Ruben Amarim (2:48)

I came here to be the manager of Manchester United, not to be the coach of Manchester United. And that is clear. I know that my name is not Tuchel, it's not Conte, he's not Mourinho, but I'm the manager of Manchester United and it's going to be like this for 18 months or when they, the board decided to change. I'm not going to quit. I will do my job until other guy is coming here to. To replace me. If people cannot handle the Gary Nevilles and the criticisms of everything we need to change the club. I came here to be the manager of Manchester United, not to be the coach. And every department, the scouting department, the sport director needs to do their job, I will do mine for 18 months and then we move on.

Ayo Akimulere (3:39)

Yeah, David, some really strong words there from Ruben Amarim. Why did Manchester United act so promptly following that outburst?

David Ornstein (3:45)

Well, I think they probably felt they were left with no choice, that it was the straw that broke the camel's back ultimately. And the more we're starting to hear about this situation, the more we learn that the seeds were sown. A little bit earlier I started to hear rumblings in and amongst our reporting on Thursday about Enzo Maresca leaving Chelsea. Completely unrelated, nothing to do with Maresca and Man United. People saying to me, you need to have your eyes on Ruben Amarin and Manchester United. It's coming towards an end there. And I didn't really know how to take that. But within 24 hours, Amarim had given his news conference ahead of the Leeds game. And he had a face like thunder. He didn't want to speak about the formation, which he's spoken about so much in the past. He said they wouldn't be doing any January business. It felt like something had happened prior to that news conference. And we now learn that there was an explosion of sorts, disagreement between him and Jason Wilcox, the sporting director. Overall manner of topics. I'm sure we'll find out more as the days go on. And that kind of laid the foundations for what we saw post Leeds. And I think when you speak like he did at Elland Road, about your superiors, your employers, about your job and your club, especially one of this magnitude, it tends, as we saw in the case of Maresca at Chelsea, to only end one way. So it's quite A messy situation and one that when you reflect on it, his comments, not only now, but over the months and there have been a number of. Of notable outbursts. You kind of feel that it's maybe not entirely a surprise and Man United find themselves in this unwanted position yet again. I think that's 10 managers, including interim, since Sir Alex Ferguson departed in 2013. And all eyes will be on what they do next.

Ayo Akimulere (5:47)

Yeah, Critch, you were at that press conference listening to that. I'm just scratching my head thinking, goodness me, how long has this guy got left? Did it feel like the point of no return from your point of view?

Mark Critchley (5:58)

Yes. In a word, it was incendiary. It was pretty extraordinary. I've sat through some. I don't know whether you'd call it an outburst or a rant or a power play or whatever you want to call it. I've sat through a few in my time covering United. That was the one that felt like it would have the most dramatic and immediate consequences of all of any of those that I've sat through. There's a group of journalists we kind of gathered around at the end and we're trying to interpret exactly what he meant, break down each line of it, but then ultimately come to the decision of, well, what did it mean for his future and what would be the consequences? And we've seen the consequences today. I think that it's very rare for a manager to speak so openly and directly against their own superior within the club and to keep their job. We've seen an example of that recently with Enzo Maresca and now we've got another one. There's plenty more through the history of English football and the Premier League, etc. I think the most pointed part was really where he essentially does everything except name the sporting director. The director of football at Manchester United, Jason Wilcox. He also referenced the scouting department, which is headed up by Christopher Favell. And there'd been reports over the weekend about some sort of tension there. It was a follow up really from his press conference's pre match on Friday, which I was attending as well, where his mood was like. And his demeanour was like nothing I've ever seen from Ruben Amarim. Usually, no matter what the result has been, you can trust that there'll be a little bit of levity, perhaps a joke. He can be quite self deprecating at times. He tends to disarm journalists. We've seen that even after results like Grimsby or the Everton game, or to me, there's all manner of poor results that there have been during his time at the club. But on Friday, he was. He looked flat, he looked defeated. He looked like he was a kind of shadow of the coach that he had been in the role. And that really set people's antennas going. It set the hair running on what exactly was going on yesterday after the Leeds game. He could just have played a sort of straight bat as he, as he. As he basically did on Friday. But it was always very unlikely that he was going to do that because I think we've seen how he operates. He wears his heart on his sleeve. He speaks directly, he speaks openly, he's honest, sometimes to a fault. If he feels something, he will often tell you. And it came out yesterday in. Yeah, again, one of the more extraordinary exchanges that I've seen in the press conference. One of the most extraordinary outbursts, if I want to use that word, that I've seen from a manager. And ultimately he's pay for it with his job. And I don't think that's a particular surprise.

Ayo Akimulere (8:29)

Oli, let me throw some stats at you here. Ruben Amarim had the lowest win ratio of any permanent Manchester United manager in the Premier League, and that was 32%. He averaged 1.24 points per game. His longest winning streak was just three games. Only Spurs, West Ham and Wolves accumulated fewer points than Amarims United. From your perspective, are there any complaints that he was sacked?

Oli Kay (8:55)

I think if you look at it in its entirety, I don't think it's worked from day one. The performances and results over the piece have been really poor. It's basically one winning three in the Premier League. That's nowhere near good enough. It's barely near good enough for any team, never mind for Manchester United. But what Amarim can say in his defence is that they're sixth in the Premier League. They're not far from Liverpool in fourth. There is another side to this, and I will acknowledge that. But their performances and results this season have been better. It's just that the improvement has been fairly meager in terms of the performances, results. But what I find fascinating is that the word, the official word out of Manchester United this morning has been, look, this isn't to do with power struggles. This isn't to do with personality clashes. This is all to do with the results not being good enough yet. I spoke to somebody at Manchester United about a month ago and they said, yeah, look, it's going okay. We look at the xg, we look at the data. The performances aren't bad. If we'd won this game we'd be fourth, which has pretty much been the case all season. There was also an expectation at that point that with Ahmad and Masrawi and Burmo going away for AFCON that the Christmas period might be a bit rocky. So why has that suddenly been forgotten? And I think the obvious answer to that is that he's been challenging, perhaps undermining the authority of those above him.

Ayo Akimulere (10:26)

Critch, there's something in that press conference that just got my head scratching, and it's this conversation around, is he a head coach or is he a manager? And I know, look, English is Amarim's second language. Perhaps there's something lost in conversation there, but why is that such a contentious situation? Is there a misunderstanding there from the way he sees himself versus the way the board see him acting as Manchester United at the hel of Manchester United?

Mark Critchley (10:48)

Well, I'm sure that he was aware that when he was announced as Manchester United head coach, that that was the terminology that was used around it. So I'm positive that he knows that that was the case. So him making that point yesterday and repeatedly making it, this was clearly something that he had prepared. If he was going to be asked about his reaction to similar questions on Friday. He wanted to get this across, said it three or four times within those answers, amongst other things, I wonder if it was more of a device. We understand that in English football culture, managers, we associate them with having more power over the things that are necessarily not to do with matters on the pitch. Perhaps recruitment strategy within the club, coaches, head coaches tend to be part of more of an aligned and collaborative structure. In Amriem's case, this is quite a stark change from how he was speaking just before Christmas. He was asked about recruitment, essentially, and he was saying, look, we want to find common ground, that that is the ultimate aim and that yes, sometimes managers have different priorities compared to the hierarchy and the structure, but if we come together and find common ground, then that's the best thing for the club moving forward. Now, when he said those comments at the time, I think actually it was just post Christmas on Boxing Day after Newcastle game. I think everybody in the room would have taken those in sort of good faith and thought, okay, well, that's not totally misaligned with what he's been saying before about the way recruitment works at the club and his say within that. But to be making the point that he sometimes has a different opinion to those above him. I think he also said that, yes, I understand that if you give the manager everything he wants then you change the manager, you're stuck. But he also said sometimes people need to understand that the manager knows the best way of playing. So these little hints have been there over the past couple of weeks that there was a misalignment that previously wasn't there. And I think perhaps this question of head coach or manager, this is him using that as a device to say I want control over, yes, some say in transfers, but also the system that we're playing. This has obviously been a bit of a bone of contention as well. Recently we've seen him switch to more of a back four in some games. It was definitely a back four. That night against Newcastle again before Christmas, he was sounding more open to the idea that it was necessary, he needed to do that. And then suddenly this past week when he's been asked similar questions, those have been shut down. And then we have his comments yesterday. Clearly there has been a rupture over the recent period that has meant that those distinctions have suddenly become very important to him. And I think that's what he was getting at when he was trying to make that distinction between the power that a manager has and the power that a head coach traditionally has as well.

Podcast Announcer (13:34)

This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Accimulere. This is a paid advert by BetterHelp, the sponsor for this episode of the Athletic FC the New Year doesn't require a new you, maybe just a less burdened you. And therapy can help easily identify what weighs you down or holds you back by offering an unbiased perspective to better understand your relationships, your motivations and your emotions. It could be a work thing, a family thing, a health thing. But no matter what you're dealing with, therapy can help you move forward with confidence and excitement. Excitement. BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy providers, serving over 5 million people globally. All you have to do is fill in a short questionnaire and they'll pair you with a therapist based on your preferences, needs and goals. And the right therapist can change everything. And BetterHelp has over 30,000 trusted professionals on their books. If you aren't happy with who you've been matched with, you can switch to a different therapist at any time. BetterHelp makes it easier to get matched online with a qualified therapist. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com fcpodcast that's betterhelp.com fcpodcast one last time. Betterhelp.com fcpodcast.

TurboTax Advertiser (14:46)

It's that time of year again for taxes. We all know the Stress of the old way of filing. You send your documents off and then absolute radio silence. You're stuck refreshing your inbox and sending awkward just checking in texts, wondering if they've even started. But with TurboTax Expert full service I know my TurboTax Expert takes taxes fully off my plate and updates me every step of the way so I don't have to worry. That way I can get back to the things that matter to me, like going on vacation in the spring or enjoying the NFL off season. So stop chasing updates. It's time to switch to the modern tax filing Solution with Intuit TurboTax. The best part? You can get experts progress right on your phone while you go about your day. So go for a run or grab a coffee. You'll know your dedicated expert is handling it, looking for every last deduction to get you the best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve. File with confidence. Visit turbotax.com Only available with TurboTax Full Service Experts Real time updates only in.

Verizon Advertiser (15:44)

Ios mobile app this holiday, Verizon is giving you incredible gifts and savings you'll enjoy all year. When you Switch, you'll get four new iPhone 17 Pros. No trade in needed. That's right, get four lines for just 25 a line. And the amazing iPhone 17 Pro for everyone. Save big this holiday. Visit Verizon today. 20 monthly promo credits applied to account over 35 months with a new line on unlimited welcome. In times of congestion, unlimited 5G and 4G LTE may be temporary, temporarily slower than other traffic domestic data roaming at 2G speeds. Additional terms apply for phone offer. See verizon.com for details.

Ayo Akimulere (16:22)

Ollie, I was just going to ask you a question as to whether or not Ellen Road is the place that brings the worst out of big teams. We see Salah's outburst, we see obviously Reuben Amarim's outburst. But back to sort of what Critch was saying. Do we feel this is something that sort of followed Ruben Amarim through his tenure at Manchester United? This struggle to, to find respect to to have a V to speak up for his ideals as opposed to what the greater echelons at Manchester United want?

Oli Kay (16:48)

Do you know, I would look at it differently. I think he has been given quite a lot of freedom and has been indulged to quite a large extent in terms of calling the shots and being more than a sort of puppet head coach. Obviously he came in as head coach and that was a change in terms of Manchester United's the previous way they'd done appointments. It was a breakaway Supposedly from that sort of old fashioned author, authoritarian structure of the, of. Of the manager calling the shots. But you go back to what Jim Ratcliffe said when he bought into the club nearly two years ago, February 2024, when he said that the whole structure, the playing style, the, the football strategy would be decided by an executive team director of football and so on and the manager would conform and comply with that. Which seemed like a threat to twerk10hag at the time. But when they changed manager and the expectation was that they were going to have this vision and maybe a tactical technical vision and the new coach was going to have to fit in with that, I felt they did the opposite of that. I felt they, they, they went after the guy who was the hottest property in Europe at the time. His Sporting Lisbon team had won the title in Portugal. They were doing well in the Champions League at the start of that season. Reuben Amarin was, was a hot property and they went to him. And to my mind, unless anybody could tell me any differently, he dictated at that point that no, I will want to play a back three, three man central defence. And this is going to take time. I'm not fitting into your style. I'm going to bring my style to Manchester United which immediately set alarm bells ringing in some ways. But if you're going to buy into that, which I think the club did because they bought a sort of dedicated wing back in Dorgu in the first transfer window and then they did things that he wanted in the second transfer window. In terms of the types of forward players, more the sort of wide number tens than orthodox wingers. It feels like they have reshaped the squad partly sort of half heartedly, typical modern Manchester United half heartedly, but they've gone in that direction. And they were saying they were all in on Amarim and I think they were basically until the last few weeks. And I think it shows a real kind of lack of a clear vision for Manchester United. And so when he is saying that he feels undermined or suggesting that he feels undermined or suggesting that his authority isn't quite as it should be, I think that has been a sort of gradual change as they have perhaps lost trust with him over time. And the results and overall trajectory of the Amrim era don't reflect well on him, but they really do not reflect well on those above him are those who will still be calling the shots. Because to me it's been two wasted years since Ratcliffe and Idios took over. I don't think they're any further on than they were in the final months of 10 Hag. You could say they're further away than ever. And that is absolutely damning because it was a very low bar to clear in terms of taking over from the Glazers in the football running of the club.

Ayo Akimulere (20:01)

David, I want to talk about director of football Jason Wilcox and what sort of led to this breakdown between Amarim and Wilcox. Is it the formations? Is it much more?

David Ornstein (20:11)

Listen, everything we hear suggests that Wilcox had been supportive of Amarim throughout his time at the club and as sporting director, you would certainly hope so, but naturally there are going to be some tough conversations and disagreements and clearly Amarim, who joined United at the age of 39, was relatively inexperienced, emotional, hadn't worked as a manager outside of Portugal and would have needed managing. Wilcox himself was technical director at the time. It got upgraded to sporting director after the departure of Dan Ashworth. He had only worked in that role briefly at Southampton. Director of football. I think he was there and prior he was at Manchester City as academy director and before that a youth coach. So this has been a rapid ascent for Wilcox and Ashworth is a different topic altogether. But he. He was vastly experienced in this sort of role and, and I think there is already a lot of discussion about the wisdom of his departure, but, you know, we didn't hear about fundamental breakdowns during much of the 14 months. But clearly in more recent times there have been suggestions of tensions. I don't think it would have only been about a formation. I think there would have been many factors, certainly from the dialogue I have had around this news, whether it be formation, whether it be recruitment in the market, whether it be visions and perception on promises and what has been kept, what hasn't, where things are going. And evidently Friday was a bad day in this or and potentially seminal. And then sort of Sunday's comments tipped it over the edge. But there's a collective there. There's also Christopher Vivelle, who's heading up the recruitment, there's Omar Barada as chief executive, and then above that there is Sir Jim Ratcliffe in the Oster board. But, you know, clearly a lot of emphasis will be placed on that relationship with Wilcox, and understandably so, and perhaps even further judgment, a more significant judgment will be on on how Wilcox leads United forward now in the decision, whether it's over an interim coach, if somebody else comes in after Darren Fletcher takes the initial matches, and then of course, the permanent successor. And we know with sporting directors, as Eddie Howe famously said before, when Dan Ashworth was in the process of leaving Newcastle, and he was asked in the news conference, how do you think he's done? Eddie Howe said, a sporting director is judged over years, not over months. And that's the only amount of time Dan Ashworth's been here. And it's the same with Jason Wilcox. He really has been there for a year. You know, lots of people speak very highly of him from his work in the game so far, especially at Manchester City. But he's been elevated into an extraordinary position very early. And so it will take more time for us to form judgments. And perhaps with hindsight you can reflect, and Man United might, that you had two relatively fresh people into such key positions at such a massive club and organization that it was too much too soon and you need a more experienced person leading that sporting operation. But that is clearly, by the way, that Man United are backing Jason Wilcox. That could become him in the time ahead. And if they are backing him, it will have to be him. But they will have to put some very deep thought into this new head coach and how that relationship can ultimately be healthier going forward than this one ended. Because clearly not ideal.

Ayo Akimulere (23:44)

Yeah. Before you go, just a quick one. Does this have any impact on potential transfers? I mean, January is here. I mean, there are players on the market and Manchester United do need to bolster this squad in many respects as well. Or can they even do any business with so much going on?

David Ornstein (23:57)

Well, we're on the 5th of January, so a lot can change in the weeks ahead. The initial word I'm getting from conversations I've had is that no notable business is expected to be done at this point in time. Don't hold me to that, because you never know in this industry. Obviously, Man United were in the mix for Antoine Semeno, who is on course to join Manchester City. That would say to many people that there's budget there, it's a 65 million pound release clause. Maybe Reuben Amarim was saying, well, if we're not getting him, who are we getting? That was always explained to me as being a market opportunity for that player who we know that Man United liked because they explored it last summer and the price was deemed to be too high. They don't necessarily then allocate those resources to an alternative signing. And maybe that position is not even at the top of their agenda because the central midfield area is the key focus as we understand it. Whether that's now or more likely in the summer, I think you'll see that addressed. It'll be very interesting to see how things shape up with Mainoo now because he was clearly out of favor under Ruben Amarim. Will he play a bigger role going forward and therefore stay at the club? And that could bolster that midfield department because it was like not having him really, because he was playing so little at the time of recording this. I'm not expecting January to be a busy month of transfer activity for Man United, however, naturally, and now even more so with a new head coach set to be appointed at some stage. You would expect the summer to be extremely significant for Manchester United in the market and therefore their short and longer term future.

Ayo Akimulere (25:35)

Okay, David, I've already seen the Kobe Mainu is free memes flying around social media, so really appreciate your chat on that and appreciate you joining us as well.

David Ornstein (25:43)

Pleasure. Cheers, guys.

Ayo Akimulere (25:46)

Yeah, Oli, we've already spoken about Jason Wilcox, but what about the others in the executive structure at Manchester United, namely Omar Berada as well? I mean, I remember when Ineos took over there was a conversation about bringing in the best in class. Right. And not just in the operationals of the club, but also when you talk about managers, etc, players, why does this leave them? Because fundamentally Amarim was their appointment.

Oli Kay (26:13)

Yeah. And Omar Barada was a real driving force behind that. Remember, they did have a director of football, Dan Ashworth at the time. He'd just arrived from, from Newcastle after a sort of very painstaking process to secure his services from Newcastle. And it was very much Omar Berarda pushing that appointment rather than Dan Ashworth. He's chief executive for Manchester United. He's not director of football, he's not chairman, he's chief executive at Manchester City. He was there for nine years. I think the first four years of it were for commercial. Then he was, then he was sort of chief football operations officer and chief football operations officer. Isn't the guy leading the football vision. It's often logistics, it's often managing the football department. So I was never quite understanding of why he was taking and taking a lot of credit for so much of the legwork behind the Amarim appointment. I haven't heard any suggestion that he's under any threat whatsoever. I've heard really, really good things about Omar Barada in terms of when he arrived from Manchester City. People I speak to there were saying, look, he's a loss for us. He's a really smart guy, he's really good at what he does, he's good at identifying people who are good at what they do. And great organizer, great sort of leader of a department. But I'm trying to work out what would be considered the great successes of his 18 months as chief executive of Manchester United. I'm sure there will cite some. I'm sure they will cite some of their financial improvements and costs cut and so on. But in terms of the football strategy, which he has been quite heavily involved in influencing, I don't really see a great deal to make me think it's working terribly well.

Ayo Akimulere (27:59)

Critic has a bit of a wry smile when he mentioned Omar Berarda's legacy so far. There's something that really bothers me here and I don't know whether how Manchester United fundamentally move on until they nail this fact. What are they looking for? They're looking for a head coach. Are they looking for an old school manager of the past? Because if you look at the market currently, I can't tell you how many old school managers are available right now. Maybe in the future. But also if you look at the structure Manchester United have built for themselves, it's based on a kind of a modern football structure where you're looking at a head coach basically underneath a lot of other mouths to basically speak.

Mark Critchley (28:33)

Yes, that is certainly the structure. That is certainly how it was characterized. When I remember Jim Ratcliffe was speaking at the INEOS headquarters in Knightsbridge in London after the nearly two years ago now when the minority investment was confirmed. I remember him, and I think it's a quote that's going to get a lot of play over the next few days, saying that he wanted the structure to decide the style of play. And that structure included the CEO, the sporting director, the scouting staff, the recruitment staff, and then the manager would have to play that style of play. And I remember him saying directly, in modern football, you need to decide what's your path and you need to stick to your path. That was his words at the time. Now at that point, Erik ten Hag was manager. He was playing 433-4231. Certainly a back four. The style of play was quite chaotic, it was quite direct. Some people would say it was in United's best traditions and at the end of that season he won the FA Cup. There was a lot of speculation about his job prospects, to put it mildly. And then they gave him a new contract, having spoke to other managers who they were speaking to to replace him. Fast forward five months after that, he's out the door and they've brought in a manager who plays a back three whose style of play I think certainly last season was a lot more controlled, slower, more solid, perhaps not capable of the kind of back to front, high octane games that would characterise 10HAG second season certainly, but a more stable and some people would say a more modern coach, whatever that means. It was a clear change of direction. And here we are sat today, 14 months later and that manager's out the door and we're wondering where it's going to go next. And you asked me that question. I honestly can't really tell you a straight answer on it because I don't think Ineos have been consistent in terms of what they want to see from a head coach or a manager or whatever we're calling it right now. After yesterday's comments, I think generally speaking, United now, this structure, this ownership, wants the head coach to work within a system where they are, yes, collaborating with decisions on recruitment, etc. Strategy, wider, things like that. But their responsibility ultimately is for coaching and performances and things that happen on the pitch. Damarim himself has framed his job within those terms earlier this season. So that's the understanding that United work on. I imagine it will still be in the same mould, but given that these questions about control structure, even style of play have pocked marked each United manager's reign for over the last 10 years, I would say it wouldn't be wholly surprising if they just rear their head again, whoever the new person who walks into the door is.

Ayo Akimulere (31:20)

Yeah, all right, Oli, I'm going to give you some more stats. Again, it paints a picture, I guess, of how chaotic things are at Manchester United in the background. So Manchester United, they have conceded the fourth most goals in the Premier League under Amarim. Amarim worst clean sheet ratio of any Manchester United. Manchester United manager. And also only two teams made more starting 11 changes in the Premier League during Amory's time at Manchester United and those were spurs and Chelsea as well. Now it's all going to go down on Abirim for so many reasons. But also, should we have a conversation about the squad he's got? Because there are a lot of players there, firstly, that don't fit his system. But secondly, probably many people will question whether or not they've got the desire and the quality to play for a team like Manchester United.

Oli Kay (32:04)

I think a lot of people would have felt when Amarin was there that they were really underperforming with the squad that they had. I would have been amongst those people. I don't. It's nowhere near a title challenging squad, but I felt that they were still underperforming. I felt that at times in that 2324 seasons I felt under 10 hag that their performances were much worse than the results suggested. In the sort of handover season when Amarim have arrived, the performances were. Were really poor. Results were really poor. And this season they have been better. You know, they have actually scored a reasonable number of goals. And look, I don't think it's a strong convincing sixth, but they are sixth in the Premier League. But I still think they are absolutely miles off having a squad that can compete for the, for the biggest prizes. They are miles off what Manchester City are doing and will do and they're miles off what Arsenal are doing. They're miles off what Liverpool did last season, you know, so far off. I think always around this time when, when there's upheaval at Manchester United, people will talk about, oh, is there a nucleus of players you can build around? And there always is, but I think it's always a small nucleus. You could say at the moment, Bruno Fernandes, very obviously people are excited by Cugnhe's and Mburmo's initial impact, even though it's been inconsistent. People like Ahmad, people like Yoro Delict has had a good season, but doesn't feel to me like there's an absolute core of players that you would really hang your hat on and say, look, with one or two additions, this is going to be a really good team. I think you could rebuild the midfield and it would look a lot better. Which is why I'm absolutely dumbfounded that they didn't sign a midfielder in the summer. But it would need to be an absolutely transformative midfielder to sit alongside Bruno Fernandes in A two in midfield and make me think that is a brilliant way forward. I still think they're absolutely miles off and it's because they've committed and half committed, which is probably worse to a vision, which is the vision of a coach who was only ever passing through because his appointment wasn't passed through. And I think that is absolutely damning of the people who run Manchester United. Not for the first time in recent.

Ayo Akimulere (34:18)

Years is this squad not good enough crit to challenge for anything solid.

Mark Critchley (34:22)

I feel that the squad as it currently exists, the players that are there right now are probably about the 6th, 7th, 8th best team in the league. And guess where they've been for most of the season. They've been sixth, seventh and eighth. And I don't know how many weeks we've spent now where they've come up against a team that, to be honest, a lot of people would have expected them to be. They've only been a few points off, climbing into the Champions League places, and they haven't quite got there. They are level on points with Chelsea, who are fifth. And fifth might be enough for Champions League at the end of the season. And this is one of the internal and probably external debates that United fans have been having over the last few weeks. Split into two camps. Amari. Amari out. You can play both sides, you can look over their shoulder. And their four points back is 14th place, Crystal Palace. And once you're 14th, you're not far off 15th, where you finished last season. We're in that sort of Premier League this year, and I think one of the main frustrations has been that there's this bloated middle in the Premier League and there's an opportunity for a lot of people to climb up the table just a few points. You see what Aston Villa have done by stringing some wins together. They're nailed on home and hose for European football. Now, basically, that could be United, particularly with the run that they've had over the last few games, a favorable run of fixtures that basically comes to an end on Wednesday night. For Burnley, that feels like a huge opportunity that has been missed. And we can say whatever you like about the relative quality and the strength of the players in the squad. I think that time and again they've proved that they're about at the level that they are in the table right now, and it will take significant investment and improvement in order to build a squad that's capable of challenging consistently for Premier League titles. That's ultimately the expectation, I think, at a club the size of United. And that's kind of damning to say, given the fact that they've been spending money like a Champions League team without consistently qualifying for the Champions League team for years and years and years now. And that's had ramifications on the financial side of things as well. It's something that the club is totally aware of and has spoken about consistently for years that they need to improve at. But we're still waiting to see the result.

TurboTax Advertiser (36:30)

It's that time of year again for taxes. We all know the stress of the old way of filing. You send your documents off and then absolute radio silence. You're stuck refreshing your inbox and sending awkward. Just checking in texts, wondering if they've even started. But with TurboTax Expert full service, I know my TurboTax Expert takes taxes fully off my plate and updates me every step of the way. So I don't have to worry. That way I can get back to the things that matter to me, like going on vacation in the spring or enjoying the NFL off season. So stop chasing updates. It's time to switch to the modern tax filing Solution with Intuit TurboTax. The best part you can get at Experts progress right on your phone while you go about your day. So go for a run or grab a coffee. You'll know your dedicated expert is handling it, looking for every last deduction to get you the best possible outcome and every dollar you deserve. File with confidence. Visit turbotax.com Only available with TurboTax Full Service Experts Real time updates only in.

Verizon Advertiser (37:27)

Ios mobile app this holiday, Verizon is giving you incredible gifts and savings you'll enjoy all year. When you Switch, you'll get four new iPhone 17 Pros. Trade in needed. That's right, get four lines for just 25 a line and the amazing iPhone 17 Pro for everyone. Save big this holiday. Visit Verizon today. 20 monthly promo credits applied to account over 35 months with a new line on unlimited welcome in times of congestion. Unlimited 5G and 4G LTE may be temporarily slower than other traffic domestic data roaming at 2G speeds. Additional terms apply for phone offer. See verizon.com for details.

Ayo Akimulere (38:00)

Jump start your January goals at Whole Foods Market. They have hundreds of yellow sale tags for feel good savings across the store. Explore sales on sustainable wild caught sockeye salmon fillets, organic boneless chicken breasts and many more quality finds to support your wellness journey. In fact, Whole Foods Market is the only certified organic national grocer shop Whole Foods Market with so many ways to save all month long. Terms apply.

Podcast Announcer (38:33)

You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akimilere.

Ayo Akimulere (38:37)

Well, let's talk about what comes next. And Critch, this is something that's really bothering me. I mean it's we talk about the manager continuously, but who is there to set the standard here at Manchester United? Who is there to rally the troops and say, lads, this is what this team means. This is what Manchester United expect this season? Let's go out and get it.

Mark Critchley (38:56)

Who's the one individual who can do that?

Ayo Akimulere (38:57)

Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to say like, who's the voice to say this is what Manchester United is about and this is what we're aiming for? So go out there lads, and go get it.

Mark Critchley (39:07)

I think that traditionally in the history of the club that came from the manager's office because it would have come from Sir Alex Ferguson. And if we're talking about a vacuum. And that's the one that's never been filled. It's the one that I think initially they didn't feel they needed to fill or weren't quite prepared for. How to fill it, I think is more accurate. And you're right, I think, when you say that it needs to become more of a collective thing. I do think Bruno Fernandes as captain is somebody who understands that. I think that he's somebody who has the authority, has the leadership qualities to rally people around that sort of cause and make people aware of the club's traditions. But then we were talking about him before in terms of the squad, but then it's not entirely certain whether he's going to be around next season, certainly not the season after that, when his contracts. I think it's up then. So there is a lack of individual figures who you would pin that on at the moment. But I struggle to attribute that to any one individual's failing. I think it's more collectively the club needs to whip itself into shape on that front for a long time and we're still waiting for it to do so.

Ayo Akimulere (40:11)

Oli David mentioned that Darren Fletcher is in interim charge with a look at a long term successor coming in the summer. But where do they go next? Because there's been a whole heap of managers that have taken the helm at Manchester United and haven't done that well.

Oli Kay (40:27)

I just can't think because I don't know what the vision is, I don't know what the plan is. You can sometimes look at a club and think, well, we know what type of manager they want and we know what type of manager will fit into what they want. And I don't know what Manchester United want. If you go back two months, three months, I think everybody would have said, well, it's got to be Glasner, it's got to be Iraola. But those two have results at palace and Bournemouth have tailed off. And that seems in the bizarre nature of the football industry, people sort of lose interest based on a bad sort of four or five weeks or so. You go back to the summer of 2024 and who were the managers they were looking at? Who were the others? De Zerbi, Thomas, Frank, Marco, Silva. There was interest in. And then it came to the vacancy a few months later and. And it was suddenly a one horse race for Amarim. It's bizarre how football works. It's bizarre how Manchester United have worked in these past few years. So I. I wouldn't know at all. You might look at the current emphasis on the pot, on the likelihood of an interim appointment and think, well, does that hint towards somebody who might become available at the end of the season, maybe after the World Cup? Did it? You know, look at all the managers there. There's Thomas Tuchel with England, there's Julian Nagelsmann with. With Germany. There was. There's Carlo Ancelotti with Brazil, Pochettino with usa. Are, are they. Will they be thinking of somebody who's, who's going to be on World cup duty? I think yet again they're going to be molding their structure to fit whoever they end up bringing in.

Ayo Akimulere (42:00)

Yeah, Oli's scratching his head crit. Will post World cup provide a bit more clarity as to who's available to make a much more informed decision?

Mark Critchley (42:09)

It could and I think the options that will be available at that time are perhaps a little bit more qualified. I think Amory might have even name dropped a couple of them in his press conference yesterday. But I guess the issue with that is timing, isn't it? Because if the World cup finishes in the middle of July, is that really ideal for a new permanent head coach to be coming in at that point when you'd expect United to, to be honest, already be on the pre season tour by that point. Now we have seen it before, it happened in 2014 with Louis van Gaal, went all the way to the semi finals of the 2014 World cup and then started work at United. So I wouldn't rule out that sort of possibility. And it might be, as I say, that the coaches of the calibre that you would perhaps expect to. To be in the running for this job are only really available then. I do think we've also seen that United, certainly in the summer transfer business at least we're taking a bit more of a bent towards Premier League proven. Does that apply to coaches as well? If so, then that does bring, I think, Glasner and Irael to the table. I know as Oli mentioned, the results have tailed off recently, but I think there's still a level of admiration there for the job that they've done. So it's interesting but I think I remember when Ten Hag was dismissed, we did a pod almost as soon as that happened. I think jumped straight on when it was still a very fluid situation. And I was sort of making the argument at the time that I think it's probably the right moment to get an interim, have them till the end of the season, treat it as a bit of a. Not a write off as such but take that time to decide properly on who you want. And it sounds like that is more likely. I mean, again, still, it's a fluid situation right now, but it sounds like that's more likely the approach that United will take. And I think that's right. And I think that's a lesson that they've perhaps learned from Amarim. He always said that he didn't want to join in the middle of the season. Even this year, when the results have been okay and certainly an improvement on last year and people are arguing about they're only this far off, Champions League, etc, the shadow of last season has hung over this one particularly. And you've been able to point to his record in terms of all competitions, all the games that he's managed. It isn't great. And that dates all the way back to last season when things weren't great. I don't think they'll want that sort of hangover to be over a manager again. I think it'd be sensible to avoid that. And so I wonder if that's the approach that they'll take. But fundamentally, I think wait until summer also gives you a better pick and a better selection of permanent head coaches going forward. And so that makes it the more sensible option for.

Ayo Akimulere (44:41)

I have to. Quickly, before we go through Maresca's name into the ring crit as an option, especially with the relationship with Wilcox and Berada at City Football Group, what are your thoughts on that potential?

Mark Critchley (44:52)

I think that I would not want to rule anything out at this point, at this early stage. So keep options open. If the approach and if the plan is to appoint permanently in the summer, then to me, just logically, without any sort of information that would suggest that Maresca isn't top of the shortlist because he's available right now, now he's not employed right now, we don't know, or certainly I don't know the circumstances of his departure from Chelsea, whether there's some gardening leave restrictions. Maybe they'd have to wait anyway. So maybe he's still a candidate for the summer and maybe it's not possible right now. But I think if we take as read that perhaps he is available and United are still waiting for the summer, that would suggest that he's not top of the list at this stage. But like I say, I don't think we can rule anything out. It's a developing situation, as I keep repeating. And we'll see what names emerge over the coming days.

Ayo Akimulere (45:39)

Yeah, you just turned into David Ornstein very briefly there. I like it. Just keep it sweet. Keep it nice. Exactly. All right J let's leave it there. Correct. Charlie, Appreciate your time and also thank you guys for joining us as well. Make sure you keep across the Athletic for further developments on this and there will be more. We'll catch you soon.

Podcast Announcer (45:59)

You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stabre and Jay Beal. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Adie Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcast for free, including our dedicated club shows, search for the Athletic and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company production.

Verizon Advertiser (46:35)

This holiday, Verizon is giving you incredible gifts and savings you'll enjoy all year. When you Switch, you'll get four new iPhone 17 Pros. No trade in needed. That's right, get four lines for just 25 a line and the amazing iPhone 17 Pro for everyone. Save big this holiday. Visit Verizon today. 20 monthly promo credits applied to account over 35 months with a new line on unlimited welcome in times of congestion. Unlimited 5G and 4G LTE maybe 2 temporarily slower than other traffic domestic data roaming at 2G speeds. Additional terms apply for phone offer. See verizon.com for details.

Monday.com Advertiser (47:05)

Shipping, billing, admin, Payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things, so why waste time sending important documents the old fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want how you want with stamps.com print postage on demand 24, 7 and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to 90% with automated rate shopping. That's why over 1 million small businesses trust stamps.com go to stamps.com and use code podcast to try stamps.com risk free for 60 days. If you're an H vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Granger Granger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.