Why have Liverpool lost their way?

Summary

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The Athletic FC Podcast

Episode: Why have Liverpool lost their way?

Date: October 6, 2025
Host: Ayo Akimbolere
Featured Guests: David Ornstein, Simon Hughes

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Athletic FC Podcast probes Liverpool's recent struggles after a bright start to the season under Arne Slot, examining a three-game losing streak—including defeats to Crystal Palace, Galatasaray, and Chelsea. Host Ayo Akimbolere is joined by senior reporters David Ornstein and Simon Hughes to dissect the problems, the impact of major transfers, squad turnover, the lingering trauma of Diogo Jota’s death, and whether Liverpool’s project is fundamentally off track or just enduring growing pains.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Liverpool’s Wobble: Context and Current Form

[02:02–03:27]

• Simon Hughes opens by putting the losing run into context: Liverpool’s squad is not in crisis, but instability is clear across all areas—defensive concerns, a rotating midfield, misfiring wide players, and a lack of settled options up front.
  • “Fullbacks on both sides aren’t working at the moment... the number 10 that’s been brought in hasn’t quite settled. And then there’s been changes in the number nine position, chopping and changing.” (Simon Hughes, 02:38)
• The panel agrees problems are solvable but interconnected, making consistent performances elusive.

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2. Squad Overhaul and Transfer Dynamics

[03:27–07:24]

• David Ornstein contextualizes Liverpool’s £450 million spend: when a club overhauls beyond the "five changes" Wenger rule, as Liverpool did, chemistry suffers.
  • “Too many alterations cause an instability that's maybe not ideal for squad building and competitiveness. And Liverpool, we saw far more than that in total.” (David Ornstein, 03:42)
• The loss of key players (Trent Alexander-Arnold leaving, Alisson injury) and big-money signings (Florian Wirtz) needing time to settle further compound issues.
• Expectations shifted unrealistically high with spending; Liverpool's perfect start was flattering to deceive, with several late wins masking deeper problems.
  • “It was almost like they were papering over some cracks which is maybe the sign of champions, but... there is some concern there.” (David Ornstein, 07:11)

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3. Team Chemistry and Arne Slot’s Inheritance

[07:24–10:09]

• Simon notes that Liverpool’s evolution was inevitable post-Klopp, but the sheer scale of squad change invites teething problems:
  • “Championship winning teams... don’t change that much” (Simon Hughes, 07:44)
• The expectation for immediate results from new signings, particularly Florian Wirtz and Alexander Isak, is misguided; the manager now has to find a new balance—both in attack and defense.
• Mac Allister’s drop in form noted as symbolic of adaptation issues.
  • “Liverpool just haven't looked very organized and they've been too easy to play through at times.” (Simon Hughes, 35:47)

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4. Control, Confidence, and the First Goal Problem

[10:09–12:38]

• Statistically, Liverpool win when scoring first and lose when conceding first, reflecting a loss of match control and resilience.
  • “What you illustrate there is a lack of control because they've scored late and they've conceded late. There's no consistency to that trend.” (David Ornstein, 10:32)
• Discussion highlights that confidence isn't the only variable—injuries, personnel churn, and tactical changes all play into Liverpool’s difficulties.

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5. The Mo Salah Conversation: Decline or Circumstance?

[15:29–23:36]

• In-depth dissection of Mo Salah’s struggles:
  • At Stamford Bridge, failed to register a shot on target, all three dribble attempts failed, just three touches inside Chelsea’s penalty area ([16:02]).
• Simon attributes this more to systemic change, role alteration, and emotional toll than simple age-related decline:
  • “He looks a little bit tired actually... when you get to his age, given all the conversation around Liverpool giving him the contract, it’s inevitably going to lead to, well, has he lost a little bit?” (Simon Hughes, 16:24)
• David notes that Liverpool's internal analysis supported Salah’s contract, and partnerships—especially with Alexander-Arnold—are sorely missed:
  • “He certainly wasn’t declining. It was one of his finest seasons last time round.” (David Ornstein, 19:57)
• Both agree change in personnel, injuries, and emotional fatigue have diminished his efficiency.

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6. The Jota Tragedy: The Human Factor

[23:36–26:56]

• Simon and David discuss the traumatic impact of Diogo Jota’s death:
  • The squad, manager, and wider club are emotionally affected; Jota was not just a key player but a unifying presence.
  • “When that event’s happened, despite all the business that Liverpool were doing... if Liverpool were to really have a go and win the league from this position, it sounds ridiculous... but it’s a minor miracle really because it’s such a horrible thing to deal with.” (Simon Hughes, 24:08)
• Emotional fatigue is impacting on-pitch performances, and managing this is a unique challenge for Arne Slot.

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7. Is This a Crisis? What Needs Fixing?

[30:05–39:00]

• David contrasts current turbulence with last season’s setbacks, suggesting this is more a “blip” than a disaster—unless poor form continues into crucial upcoming fixtures (Man Utd, Real Madrid, Man City).
  • “They will be regarding this as a blip. And everything we’ve discussed shows it’s not easy.” (David Ornstein, 30:26)
• Simon identifies loss of “control” as the standout worry; Liverpool have surrendered goals and leads in ways not seen under Slot last season:
  • “That hasn’t happened at all this season... there hasn’t been any control really in any of the performances.” (Simon Hughes, 34:17)
• The scale of summer change, emotional toll, and tactical tweaks mean it may take time to reestablish the consistency and structure that powered last season’s title.

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8. Managerial Pressure and Fan Expectations

[35:39–37:00]

• Simon highlights the challenge of defending the title amidst high expectations and historic difficulty—Liverpool haven't retained the league since 1984.
• Fan expectations have been inflated due to big spending, but even with improvements in results, falling short is statistically likely.

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9. Transfer Successes and Flops: Across the League ([40:52–45:47])

• Quick roundup of early transfer successes:
  • Nick Walter Mada at Newcastle – “He’s delivered the goals so far. He’s a unique profile.” (David Ornstein, 41:10)
  • Jeremy Pino at Crystal Palace – “He’s really added some pace and trickery...” (David Ornstein, 41:10)
  • Jack Grealish at Everton – “He’s given the whole club a lift... he excites them.” (Simon Hughes, 42:38)
  • Jaden Anthony at Burnley – “Apparently he’s right up there on a load of the metrics as being one of the most productive players in the league so far this season.” (David Ornstein, 45:27)
• Early disappointments: Mads Hermansen (West Ham), Jadon Sancho (Aston Villa), Frimpong (Liverpool, slow start).
• On “who to drop” at Liverpool? David ducks outright criticism, observing Slot already benched Viets and Salah recently; final judgment rests on the next few games.
• Transfer window unlikely to resolve Liverpool’s issues; January is not seen as a reset opportunity.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Too many alterations cause an instability that's maybe not ideal for squad building.”
  — David Ornstein, [03:42]

• “I always felt when all these deals were being made that Liverpool will benefit from this definitely next season. I thought this season was going to be harder than people expected.”
  — Simon Hughes, [07:44]

• “What you illustrate there is a lack of control because they've scored late and they've conceded late. There's no consistency to that trend.”
  — David Ornstein, [10:32]

• “It’s a minor miracle really because it’s such a horrible thing to deal with... must be very hard for the players. When you’re emotionally drained, it’s hard to just suddenly [get] on the pitch and perform.”
  — Simon Hughes, [24:08]

• “He looks a little bit tired actually I think... He seems to be questioning himself on the pitch almost about what he's doing.”
  — Simon Hughes, on Mo Salah, [16:24]

• “They will be regarding this as a blip... it needs to click and it needs to click pretty fast.”
  — David Ornstein, [30:26]

• “Liverpool just haven’t looked very organized and they've been too easy to play through at times.”
  — Simon Hughes, [35:47]

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Timestamps – Most Important Segments

• [02:02–03:27]: What’s going wrong at Liverpool? Problems across the pitch
• [03:27–07:24]: Transfer spend, squad overhaul, and expectation management
• [15:29–23:36]: Mo Salah’s struggles, possible decline, and new dynamics
• [23:36–26:56]: The Diogo Jota tragedy and its emotional impact
• [30:05–34:17]: Is this run a crisis or a blip? Slot’s biggest test, finding control
• [35:39–37:00]: Historical context of title retention and fan expectations
• [40:52–45:47]: Transfer window standouts and flops; Liverpool’s “who to drop?” debate

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Tone & Closing Thoughts

The discussion is measured, insightful, and nuanced. Both guests stress that while Liverpool’s issues are real and rooted in squad instability, tactical adjustments, and trauma, panic is premature. There’s respect for the complexity of elite club management through adversity, and a call for patience—though the looming Manchester United and Real Madrid fixtures may prove pivotal for Arne Slot’s stewardship.

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Transcript

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[Ayo Akimbolere]

Welcome to the athletic fc podcast with me, Ayo Akimbolere. Liverpool had the perfect start after record spending, but now they have lost three in a row. So why is Arna Slot's red machine misfiring? Right with us today we have David Ornstein, our football correspondent, and also Simon Hughes as well. Simon, let's start with the Liverpool side of things. Look, they won their first seven in all competitions this season. In the last week, losses to Crystal Palace, Galatasara, and of course Chelsea as well. Can you just try and put it into context? Where you think it's going wrong for them?

[Simon Hughes]

Where should we start? I mean, I don't want to say that Liverpool are in crisis because I don't think they are. And I think that the problems that they have are solvable. I think they do have the players in the squad to get back to where they were last season. But at the moment, right across the pitch, there are problems. You know that the fullbacks on both sides aren't working at the moment. You know, there's problems in the center half, the goalkeepers injured, there's a lot of rotation in midfield, the wide players in attack aren't playing to the levels that they can. The number 10 that's been brought in hasn't quite settled. And then there's been changes in the number nine position, chopping and changing. So that doesn't make for a team that's going to go and win every single game at the moment. And it's going to make for the sort of inconsistencies between matches and sometimes inside the same match.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

David, it's fair to say there are a fair few new additions to this team and people always talk about the big money. They spent £450 million. But it's also worth caveating that with the fact that perhaps that masks the fact that this team still needs to find its fluency.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah, there's many factors to it and it's not quite as simple as they spent loads of money, they've got loads of good players, they won the league last season, they should be better this time round. I think it was Arsene Wenger who always used to say, I don't know if this was his exact wording, but he tried not to make more than five changes in and out every summer. And that was quite some time ago. But his point being that too many alterations cause an instability that's maybe not ideal for squad building and competitiveness. And Liverpool, we saw far more than that in total. And it's created a situation perhaps where despite people saying how can you ask for time when they've broken the transfer record twice, etc. But they do need time to bed in. There was fundamental changes. Trent Alexander, Arnold leaving, for example, and. And the struggles to find consistency right back, bringing in Florian Virtz and placing him in that 10 position, which seems to have had such a sort of profound effect on the team and its structure and its style, with us giving no sort of leniency for him to adapt. You've got Mo Salah who hasn't hit the same heights so far. That we're used to with him. You've got for example, Isaac who barely trained in a. In a first team environment and played no preseason. Many of us knew that that would take some weeks, maybe even months for Isaac to get up to the level we've come to know from him. I think expectations shifted massively after Liverpool barely did any recruitment in the first summer of Arneslot. Ended up really just being Chiesa and Marmodashvili to come in a year later after the Zubimendi pursuit didn't come to fruition. And so they won the league without really recruiting. And then now they've recruited heavily and it's a year into slot. The expectation is they're going to take the world by storm, they're going to win the Premier League again, then pick up the European Cup. It's not quite as straightforward as that. And, and then when you look at the performances and results so far, IOU started this pod by saying it was the perfect start. But I don't think it was the Community Shield. They lost to Crystal Palace. Then as the season began, very difficult game against Bournemouth that they could have lost. And then there were narrow margin victories. A set piece beat Arsenal. A goal at the death beats Burnley. I remember being at the Atletico Champions League game where they fought back. Liverpool were losing Leeds. Jamie Carragher's comments right at the very beginning of the season and talking about how high up the team were playing, even, even the fullbacks and how sort of risky that is. And Arne Slot responded that he wants to see his team playing like that. And the defensive stats have shown that it's. It's not quite as controlled and secure as it was last season by any means. And so yeah, they're sort of finding their way into the season. They've hit a difficult patch. There is the bigger picture of the trauma that they experience with the loss of Diogo Jota which people have started sort of reminding themselves of in the few days. And you've got other teams who, who are fiercely competitive with them and, and are fighting to knock them off that perch that they established last season. So I don't think it's as dramatic yet. Simon's right. Like they're two points off the top of the Premier League. There's an international break now. They may reset and come back strongly against Manchester United. They've got some pretty crucial fixtures on the horizon. The likes of Real Madrid and Manchester City not too far away. But it does give you pause for thought. There is some concern there and Liverp to get it right. If they're going to fulfill their ambitions.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

This season, should we be expecting more Simon? I mean, obviously we're not trying to get a bit too dramatic here but I guess much will be made about the money that's been spent. But actually you look at this in a different light. This sort of feels like what the evolution of Liverpool would be post Jurgen Klopp anyway. Because you'd like to think that Arne Slot inherited pretty much a similar team to the one Jurgen had.

[Simon Hughes]

Well, the players that cost the most amounts of money going to attract the most attention. So we talk about Florian Virt. If we're talking about him in isolation as a new sign and going into a team that is used to playing with one another and he's not quite performing, then yes, he would merit criticism I guess. I'm not saying that he's immune from criticism, but a lot of the players around him have changed as well. So this is a new team really. You tend to find that championship winning teams, as David just said, don't change that much. And I compare to 2019 when Liverpool won the championship and you could sense that that team is sort of coming towards the end even though they won the title the next season. You know, it'd been together for, for two or three years at that point and there was a big argument on that summit Liverpool should go and use this moment and spend and safeguards not just next season but the coming seasons. Now it's almost like last summer they did the opposite of that. Maybe they've gone a little bit too far with the amount of change. But I always felt when all these deals were being made that Liverpool will benefit from this definitely next season. I thought this season was going to be harder than people expected. But understandably expectations do go up when you're breaking transfer records. So it's fair to say I would have expected them, Florian Viet to at least have had an assist or a goal at this stage, but he hasn't really performed very well. But he's not alone. It's very difficult to pinpoint Liverpool's problem at the moment. And I actually think it's on the manager to sort this out. Really a lot of it is on him to try and figure out the best way of getting a balance into the team while getting minutes into the legs of a lot of players who are trying to get up to speed with the Premier League or the club. Or as David says, you've got a player like Alexander Isak who's missed a lot of pre season Alexis Mac Allister who I thought Liverpool's best player last season just doesn't look anywhere near the same level that he was at and is really struggling I think at the moment. So there's a lot to solve for Arnold Slot. The biggest concern for me at the moment it isn't necessarily the intensity with which Liverpool are playing with the ball, which I think could be better. I think Slot is trying to pace the Liverpool team a little bit more. It's depressing as well. They're lacking the intensity and the attention in a lot of situations there and organization as well. Maybe that's partly a consequence of all the changes that have happened. They're not as quick without the ball as they were last season as well. Which is more of a concern I think at the moment. I think the international break has arrived at just the right time.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Yeah, David, how important is the first goal? There's a. There's an interesting stat here that says when Liverpool have scored first they've won all seven of their matches in the last three. They've conceded first and lost all three. Actually conceded some in the last dying minutes of the match as well. Think about Crystal Palace. I mean, is it a confidence thing? Do you think this team is somewhat lacking in confidence? Perhaps.

[David Ornstein]

You know, what you illustrate there is is a lack of control because they've scored late and they've conceded late. There's no consistency to that trend. I don't think simple as a lack of confidence. You know, bouncing with confidence after those early results, irrespective of how they came about. But it always felt that things weren't quite right. And that's why I mentioned the Carragher thing. He seemed to pick up on it from that very first night of the season against Bournemouth. And it was almost like they were papering over some cracks which is maybe the sign of champions. But then at some point and maybe it's going to come for all teams, you know, in this title race. An Arsenal, a Manchester City and anybody else. And perhaps it's afflicted Liverpool a little bit earlier. There are contributing factors to whether it's a lack of confidence or. Or just momentum or control or balance. McAllister is a really good one that Sai points out and. And he has been afflicted perhaps by a disjointed preseason himself. And also the sort of positional changes and chemistry with Virtz in there now. And then there's other factors that are plain for all to see. So the right hand side with Mo Salah and let's not make out that he suddenly is not doing a defensive shift, although he did on, on occasions in the past. Specific examples, I think it was Man City away, but at Chelsea particularly, they took advantage. Cucarella said it after the match that they didn't think he would trap back and they had Conor Bradley to sort of target and they were often two on one against him and. But there are things that go against that because Mo Salah had opportunities at Stamford Bridge. There's other issues. There's Alisson's injury, you know, we know how important he is for the team and then he suffers this hamstring injury which we reported. Keep him out for, you know, something around six weeks, maybe. We won't see him until after the November international break. Suddenly you have Georgi Mamadashvili in goal, who's a new face in that dynamic. So I don't think it's as simplistic as confidence. I'm sure as a result of all the factors, your confidence maybe takes a bit of a knock and Liverpool have disappointed in the last couple of weeks, but that's not to say they can't get it back.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Yeah, we've touched on a few of the individuals that play next. We'll dig a little deeper.

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[Jeff Bridges]

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With his.

[Dana]

First touch, Find Salah and really, by Salah's normal standards from last season, you.

[Simon Hughes]

Would have expected that to be one all.

[David Ornstein]

I think today he had many opportunities.

[Simon Hughes]

To do what he's done so often.

[David Ornstein]

But yeah, he's a human being and.

[Simon Hughes]

It'S not like every chance he gets is always a goal. We feel sometimes it is because what he's done last season and so many times. But yeah, he can also have a game where he has chances and a lot of times in promising positions and don't have a goal on an assist.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Yeah, that was Arna Slot reflecting on some of the frustrations Mo Salah had at Stamford Bridge. But I just want to dig into some of the stats from that match. Simon look at this one. Failed to get a shot on target, failed all three dribbles he attempted, only had three touches in the Chelsea penalty area. There's been a lot of chat around Florian Wirtz but should we start talking about Salah?

[Simon Hughes]

Yeah, I mean he hasn't been anywhere near the level that he was last season and you know, over the last couple of days there's been conversation about his role defensively with Liverpool which I've got to say I find a little bit strange because he's 33 years old. He's played that position supremely well since he joined the club in 2017. I remember actually his first season at the club when he was scoring all these goals. Jurgen Klopp was quite reluctant to sort of heat that much praise on him because he wanted more out of him defensively. But I think both Klopp and Slot realized that you get more out of him by asking him to do less defensively. And the pace that he has, the higher up the pitch that he was previous under Klopp and under Slot to some extent the more dangerous he is as a player. That's not to say that he's not a hard worker. It's just the benefits of having him closest to the opposition goal far outweighs ways having him further back the pitch. Bearing in mind of course Liverpool the majority of their games they have most of the ball. You know Chelsea still a team that should be competing with them. And you know, on any day Chelsea can give Liverpool a race all game which is what they did on on Saturday. So in those big games maybe in these situations it shows a bit more. But more often than not having Salah as the furthest player forward in a lot of situations as we're 12 for Liverpool the problem is of course that relies on Salah delivering and he hasn't really. I think he' looked ponderous in possession, you know, not incisive. I think about how he started last season from the very first opening minutes of the game against Ibtric he was outstanding. He just looked right on it. He looks a little bit tired actually I think and I'm sure we'll get into Diogo Jota a bit later but we saw his reaction after the Bournemouth game. He's clearly been affected by this event. I think Salah over a long period of time one of his strengths has been this sense of invincibility, this idea that he is the greatest. And I think when you something like what's happened at Liverpool over the summer it's bound to question your sense of mortality even. And he seems to be questioning himself on the pitch almost about what he's doing. He's just not quite at the same level at this moment in time. And I Guess when you get to his age given you know all the conversation around Liverpool giving him the contract it's inevitably going to lead to well as he lost a little bit when Liverpool got the ball against Chelsea and when he was fed into space on quite a few occasions. Moments of great opportunity for Liverpool but the move would just end quickly. Then of course you've also got a lot changing around him as well. The players behind him have changed. He's. He had a really great relationship with Trent Alexander Arnold over a long period of time. You know, player who, who bring him into the game a lot. So he's no longer there. He's had three different right backs behind him this season. He's got Florian Vert inside of him. He's got changes between Gravenberg, McAllister, Curtis Jones to the obviously infield and then the center forwards changed a lot as well. So he's I suspect been aff by this level of change probably arguably more than any other Liverpool player.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Yeah and David on that stat around touches in the Chelsea box it's super interesting because that was the fourth time in nine Premier League and Champions League games this season he'd had three or fewer touches in the opposition's penalty area. That only happened three times in 47 games last season. I don't want to just say are we beginning to see the decline of Salah because of his age but there must be other permutations at play here.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah, we can't rewrite history because we were talking about this on many pods over the course of his contract negotiation and Liverpool would have run their analysis and ultimately concluded it was the right thing to do to offer him that contract. And they're privy to much more data and real life evidence than we are. It seemed like a fine wine that he was getting better with age. You know he certainly wasn't declining. It was one of his finest seasons last time round and there were very few people who were, were anti that contract and in the Liverpool fan base they were bang for it. They're banners on the cop and we've had many of these conversations about other players before at other clubs and and you saw the contract situations of say like an Urzil and a Bamiang and, and people use those as reference points but there have been many players who have been at an older age had their contracts renewed and they've maintained or even raised their level. Van Dijk's form has been pretty sharp and he's been leading by example. For Liverpool when he was in a similar position he's 34 now but you know he's still an imp player. I think it relates more to the partnerships that Simon touches upon in terms of getting into the position that you draw the the stats from IO because yeah Trent Alexander, Arnold and and Mo Salah had a phenomenal connection. There was also a good connection with Darwin Nunes and Mo Salah. I'm trying to think back to a goal maybe at the Emirates Stadium where they linked up really well and these are personal relationships as well as sort of professional and on field I think Luis Diaz is an under spoken if that's a word miss and loss because they didn't replace him really in a like for like way. He contributed so heavily. I do think he was a bit underrated by the the wider football fan base and that took a lot of the pressure expectation weight off of Mo Sale balanced out the team better. He took goal scoring and creativity burden during his time at the club. Distracted defenders and they've got a really good player coming through there which influenced decision not to recruit in Rio and Gamoa and he's shown flashes of brilliance not least his winner at Newcastle when he's played he hasn't featured much of late which is perfectly normal for for these young players.

[Simon Hughes]

We.

[David Ornstein]

We see that at different clubs across the league and side touches upon the. The midfield players inside him like Virtz is a completely different chemistry all of a sudden and yeah we can't get away from his age. We don't know that it was the right decision to award new contracts. When I say there weren't many who were were anti it there were some saying you know this is time for Liverpool of all clubs who who are really very forthright in the these decisions with Michael Edwards and fsg they've been quite cutthroat in the past with say Jordan Henderson and a few other players where against popular opinion they say you know we're going to go our separate ways. We're not going to award that contract and we're going to back ourselves to recruit. But how did you replace those Salah goals and assists and contribution and it's a really really tough call and as you qu rightly say there are many factors. It may still prove that they absolutely made the right decision to award him that contract and they need both to form better connections with him in the weeks and months ahead and he needs to raise his level because in the incident we mentioned I know it's only one and players can miss chances but there's something about the shot he Put over the bar at Chelsea. That just felt when you saw his face and when you've seen his face, right back to that opening match. When Simon talks about the emotion in front of the cop in relation to the Diogo Jota tragedy, it's been a tough time for him and it is a tough moment and it will be really interesting to see how he and the collective respond to that.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Yeah, we've been talking about it now a little bit, the Jota situation. Simon and Dave's just mentioned it again and you know Van Dijk spoke after the game on Saturday and he said it was always going to be a difficult season. It's not only because of what's happened on the pitch but also because of what has happened off it. You can't underestimate just what kind of impact, not just to players like Salah and Van Dijk, but just the entirety of Lille Liverpool Football Club that happening before the season kicks off will have an effect on operations and also football playing as well.

[Simon Hughes]

Well, I remember the interview that Arnold Slot gave to, I think it was to sky ahead of the first game when he was asked about, you know, the summer and he, he did say, you know, it's almost a miracle that within five weeks of the tragedy happening he's got a team together out on the pitch starting the Premier League. That's after, you know, a pre season tour in the Far East. Football moves on quickly, doesn't it? The season starts, there's the relay of games. I know the Liverpool fans sing about Diogo Jota on the 20th minutes of every game but that will still be there lingering in the backs of the players minds. There's a lot of sort of context here and sometimes it might sound like excuses for the players but there has been an awful lot going on at Liverpool. An active player of outstanding passing away so publicly. It must be very hard for the players when they go into the training ground every single day and they know that he would be there and he's not there. And not only that, when the playing games, you know, that Liverpool could have done with Diogo Jota on the pitch several occasions already this season. There was a lot of games last season where Jota came on and affected the game, whether that was through a goal or his performance. And he was a really, really good player as well. I mean I know we understandably focus on the human loss which should be. But he was an excellent player for Liverpool is very difficult to replace. So all these things rolled into it makes it difficult for the players. I Think when that event's happened, despite all the business that Liverpool were doing. I think I said on the podcast that we do separately, the Liverpool focused podcast, if Liverpool were to really have a go and win the league from this position. It sounds ridiculous to be talking like this, but it's a minor miracle really because it's such a horrible thing to deal with. We know in football clubs relationships are quite transient. You know, the players aren't often as close as it might seem because of, you know, social media outputs of football clubs and stuff like that. But you know, there's quite unique relationships develop and suddenly when somebody's ripped out of that world and is no longer there, I can't imagine how hard it's been for particularly the players who were very close to him. He sounds like he was sort of everyone's friends as well. You know, that sort of character, quite approachable. So it must be hard on the players, must be draining emotionally. And when you're emotionally drained, I think it's very hard to just suddenly the pitch and perform. I know people talk about the games being a release from the stresses of life, but unfortunately this tragedy is rooted in what happens on the football pitch. It must be hard for the manager as well. How do you address this? How often do you speak about it? Arnold Schloss is a football manager. I'm sure he's done qualifications and mental well being and he understands how players are. But this is something beyond he's qualified for. I would say say this is the.

[Athletic FC Podcast Announcer]

Athletic FC podcast with IO Akimolere.

[Jeff Bridges]

Morning, Zoe. Got donuts. Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage? Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me. So Dana. Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile we'll get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system. Wow, impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice. Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Dana]

T mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Jeff Bridges]

So what are we having for launch? Dude, my work here is done.

[T-Mobile Announcer]

Monthly bill credit is on experience beyond four well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit send and balance due. Cancel Finance agreement. IPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto pay plus taxes and fees required. Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklab Speedtest Intelligence data 1H 2025 visit t mobile.com if you're.

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[Simon Hughes]

Kukara join the attack two now still committing plenty forward and it is.

[Dana]

Kukara stoppage time drama at Stamford Bridge.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Well, Saturday's loss made it three in a row as mentioned at the top of the podcast for the first time in Arnas Slot's managerial career. David, I don't know if you could cast your mind back to last season. Remember when in a week Liverpool basically went out of the Champions League to PSG and also the Carabao Cup Final to Newcastle? Is this worse or is that one worse? And also, I mean how big a test is this for Arnold Slott to turn his team around?

[David Ornstein]

It's hard to compare and this isn't a critical part of the season in terms of that jeopardy, in terms of decisive events, of falling out of competitions. Let's just be clear. We've talked and the analysis of, of what's gone on is fair, but it wasn't so long ago that their recruitment was being lauded and they've been described by many as having won the transfer window and, and if you look individually at what they've bought in and you can scrutinize some of the decisions, but players that many clubs would like to have, in some cases excellent value for money, in others, they've. They've paid a premium and they'll be desperate that those players, players fulfill their potential and it comes to fruition. But their squad is the envy of many teams and so they will be regarding this as a blip. And everything we've discussed shows it's not easy. There's a huge amount that they need to work on like other clubs do and there's a multitude of reasons for this. James Pearce, in his piece from the weekend, sort of says this is unprecedented for slot and it's worth a read on the Athletic. You know, he's never suffered, is it three consecutive defeats in his managerial career. And so he'll need to pull it together pretty quickly because while I say it's not as damaging as the run you refer to from last season, of course you can't start to let games run away from you in terms of if Arsenal, Man City or others surpass them, build up a head of steam. They have a League cup game on the resumption. I think it's against Crystal palace. You don't want to fall out of that competition. Suddenly you start to see a bit of difficulty on the horizon with the Champions League opponents as well. Real Madrid. Simon quite rightly said it's not a crisis, but you don't want this stutter to turn into something like that and then momentum gets away from you. This is. It feels like the first true test of on a slot in a sort of more negative sense because everything, even last season when, when they hit difficulty, it was kind of like it wasn't a shot to nothing. But he was new and Richard Hughes in the sporting director was new. Michael Edwards was back in the club. It was somewhat unexpected that they went on to become Premier League champions and it wasn't all sailing. They would have wanted to do better in, in other competitions, especially on the European front, but that didn't carry the sort of level of expectation that this does. And so now Liverpool fans in particular are looking at them to really be in a delivery phase and then a lot of what we've described is is a bit of a transition but I don't want that to be taken to mean you know you can spend whatever it was 400 plus million and be described as a team in transition but it is more nuanced than than that it needs to click and it needs to click pretty fast so that they don't let things get out of control and unravel and and I don't expect them to do anything in the January transfer window but it is there as an option if they need. They're not planning for example to recruit at center back but if any more injuries was happen I don't know then then there's something you can think about there. But I think what we're seeing now for all intents and purposes is almost the entirety of the squad that's going to take them through the season and so individually and colle and it's important to deliver and if they don't get back on song against Man United in their next match then immediately the scrutiny will start to grow.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Yeah, I mean Man United at Anfield Simon interesting one but also Andy Jones in briefing basically stated after their three defeats Liverpool how the tables have turned. After being the Kings of Lake goals Liverpool have become the recipient of last minute losses. I mean there needs to be a reset. The international break feels like a natural reset but surely they have to come out of that international break all guns blazing.

[Simon Hughes]

Well the strength of Arneslot's teams last year was the control that he had on matches. Quite a lot of times they go to 2 nil and see it out thousand happens at all this season they've gone to 2 nil and on a couple of occasions, on a few occasions let that lead slip and had to work very hard to then go and win the game. Like there hasn't been any control really in any of the performances bar maybe the Athletico game. I felt that that game was a bit different to the other games where they've let the two goal leads slip and they were still creating a lot of chances. Even when Atletico got back into the game they sort of inched and fought the way back into it in a way that it wasn't like Liverpool just totally collapsed in that game I felt but in the other games they have and I can understand why people are concerned because it's the opposite of what got them into a space where they could win the league last season I felt at the start of this season that Liverpool could win the league. But I didn't expect them to because I don't necessarily equate massive spending and huge overhaul with success. You look at most football clubs where there's a lot of change that happens at once. It doesn't necessarily lead to them going on and win the league the next season. So I thought that this was a longer term decision. You know, that the pressure, I don't say the pressure was off but when you win the league in the first season, I don't think anybody in the right mind seriously thinks that Liverpool should go on and win the league season after season after season. I know Manchester City have done that and I've sort of reshaped what success looks like to some extent.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Do you not think the fans want that though? Come on, retaining the Premier League, continuous Premier League champions, rewriting the narrative of the club moving forward.

[Simon Hughes]

Forward, yeah of course they want that. But I think people who followed Liverpool for long enough certainly match going fans accept that it's not easy retaining the league title. I mean Liverpool haven't done, I think they've only done it five times in the, in the club's entire history. The last time I think was 1984. So it's not an easy thing to do. But when you spend a lot of money, particularly breaking transfer records, you think it's going to put you in a position that is, is going to make that more possible. But you know, Liverpool maybe just signed Isaac and Vert and being able to keep everything else as it was then. The chances of Liverpool win the league this season probably increases. I think with everything else that's changed. With all how upsetting the summer was for a lot of people. I think that makes it harder. The United game. It could. Well, I think it will be a key game this season because it'll either give them the bounce going into it, you know, a set of fixtures which yeah, there are some tough games in there but there are quite a few, you know, games that Liverpool will be expected to win as well. And you know, Liverpool played Man United last season when everybody was expecting them to win. United gave them a really tough game at Anfield and you know, I actually think United should have won that game. I couldn't believe it when United players were almost celebrating the draw afterwards. I thought that really reflected how far United have fallen. Not that you pin everything on one game but I do think if they were to drop points in that game, certainly they were to lose it. It's certainly not going to help them. Is it as David said he was touching on James piece from the weekend about the pressure really being on slot. I do actually think that, you know there is a lot on him here. I think he, he is the one who has to solve the problems that Liverpool have. I think he has made mistakes in the last couple of games. I think the Chelsea game put. I think he's putting a bit too much faith in this idea that players are multifunctional and can just drop into positions here, there and everywhere. I tend to think just my view you can maybe afford to do that with one player max maximum maybe two players but not in the games where you know Chelsea away and you draw them on all and you're trying to go and win the game. You know they ended up with two of the midfielders last season playing in the, in the defense. And I don't think that's a recipe really for an organized team if you like. That's what's troubled me in the. In the this season so far Liverpool just haven't looked very organized and they've been too easy to play through at times. The data suggests, you know, that the teams haven't had chances but teams have got themselves into positions where they haven't manifested into chances far too often I think and Liverpool putting a lot of pressure on themselves. So he needs to find a way to get back to the way Liverpool were last season. And a lot of that was based around the consistency of the team selection week and week out. And the team selection is chopping and changing every single game at the moment. Maybe there's some thought process, maybe it's deliberate from slot because I know he felt that last season they benefited early on in the season by the consistent team selections and it cost him in the back end of the season even though they won the league, he felt little marginal differences against Paris Saint Germain could have made a difference with slightly fresher players coming up against soccer position at that stage of the season. So maybe he's trying to counter against that. But sometimes you know the games get in the way of you know, these grander plans and at the moment Liverpool just need to get back into a rhythm which is identifiable.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Okay David, before we go, a couple of questions have come in for you over on YouTube. I'm going to throw the first one to you. And this one states seeing Chelsea's injury crisis at the back. Is there any chance they might target a center back in January? And if so, who are some names that might be on the list like.

[David Ornstein]

Chelsea need more players recruitment and Chelsea it just never stops. But I'm going to bring a stop to it. Listen, they've recruited heavily and developed from within in that position. So I mean the reason the question comes is on the basis of the so called injury crisis. But from what we're hearing initially badiashil and achiepamen are not severe injuries and there's an international break now there's another one coming up in November. I don't know the durations but I don't think they're bad ones. So that's a positive for Chelsea F fans. You've got Chalaba returning from suspension. You have Fafana not far off being back from concussion, was it? So this season I've got every expectation that they're well covered. Hatto came on and played really well and I would not expect them as things stand to dip into the market for a center back. No. So then therefore I can't give you names. We know and reported on many of the names that they looked at ahead of signing Hatto last summer. And of course one of the players that came in was SA who then has gone to Strasbo and then who would be coming into Chelsea presumably next summer and therefore I don't think that's an area of focus for them heading towards January.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Okay, this one's quite an interesting one. Which transfers are working well for their clubs and for the ones which aren't. What is the reason? I mean that's a loaded question. Also following on to that, as a Liverpool fan, who do you think slot should improve the most? Also who should he drop from the squad? Well, I don't know how you're going to take this one, but give it your best go.

[David Ornstein]

Didn't the transfer window just close and. And like we've had, this is our second international break since then. I. I think slightly early might be putting it mildly for the success of signings who's worked well.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Yeah, Volta Marda has been good. Seems like he has for Newcastle.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah. Thanks for taking the one that I'd planned off of the tip of my tongue. I think Nick Walter Mada has done very well, especially given the sort of the nature of everything that was going on at Newcastle. The. The search for a striker, the departure of Isaac, the burden that was put upon his shoulders, the price tag which has been scrutinized by the higher ups at Bayern Munich. And he seems to have been pretty carefree in his demeanor, high quality and his. His play. He's delivered the goals so far. He's a unique profile and so yeah, I definitely feel he. He's working well. Another one that I'll point heard that you stole my thunder on on Baltimade is maybe Jeremy Pino at Crystal Palace. I really like that piece of recruitment. It's a bit risky when you know is very diminutive, small physically player from height wise anyway Spain international but we haven't seen many of them at a club like Crystal palace and I think he's been sensational so far. He's really added some. Some pace and trickery and ingenuity and. And end product. He's incisive size. Going to come in with one?

[Simon Hughes]

No, no. Sorry no I didn't want to interrupt you David. That's a really fair point about Pino because I've been really impressed by him as well. But I'd actually say Jack Grealish at.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Everton, that's not a bad shot.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah.

[Simon Hughes]

An excellent signing so far.

[David Ornstein]

He's been excellent.

[Simon Hughes]

Yeah. I mean he's been excellent. I think he obviously scores a really important goal at the weekend weekends. He's affected every game that I've watched. Maybe bar the West Ham game, it wasn't a great performance by Everton but he's given the whole club a lift. You listen to Evertonians, they've fallen in love with him. He excites them. He gives them something that they haven't had I'd say since Roberto Martinez or David Moyes was manager in his previous spell. So I could understand the arguments either side for that signing. Obviously he's a loan signing and there's a lot of money being spent on his wages. So it's sort of dead money economically. It might not make a load of sense but sometimes it's a false economy, isn't it? Who knows? He could get Everton into a position where they feasibly could qualify for Europe. That should be the target based on the way they've started the season. I would say I think Moyes has got to make the Evertonians dream big again and at this moment getting into Europe would be the equivalent of that. And I think if you get Jack Grealish performing the way that he has done so far every single week, it increases that play possibility.

[David Ornstein]

Yeah. And especially the circumstances he came from City with and, and I remember when I broke the news about there being a 50 million pound option to buy and everybody sort of laughed and said well that's not going to be activated. Okay, probably won't. But it's not so unrealistic now. Maybe it should have been double what Man City put in there and then maybe notable mentions for Muhammad Kudus. He's done well so far at Tottenham and maybe even like a granite Jaco at Sunderland. He's had a really good impact and yeah, that question included the other side things as well. And I hate doing this because it, it feels mean towards players, but I don't think say Mads Hermansen, the, the goalkeeper, the West Ham sign from, from Leicester has had anywhere near the desired impact so far. It'd be nice to see Jadon Sancho get on the pitch for Aston Villa and see what he can do because obviously somebody like him comes with expectation. Frimpong we know is a really good player from Leverkusen Dutch national team, but haven't really seen it so far for Liverpool. So yeah, there's a few that you'd like to see improvement from. What was part of that question on Liverpool?

[Ayo Akimbolere]

I mean, this puts you in a weird situation. Who do you think he should drop the most from the squad on a slot?

[David Ornstein]

I'm going to cop out on this one because he kind of already did it. He took Florian Viets out the the firing line against Chelsea and used him from the bench and that shows that, you know, he's still experimenting with how to get that dynamic right at the sort of 10 position. He took Mo Salah out for the the European game in midweek but dropped is. Is harsh. I'll judge it after the Man United game.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Brilliant. Brilliant. Lovely conclusion there, gents. Appreciate you jumping in on that one as well. Simon.

[David Ornstein]

I've got one more.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

All right, go on then.

[David Ornstein]

Before we go. Oh, you got one more Belter of a really good signing so far. Jaden Anthony by Burnley from Bournemouth. He's been excellent and I'm the worst person on data ever. But apparently he's right up there on a load of the metrics as being one of the most productive players in the league so far this season. So yeah, he joins the notable mentions.

[Ayo Akimbolere]

Do you know what perfect way to end it. Thank you very much.

[Athletic FC Podcast Announcer]

You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Aidi Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows. Search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast site, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

[Jeff Bridges]

Morning, Zoe. Got donuts. Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage. Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me so Dana. Oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mob. We'll get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system. Wow, impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice. Jeffrey, you heard them.

[Dana]

T mobile is the best place to get the new new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Jeff Bridges]

So what are we having for launch? Dude, my work here is done.

[T-Mobile Announcer]

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