Why have Chelsea changed their transfer strategy?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Athletic FC Podcast

Episode: Why have Chelsea changed their transfer strategy?
Date: August 6, 2026
Host: Adam Leventhal
Guests: Tim Spears, Liam Tharm, Simon Johnson

---

Episode Overview

This episode explores Chelsea FC’s recent pivot in transfer strategy—specifically their decision to supplement a previously youth-centric squad with the veteran signings of Danny Welbeck and Jordan Henderson. The panel examines why this shift has occurred, its implications for Xabi Alonso’s new regime, and what it reveals about the club’s ambitions and underlying planning (or lack thereof). The discussion incorporates insights into squad management, player roles, financial penalties, and the off-field challenges affecting Chelsea.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Chelsea’s Radical Strategy Shift

• Setting the Scene:

  • Chelsea’s last season: Finished 10th, missed out on Europe, youngest squad in the League (02:24)
  • Prior approach: Major focus on young talent, long contracts, heavy spending
  • New signings: Veterans Danny Welbeck and Jordan Henderson (01:10, 04:13)

• Tim Spears (03:11):

  • "They assembled the most expensive squad in the history of the sport and last season finished 10th, you know, below Brentford, Brighton, Bournemouth."
  • Emphasizes the scale of failure given Chelsea's spending and past successes (Champions League winner just years ago).
  • Calls the recent era "an absolute disaster" amidst mismanaged signings, overlong contracts, and poor squad balance.

2. The Value—and Risk—of Experience

• Panel Consensus (05:01-07:34):

  • Recognizes the squad was too young, lacked on-pitch leadership, emotional maturity, and game management.
  • Liam Tharm (05:52): Questioned whether veterans need to be regular starters to provide value: “If you've then got Danny Welbeck starting 25, 30 games in a season, same for Jordan Henderson...is that then becoming a problem in terms of minutes for those young players?”
  • Tim highlights Chelsea’s poor disciplinary record (8 red cards, 90 yellows last season) as evidence the squad needs steadier heads (07:55).

• Leadership & Squad Dynamics (09:34):

  • Concerns that positioning Henderson and Welbeck as “the guys that are going to sort out and manage the dressing room” could be perceived negatively by young, internationally-experienced players.

• Notable Quote – Tim Spears (09:34):

  • "Can you just buy respect?... Normally, that happens sort of naturally from within as players grow and become more experienced...these guys, they have, like, vibe signings basically, you know, come in and run the dressroom. It’s an unusual concept."

3. The American Influence & Overcorrection

• Squad Building Critique (10:02-11:56):

  • Liam describes the young-talent arms race as reminiscent of American sports draft logics:

    • "It's quite American, right, in the way that they would work in American sports with a draft system..."

  • Concern over overcorrection:

    • Chelsea risks swinging from "too young" to "too old" instead of fostering generational succession.

• “Buddy System” and Squad Clutter (12:26-13:53):

  • Discussion about Morgan Rogers' signing and the complexities of fitting both him and Cole Palmer into the setup.
  • Tim humorously notes Chelsea’s proliferation of strikers: “That’s five into one probably…How many center [players] they got now? 13, 14 at the same time.”

4. Tactical Implications under Xabi Alonso

• The Granit Xhaka Comparison (14:07-16:10):
  • Alonso’s prior success with an experienced anchor (Xhaka at Leverkusen) is invoked as an inspiration for Henderson’s role.
  • Liam Tharm: Questions whether Henderson fills a pressing technical gap, given existing midfield talent (Fernandez, Caicedo, Reece James).
  • Welbeck's potential impact in partnering Joao Pedro is highlighted based on historic chemistry (14:37).

5. Is There a Real Plan?

• Simon Johnson’s Defense (20:32-23:11):

  • Argues that a plan was always in place—building a young, bonded squad on long contracts—but now being tweaked with experience.
  • Admits early veteran signings flopped (Sterling, Koulibaly, Aubameyang), possibly causing overcompensation by going ultra-youth.

• Liam’s Skepticism (23:27):

  • "If your get out is that there’s always been a plan in theory but it’s not worked…then I don’t know if you ever really had a plan, right."
  • Notes Chelsea’s impatience—offloading young signings after just a season or so.
  • Criticizes their limited promotion of their own academy talents compared to purchased youngsters.

6. Off-Field: The Financial and Legal Overhang

• Chelsea’s FA Fine (24:30-29:53):

  • Chelsea fined £10 million for 74 historical FA charges.
  • Simon Johnson: Chelsea self-reported, claimed current owners not responsible, and were cooperative (25:06).
  • Tim Spears: Sees the punishment as “chump change”, argues self-reporting shouldn’t mitigate responsibility, even under new owners (29:01).
    • “Pleading guilty to a crime in real life…doesn’t mean you don’t get jail time.”

• Comparisons to Man City’s Ongoing Issues (29:32):

  • Panel notes City’s situation may bring more severe repercussions.

7. Squad Management: Mykhailo Mudryk and Enzo Fernandez

• Mudryk’s Return (32:55-35:32):

  • After doping suspension, Mudryk is back but faces tough competition.
  • Simon Johnson: Expects Mudryk will likely be loaned out to get game time.

• Enzo Fernandez’s Future (35:32-37:26):

  • Despite rumors and Real Madrid links, nothing materialized—expected to stay but with window still open.
  • Moises Caicedo and others urge him to remain; question how he’ll reintegrate after a contentious summer (35:59, 37:52).

• Valentin Barco Anecdote (38:04-38:36):

  • Lighthearted discussion of Barco’s on-field persona—more of a “villain” than Fernandez.

8. Can Alonso and Experience Steady the Ship?

• Final Thoughts on Welbeck/Henderson Moves (39:26-42:18):
  • Liam Tharm: Stresses Chelsea need “patience”—stop the cycle of abrupt overhauls; the current squad and management need time to gel.
  • Tim Spears: Points to the ludicrously large attacking roster ("That's a serious, serious amount of... Well, 13"), emphasizes the need for squad streamlining (41:09).
  • Optimism that with Alonso’s track record and more alignment at the club, improvement is possible—but not instant.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Tim Spears on Chelsea's failure (03:11):
  • "For the money they've spent and the club that they inherited...it's been an absolute disaster."
• Liam Tharm on overcorrection (05:01):
  • "Otherwise you just end up in a bit of a state of overcorrections... brought so young, now we have to buy really, really older players..."
• Tim Spears on buying respect (09:34):
  • “Can you just buy respect? You know, can these...you're the guys that are going to sort out and manage the dressing room...an unusual concept.”
• Simon Johnson on Chelsea’s ‘plan’ (20:32):
  • “I've always understood the theory of the plan...predominantly signing young players full of potential...to build a team that would grow old together...”
• Tim Spears on the FA fine (29:01):
  • “A £10 million fine, Adam, is chump change… That’s a year of one employee’s salary. So it’s not a lot of money...it should have had a far more serious punishment.”
• Liam Tharm on patience (39:26):
  • "Honestly think they just need some kind of patience...should probably just hold things together for a year or two and see where that gets them."
• On the attacking logjam (41:09):
  • Tim Spears: "Just going to run [through] them very quickly — J. Pedro, Morgan Rogers, Cole Palmer, Pedro Neto, Estevao, Jamie Gittins, Giovanni Quenda, Nicholas Jackson, Liam De Lapp, Mark Gay, Danny Welbeck and now Mikhailo Mudrick... that's 12 attackers."

---

Important Timestamps

• 01:10 – Introduction and stating the episode’s main question
• 03:11 – Tim Spears on Chelsea’s decline and mismanaged spending
• 05:01 – Liam Tharm on balancing experience and youth, on-pitch vs. off-pitch leadership
• 07:55 – Tim Spears on discipline and the rationale for experience signings
• 09:34 – Discussion on “buying respect” and possible dressing room tensions
• 10:02 – Liam: Youth recruitment as an "American" approach
• 12:26 – Morgan Rogers, squad fit, and transfer buddy system
• 14:07 – Comparing Henderson's potential role to Xhaka’s at Leverkusen
• 20:32 – Simon Johnson: Has Chelsea always had a transfer plan?
• 24:30 – Chelsea’s FA fine and self-reporting
• 32:55 – Mudryk’s return after suspension
• 35:32 – Enzo Fernandez’s transfer window saga
• 39:26 – Welbeck and Henderson: Banter signings or masterstrokes?

---

Conclusion: Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is deeply analytical yet accessible, infused with dry wit and both skepticism and cautious optimism. The panel is candid about the magnitude of Chelsea’s challenges: a need for stability, patience, better squad balance, and genuine alignment between manager and board. While past mistakes loom large—both on and off the field—the arrival of Xabi Alonso and a blended approach to youth and experience represent a potential new beginning. Whether Chelsea’s transfer U-turn pays off remains to be seen, but as Tim Spears notes, with the squad’s talent, "In theory, it should be relatively straightforward for [Alonso] to improve results" (41:09).

The big question: Will Chelsea let Alonso's plans breathe, or will they get sucked back into their cycle of impatience?

---

Transcript

[Advertiser]

Guessing is for game shows, not your business. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR finance and IT with AI grounded in your context to get work done and done right.

[Discover Card Advertiser]

It's a new workday with the Discover Cash Back card. It's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter. Like grocery stores, on gas and at restaurants. It pays to discover terms apply. See discover.com 5 for details.

[Advertiser]

This summer JBL is on a mission to help you tune into what you love, audiobooks, podcasts and everything in between with JBL's live headphones. These headphones are perfect because of their high res sound making your fave stories and voices come alive with so much detail. Exactly the way they were made to be heard. Plus they have 80 hours hours of battery life so you can binge without pressing pause all summer long. Find your [e-mail].

[Adam Leventhal]

The Athletic FC hi there and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Adam Leventhal. Now, after years of focusing on recruiting young talent, Chelsea have brought in two veterans in, Danny Welbeck and Jordan Henderson. So why has that strategy shifted and how much will it help the new boss, Xabi Alonso? Well, alongside me from the Athletic, it is great to see. Tim Spears, how are you?

[Tim Spears]

Great, thanks. Adam, how are you?

[Adam Leventhal]

Very good. Back from the World cup, loving life, ready for the new season.

[Tim Spears]

Slight sort of post World cup come down, but excited about what's ahead and

[Adam Leventhal]

what is on Liam Tharm's head. That is what people are saying. It's a new hairstyle for a new season. How are you Liam?

[Liam Tharm]

I'm well, thank you.

[Quince Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Liam Tharm]

You good?

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, very good, very good. Could you want to give us a little bit of background to the new trim?

[Liam Tharm]

I've done it past couple summers.

[Adam Leventhal]

Oh, it's a regular thing.

[Liam Tharm]

I guess it's becoming that.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah.

[Liam Tharm]

Just had some friends that said it looks good, go for it again. So I thought why not?

[Tim Spears]

We didn't spend enough time with Liam last summer. Clearly this is brand new but apparently it's not modeled on Romania's 1998 World cup squad.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah.

[Tim Spears]

As we showed our age by sort of speculating.

[Adam Leventhal]

Good little reference that one for the kids. Yeah, quite. Let's concentrate on Chelsea and we're going to be joined by the Athletics Chelsea correspondent Simon Johnson a little bit later on who's going to join us from the club's pre season tour in Hong Kong. So Chelsea finished 10th last season, failed to qualify for Europe with both the youngest average age squad and the youngest average age starting 11 in the Premier League. Now they've brought in Danny Welbeck and Jordan Henderson. So things are shifting and we're going to get stuck into that. Are you surprised that there's been such a significant tweak to Bluco's strategy or are we reading too much into it?

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, surprised Obviously they went the complete opposite way last year and have done for some time. You know, investing in youth on very long term contracts, investing in a lot of young players. You know, Bowley clear like a clearly very ambitious, very rich. But they've got an awful lot wrong in the last few years. You know, they've overpaid on a lot of deals, they've made some very unusual sign ins, they've handed out these sort of inexorably long contracts, they've overloaded in some positions and been light in others and not strengthen when they should have made some bizarre managerial appointments as well. You have to say, you know, you can point to a couple of minor successes in the Conference League and the Club World cup which you know, was sort of a postseason trophy, but for the money they've spent and the club that they inherited, I one that just won the Champions League, let's not forget, it's been an absolute disaster. You know, they assembled the most expensive squad in the history of the sport and last season finished 10th, you know, below Brenford, Brighton, Bournemouth.

[Simon Johnson]

So that's.

[Tim Spears]

I think it's important just to set the context of where they're at, you know, go how they ended last season and why they now feel the need to make sort of, you know, drastic decisions in the other. In the other way. The other direction. Yeah, because they need extreme things happen to happen to change those fortunes. Hiring Chabby Alonso feels like a really good start and now this continues that by putting right one of the wrongs from last season.

[Adam Leventhal]

Well, the three clubs that finished above them that you mentioned, Brentford, Brighton, Bournemouth, all three really well run clubs with a, with a clear identity. Liam, obviously the squad that Chelsea have had, you know, due to what we mentioned about youngest squad, youngest starting 11 etc. Etc. Needed some experience. So bringing in two guys like Welbeck and Henderson, it just, that's just makes sense, doesn't it?

[Liam Tharm]

Kind of. But an interesting point that was being discussed in the office earlier with Conor o', Neill, one of our data writers, was in bringing in those players how much they also actually need to play in order to have that kind of on field experience. It's not just kind of the in the dressing room, on the training ground, how they can benefit young players, but actually kind of the on pitch leadership. When you look at Chelsea's disciplinary record or kind of, you know, points drop from winning positions, how did that you go about impacting the game. And now if you've then got Danny Welbeck starting 25, 30 games in a season, same for Jordan Henderson. I know he kind of phased out a bit towards his time at the end of Brenford, but if they're there playing regularly, is that then becoming a problem in terms of minutes for those young players that you spent kind of big sums on? I think you need to work out quite clearly what the role is, what the hierarchy is. Otherwise you just end up in a bit of a state of overcorrections. I think of saying, okay, we've brought so young, now we have to buy really, really older players and experienced players that you don't want to make the same mistake. Just at the other end of kind

[Adam Leventhal]

of that continuum, I suppose with Jordan Henderson, though, as we saw with England, he doesn't necessarily have to be on the pitch to have influence or that was what we were sold.

[Liam Tharm]

Yeah. I think it's a different role though, right? You're talking kind of a month for a major tournament where part of the reason you need that is because you don't have a group of players that spend all kind of season together. You're trying to basically manufacture that club environment at international level. Okay. If there's any club that kind of is near to an international team for kind of how quickly players are being churned out, it probably is Chelsea. So that's probably the closest example to it. But I think more than anything, what they need and what these players they're trying to do is kind of get that cohesion, develop those relationships, something that they haven't had and haven't really been able to have because they've had so many players that they've been trying to rotate. Players have been signing and selling. They seem to be signing some of the same kind of players that they're selling at the same time. And you go, whoa, kind of. This is a lot going on here, a lot of moving pieces. I mean, we're going back to Graham Potter now, but that's one of the things that he mentioned when he was coach, which feels like way longer ago than actually was now. But, you know, that's been a Kind of a long standing problem for them

[Adam Leventhal]

regularly bottom of the fair play table as well. And Liam Racinha, who I don't know if you were talking about when you were saying some bizarre appointments. Did you include Liam racing in your bazaar? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Any others that really stuck out when you were thinking of bizarre?

[Tim Spears]

They've all been strange.

[Adam Leventhal]

Oh, all strange.

[Liam Tharm]

Is that not the ironic point though? If they've all been. If you get them all kind of wrong, it's kind of the way they lurch from going, okay, bring in the guy who was the coach at the sister club. A young upcoming manager to fit a young upcoming squad. Then sack him before. I mean, he didn't get a transfer window, did he? I know some of the results were bad, but you kind of get rid of him so quickly and then go, let's go and get in a top, top level coach that it's kind of these real violent swings in approach.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yes. Layoff Rosenior is the message from. From Liam. It wasn't his fault. And he was also talking about emotional maturity, which I suppose that does come with having a young squad. So when you do inject that experience then hopefully the byproduct will be a little bit more of a, you know, more level heads on the field and that that will help the disciplinary issues.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, I think there are kind of a few facets to sort of these signings and bringing in experience and older players. Obviously discipline's got to be part of it. Yeah. Eight red cards last season, which would double more than any other team. I think they had something like 90 yellows which was second behind only spurs. And there's obviously indiscipline perhaps off the field. We've seen that hinted at with Mark Cucurea's interview with Enzo Fernandez kind of flirting with other clubs and also game management. They can be very emotional. They don't know how, they didn't know how to control a game. You know, they didn't react well to adversity. So all those reasons are good ones to bring in sort of experience. I guess what's unusual about Henderson and Welbeck is that they're at the end of their careers, you know, as Liam sort of touched on. I mean, what. Henderson is 36, Welbeck's 35. So will they have the same level of influence they had at Brighton and Brentford? Perhaps more impressionable dressing rooms than maybe Chelsea's where they were sort of playing every week? Yeah, Henderson made 22 starts last season and 10 off the bench. He's not making that many for. For. For Chelsea and Welbeck, you'd imagine, is sort of predominantly a bench option. They're not in Europe this season, so less room for rotation. So. Yeah, it's an unusual notion. You know, can you just. Can you just buy respect? You know, can these. Oh, you're the. You're the guys that are going to sort out and manage the dressing room. Normally, that happens sort of naturally from within as players grow and become more experienced, you know, in their sort of mid, mid to late twenties and whatever, and prove themselves. Whereas these guys, they have, like, vibe signings basically, you know, come in and run the dressroom. It's an unusual concept. It does. It does kind of speak to the fact that they've gone completely the other way from their previous model.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, it's an interesting point, isn't it, about, you know, if you do bring in experienced players when you've already got established international players in there, yes, they may well be young, but they will also consider themselves as leaders. You know, Caius, Enzo Fernandez. There is the possibility that you do actually rub people up the wrong way by saying, we need to bring in these old dudes to sort you out.

[Liam Tharm]

Yeah, I think so. And I think, and I don't mean

[Adam Leventhal]

this as old dudes, that's maybe a bit harsh. They are.

[Liam Tharm]

Well, they are older guys. Older in the footballing sense. And I think also the risk with this is, I think something Tottenham have had too. When you bring in so many young players, there's also kind of the physical jump that has to be. Be made right in terms of the robustness, the demands that going for me, the other leagues in Europe, or especially academy football, does a generally a really good job of preparing players, especially technically, for the demands. But the physical demands of the sprinting, the intensity, they're so much greater and you just can't kind of. There's not really a way to coach that, because you're talking about players who are really gifted technically. You can't rush someone through, you know, physical development that can't just be accelerated. I think Chelsea have had that, you know, limbs lap was a classic one. Kind of injuries problems that players pick up because you're trying to get them to do things that maybe it needs to be not like, phased in, but build up over a period of time that you look at someone like world back now, actually, who seemingly benefited from injuries throughout his 20s because he wasn't so overworked by the time, you know, he's got to this. This point in his career. And you compare that to Enzo Fernandez who is playing, you know, kind of four or five thousand minutes a season. That's a lot of football when you factor in kind of club World cup and stuff like that. So it is difficult. And I think part of the approach with the squad building has been, and I mean, this is an observational point, not necessarily critical, is that it's quite American, right, in the way that they would work in American sports with a draft system and where you go, we have to get the best young talent early because by the time someone else gets them and they've given them a long contract and they're being paid loads of money, we then price out that we can't then get them or until later on in their career, that it's kind of a bit more of a race because the players that come out or the athletes that come out of the collegiate system there are really, really good. They're ready to go. And you say the same about quite a lot of the kind of, you know, top level academy players here. Cole Palmer, right, being the prime example, came out of City's academy. They paid a lot of money for him. We were all saying at the time, whoa, that's a lot for kind of an academy guy. None of us are saying that now. We all look kind of quite silly. So I think they are learning from their mistakes in that sense. But you do think, did it really need to come kind of two years or however long down the line to get to this rather than make the mistakes in the first place? Could you have foreseen this happening?

[Adam Leventhal]

I want to ask you about the sort of the Granit Xhaka situation and the comparisons with bringing Jordan Henderson in a minute, but mentioning Cole Palmer, obviously they brought in Morgan Rogers. That's the sort of the buddy system kicking in, keeping a player that has looked a little bit out of sorts. And he spoke really well recently. I thought about, you know, just being a little bit disconnected during the World cup and it must have felt strange for him not to be there. Do you think they know?

[Liam Tharm]

Right.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah. We need to get him right. And if we do, then that is a player that can really elevate us once again. And by bringing in a mate, it helps.

[Tim Spears]

This is an expensive mate.

[Adam Leventhal]

Very expensive.

[Tim Spears]

117 million.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah.

[Simon Johnson]

Yeah.

[Liam Tharm]

Well, fascinating.

[Adam Leventhal]

But he's worth it. Yeah.

[Tim Spears]

I'm sort of fascinated to see how they gel together really, you know, positionally, what is the natural fit for how they both fit in. You know, Morgan Rogers can play sort of across the forward line. But I know he did okay for England on the right during the World cup. But I remember speaking to Villa friends who said he was like a fish out of water on the right wing for them last season. So where does he play? Does he play centrally? Then you get sort of into Enzo Fernandez territory. Does he play on the left where they've still got Pedro Neto and another many other options. So interesting to see where they all kind of fit in. And then there's the added sort of complication, but a good one for Alonso to kind of figure of. Like I said earlier, lack of rotation, lack of European games this season. If they get knocked out early in the, in the cups, then they'll be playing 40 matches this season like Man United last year. So I think Morgan Rodgers is a great signing. But as with many of Xabi Alonso's dilemmas, it's who do you fit in and where? Because if you add up all the players in Chelsea's squad, it's, it's, it's got to be the biggest in the, in the league. You know, they had so many loanes out last year. Just up front they've got Nicholas Jackson, they've still got Liam delap, still got Mark Gay, they've still got Joe Pedro and they still got Danny Welbeck. That's five into one probably. So that's just one. And then how many center they got now? 13, 14

[Liam Tharm]

at the same time.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, I'm only barely exaggerating. So there's an awful lot of work to do to get players out. We've seen so many bomb squads at Chelsea, more than probably any other club in the league. They love a bomb squad, don't they? They love a bomb squad. So yeah, there's, there's, it's great bringing players in, but they definitely need to shift some out as well.

[Adam Leventhal]

We shouldn't be surprised that Xavi Alonso has, has sort of instigated his old man in midfield plan because he did it with Granit Xhaka and it worked at Leverkusen and there was obviously strong links to trying to get Xhaka from Sunderland into Chelsea. So in terms of how that could potentially make the midfield work, how will it, how will it work for them if Henderson's presumably needed to play more to have that influence?

[Liam Tharm]

Yeah, you'd have thought so. I mean the reason he worked really well at Brentford was because he played kind of the, the base of a midfield triangle. Right. Or the, the point of an upside down triangle. You have two number eights in front of him or they'd play kind of a play two eights and Henderson would drop off and they'd have a number 10 in in dams Garden. I mean, functionally his job was to do simple stuff, right? Was to play a lot of sideways passes. That meant they could commit the fullbacks in attack, push Michael Coyote on and could just commit more bodies forward. They could dominate more territory because they had a player there that could just knit kind of passes together. Now Chelsea, for all intents and purposes, don't need that profile as much. You know, there's no reason why you can't have Kaiserda or Fernandez do that or someone like Rhys James either, whether that's rotating and from right back or playing in midfield, you've got technicians there. So you go, okay, I'm not entirely sure what kind of technical problem he's going to solve on the pitch in that sense. And then you've got the balancer saying to Tim's point about, well, how do you structure the attack? Because you've got three or four guys that can play number 10. You've also now got the potential to have Joao Pedro and Danny Welbeck as a front too, which he's done in pre season and would actually probably get the best out of Joao Pedro, who was really good last year when he played with Danny Welbeck at Brighton. A really, really good combination because Welbeck does a lot of running in behind which opens up that space for Joao Pedro who really, I know he's a striker but he likes to come to feet. He wants the ball. He doesn't really want to be kind of channel chasing. So I do think you can't really do both parts of that at once. You either kind of have to build the forward line or the attack around your striker or around the Rodgers de palm with the number 10s and something kind of has to give you, otherwise you can end up with like a, you know, a 415 kind of shape and you then go, well, that team is just going to get completely run over in a, you know, in a league that's as physical, I mean, it's kind of demanding as the Premier League.

[Tim Spears]

There's no easy answer there, basically.

[Simon Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tim Spears]

Granit Jackal would have been a great addition, by the way. I think he would have been sort of a little younger than Welbeck and Henderson would surely have played more and be more influential on the pitch. You know, still performing at a pretty high level. Obvious sort of captain material when Rhys James is inevitably injured. You know, the way Transform Sunderland is exactly what they probably want sort of Henderson Welbeck to maybe do because he transformed not just the team or the squad, but the whole club and the whole city last year with his sort of professionalism, the way he led by example on and off the pitch. I mean, from a neutral point of view, I'm glad it didn't happen. I think it's nice. We all want that Sunderland story to maybe continue a bit longer and be in Europe, etc. They also tried to sign John Stones as well along those sort of similar lines. So yeah, I guess from a Chelsea point of view, Alonso is their star signing of the summer and he's and he's the one that's helping orchestrate all this. The fact that he's a manager and not a head coach as the previous guys have been, suggests that he's having an influential impact on players coming in and playing style. And that's got to be good news for Chelsea because the guys above the head coach position have proved himself incapable of doing it.

[Discover Card Advertiser]

With the Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time. When you earn cash back on everyday purchases, activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter. Like grocery stores, on gas and at restaurants, it pays to discover terms apply. See discover.com 5 for details.

[Advertiser]

Guessing is for game shows, not your business. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR finance and it with AI grounded in your context to get work done and done right. It's a new workday this summer. JBL is on a mission to help you tune into what you love audiobooks, podcasts and everything in between with JBL's live headphones. These headphones are perfect because of their high res sound, making your fave stories and voices come alive with so much detail exactly the way they were made to be heard. Plus they have 80 hours of battery life so you can binge without pressing pause all summer long. Find your [e-mail].

[Adam Leventhal]

Well let's check in with Chelsea out in Hong Kong. Chelsea correspondent Simon Johnson joins us now. Results over the last week against spurs and Juventus haven't been great, but overall, what's the mood like?

[Simon Johnson]

The mood's good. I mean, I think sometimes too much is readied to results. I've covered pre season tours where Chelsea won every game and then started the season horrifically and vice versa. So I think always not just at Chelsea but any club. The main priority pre season is getting fitness, sort of getting the bond of the group together and, and particularly when a new manager comes in and, and, and all the noises I'm hearing without sort of getting overboard because, you know, if Chelsea get off to a bad start, then, then people will instantly be going, always have you, Alonso, you know, is he the real deal or not? But there's definitely a. He's made a big impact. And, and certainly from what I'm led to believe, people aren't sort of looking at their watches or looking at the calendars going, or when, when, when do we get to fly home? It is. It's very much a, a positive feel, feel good factor. Yeah, of course they, they prefer to be winning games, but I, I don't think there's any sort of sense of, of disappointment really. I mean, when you make loads of substitutions in friendlies, inevitably there's going to be a bit of a inconsistency in games and, and it's, it's.

[Adam Leventhal]

We've been getting stuck into the signings of Welbeck and Henderson, as you would expect in the studio, but Chelsea have also signed Morgan Rogers, as we mentioned, Lacroix Palestra as well. Does it feel like there's a clear football plan from Blueco? I don't want to go too far on this because as you said, we don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but it is different to just signing talented prospects, isn't it?

[Simon Johnson]

Yeah, no, I don't really agree with that, that this is the first sort of sign of a plan. I think Chelsea have always had a plan. It's just whether it's good in theory, good in theory and in practice. I've always understood the theory of the plan since January 2023, which has been predominantly signing young players full of potential on long contracts and to build a team that would grow old together and sort of form that bond. Yes. I've been like many from the outside thinking, well, why not just tweak it a little bit and get a few experienced bodies in there? Because that has been one of the main failings. But then you go back to the very first transfer window under this ownership and that's exactly what they did. They bought Raheem Sterling. Finished article for Man City. It didn't work. They bought Kalidou Koulibaly from Napoli. It didn't work. They put. They bought a Bamiang. It didn't work. So you can't sort of, sort of say, oh, they've never tried to go the experience route. Perhaps they were stung so badly by those three in particular. Just, just not working out that they went too far the other direction. But, but for me, in terms of what they're doing now and accentuating the positives, I do understand it. Of course there's going to be question marks over how much Jordan Henderson will play, how much Danny Welbeck will play. Lacroix, I think we know he's going to play a lot. He's, you can't really call him a veteran at 26, although you could argue in blue coat terms that that is quite an old guy to be signing for Chelsea. I actually spoke to Tosin in a mix zone the other day and as he says, we sort of joked, sort of going, you're not going to be the old guy anymore. How's it feel? And he kind of went, yeah, I'm so relieved because. And he kind of just sort of threw how ridiculous it was that he was being called uncle in the group at the age of 26, as if he was this sort of old timer. And you sort of go, I mean I'm sort of thinking, God, 26, I'd be delighted to be called old and being 26, trust me. But, but yeah, so I, I, I think it's a very interesting window that Chelsea have had transfer wise as always. It depends on results though and, and, and, and how we assess the business they've done. But again, no one could accuse them of not trying. They continue to spend. It's, you know, some fans protest about the lack of spending that their owners do. You certainly can't level that to these guys. They continue to invest heavily.

[Adam Leventhal]

So I'll come back to you in a minute but as you were speaking there, Liam sort of balked when you said that Chelsea, you know, have had a plan and they know what they're may be doing this time around. Why did you raise your eyebrows so high?

[Liam Tharm]

Well, I think if your get out is that there's always been a plan in theory, but it's not worked in kind of action. And I don't know if you ever really had a plan. Right. You probably had more of a, more of an idea and there are merits to it. There's a lot of other clubs that have done similar stuff, but I think it's pretty part of the plan, right, is assigning young players. That's your whole thing and then you're going to give players a season 18 months and then they're out the door. I think if you truly want to invest in young players, that additional point I put on Top of that is Chelsea had a really good academy for a really long time, the Premier Academy in England, obviously, when they won the Champions League a few years ago. Now there's that famous photo of the academy graduates all on the pitch together, celebrating with it. You feel like, okay, you spent a lot of money on other people's young players. What about your own young players that could come through and kind of fulfill that? I think if you're going to be so young, young player focused, you need a bit more patience, like we mentioned, with kind of Brentford, Bournemouth, Brighton. I think clubs that are probably a bit better at not just chucking someone out once they've had about six months or a year, and maybe they can't because they don't quite have the funds that Chelsea do, right, where they can say, well, we'll drop another £30 million on a. On a talented youngster. I think it's a bit of a different approach.

[Adam Leventhal]

Si. Let me just come back to you in terms of stories off the pitch. We finally had a punishment for Chelsea for the historical financial irregularities that's been settled now. 74 FA charges related to incidents between 2011 and 18 under the previous owner, Roman Abramovich, and they got a 10 million pound fine for that, which is basically what Enzo Fernandez probably gets in, I don't know, half an hour or so. Chelsea, I suppose they can now move on, but many of the fans outside of the club will think that they've got off pretty lightly.

[Simon Johnson]

Well, I'm sure they do, yes. I'm sure outside of Chelsea there will be sort of a what about Erie going on. There have obviously been points deductions for PSR breaches and things like that. And those clubs in particular will be looking and going, well, hang on, there were 74 charges here from the FA. Plus, of course, don't forget UEFA and the Premier League have also only fined Chelsea. But Chelsea will argue differently. They will say, look, you know, we are a different case, we are an exception, that unlike perhaps other situations, they actually, they actually told on themselves. There was no governing bodies investigating Chelsea and found wrongdoing. It was Chelsea that found it themselves. Of course, the current ownership, in the process of buying the club four years ago, spotted irregularities and they could have kept quiet. They could have sort of thought, right, let's, let's sort of keep this to ourselves and hope, hope no one ever finds out. Instead, they actually flagged it and then were very, very cooperative, donating all the information whenever it was asked of them. So they would argue, and this is not me sort of saying it's justifiable in terms of punishment. But Chelsea will argue that by doing the right thing, it's paid off. That, that what message would it send if after doing all of that telling on themselves and being fully cooperative, they then got an absolutely massive punishment? And also, of course, don't forget these, these, these owners will say, well, that, that wasn't us, that was those guys over there. And this is a different Chelsea. So why punish us when the people that actually did the wrongdoing are not here anymore? But of course, those outside of Chelsea would go, yeah, but you still stand to benefit, you have benefited from Chelsea sort of the success that these players that were signed with the rule breaches regarding agents and third parties that they got to buy a club that has been very successful with those players that were signed. So you could argue that they've still ended up benefiting from that situation. But for Chelsea, I think, look, this has been hanging over their heads for four years and now it's done. So they'll be absolutely delighted that they can move on. They've had three fines from the three governing bodies and I'm sure they'll be sort of thinking, yeah, they've handled it as well as they could under the circumstances.

[Adam Leventhal]

What did you make of the punishment, Tim?

[Tim Spears]

I mean, they've admitted to making tens and tens of millions of pounds of payments, of secret payments basically, to unregistered agents, third parties over a prolonged period of time. It's not just a one transfer window. A couple of weeks is over.

[Adam Leventhal]

Like, wasn't them though, was it? Wasn't them. And that's what they had. That's what they had in their back pocket. It wasn't them.

[Tim Spears]

Yes, the shaggy defense, isn't it? Basically, I mean, I don't know, you just saw points, deductions mooted and transfer, transfer bans mooted. Wouldn't be the first time for Chelsea. The fact that they've self reported doesn't make any difference to me because they're reporting the previous owner. Essentially. It's all Roman Abramovich's fault. You know, the, the bad Russian guy, it's all his fault. It's not ours. So, you know, pleading guilty to a crime in serious life, in serious life, in real life, or handing yourself in, you know, doesn't. Doesn't mean you don't get jail time.

[Adam Leventhal]

Funnily enough. I was in court this morning. No, I was in court this morning.

[Liam Tharm]

What are you done now?

[Adam Leventhal]

Covering something. Covering something. And, you know, you do get A reduction in sentence. If you do fess up early, it can lead to, you know, reduction in terms of your sentence.

[Tim Spears]

A £10 million fine, Adam, is chump change. And you mentioned Jad Pedro. And it's funny enough, I did do the maths on this earlier. Of his reported £200,000 a week wage. That's a year of one employee's salary. So it's not a lot of money. It's financial and accounting mismanagement over a prolonged period of time. And it should have, should have had a far more serious punishment. Look at what Crystal palace got. I know. This is completely something different. Missing a couple of emails he got chucked out of a whole competition. Yeah, that's not relative, is it?

[Adam Leventhal]

What do you think? I mean, can we read anything into this when we're still waiting for the 115Manchester City case, which is, you know, is just still rambling on?

[Tim Spears]

Well, the things that they're accused of are far more serious, so. But, you know, far more intelligent, including people than me.

[Adam Leventhal]

They haven't got that defense, have they?

[Tim Spears]

No, they haven't got that defense.

[Adam Leventhal]

I've got the defense. It was them.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, yeah. So let's.

[Adam Leventhal]

So, yeah, but, but, so maybe.

[Liam Tharm]

But people were saying the same point though, right then, that still the football club should be punished. Whether or not it's. It's this ownership having to take on the punishment of a previous ownership that otherwise Chelsea Football Club still existed then, it still exists now. I mean, there's also the weird quirk where they were given a suspended six point deduction that was then set aside on appeal. I think that's really jarring if you've given someone a punishment and then what's changed when they suddenly appeal it to go, okay, we're going to kind of get rid of that. I think that is if they weren't given that in the first place. And you said, look, we're giving them this fine and you stick with it, so be it. But what can presumably come up in an appeal that suddenly makes that punishment no longer, you know, viable? I don't know, but I think that will jar foreign.

[Quince Advertiser]

To hit reset before the autumn rush begins. And honestly, I can't think of a better place to start than my closet. And that's why I love shopping at Quint's. Quince is all about fewer, better pieces. Their clothes are made with premium materials, built to last and designed to become the ones you reach for day after day. And Quint specialises in everyday staples that work harder, like that old ultra strong organic cotton tees and premium Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They're versatile, timeless and transition seamlessly from a casual workday to a dinner out. I absolutely love their organic cotton long sleeve peak Polo in heather gray. It's a classic polo, but it's got just the right amount of spandex in the weave so it stretches just so and looks good wash after wash. For me it's a work from home staple and it's great for a night out too. So upgrade your f every day. Go to quince.com athleticfc for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. And the great news is Quince is now available in Canada and the UK too. So upgrade your everyday Download the Quints app for app exclusive offers or go to quints.com athleticfc get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. And the good news is Quint is now available in Canada and the UK too. That's quince.com. Athletic fc quint.com athletic fc.

[Advertiser]

Guessing is for game shows, not your business. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR finance and it with AI grounded in your context to get work done and done right.

[Discover Card Advertiser]

It's a new workday with the Discover Cash Back card. It's payback time. When you earn cash back on everyday purchases, activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter. Like grocery stores, on gas and at restaurants. It pays to Discover terms apply. See discover.com 5 for details.

[Adam Leventhal]

One other issue, Simon off the field that we need to talk about, which now does have an impact on the field is Mykhailo Mudryk is back in the mix it seems, after his two years out after the the doping case. Do you think that Xavi Alonso is minded to to get him back in the mix?

[Simon Johnson]

Well, we have asked this question out on tour because I I it's been a crazy whirlwind few days not just for me on tour, not not knowing what day it is, but for Mikhail and Mudryk it is it has been an absolutely extraordinary story that only broke a few days ago that that that the FA and and World Anti Doping Agency case had been resolved and he was free to join up with Chelsea again. And bear in mind this is a guy that's been training on his own for pretty much sort of 20 months and suddenly he's on a plane, arrives in Hong Kong on Monday, trains on Tuesday to amazing Reception from the fans that turned up to pay to watch Chelsea train. And then he gets on late on against Juventus. A lovely touch from Nicholas Jackson, by the way, who in conversation with Xavier Alonso before the game agreed that he would be the one, the sacrificial lamb as it were, to be the substitute that he subbed. Normally sort of an absolute insult to a professional, but Nicholas Jackson was, was happy to do that. So Mudrick would be able to come on for the last sort of eight minutes or so. He will now want to move on. Will Chelsea sort of keep him? I, I think they're sort of stressing that it's very early days and understandably so. Look, the guy hasn't been around a training ground for, as I said, for all this time. He's not been allowed to. They're already being flooded with inquiries though, which is incredible like that. It shows what a talent people think that Mudryk still is despite this long layoff. There isn't really much room in that squad for Mudryk to get a lot of minutes at Chelsea. There's quite a competition for places in there. So if you were to ask me now what do I see is happening, what will happen by the end of the win? I think he's going to be loaned out and a chance for him to. And they'll pick the right club where he has to play on a regular basis. Otherwise there's no point. He doesn't want to have more time just watching football. So yes, I think alone where he knows he's going to play and I think it will be the next step on his road to getting his career back on track.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, it's going to be fascinating to see what happens with him also and we've mentioned him a few times already what's going to happen with Enzo Fernandez? Because you reported on the Athletic that Moises Caicedo has urged him to stay at the club. I think there'll be many Englishmen that will not be of that opinion and will want him out of Chelsea as soon as possible and not necessarily playing in England after his performances for Argentina. What is the latest on his situation?

[Simon Johnson]

Yeah, so Casado did the pre match press conference and knowing that one, that Casado is to sign a new deal, he's not the only senior player to do that and of course he, he loves playing with Fernandez. Those two have formed quite a partnership. So I thought it was appropriate for me to ask Moises sort of say, look, you know, you obviously love Enzo, do you want him to stay? There's all this talk for months now about Fernandez and Real Madrid valued at £120 million by the club. I don't think the club have had any offers. Real Madrid, of course, has been the. The. The sort of. The potential destination that's been mooted without actual. Any hard evidence of Real Madrid wanting that to happen. And. And quite recently they put out a statement, of course, saying they've got no intention of signing Enzo Fernandez. As things stand, I think Chelsea are preparing for him to come back into training. He'll resume training at Cobham next week. It'll be interesting to see how Fernandez walks back, what his attitude is like. All the talk about he's not signed a contract yet or got the contract that he feels he deserves. He is a World cup winner, he is one of the best midfielders in the game. What do I see happening right now? I would say that he's going to remain a Chelsea player, but there's still plenty of time left in the window for that to change.

[Adam Leventhal]

Indeed there is. Scythe. Thank you very much indeed. A lot more coverage from Simon on Chelsea's tour and in the build up to the start of the season. Quick one from you, Tim, on Enzo Fernandez. Obviously it maybe is just a little bit pantomime after his performances during the World cup and in particular against England as well. How do you think he'll reintegrate if he does stay at Chelsea?

[Tim Spears]

Within. Within the rest of the squad, you mean? How will the players take to him?

[Simon Johnson]

Yeah.

[Adam Leventhal]

And also then opposition fans.

[Tim Spears]

Oh, I don't think. I don't think he's got a patch on. On the guy. They've just signed his teammate from Argentina, Barco.

[Adam Leventhal]

Valentin Barco. Yeah. If you're not familiar with him, go and tell us who slapped him.

[Tim Spears]

Jude Bellingham slapped him with good reason. So he's the one who, after Enzo Fernandez scored, Barco, you may have seen on social media, you can only see it from a couple of angles. Darts onto the pitch and he's like celebrating all the England players faces. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. I've got to be AI. But no, it's true. Didn't even get on the pitch. I think he made one substitute appearance during the whole World cup. And yes, so Jude Bellingham, sort of Fawlty Towers style, slaps him on the back of the head again for the kids.

[Quince Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Tim Spears]

Look it up after full time. So, yeah, but he's known for this Barker. He's one of the most notorious incidents of his career was in a Copa Libertadore semi final when he stood on the ball with both feet, which enraged a nation. So he's got it in him. So I think Enzo Fernando's got. Enzo Fernandez has got nothing on him, to be honest.

[Adam Leventhal]

Oh, fine. Okay, so all will be well for Enzo Fernandez. Just point at Barker because he'll be up to something in general terms. Then let's just a final point from both of you and we, you know, obviously started with the discussion on Welbeck and Henderson. Is there a danger that if things don't quite work it becomes a bit of, you know, a pair of banter signings almost that people can, you know, batter Chelsea with? Or do you think that it is more likely to work because it's under Xavi Alonso and he's a cool, calm head and he'll make all of this work?

[Liam Tharm]

I think Chelsea have been a bit too close to the banter thing for a while though. Is the problem that you can look at their. Even like their league finishes going back the past few years, they've gone from 12 to 6 to 4th to 10th. It's kind of been having a squad that's been together for a while, okay, A coach that's worked for a bit, then it's gone wrong and they've kind of sacked it all off. They've sold players, got rid of players, brought new players in, changed the coach. I honestly think they just need some kind of patience. I mean, you look at the, the current kind of big six clubs or the top six kind of area, there's been a lot of turnover. They're not the only club now that are in this position in terms of having a new coach or kind of overhauling the squad that I think, okay, there might then therefore be a temptation to say let's go now, but potential for a league title, kind of a top two, top three finishes on. But you can say, look, we actually might be at a similar kind of level to say a Liverpool or a Manchester United. Obviously spurs have been way down the table for a couple of years now. It's only kind of really Arsenal that I think people are looking at going. We know with certainty what we think we'll get from them next season. So I think Chelsea more than ever, if they are going to invest time and resources, should probably just hold things together for a year or two and see where that gets them rather than kind of going through this kind of washing machine type approach.

[Adam Leventhal]

Leicester finished 14th the year before they won the title. Chelsea could do that. They could do it with an uplift.

[Tim Spears]

What are you saying that for?

[Simon Johnson]

I don't know.

[Tim Spears]

Leicester had a bit of momentum. They won seven of the previous nine the previous season with most of the same squad.

[Adam Leventhal]

Chelsea got a new gaffer.

[Tim Spears]

Yeah.

[Adam Leventhal]

New players. They've spent 117 million pounds on a new player. They've got a couple of experienced heads. They've been there, they've done it. Why not?

[Liam Tharm]

Or was that the former ownership that had been there and done it?

[Tim Spears]

I know.

[Liam Tharm]

You can't have it both ways, can you?

[Adam Leventhal]

That's true.

[Tim Spears]

It's fine for you to put that out. I hope we clip that up just as a clip. Yeah, yeah, that's it. No context.

[Adam Leventhal]

No context. Yeah.

[Tim Spears]

Look, they've hired a very good manager. Like I said, he's the sort of trump card here. In theory. It should be relatively straightforward for him to improve results. Right. No European distractions. The team they've got is ridiculous. The talent they've got is unbelievable. The key for Chelsea is going to be alignment between the manager and those above them and creating a team in his image and what, you know, look at the work he did at Leverkusen. He's clearly got it in him. But they need to be streamlined. If you look at the attacking players they've got purely looking at attackers. Okay. Just going to run them through them very quickly because I think it's worth it. J. Pedro. Morgan Rogers, Cole Palmer, Pedro Neto Estevao, Jamie Gittins, Giovanni Quenda, Nicholas Jackson, Liam De Lapp, Mark Gay, Danny Welbeck and now Mikhailo Mudrick. That's 12 attackers. You know, you can add Enzo Fernandez in just behind as well.

[Adam Leventhal]

That's.

[Tim Spears]

That's a serious, serious amount of. Of. Well, 13.

[Liam Tharm]

You're missing Emmanuel Omega, another striker.

[Tim Spears]

That guy. I'm always thinking about him as well. So, yeah, the. The whole club needs sorting out. It's not going to happen in one summer. But as long as Alonso is the one, you know, having a big influence on those above him, then I think, then, yeah, sure, they can thrive at some point.

[Adam Leventhal]

Thank you very much indeed. Have you enjoyed that?

[Tim Spears]

Yeah, it's been good, yeah. I feel ready for the season now.

[Adam Leventhal]

Oh, good. Brilliant. And Liam, thank you very much indeed. Thank you. You've looked wonderful. Thanks. Thanks very much for listening. Watching on YouTube as well. Don't forget to subscribe and we will be back with you next.

[Discover Card Advertiser]

With the Discover Cash Back card. It's payback time. When you earn cash back on everyday purchases, activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter. Like grocery stores, on gas and at restaurants, it pays to discover. Terms apply. See discover.com 5 for details.

[Advertiser]

This summer, JBL is on a mission to help you tune into what you love audiobooks, podcasts, and everything in between with JBL's live headphones. These headphones are perfect because of their high res sound, making your fave stories and voices come alive with so much detail exactly the way they were made to be heard. Plus, they have 80 hours of battery life so you can binge without pressing pause all summer long. Find your [e-mail] hello, this is Catherine

[Liam Tharm]

from the Tennis Podcast.

[Simon Johnson]

Now AI was supposed to take over

[Liam Tharm]

the parts of the job you hate. Turns out it made your job even harder.

[Simon Johnson]

Instead of doing the work it gave you, homework, ServiceNow's AI specialists get work done from start to finish.

[Liam Tharm]

Cases get resolved.

[Simon Johnson]

Loops get closed. No extra work for you. With ServiceNow, you can do the parts of the job you're best at and delegate the rest. To put AI to work for people, visit ServiceNow.com.