And it wasn't a typical game where they, you know, Atletico maybe going back a decade where they sit on the edge of their box and they hoof everything away and Diego Costa chases down the long balls. They had some moves, especially in the second half when Barca were down to 10 men, where they had about like 50 passes. They were making Barca run around and chase them. And then true Alvarez's scope, very clever to provoke the red card and then bring in free kick and then the goal as well. When they just picked Barca off, they waited for the moment. Griezmann freed the left back down the wing, put the cross in, Sorlot scored it and it was, it was kind of Barcelona. We're huffing and puffing a lot, I thought. But Atletico had them under control and it was, yeah, super frustrating for Lamina. And then Alvarez hasn't had a great season by his own, by numbers. He looks kind of tired. He's played so much over the last three or four years, but in the big games he's been fantastic. He was brilliant against Barca in the Copa del Rey, brilliant against spurs in the Champions League in the last round and again last night when they, they really needed him. Rashford was missing chances at one end, Lemin was getting frustrated, but Alvarez has won like a 25 yard free kick. You can't really say it's a chance, but when the, the opportunity came, he really punished Barca.
- [06:34]
Ayo Akimalare
Yeah, I guess it was a real game of chances, really. And taking Those chances, Paul, and you've written about Barca's issues up front and you know, I remembered that first half yesterday and I was thinking, where's Robert Lewandowski? I mean this is the most experienced player on the field and a guy who's built for these big occasions, yet didn't really see much of him.
- [06:54]
Paul Balus
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, Lewandowski has been a bit off the pace for a few months. For a few weeks or months. In a way you cannot blame him. He turned 37 last year. So he's entering to that stage of his career where it's potential, it's possibly normal to be as good as he used to be. But yeah, he's been struggling a bit with keeping up the pace with the game, with the physicality and then with high pressing. He's never been the most trusted lieutenant in Flick system and if you add that into a mix, he doesn't score goals. There's not a lot to bring as an addition. So yeah, when we think about Barcelona, there's a lot like of course they have a fantastic front three with Lamina Mal, Lewandowski and Raphinha. But Raphinha was not there last night. He's arguably the most influential player in Flick's system in the way that Flick wants to play. So he was not there and he will not be there in the return leg because he is still injured. He pulled his hamstring playing for Brazil. Then Robert Lewandowski, as we mentioned, he's not going through his best form of the season. And that basically leaves Barca with Lamina Mal as the. Yeah, basically main guy to rely on attack and production which is not a bad thing to have because Lamina Mal is going through the best form of the season. But that might be a lot for a 19 year old at this stage of the season playing quarterfinals of the Champions League against the best teams in the world. So I think that's basically one thing that Barca has to realize that was a problem for them last night, that they didn't take their chances because if you look at the expected goals, Atletico had like 0.33, something like this and they scored two goals and Barca had over one expected goals. I think it was 1.33 at these stages of the Champions League. With that you need to take something out. If you don't, there's a big chance that other teams capitalize on you and that fine margins. As I was mentioning earlier on, it's what took a toll on on Barcelona last night.
- [08:44]
Ayo Akimalare
Yeah, you Think about the kind of pressure that's on the shoulders of Lamina Mal Dermot. But also, I wonder if there was, and dare I say it, look, I'm. I'm not a coach. A bit of naivety from Hansi Flick. You go, you know, into 10 men for the rest of the match, you're still doing that high press against a tactically astute Atletico Madrid. Cirloc comes on and they just pull that chess piece and. And kill the game.
- [09:06]
Dermot Corrigan
Yeah. Like from Flick's point of view, he's just always going to play the same way. You have to respect him in how he has a very clear idea about how he wants to play. And a lot of coaches have a clear idea, but they're not able to get their players to carry out that idea. But Flick gets buy in from everybody. They always play and it's worked out pretty well for them. But it is risky. We saw last year against Inter Milan in the Champions League. They were picked apart in the semi final and Atletico were able to do it as well. Whether it suits the players that he has is another kind of question. I guess like Lewandowski at 37 isn't a guy who's going to be able to run around very much up front. So when Raphinha is not there, maybe it would make sense to change. But I don't think Flick is going
- [09:45]
Paul Balus
to change, to be honest. If you look at the second half, I am not sure. I mean, I do think that Flick made like the right call, like just going to the second half because he souped off Lewandowski, who was possibly not going to keep up with the rhythm of the game with fleek. 10 men and they had chances to get an equalizer in the first.
- [10:04]
Ayo Akimalare
They did, actually. They did. At some point. You didn't think Barcelona had 10 men. It looked really, really just kept flooding them.
- [10:09]
Paul Balus
Yeah. In the first 15 minutes of the second half, like if you score one goal in there, I mean, that's a huge bonus. And then you don't have the assurances that playing in a more pragmatic way in the second half at the Camp Nou, losing one nil, they don't score a second one because they could have, well, scored that. So I think that Flick was sort of clever and that the plan in the second half was risky, but it was worth it. But they, again, they were not lucky. They did not take their chances. They had a couple of corner kicks that they could have got something better. And that's what penalized them basically more than Flick's.
- [10:41]
Dermot Corrigan
Tactics, the way the game went kind of showed up the problems that are in Barca's squad, the way that they've spent the money over the years, the type of players that they've gone for, like, they don't have very many great defenders at the minute, like Jared Martinez playing a center back because, you know, they had to let Inigo Martinez go last summer and they haven't signed an experienced centre back to play that role. Lewandowski is still up front because he was Laporta's big bet, spent a lot of money on him, wanted to get signed a superstar attacker to come in, and they don't have the backup and they haven't had the money in recent years to go and spend big to fill those gaps in the squad. So it's not a huge surprise, I guess. Atletico have been able to spend quite a bit of money themselves as well. Like Julian Alvarez is at Atletico. If Barca were able to afford him, they probably would have signed him by now. So it kind of shows how, you know how Barca has been run off the pitch maybe over the last decade or going back further, and Laporta's lever's policy and all that has left them with the type of squad that they have. And Flick has to kind of make do and come up with the best system that he can for the players that he has.
- [11:40]
Ayo Akimalare
The Alvarez one is interesting, Paul, because you've written about it and especially Barca's interest in Alvarez. You can understand from seeing that free kick last night how brilliant he'd work at Barcelona. And I'm sure they're not the only team after him. Can they afford him? Is it a matter of if Lewandowski moves on. There's a huge wedge there that they're able to invest in a player like that because he's not going to come cheap.
- [12:01]
Paul Balus
I'm sure that what happened last night didn't make Laporte happy, not just, of course, because of the result, but I think that they were happy with Julian Alvarez not having his best season. As in to put the doubt into Atletico's mind, as in, well, should we cash in with. We get a good offer for the player. But when the big games came in as like Dermot was saying, against Tottenham, he was great. I think over the last month he's been better. And against Barcelona last night, yeah, he just turned up and showed that quality. I think that for Barcelona, the problem is not going to be that much the money to spend on. On a transfer fee, that will be huge. For a place to just Julian over it is having enough room in the salary limit to basically fit him in. There's a lot of decisions to be made in there because Lewandowski his contract is getting to his end on summer. And let's see what Barcelona do with him because there's people at the club who are considering offering him one year extension with the lowest salary. What really to like stay as a backup. They are doubt over Ferran Torres if they maybe they are potentially considering a sale and then yeah, possibly the dream scenario would be to sell Ferran Torres for a decent fee, keep Lewandowski on a lower wage for one extra year as a backup and sign like a starting number nine. Dream scenario is of course Julian Alvarez. Let's see if they can pull it off. But there's a lot of things that still need to happen and we still need to know in terms of in which financial position Barca will be in summer. The last thing that we know as a fact is that in February La Liga dropped the new updates, as in the salary limit and Barca had a boost of 80 million, as in with the previous figures. So basically their salary limit was boosted, meaning that the finances, well, in a way they are progressing in a way that La Liga approved and to get a bit of a boost. But now, yeah, it's going to be a matter of let's get to the summer, let's see which money do you have if you sell some player, which is something that they are willing to do as well, and which salary can you afford to take in. And yeah, they are going to assess the situation in summer, but surely Julian Alvare will stay on the top of the list.
- [14:09]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
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- [15:25]
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- [16:06]
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- [16:46]
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- [16:50]
Dermot Corrigan
Atletico double their lead.
- [16:53]
Ayo Akimalare
Alexander Serlot helping to secure a historic win for Atletic on Wednesday night. Dermot, we need to talk about this, I guess new rendition of Atleti Ondasimione, who's been there for many, many years. A lot of his usual lieutenants aren't there anymore. The likes of Coque are still there and we saw how useful he was last night. But can you just tell us about how Simeone is working with this new incarnation of Atleti?
- [17:18]
Dermot Corrigan
Yeah, there's a lot of instead of the kind of grizzled warriors that they used to have before guys like Diego Gaudin and Gabi in midfield, Raul Garcia. Diego Costa was a very physical team, very aggressive team. It's a much more technical team now, built around Griezmann, you know, even at 34, was pulling the strings last night. Lincoln Witt, Alvarez. When Koke had to come off, it was Raoul. It was Alex Baena who came into midfield. A small, little jinky kind of a playmaker, partly because of injuries, but also partly because the club's policy. I'm not sure it's always been Simeone's policy, but the club's policy has been to sign a lot of more attacking players, more technical players, more attractive players, maybe to try and build a different type of an Atletico team, kind of a European super club type of team. And there's been a bit of friction between Simeone and the club hierarchy at times over that, but it's worked out pretty well for them so far. For Simeone, it's been a challenge. He's kind of had to learn a little bit how to play a different way, to play a lot more joined up football, more possession football. They've more of the ball in in La Liga, the more the ball in the Champions League. And defensively they've not been great. Last night was their first clean sheet in the tournament this season. They conceded two goals, an average of two goals across their games coming into last night. But if they do go on and knock Barca out and then they're up against Arsenal, it'll be a different type of a game for whoever faces Atletico in the Champions League going forward.
- [18:34]
Ayo Akimalare
Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm just thinking about the next leg of this poll. Obviously, Barca miles ahead of Atleti in La Liga. Is there much confidence for the next leg? Because no, Rafinha, but they've already beaten them already last week. So there's got to be a thought in their heads that, you know, what if we play the Barcelona way and we don't get another man sent off this? We're still in this.
- [18:57]
Paul Balus
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. I think that Atletico have all the reasons to be confident on that. Plus, as Dermot was saying, the performance in La Liga has been so bad that they are just way off the title race. So they are not going to care too much about La Liga. They are going to arrest everyone on the weekend and focus on the Champions League, because that's the main goal they have right now. And then at the same time, I think that Barcelona will rely on the fact that they have such A young and inexperienced team, that they are a group of players that they don't care too much about the consequences. They just do things. I think that in the past few weeks, Flick, after the players sort of complained about it, Flick has tried to be a bit more pragmatic in the way that Barca played, being a bit more careful with the high pressing, still high pressing, but not at every single moment and at every single minute. So he's taken back a bit of the wildness of his Barca side. I think that they have to get it back for the second leg. They just have to return to what they were last season, this crazy, relentless football team with the good things and the bad things. The bad things can cost you a lot. But there's no other way to affront the second leg, given the result that we saw at the Camp Nou. As I said, there's still a glimpse of belief in that team. But Atletico is not going to make an easy challenge. And going to the Metropolitano with the atmosphere that is in there, one of the best in Spain in. In days like this, it's going to be really, really hard for Barca.
- [20:17]
Ayo Akimalare
Yeah, you're. You're asking Barca to do what they did last season, Paul. But a lot of those key components are missing, Rafinha, particularly one of those key components, you've got Ferran Torres, who is not firing that great at this moment in time, do you know what I mean? And they've still got injuries as well, to add to that poll.
- [20:32]
Paul Balus
Yeah, yeah. But then if you look to last season as well, you played against Inter without the fullbacks, without your starting fullbacks. Jules Kounde and Alejandro Valde were out. You had to make up E. Garcia as a right back, who was great, and Gerard Martinez as a left back, who was great. So Barca had this sort of problem as well, possibly with not such a structural players as Rafinha, as you were mentioning here. But yeah, there's a thing of like, you just have to trust in this field as generation of players and just that's something that I think Flick's team has earned, to have that trust and to have that faith in them, because they are. Yeah, they just don't care too much about the consequences. And I think that they've proved that they know how to install fear in Atletico's minds. And I go back to the Copa del Rey semi final tie, which Barcelona lost 4, 0 in the first leg. Really bad game for Barcelona at the Metropolitano. They go back to the Camp Nou And Barca basically outplay atletico. They won 3 nil with Atletico with their bags on the wall in a really tough game for them. And yeah, Barca will hope for the same. A lot of parallels were drawn from that Copa del Rey tie from the dressing room last night. As in, it's not a 4 nil game. We can still dream. So I guess that this is what Barcelona will be looking for.
- [21:46]
Dermot Corrigan
The metal side is going to be super, super big next week because it's huge for Atletico and they don't really perform that well when they're favorites in games, especially against Barca or Real Madrid. Last year in the Champions League, they were much better than Real Madrid in their last 16 game. But they didn't go and kill Madrid. They let Madrid off the hook and it went penalties. And then, you know, Julian Harvest fell over and it was a typical Atletico thing that everything was in their favor. It looked like they were about to do it and they found a way to screw it up and they ended up, you know, out of the Champions League feeling sorry for themselves and that. So it's up to Simeone to not to sit back. I don't think they can, you know, next week try and defend for the whole game and go nil. They're going to have to try to make problems for Barcelona not to go into their shells like they did, as Paul said in the Copa del Rey second leg, where they were 4 nil up and they didn't know what to do, so they ended up like, sitting back, which the current squad, as we've been saying, is not built for that, but still at the Metropolitano with the fans behind them and against this Barca team at article, really, if they can't knock Barca out at this time, and if they can't go on and do something special in the Champions League in this situation, then maybe they never can under Simeon Paul, as you know, we
- [22:50]
Ayo Akimalare
love to talk finances, Barcelona, club politics, and it's one of your favorite subjects. And we have to talk about Juan Laporte, who has recently been re elected for another term as president. Much has been made of the levies and everything he's been pulling to keep this, this club ticking over. How much does he need Barcelona to succeed in the Champions League? Because money is a massive factor and the money you can make from the Champions League is decent.
- [23:17]
Paul Balus
Yeah, I think, I think if I'm not wrong, they budgeted for the team to reach a quarterfinal. So in a way they've reached that sort of limit that they put to their to their budget. But on the pitch, success, it's been instrumental. It's been basically what Joao Laporta has based on his time at the club. Just make sure that the team is sticking on the pitch, and then he believes that everything else will start functioning. It was no surprise to see him winning the elections this year. He was the biggest favorite to win the elections because Joan Laporta is a really popular person here in Barcelona. You can question a lot of the financial caveats of his tenure at the club and what he's done to get some signings done over the line, but in sporting terms, if you look at the team he inherited and the team that Barca has now, there's a huge progress in there. And like, Barca fans really appreciate that. At the end of the day, the people who vote look at that like, how is the team doing on the pitch? Are we doing well? Do we have a good team? If we have a good team, we are going to support you and Barca have a really good team now with a young generation and a bright future ahead of them. So Joan Laporta has assembled that, and the Barca fans see Laporta as the man who does these sort of things. Then, of course, the financial cabinets are going to play a big part on what comes from that, because we've talked a lot about Lamin Jamal and the lack of help that he had up front in the last game. And I think that the biggest challenge that Barca will have in the next coming windows is to make sure that they support this young core of players with the right additions to make this Barca team like a real solid and bulletproof contender for Champions League success. So, yeah, finances are going to be key on that. And I think that every progress in the Champions League and every game that they could win in that regard would be money that the globe would really appreciate, and that would make a difference in summer.
- [25:03]
Ayo Akimalare
Yeah. Was there a feeling, Dermot, from your perspective, that Joan Laporta would never be president again?
- [25:08]
Dermot Corrigan
We've written so much about Laporta's presidency and the lever policy and all the decisions that he makes and the different connections with different people within the game that he has and everything. But as Paul said, he's a very charismatic guy and he's very popular with Barclay fans. He's been lucky in different ways. Madrid are not going through a great period at the minute, and they're Barca's biggest rival, so it's made a little bit easier. Maybe for Barcelona, it's not a Vintage Madrid side at the minute, and he's been very skillful. He's made a lot of really good decisions as well. Appointing Hansi Flick was a. Was a masterstroke, you know, was a lot of people questioning whether he was the right coach to take Barca over to sack Xavi and put in Hansi Flick, who didn't know Barca very well was coming in, didn't speak the language, all those things, but he's been great for them. They've had La Masia as well, which is bringing through so many great players, including Lamin, which has been good. You know, different people you talk to, like financial experts and people in the industry, they say that they've just kept kicking the can down the road financially, that they're always, you know, they pull another lever to try and push the problems into the future and at some stage it'll catch up with them. It hasn't yet. And if they get back to the new stadium, if finally it's up to the 100,000 capacity, if they've got all these VIP seats that they talk so much about that are bringing in hundreds of millions more in revenue for the club, then it could work out really well for them. He's been lucky, Laporte. He's ridden by the skin of his pants. In some different situations, he's got away with it. And there was no real challenger in the Barcelona elections. Victor Font is a very clever guy. He's. He has some decent ideas, I think, for Barcelona. You know, we've spoken to him on the Athletic before, and a lot of what he says tends to make sense, but he can't match Laporta for charisma, for confidence, for the excitement that he generates amongst the Barca fans, even for the human connection with the players, with the fans, with the media, with everybody around the club. Laporta is, you know, he's a born. He looks like he's been born to be Barcelona president. He plays the role really well, and yet, five more years of Joan Lepore, it's going to be very interesting to see how it all works out. But he's. He's managed to. To stay in the job and to stay in control of things really well so far.
- [27:20]
Ayo Akimalare
Yeah. I wonder how important it is to have that contrasting presidency versus Florentino Perez, for instance, over at Real Madrid, Super Stern, always in charge, whereas Laporte and Barcelona feels like the people's club in that respect. You know, it's. It's a different PR twist, but actually, that should not be forgotten. As to what he embodies.
- [27:42]
Paul Balus
No, absolutely. That's basically what Laporto wants to do and how he wants to present himself to the fans and what brought him to be one of the longest servants, like, in the Barcelona presidency. I think that in a way, having more of an executive president doesn't guarantee you that the Lope is going to be more successful. Because we can look at Real Madrid, possibly the investments they made may look more sensible to the looks of like, outside people, but then you look at the squad and they are not functioning in the best way together. There seems to be like some key players that are repeated pieces in that team and there's a lot of questioning. I think that there's a strong point in Laporta on keeping this relationship with the players, knowing the dressing room, having the nose and the sense to understand what's needed in the team, rather than, as I said, being like an executive and trying to make signings that make sense. You have to. At the end of the day, football is not a business where things work regularly as in a business school or as in other industries. And yeah, I think that Laporta and Deco and everyone at the Barca board has had the ability to adapt to that with a lot of financial caveats and the Barcelona shenanigans that like, we all know. But yeah, I think that this confronted how Real Madrid has gone over the last few years and the fact that they've signed, they have Benitius Jr, Bellingham, Mbappe and they are on course of their second season with Mbappe in the team and they are not likely to win the league title. So, yeah, it just vindicates a bit what Laporta has done and it just made him a favor to win the elections, as Dermot hinted.
- [29:15]
Ayo Akimalare
But I mean, let's be fair. I mean, surely Barcelona wouldn't mind players like Bellingham or Vinicius Junior on the team. You know, if you could say, I love Marcus Rashford, Vinicius Jr. Swap for Marcus Rashford, you know what I'm trying to say, like, and they can afford it, they've got the money in the bank to go for it.
- [29:32]
Paul Balus
Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, they wouldn't mind top players, but when you sign top players, you have to make sure that they are going to be the right fit for the squad, for the way you play, but also for the harmony inside of the dressing room. And I think that's something that is taking a toll at Real Madrid and that Barca is sort of understanding and knowing where every player sits and what's made Joan Laporta's tenure in sporting terms, I think that a good management whatever he's done.
- [30:03]
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- [30:34]
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- [31:30]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast
- [31:32]
Ayo Akimalare
with Ayo Akumalare, but Barcelona's defeat to Atleti comes the night after Real Madrid lost at home to Bayern. If you want more reaction to that, check out yesterday's episode Dermot how damaging is it for La Liga that both the star teams in the league face an uphill battle to make it to the semi finals?
- [31:52]
Dermot Corrigan
It's unfortunate for La Liga for sure. It would be nice for La Liga, maybe for Atletico do knock Barcelona out and if they can go all the way, maybe to win a first Champions League ever will be a super story for La Liga. But Generally, it's been a quite disappointing kind of season. The level is not as as high as it has been in other years. There's a feeling that both Barca Madrid are going through, in a way, transitional periods. Both have been building new stadiums, they've invested a lot of money off the pitch, they've had different type of financial issues. Other clubs like Sevilla and Valencia, who, you know, have done well in Europe in the past and might have conceivably thought of themselves as Champions League type clubs, are going through all kinds of issues at the minute. Sevilla could even possibly be relegated this season. So it's not a great time for La Liga at the minute. But, yeah, maybe if Atletico go and do something, then it'll be a different type of good news story for La Liga.
- [32:39]
Ayo Akimalare
Yeah, this is interesting. What? Imagine if it's neither Real Madrid or Barcelona to the semifinal pole and Atletti finally make that surge. I mean, they deserve it because the best team goes forward, but I mean, the big boys we typically expect in that situation are looking the least likely to get to that position right now.
- [33:00]
Paul Balus
Yeah, yeah. I think that from the rounded side of things, it should not be too surprising, like they're playing against potentially the best team in Europe. So any team in the world would not be favourite facing Bayern Munich and against Barcelona. I think that they were unfortunate on the first Eleca. And yeah, I agree with the fact that it's not a great look for La Liga. I think it's more influential for Real Madrid, if I'm honest. If they don't go through because La Liga looks really far off from them, like the Copa del Rey, they were really poor and then they lost against Albacete in the competition. And with all the troubles this season, it's going to be a long last couple of months if they don't go through against Bayern Munich. Speaking about summer, what are going to be the club's decision? Who is going to be the manager next season for Barcelona? As I said, it's not going to be great because the ultimate goal of this squad is to win the Champions League and to have success in a competition where the fan base of the club has been traumatized over the past few years. Boy, in the end of the day, securing a second league title in a row, three out of the last four league titles. So it's not going to be a bad season. It's not going to be great, but it's not going to be a bad season. So, yeah, that's why I think that possibly Real Madrid has More at a stake in this.
- [34:06]
Ayo Akimalare
Dermot, this one's for you. I'm just thinking about the turbulence that Barca are facing right now and how Real Madrid haven't really been able to capitalize on it. Paul talked about Barcelona's dominance in La Liga in the last four years. So three in the last four, Yet Real Madrid are having like a weird season where they're not looking at like winning La Liga. We talked about the Copo del Rey. They've changed managers. I mean, what is going on? I mean, for a team that's supposed to be the Royal Club in Spain, I mean, surely they should be able to do better with the resources they have at a time where Barcelona is still trying to figure out where they're at.
- [34:41]
Dermot Corrigan
Yeah, for sure. Like it's been a. It was supposed to be a fresh start. Last summer at Real Madrid, they a Ancelotti had been a really successful coach for them, but they decided it was time to move on. They were going to sign this new, upcoming best new coach in Europe, Xabi Alonso, who was going to come in and introduce a whole new style of play into the team. They had spent a lot of money on some really exciting young players and this was a whole. A different type of Real Madrid was supposed to be the plan. Then Alonso falls out with some of the key guys in the dressing room, loses a couple of high profile games, especially the supercopa to Barcelona, and Florentino Perez, Madrid president, throws out that whole idea from last summer, goes back to the kind of vibes we are Real Madrid type of idea. Let's get all the be galacticos on the pitch at the same time and let's just make it work and lean into our history and our tradition and all those things. It worked against Manchester City because Fede Valverde came up with these three amazing goals, scored one of the best hat tricks of all time in the first half in the game. And that, you know, pretty much decided the tie. And that is Real Madrid. You know, one of your big Galactico players steps up on the big stage and does it for you. It's not a sustainable plan really for going forward or a rational plan. And it doesn't win you. La Liga like the Arbalau has already lost six of his first 19 games. Who knows what's going to happen. The club haven't been really clear about whether they appointed him as the next permanent manager or whether he's just a caretaker until the summer. That's still to be decided. And I guess it depends if they go out to Bayern Munich. If they go out fighting, then maybe abroad has a chance to keep the job. If they get embarrassed next week in in Munich, then he's probably out. But that's Real Madrid. You know, they come up with to be another plan next season. Maybe they get another new manager comes in. You know, Pochettino or whoever comes in to sign a couple of new stars as well. They've been good at selling players as well. Maybe they wheel and deal a bit, get rid of somebody from one of the big stars leaves, but somebody else comes in and I was going to say circus, which is a bit unfair, but just the show moves on and it's a different kind of show for next season, but it's not been a great season for them. They are on that kind of arbolo, as he's managing on vibes to an extent. He's got all of the things that work at Real Madrid. The galacticos, the youth system, our spirit, our heritage, our tradition. And if that is enough for them, then he'll keep the job. But even a not very good Barcelona team is probably going to win la Liga by 10 points, which tells you a lot about where Real Madrid are at the minute.
- [37:04]
Ayo Akimalare
Okay, and this is for the two of you. Out of either Madrid or Barcelona, who do you think is most likely to overturn the deficit for the next leg in the Champions League? Dermot, you go for this one first.
- [37:17]
Dermot Corrigan
Probably Barcelona. More likely to turn it around. Just because of what we're saying before about how Atletico, just when they're in a really good position, something tends to go wrong for them, which is unfortunate. I kind of hope we're always neutral on this show, I'm sure, but I kind of hope that Atletico, for their own sakes, that they don't manage to mess it up in this case with Madrid, they could have been beaten 40 by Bayern. Wouldn't have been a huge surprise the way the game went at certain times on Tuesday night, but they hung in there and they have Mbappe and they have a Vinicius and Bellingham is going to come back in. And Bayern looked really good going forward, but they didn't look that good going backwards. I thought Madrid cut them open quite easily different times. Even though this is not a vintage Madrid team, or it wasn't like they had a super tactical plan to cut Bayern open, they just ran at them and Bayern kind of couldn't deal with it at different times. So, yeah, I think both Bayern and Atletico should really logically go through in the ties, but but in the Champions League, logic often doesn't come into it, and especially when Real Madrid are being talked about.
- [38:13]
Paul Balus
Yeah, no, I think I'm going to back Barcelona as well as the most likely team to turn this around. I'm possibly not going to say it too loud because we all know what Real Madrid can do in this competition and the fact that they know how to hang in there and just to have this fight spirit and yeah, and there's something really good in realms they have confidence in believing that they can go to Munich and that they can put up to a fight. The best team in Europe, which they really believe in that and that's really a strength inside the club. But trying to be analytical and rational, I think that Barca has the better chance. Barca are a team that can score goals. They have scored more than two goals against Atletico plenty of times. They scored two goals at the Metropolitano last week. Last season in the league game they played there, they scored four goals. And so Barca can produce this sort of offensive outcome. And let's hope that in that in defense they have one of the best performance of the season, basically.
- [39:09]
Ayo Akimalare
Well, I tell you what, we'll bring you the reaction, I'm sure, of those next legs in the Champions League on the Athletic FC podcast. Gentlemen, I appreciate your time. Paul Derma, thanks for joining us and also thank you guys for joining us as well. We'll catch you next time.
- [39:26]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroo and Jay Beal with editing by Paul Iliff and Nick Thompson. The executive producer is Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic Wherever you get your podcasts. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an Athletic media company production.
- [40:04]
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- [40:34]
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