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- [00:00]
Oli
Thy ticket, Lady Jennifer of Coolidge.
- [00:03]
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Tim Spears
With the times.
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- [01:38]
Matt Davis Adams
The Athletic FC welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Matt Davis. Adams. England have extended Thomas Tuchel's contract beyond the 2026 World Cup. So why has this happened now? And with sacking season in full flow, how does this impact the wider manageri? Joining me today, I have Tim Spears. You okay, Tim?
- [02:05]
Tim Spears
Hey, mate. You okay?
- [02:06]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, good, thank you. Oli K's back with us as well. How you doing, Ollie?
- [02:09]
Oli
Very good, thank you. Very good.
- [02:11]
Matt Davis Adams
Excellent. Right then, Thomas Tuchel's contract, originally set to expire after the 2026 World Cup. Tim, you've been covering this for the athletic world. The details of the extension and why have England made this decision now?
- [02:25]
Tim Spears
Feels like a pretty sort of straight extension to 2028. Yeah. Covering the. The home Euros. Yeah. This. The sort of. The extra details of it haven't really sort of come out yet. If there are ones to be found, I'm sure there will be like maybe a break clause, for example, after the World cup, which fac. Mark Bullingham wouldn't sort of go into that yesterday. I Suspect this is probably something that they maybe semi agreed to when he joined that, you know, we'll say it's 18 months because I'm not sure if I'm going to like it. I think would be Tuchel's sort of basic sort of look at it because he obviously been only in club management exclusively before, wasn't sure if he would take to international management. This 18 month original contract is pretty unusual for England. You know, they always tend to give long deals when they hire a manager. They probably wouldn't have been too keen on the 18 months. So I think they've probably come to some kind of agreement where, look, if it's going well, we'll agree to sit down before the World cup and extend it. But yeah, if you look at the way the FA have done things, you know, well, forever really. It's always been at least sort of four years that the new managers get when they come in. Apart from Sam Allardyce who only got two. Maybe they saw something come in. But yeah, it seems like it was probably Tuchel who insisted on that 18 month thing initially because he wasn't sure if he would take to the lack of day and day involvement that of course you get from club management. So I think, I think it adds a layer of stability and ends a bit of speculation that inevitably would have happened over the summer.
- [03:51]
Matt Davis Adams
Interesting timing, Oli, isn't it? I mean we're four months away from the World cup, we're over a month away from England's next game. They've got this pair of friendlies against Uruguay and Japan. Why do you think it's been announced now?
- [04:04]
Oli
They're being proactive. They felt that they didn't want to sort of wait for it to get nearer and wait for any to become a pressurized situation. It's fairly sensible from that point of view. It does, it does remove that question mark and that doubt about what happens after the tournament. But I've always felt that the, the question mark about really when you look at international football, a lot of coaches leave after tournaments anyway. There isn't really a culture of long term contracts in international football. Most coaches are just working to the next tournament and then they get judged after it and that's been the norm. But for whatever reason there seems to be this great anxiety about that situation amongst the English media and with the English FA as well. So they've eliminate, eliminated that situation with I'm sure maintaining some kind of break clause. That meant that if there was a desperation on either or both sides to get to terminate the agreement after the World Cup. They still could, but there is still.
- [05:04]
Matt Davis Adams
An element of risk. Right, Tim? Specifically, if the World cup goes badly, we've got the Fabio Capello precedent and we breeze through qualifying ala Tuchel for the 2010 World cup and then stank out the tournament.
- [05:17]
Tim Spears
Yes, a Capello when he came in, I think he was given a four and a half year deal which covered the 2010 World cup and the 2012 Euros. But on the eve of the 2010 World Cup, I think in June they sort of changed his contract to remove a break clause due to coming after that World Cup. So similar to sort of what we've got here with Tuchel, I guess that layer of sort of instability was removed on the eve of the tournament. It was really interesting. Gareth Southgate said on the High Performance podcast a couple of months ago that he was offered a new contract himself before Euro 2024 and obviously of course he left after the tournament, but he didn't want to sign one. And he had that Capello incident in mind when he didn't sign it. He basically said that he thought that Capello signing a new deal on the eve of the World cup added like a layer of pressure. He said, I don't think signing a new contract before the tournament would be a good idea, Southgate said, because I'd seen Fabio Capello do that years earlier and it created tension. Why is he getting a new contract before the tournament? It should be after it increased the pressure on the team. It's a really interesting thought. I'm not sure that's quite as relevant here. I don't think that Tuchel signing a two year extension necessarily adds a lot of pressure to this particular World cup for this particular group of players. Probably because of the work that Southgate has done. You know, he's changed the game for England in terms of getting them to the latter stages of. Of three tournaments being very close to winning one or two. You know, Capello zero was a different time. England were sort of quarterfinal merchants and serial underachievers. Whereas Southgate has flipped that on its head a little bit. So I think that's probably, probably a little bit less relevant now.
- [07:05]
Oli
I was reporting on England at that World cup in South Africa and was sort of caught up in that story on the eve of the tournament where he was, he was actually sort of being very strongly linked with Inter Milan or Inter after Jose Mourinho had left for Real Madrid and there was a sudden sense of panic and it was seen as very sort of strong management by the FA to just nip this in the bud because Capello's stock was really, really high as England manager at the time, going to the tournament. He'd had a brilliant start, really, as England manager. What happened was I disagreed slightly with Gareth Southgate. I don't think it did create pressure on Capello or on the situation. I think the pressure came entirely from a terrible World cup campaign. There were a number of other reasons for that. But it meant that after the tournament in, England got battered by Germany in Bloemfontein in the last 16, and having stuck the place out really for the four games. And I think instinctively everybody thought, well, Capello's time is up. But they were stuck with this contract that they didn't want. And I don't think it is a particularly similar situation with Tuchel, as Tim says. But you can't really assess and evaluate how well suited somebody is to international management until they've had a tournament. We've seen it with so many managers, not just with England over the years, managers who have come into international football and sailed through qualifying campaigns and then the tournament, the sort of rhythm of a tournament, which is really weird, where everything is just condensed into really a couple of games. You look at this, this particular World Cup, England aren't in the weakest group by any means. Croatia, Ghana, Panama. But really everybody's expecting England to sail into the knockout stages. You're just going to be judged really on two or three knockout games, which are so much more intense than everything that's gone before. Tuchel has never managed international football before, but he's got a really good record in knockout football in particular. So I think there's this hope that everything works out with Tuchel, with England. But we know that Tuchel's stock is fairly high going into the tournament, but we don't know where it will be by the time the tournaments end. It could be Alf Ramsey 66. It could be Fabio Capello 2010. So hard to judge, which is why you generally don't get managers being judged before the tournament.
- [09:38]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah, he probably won't put the added pressure on himself of releasing the Tuchel index as Capello did before the 2010 World cup as well. You think you'd be better advised than that from his perspective, Tim, given the amount of high profile jobs that are going to be up for grabs next season, that makes this slightly more surprising. Or is this just the fact that, as he said, he's enjoying this role? You know, he's 52 years of age now, do you need the stress of managing Manchester United on a day to day basis when you can be involved in international football which obviously brings its own pressures but affords you a different lifestyle?
- [10:16]
Tim Spears
Yeah, I mean he's, he, he's clearly enjoying it. I think it solidifies, obviously solidifies just sort of his position, you know, contractually also it doesn't stop him leaving. Let's, let's be honest. Managerial as well. Matt, you'll know better than anyone. I mean, I think I added up yesterday. Nottingham Forest's three managers this season had contracts lasting a combined six and a half years, I think, and they've lasted six months between them. David Moyes wouldn't have left Man United too long ago if he'd seen that his contract. So it doesn't stop him leaving. And yeah, there are a lot of high profile jobs around this summer. Man United being one, Real Madrid being another. There will be more. There could be Liverpool, there could be Man City. You know, the guy and the guy has managed psg, Bayern Munich, Chelsea and England. You know, he is in that league. But in terms of, yeah, as, as Oli says, you know, we don't know, we don't know what position he's going to be in after the World Cup. It all depends how England do you. And a scenario of a sort of an early exit for Tuchel probably comes if one, if England completely tank at the tournament and go out in the group stages or the last 32 or if they win it. In either of those two scenarios you could see him potentially walking away. But the most likely scenario is England get to a quarter final or semi final, have an unlucky exit, play really well. And then there's the promise of a home Euros coming up in 2028, which I think is, is probably a bit of a, you know, allure for Tuchel. He'll be very keen to actually experience a good Wembley atmosphere because we know that he doesn't enjoy, hasn't enjoyed his Wembley experiences too much, but he'll definitely get a good one at the home Euros. But yeah, I think, I think the prospects, if he's seen as he's clearly enjoying it, the prospect of taking England into their home euros in 2028 would be pretty attractive as well, to be honest.
- [11:58]
Matt Davis Adams
I wonder also, Ollie, if if from his position he, he's thinking about these jobs that might come up and Manchester United and Real Madrid, two storied football clubs, two pretty combustible ones as well. And you think about the way that he struggled to Manage up at psg, at Chelsea and at Bayern Munich. And maybe he thinks, actually, I don't need this kind of hassle from people above me on a day to day basis when I can have a more gentle relationship with the FA and I don't have them breathing down my neck all the time.
- [12:26]
Oli
Yeah, it's really interesting that there are so many high caliber coaches going into this World Cup. You've got two cool a Champions League winner with England. You've got Carlo Ancelotti with Brazil. You've got Julian Nagelsmann with Germany, Mauricio Bochtino with usa. These are guys who I think a decade ago it would have been very hard to imagine people of that kind of caliber managing in international football, where it felt like the move was more towards a sort of association man, a sort of Joachim Loewe, Vergara, Southgate. It's clearly more secure in terms of job prospects. You're not living game to game, week to week. You know, it's probably tournament to tournament. I think. I think part of that is also that Tuchel has not, you know, he's not been inundated with offers since or hadn't been inundated with offers since leaving Bayern Munich. And there's this sort of question of being willing to be almost malleable or compliant and fit into a management setup which you might not particularly rate. I don't think you particularly rated the people that were working above him by the end at Chelsea or at Bayern who disagreed with them. And I don't think he got great vibes off the people at Manchester United when he was talking to them in the summer of 2024. So it may be that managers of that type are suddenly thinking, well, there aren't many clubs that I would really particularly fancy managing. And of the ones that I might fancy managing, not many of them look stable or coherent in terms of, you know, the vision behind it, the patience and the everything else. So, yeah, I think it's. I think maybe international football has sort of come back into fashion for certain managers.
- [14:13]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, let's take a break there. We'll come back and we'll talk more. Too cool.
- [14:23]
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- [14:51]
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- [15:57]
Matt Davis Adams
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair. So with Thomas Tuchel originally expected to leave after this summer's tournament, there was an element of ruthlessness to his decision making, as he was supposed to be there for just one job. How's this going to change the dynamic between him and his players, do you think Collier? Jude Bellingham is the one that automatically springs to mind, but there'll be others too who might be viewing it differently now.
- [16:25]
Oli
Yeah, I mean, the Jude Bellingham situation is fascinating, isn't it? Because England's real standout performance under Tuchel so far 50 win in Belgrade over Serbia in September was achieved without Belling and Belling was left out of that squad and he's subsequently been brought back in again. But there is this question mark about whether Tuchel really fancies him as a player or as a character. And there are others like Trent Alexander Arnold who playing for Real Madrid. I don't think his first season has gone brilliantly by any means, but big player, very well earned, global reputation who is not currently in Tuchel's thoughts or, well, immediate. Well, he's not in the squad currently, hasn't been in the squad for a while, so I think it looked as though Tuchel was sort of approaching the job very much with a kind of I'm not bothered about anything apart from 2026 whereas Southgate, there was always a sense that he always felt he was building to something bigger, which was, you know, this sort of restoration of the national team and the culture and everything else. I think Tuchel's focus has always been entirely on, on, on 2026 and that's why he's brought people like Jordan Henderson back in when people would have said he was bastards. And Kyle Walker's been back in at times. And so I wonder whether he might start thinking a little bit more long term in terms of picking players with 20, 28 in mind. But really I don't think so. I think, I think he will, I, I, I think he will approach it with the view that nothing beyond the World cup matters. If he feels that Bellingham isn't right for the dynamic on the team or in the squad, then Bellingham won't get in. I think he will. But I don't think it's the certainty that many people probably think it should be.
- [18:12]
Matt Davis Adams
And there's always winners and losers, whoever the coach is. Right, Tim? You know, if you're Elliot Anderson or Rhys James or Jordan Henderson, you're probably thinking, great, because they seem to be players that Tuchel really likes.
- [18:24]
Tim Spears
Yeah, it's a good point. Yeah, it's, it's not great for Jude Bellingham. But I do think, you know, if, if you, you've got to put yourself in the scenario of how this changes things for the World Cup, I think, because, you know, if you imagine England have got a huge match coming up on a quarterfinal against Spain or something, and Tuchel's out of contract at the end of the tournament and Man United's job search isn't going very well or, or, or, you know, maybe Liverpool sack slot during the tournament or whatever. And, and suddenly Tuchel's name has been strongly linked to one of those positions and, you know, they're contacting him when he's out there, when he's out there in the England camp, you can just imagine the sort of Ferrari that comes around that, which will be completely unnecessary and unwanted from a sort of an England point of view while they're concentrating on, on winning a World cup for the first time in God knows how long it is now. So I think 60 years.
- [19:19]
Oli
60 years of hurt.
- [19:20]
Matt Davis Adams
Yeah.
- [19:20]
Tim Spears
So, I mean, you know, I don't see it as being anything other than, other than a good thing, to be honest, to have that, that definition, you know, because this has happened before where England managers have been known to be leaving at the end of a tournament. It's happened Quite a few times. If you remember, Bobby Robson was leaving after the 1990 World Cup. Terry Venables was leaving after Euro 96. We all knew that Sven was leaving after 2006. In fact, their successes were known in that. In that. Those scenarios. We knew that Steve McLaren was replacing Sven. We knew that Glenn Hoddle had been announced alongside Terry venables before €96. I think people knew that Graham Taylor would be replacing Bobby Robson. So. But there was, but there was definition in that people knew what was going to happen. Whereas in this scenario, you know, would Tuchel be leaving? Would he not? Is he going to go to a club job? Is he not? I think that wouldn't have been healthy for England during a major tournament. So I think it's. I think it's definitely a good thing.
- [20:20]
Oli
The Bobby Robson mention is fascinating because if you go back to 1990, he was out of contract. He knew he wasn't going to get his contract extended. He'd been the manager for eight years and it had been a real battle, a real struggle. And he, without an offer from the fa, he signed a deal with PSV Eindhoven shortly before the tournament and it was treated like treason, basically. The media, Fleet street at the time, which was in this mad circulation war between the tabloids and they were very, very hostile towards the England manager, really, and the criticism he got, it was almost like off with his head type thing. It was, sack this man now. And in fact, if you think back as well to 2018, Julen Lopetegui signed as Spain manager for Real Madrid to take over after the tournament. And this news crept out at the time and he was sacked sort of on the eve of the tournament. Contrast that with something like Louis Van Hal signing for Manchester United in 2014, and he took the Netherlands into that World cup and did really well. It probably worked out less well for Manchester United because they didn't get him till mid July and he was sort of chasing his tail after that. So I don't think there's ever a sort of this is how it works answer to these things, but I think you can look at contrasting experiences from history and realize that probably securing Tuchel services in the228 is probably no bad thing. There's a risk, but it's probably a fairly low risk.
- [22:01]
Matt Davis Adams
And England fans, Oli, are probably feeling better than Northern Ireland fans as we record on Friday morning. Right. With Michael o' Neill looking like he's going to take the Blackburn job on a joint role until the end of the season. Northern Ireland got a World cup playoff to deal with in that time. England don't want to be in that kind of situation.
- [22:20]
Oli
No. And so Northern Ireland have got Italy in a World cup playoff in March, and if they win that, they play Wales or Bosnia Herzegovina in the playoff finals. So it's a really difficult route to the tournament. But Northern Ireland are still alive in this World cup qualifying campaign. And, yeah, Michael o' Neill is set to take over at Blackburn to the end of the season doing both. And that strikes me as a difficult. A difficult situation. I think Michael o' Neill's popularity in Northern Ireland and amongst those fans is so great that they probably allow him to do almost anything and excuse almost anything. But it doesn't strike me as terribly helpful in terms of Northern Ireland's plans, or indeed in terms of Blackburn's plans to have a manager who's sort of wearing two hats at the same time. He's a very good manager, though, so he's probably. He's probably more capable of wearing two hats than some of Blackburn's managers have been capable of wearing one. So, yeah, it's. It's a fascinating situation. I don't think. I don't think it would work so well if Thomas Tuchel had been offered, for example, Manchester United on a. On an interim basis and was doing that with England. Can you imagine that?
- [23:33]
Matt Davis Adams
Give you lots of copy. At the very least it would. Tim, Back in, In November of last year, we asked the pod, is Tuchel improving England? Have you seen enough from him to. To warrant this extension in terms of results and performances on the pitch?
- [23:48]
Tim Spears
It's really difficult to tell given the quality of opposition England have had. The. I mean, the Senegal match last summer was really as a one off. Watching that match was really concerning. However, June internationals are just, you know, a friendly at home. You know, I remember the. Well, the Hungary match in the Nations League at Molyneux a couple of years ago when they lost 4 nil at home. And then, yeah, the Senegal game was sort of similar to that. I don't read too much into it really. I'm quite indifferent to him, I think. I mean, he's quite sort of difficult to warm to that this whole kind of, you know, get in, do a job and get out. I'm quite up for that from an England fan point of view, to be honest. And I feel like there have been some improvements. Definitely the Serbia and Latvia matches were really impressive, you know, but it's Serbia and Latvia. England haven't lost a non dead Rubber qualifier since 2009, I think. Yeah. So, yeah, there's definitely, there's look, there's definitely good things. Elliot Anderson and. And Madwe's doing really well. And Rhys James connection is really good. The Bellingham stuff worries me, I must say. Like, you know, he's integral to England's success of winning the World cup for me, and with such a big character and big personality as he is, I think he either has to be your main man, your star man, you build it around him, or he's not involved at all. Because Jude Bellingham on the fringes of England doesn't work for me, I think. I think that would create such an issue within the camp. So that's. That's yet to be resolved and I think that's a big part, that's going to be a big part of having them do this summer. But, yeah, I kind of feel like, you know, taking what Southgate did and add in a bit of big tournament naus and knockout football experience and a little bit more sort of positivity than reactivity and a slightly more sort of attacking instinct when required, that's what I want from him, really. There wasn't much wrong with England from sort of 2021 to 2024. You just need a sort of a big level manager who's been there and done it to take England over the line. And we haven't got a clue if he's going to do that yet. You know, we won't know much until June 17th when England's world cup starts.
- [26:00]
Matt Davis Adams
And even then, as you say, Ollie, it might not be until we reach the knockout stages of the World cup that we get a true barometer of. Of how Tuchel's done.
- [26:07]
Oli
Yeah, I think that's. That's important to say. I mean, to be honest, it could be that England kind of stumble or sail through the. The group stage. And I don't think that will define the tournament. I think the tournament will be defined, as ever, by games with small margins in the knockout stages. And it will be a case of whether Tuchel can give England that X factor that makes them win those marginal game games, marginal gains in marginal games, which they were really good at under Southgate. I don't think people should imagine or should get it into their heads that Southgate did a bad job and that it's easy to improve on it. It's not. Doing better than Southgate basically means winning a tournament and it's very difficult when that tournament is a World cup and played in North America in completely different conditions. I would say England will be one of the seven or eight favorites, but it's a long way from saying that Tuchel has to win or must win or whatever. It's a very difficult task.
- [27:08]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, we'll park the England chat there. When we come back, we'll finish off talking about how this news is going to affect the managerial market elsewhere.
- [27:16]
Tim Spears
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [27:20]
Matt Davis Adams
Now, this is the part of the show where, with the help of our partners, Betfair, we show you how you can play in a different league this season. James Mackey's with us. James, we're talking about the managerial market today. And let's start with Spurs. They've now announced Igor Tudor as interim manager. Where's the Betfair sportsbook leaning towards in terms of their next permanent boss?
- [27:42]
James Mackey
Yeah, what a week it's been, Matt. It's just been absolute carnage, hasn't it, for managers and Premier League football teams down at the bottom. But spurs, they're having another torrid season. I can't believe they're down there again. It looks the right decision to get rid of Frank with how the fans were. And currently on the Betfair Sportsbook, the most percentage of bets we've took is on Maurizio Pochettino to return to the club at 4:1. We've had 27% of our bets on that on top. Next Tottenham manager market on Maurizio Pochettino just going down. Robbie Keane, ex player, he's at Ferran Vakos, isn't he? At the moment he's 112 in the market. He took 15% of the bets. Roberto De Zerbi obviously let go from Marseille, has been 14% of the sportsbook bets and he's 6 to 4 in the market. But we have recently just had a new favourite added Marco Rose, even money favorite. We'll have to see how he gets on. Just added into the market. But the really surprising one is Harry Redknapp has come for a bit of money, was 51 now into 21 and has took 5% of the bets on that market. So look, anything can happen. But Pochettino took the Most bets at 4 to 1 at the moment.
- [28:43]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, just for clarity, that is 78 year old Harry Redknapp, last seen in management getting sacked by Birmingham in 2017. I'm here for it. What about Man United then? This Thomas Tuchel new contract that we've been discussing on the pod has changed things slightly, I guess.
- [28:58]
James Mackey
Yeah, it really has because this Market's obviously been up for a lot longer than the Tottenham one. It was up since the the 5th of January when Amren got sacked. Oliver Glassner, he's five to one in the market. He took the most amount of bets in the market with 15%. Obviously he released that he was leaving palace at the end of the season and he could be a natural fit there at Old Trafford, couldn't he? A really interesting one just at 14%. Just 1% lower is Gareth Southgate at 6 to 1. Carrick, though, he's the 1011 favorite. Could he get the job? We saw it with Ole, didn't we, when he was there. Could he take the job? Well, he's 10 to 11 too. Sure you're right. He took 6% of the bets, but he's 25 1. Obviously the news off the back won't be great for backers of that bet. And we mentioned Oli there, 22 to 1. He took 5% of the bets just on Carrick. He was as big as 18 to 1 when the market opened and now 10 to 11. But the money's come down just because of how Man United been playing under him so far.
- [29:48]
Matt Davis Adams
Interesting. And you mentioned Oliver Glasner. As we know, he is leaving Crystal palace at the end of the season. Lots of people put in two and two together. And coming up with Thomas Frank, is he heavily involved as a replacement here?
- [30:00]
James Mackey
Absolutely correct, Matt. Yeah. Thomas Frank has been the big mover in this Marcus interview. Sacked from spurs on Tuesday. Wednesday he was 12:1. Now into 5 to 1, he took 35% of the bets in this market. Roger Smith, 7 to 1, took 22% of the bets with Jose Bordalas at 3 to 1, took 15% of the bets. With the likes of Sean Deitch now in the picture having left Forest at 9 to 1, Steve Cooper 14 to 1 and Roy Hodgson even took 5% of the bets at 50 to 1. These old managers could be coming back, Matt. So look, the big story with this palace market is Frank is 12 to 1 into 5 to 1 and it's where the money's going at the moment.
- [30:34]
Tim Spears
This is the Athletic FC podcast, proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [30:39]
Matt Davis Adams
It has been a week of managerial movements in the Premier League. Yesterday's FC was all about Sean Deitch's departure. Wednesdays focused on Thomas Frank's exit from Spurs. Tuchel probably wasn't in the running for the Forest job, Tim, but he definitely would have been for for spurs and Manchester United. In your mind, was he favorite for either of Those posts in, in the eyes of those clubs at least.
- [31:04]
Tim Spears
I mean, I think he's a level above the spurs job. For me, you know, that would have been a, a huge coup for spurs to get someone like Thomas Tuchel. I think there's far too much that sort of happens that needs to happen with the infrastructure at that club above the manager for the conditions to be right there for anyone to succeed, really. I mean, I wouldn't go, I wouldn't be going anywhere near that job at the moment if you're a top manager, you know, in my opinion, you know, you know, every manager since Pochettino that's gone into spurs has come out with their reputation, having taken a pretty sizable knock. I guess all of them, Mourinho, Conte, Nuno, even the guy that ended their trophy drought came out with his reputation, you know, severely tarnished in postecoglou. So, yeah, Man United's a far more interesting one and slightly more realistic one. You know, similar issues there, to be honest. United in terms of infrastructure and decision making above managerial level, but they have started to get their act together. I think their recruitment's been better. It's a more attractive job. Obviously I would have question marks over whether it's still got the right environment to become, you know, the, the sort of trophy winning machine that they sort of crave been. But there's probably more of a natural fit there with Tuchel for sure. You know, the lure of being the guy to fix Man United is strong, I think, but then equally, you know, so he's been the guy to end England's World cup drive. Yeah.
- [32:31]
Matt Davis Adams
How, how appealing do you think United would be, Ollie? Because we've seen it chew up and spit out some, some other people who've tried to follow Sir Alex Ferguson in the past. You could end up doing more harm than good to your reputation, couldn't you? If you go there at this stage, yeah, you could.
- [32:47]
Oli
I think it's still a very appealing job. I don't think many managers would turn it down. He was in talks with them in the summer of 2024 when they ended up sticking with Erik ten Hag. In the short term they got as far as talking about contracts and things like that and about financial terms and about how things were going to work. It wasn't just a sort of vague that they got down to serious talk which tells you that they were serious about him and he was serious about them. But from what I was told at the time, he ended up more reluctant than them. So whether he would Be much more keen two years on? I don't think so. I don't think he would be signing this contract if he was desperate for the Manchester United job. I don't know what's going to happen with Manchester United. I don't think it does Michael Carrick's chances any harm at all as Tuchel drops out and Carlo Ancelotti. We reported on the Athletic last night, Carlo Ancelotti has basically agreed to extend his contract with Brazil to 2030. Again, I'm sure there are break clauses, but yeah, I think the, the number of managers sort of flooding the market after the World Cup, I think is, is going to be perhaps a little bit smaller than, than was imagined.
- [34:01]
Matt Davis Adams
So United's his characters to lose then by the sounds of it. Tim.
- [34:05]
Tim Spears
I mean, I'm not sure he has much of a solid position just yet. You know, if they'd lost at West Ham the other day, you know, you know what the reaction would have been. I feel like Carrick at the moment is just sort of reversing the nonsense that Amarim was, was doing, basically. I mean, if I was Carrick and had designs on landing that job, which obviously he does, Pochettino would be the one I'd be worried about. From a sort of a Man United point of view. It's harder to see Pochettino extending his contract with the U.S. national team. And there's more of a. There's a good fit there. I think. Pochin has been linked with the United job for quite a long time now, but I think, I still think it's a decent fit in terms of, you know, he works, he's a good project manager. He works well with young players, decent football. He doesn't quite have the history of winning, you know, lots of trophies, but I think United will be looking for a sort of a longer term appointment and Pochettino would tick a lot of boxes. He'd be the one that would be in the frame for that for me, I think.
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Tim Spears
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- [37:35]
Matt Davis Adams
This is the Athletic FC.
- [37:36]
Tim Spears
Podcast proudly sponsored by Betfair.
- [37:40]
Matt Davis Adams
And now earlier Oli mentioned Roberto de Zerbi parted ways with Marseille earlier this week. Timmy he was at one point mentioned in Dispatches as a potential Pep Guardiola replacement. Feels pretty unlikely to me given how combustible de Zerbi can be. Can you, can you see a scenario where he might be at the Etihad next term?
- [38:00]
Tim Spears
I mean, if it was up, if it was up to Pep, then, you know, maybe Pep has spoken in glowing terms about Deserbi in the past. I think he, he called him one of the Premier League's most influential managers in like the last 20 years when he was sort of riding high with Brighton. You know, his strength is obviously his tactical innovation and the way that he gets his teams playing. But I Think we've seen now with the Zerby, this sort of pattern at Brighton and Marseille in terms of a. A very good sort of, you know, uplift in the first year. Very good football. Brighton, I think, finished seventh in their first season, qualify for Europe for the first time under De Zerbi. And then similar impact at Marseille. They finished second last year. Things are going pretty well. And then year two is when the, you know, the wheels sort of fall off a little bit. Brighton obviously dipped down the table. They had Europe obviously as well to contend with, but, you know, disagreements over transfer policy, I think, was sort of the, the straw that brought the camels back there. And then Marseille, second season, dropped down. They're sort of fourth quite a bit off the. Off the pace at the top and disagreements with players this time. So, yeah, he's obviously got a very high ceiling, just not for a very long time. I don't think Man City will be looking for someone who's, you know, going to last longer than a year when they replace Pep, so. No, pretty unlikely, that one.
- [39:14]
Matt Davis Adams
I think Brighton might be looking for a new manager before too long. Maybe he could, he could go back there. Do you think the Premier League's his next landing spot, Ollie?
- [39:23]
Oli
Yes, probably. Probably. I think there will be enough clubs looking for a new manager this summer that, that might think that he's worth, you know, he's worth the sort of turbulence that he perhaps brings with him. I mean, it's. It's one thing saying that somebody's a manager for the short term, but you look across the Premier League and at the moment, managers aren't generally lasting more than 12, 18 months anyway, you know, a lot less than that at Notting Forest. But it's. So why not go for somebody for the short, you know, somebody that you, you feel can improve things over. Over the next 12, 18 months. So, yeah, I, I would think. I would think Premier League or one of the big jobs in Serie A. I mean, I don't think he's. I don't think ultimately his reputation was enhanced by the Marseille spell. I think it. But he's. There's no doubt he's a really, really talented coach. I've spoken to people in football about him and they say, look, as a coach, he's brilliant, but do you want everything that comes with him? And I think probably at some, Some clubs which have less to lose, I think they, that they will feel they're happy to take what, whatever might be perceived to come with them.
- [40:28]
Matt Davis Adams
All right, well, that managerial merry go round is going to keep on spinning and the Athletic is of course the best place to keep up to date with everything that is going to happen between now and the end of the season. That's where we're going to leave things for today though. My thanks to Tim, to Ollie, and to producers Jay and John, but mostly to you for listening. FC will be back on Monday. Have a great weekend. We'll catch up with you again soon.
- [40:51]
Tim Spears
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers were Jay Beale and John.
- [40:55]
Advertiser Voice
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- [40:58]
Matt Davis Adams
The Executive producer is Adie Moorhead.
- [41:00]
Tim Spears
To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic in all the usual places. The Athletic FC podcast is an athletic.
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Tim Spears
It done.
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