Loading summary
Transcript78 lines
- [00:00]
Host 1
When I started podcasting, it felt like I had to figure everything out myself. Booking guests, figuring out rundowns, editing the show and publishing it. It seemed like the list of to do's got bigger and bigger and when you're starting off with something new, it seems like that just happens. Finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything can be such a game changer. And for millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household name like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. Get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style, accelerate your content creation. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into a With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com TheAthletic go to shopify.com TheAThletic shopify.com TheAthLetic with an hour before boarding, there's only one place to go the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. There you can recharge before the big adventure or enjoy a locally inspired dish. You could recline in a comfy chair to catch up on your favorite show or order a craft cocktail at the bar. Whatever you're in the mood for, find the detail that moves you with curated touches at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club Chase. Make more of what's yours. Learn more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by.
- [02:01]
Host 2
JPMorgan Chase bank and a member FDIC.
- [02:03]
Host 3
Subject to credit approval.
- [02:04]
Sponsor 1
This podcast is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura is an all in one digital safety solution that monitors the dark web for your phone number, email and Social Security number, sending real time alerts if your info is found. It also includes a vpn, password manager and data broker removal to help keep you safe for a limited time. Aura is offering a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked, all for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and protect your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [03:00]
Host 3
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [03:07]
Ayo Akimulere
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimulere. At just 20 years old and with only 22 Premier League starts, Dean Hoisen is attracting interest from the likes of Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Real Madrid. So what makes him so special and who might trigger his 50 million pound release clause? Here with us today, crunching the numbers, our senior data analyst Mark Carey. And we've got Phil Hay with us as well. Right, let's get into this and hear from our football correspondent David Ornstein. First, on the level of interest on Howson.
- [03:48]
David Ornstein
Well, Dean Huyson is certainly a man in demand, which is fairly remarkable for a player of such a young age and who has been operating in the Premier League for such a short space of time. It's rare that you see central defenders aged 20 or 19 when he joined Bournemouth playing regular first team football in Europe's top divisions, but he's done exactly that and he's doing it exceptionally well. He joined Bournemouth for a relatively low fee from Juventus last summer. Andoni Iriola has bought the best out of him. It's why so many clubs are looking at signing him and activating a £50 million release clause that represents pretty good value for money. Leading the chase in alphabetical order is Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. There are others in the frame such as Newcastle United and Tottenham. I think it's Real Madrid who have always appealed most to the player himself, but at the time of recording I'm not aware of them being in a position to proceed with it. And both Bournemouth and the player would like this to be wrapped up relatively swiftly. So as things stand, that would see the Premier League as his most likely destination.
- [05:07]
Ayo Akimulere
All right, cheers for that, David and Mark. I mean, what a professional. He's giving it to us in alphabetical order as well. And who's interested in Dean Howson? But you've written for the Athletic about Howson along with Tom Harris, and I know you've definitely seen him in the flesh this season. Just tell us. It's got to be hard for anyone not to have seen clips of him on social media if they're into the Premier League. But what has made him stand out so much this season in the league?
- [05:31]
Host 2
Yeah, well, I've seen him a couple of times live this season and in order to. Because I was covering Bournemouth for a couple of those games, I was doing some preparation for those games by watching Bakker, the full games and every single one he did stand out in, which is quite telling considering it's a central defender. Normally it's more the attacking players that you sort of see with such grace on the ball. But he is the modern day center back is probably the way that I would almost stick a headline on it, which is, you know, credit to the side of play that he plays with. I think that again with a modern day centre back, there's a lot of focus on what a player can do on the ball. When we're talking about a defender, typically it's their defensive acumen which of course we can come on to. And he is very strong at. But I think as much as anything, when you think about the responsibility of a defender to start the team's buildup, more important now than ever that he is really strong on the ball. I think he steps out really well in terms of carrying the ball, progressing the play and committing players towards him, which allows space to be opened up in other areas. Or if you step off him, then he can play a really piercing fizzed pass into the midfielder. He can play on either foot with a diagonal to either side and spread the play as well. And to David's point, and I suppose a key theme of this episode is that this is all he was a teenager. I think he's only just turned 20 as well. So he's taking on all that responsibility. He's got that confidence and the ability himself to be able to execute those key actions. But thinking defensively as well. I'm probably getting ahead of myself of answering your question, subsequent questions all in one go because I am very excited by the style that he plays in. But he is very front footed off the ball as well. He's really comfortable coming into wide areas. When fullback Milos Kirkz pushes up, he's comfortable in just coming more towards the touchline when he needs to. He doesn't get sort of scared by moving out of his position. He can jump forward really well and intercept and read the game really well. And of course he's really physically able as well. I see different things whether he's 6 foot 5 or 6 foot 6, but he's a tall lad, put it that way I think there's still a bit of time for him to fill out and as David said, he's just turned 20 and it is rare for many players, but many defensive players to have so many minutes at the highest level at the age that he's at. So centre backs don't tend to be too available when they're 20 years old and centre backs will turn to their peak years in fighting or six years from now. So to see him at the, the age and the ability he's already at is why he's so exciting at the moment.
- [07:53]
Ayo Akimulere
Yeah, Phil, their piece also talks about how two footed this player is. You know, Mark and Tom's piece and I'm interested in this because we always talk about left footed center backs at two footed center back, the ball carrying center back. I mean he's still only 20 but these are some really interesting attributes and something to definitely be excited about.
- [08:10]
Host 3
It all comes back to the search for complete players or, or to put it a better way, I suppose, players who will make your team complete. And there definitely are coaches out there who see an advantage in having left and right footed options at centre back. I remember Marcelo Bielsa at Leeds, he was one. He was an absolute stickler for having a left footer on the left side of the pair and a right footer on the other side. And his view and his rationale for it was it made the distribution of the ball more consistent and fluid. With that balance. Howson is I think stronger on, on his left but also really accomplished on his right from, from what I've seen. And it's kind of like the best of both worlds really, isn't it? It gives you versatility, gives you adap. It's a bit of a godsend for a coach I guess. It's one of multiple reasons Mark listed many others why the whole of Europe seems to be suddenly homing in on him. Because while it isn't essential, I don't think that you are a two footed centre back. You get top tier central defenders who, who aren't truly, you know, in that category. It's a really big bonus tactically and that's something straight off the bat that you know that you're getting if you, if you pay the money for housing this summer.
- [09:12]
Ayo Akimulere
Yeah, you're spot on. And Mark, he's still only 20 years old. We've spoken about these amazing attributes that he's got but there is still time not to show that consistency through his career really anything we should be looking out for that he isn't doing quite so well.
- [09:28]
Host 2
Before I go into that, I think, you know, I'm going to offer my. My data spin on things in terms of sample size. I always think I mentioned that that term when I come onto this podcast. But I do think that for all that he has had a fantastic few months, I think it was only November that he really came into the team and got a regular spot because it was Marco Senesi. I think he had an injury and so he's. He's played over 900 minutes, which is typically a good sample that I like to work from this season for Bournemouth. But that's the first time that he's sort of had that many minutes in senior football. So, yes, he's playing at the highest level in the Premier League and doing really well at that. But in terms of having more of a confidence of what he will do in the longer term, ideally you would have more minutes to go from because obviously he played at Roma and Juventus Academy, if you like, before that and did well.
- [10:17]
Host 3
Do you get some players where that doesn't matter, Mark sample size, like you as an analyst will look at them and say it doesn't really matter that I haven't seen much of them. I can see instantly and straight away. I'm thinking a good example of that might be Lumino over at Barcelona. You know that you just know because of what's in front of you.
- [10:33]
Host 2
Yeah. And I think it's really important point and I think that especially with attacking players, you can see more because it's more on ball events and you've got more kind of opportunities to see what they can do. You can tell pace, you can tell trickery a mile off. I think sometimes with defenders and center backs specifically, how much have they been tested in certain situations? How much is it because of. Potentially they're doing really well from a team defensive standpoint, but it's because the central midfield or the defensive midfielder is covering them really well. So how much is it individually them, how much is it a tactical thing? How much is it broadly what they're stylistically asked to do? That's maybe covering certain attributes that they might have. But all of that being said, I agree, Phil. It might just be that we're willing to not gamble but take all of that into account and still go for this player. I think it's just the degree of confidence that you can have in saying this is an absolute cert that this is going to go well if you have more information and more minutes and more time on the pitch to be able to know that it's going to go well. I think to your point as well, given the attributes that he's shown at the highest level in the Premier League, there is still a high degree of confidence, maybe not in the numbers, but a high degree of confidence in his tactical skill set, his attributes that this is going to go well because you can just see by eye that this is a really accomplished player even at the age that he's at. And you think about then if a team, as I'm sure will come onto, if a certain team does look to try and get him in the summer, that's 10 plus years of his career that would potentially be at that club. So you can see why there's so much interest. Because if this player was 27, you'd say fantastic season that he's had, but maybe not as much resale value or value for money in the longer term. But at 20 years old, you can get a decade's worth of service knowing that these are the attributes that you're investing in.
- [12:10]
Ayo Akimulere
Yeah, for sure. On that sort of. How long has he been under the radar or on the radio, I should say, of the tactics community? Mark, how long have you guys been speaking about this young player?
- [12:19]
Host 2
Yeah, he's deemed to be something of a data darling, a tactics darling among the hipsters of the world. I'm not one of those, but I'm probably a little bit later to the party. But I think, yeah, from his time at Juventus, really, he was in the under 23s. He got some time at Roma, as I mentioned, and maybe, yeah, if not went under the radar, then I think again it was his attributes that you could see were definitely translatable to playing at a higher level. And in some of the clips that I've seen from him playing for those teams, the way that he can carry the ball out. And sometimes it's quite clear with certain players that they are just having fun with it at that level because they're so much better than the players they're playing against. That. You know, there's clips of Hoisen just dribbling through the opposition's midfield and just getting a shot away and rifling into the top corner. He doesn't do that every week for Bournemouth and that's okay. Cause that's not supposed to happen every week. But he just had the attributes to be able to show that it was too easy at that level. So it's good that he's being tested and able to show those, those skills to a greater or lesser extent at Bournemouth and for the international team, of course, he's capped by Spain now. I watched back the game against the Netherlands that he played and he was still showing such confidence against obviously a really strong international side. And within the piece, I included that all in the space of the same sequence. He did a lot of the attributes that I like to talk about him in general, where he was really front footed, he intercepted a pass, he carried the ball forward to beyond the halfway line and then he had a really piercing pass into the forward line as well. So within, I think it was seven or eight seconds, he showed all of his attributes on and off the ball. So. So well, so it's definitely there. And. And as I say that, the key thing is that it's translatable to a higher level of football.
- [14:03]
Host 3
Mark's point about age is a really good one. Centre backs are always in demand and the younger you can find them, the cheaper they they tend to be. He's 20 at the moment and the sort of age where clubs really do want to pick defensive prospects up. You've seen it with Lenny Yoro at Manchester United, Kusov at Manchester City as well. And if. If Heysen, as David Arnstein tells us, is £50 million, it's an affordable fee for an elite club. Not everybody, and it's a big investment still, but it's not outlandish. If you wait until a player has reached the status of, say, Gabriel or Saliba, to use two Arsenal examples, they're almost too expensive to buy. I suspect there's a really good reason why Real Madrid are almost parking their interest in Saliba while his contract at Arsenal runs down, or until it ends. If Arsenal dig their heels in, he surely falls into something close to the 100 million pound bracket, something Uber expensive, where you really have to dig deep to make it happen. So, you know, Hoisen does have a low number of Premier League appearances. But I've often wondered, and I'd be interested in Mark's view on this because he almost seemed to say the opposite previously, but whether it's possibly slightly easier to punt on a player who's in that position centre back than it is to gamble on, say, a winger or a number 9 attacker attacking midfielder whose game is perhaps a little bit more predictable, Possibly it's easier to look at the core skills of a centre back and say, they are absolutely there, let's spend the money. But equally, that might just be my perception.
- [15:32]
Host 2
No, I think it's an interesting point. I think given that centre backs don't peak until maybe 26, 27, 28, there's still a lot of time to nurture the skills that he clearly already kind of has, but to improve upon them. Whereas I think with attacking players, again, because it's biased towards what you do on the ball rather than off the ball and all the stuff that comes around it, you expect to see kind of an immediate impact. Even if the player is a prodigious teenager, you still want to see kind of output early on. But I think there's a bit more of a longer leash, shall we say, with centre backs, to make sure that fundamentally they're doing the right things, but there's a bit more kind of forgiveness in their attributes. And also going back to the question that you asked before Aya, which I don't know whether I fully answered in terms of maybe a couple of question marks.
- [16:14]
Ayo Akimulere
I mean, I was waiting for it. It's taken three answers, but come on, you can give it me now.
- [16:19]
Host 2
It shows just how much overwhelming positivity there around him. And the one thing from watching him that I'd maybe say is something that he maybe needs to improve upon is, and I included it within the piece, that he's maybe just sometimes a little bit overzealous within those front footed actions. So if, you know, as an opposition player, again, this thinks about, you know, think about sample size if he's a bit of an unknown quantity for a forward, normally it's the other way around of trying to stop the, the forward from playing as a defender. But if the forward's thinking of Hoisen's behind him and think, okay, I know that he's going to be the type of player who's going to get tight the minute I receive the ball, then I can spin him and I can look to see where he is and just put a bit of press or just keep him at arm's length, spin him and then I'm through. And that happened. It was in this Spain Netherlands game that I mentioned before, where I think it was Memphis Depay who could see him coming. And then because Hoisten stepped out of his position from central defence, there was a huge gap that opened up for someone else to run into. And then of course that's potentially fatal for him and his team, you see. So I'd probably say that he maybe needs to channel that eagerness, that keenness to sometimes step in to try and nip attacks in the bud and knowing when to drop off. And Bergier van Dijk being a key example of that is really good at knowing when to just leave it. Allow the player even to come onto you. But just keep your position, keep your space. Maybe wait for them to make a mistake and then kind of go for it. So he doesn't need to show that he's this complete defender by taking an action bias to do something. I think there's a skill in for a center back to know when to do something and when not to do something. That's probably an area I think he can improve.
- [17:48]
Ayo Akimulere
Yeah, I mean, look, he's still so young. I mean, so much further to go in the game. But very quickly, Phil, where does this put Bournemouth, you know, so much interest in. And we've talked about the sample size being small and actually the release clause and we'll go on to teams that might be interested a little later on. But you know, you don't want to lose your best players, especially as they're gathering momentum in what they're. We're trying to do.
- [18:08]
Host 3
No, but bless them. What can they do specifically with hows and you know, that is the nature of a, of a release clause. They've got no real power there unless there are other provisions or contingencies in it that give them a little bit more control. Meet the value at the date when you're allowed to and the player can leave. And it's not like it's an exorbitant sum either. It's really good money. And Bournemouth doing what Bournemouth do, I could see them reinvesting that really well because that's their kind of track record. But a number of clubs out there probably have the cash to do this, so it feels like it's a one way street towards him leaving in the summer. I think that's, that's pretty likely for Bournemouth. They can't get away from their reality, which is that they're a bit ripe for the picking. You know, Kirk is. Does he go to Liverpool? Can they really hold on to Antoniola for any great length of time? I feel like Kluiver has had a super season for them and is probably pricking a few ears and attracting a bit of attention. Unfortunately, there's a food chain in football and in European terms they're not at the top of it. And when it comes to Hoisin, they really seem pretty powerless in this, apart from to take the money.
- [19:10]
Ayo Akimulere
Okay, well, having discussed the level of interest in the defender, next we'll look at who might suit him best.
- [19:18]
Host 2
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akimolera.
- [19:22]
Host 3
Right.
- [19:24]
Sponsor 2
Today'S episode is brought to you by Shopify, who know very well that when you're starting something new, it seems like that to do list can just keep on growing. When we started this very podcast, we had to figure out all on our own how to get the show on the air, how to set topics, do the research, find sponsors, learn how to grow the audience. And that was all without even launching an online store or selling any merchandise. So finding the right tool to help simplify that to do list and streamline things and get things done can be a game changer for millions of businesses. That game changing tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all E commerce in the United States. From household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. With hundreds of retailers ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style. It is packed with helpful AI tools to help with content creation that is going to help you write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. You can get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you, even if you don't. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. So if you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.comTSS go to shopify.comTSS one more time. Shopify.comTSS.
- [21:03]
Host 1
With an hour before boarding, there's only one place to go. The Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. There you can recharge before the big adventure or enjoy a locally inspired dish. You can recline in a comfy chair to catch up on your favorite show or order a craft cocktail at the bar. Whatever you're in the mood for, find the detail that moves you with curated touches at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club Chase. Make more of what's yours. Learn more@chase.com SapphireReserve cards issued by JPMorgan.
- [21:31]
Host 3
Chase bank and Amber FDIC subject to credit approval.
- [21:34]
Sponsor 1
This podcast is brought to you by Aura. Imagine waking up to find your bank account drained, bills for loans you never took out, a warrant for your arrest. All because someone stole your identity. Hackers aren't waiting. Why are you? That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Your personal data is a goldmine for hackers and Aura helps lock it down. Aura monitors the Dark Web blocks data brokers from selling your information. Includes a VPN for private browsing and a password manager to secure your accounts before criminals break in. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and start protecting yourself and your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [22:32]
Ayo Akimulere
Okay Amongst the Premier League clubs hoping to sign Howson Our Champions Elect Liverpool. Here's our Liverpool correspondent James Pearce and why Howson fits the mold from what Arna Slot's side will be looking for this summer.
- [22:46]
James Pearce
Well, Liverpool are in the market for defensive reinforcements this summer and Hoisten certainly fits the bill in terms of his age, his technical qualities and the fact that he possesses Premier League experience already. Also that 50 million pound release clause, I think that's a piece feeling because it avoids the prospect of protracted negotiations. Liverpool have taken advantage of similar situations when they bought Alexis McAllister and Dominic Zaboslai a couple of years ago and there is a fair bit of uncertainty around the center back options that are available to on a slot currently. Of course they've got clarity now on Virgil Van Dijk, him having signed a new two year extension, but Ibrahima Kanate down to his final year and talks over an extension have dragged on for most of this season. There's also been speculation of a Gerald Quanza who's attracted interest from Newcastle previously. And then you throw into the mix the fact that Joe Gomez, Liverpool's longest serving player, hasn't played since February due to injury. So in in terms of where Hoisen would fit in, I think clearly he has the potential to be Van Dijk's long term successor as Liverpool's left sided center back. Also part of the appeal is that Hoisen is is two footed and there's no reason why he couldn't play alongside Van Dijk and and benefit from that the Dutchman's absolute wealth of experience for the next couple of seasons as his development continues. So yeah, certainly one for the future but I think if Liverpool do get this deal done he'd also be one for the current as well.
- [24:16]
Ayo Akimulere
Yeah thanks for that James. And actually interesting stat that only Arsenal, Liverpool and Forest have conceded fewer goals than Bournemouth in the Premier League this season. Obviously we've spoken about the release clause and also I can see what the attraction might be for Liverpool. But Mark, from your perspective, how will he fit into Arna Slot system at Liverpool? From a tactics perspective?
- [24:38]
Host 2
Yeah, I think again thinking tactically with the way that Andoni Eurola likes to play quite aggressive across the whole pitch, I think that's in keeping with the way that Honor Slot likes to play. I think if you think of someone like maybe Murillo, who's really good reviews at Nottingham Forest, you were to then put him in a. A Liverpool side for example, or a side who's a bit more willing to play a higher line then he might be. I was going to say a fish out of water. But he might have more time to. Need more time to adapt because it's a completely or a wholly different playing style, whereas it would be a bit more congruent, a bit more consistent with the. The two styles between Bournemouth and Liverpool. So I think that would certainly play into his ability to hopefully hit the ground running if he were to go to Liverpool. James makes a good point with how he'd maybe be able to fit in on either side. I think that a lot of the talk this season has been about Virgil van Dijk maybe leaving and having succession planning for Virgil van Dijk in general. But if you get him in the building and then have the opportunity for Virgil van Dijk to nurture Hoisen as a player and nurture his skill sets, whether it's playing alongside him, as James mentioned, he's got the ability to play with both feet as we mentioned, but play on either side, both left and right centre back. So you could play alongside him for a bit and then eventually be the one to. If Virgil van Dijk is the one to leave in a couple of years, as his contract currently will be, then he can then step into those shoes and you've got a bit more of a continued process. I think another thing which is interesting as well is if Trent Alexander Arnold is going to leave this summer is just how much you need to think about Liverpool's ball progression. Exactly. You could try and just replace like for like, which is almost impossible given the skill set that Trent Alexander Arnold has. But you still need to think of ways to have those switches of play, have those diagonal balls, have those, you know, this piercing passing through balls through the lines. And I think that that's another way that they can think of a way to have that within a centre back and not necessarily a right back and just shuffle around how they get the ball from the defensive third to the middle third or even straight into the final third with More balls played over the top or through balls. So again thinking defensively but also in terms of ball progression on ball stuff, I think that's a real attribute that slot will value across the team rather than just trying to replace like for like Trent Alexander Arnold on the right hand side, side.
- [26:53]
Ayo Akimulere
Yeah, Mark makes a really good point, Phil. And as he was saying that this was literally what I was thinking. You know, we're talking about a modern center back here and maybe obsessing about the fact that he could be a success successor to Virgil Van Dijk. But if you've got a player that can carry the ball well, pass the ball well, play with both feet. Who says defending or as a center back is all we see him as We've seen it with Miles Lewis, Skelling, we've seen it. Trent Alexander, Arnold, we've seen it with John Stones slipping into midfield that Pep Guardiola likes to move around. I mean it's not just defense we probably need to be looking at here is that we've got an all round player that can all across the back line.
- [27:25]
Host 3
Very much so. Guardiola's made that fashionable, hasn't he? The idea that accomplished center backs who are good on the ball can move into midfield again to go back to Bielsa. I used to see him do that a lot at Leeds, particularly in Calvin Phillips was, was injured moving into that holding midfield role. You get Ben White playing there as an example and others, it can be done. I think rationally though somebody has to replace Van Dijk at somewhere at some stage down, down the line. You know this new contract at Liverpool is going to squeeze the last drops of elite class out of him. I would have thought the right decision to keep him definitely. But I'm not so sure there'll be another deal beyond it. Unless Van Dijk makes big concessions to stick around. You know, it feels like, like this will probably be it for him. So who comes in further down the line and you know, it seems to me that a couple of seasons in Van Dijk's orbit would do house and no harm at all. But at the same time for him to advance and not just at club level, but international level as well, he has to be playing, you know, he has to be getting games and two years of floating around watching Van Dijk isn't really what he needs. This is where he needs to be tested and he needs to be pushed. It does feel to me actually like that debut for Spain a month or so back was what really set the hairs running. It's not that recruitment departments wouldn't have known about him or been looking at him or analyzing him because they definitely would have been. But the ease with which he slotted into that team, the quality of the past to Yamal for that goal and so on. It's as if it's made everybody sit up and mobilize and decide, right, okay, now's the time and I can see.
- [28:53]
Ayo Akimulere
Why, yeah, I needed to play as well and you just mentioned it there is this why we could potentially, I mean who knows what will happen but potentially discount Arsenal? I mean they're fully well stocked at the back, aren't they Phil?
- [29:03]
Host 3
Yeah, I mean good players are good players, top players are top players and, and clubs can almost never have enough of them. But you could see the sense in it to mitigate for example real's interest in Saliba if you feel a little bit like Van Dijk might be heading out to Liverpool in two years time if Saliba is off to the Bernabeu in two years time. And granted Saliba plays on the other side to with House in favors but you know, if we're talking about somebody who can play in either position, then there is a potentially ready made replacement at that point. I kind of question though, what whether Arsenal really need him at the moment and I get the sense that when it comes to the summer a number nine will be where the bulk of their money goes or at least where the bulk of their attention is trained on and that is going to cost. So whether they have a spare £50 million to do house and I have my doubts and I not totally convinced that Arteta would see it as a mega priority.
- [29:53]
Ayo Akimulere
Okay, well away from those competing for the title, Chelsea are also amongst those hoping to sign House. And here's our Chelsea correspondent Liam Toomey on the Blues need for, dare I say another center back.
- [30:07]
Liam Toomey
In an ideal world Chelsea would probably just go with Levi Colwill and Wesley Fafana as their settled starting center back pairing for years to come. But they don't operate in an ideal world. Fofana can't be relied upon to get through a season healthy and beyond him. Whether you're talking about Benoit Badiashil who more of a natural left sided center back Trevor Chaliba who was recalled from Crystal palace in January, tosin or Axel D'Zasi who's likely to leave this summer or rising academy prospect Joshua Champong. They have a lot of players but no one who's really nailed down that spot next to Colwill. So it's no surprise that they're looking at centre backs this summer. And in that respect, Dean Hyson fits the profile style of the kind of player they target across all positions. He's young, he's already exhibiting elite potential shining in the Premier League, someone that they could sign to an ultra long contract and would probably fit into the lower base salary, high incentive model that Clearlake have implemented across the squad. And then just looking from a football perspective, he's a ball playing centre, center back, comfortable, making decisions with the ball at his feet, playing through and around, pressure, defending in space, his body could still develop because he's so young. These are all things that Enzo Maresca will look for in his team. And, and so it's no surprise that Hoisen is on Chelsea's list.
- [31:40]
Ayo Akimulere
I mean, we joke about Chelsea making another signing, Phil, but I mean as a compelling case there, Fafana's barely played that back line. There are gaps there where he could probably see himself getting a lot of game time if he stays fit.
- [31:55]
Host 3
It's a good sales pitch, but it feels a little bit like where someone trying to sell you something fills in the positive column heavily and leaves the rest of it empty. There was a really good piece this week actually that our new finance expert Chris Weatherspoon did, the bookkeeper, as he's become known, and it was looking at Chelsea's accounts. I think it's probably no Premier League club who, who invite more scrutiny or focus on their accounts than Chelsea. And the one thing that he noticed was that the recent. You'd seen stories recently about the sale of property, the hotels and also the women's team to companies connected to their ownership, some of which has still got to be sorted out by the Premier League. But when he did the numbers, he noticed that it actually gave them via the profits that they turned as a result of that, some good profit and sustainability or you know, PSR headroom, which kind of implied that the splurge on transfers, which has been mega for a while, wasn't going to change anytime soon. So Chelsea aren't exactly awash with world class center backs and I can see why it makes sense to them, but to my mind, everything at Stamford Bridge still looks pretty confused from the outside, or a little bit confused. And there's still no definite feeling that the strategy that Clear Lake Harvest is going to work and Heussen would need convinced of that. I mean, I know that he hasn't played much, I know there's this discussion about his potential, but Bournemouth are a very well established Premier League team, and a very good one at that, within their own limits. And it kind of stands to reason for me that Houston's next move would be into the the top bracket and of course he has to meet those levels. But if you wanted to pluck a comparison, and this is from the coaching world, it's a bit like Xavi Alonso potentially going to Real Madrid. You know, it's a big leap for of Alonso. He'd be going right to the top. But what else would he be aiming for at this stage? Well, Hoisen isn't quite at the same point. He'll surely have the same thought in his head. And yes, I can see this appealing to Chelsea and I see all the ways in which it fits with Chelsea's strategy, but it doesn't feel like necessarily a great move for him or the best move out there.
- [33:51]
Ayo Akimulere
Okay, well, given the level of interest in the defender, it's fair to say that there will be a demand for center backs this summer. Well, let's get back to David Ornstein on who else could be on the market this summer.
- [34:04]
David Ornstein
No particular order. The likes of Murillo done so well at Nottingham Forest, they'll absolutely hope to retain him, but that won't stop clubs from looking at him. Mark Gay at Crystal palace approaching the final 12 months of his contract. No news on a fresh deal. I wouldn't expect him to sign one. So is it a sale? We saw him heavily linked with Newcastle last summer. Chelsea, who he used to play for and others.
- [34:28]
Host 3
Others.
- [34:28]
David Ornstein
Or does he stay and see out the final 12 months at Selhurst park before leaving as a free agent? More on the continent you have the likes of Jonathan Tarr going to leave by Leverkusen. You have a teammate of his, Piero Hincapi, who signed a new contract, but that won't stop admiring glances from elsewhere. Jarod Branthwaite at Everton. A constant source of speculation given Everton's financial, financial situation and many admirers. Manchester United have looked at him. Chelsea have him on their radar. Chelsea. So to have somebody like Jarell Hatto of Ajax in their sights, but again, doesn't mean they'll go for him or that he'll be leaving. But this is a player who the likes of Arsenal have looked at very closely in the past. He stayed at Ajax to continue his development but inevitably a move will be on the cards at some point and so let's see what happens in that centre back merry go round. There are a lot of options and a lot of clubs looking for this sort of position, but not A great deal of clarity yet on who is going to go where, what pieces of the jigsaw will fall into place and the dominoes that fall inevitably have consequences that allow these things to take shape. So we'll keep you across all of it on the athletic and it should be fascinating in the weeks and months ahead. Ahead. Certainly a busy summer awaits.
- [35:49]
Ayo Akimulere
Yeah, you can tell David's gearing up for a very busy summer, honestly. And Bark, we've spoken on the podcast about, you know, the lack of elite center forward options on the market. But you know, how different is it with center backs in particular? You know, we, we've highlighted the, the eliteness potentially of, of Howson, but also I, I guess is there something people are looking for now? They. Are they looking for the old school center back or is it more the ball playing center back as we're seeing with these young ones emerging? Emerging?
- [36:16]
Host 2
Yeah, I think that the way that people are wanting to play more positional principles, it's probably more likely to have a play of Hoyssen's skill set than I mentioned Murillo before, than maybe his. And he's a fantastic player, but really well suited to the style of player that Nuno Espirito Santa likes to play as well. So I think it's probably geared more towards Heusen's skill set. One thing I think which is worth mentioning as well in terms of one of his main attributes that then feeds into why it's so well regarded at the elite level is you mentioned his ability to carry the ball as well. In the modern day, there's so much man for man marking where everyone kind of gets paired up and if you've got the ability to have someone who may be slightly risky, but he's got the confidence and the ability to step out and commit his man, maybe get past his man, then again then creates a bit of a domino effect and they can fall and you can really unpick a team as a consequence. So if you've got a centre back who's able to really puff his chest out and say, well I'm going to then break this first line, then that can be really crucial from an attacking perspective because of the nature of the way that tactics are is going now, more man for man. So I think that's really interesting as well in terms of his skill set. But there are still plenty of young centre backs who are out there across Europe. I mean, David mentioned a lot of them, but thinking about in Portugal as well. Antonio Silva at Benfica has been spoken about quite widely for a couple of seasons now. The guys at Sporting cp, Gonzalo Inacio and Ousmane Diamande have been spoken about with moves in the past couple of summers as well. In Italy, Giorgio Scalvino at Atalanta is really well regarded. Did a really, really good young centre back mentioned. Murillo Marilla is only 22 years old by the way, which is why I think he's another one that's being sort of highly coveted. I really like Jan Paul Van Hecker at Brighton. I think he's 24, had a really good season. He's another example of that progressive player who's willing to break lines in in possession and really kickstart his team's attack. So it's always going to be a challenge to find good young centre backs that you can have for a long period, but it's maybe just a case of looking hard enough, maybe sometimes going further afield and maybe taking a chance on a younger player. As I say, with Bournemouth it's gone from not playing too many minutes at Juventus academy again, shall we say Roma for a short period of time then to Bournemouth. Could an elite side maybe skip that Bournemouth phase if you like, and take a chance on a teenager and say actually we can maybe get this player for a fraction of the price. I was going to say him in the 10s 20s in terms of millions. Save yourself money in the long term by just taking a little bit more of a risk risk and trying to find those young players before they kind of reach that bridge club if you like, with the greatest respect of Bournemouth and invest early on and back yourself to have that player and you know is going to be elite.
- [38:53]
Ayo Akimulere
Well, next we'll assess what options could sit away from the Premier League for the Spanish centre back.
- [39:02]
Host 2
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamolere.
- [39:09]
Sponsor 1
This podcast is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura is an all in one digital safety solution that monitors the dark web for your phone number, email and Social Security number, sending real time alerts if your info is familiar. It also includes a vpn, password manager and data broker removal to help keep you safe for a limited time. Aura is offering a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked all for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and protect your loved ones. That's aura.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [40:01]
Host 2
Foreign this is the Athletic FC podcast with I.O. acemolare.
- [40:11]
Ayo Akimulere
Back in March, Dean Howssen made his international debut for Spain against the Netherlands, the country of his birth. Here's our Real Madrid writer Guillermo Rai. Honor their interest in him even if they may not be able to make a move in the immediate future beyond.
- [40:26]
Guillermo Rai
His clause, which Real Madrid may be hesitant to pay because the club has been conservative in its spending on transfers in recent windows. Dean Huizen is a player Real Madrid like a lot, but not only for one reason. For starters, the player is 20 years old. It's a young project who can last for many years at the club, but also could be really important, really quick after the Crusader League. I mean injuries. The ACLs of the Central backs David Alaba, Militao and the academy player Joan Martini, who was really promising, is still unclear who will be with Antonio Rudiger at the Central back next season. This season the academy player Raoul has established himself as a starter, but this could change with the arrival of Whison, who is very complete both off the ball and on the ball because of his personality. He's really like. That is exactly what happened in the last international break when Huizen was called up in the last minute by the head coach Luis de la Fuente and ended up being the most outstanding player despite the fact that he was born in the Netherlands, the fact that he has a Spanish passport sport. He feels Espana is also a plus for Madrid. But above all, if they send Huizen, Real Madrid will be signing a player who really wants to join them and who has the club now as his priority. In different interviews, including one we did here at the Athletic, he insisted that it's always an honor to be linked with Real Madrid and that his idol is Sergio Ramos. And I think you can get much clearer than that.
- [41:49]
Ayo Akimulere
Well, I tell you what Mark, we did see in the Champions League just how unbalanced Real Madrid are as a team, especially centre back. I mean, Rudiger is still doing the job, but you know, he's been there a fair bit and you know Militao probably hasn't played much of the season. Sample size of games he's played. This could be potentially an interesting move for the young lad.
- [42:08]
Host 2
Yeah, true. I mean, Aurelian Tuameni has been having to deputize in center back for quite a bit of this season, obviously not so much in recent weeks, but I think that the breakout season for raulicencio as well has been maybe making Real Madrid think twice, but they have had centre back issues and had to stick a plaster on things for, for the short term. So I agree, I think, don't think Militao played too much last season as well. I think he had his, his injury.
- [42:33]
Ayo Akimulere
Issues, you know, Alabaster coming back from injury as well.
- [42:36]
Host 2
Right, so exactly, yeah. Alaba, yeah. And he's not. Well, he's not 20 years old, put it that way. So I think again, thinking about the, the longer term, someone maybe, yeah, like Asensio and, and hoisten together could be another one that for the, the next decade you could have, you could really set your, your centre back pairing up and, and for all that Real Madrid do fantastic players, you look at how much they do have kind of longevity across the squad. They do really like to, when they have a good player, keep them for a really long period, not least. Because where would you go if not Real Madrid? They are, you know, right at the elite level, right at the top. So if they could maybe lock him down, then it certainly would be the case that he'd stay there for a long period. But yeah, I can see it. I mean, in terms of the, the step up, it's. He's used to maybe being around elite environments, of course, Bournemouth being an example of that, but especially with, you know, being brought through Juvent and Roma knowing what it's like to play for a European giant, whether or not he'd be able to settle in straight away, we don't know. Obviously the language thing would be so, so easy to assimilate with the club in that way, but it's a massive, massive move to go from Bournemouth to Real Madrid in that regard. The pressure, the scrutiny would be tenfold. But in terms of whether he read fit and, and be suited to that, I suppose any time will tell.
- [43:57]
Ayo Akimulere
Yeah. Phil, I can't believe this is a player under Juve's nose and they let him go. And it's such a shame because this happens in football all the time, right? A certain team doesn't fancy them, they end up being amazing elsewhere. But looking at the problems Juve have got right now, surely this is the kind of player they would love to have kept hold of.
- [44:13]
Host 3
Oh, for sure. And look over at Fiorentina, who's scoring loads of goals for them as well. And you know that there is a little bit of a, of, of a trend, but as you say it does, it does happen elsewhere. I think circumstances were different, but it's a little bit like Cole Palmer going from Manchester City to Chelsea and suddenly looking at City and thinking, well, he wouldn't be hurting them at all if he was actually still there. It seemed to me to be quite telling what Guillermo was saying previously, which is that he was almost making it sound like hoisten's first choice would be Real Madrid, which is, I guess, slightly complicated on the basis that to go back David Ornstein's info, and his info is very rarely wrong. It doesn't sound like Real Madrid necessarily have the money to do it, or if they're going to do it, they're going to have to try and stretch themselves to some degree. Although to my mind, it would make sense. You know, it'd be a really sound investment. There is a lack of balance in their team, but there is a lack of numbers defensively as well. They've been done in by injuries, they've been done in a little bit by the failure to recruit there. For all the talk of a new center back in January, they did nothing in the end and it has left them short. They've gone big on the Galactico element more recently, you know, Mbappe, Jude Bellingham, but they almost need to apply focus or switch focus to what it is that they actually need. And a centre back is one of those things. So all roads do kind of lead to somebody like Howsson, if you're planning for the future and for years ahead, as opposed to the immediate problems that you have. But even though he seems ultra keen, it surely is going to come down to cash in the end. Those who can afford will get in the mix and then it will be a case of him taking his pick.
- [45:49]
Ayo Akimulere
Yeah, for sure. And they were also after Lenny Yara before he went to Manchester United as well. Who knows if money was an issue that I think. Spoke to Guillermo yesterday, we had him on the show and he was saying, you know, there are certain deals that Real Madrid just aren't doing right now. The Trent Alexander Arnold one, for instance, if that is going to go ahead, it's a free and, you know, they'll make the money off the back end of it, but actually, in terms of transfer fees, they rarely go that high. Anyway, final question to the both of you, and we've gone around the houses in terms of where this player could possibly end up, be honest, does feel like a likely Premier League destination, or could we see him, you know, in Spain? Could we see him at Bayern Munich, they're another team. We've not spoken about that. We're sort of sniffing around him as well. Phil, what do you reckon?
- [46:29]
Host 3
Well, you gave us three options when you sent us through the notes for this. One was La Liga, one was Premier League, I. E. Not Bournemouth, or one is stay where he is at the moment. I don't see. See happening. There's too much interest. I don't feel as if Real Madrid are going to push the boat out and get this one done. So to my mind, it will be a Premier League move for him, a top Premier League move. And I think he is on Real Madrid. I think he and other people around him will probably push the virtue of a bit of continuity, geographical continuity, in the sense of staying in the same league, staying in a league that you've got to grips with and that you know well. And I have a feeling that would probably be best for his career at this stage.
- [47:09]
Host 2
Yeah, no, I agree. I absolutely agree. I think that the quality that he's shown in a different, more of a difficult league in the Premier League than La Liga, for all that he might. It might make sense personally for him to maybe make a move to La Liga. I think that he's. His stock is as high as it has been currently and that should continue in the. The Premier League. I think that, yeah, there's just no chance. I mean, as much as anything from. From the sources that we've heard, it looks like he's going to move in the summer. But if nothing else as well, if he were to stay at Bournemouth, the off chance that he would, the idea that they might get picked apart, then maybe even the manager going as well, that he might then sort of fade into the background and his stock might then reduce just as a consequence of the team as well. So if he's going to make a move, I think it should be this summer because his stock is at a premium and then he can sort of build his career further from here.
- [47:56]
Ayo Akimulere
Yeah, for sure. Gents, honestly, that was a really entertaining conversation. We appreciate it. Definitely keep your eyes on this and listen.
- [48:02]
Host 3
I will. I'll come back with a St. Paulie shirt next time so we can enhance Katie's hipster credentials. Consider that done.
- [48:11]
Ayo Akimulere
Love it. Love it. All right, Phil, Mark, thanks so much. And David, James and Liam as well. And Guilhero, thanks for sharing your thoughts and thank you guys for listening. We'll be back soon.
- [48:21]
Host 2
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroot and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Ailey Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an Athletic Media Company production.
- [48:43]
Host 3
The Athletic FC Podcast Network ready for.
- [48:52]
Host 1
Takeoff with your 300 travel credit from Chase Sapphire Reserve.
- [48:56]
Host 3
Booking your next adventure just got easier. Experience the world like an insider with.
- [49:01]
Host 2
Chase Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP.
- [49:03]
Host 3
Morgan Chase and a member FDIC subject to credit approval.
- [49:06]
Host 1
Terms Apply why Choose a Sleep Number.
- [49:08]
Sponsor 1
Smart Bed Can I make my side softer? Can I make my side firmer?
- [49:12]
Host 1
Can we sleep cooler? Sleep Number does that cools up to.
- [49:15]
Host 3
Eight times faster and lets you choose.
- [49:16]
Host 1
Your ideal comfort on either side. Your Sleep Number setting It's the Sleep Number Everything Smart Bed Sale Every Smart bed and base are on sale during our Memorial Day event. Up to 50% off plus free home delivery, limited time exclusively to Sleep Number Store near you. Learn more@sleepnumber.com.
- [49:36]
Sponsor 1
This podcast is brought to you by Aura. Imagine waking up to find your bank account drained, bills for loans you never took out, a warrant for your arrest. All because someone stole your identity. Hackers aren't waiting. Why are you? That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Your personal data is a goldmine for hackers, and Aura helps lock it down. Aura monitors the Dark Web, blocks data brokers from selling your information. Includes a VPN for private browsing and a password manager to secure your accounts before criminals break in. For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and start protecting yourself and your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety. Terms apply. Check the site for details.