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- [00:00]
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JP Morgan Chase Representative
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Football Analyst
Subject to credit approval.
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JP Morgan Chase Representative
The Athletic the.
- [02:29]
Football Analyst
First prize of springtime is heading home.
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Chase Representative
To Anfield Liverpool for a record 10th time. Liverpool as if by right Liverpool again.
- [02:41]
Ayo Akimolere
Carabao cup winners Jurgen Klopp says winning the EFL cup with Kids on Sunday was the most special, special trophy of his career. So does the talent factory mean a future without Klopp looks a little less daunting for whoever takes his place? And how will the decision to trust in youth impact Liverpool's pursuit of three more titles this season? I'm Ayo Akimolere. Welcome to the Athletic Football Podcast. In with us we've got the Athletics football football correspondent David Ornstein as well as our Liverpool reporter James Pierce. James, let's start with you. I mean in the words of the famous who song, I guess the kids are all right, aren't they? Liverpool won their 10th League cup on Sunday. Just explain the significance of this one in particular because Jurgen Klopp thought, you know, this was very special, wasn't it?
- [03:35]
Football Analyst
Yeah, I think it's all about the circumstances. I think probably some people will see Jurgen Klopp's post match comments talking about this being the most special trophy of his career and think, well hang on a minute. You know you've, for a start you've, you know you've, you've won the Bundesliga with Dortmund. You know, you've, you've won the Champions League. You were the man who ended the 30 year weight for a Premier League title at Liverpool. But I think we know what he was getting at because it's all about the context and the circumstances surrounding this. And to think that Liverpool went into the final without 11 members of the, of the senior squad due to injury. Then you know the horrible sight of Ryan Gravenberg being stretched off in the first half so that then you're up to a dozen members missing. And then when you look at, you know, the, the inexperience and the youth of the players, he, he pretty boldly turned to as the afternoon grew on. Yeah, you thought, well surely common sense dictates that Chelsea, when they're throwing on 150 million quids worth of talent off the bench, they have to be the ones that are going to finish the stronger and Liverpool will ultimately be found wanting. But yeah, it was a, a real Herculean effort, you know, epitomized by their inspirational leader in Virgil Van Dijk. Because those young boys who will, whatever they go on achieve in the rest of their career, they will never ever forget that Sunday afternoon at Wembley.
- [04:56]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, I want to talk about some of those young players and David, I will bring you in in just a second. We just got to indulge James for just a little bit longer on this topic. But you know, as someone who's followed Liverpool for Many, many years when you see players like Bobby Clark, James McConnell, Jaden, Dan Quanza warming up to come onto the pitch in such a pivotal game, what, what feelings goes through your head at that moment in time? Because this is a vital, vital game.
- [05:22]
Football Analyst
Yeah, I think it was more like it was a sense of wow. He really, the manager really is bold and brave here because I think, I think a lot of other managers would have, would have stuck with tiring senior players and thought, well, I, you know, I'd rather have a shattered McAllister or a Gagpo out there than turn to players that are so unproven. Because I think you can't underestimate the significance of stepping out in front of nearly 90, 000 people in a major final. I mean, you know, Jaden Dance, that story is just extraordinary. You know, he wasn't even training with the senior squad, you know, five, six weeks ago, you know, he came off the bench for two minutes in midweek to make his senior debut against Luton. And then suddenly he's leading the line for Liverpool in a, in a, in a major final. And you know, it's, you go through it. You're right. You know, McConnell Quanza's come from absolutely nowhere this season. You know, same with Bradley. You know, in terms of. Both Quanza and Bradley have really grasped opportunities that have come their way due to of course those injuries to Matip and Alexander Arnold. And then, you know, Bobby Clark, you know, had loads of loan interest in him, you know, in January, but Liverpool were like, you know, we, we may well need him as cover and you know, that has proved that to be worked out perfectly for all parties because I think he's, he's made seven appearances for Liverpool since the turn of the year and just seems to have grown in stature with, with every. Every time. So yeah, it was, you could see you, you know, you, you would have to say it was something of a risk playing the kids. But I think that's the thing with Klopp. He. He's always shown the courage of his convictions and you know, ultimately on the day, you know, fortune favored the brave.
- [07:05]
Ayo Akimolere
David, I want to go into this idea of an understanding a bit more about academy recruitment because, you know, look at all these young players coming on for Liverpool. I mean, was this a win for academy coaching or more academy recruitment? And can you just give us an insight as to how Liverpool operate within their policy around academy recruitment?
- [07:25]
JP Morgan Chase Representative
The short answer is both recruitment and coaching. IO but this isn't just an overnight success or a flash in the Pan or how we've seen with maybe Louis Van Gaal at Manchester United when he introduced kids some years ago, that was out of necessity, not out of desire. And the proof was in the pudding because when players became fit again, those youngsters were nowhere to be seen largely and aren't at Manchester United anymore. You get a very different feeling with what's going on at Liverpool. And I don't just want to single out Van Gaal and United. There are a number of clubs who, who you could accuse of not having enough faith in young players. I mean, ironically, it was Alan Hansen of Liverpool Legend who said, you can't win anything with kids, but you absolutely can, evidently. And what Liverpool are seeing now are the fruits of a very long and diligent labor. And we've got to credit Alex Inglethorp, who heads up the Academy operation. I believe he was actually bought to the club by Brendan Rogers. And so a nod to the foundations that were starting to be laid under Fenway Sports Group a long time back. And they clearly identified that getting it right at that level will have fantastic repercussions further down the line. There was a really good interview with Alex Inglethorp in the Telegraph by Jamie Carragher, himself a youth product of Liverpool. And he talks really interestingly about a limitation on salaries at that age group. I think it's, correct me if I'm wrong, maximum of £50,000 a year, a limitation on car engine sizes to 1.3 liters. And that's mainly for safety, but also for the impression it sends out. And he says that if he sees a Range Rover in the Academy car park, he'll send it next door. They're very conscious about if they come in in some really expensive watch. And it's not so much about those possessions, it's the message that it sends out. It's the character, as he describes it, the behaviors and the values that are being exhibited because you're on show, you're being looked at by the senior pros and staff, and even more so now that Liverpool have moved to a new training ground where everybody is in the same place. Arguably, the most standout thing that Alex Inglethorp said in that interview was that they've done some analysis inside the club and they believe that they have around £300 million worth of young talent at their disposal. They've not been bought in at massive expense, certainly not at the expense that some other clubs have tried to do. And they are sitting on a gold mine. They are being looked at by Many other clubs across the Premier League and the world as the example. So are Manchester City and others, because they've done really well too. But some clubs are just nowhere near this now and they're trying to embark upon it. They're going to be investing in their young players, especially pertinent post Brexit, with some of the regulations that limit the influx of players from Europe before the age of 18. And it seems that Liverpool, like with many things, were ahead of the curve. But what we're looking at now is really the gold standard. And Liverpool, their supporters and everybody connected with the club will be delighted. And that's why I even heard staff around the club saying yesterday that this is the most important or satisfying trophy of, of the entire era. Not because of it being the League cup and being Klopp's final season, but because of what it meant in terms of the young players and the circumstances around it all. And when you look at it in that context, as opposed to that headline, it's understandable.
- [11:22]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, I was just thinking about the future of English football and yeah, I mean, not to say there's a positive to come out of Brexit, but for me, in terms of the development of young British players, which is something the Premier League has always been criticized for in terms of giving them first team chances, you're seeing now a birth of young English players coming through, not necessarily players like the likes of Fabregas, for instance, that would have come to Arsenal in place of players like this. This must be befitting for the future England squad, but also the Premier League in general.
- [11:52]
JP Morgan Chase Representative
David Eppp was brought into the Premier League some years ago. A big focus on academies and trying to get the homegrown talent right after multiple failures at international level, senior and junior. You could even say the women's side coming up at the same time too. That was never going to produce instant and immediate success. And even after that investment and after the building of the infrastructure and the processes inside the clubs, still, the English clubs were not doing so well compared to their continental rivals. I look and speak to people in, say, Portugal and there are platoons of these young players coming out of Sporting Lisbon, Porto, Benfica. You see the same in Spain at places like Atletico Madrid and Barcelona. France is an absolute hotbed of talent. It's regarded as one of the two key areas for youth development in the world, along with Brazil, which brings me on to South America. But finally England is starting to catch up. Britain, you could say, because look at some of the Scottish players that have come to the Premier League academies in recent years. And the quality of work, which very rarely gets credited to English coaches, English clubs and systems, British coaches, clubs and systems, and administrators as well, is now coming to the boil. The cream is rising and it's brilliant to see it's not going to stop being competitive because Europe will fight back. One thing to also say is everybody's branded this solely as a Liverpool academy success. It's not many of those players have come from other clubs from the efl. So credit to the English pyramid system, which is a big subject of conversation at the moment because of this new deal for football and the Premier League redistribution. But I think a word is deserved and praise for some of those clubs that have produced some of those boys we saw at Wembley yesterday who are now in Liverpool colors. And Liverpool have taken them on really impressively so far.
- [13:51]
Football Analyst
What's enabled Liverpool to be such an attractive proposition is, as David touched on earlier, it's not a case of offering untold riches to these young players and their families. It's very much about offering a pathway. And that pathway simply doesn't exist at some other elite clubs because whether that's, you know, the structure isn't right. They don't have a manager or coaching staff who are prepared to, to kind of really show that trust and faith in, in young talent and persevere with them. So I think, you know, that whenever you speak to agents and, and, and families around the academy when I'm down at Kirby, they always say the same that, you know, that was the big lure for them of Liverpool was that, yeah, of course the badge and the history and the tradition. But they believe the kids will get an opportunity. You know, someone like Trent Alexander Arnold's been the poster boy for so long but now know suddenly there's all these other examples, you know, you look at, you know, Curtis Jones of course, like Trent was out injured on, on Sunday. You know, even, you know, we talked about the five really young rookies who were involved in the final. But Quavin Kelleher, you know, was brought over, you know, as a young teenager from, from Ireland and you know, he's been an absolute revelation. I'm not sure there's a better backup keeper around than Quavin Kelleher and it has been a real kind of. I think they've been very clever in terms of the way they've gone about that recruitment because it's not just a case of cherry picking the best kids from, from other clubs. And yeah, they've had to kind of Pivot off the back of the Brexit changes. You know, Stefan Basetic who again was one of the injured players out on the weekend, he was like the last of the kind of the pre Brexit signings. They could bring him in from Spain for I think £250,000. And so since then there's been a much greater focus on, on the young English talent. But yeah, when you think, I think Bobby Clark, even if all the various add ons are ticked, you know, will end up costing Liverpool £1.5 million. You know, I think McConnell was 200 grand from Sunderland. You know, you've got, you know, Dan's has been with the club since the age of eight, Quanza from the age of five. So that's the other thing they've been very good at is getting it right at pre academy level. You know, Alex Inglethorpe had been fortunate enough to sit down with him many times over is what, 12 years now at Liverpool and he has really changed that approach in terms of how they recruit at the age of six and seven because you know, a lot of the kids we've seen in the club era have been at the club that long. He said he felt there was too much of an obsession with getting young kids in who were technically gifted. And he said, you know, we, we've got a castanet further afield, more looking more underprivileged communities. He felt the academy when he walked in was too middle class, too white was how he described it. And so that across the board. So when you, you're bringing these kids through from a young age and then when, when you then need to complement it with elite talent, you've got that pathway you can show parents, you know, that all adds together to be ultimately the fruits of all that labor. Coming together on the biggest of stages at Wembley on Sunday.
- [16:58]
JP Morgan Chase Representative
You'Re listening to the Athletic Football podcast with IO Akinwalere.
- [17:05]
Chase Representative
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Football Analyst
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- [19:26]
Football Analyst
Can you create in football stories which definitely nobody will ever forget? It's so true, it's so difficult because this happened before. This happened before they wanted then they did it there this tonight. If you find if you find the same story with academy players coming on against the top top top side and still winning it.
- [19:49]
Ayo Akimolere
I never heard of no rest for Liverpool. Really straight back to work ahead of their recent Caribou cup win. What they're playing Southampton in the FA cup fifth round on Wednesday. With a very depleted team, how is Klopp going to manage this one?
- [20:05]
Football Analyst
James well he did, he did. He did say towards the end of his press conference at Wembley he said I don't know where we're going to find 11 players from for Wednesday night because it is a quick turnaround. And yes, they enjoyed the celebrations on Sunday. But even speaking to Andy Robertson in the Mix zone after he was like, we're back in at Kirby on Monday morning. You know, it's. There is, you know, they flew back from, from Luton, you know, no, no big party or anything like that because there's just still too much to go out. And yeah, it's going to be another very youthful lineup against Southampton, no doubt about it. I mean there was a couple of other really gifted kids on the bench who didn't get on in, in Kumas and Trey Ernie who they signed from, from Leicester back in September and it wouldn't surprise me if they were involved. Cade Gordon, another talented young player who's had issues with injuries the last couple of years. He wasn't in the squad on Sunday but I think he'll be part of the setup against Southampton. You know, they're waiting to find out the extent of what they believe is ankle ligament damage to Gravenberg after that horrible challenge from Caicedo. And even Wataro Endo who I thought was absolutely sensational in the day. He, he came through the mix zone on crutches with his left boot, left foot in a protective boot. So the only bit of positive news was probably looking at the way Darwin Nunes celebrated that triumph. He can't be far away from playing again the way that he, he, he didn't look particularly injured when he hurtled hurdled the, the advertising hoardings to, to get involved in the, in the celebration. So yeah, obviously getting Nunes and, and Salah back and supposal is not too far away. But it's a big ask. Yeah. Because you know, it's not just the physical exertions but the mental, I think fatigue as well. Because yeah, I mean it's almost unprecedented to think that you're in a position where you could potentially have 13, 14, even senior squad players missing in midweek.
- [21:58]
JP Morgan Chase Representative
I think we'll be seeing a very strong Liverpool still though we know especially at Anfield, the groundswell of sort of emotion around the Jurgen Klopp departure but also the adrenaline that that now full and bigger stadium brings. It kind of rises Liverpool up and, and they will still have some very good more senior players and there will be some more minutes given to these promising prospects and talents which will be fascinating in its own right because some may point out that you can come on at Wembley as amazing as it is, but that's one occasion. But can you keep doing it playing two or three times a week at that age? Their bodies are still developing environmentally. It's a completely new challenge with the crowd and the different opponents and things and in most players development there would be some, some setbacks there. There would be some bumps in the road. You've got the chance to make mistakes but not really when Liverpool are going for these four trophies. And a really interesting point maybe I'll get James's view on this is what is next for a lot of these players who might want more regular game time. Okay, not the very youngest ones because there's still time but somebody like Kelleher. There was interest in him I think from the likes of Wolves and Nottingham Forest in the summer. A lot of suggestions around many people that you speak to in the game is that he'll have to move because he's a first choice. He's becoming a first choice goalkeeper and while Alisson's at Liverpool he. It's not going to be there and he's what 25 now. Maybe young for a goalkeeper but he'll have his own ambitions and a number of the others if we look historically at Liverpool they did make sales from academy level. Whether it be somebody like Rhian Brewster as he came through. I know he'd previously been at Chelsea players like Dominic Solanke, Jordan ib, Harry Wilson and so on. So that I guess will be the next phase of this a little bit further down the line.
- [23:54]
Football Analyst
Yeah it's, it is going to be interesting to see what happens next. I think, I think you're right. I would be surprised if Liverpool are able to keep hold of Kelleher for another season. I just think he, he would have gone last summer I think if the right offer had come in. But you know there was a lot of interest. There was loan offers that Liverpool were never ever going to agree to because it just made no sense financially. And then of course I think There was a £15 million bid from, from Forest in January that again was you know, far too late in the window and didn't come close to meeting their valuation. I think, I think Liverpool view him as probably worth double that. But yeah I think there's, there is an acceptance. You can only keep hold of someone like him so long. He is yeah, as you said David, 25. He wants to play regularly. You know, Klopp has kind of used the domestic cups as kind of, you know to dangle the carrot and hope that there was enough kind of big occasions there to convince him that, that he still had a future at the club. But it's yeah he, he would be the kind of the most obvious one you'd think in terms adding to that kind of you know, impressive, you know, amount of cash that's been generated from players who have emerged from the academy and they've, they've developed. I think, you know, it's, I think Alex Inglethorp said himself it's around 160 million pound on his watch that they've generated from sales and that figure's only going to grow. But I think the exciting thing is it's also, it's also going to save Liverpool a lot in terms of the transfer market. When you look at the emergence of someone like Gerald Kwanzaa this season, you know, there was a clamor to bring in another center back there was when, when Joel Matip was suffered that ACL injury and was ruled out for the season, it was well, they have to go and buy in January. And then suddenly Quanza put together this, this amazing sequence of performances where you thought, well they don't because you know, why would you want someone else blocking his pathway? And the same with Connor Bradley, you know, there's been a lot of talk that they needed to go and get a proper understudy for Alexander Arnold. Especially with the, the kind of, the growing belief that Alexander Arnold will become, you know, a kind of bonafide center midfielder rather than this hybrid role he's been playing. But you look at Connor Bradley and you think, well, how much would you pay for Connor Bradley if he was playing somewhere else and you were looking to, to bring him in? So yeah, it, I think it all does add up that you kind of think there's going to be some tumultuous change at Liverpool this summer with, with the end of the Klopp era. Yet that does, you know, the, the, the, the caliber of the talent there does bode well for the future in terms of trying to adjust to that, that adaptation. Because let's not forget Liverpool with their self sustaining business model that is absolutely huge in terms of generating that revenue that then can be reinvested back into the squad.
- [26:38]
JP Morgan Chase Representative
James just took the words out my mouth. IO you and I have spoken so much about financial fair play, profitability.
- [26:43]
Ayo Akimolere
I was literally going to go there as well. We're in sync here.
- [26:46]
JP Morgan Chase Representative
I like it. It's remarkable. We've got a sixth sense. It's a key issue in football right now and in, in the Premier League in particular. And so many clubs are looking over their shoulder on how they can balance the books and who they need to sell to remain compliant and they're searching for academy players who might provide that pure profit. Well, Liverpool have got it in spades. They've really become one of, if not the most impressive recruitment operation. Which is ironic because for a period it was derided as this transfer committee. It became a bit of a laughingstock, but both ins and outs and you could say they've not sort of replicated the Coutinho level, but I think nobody's replicating that level very easily in terms of what his sale brought in. And they have spent quite heavily. A lot of people were pointing that out yesterday in terms of Alisson and Van Dijk. Van Dijk being a key player in, in that match. He didn't come for cheap by any means, but just in terms of if they do need to bring in some revenues from player sales, then they're spoiled for choice. And that's a position that many clubs would like to be in and that should serve them really well. And crucially with these young players as well. When we're looking to the next topic, we're going to talk about in terms of the manager, head coach and sporting director, the transition at Manchester United post Ferguson and you could even say to an extent at Arsenal post Wenger, I think you were looking around for, you know, who's gonna lead this generation, who's going to be part of it. There's a lot of concerns in the squad aging or wrong profiles. Is it a poison chalice for the next manager to come in? It proved to be with David Moyes and also Unai Emery to an extent. Well, you could argue that as tough an act as Jurgen Klopp will be to follow and as big a shoes as they will be to fill, it's a really exciting time because the rebuild has already started and there'll be many coaches, managers out there who can't wait to get their hands on some of the quality and potential at their disposal.
- [28:53]
Ayo Akimolere
James, I mean, yeah, this sort of feel good factor and yes, there are lots of injuries and you still got senior players still to come back, but Liverpool have still got the Europa League. Still 12 or so games in the Premier League to go before the end of the season is the emotion of Jurgen Klopp leaving. Allow it to feel like there's something really special happening at Liverpool now. And I want to, you know, obviously temper excitement, but with the way the cup was won, does there feel like there's something romantic in the air right now at Liverpool?
- [29:27]
Football Analyst
Yeah, there does. I think you only had to see, you know, that that classy gesture where when they were going up the steps, Van Dijk saying, you know, I want you to lift this trophy with me. They are all doing it for Klopp, you know that I think, I think when the announcement was made at the back end of January, there was this feeling of which way is it going to go? Because you know, for a lot of people it was a bolt out the blue and it was a case of well, you know, is it going to be a distraction? Is it going to be like one of the, you know, a shock to the system that that potentially derails things? Or is it going to bring everyone closer together and really galvanize them to think, right, this era ends on a high. And it's certainly been the latter so far, especially in such difficult circumstances with you know, one kind of punishing injury setback after another. I think they've played seven games since Klopp's announcement. They've won the, won six of them, you know, if you include Sunday. So I think also speaking to the players afterwards on Sunday, there's a feeling that this, to win a trophy in that manner against the odds really. I'd say with, with the absentees, with the kids involved, that should act as a, as the perfect springboard now for, for bigger prizes. You know, let's be honest, you know, the Carabao cup, as special as it was, you know, that Klopp talked about, the other three would all mean more in the grand scheme of things. Of course, you know, the Premier League title by far and away the biggest one they're chasing. So yeah, there is a special feeling. I think you can see that, that togetherness, that resilience, that unity, just that rendition of you never walk alone with all of them linking arms in front of the Liverpool end was, was pretty spine tingling on Sunday and yeah, they just need to get some bodies back. That's the thing. Spirit and resilience will carry you so far. But when, when you've got the kind of punishing schedule Liverpool have got coming up and let's not forget there's a little date with Manchester City at Anfield that's, that's only a, a couple of weeks away now.
- [31:22]
Ayo Akimolere
Isn't that straight after the Europa League match as well? Which is gonna be a tough one.
- [31:26]
Football Analyst
That's why you know, there is, there's no real time to savor it because it is, it is Southampton. Then it's Forest away which you know is, is not the easiest place to go to. And then you've got, you know, you've got Sparta Prague away in the Europa League and then three days later, man City coming to Anfield for what could potentially be a title decider. So it feels like there's something special brewing. But you know, there's still an awful long way to go before you. We can, we can say that there'll be the the dream finale to the Klopp era.
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What else?
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- [33:09]
JP Morgan Chase Representative
You're listening to the Athletic Football Podcast with IO Akimolera.
- [33:13]
Ayo Akimolere
David, you alluded to it earlier, but yeah, let's talk about what the future's looking like or shaping up to look like for Liverpool. And we've spoken about Xabi Alonso. We did a podcast on it last week and just interested from your perspective and what you're hearing, who else is being sort of thrown in the net as perspective names really for. For Jurgen Klopps as Jurgen Klopp's successor.
- [33:34]
JP Morgan Chase Representative
There's no doubt that Xabi Alonso will be high in Liverpool's thinking and that's clear and has been well reported. It wouldn't surprise you if there's been some sort of back channel communication as is the way with all of these situations. But they won't want to do anything formal to disrupt him as he's going for his own history at Bayer Leverkusen. I do think it's worth tempering a bit of the excitement because we speak to multiple people who suggest this isn't a foregone conclusion. The plan was always for him to stay one more year at Bayer Leverkusen. We don't know that he's going to rip that up to leave for Liverpool or even for Bayern Munich. And that brings us on to Bayern who clearly have him high in their thinking too. And I go, going to go extremely Strongly for him, by the looks of it. They usually get what they want. Not always. Even Tottenham beat them in the race for Dragus in. And then there's this lingering question about Real Madrid and whether he may hold out for them. Whether it be this summer unlikely because Carlo Ancelotti signed a new contract, but that's only worth the paper it's written on or the year after if. If Carlo Ancelotti was to move on. So he's in a really strong position. Jabby Alonso. On Saturday evening, Sam Wallace of the Telegraph revealed in his understanding that there are some backup options, including Reuben Amarim of Sporting Lisbon doing a really good job there. I think he's only in his late 30s, so he's young himself and obviously has no managerial experience on these shores. And also Julian Nagelsmann was mentioned within that report. Now, I think they both perform very well on the data and that's why they'll be in Liverpool's thinking as potential candidates. But there will be issues around both of them and many other possibilities. By the way, Reuben Amarin's got a release clause in his contract. It was I think a year ago when Chelsea spoke to him up in the 20 millions of euros. Now, I understand that it's 10 million euros, which people might feel is low, especially if it was a player signing, but that is high for a managerial appointment, whether we like it or not. And that's a potential issue in this. Julen Nagelsmann is managing Germany until the end of the euros, which also isn't ideal because that's even later in terms of Xabi Alonso. And Ruben Amarin also concerns not just how it went at Bayern Munich and some of the reporting around him, but Liverpool have played his sides before and, and they've done away with him quite easily. And so maybe there's some technical concerns as well, taking nothing away from, you know, how well he's regarded in the industry. And there will be more. You know, we've seen Thomas Frank has been one of the names that's been mentioned on, on multiple occasions as somebody else that is impressing many of the top clubs. Ange Postecoglou was one that was mentioned at the beginning, but I'm not aware of anything on that front. So Liverpool are embarking upon this process and they will be doing this groundwork, which is why some of this is coming out. It will be largely data led and that's when Will Spearman, Liverpool's head of research, comes into the conversation and it will be meticulous and diligent and they'll know the ramifications of this. They've got to get it right. But on that note, we've got to wind back and talk about the sporting director because that's likely to be the first appointment. I hear that they would like a direction of travel pretty soon, maybe even early March. Whether that's an appointment or just they know where they're going. And you know, we've reported on Michael Edwards having been approached by FSG Mike Gordon on a phone call in which he politely declined the opportunity to return to Liverpool or take an even bigger role within fsg. But has John Henry as principal owner finished scratching that itch? Could he still go for Michael Edwards? I don't know. I suspect they've got to either make a quick decision or Michael Edwards would have to make a quick decision or Liverpool FSG move on. And there have been multiple names in the frame. Simon Hughes on the Athletic reported a couple of them. Ricky Massara, formerly at AC Milan and a really impressive young option at ogc Nice, who seemingly hasn't been linked with roles at Manchester United on behalf of Ineos. And there are loads of others too because this sporting director world seems to be getting bigger and bigger and I think what Liverpool will want to be doing now is doing some groundwork on the manager so that as and when they appoint this sporting director, they've got options to put in front of him. It's almost like he's able to hit the ground running. But everything I hear is that the sporting director will lead the managerial process from Liverpool. Not something that is steered out of Boston. Despite the fact that we, we know that Theo Epstein is coming back into fsg, very influential on the Red Sox and plenty more besides to kind of advise on the Liverpool process. So of course Boston will be influential in the appointments, but then it's going to be taken on, on the ground here. And this is a decision that is going to have years and maybe generations of ramifications. So we can't underestimate it.
- [38:43]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, for sure. James Funnel World on this. Then whoever does come in and whether, whatever that structure looks like, you'd like to think an enticing part of the future of Liverpool is where we started. The youth, the young players that are coming through and an infrastructure that looks to be set in place for someone to take over when that success comes is a whole different conversation. But that's got to be attractive for any potential new manager.
- [39:09]
Football Analyst
Yeah, I believe so. And I think that's why, you know, I think if you're Zabi Alonso, who for me is still by far and away the outstanding candidate to take over in terms of ticking all the boxes. And personally, I would be surprised if he picked Bayern Munich ahead of Liverpool. And I think, you know, just from a purely, like, common sense perspective in terms of if he, if he does go on and win the Bundesliga with Leverkusen, you know, with, you know, I think he's got a superior team to Bayern. You go to Bayern, you know, you're almost expected to win. Where's the. You got the pressure and the expectation, but without also having to embark on a bit. A bit of an overhaul there. So I think as much as it must be in the back of his mind and anyone else's, that do I really want to be the guy to follow in the footsteps of Jurgen Klopp, would I, would I not be better off being the guy after the guy? But then you must look at it and it's not a normal situation. It's not. It's not a kind of post Ferguson situation at United where it's a. It's an aging team that requires a lot of surgery. You know, that most of that surgery has already been done. You know, you think in the last few years, you know, they rebuilt the front line completely, you know, last summer they rebuilt the midfield. And then you've had this remarkable kind of tidal wave almost, of young talent repeatedly stepping up and grasping the opportunities that have come their way this season. So I think, I think that does make it a really, really attractive proposition. And I think that's why, partly why Klopp decided that now was a good time to go, because he said, you know, he hated the idea of handing the club on to someone else, where it was like, well, you know, kind of good luck with that, mate. He wanted to be able to go thinking, yeah, the foundations are here for the success to keep on rolling. And certainly when you see, you know, what was, you know, almost really a Liverpool team that you'd almost expect to see in the third round of the FA cup, not in a major final at Wembley, winning like that, you know, I think that has to just, you know, especially when you see the scenes after, you think, who would not want that array of talent at their disposal going going forward into this summer.
- [41:22]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, well, that sounds like a good advert if ever I heard it. James, David, thank you so much for your time. And also you can hear more from James on our dedicated Liverpool podcast. Walk on. In the aftermath of Sunday's Wembley win, with a new episode also dropping on Tuesday. And also don't forget to rate and review this podcast. We're back tomorrow.
- [41:44]
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You've been listening to to the Athletic Football Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavro and Jay Beale and the executive producer was Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic Football Podcast is an athletic media company production. The athletic.
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