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- [00:01]
Commercial Narrator
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IO Akimolere
False.
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- [00:17]
Sounds too good to be true. So true.
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Finally caught on.
- [00:22]
Jacob Tanzwa
Nice job.
- [00:23]
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- [00:28]
Jacob Tanzwa
Pickup fees may apply.
- [00:31]
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- [01:35]
Jacob Tanzwa
The Athletic FC.
- [01:38]
IO Akimolere
Welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, IO Akimolere. Aston Villa didn't score a goal in August. Now they're just three points off Arsenal. So are they real title contenders?
- [01:52]
Here for this one we've got our Aston Villa correspondent, Jacob Tanzwa. We've also got Liam Tharm in the studio with the tactical know how as well. Right. Jacob Villa failed first five league games this season, but it's changed around since then. They have then won nine of the next 10. They're now third in the table. What would you credit to this turnaround?
- [02:13]
Jacob Tanzwa
Essentially, if you want the short answer, it's Unai Emery. I remember going on this podcast back in August, September time after they drew 11 with Sunderland where he called his players lazy and at that point you thought, oh no, this doesn't seem to be going very well. But the thing about Emery is that he's apart from that answer, which few days after that he actually regretted, he's very consistent. He doesn't get too high, he doesn't get too low and that's the mentality that he's tried to foster over three years at Aston Villa. And I guess a positive upshot of not having much money to spend in the summer is that the squad has basically stayed the same for three years. A lot of these players predate Emery, so they know his ways of working. There was a fear, especially in the early parts of the season, that there was physical mental burnout, the long analysis meetings, the stagnancy really, but the fact that they all know how he works, the habits, they felt if we could get some confidence and resilience that Em's now talked about. He said the draw gate. Sunderland in retrospect was really important for us just to stop the rot because I'm sure we'll come on to it. The summer was so bleak, it's been described to me by a senior figure as a nightmare. Only 31 million net spend and that kind of pervaded into early parts of the season. So the consequence and the return around has been incredible. Really.
- [03:27]
IO Akimolere
Yeah. From a tactical perspective though, it's been really interesting watching this sort of upsurge and we're talking about obviously firepower because Ollie Watkins hasn't really started the season that well, but they've managed to get it together. And I don't know whether it's a siege mentality is created through his comments, but tactically, especially against Arsenal, they went blow for blow.
- [03:44]
Liam Tharm
Yeah, I mean they're really phenomenal at playing up in games.
- [03:46]
Jacob Tanzwa
Right.
- [03:47]
Liam Tharm
When big teams come, especially to Villa park, their capacity to kind of raise the level individually and collectively is. Is always there to see. And I've spoken to Jake about this before. In fact, we were at the PSG game together back in April and kind of talking about various things and there's a real standout thing of plan A always being the same with Villa. Emery always wants them. You know, ideally in games, bait the press. It's always a similar kind of shape or formation, either some 4, 2, 31 or kind of a 4, Triple 2, where you know, you want that left back pushing on that Left sided number 10 kind of coming inside, getting that box midfield really to try and overload team centrally. And what we saw against Arsenal was a lot of them kind of setting up to play that way and then just smashing the goal kick or the ball long from, from the goalkeeper anyway and saying okay, well we can overload your midfield, we can win second balls and then getting behind. Nice. So I think the challenge there, when they don't necessarily want to be completely tactically flexible and always play kind of different ways, they're saying, well then you need to improve the quality of the players that you've got and you need to have the depth to do that across kind of multiple competitions. There's been some interesting changes this season where Dina's started to kind of be phased out I feel like a little bit or not play that kind of first choice role. Ian Martinsen's coming, got some really great speed down the left. Emi Buendia now having more of a starting role. They've got various number 10s and midfielders that can score goals from range. I think Pau Torres at left centre back is really the key in that team. Didn't really start the season playing and I guess my question to Jacob is love to kind of know why. Didn't seem like he was too injured, maybe just a bit out of favor, but him as a left footer there, able to break lines. ESRI Conte next to him I think is a really solid partnership.
- [05:13]
IO Akimolere
Yeah. What about Paul Torres? Why do you think he didn't start the season so well?
- [05:16]
Jacob Tanzwa
Well, this is ultimately where Villa are at the start of the season. So as we know the mood in the camp was flat. There was obviously, like I say, stagnancy potentially setting in. And at a point in the season, Emery prioritized defensive solidity. Tyro unequivocally was the best player in the first three or four games because they weren't creating anything going forward. But he was key in terms of aerial jewels, defending set plays. And at that point in the season Emery basically said we just need to stay in games and, and maybe nick a win but get points on the ball because we're so far off where we need to be. We're almost starting the season six weeks later because we didn't have a preseason. We signed three players on deadline day. Jay and Sancho lended off Harvey Elliott. Only Lindelof and Sancho are playing mainly Europa League. Neither of them have actually started a league game. So it was only six weeks into the season where Emery felt like Villa were really getting themselves under their feet again. And that's when you can start to bring in pal Torres, you know, improve your in possession schemes. And also it did coincide with Tyrone Mings suffering hamstring injury. But at the same time Villa Ross still aren't scoring a lot and Liam will come onto it in terms of expected goals and that's only really improved in the last couple of weeks. But what they have done is they've been far better defensively. I think they conced they had at this point last season. So the fact that they're now improving defensively means that they're always staying in games.
- [06:33]
IO Akimolere
Yeah. Well, did anyone see this coming, though? I certainly didn't. Adam Crafton actually picked up on this on last Monday's show. Take a listen to this.
- [06:41]
Liam Tharm
I was thinking about Aston Villa, actually. I was thinking about Unai Emery and you know, the way they started the season, no wins in their first five. You know, with the summer they had, I think their transfer business was late. You're kind of a bit worried about them and now all of a sudden it's like seven wins and eight. They've climbed up the table really fast. I'm just really curious because I think Villa are one of those teams that, you know, could really start solidifying this in the top four, top five, but I'm just not quite sure yet how good they are.
- [07:11]
IO Akimolere
Look, Adam's got some opinions and one thing he did mention, I got to say, is that they didn't have a great summer window, Jacob, and you just touched on it then, you know, they also missed out on Champions League football. I wonder how much of an impact that can actually have on a team where you've got these sets of expectations that actually sad going into the new season, you don't manage to hit them. It might take a bit of time to reshape the mind, surely.
- [07:35]
Jacob Tanzwa
Yeah, definitely. I remember speaking to a few of the senior guys who were in the dressing room at Old Trafford on that day and this is about three weeks after that game and there was still overwhelming disappointment. Just the nature of defeat really. The fact that they lost a goal difference there. That controversial refereeing decision to blow up for Morgan Rod's goal Martinez had got send itself. And that came the week before the Manchester United speculation. There was a lot of things going on that day that made it quite a galling day. And that kind of went into the sun because they knew missing out of Chabi's league was. Was terrible really to their summer transfer targets and prospects. They couldn't really sign anyone. The only players they signed were Evan Guess on for potentially up to 30 million and Marco Bissot for less than a million, which is a in respect, a fantastic deal, but they couldn't really strengthen. And when you lose player like Jacob Ramsey, okay, he's not Gone on to brilliant things so far at Newcastle, but he's very popular. He was a local lady, very key in the dressing room. So a lot of these players saw him going. They saw that their own futures were uncertain. You know, even John McGinn, who's been so good this season, has signed a new contract. Everton were interested in him. So there were so many players that had uncertain futures. So going into the season, they didn't feel settled. They didn't feel this team that Emery's built for two and a half years, that was just absolutely incredible and so consistent, they felt actually up in the air. I remember this last podcast we went on. We were talking a lot of Emery's downsides and some of them are he's got too much control in the window, potentially. Some of his transfer targets, if he has too much authority, are skewed. He's not obviously the most personable. But what we've seen now, and this podcast is mainly about, is how good, pound for pound, he's at coaching and maximizing these players. And in the summer there was a. There was a feeling, could these players that he's been with for so many years improve, go up to the next level? I'll say just kind of bottom about now. We've seen actually the likes of Matty Cash, John McGinn, they can go up to another level, which is just an indication of his excellent coaching.
- [09:30]
IO Akimolere
Yeah, and I want to talk a bit more about that, Liam, because, you know, Villa have the second most goal contributions from substitutes in the league, up to nine after the substitution of Emiliano Buendia against Arsenal. Let's talk about his in game management, because that's something I saw floating around on X a lot. He knows how to understand the ebb and flows of games and actually make those substitutions at the right time.
- [09:55]
Liam Tharm
Yeah, I mean, he's coached at the top level for so long now.
- [09:58]
Jacob Tanzwa
Right.
- [09:58]
Liam Tharm
And across, you know, he's been at Villa and across all three European competitions. So I think, you know, playing against bigger, better teams is something he's very accustomed to. I also think it's a case that kind of your subs are only as good as the squad depth you've got available to you. And as kind of poor as I think Villa's window might have been, they have, it feels like, anyway, built a good level of squad depth, especially in forward areas, kind of those, those midfielders, those forwards. You know, last season it was Asensio and Rashford on loan as well. So there's of having players that could impact games and change games more than anything, I think at times through just kind of individual brilliance and quality. And I think it also helps that they've got such a clear system and this can be a negative when they're doing badly, but kind of persisting and playing that same way. Players must come on and have such a clear idea of what they needed to do and what's being asked of them. And look, he makes a lot of subs. I'd quick look at the numbers and it's only Bournemouth and Fulham that have made more subs than Villa this season. So he's clearly very keen to kind of change games in that way. And I think there's probably a little bit of a pragmatic aspect to it as well, where it's sure partly to change games and try and get results and get. Get points, but probably to do with load management as well, dealing with how many minutes players have got to play. They've got, you know, European football again this season, so we can compare them to say, Crystal palace, who don't tend to make a lot of subs, don't make a lot of in game changes with Oliver Glasner and seem to be kind of suffering and their form is now kind of going the other way from. From a good start this season. So it's obviously not purely down to subs, but I think it's clearly something which, you know, Emery's learned across his career is a really important part of the game.
- [11:17]
IO Akimolere
Yeah, let's stick on Buendia right now. Jacob, a player who this season has scored important goals for Unai Emery, but also a player, I don't know, maybe this is just me from the outside looking in. Didn't seem to be getting much game time over the last season or so.
- [11:32]
Jacob Tanzwa
Now his renaissance kind of symbolizes Acid Village really this season. Let's go back to last year. He had an ACR injury three days after Tyrone Minx did and started that 23, 24 campaign. And unlike Mings who they felt like okay, he had, he had the worst injury. He came back up to speed. Weapon D came back. He looked so physically off it, too slow on the ball, was getting out muscled. And it got to the point where they thought only in January, let's move him on. He went to buy Leverkusen alone with an option to buy Leverkusen for whatever reason, didn't play him too much or what was expected, didn't take up the option. And then he got went into preseason and him, Leon Bailey were that type of Guys, you thought, okay, Villa can try and raise some money through senior sales. Really. Leon Bailey left unknown. But Amy Wendia showed something to Emery in pre season. He looked far stronger, he looked more robust. He looked like the Emmy Buendia that pre ACL two years before. And he thought, okay, maybe we can work with him. But still at that point, Emery wasn't quite convinced. He, he was looking at other options, other number 10 alternatives. Lucas Packata was obviously namely one of those. And it got to the final days of the window. Villa actually offering Buendia out there. Does anyone want him? It kind of because Villa were desperate to bring players in. They knew they had to remove someone off the book. So they, they were offering brandier out. Stuttgart were very interested in him. He really didn't want to go. He wanted to have one more shot really. Another six months, final six months at Villa. And then through luck, through getting this opportunity, through showing in certain games, he's now become this player that scores big goals, big moments, and he's been one of the first choice names on the team sheet, which is just remarkable when only what, three months ago, he was a guy that Villa were actively trying to sell. Yeah.
- [13:16]
IO Akimolere
I got to say though, tact with Ollie Watkins not firing, it's quite interesting how they've managed to solve that problem of goal scoring in particular.
- [13:23]
Liam Tharm
I think. So Jacob touched on it as well, kind of towards the top, that they've scored a lot of really good finishes, a lot of goals from distance, which is a great asset to have. I think the real test of kind of their form now is you can run hot for a period of time, kind of outperforming your expectations or kind of the quality of chances that you're creating. But if you want to be kind of a real kind of title chaser, I know we'll come on to this. Then it's about getting Ollie Watkins into those goalscoring positions again, about getting repeatable high chances, creating tap ins and kind of scoring goals from 24, 30 yards. They, they need to be the extra ones and not kind of your whole goal catalog. But yeah, that's a big part of the reason why they've, they've done so well recently.
- [13:57]
IO Akimolere
Yeah. Can we quickly talk about Morgan Rodgers as well? Jacob took him a while to get going much like much to this Villa team this season in many respects. But he's now contributed, what, three goals and three assists in the last 10 Premier League games. And I'm just thinking we've got the World cup happening in the summer So I agree.
- [14:13]
Jacob Tanzwa
The most competitive position in world football is at the England number 10 spot at the moment. And the fact that he's in the conversation shows how highly rated he is by Thomas Duch, how unique his skill set is. Right. We spoke about it before. He's so powerful. He's such a ball carry. And I think at the start of the season he was kind of victim of his own success, actually. Teams were starting to get really tight to start to frustrate him, leave a challenge on him and really just stop him turning and driving at them the way he's so dangerous. And I think there was an acceptance from him and people close to him that he was quite loose in possession. His decision making can be quite erratic. So he would do the hard part and then the final pass would let him down. And it got to the point again only three months ago against Bologna, where he couldn't make a pass. It felt like in the second half. And when he actually did do one, Villa park cheered. Ironically, he got applauded when he finally got substituted against Sunderland. In that game and that point, he was basically the token of how bad Villa was doing. He was. He couldn't control the ball. It felt like Villa weren't creating any chances. And since then he's showed his maturity, but he showed that he's so tactically flexible. Right. Against Arsenal, he started off the left, second half on the right. Usually he's the central number 10 as well. He can play up front as a number nine. He's so versatile and I think those early parts of the season, they'll show that actually he's a better player for him.
- [15:31]
Podcast Host (Athletic FC)
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akimolere.
- [15:38]
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- [18:01]
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- [19:30]
IO Akimolere
Well, they are, when you look at.
- [19:31]
Liam Tharm
Where they are, the way they play.
- [19:33]
IO Akimolere
They have beaten some big teams, especially at home. Everybody's going to have to play everybody. So at the moment they are where they are and we are there as well. Yeah, well that was Mikel Arteta after Saturday's match admitting the Villa are indeed title contenders. But let's decide that for ourselves. I still think it's quite premature, but maybe that's just me. Now we will rank them on a number of factors and see firstly they are in the conversation with Arsenal, Chelsea, Manchester City, who a lot of people will class as firm favorites for that. So let's start with this gents. Let's start with squad depth. They're in the Europa League as well. Does their squad stack up to either Arsenal's City's or Chelsea's? Liam?
- [20:13]
Liam Tharm
I think not quite and that's fine because you know, they just haven't been at the top for quite as long long as those teams. I think maybe in forward areas it does. It's probably further down the pitch where they quite I don't think they've quite got as much as many options or as much versatility probably at fullbacks, especially in central defense and I that can almost be the part, especially as Jacob was saying, for a team that's been built on the defense a lot this season, they can bring players on to change games, score goals and kind of win points that way. But I think it's probably going to be good enough to carry them through Premier League season, compete really well and do well in the Europa League.
- [20:40]
Jacob Tanzwa
Also, I still think if they get top six, considering how bad the summer was and the feeling I think that might be Emery's Biggest achievement. So the fact we're even talking about title potential contenders in December is quite remarkable. What I will say is they've won every game directly after a Europa League fixture, so that shows that they can bounce back. They're very good at only having one training session before another game because they do a lot of analysis. And they've always been very good, actually in balancing every European competition of Premier League. So they can do that. But like Liam says, there are tactical imbalances in that team that they will hope to rectify to some extent in January. They haven't got a right winger. Evan guess on was the player that can kind of moonlight there, but he's going away with afcon. Matty Cash has been one of the best right backs in Europe this season. He's the only real right back. Andros Garcia doesn't tend to play too much defense. They are brittle in terms of they get a few injuries. But again, if you compare them with other teams that you've mentioned, I think in central midfield, they're arguably only Arsenal. And you saw that in the last 50 minutes rival them really in terms of the power they have. You know, whenever Emery plays at Arsenal City, he always plays Kamara, Onana, McGinn, Tillemans, Rogers, and that's a really powerful midfield that will take him a long way.
- [21:48]
IO Akimolere
Okay, let's talk about goal scorers. I did mention Ollie Watkins, obviously. I think he's now on three for the season in the Premier League. He was on 1 in 13 before the Brighton game. Just shows how low his goal scor scoring has been this season. But we look at other Premier League scorers. Marlin, four goals. Buendia, four goals. Rodgers, three goals. Cass, three goals. Watkins, as I mentioned on three, they've shared the goals out, but do they have a reliable enough goal scorer to carry them all the way?
- [22:13]
Liam Tharm
Well, they do. And Ollie Watkins is back in form. Right? Is kind of the obvious point there. And I think kind of his creativity has been a really big asset for that team as well. You know, the fact they can have number tens to chip in. Had a really great kind of relationship with Morgan Rodgers of, you know what kins are liking to run the channel so well and having midfielders then that can crash the box, I think that's probably more of a strength than being purely reliant on one player. We've obviously seen this go kind of different ways where Arsenal tended to have a real kind of spread of goals. Manchester City became really reliant on Harland and now kind of balanced back a bit because Foden scoring more goals for them. So I think managers or coaches generally now prefer that spread of goals because if one player gets injured or they're just out of form or a team can defend them particularly well in one game, then suddenly I think you've just got way few avenues of attack. So I think it's probably a good thing.
- [22:54]
IO Akimolere
Do we focus too much on the reliable goal scorer? I mean, I'll use Arsenal as a a clear example just because I'm an Arsenal fan, of course. But Arsenal scored a lot of goals without Joker as being in the squad or Kai Havertz being in the squad. So you know, spreading the goals out is something I think a lot of really top coaches really look at as well.
- [23:12]
Jacob Tanzwa
Yeah, definitely. And I think it shows that it's more sustainable, I guess than just focusing on Harlem, for example, because if he gets injured then where's the goal is going to come from? I think this last week's been very important to Ollie Watkins. Okay, he only scored in the Brighton game but Villa XGs and provenance they're creating more chance. That has always been as long been the issue. And if you look at Watkins's statistics, okay, he'd only scored one in 18 actually across two seasons. But in September he had only seven touches in the box against Brighton alone he had seven touches. So the fact that if they can create more for him, it will go a long way in terms of he will get up to speed and there's a belief from him that he will get back up to speed in the hit a double figures this season. You see the difference when he's not playing. So even when he's not playing well, you don't think he's playing well. Donja Marlin is not a striker. That's another area that he's kind of a second forward and Marlin's great at impact can come on. He can act as a strike for 20 minutes but when you expect him to come, drop deep, link the play, do all the stubborn things that Ollie Watkins is so good at. You can see his susceptibilities basically. So I expect Watkins to improve, but it has certainly been a slow start for him.
- [24:18]
Liam Tharm
Jacob, I was reading the story about Watkins managing, I think knee pain for basically a candy or a season now. What's gone on with that?
- [24:24]
Jacob Tanzwa
That? Yeah, so it kind of started swelling up after the Euros I he came back and he had a week of preseason before the first league game and he actually has got a assist on his knee and it swirls the rest in the summer, they thought they could remove it. It's come up again. So at the moment he's kind of just managing minute. He doesn't train all the time and that's an issue that won't require surgery, but throughout the season it's going to require rest. So that's obviously impacted him and impacted his, his rhythm and form. But it's one of those that I think Emery and Villa are just trying to manage, but it's not helpful. And it's interesting really that they've gone public with this because if Watkins was sold in the summer or even January to Arsenal, Manchester United, they would have had to inherit those problems.
- [25:09]
IO Akimolere
All right, let's move to the defense because we've talked about Paul Torres, of course, spoken about Tyrone Mings and Konza, a solid defense. But if you compare it to Arsenal, Manchester City, Chelsea, I would say they're quite up there.
- [25:23]
Liam Tharm
Well, I don't know if Manchester City are up there anymore.
- [25:27]
IO Akimolere
City have been leaking goals.
- [25:30]
Liam Tharm
I think no one's touching Arsenal, so they're kind of somewhere in between. I mean, I was really intrigued looking at some of the numbers of when they score and concede goals this season that they finished first half really well, scored six in the final 15 minutes and only conceded once. But they're really bad starters. They've conceded five and not scored at all in the opening 50 minutes of games and won a lot by one goal. There have been a lot of kind of marginal wins. And again, it's another question for Jacob. So I apologize for putting you on the spot, but is there anything you think why they've been perhaps poor starters in games at all?
- [25:58]
Jacob Tanzwa
Yeah, I think ultimately both halves, they want to seek control and a lot of the time when they're playing badly, it looks like they're quite passive because, you know, you saw in the first half against Leeds, actually, Emery's game plan was to keep the ball to slow the play down. But when the other team are pressing you frantically, when they're trying to be on top of you, you actually look the team that are being passive and being quite timid. So I do think they need to improve on getting up to speed quicker and, and basically throwing a few punches back before they start to try and slow the game down. But what you've seen is their resilience. So in I think it's the last three or four away games, if when they've gone a goal behind, they've come back to win the game, it Started at Spurs, you saw it as brighter, you saw it against Leeds. So that shows that although they do have setbacks in games, they're far better at weathering storms now.
- [26:43]
IO Akimolere
Okay, well we've spoken about their record in the last ten matches at least. I guess it brings me on to my next point really is consistency fundamentally. Since March, no team has won more Premier League games than Aston Villa 17, which is brilliant actually. But they can't afford another five game win list straight like they did at the top of the season though. I mean it's quite fascinating does this squad, because I guess this kind of brings us back to depth in many respects. And I'll start with you on this, Jacob. Is there enough depth in this squad and that they're at the level right now to remain consistent till the end of the league? Top six for sure. But if we're talking we're pushing challenging.
- [27:21]
Jacob Tanzwa
Ultimately I don't think they'll be challenging for the Premier League, but they are consistent. You've seen really for three years, apart from that early season skid, they've been so consistent, right. Even when they have injuries. That year where they got Champions league, they had three ACLs, Kamara, Mings, Buendia. A lot of people don't realize that. They don't realize that the adversity they face, but they find a way to win games. There's a lot of games this season and XG is probably a byproduct of that, where they actually play well in that along parts of games. But in the key moments and the key passages, they win them. So I think that their ability to be resilient and to hang in games will mean that they won't go on these skids. They won't be at the top either, but they're certainly going to be in contention for a Champions League spot.
- [28:04]
IO Akimolere
Yeah, well, I mean one thing we haven't spoken about is the inconsistency of all the other teams around Federer as well. We look at how crowded it is in particular parts of the Premier League right now. So consistently recently they've been doing well and fundamentally that's what's made them climb to third in the league, I think.
- [28:18]
Liam Tharm
So the thing now is that a lot of teams having really big schedules and just various teams kind of, I think falling off a bit from their level or kind of where they're expected to be or where we anticipate them being. Even with Manchester United now still, they're kind of finding a bit of form, but it was very much the case of them and Tottenham last season. Liverpool, of course, just completely sliding, sliding down the league. So it's very much a case that the window kind of then opens up and gets a little bit bigger. Suddenly you actually don't have to. You know, we're saying the same thing now for, you know, Arsenal's title challenges, that you might not need to hit 90 points to win the title, which you might have done to be runners up in a previous season. So Villa can kind of maintain their level, as Jacob's talking about. That might be enough just because other teams get worse. And obviously league forms are relative. It depends what others are doing for what you need to achieve.
- [28:59]
IO Akimolere
I feel like I'm making the case for Villa to win the league here, here, Jacob. But I. I got to talk about their home form as well. I mean, look, no side in Europe has put together more home wins across the previous three years than Aston Villa. Since Arsenal's last visit in what, August, I think it's 2024, Villa have only been defeated twice at Villa park, and that's by Crystal Palace. No side in Europe has put together more home wins across the previous three years. I got to say that again, mate. Like, they. They're doing really well. And Unai Emery's kind of made that a bit of a fortress.
- [29:32]
Jacob Tanzwa
Emery's even had to learn the word fortress to really describe what. What actually means. It's remarkable. And, you know, Chubby's league nights and nights at Villa park are always great. They get a T fos. The atmosphere is really loud and it's very intimidating. And I think Emery's kind of gameplay has been structured around home wins. You know, away from home, they're very controlled. They kind of are quite passive and they feel the way into games out Villa Park. They sense the moment, especially when second half, when they're kicking towards a whole end, they really try and use that atmosphere to their advantage. And again, they can beat any team in Europe at home, unless it's Crystal Palace. You know, those two games, plus the FA cup semi final. Oliver Glasman has got some sort of spell over Unai Emery, but again, the fact that they've won more games at home in Europe in three years just shows that there is no team really that, that they fear. And they'll play and they'll go toe to toe for. With anyone at Villa Park. Maybe not away from about. Certainly at Villa Park. And you saw that with Arsenal and those last 15 minutes of that game where a lot of teams would probably think, you know, what a pointless league leaders is decent. Emery was rallying Emmy Martinez to throw the ball quickly out pushing for a goal. He sends that Arsenal tired and with Villa attacking towards a whole end, they had that spirit. There's something intangible where they felt like, you know what, we can win this game.
- [30:53]
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Jacob Tanzwa
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- [32:15]
Podcast Host (Athletic FC)
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akamolere.
- [32:19]
IO Akimolere
All right, let's talk about the manager himself because Emery is up against Arteta and obviously Pep Guardiola. You recently interviewed Villa midfielder Ross Barkley and he described Emery as one of the best managers in the world. I think we believe down we've actually spoken about this before. Perhaps an underrated manager by some, but I only think that's based on perhaps what he did at Arsenal and maybe psg. But you know, the shoes he had to fill in those teams were very, very different to the work he's doing here at Aston Villa.
- [32:48]
Jacob Tanzwa
Jacob yeah, and I think those two jobs also illuminated his weaknesses that we've just discussed before. In terms of he's not fantastic at managing upwards. He doesn't really care for anything outside his immediate orbit in terms of with other staff and making sure that every all the alignments Connected throughout a club. He's purely, you know, I know he's got a lot of authority and sway at Villa, but he is fundamentally a head coach. Arsenal and psg, there are a lot more politics. He didn't have the control deal had the club shaped in his image and he didn't probably have the personality or maybe the language barrier certainly at Arsenal.
- [33:21]
IO Akimolere
Got actually better since those. Yeah, you're right.
- [33:24]
Jacob Tanzwa
To exact his influence where now he's obviously, the club's been built around him. He's now got people in his support network that can kind of offset his weaknesses, can look after the things that he's not too good at, where fundamentally allows him just to be the best coach he can be. And again, I, I repeat it pound for pound, I think he's been performing better than any other Premier League manager this season, especially after the first five games and how he's found solutions. And really, if you look at his cv, he might be underrated, but it's four Europa League titles, this could be a fifth this year. What he's done with this Villa team, Villarreal, Sevilla, he's made these certain level of clubs, maybe wanting to go into Europe, into Champions League and he's elevated them. And he's also been a head coach that makes such a difference to those type of clubs like Aston Villa. And probably there isn't another manager more suited than Emery to Aston Villa.
- [34:14]
IO Akimolere
Yeah, I've always thought he's the kind of guy that needs to be a fighter as opposed to be at the top of the food chain. And actually that's where he embeds his best ideas. You think about Sevilla, you think about Villarreal as well. You think about what he's. Than Villa, a bit more control, bit more opportunity to really tweak things. That really benefits his kind of manager, doesn't it?
- [34:34]
Liam Tharm
I think so. Someone that seems to kind of make a group almost more. More than the sum of its parts, if you like. And I think the real success now is how long he's been at Villa. I think he developed a reputation in some of his previous jobs to kind of capping out after kind of one, two, three seasons that, you know, he kind of have these almost bit like a shock impact that his style was kind of so clear and could very quickly kind of raise the level. But it would kind of get to a couple seasons in and teams would go, oh, okay, well, we know what, you know, this team and Emery team wants to do. We know how they're going to play, We've played against them before and teams get better at playing against them and then they kind of, I think just start to plateau. But to not see that now I think is a, you know, a real sign of. Sign of success for him as well as the club. I think that are also in a weird spot because obviously they're historically a very big club with European trophies and silver and success there. But you know, you have to go back to the, the very late 2000s. I know Martin O' Neill for when they were last finishing consecutively this high in kind of multiple back to back to back seasons. They've got back to the FA cup semi finals now. And yeah, obviously the weird quirk of playing across all the European competitions as well, which, you know, they hadn't been. They've been in the championship more recently than they've been in European football before Emery came in. So compared to where they were when they first got promoted again after quite a lengthy kind of spell in the championship as well, yeah, I think it's outstanding success.
- [35:46]
IO Akimolere
Okay, let's talk about January super quickly. Jacob Fair to say the summer was quite underwhelming for Aston Villa, but what about a January in the window? What were we thinking?
- [35:54]
Jacob Tanzwa
Thinking it's going to be fairly difficult again. And the thing about Emery as well is that because he's got such authority, the sporting director, which is now Roberto Alabi ahead of Monchi, Emery has the final say, he's got all the power. And that means that in a single day, in a single out, he can pivot transfer plans. So it's very difficult to anticipate what they, what they going to do. What they will try is they'll try and sign a striker, preferably young, or sign an attacker. Emery loves these versatile players that can play anywhere off the front or as a number nine. And then you're going to have the situation of Harvey Elliott, whether he goes back to Liverpool, whether he stays and sees the season out at Aston Villa. So there's not huge room. But I do think if Villa are in a good spot towards the end of that January window in terms of league position, they might do similar to what they did last season. I thought, okay, we're going to try and almost gamble in a way by signing the likes of Marcus Rashford on to Sassy and Asensio and really try and push for that Chabisley. Because if they get Chabis le league this season, their revenues, what they can do next summer will increase exponentially.
- [36:59]
IO Akimolere
All right, let's talk about the supporters very quickly. I was chatting to a Villa fan on the weekend and what a win for. For Aston Villa, actually. And he basically sent me this picture of his, his young son literally singing the Villa chant. And he was like, you know what? This kid's never seen pain. This is all he knows. Unai emerit era. Fair to say that the fans are relatively satisfied with the way the season's going right now.
- [37:22]
Jacob Tanzwa
Now, yeah, Emery's a D in those parts, right. I think even if they're in the relegation zone, they still still love him. And you know, I've never seen pain as covering Aston Villa. I've been there for three years now. Every single year they've qualified for some sort of European competition. So it's all rose in the garden and I'm sure that that young lad enjoyed the game as much as you are.
- [37:40]
IO Akimolere
Yeah, don't do that to me.
- [37:41]
Jacob Tanzwa
Don't do that.
- [37:42]
IO Akimolere
All right, let's leave it there. Jake, appreciate your time. Liam, thanks for joining us. And also thank you guys for listening as well. We'll be back tomorrow.
- [37:52]
Podcast Host (Athletic FC)
You've been listening to the Athletic FC podcast. The producers are Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beale. Executive producers are Abby Patterson and Aid Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, including our dedicated club shows, Search for the Athletic and all the usual places. You'll also find us on YouTube at the Athletic FC Podcast, so make sure you subscribe. The Athletic FC Podcast is an athletic media company. Production.
- [38:28]
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Liam Tharm
Good idea.
- [39:10]
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- [39:13]
Jacob Tanzwa
Thanks, random singing people.
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- [39:25]
IO Akimolere
Please play responsibly.
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