Loading summary
Transcript89 lines
- [00:00]
LinkedIn Advertiser
Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority, skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results click on Terms and Conditions Apply.
- [00:30]
Aura Advertiser
This podcast is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura is an all in one digital safety solution that monitors the dark web for your phone number, email and Social Security number, sending real time alerts if your info is found. It also includes a vpn, password manager and data broker removal. To help keep you safe for a limited time, Aura is offering a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety. That's Aura.com safety to sign up and protect your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [01:23]
Noah Chestnut
Hey, it's Noah Chestnut from the Athletic. If you're into games and sports, pay attention. I'm going to give you four sports terms. You tell me the common thread. Ready? Game. Match point. Set. This one's kind of a gimme. The answer is how tennis is scored. Do you want more of a challenge? Check out Connections Sports Edition. It's a new daily game for sports fans to play. Now go to TheAthletic.com connections.
- [01:59]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [02:06]
Ayo Akimolere
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. Brentford's dynamic duo have lit up the Premier League once again this season.
- [02:14]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Whisper. That should do it.
- [02:19]
Jay Harris
They've struck up such a partnership this.
- [02:22]
Ayo Akimolere
Season again, but with Thomas Frank admitting Brian Mbuomo could be sold this summer, what does the future hold for him and his strike partner, Johan Wiesser? Joining me today, we've got Jay Harris and we've also got Liam Tharm as well. Jay, let's talk about Brentford. I was thinking, you know, when Ivor Tony left, what would they do? Would they go in and buy someone else or would they carry on doing what they've done? And look, wissa and Buemo, 18 goals already this season individually. I mean that is quite interesting, but also how Thomas Frank has managed to mold this team in their likeness.
- [02:59]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Well, they did sign someone to replace Ivan Toney before he'd even left the building, but he just got injured straight away in preseason. Igor Thiago. So maybe if Thiago had been fit, the season would have played out slightly differently. But what I hope people haven't forgotten is that when Tony was banned for breaching the FA's gambling rules, that first half of the 2324 season and Bumo and Visa started really well, they went on this. I can't remember what the number is off the top of my head, but they went on this run of games where every time Tony wasn't playing, one of them would score. And then their momentum was completely disrupted that season by Mbo suffering an ankle injury in, in December and he was out for three months. And Brenford, for the rest of that season it was just about survival. Whereas this season they've both been pretty much available, I think, for every game. I know Mbumo started all 36 games in the Premier League this season, so it's been about. They've been consistently available. Thomas Frank, if you look back to when he first started as a head coach at Brenford, he had that dynamic front free of Neil, Mo, Brian and Bumo Oe Watkins side Ben Rama as well. And I always think that's his favorite type of center forward. A Watkins esque profile who's a bit of a hybrid. He can run the channels, he can play centrally, he can play out wide. Watkins is a converted winger. That's not to downplay Tony Stremps, but Brentford adapted to Tony. I think it suited them their first couple of seasons in the Premier League. But now I think the way Brentford is set up with Charda as well, it's a more dynamic, fluid, unpredictable front three. And I think that suits Brentford better and I think it suits FR far better as well.
- [04:28]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, Brentford's touching European football potentially this season. Liam. I mean, talk to us about how Thomas Frank has made it work. Jay's alluded to some of it there, but also to get these two working really well and the goals and the output is actually quite impressive.
- [04:40]
Jay Harris
Yeah, I think it's a sign of how good he is as a coach, really. I mean there's the benefit, I think massively that he's been there for so long now that the structure is definitely there. Remember, he's speaking after the the draw against Arsenal earlier on this season and was saying that, you know, MBA is the, the second sort of winger he's converted to a striker with sort of decent success with. With Watkins of course, sort of first. And it's that adaptability within systems. He, he. It's a great buzzword you hear from impress conferences a lot, which is layers sort of wanting to join us. He's heard it a million times. It's kind of a Thomas Frank bingo. It's great. But all he's really talking about there, sort of adding on that attacking side, developing Brenford from, you know, a team who, you know, when they were first in the Premier League were phenomenal against sort of the big six teams could play that three, five, two, drop into a back five. You know, kind of got that notorious set piece sort of tag that came with it and which was largely complimentary, but I guess their, their theory was. And it makes sense that look, if you just do that all the time, your ceiling might not be eighth place in the Premier League with two games to go. So you look at the team now and the way they play, it's very much a 4, 3, 3. You've got normally a winger and Keane, Lewis, Potter filling in at left back, who I know isn't the topic of this pod, but it just goes to show how attacking they are. And I think, you know, they've been particularly good. They had a great start at home, especially this season, really being really vertical in a league now where so many teams play a high line and try to be aggressive and I think that's really sort of benefited them. They've got that, that pace up top, those quick wingers now and Boma being one of them and they such fluidity. I remember Jay and I spoke before about sort of Tony's strengths being really specific and you kind of have to play a certain way, but you've got a bit more freedom with perhaps Mbuomo and Vista this time.
- [06:09]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay, well, let's focus on Mbuomo himself. 18 goals and 7 assists in 36 games for him this season. Jay, what makes him so special? You know, as a player they got from Troyes quite a few years ago and still won them in the championship, I imagine. And then obviously he's grown with this team in various iterations of this team actually. What is it that catches the eye of potential buyers when it comes to Brian Mbuomo?
- [06:32]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
I think Mbumo has always been quite talented, so I believe he made his debut for Trois when they were in League One. When he was 18 and then they got relegated. He had a good season and that's why Brentford signed him. And he had a really good first season in the Championship, second season, maybe underperformed slightly. But firstly with Mbumo, he's a very, very hard worker. And I think that's what some people don't quite realize. He works as hard off the ball as he does on it. Secondly, his positional versatility is, is quite astounding. We've already alluded to the fact that previously he played in a 2 with Tony in a 352 system. He mainly plays on the right wing. I've seen him play as a really aggressive wing back in a 3, 4, 3 system for Brentford. So you'll know you're getting a very intelligent player who can adapt to different roles within a team. And he's worked incredibly hard. You know, when I speak to people at Brentford, you know, I said, oh, what's the secret behind a boomer? And they say there's no secret. He just works hard, he pays for his own chef, he does all the, the tiny details. Right. And I think the, the best way you can prove that is that first season in the Premier League. Well, I think I went to every Brentford game that season. He was so frustrating. So let, let me get this right. He scored four goals from an XG of 9.3 in 35 appearances. He hit the woodwork league high seven times. So he was just someone who was a bit erratic. But he was still only 21, 22 years old. He needed the, the space and the time to grow and develop. And every single season he's just got better and better and better. This season he's got 18 goals in the league from an XG of 11. So he's gone from underperforming massively to over performing it, which is quite astounding. And I was also thinking about what's changed with Mbumo. And the biggest change is Tony leaving. And I know that sounds so simple.
- [08:10]
Ayo Akimolere
Oh, I know what you mean. I know what you mean.
- [08:12]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
But I think I have to point out that it's not just about what Tony did on the pitch. Tony was a cult of personality. We all know that. When Eriksen was at Brentford, everybody spoke about Eriksen. Otherwise it was the Ivan Toney Show. And it wasn't just about the goals, it was the celebrations. I remember the first goal he scored in the Premier League was against Aston Villa away. And Tony's celebration was a wind up to the Villa fans because he basically made this Gesture that links to Birmingham City. You know, when he comes back from his ban, he scores a free kick. The spotlight was drawn to Ivan Toney all the time. So Mbumo, even when he was playing well, he wasn't the center of conversation. And so I think him leaving has just allowed other people to flourish because no one's talking about Ivan Tony anymore. And it sounds so simple but I think that's quite a key element of it.
- [08:54]
Ayo Akimolere
By taking something out of it might allow certain other players to step forward. But you know what, it's still not always guaranteed. But actually this is a player you can see incrementally through his stats has got better and better over the seasons.
- [09:07]
Jay Harris
I think so and that's kind of the profile, right that has really come to fruition in the last few years in the Premier League. Maybe now it's shifting back towards that goal scoring number nine. But you had that season a few years ago where son and Salah shared the golden boot and that kind of, you know, everyone wanted the wide goal scorer, the player that could kind of do do both parts of the game there. And I don't think you can underestimate his creativity either that he's so good at functioning in as Joe was saying, sort of various different positions or you can look at Wisser and Tony as two really different types of striker as well and saying he can complement either really, really well. And there's not, I think a huge number of players you can say that about where he gets really good numbers and his output's great. As Joe was mentioning not being very clinical early on in the Premier League, he's kind of gone the other way now. I think he's about seven goals over his xg so he's found a shooting boot and maybe that's partly through playing so consistently. He's the regular penalty taker now as well and has scored his penalties well which of going to boost that goal number up. And again partly because Tony's left. So yeah, I think quite a few things have all kind of happened in quick succession which is contributed to.
- [10:03]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
There's also from, I believe he replaced Tony in Brentford's senior leadership in the dressing room. So even something like that he's now been bestowed with more responsibility and you know when their first season in the Premier League he was probably one of the youngest players in the team. Now he's one of their peak age players in the team. So that alone it's like okay, well prove yourself that you're the man now. I'm sure Thomas Frank would have said that. He would have said, ivan's gone now, Buemo, I want you to be number one. Show me what you got.
- [10:28]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, for sure. I want to talk about what he's like off the pitch in just a sec, Jay. But Mbuema is basically quoted to say he didn't even know Brentford were when they first came in for him. Due respect, if you're playing in the second league in France, maybe you wouldn't. But, you know, I'm just wondering what it is about this system and also their scouting's brilliant at Brentford, we've spoken about that before, that really gets great results out of players. Is it Thomas Frank himself, is he that convincing to spin it around? But also I wonder what the pitch is. You know, come to us, you play good football and potentially actually this might not be your end result, but other clubs will be looking at you if you're shining.
- [11:00]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
So when I did the documentary on Brentford a couple of years ago, spoke to some of the senior players who've been around a little bit longer, including Norgaard, told me quite a funny story that. So Brentford moved to their new stadium in 2020 and they upgraded their training ground in December 2022 during the World cup. And before then, the facilities at Griffin park were dilapidated and well put. The training ground at Jersey Road was basically a collection of a cabin. So what the senior figures at the club would do, the directors of football, Phil Giles Rafsankerson, technical director Lee Dykes. They'd often meet players and their agents in hotels or slightly nicer locations around Richmond and Brentford and West London. They wouldn't really take them to the. The training ground or the stadium. That's changed now.
- [11:44]
Ayo Akimolere
People listening in America. Richmond is very upmarket.
- [11:47]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Well, Ted Lasso, they'll. They'll know. They'll know about it through that. So it doesn't really surprise me that Buemo didn't know of Brentford and he probably wasn't shown Griffin park and where he was going to play. But in terms their pitch, Brentford's pitches are quite legendary. When I speak to sources, what they do is they'll analyze up to 100 games, sometimes of a player and they'll color code it so it'll be green for a good performance and red for a bad one. And I think players and their representatives really value the constructive criticism that they receive. And also, if you're in Bumo and you're playing in the the second division of France, you're probably not thinking that someone's going to go in with that analytical and so that alone you probably appreciate. And then Brentford and Thomas Frank has said this many times, are a selling club. And Thomas Frank will say there's probably only 10 clubs in the world that aren't a selling club. You know, Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc, they know where they are in football's food chain and so they'll tell players and they can give the example. We had Ben Rama for a couple of years. He moved on, he went to West Ham. We had Ollie Watkins for a couple of years. He moved to Aston Villa. He became an England international. Ivan Tony joined us. He, you know, scored 20 goals in the Premier League. He became an England international. He got a massive move to Saudi Arabia. So you can clearly see that when it's right for Brentford, they will not block a player's pathway. Of course at times they'll want to keep that player but they also know when the time is right they'll say, okay, thank you for your service and we'll find to let you go. And maybe that will happen this summer because Mbuma has been there for six years now.
- [13:11]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, for sure. Let's peel behind the curtain a little bit. What's he like away from the pitch? I've seen several interviews with Mbuemu and he cuts a shy figure. I wonder if he's like that off the pitch. He seems quite analytical to me anyway, but I don't know what you see.
- [13:26]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Yeah, no, he is quite a quiet guy. Quite a shy guy. He plays the piano at Brentford's training ground. There's videos on their social media. I know he's quite big into chess as well. He plays a lot of video games and he livestreams them on Twitch so it seems like sometimes keeps himself to himself. But the exception to that rule would be Visser. They've got a fantastic relationship off the pitch. I don't know if they're exactly next door neighbors but they live extremely close to each other. It might be a couple of doors down. This kids, I believe call him Uncle Brian. I've seen them all leave.
- [13:53]
Ayo Akimolere
That's very Africa though.
- [13:54]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
It's very, very Afro Caribbean. I've seen them like all leave the the stadium together in a big group. So yeah, he's quite a quiet person. The opposite of of Tony in that sense. But one thing Thomas Frank has also always said from the first time I started covering them back in first season when they're in the Premier League. August 2021. So Mbumo's always been a fantastic trainer and so that sends a message to other people in the team. It just shows you how focused he is. You know, even back in the day when they first signed him in 2019, they thought he'd be a good player, but he's never allowed that to. He's never got carried away with that. He's always been disciplined and worked hard.
- [14:31]
Ayo Akimolere
Is there a potential for him to go any further? I'm talking about, you know, top five teams. The signs are there, but I don't know if the stats will tell us that he can take it to the next level.
- [14:40]
Jay Harris
I think so. It's always about a scalability thing where you're maybe then looking at perhaps a grealish style move where people then get very frustrated or upset that he perhaps won't play that exact same role. Because if you went to a big six Premier League team or you know, top European side, you're probably not going to be the main attacker in the same way that you were elsewhere. And there might be issues with that in terms of he's getting the ball and a bit less and fewer opportunities throughout a game that might impact him. Obviously it might be balanced out by playing in a more possession dominant team than Brentford, but you look at the range of goals that he scores, you know, the capacity to create, as I said, as well as score. I think he's already added sort of that back post run to his game this season. Seems to do really well to not just be a case of stand wide, get the ball cut inside 1v1, you know, I think actually finished off both feet quite well. So I think there'll be a lot of clubs that will look at him as a profile where they go. We could use that in a way. And there's not, you know, again, he can be a player that perhaps fits into a variety of systems rather than certain clubs saying, no, no, we need someone with this very specific bespoke skill set that would work for us.
- [15:33]
Ayo Akimolere
There's also a player that does well with a good centre forward as well, do you know what I mean? Like that link up play. Take Viserat, the equation. Is he still that dominant player?
- [15:41]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
I think so because there were times last season where Visser was injured and Mbumo still carried Brentford. So I think he's just got the all round qualities where no matter what system he's put in, he'll do a job. And there are teams that need a very specific type of right winger this summer, which Liam alluded to where they're very good 1v1 cutting inside. There are teams you need maybe a deep runner and he can do all of those different things. He can play maybe not to the same level centrally, but he could be an option for teams. So that versatility to cover multiple roles and it's certainly something that clubs tend to be more aware of these years, is something that definitely puts him up there.
- [16:18]
Jay Harris
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with I.O. accamulere.
- [16:25]
LinkedIn Advertiser
Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority, skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results terms and conditions apply.
- [16:55]
Ziply Advertiser
When the Moore family ditched cable Internet and switched to Zigly Fiverr, they got so much more. Mr. Moore got more upload speed for next level gaming and live streaming to the masses. With reliable service, Mrs. Moore is no longer her family's IT guru, leaving her more time to stream games into overtime. Let's go. And young Mason Moore got more done quickly uploading HD product demos and video conferencing without FreeSync, the numbers look good.
- [17:18]
Brad
Brad, you're on mute.
- [17:19]
Ziply Advertiser
Switch from cable Internet to ziply Fiverr and get more of what you love for $65 less per month than cable.
- [17:24]
Brad
At ziply fiverr.com@hotels.com we know some travelers crave sand between their toes. Others want to be poolside with a drink on the way and more. Those two people end up in a relationship. With the Hotels.com app, compare properties side by side across amenities like pool and ocean view. Compromise isn't so bad when you're holding a Mai Tai bio pool with an ocean view. Agreeing that yeah, this is better than finding sand in awkward places for three days. Book now in the hotels.com app and find your perfect somewhere.
- [18:02]
Thomas Frank
I'm the head coach. I want all my best players to stay forever. I know that Brian is very happy being here at Brentford. He's thriving, he's doing well, he's playing fantastic. What happened in the future? I don't know. I said many times we are selling club, but it's also to reinforce that there's maybe 10 clubs in the world that are not selling clubs. So of course if the right price and that's going to be expensive is coming, then I'm Pretty sure that the club will be open for it.
- [18:36]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. That was Thomas Frank speaking about the future of Brian Mbuemo in an interview with Sky Sports. Jay Brentford are very much open to the fact that he might leave. But you know, do they really block players from leaving? We spoke about it earlier. You know, I'm thinking about how they've dealt with Tony. You look at David Raya most recently and even with Tony one, it was a tricky one because obviously the ban for a while. I personally thought they priced him a bit too high at the time, which might have stopped potential buyers. There was a lot of stuff in the background, obviously, but you know, this is a player you can tell that they probably know will be going at some point. But how will they deal with that?
- [19:14]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
I don't know if they priced Tony too high. What happened was Thomas Frank was asked hypothetically how much Ivan Tony.
- [19:20]
LinkedIn Advertiser
I remember, yeah.
- [19:21]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
And he said that if number six is Declan rice and Caicedo are going for £100 million.
- [19:26]
Jay Harris
It broke the market, didn't it? That's silly. Yeah.
- [19:29]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
The strikers are normally more expensive. So I think this is a really big summer for Brentford because with Raya and Toney, although there were slightly different situations, they were both allowed to enter the final year of their contract. So Brentford's club record sale for a long time was Watkins to Villa, which I think was about 28 million pounds with 5 million pounds in add ons. So you're looking at 33 million. I think Raya went for 30 million with add ons and Tony went for just over maybe 35 with add ons. Now, considering Watkins was a championship player at that time. Antonio and Raya left Brentford as internationals who'd appeared at major international tournaments, who'd had two or three years of Premier League football under their belts. They've gone for under their market value and I think they cannot allow that to happen with Buemo and Visser as well. Now Wemo and Visser are both have one year left on their contract, but both have one year option. So I think that gives Brentford a layer of security. But this is the summer where they either need to get them to sign extended deals or they need to say, right, we need to sell them this summer. And of course the Tony thing was complicated by the ban. I think everybody in an ideal world would have said goodbye Tony at the end of that 20, 23 season when he'd been performing exceptionally, exceptionally well. And it, you know, it damaged his career and it probably damaged Brentford in terms of the money they could get. So I think this summer they'll be very aware of the fact that, I mean, I'd be shocked if they're both there at the start of next season. One of them might be, but I'd be shocked if they're both there. And the same applies to Kevin Charter because he's had a very good end to the season and there's been rumored interest in him before. So I think it's going to be challenging for them to lose them and replace them, but I think it's something they probably know has been coming.
- [21:05]
Jay Harris
Now, if Jay will allow me to present an alternative argument to cashing in now, they obviously had a really, really good second season in the Premier League, got a really good number of points and were in European contention, I think, until quite late. Now they're currently in eighth spot and we're recording this obviously before the FA cup final. So if Crystal Padus beats City, that will mean that eighth spot doesn't go to whoeverford. It won't be a European spot, but City will probably be favourites in that game. There's good reason to think, okay, Brentford could. And they're currently in that lead position. We're looking very feasibly at a situation where Brentford will have European football for, correct me if wrong, Jay, the first time in club history. And that one has to be an attractive thing to keep players to acquire players. Even if you do want to, as you say, cash in on Mboemo and Visse, the calibre of player you should be able to attract should be even greater. Of course, you need to add in terms of the squad depth.
- [21:50]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
I don't know.
- [21:50]
Jay Harris
They've had some injuries, especially in defence this season, which again is kind of the reason for Lewis Potter and other makeshift things that at fullback Christopher I too. So there'll be different demands and squad building there in terms of how the model works and how you scale that up to European level. But I think you're looking at a time where you say they'll always or not always, that's perhaps a bit disrespectful. But they can't quickly change that selling model. They don't need to. But I think, yeah, they're definitely at a moment where you could say this is the least they've ever needed to sell. And perhaps the biggest reason why they might stay might be saying, okay, if you've got European football, then perhaps a Spurs or Manchester United that might be realistic options is a natural step up next season might not actually be in terms of the competitions you can play in.
- [22:28]
Ayo Akimolere
Good point, actually. And you brought me on just slightly to my next question is that what teams are there in the Premier League, if we're looking at the Premier League, would suit the style of a player like Mbuemo.
- [22:39]
Jay Harris
I thought for a long time he was a Salah replacement at Liverpool. Obviously he's now just signed a new contract. Yeah, yeah. He's perhaps the kind of profile you think in comparison to a Brennan Johnson that Tottenham could really do with to sort of fill that role of obviously Rez. That's another special subject for Jay, but an option there. But then you kind of think Arsenal probably not one in the Premier League just because of Saka. It just doesn't quite fit. Yeah, there's a lot of teams that probably haven't got a right winger of Mboma's quality that you go. There's definitely a market there, I think.
- [23:09]
Ayo Akimolere
Do you think he's at that level where he has to be a starter wherever he goes next? It can't be an understudy because sometimes you go to the bigger teams and you just got to wait it out a little bit.
- [23:18]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Yeah, definitely. Well, 18 goals in the Premier League. You can't move to another club and be coming off the bench for Sakura or Salah. He's earned the right to be given an opportunity at bigger teams. Also Cameroon international. Right. So he's got that pedigree. And maybe two years ago, if he'd left, I could have understood it a little bit more. But I think the first half of last season before he got injured, where he's exceptional and the entirety of this season mean that he deserves to be number one wherever he goes.
- [23:43]
Ayo Akimolere
I'm so interested, you know, if. If he's to go and actually you've spoken about. You think there's a big chance he'll go this. This summer. What kind of money are we thinking? No, no, no. Lie. No. I looked at transfer market and you know the way they sort of like to track a player's progression in terms of money.
- [24:02]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Don't. Don't tell us the number. Okay.
- [24:04]
Ayo Akimolere
This is what I was thinking. I want to see how close you get to it from transfer market. He's probably looked at it anyway because that's what he does. Have you?
- [24:10]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
No.
- [24:10]
Jay Harris
Okay, cool.
- [24:11]
Ayo Akimolere
What was she pick Genuinely.
- [24:14]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
So if we'll talk about Mbuemo first because then we also need to come on to the topic of Vista. So Buemo turns 26 in August. So he's about to enter the peak years of his career. So you're getting a great investment. You look at the fees that other wingers have gone for in the last few years. You know, the name that immediately jumps out is Mudrick, who went for similar, and Anthony, who went for similar amounts. And they had no Premier League experience. So I don't think it'd be unreasonable for Brentford to say, minimum 65, 70 million. Oh, I think that's fair.
- [24:45]
Ayo Akimolere
Oh, Liam, what you say?
- [24:47]
Jay Harris
Well, I think so. Brendan Johnson going from Forest to Spurs. So within a Premier League movie, probably add on a few more. I think he was up into the 50s, so I think you can add on an extra percent from that. So 70.
- [25:01]
Ayo Akimolere
I mean, you guys have marked it much higher. They put him down as 50 million euros.
- [25:05]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Wow.
- [25:05]
Jay Harris
For context, I think the way transfer marks values work for anyone that's not actually familiar with it is like, fans can go on and it's like an amalgamation of people say, how much do you think this player is worth? It's not some kind of, like, model saying from his goal number that can go up. So, yeah, as Jay mentioned, you know, that's half what some wingers go for or close to now.
- [25:22]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Also, Brentford would ask themselves if people were offering 50, 55 million pounds from women this summer, let's say they get into the Europa Conference League, they'd be saying, is it worth us selling him for £55 million and have to replace.
- [25:35]
Ayo Akimolere
Him if he shines in that tournament?
- [25:36]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Or would we rather keep him and try and do an absolute madness and win and go as deep in that competition as we can do? And I think because that would, you know, Brentford were in League Two, I think, 15 years ago, 12 years ago. So for them to even be in the Europa. In contention for a Europa Conference League spot is wild. And I think they'd say, actually, do you know what, we're having a time of our lives. Maybe we'll just keep him and see what we can do.
- [26:05]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, for sure. And before we move on, Liam, we have to talk about Visa. Honestly, what a season he's having. Eighteen goals, similar to Brighton Buemer, three assists in the Premier League. It's different kind of player to win Buemo, but just as effective. But also, I think just before we were, we started the pod, it got me thinking, does he attract as much attention as Bjorn and Buemo? Just as prolific, but probably in terms of the world of football, not as attractive.
- [26:30]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
No.
- [26:30]
Jay Harris
But I think that just comes down to what people like to see, right, which is a player probably getting on the ball Be prepared to go at someone1v1 and boymo sort of running numbers as Jay mentioned are off the charts. He's sort of top three, top five for sort of a sprint distance. His high intensity running I think Vis and naturally has to be a bit smarter about his game where he's getting in smart positions to score, to link play and as you said they're very different which is I think really why they complement each other so, so well. But I think you'd be silly to, you know, I'm looking at the top scores just in front of me now. There's only four players with more goals than either of them. I think they were the first team this season and Frank mentioned it in a post match press conference to have two players with 15 plus. I'm always amazed at how tuned into the stats he is. Thomas Frank, obviously it's his job and you expect managers to but he reels stuff sort of straight off, you know, off the tongue so easily. Chris Wood, Haaland Alexander Isaac and Mo Salah are the only players with more goals and obviously three of those are out and out number nines. Visser I'd say really when you look at his shot map he just chances wise is that kind of player. But I think maybe because he's a bit smaller, bit more mobile. I'm thinking about the goal he scored away to Arsenal where it was a really nice sort of hooked finish off a set piece that there's real range to what he can do there. I maybe I think age counts a tiny bit against him. So he's, he's close to 29 now. He's 28 until he's 29 obviously but, but he is probably I guess a couple years ahead of him by my age wise might turn clubs off a little bit just because of resale value and not that it should because obviously you know you look at Wood Isaac in that, in that group there not exactly young players but I think that's a phenomenal return.
- [27:52]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Visser had a bit of a super sub tag attached to him in his first couple of years at Brentford because he was sensational off the bench but when he's starting in games just don't think he had the fitness to do what was required off the ball for a full 90 minutes and I think that's one of the biggest changes over the last few years. As Liam's mentioned, he's quite slight, he's very mobile but he's actually very good at dropping deep and holding up the ball surprisingly good and always felt that when it was Tony and Bouman Visser, when they were at the club altogether, you could make a strong argument that Visa was the most natural finisher. I think Tony had improved massively over the years and he scored some spectacular goals. But I actually think in and around the box Visser was maybe a little bit better. Even the goal he scored against Forest a couple of weeks ago, I'm pretty certain he chips Dean Henderson, doesn't he? Like he he's very clever left footed and right footed and so with Visser I think he's, he's definitely better at playing down the middle than in Buemo. So I almost wonder if teams are more interested in in him because he can quite naturally play on the left or the center. I think Mbumo is very good on the right, you wouldn't play him through the middle as often. And we know that Nottingham Forest did bid for Visser in January and I know a couple of other teams inquired about him but were told by Brentford no chance. I just wonder what will happen with with Visser in the summer because I think I was chatting to Art de Roche, our good friend about this before and he said he was quite keen for Arsenal to go in for Visser in January because peak age player, similar transfer to Trossard when he went 28. Someone who is a win now player. And I wonder if there are a couple of clubs who might look at Visser and think okay, it's 29 in September. A year left with an extra option on this deal. So technically two years. Could you get him for the 3540 million pound bracket and is he a.
- [29:38]
Ayo Akimolere
Win 15 goals a season here and.
- [29:40]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Is he a win now option And I think that's something to keep an eye on this summer.
- [29:54]
Aura Advertiser
If you're a parent or share a fridge with someone. Instacart is about to make grocery shopping so much easier because with family carts you can share a cart with your partner and each add the items you want. Since between the two of you, odds are you'll both remember everything you need. And this way you'll never have to eat milkless cereal again. So minimize the stress of the weekly shop with family carts. Download the Instacart app and get delivery in as fast as 30 minutes. Plus enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees apply for three orders in 14 days. Excludes restaurants.
- [30:29]
LinkedIn Advertiser
Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? Well, with LinkedIn ads you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. You can even target buyers by job title. Industry company seniority skills. Wait, did I say job title yet? Get started today and see how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started at LinkedIn.com results terms and conditions apply.
- [30:59]
Aura Advertiser
This podcast is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura is an all in one digital safety solution that monitors the dark web for your phone number, email and Social Security number, sending real time alerts if your info is found. It also includes a vpn, password manager and data broker removal to help keep you safe for a limited time. Aura is offering a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety that's Aura aura.com safety to sign up and protect your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.
- [31:56]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akumalara.
- [32:04]
Ayo Akimolere
Let'S talk about Thomas Frank because, you know, are we surprised? There's not much more noise about him staying or leaving Brentford. You know, wait a minute. Brentford are eighth in the Premier League, potentially European football this season, which is impressive for the size of that club. We've always said he deserves a chance to manage at another level. What are you thinking about this?
- [32:24]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
That's why I'm not surprised anymore. I was having these exact same conversations two years ago when Brentford finished ninth. So he obviously came close to getting the Chelsea job last year. We know he was in the running for that and Enzo Maresca got in there ahead of him. I was a bit, bit surprised by that decision. I think Frank's evolution as a manager during his time at Brentford sort of proved that he deserves an opportunity to, to operate with bigger resources and better players. So I'm not as surprised anymore. I still think he deserves that. What he's done this season just underlines that they had a wobble last season with injuries. They've come back really strongly, which I think is the measure of a manager that they've had difficulties. They learned to adapt. You know, Liam's mentioned a few times he's converted Keane, Lewis, Potter into the most unlikely left back Going and Lewis Potter's had a fantastic season. They've been without their first choice, left back and right back Rico Henry and Aaron Hickey for about 18 months now. Hickey's not played since October 2023. I think Rico Henry's only played a couple of times. So for a manager to be able to cope and adapt and find new solutions with that, I think is remarkable. So I also think that, as you said, he's been at Brentford since December 2016 as an assistant. He's been head coach since October 2018. So coming up to seven years, he has a fantastic relationship with the director of football, Phil Giles, with the owner, Matthew Benham, and he said a few times before that it would be easy for anybody to be a good manager at Brentford because of the environment and the culture and the way it's set up. And I do think part of him knows I'm never going to have it as good as I've got at Brentford in terms of my relationship upwards and my relationship with the squad. So I think sometimes he thinks, is the grass always greener on the other side? And he has alluded to that before. I think I remember him saying that exact same phrase in an interview with me last year. I remember when Graham Potter was appointed by Chelsea Thomas Frank was so complimentary about that. I can't remember what the word for word, the exact quote was, but he said something along the lines of they could have taken the easy route and appointed Zidane or Pochettino. Spoiler alert. They then did. But he was so enthused that Potter had been given a chance. And I think they get unreasonably well anyways. And then the moment Potter was sacked in his press conferences, Frank's tone changed. I think he suddenly realized, you know, you can be a very successful manager. An upwardly mobile Premier League club who are in the. The middle of the table trying to break into that top eight, top six bracket and your reputation can be torched within six months. And I think he. He looked at that and thought, okay, maybe I'm not as keen to jump ship now.
- [34:48]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah. You surprised it's not been linked with any bigger jobs?
- [34:50]
Jay Harris
No. To the point that Jay's kind of made. Yeah. About kind of the sweet spot. He's. And I think the Potter one is a great example of. Of, you know, he's seen other coaches take that risk and sort of gone, okay, that's the way this can play out. And you go, look, there's. There's two ways of them being a head Coach or a manager at a European team, either you get hired by one or you make the club you're at into one and he's currently really well, you sort of doing, doing the second one. So I think increasingly now, perhaps ironically, compared to maybe if they were sort of more mid table or not achieving quite as well as they are, I think there's actually even less reason for now to want to move on, because in terms of the things he could want in a coaching career, I think if you're going to get European football of some form, then that must be massive. That's normally a carrot, I think that other clubs could float at you, that he might well have himself or can at least say, look, maybe, if not this season, said they come up a bit short. There's nothing to suggest that this team, once players come back from injury within another window, if they can keep and wear Movisa, that they could go again and perhaps go even better. You're looking at the way perhaps Forest Villa in recent seasons, I know they're different clubs, clubs historically to Brentford, but we're not seeing a big resurgence from some of the big six clubs. That window feels really open for teams that are, as you say, upwardly mobile to really achieve that.
- [35:58]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
If Thomas Frank continues on his current, you know, it doesn't even matter if Thomas Frank continues on his current trajectory, he'll probably get a statue outside Brentford Stadium. I don't think that's an outlandish thing to say because they've gone on such an incredible journey during his, I think nine years at the club in total and seven years as head coach. They've gone from middle of the championship to, you know, top half of the Premier League. It's incredible journey. So I'm not saying he sat there thinking, oh, if I stay at Brentford for a couple more years, my, my, my bronze statue, which probably won't even look like me, it's going to be outside the stadium.
- [36:30]
Ayo Akimolere
Who talks about Ronaldo?
- [36:31]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Exactly. But I'm sure he's aware that he could achieve something so, so special and already has done many times with Brentford and he could tarnish that slightly if he moved at the wrong time or he didn't move in the right circumstances, etc.
- [36:46]
Ayo Akimolere
Very quickly before we sort of wrap up the forgotten one, Igor Thiago you spoke about earlier. If Mbuema does move on, do you think this is a ready opportunity for him to take a stand in this team and actually prove why they bought him in the first place?
- [37:00]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
Don't know. With Thiago It's a little bit. It's a little bit difficult because he's just had no exposure to the Premier League this season enough to even be that call. It's so tricky to suddenly say, okay, well now you've got to replace and Buemo or Visa or whatever the situation is. Obviously picked up a nasty knee injury in pre season and then he's been struggling with a joint infection recently. But he has come back in the last couple of games. It's just going to take him a while to get up to speed in the Premier League, to get up to speed with what Brentford do. Because it's not. He's not just missing out on games, he's missing out on training sessions, etc as well. The one to keep an eye on is Kevin Schada. Because Sharda's such a strange player. He reminds me of one of my best mates, Charles. I'll give him a shout out. Who, when we played football together as a kid was just pure speed and nothing else.
- [37:44]
Ayo Akimolere
Okay.
- [37:45]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
He didn't quite have that level of finesse or technical ability to be a perfect striker. I'm sure he's going to cuss me for this. Threw shade on him now and no, still a good player. And when I watch Schada, he possesses some outstanding physical attributes. He's incredibly quick. I know when he joined Brentford from Freiburg, I think he'd recorded the quickest speed in the Bundesliga that season. He's got an incredible leap and I think in the last month or so he scored quite a few headed goals and people have realized he doesn't look like he's an aerial threat, but his leap is so impressive that he's an aerial threat. I just don't know if he'll ever pull everything together and be an amazing finisher and that's what he needs to go to the next level. I don't watch him enough, but I don't. He slightly reminds me of Karim Adeyemi at Dortmund, someone who's like relentlessly quick but from what I understand doesn't score an outrageous amount of goals. But again, Sharda's only, I think, 23 years old, so there's still a lot of time for him to grow. But even now when I watch him, a lot of the goals he scores are quite clunky. At the end of the day, he scored 11 goals in the Premier League this season, which is fantastic. He is a good player. I just think with him, I don't think he has quite the same overall quality as Mbuemo and Visa, and it looks like he'll sort of be expected to succeed in the so I'm a little bit unsure on how that will work out. If he was the main man and you're relying on him to get you 15, 18 goals a season, right?
- [39:05]
Ayo Akimolere
Gents? Appreciate your time, Jay and Liam. We'll be back tomorrow.
- [39:10]
Athletic FC Podcast Host
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [39:19]
Aura Advertiser
This podcast is brought to you by Aura. By the time you hear about a data breach, your information has already been exposed for months. On average, companies take 277 days to report a breach. That's nine months where hackers have access to your personal data. That's why we're thrilled to partner with Aura. Aura is an all in one digital safety solution that monitors the dark web for your phone number, email and Social Security number, sending real time alerts if your info is found. It also includes a vpn, password manager and data broker removal. To help keep you safe for a limited time, Aura is offering a 14 day free trial plus a dark web scan to check if your personal information has been leaked. All for free@aura.com safety that's aura.com safety to sign up and protect your loved ones. That's a u r a.com safety terms apply. Check the site for details.