IO Akimolere (4:47)

James, I mean Liverpool are in pole position really to take the Premier League this season. But you know, you look at the exits from the Cups, you look at the exits from the Champions League, this is yet another bit of news for Liverpool that the press is sort of circulating around. But I would say does this come as a bluff? But in reality I don't know. From my standpoint I almost felt there was an air of inevitability about where we are right now with the Trent situation.

Host (5:11)

Yeah, Yeah. I certainly don't think this would have come as a big shock to Michael Edwards or Richard Hughes. I think, as David said, it's been pretty clear for a while the way this one was heading. You go back to January when Real Madrid made that attempt to buy Trent, when of course, their need was great, having lost Carvajal to a serious knee injury. Things like that don't happen unless there's been some encouragement. And I think just the pure. The lack of positive noises in contrast to, you know, you look at van Dijk and Salah and they've both been open about the fact that they would love to be able to stay if the right agreement can be put in place. We haven't heard that from Alexander Arnold, have we? So he's kept his counsel pretty much throughout this saga. He hasn't stopped in a mixed zone to speak to U.S. reporters since September. So, yeah, I think there's certainly been an inevitability about this. And then, you know, I think obviously there's been lots of reports in Spain that it's absolutely done and dusted. You know, we. We understand that's not quite the case. There's still a little bit of work to be done, but I don't. Yeah, I don't think anyone expects this to end up anywhere else apart from Trent Alexander Arnold playing at the Bernabeu next season.

IO Akimolere (6:21)

Yeah, Phil, I mean, what were your thoughts when you heard about the emergence that Trent Alexander Arnold could possibly. I don't say it like that because it hasn't actually happened, but could be possibly heading to Real Madrid?

Phil Hay (6:32)

Not surprised in the slightest. Exactly. As James has just outlined, I think struck for the first time how solid the news seemed to be. And actually it felt like finally we were cutting to the chase on this, but it feels like the water has been flowing in that direction for. For a good while now. And I always felt that the three who were out of contract this summer, Alexander Arnold was the one who was. Was definitely going. He's 26, he's. He's not a player who. Any club should be losing for nothing. And if Liverpool were going to sort him out and tie him down, if there was going to be an. It would have got moving properly by now. I understand again that they have to be a bit more circumspect with Van Dijk and Salah because of their age. If you look around football these days, clubs just don't commit to big contracts, to players beyond the age of 30 or not. Not in anything other than very Rare circumstances. But losing Trent has no real upside. I've known only for a long time now. And his transfer stories are always, always about the facts. But at the same time when you read them you tend to get a sense from the writing of how he's reading the runes. And when I say Real Madrid looking to close out a deal for Alexander Arnold, that made me think straight away, you know, this is on. If not signed and sealed, then it's getting very, very close. And I see the appeal. You know, it's the Bernabeu for one thing, and over the years the world's best at being seduced by that stadium and that club. There's definitely something about being at Real or Barcelona that seems to supersede an awful lot of other teams elsewhere in Europe and in the world. It's going to be very lucrative for him. You know, it's like signing on fee heaven and being out of contract and financially it's a bit of a dream for real as well, not having to pay a fee. So like I said, not surprised at all.

IO Akimolere (8:14)

Yeah, David, we know Real Madrid have been sniffing around Trent Alexander Arnold for a while, but from your perspective, how long has this been in the pipeline?

David Ornstein (8:22)

Yeah, I mean there are many different elements to this. You've got Liverpool who, who could have addressed the situation sooner. Now none of us know exactly what has gone on behind the scenes here and it puts us in a very difficult position to judge the rights and the wrongs, the ins and the outs and. And many people are doing that, especially on social media without knowing events behind the scenes, myself included. But Liverpool did have a lot of time in which they could have tried to address it. But there were changes in Sporting director from Michael Edwards to Julian Ward to Jug Shmatka and then to Richard Hughes. And so this was an inherited problem, same as Van Dijk and Salah for the current regime. That's not to say it isn't on their watch. And they had the opportunity to get there with all three or make some progress and do the best they could. There was an offer to Trent Alexander Arnold and only he and Liverpool will know what went on in those conversations. If it was suitable, if it was not, if it was too late, if the allure of Real Madrid was just too much. So, so there's the Liverpool part, there's the Trent Alexander Arnold part with a lot of people presiding over it on X in particular, without any idea of what would have been going through his mind, his dialogue or his representative's dialogue with Liverpool. I'm not placing blame. And I'm not absolving. I'm just saying, like, we should show a bit of respect. Some of the reaction that he has faced as a footballer, a player who has come through at Liverpool and you could say has shown loyalty by staying with them throughout his career. To date, he's a brilliant talent, which is why we're all talking about him and why there's a lot of hurt in this as well. Of course, Liverpool fans would have loved to have seen him stay for the rest of his career. And they've picked up on some comments from the past that many footballers make talking about their affinity with a particular club. You know, there's been a lot of criticism for him as well from certain quarters of fam bases and the media about, you know, his perceived defensive weaknesses. And then you've got the Real Madrid part of this as well, because there are very few players who Real Madrid come for that turn their head away and say, no, I don't want to join you. And you can look at Liverpool's setup now, which is really exciting. They're challenging for all the major honors. They look set to do so into the future. And people are understandably saying, well, you could have fulfilled all your ambitions at Liverpool and become the captain, but it is allowed that you, you want to try different things in your career. And you say, look, it's, it's a chance for me to experience a different club, arguably the best on the planet, certainly the most successful in Europe. A new stadium, a new country, a new language, a new culture. I don't understand why that's not okay. So then people listening to this might say, oh, well, it's the way, way he's gone about it and he strung Liverpool along and he didn't communicate, but he didn't communicate in either direction. He didn't say, I'm going to be signing this. He didn't say, I'm not going to be signing this and I'm going to be leaving. He said early on, this isn't going to be played out through the media. And in the end, what has emerged is reports in Spain and around Europe essentially which some of us in the UK have followed up on. We've still not heard anything from him, we've still not heard anything from Liverpool or Real Madrid and, and I kind of think perhaps they were in a no win situation and I don't know, just a bit of calm and restraint is probably healthy on all sides here and inside Liverpool, I'm not aware of there being kind of Meltdowns like there are on, on social media, I'm sure it's pretty calm because although this is more than a game and it's like life and death for many people and people hate this phrase, but it's a business as well. Like many players have been in this situation before, it's hard. It's come at a really difficult time because Liverpool got knocked out of the Champions League. They lost the League cup final, they were knocked out of the FA cup not so long ago. Their form has stuttered a bit. They should be okay in the Premier League, but that's not helped this situation.

IO Akimolere (12:39)

Yeah, James, Richard Hughes has got a bit of flak, but is it fair? I mean, a lot of this sounds relatively inherited as David has pointed out in the earlier.

Host (12:49)

Yeah, I think you have to view how Trent has got to this point in the context of the upheaval behind the scenes in the last few years. As David said, Julian Ward left in the summer of 2023 after only a year as sporting director. And Jorg Schmadtka said himself when he came in as interim sporting director, he basically said, I'm here as a facilitator for transfers to do what Jurgen Klopp asked me to do. Which meant he wasn't sporting director in the true sense of the word. So, and then it was almost a perfect storm because around that time FSG are looking for fresh investment. Mike Gordon, who was responsible for the day to day running of the club, was looking to take a step back from his commitments. And then of course, November 23, Klopp tells the owners he intends to leave at the end of the season. That's kept a pretty closely guarded secret until the back end of January. And of course for the rest of the season everything was on ice until the new sporting director, Richard Hughes and the new head coach Arnold slot were in place. So yeah, that was kind of how it reached this point, you know. And I think it's also important to kind of say, well, there are no guarantees that if Liverpool had put a contract under his nose quicker that he would have signed. That's one of the things we don't know at the moment. You know, we don't know how many offers he's had, we don't know how, how lucrative those offers have been. Because I think one of the interesting thing that jumps out from the reports in Spain has been saying this has been very much a long term project from Real Madrid, you know, two years in the making. And that if it's true, what sources in Spain are saying it was that Real Madrid made it very clear from the off that they only wanted him on a free transfer. So, you know, that kind of also negates this idea of why didn't Liverpool just sell him, you know, last summer? Because, of course, a player would have to agree to that, and there's no guarantees that Real Madrid would have been willing buyers at that time. And I think even now, you look back and you think there's no doubt Liverpool did the right thing in January, not taking 15, 20 million or whatever was on the table, because that kind of fee is just small, small change in relation to the value of winning the Premier League title.

IO Akimolere (14:55)

Yeah, for sure. Thanks for that, James. And also, David, thank you for your time as well. No, you've definitely got lots more you're cooking up in the background. Appreciate it, sir.

David Ornstein (15:02)

Pleasure. See you soon, guys.

IO Akimolere (15:04)

All right, next we'll be joined by our Real Madrid writer, Guillermo Ray to get the view from Madrid on Trent Alexander Arnold's impending move to the Spanish capital.

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All right.

IO Akimolere (16:39)

Hi, everyone. We'd love to hear from you. We're asking you to fill out a quick survey about you and your podcast habits by going to theathletic.com athletic survey25. Three lucky entries will win $100 or pounds worth of Amazon vouchers as well. So Whether you're a longtime listener or a new one, we want your feedback. Go to theathletic.com athletic survey25. The link is also in our episode description. Thank you so much. Let's get back to the podcast. Okay. Joining us now from Madrid we have our Real Madrid writer, Guillermo Ray. Guillermo, look, after two years Real Madrid have been chasing Trent Alexander. Arnaud looks like they potentially might get him this summer. The question is, do they actually need him?

Guillermo Ray (17:30)

Hello, are you. I think definitely this season has been a nightmare for Carlo Ancelotti with the Dani Carvajal's injury, he torn his acl. It hasn't been easy for the coaching staff. They have managed to keep win and you know, surviving with Fede Valverde as emergency right back. Lucas Badquez, who could be considered as like the natural right back, has had also some injuries and is a position who really needs a reinforcement. The coaching staff asked for this reinforcement in the winter transfer window and in the summer it seems like it will be good news for Real Madrid if they bring definitely Alexander Arnold.

IO Akimolere (18:16)

Yeah, it's very rare that Florentino Perez doesn't get what he wants, let's face it. So be really interesting to see how this all plays out. James, I was listening to the Walk on podcast and you guys were talking about Trent Alexander Arnold's legacy at Liverpool, you know, leaving at the age of 26. I mean it's fair to say he's achieved a lot with his boyhood club. What do you think his legacy will be if he does end up going to, to Real Madrid? Will he get his statue? I know he's got a mural but will he get his statue?

Host (18:41)

No, I think we can rule out the statue. Yeah, I think it's interesting. I mean legacy is so subjective, isn't it? And I think I've got friends who are seasoned ticket holders who are pretty much divided down the middle about this. I think, you know, I've had lots of messages saying, you know, I can't believe that he would walk away. What about, you know, the comments about wanting to be Liverpool captain one day about being a one club man and others saying, well, good luck to him, he's 26, he's given us 20 years of his life, joined the academy at the age of six. He's won the lot, played nearly 350 games. He's been so influential, I'm wishing him all the best. So there is a real divide.

Phil Hay (19:22)

James, I'm just going to ask, given that conflict of opinion then how do you think the crowd are going to deal with him for what's left of the rest of the season.

Host (19:29)

Yeah, for a start, I wouldn't envisage any hostility towards him inside Anfield. I think, as we know, social media is a whole different world to the real world. And I think those who see it as just, you know, it's life, players come and go, new heroes will emerge, C'est la vie. They will be positive towards him and he'll, you know, he'll get a decent enough send off. I think those who feel differently will probably just keep their counsel and stay quiet and it'll be more apathy than any hostility. I think what is clear is that if, as expected, he does join Real Madrid, then he will know this as much as anyone. He gives up that kind of any hope he maybe once had of being remembered in the same bracket as Steven Gerrard or Jamie Carragut. Because the reason they are so adored by Liverpool fans everywhere is not just what they won, but it's the loyalty and the longevity that they gave to the club in the city they grew up in. So that's the choice that Trent Alexander Arnold had to make. It's the same choice as Steve McManaman had to make at the turn of the century before he went to the Bernabeu. So, yeah, I think certainly the people I've spoken to, Liverpool fans are pretty divided on this.

IO Akimolere (20:44)

Yeah. Well, on Liverpool fans. Let's hear now from Simon Hughes speaking on our dedicated Liverpool podcast. Walk on about what Trent's impending departure means for his standing amongst supporters.

James Pearce (20:56)

He's given up on the Liverpool captaincy. The last local Liverpool captain to win the title was Phil Thompson in 1980. That's a long time. Trent could do something that Steven Gerrard couldn't do. Sadly, you know, rightly or wrongly, Trent certainly played in a better team than Steven Gerrard, I would argue. But I mean, there's no guarantee that he could get there, of course, as Liverpool captain, but he'll never know, you know what I mean? He'll never know. So he'll only be doing at Real Madrid potentially what lots of other players have done. I think the thing that rubs me up the wrong way in terms of the things that he said is about like this idea he spoke in the autumn about changing the game and winning the Ballon d'or and stuff like that, which, okay, I respect your ambition, but it said to me then that he was definitely thinking about more than Liverpool, you know what I mean? Surely playing for Liverpool is enough, you know, like anybody Any local lads would do anything to play for Liverpool and be in that position. It's not something you give up easily. And I think he's given up an awful lot to go and become a more arguably more successful footballer in a team for real Madrid, whether that manifests into a more successful individual.

IO Akimolere (22:09)

Yeah, I mean Phil, this is also really interesting for me in terms of how we deem footballers, especially local footballers as well and, and what they deserve to do or what they should do if they've grown up at the club, their boyhood club and ended up playing professional. But you know, I mean everyone reserves the right to also just follow their dreams. He's done a lot at Liverpool.

Phil Hay (22:29)

Yeah, they do. The concept of loyalty is pretty partisan in football and I think having your cake and eating it is often the nature of football fandom which is to say that people, and probably no different expect players to be ultra loyal when they're at your club but equally when your club are looking to sign players from elsewhere have no kind of scruples about those players doing so up in sticks, no questions asked. Put it this way, nobody complains about loyalties when the transfers are incoming. It just never happens. The friction here is definitely in part anyway but I think to a large degree because of the nature of his impending ex, the fact that it's on a free transfer so there's no fee, there's no transfer cash recouped for him which would help Liverpool massively and in the circumstances it doesn't help Liverpool at all. I get why that rankles and he does have the added complication of being a Liverpool boy academy player. That definitely clouds these matters further. I just think in reference to somebody like Gerard has been a bit said that this week about that that summer where it looked like he was going to go to Chelsea and seemed to be asking to to go to Chelsea so. So these things aren't, aren't black and white either way. But in fairness to Alexander Arnold, you have to make the point that Liverpool's contractual management, if it hasn't been terrible, it hasn't been ideal. They've got three of the top players all contract in the same summer and it would be pretty ridiculous to try and suggest that they've done that by design. So for sure Trent Alexander Arnold is looking after himself and Real Madrid's a stonking move for him, there's no doubt about that. I do get why, why he wants to to take it and he has to front up what comes in return. But there are questions for Liverpool to answer too. And I think one of the things that we might never know and I think is just how far Liverpool have gone in, in trying to keep him. That does seem pretty crucial in all this.

IO Akimolere (24:20)

Yeah, for sure, James, I'm going to come to that in a bit. But Guillermo, I'm just thinking about Trent Alexander Arnold coming to join, I guess a new type of galactico. Is he going to be yet another player? That is there because I see the commercial value for Real Madrid. But also, do Real Madrid fans feel excited about the potential of Trent Alexander Arnold coming to their club?

Guillermo Ray (24:41)

Well, I think it has been considered as a market opportunity. Right. When we mention some players who were targeted by Real Madrid, for example Lenny Yoro or for example Jude Bellingham within the club, they said that they were generational talents. But here we are talking about a player who is probably in the peak of his career. I mean, he will end up at Real Madrid for free. So it's considered a success. Even that is not considered like a generational talent as such, given the last missteps from Real Madrid, Leni Yorh himself or for example Alfonso Davies. And the feeling among the Real Madrid fan base probably is the success of Real Madrid during the transfer sagas has proved wrong lately. And I think what it means, this future signing, if it gets done, I think it will mean that Real Madrid gets back to. To the successful way of doing things that has proved successful. For example, with Antonio Rudiger, David Alaba or now Kylian Mbappe.

IO Akimolere (25:54)

Yeah, yeah. That's interesting what you said, James, in terms of the peak of his career. I wonder if, you know, there's a bit of a sore point here that Liverpool are losing the player in the peak of his career. Because if you look at what they're trying to build as well moving forward, this is a player that could also be influential in making that happen.

Host (26:11)

Yeah, yeah. I think there's no sugar coating the size of the loss to Liverpool. Many you only had to sit and watch the Carabao Cup Final recently and I know there was a lot more wrong than just the absence of Trent that day. But Liverpool were desperately lacking creativity and someone to open up a defence in a way that few players can like him. And I think, you know, at times the kind of the wider narrative around Trent has been some kind of feels like it's so obsessed with picking holes in what he can't do rather than acknowledging the extraordinary skill set that he's got. So, yeah, I think the only thing with that, that kind of maybe negates it slightly is. I think we've seen Liverpool's style evolve under Arne Slot. I think certainly under Klopp. Liverpool were so reliant on the fullbacks to create, whilst now, you know, the midfield three are more involved. We've seen Trent almost revert back to a more traditional kind of role this season. He hasn't been marauding forward and given the same kind of freedom as we've seen previously. But yeah, he' he's 26, I think, you know, if he had two, three years left on his contract, we'd be talking about 100 million pound asset. So, you know, that's why people are so upset. It's not just the fact that he's a local lad, it's because he's also incredibly gifted.

IO Akimolere (27:31)

Guillermo, just a quick one on the way. Real Madrid are doing business. You talk about David Alaba. You took a look at Antonio Rudiger. You could at Kylian Mbappe's deals. All three really interesting business, but also strategically, the club might deny this, but the way they use the media to build up these kind of transfers, you know, we're already hearing about Trent two years before it even happens. I remember the Mbappe one that's been going on for goodness knows how long, even while he was at psg. They know how to move those levers quite well to get what they want.

Guillermo Ray (28:01)

Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I feel that it's crazy. I remember a piece from Dermot Corrigan about the Spanish outlet covers on the Real Madrid targets. It's like the usual practice or the usual way of doing things for real. They usually lick their targets, but at the same time they act with a lot of secrecy, like privacy. There is a lot of secretism. It's an ayurmetic club. So they have been working for almost two years on this signing and nobody really knows how advanced it was a few months ago. And what is clear is that it's a contrasted way of doing things. They have done it a lot of times already, like, for example, with Jude Bellingham. I think that they use their current players, like for example, in this case, Jude Bellingham, to convince and to act as ambassadors for the next signings. And I think it's a really interesting way of doing things and it has been proved successful, as I already said.

David Ornstein (29:12)

Yeah, yeah.

IO Akimolere (29:13)

I got to say, Trent and Jude are really good friends. So, yeah, I can see what you mean. Has Jude been Agent Jude, as they say. But, Phil, let's just put ourselves in the shoes of the player himself. Phil, you know You've had a good career. Real Madrid come calling. Neither of us will know what that feels like. But I mean, this is a very hard offer to refuse.

Phil Hay (29:30)

It is. And also an easier offer for Real Madrid to make than most other clubs in Europe. I mean, they're clever with this in the way they were with Mbappe. The talk about what goes on in the media there made me think of Rodri as well. That was one that appeared out of the blue before he did his ACL as a future target for Real Madrid. And they seem to be very good at setting the hairs running, knowing that the stories will stick and it will become part of the narrative. And it's not that that necessarily forces transfers, but it does make them quite difficult to resist once players or clubs feel like they're trying to. To be seduced. And I mean, from the point of view of Trent Alexander Arnold, it is a big move. It is a mega move from. He knows what he's going to there, he knows what the squad is like, he knows what the attention will be like at Real Madrid. And I think it says a lot about Real that you can convince players like Mbappe and Alexander Arnold to have the courage to stick it out and take a free transfer knowing fine, well, that it'll be very unpopular at the club that they're leaving. They have that clout and they have that pool and that's why they can do it.

Guillermo Ray (30:35)

Yeah, definitely. I think that also from the coaching staff point of view, I think it's worth saying that they don't only see Alexander Arnold as a normal defender. They don't see him like a normal right back.

Host (30:50)

We.

Guillermo Ray (30:50)

We shouldn't consider this signing as okay. They are signing Dani Carvajal's replacement. That's why it's also important because at Real Madrid after Tony Kroos departure, I think there have been obviously the feeling that something is needed in the midfield, in the building up. And with this player, Carlo Ancelotti's staff consider that Real Madrid will improve their building up. And also in set pieces, it's all focused on the offensive side because they know that in terms of defensive skills, maybe he lacks, I would say some skills, but still he could be a really powerful asset in, in offensive terms.

IO Akimolere (31:37)

Yeah, yeah, very good. And I guess that's also why Liverpool are reluctant or sad to let him go because he offers so much to the team. Anyway, Guillermo, I know you've got to leave us, but thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate your insight on this.

Guillermo Ray (31:48)

Always a pleasure. Bye.

IO Akimolere (31:54)

Well, Next, we'll discuss where Trent's departure leaves Liverpool in their negotiations with both Virgil van Dijk and Mohamed Sal.

David Ornstein (32:03)

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with I.O. accamulere.

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David Ornstein (34:09)

This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamalara.

IO Akimolere (34:14)

While Trent Alexander Arnold's future appears to be away from Liverpool, we need to talk about the contract of both Virgil Van Dijk and Mo Salah. James, what impact do you think this will have on those contract negotiations? Because you know, Simon Hughes, on a previous podcast we did basically thought that this could be a situation where Liverpool lose three of their best players potentially.

Host (34:37)

Personally, I don't think it'll come to that. In terms of the impact, I'm not sure that there really is one because I think throughout, throughout these kind of sagas, the Trent one has always stood out as very different to the other two for numerous reasons, not least the fact that we knew that Real Madrid's pursuit was always there with Trent and the dynamic was always, was always different there with, you know, with Van Dijk and Salah. Obviously they're in the twilight years of their career. It's been complicated because we know that from a business standpoint there's a reluctance to dish out massive salaries and long term contracts to players who, you know, obviously Salah will be turning 33 this summer, Van Dijk would be 34. So those discussions have dragged on. Yeah, if you'd said to me in August we'd be sat here nearly April still discussing it, I'd have said, nah, no chance. Surely we'll have clarity by then. But no, I still feel that there's a confidence that those two players will end up staying put. I think we've probably reached a point where there's obviously offers on the table for both of them and they're having to wait up what else is out there, what their other options are before making a definitive decision.

David Ornstein (35:51)

Yeah.

IO Akimolere (35:51)

Phil, does this make this tricky for that Van Dijk and Salah negotiations?

Phil Hay (35:57)

It's a great question. I guess one thing that it does do is plant the seed in their minds that when this season ends, and I'm assuming here that Alexander Arnold is going, Liverpool will be instantly weaker, albeit with the summer transfer window ahead of them. The first thing that happens is Alexander Arnold goes out the door. So that that may influence them. But there is another angle to this, which is what are the alternative offers or the interest that Van Dijk and Salah actually have? As it stands, it's Real Madrid for Alexander Arnold and that's essentially the biggest move out there. You know, it's a gimme really. And as a free agent it kind of makes a lot of sense for him. With Van Dijk And Salah, it's not to say that when push comes to shove Liverpool won't end up representing the best option. I can see that happening. Salah, I'm unconvinced about. I've got to say I feel like, like it could still be. Still be him exiting after Alexander Arnold Van Dijk not so sure. I think like James I could see a situation in which he does stay, you know. But if they do all leave that's potentially three huge holes to fill irrespective of what the club intend to do in the summer. And if I was slot I'd be quite concerned about that to say the least.

IO Akimolere (37:07)

Yeah for sure. James, let's throw ahead to the summer. Let's potentially see if there are replacements for Trent. Alexander Arnold who've been saying, you know, potentially that this has been in the works for a while and technically Liverpool won't be surprised that he's leaving. What kind of names have been thrown about? I've seen Frimpong being thrown about but I mean it's all speculation at this point.

Host (37:27)

Yeah, I think Frimpong is an interesting one because certainly he's exciting, isn't he? As an attacking force you'd say certainly more of a wing back than a, than a fullback. So it's just whether how the dynamic, how slot and Richard Hughes see that potentially working out. Now Conor Bradley again is such a talented young footballer that they've got incredibly high hopes for. Yet the concern with him is he has now had a fair few muscle injuries which of course happens quite a lot to young players and their bodies are still growing and adapting to the intensity of top level football. But it's a big leap to think to yourself right, well Conor Bradley is now ready to become the starting right back playing every three or four days at a really high level as Trent has done for so long. So I think Liverpool are going to have to invest substantially in another right back to come in and compete with him. Of course they do have other options in terms of Gomez and Quansa that's played there but they're not. They're center backs who are versatile. I think you can't. There's no way that Liverpool could not replace him but of course the outlay for that will have to be balanced against what else they need to do this summer because it's going to be a busy one. You look at the left back situation, that's an area that needs reinforcement. Even if Van Dijk stays and signs his contract there's a strong argument they need another center half of the center forward with. If it's not Isaac because maybe the price tag is too high then who else do they go for and potentially reinvest the funds from selling Darwin Nunes. You look at someone like Ryan Gravenberg who has clearly felt the effects I'd say over the last month of being played week in, week out and you know, you need probably greater backup for him. So yeah there's, there's a lot on the agenda. It's not as if you know, you just replace Trent. If Van Dijk and Salah both stay and of course if van Dijk or Salah or worst case scenario both go then what a challenge that is. You're effectively trying to replace the irreplaceable.

IO Akimolere (39:39)

Yeah Phil, I'm just thinking how fickle football potentially can be because look, I mean respect to Arnold Slot. You've got a team now in his first year of being with them who are 12 points at the top of the Premier League looking to win the Premier League. Almost in pole position to win the Premier League. Things are forgotten quite easily when you're lifting up the Premier League trophy. As a Liverpool fan, you know, does that quieten some of the noise?

Phil Hay (40:02)

Oh it does. I don't think there'll be much noise around Slot himself. I mean he's handled the transition from Klopp to, to his era brilliantly. I mean that hasn't really been any since the season of the Klopp legacy on his shoulders or breathing down his neck. And if he has felt that at any point it's not been obvious to us on, on the outside but at the same time he did inherit a good short term hand from Klopp. There's no doubt about that. It doesn't mean that Liverpool should won the title this season and I think he's gone beyond what any of us anticipated. But they had the strength to be competitive. No doubt about that. What I think we're seeing now is, is I guess you could say the downside of the, the inheritance from Klopp. Three massive names who might be about to say adios and who will take an awful lot of replacing. And it's again to repeat myself from, from a week ago. It's, it's that weird scenario where you might find that year two for slot is going to be harder than year one which is unfortunate because the title is something to be built on, something that, that should be built on. But in the midst of this I don't think think when it comes to the squad building or what happens in the summer, I don't think if there are fingers to be pointed, any of them are going to be pointed at slot because he is basically blameless in the way this is all shaped up.

IO Akimolere (41:17)

Yeah. And I guess if Liverpool do in the Premier League, which is looking incredibly likely, James, he will have a lot more say in building and you scored in his own image, if that makes sense.

Host (41:27)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think picking up what Phil said, I think it's probably suited on a slot the fact that he is a bit detached from that process with the, with the contract renewals because it's just meant that it's just created a lot less noise and less of a distraction over the course of this season because he's just been able to bat them away by saying that's not, you know, that's not, not my, not my remit. I'm a head coach. I'm focused on, you know, coming up with game plans and training the players on a, on a daily basis. So. So yeah, he would obviously have an input in recruitment and all those discussions would be going on. I don't, you know, contingency plans will have been drawn up already for all eventuality in the same way as I think it's been pretty clear for a while how the Trent saga was likely to end. It's not like they've been suddenly kind of caught out by the news. And the same with Van Dijk and Salah. They will have contingency plans drawn up. If it's a big if at the minute they have to go and replace them. But you always want to reinforce from a position of strength, don't you? And you can't get much stronger than Premier League champions. And I think the biggest thing for Liverpool now is to ensure having been so good for so long this season, you don't want to limp over the line, you know, nine games to go, 12 points clear. You want to do it in style. And it would be a real shame if the uncertainty around players and potential exits of Trent and whoever else kind of overshadow what is shaping up to be, you know, an incredible bit of glory that Slot has masterminded in his first season.

Phil Hay (42:55)

One of the critical things as similar surely has to be how much Liverpool, Liverpool can pull in from the players who they want to go. You mentioned Diaz, Darwin, Nunes obviously Kelleherd I would assume is just about at the end of his tether when it comes to not being first choice. There is for all the, you know, that Nunes in particular seems to be regarded as a bit of a liability. There is the potential of pulling quite a bit of money from those three.

Host (43:18)

100%. Yeah. I mean there was obviously some contact from Saudi in January regarding Darwin Nunes and I think if that kind of comes up again in the summer, that could well prove really, really helpful for Liverpool in terms of the rebuilding that needs to go on because there was talk of 60 to 70 million. Now, I think it goes without saying a European club isn't going to pay that kind of fee for Darwin Nunes. And you're right, you know, Diaz, there's a lot of noise around Diaz. Last summer, Barcelona, you know, interest from Saudi as well. I think with Diaz, you know, at 28, he's actually had a decent season, Diaz. But you're probably at that point, two years left on his deal. You have to make a decision. Do you renew his contract or do you offload him this summer? And of course, you know, they got Gagpo. It was done really well. Well, wide left when called upon. And you're right, Kelahone, one year left. He's wanted to leave the last couple of summers, but there isn't a better second choice goalkeeper around than him. You know, Liverpool should be banking 20 to 30 million for him, I think. No problem this summer.

IO Akimolere (44:21)

Yeah, for sure. All right, gents, let's leave it there. Phil James, also David and Guillermo from earlier. Thanks for joining us. Thank you as well for listening to the podcast. Adam. Adam Laventhal will be with you tomorrow. We'll catch you soon.

David Ornstein (44:33)

You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroot and Jay Beale. The executive producer was Ayley Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

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