Will the USMNT ever produce a global superstar?

Summary

The Athletic FC Podcast
Episode: Will the USMNT Ever Produce a Global Superstar?
Hosts: Adam Leventhal, Keris Jones, Art d’Rocher
Special Contributors: Jack Lang, Henry Bushnell, Joshua Cloak
Date: June 12, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode, airing on the eve of the USMNT’s World Cup opener, explores why the United States men’s national team has never produced a truly global football superstar. Anchored by coverage of Day 1 World Cup action and co-hosted by Adam Leventhal and Keris Jones—joined in the studio by Art d’Rocher—the show draws on passionate analysis, on-the-ground reporting from Mexico, and a detailed discussion with senior writer Henry Bushnell. The crew reflect on the culture, system, and psyche that shape U.S. player development, and compare the U.S. to fellow host nations Mexico and Canada, before closing with a look ahead to all three hosts’ tournament prospects.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. World Cup Opening Day Recap

• Mexico’s Win Over South Africa

  • Atmosphere at the Azteca: Jack Lang (05:12) reports from the stadium: “People throwing these cardboard sombreros raining down onto the pitch. And when Mexico took the lead… a shower of beer. I got absolutely soaked. My laptop is sticky… But all part of the fun, really.”
  • Raúl Jiménez’s Comeback: Hosts reflect emotionally on Jiménez scoring after his career-threatening head injury (06:43–09:28).
    • “To see the moment of realization Jimenez had after he scored… and the journey he’s been on, it was quite special.” —Art d’Rocher (07:35)
    • Tim Spears’ Athletic feature ‘First he survived, then Raul Jimenez thrived’ recommended.
  • Match Incident Discussion: Three red cards, notably Citole (South Africa) error and ejection; hosts debate the fairness of each (09:28–11:50).

• South Korea v Czechia Analysis

  • Art d’Rocher (13:06): “South Korea’s passing… really intricate. They showed you can have fluidity in play with a back three. Their football was so much superior compared to not just Czechia but Mexico as well.”
  • Player of note: Hwang In-beom, praised for creativity and influence.
  • Observations on empty seats, ticket prices, and potential attendance issues (15:17–16:59).
    • “What I found really interesting was… FIFA announced the attendance as about 700 under capacity. It looked like a lot more empty seats than that.” —Keris Jones (15:48)

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2. Why Has the US Never Produced a Global Superstar?

Interview with Henry Bushnell, Senior Writer (19:53–24:55)

• Pressure on the USMNT:
  • Bushnell: “Of course, there’s a lot of expectation… But the players don’t seem tense. The vibes are actually really good... They’ve played in big games, and many have played together since youth teams.” (19:53)
• Mauricio Pochettino’s Impact:
  • Changed team culture by challenging comfortable stars and introducing more competition; brought tactical flexibility (21:09).
  • “One [narrative] is that Pochettino changed the culture… generated some legitimate competition within the squad… tactical tweaks… But this was always going to happen. The stakes have changed: it’s the World Cup.” (21:09)
• Key Players:
  • Pulisic is centerpiece and face of the team, backed by Weston McKennie and Folarin Balogun (22:20).
    • “Pulisic is really the person who is going to drive this team.” (22:20)
• Why No US Global Superstar Yet?
  • Core issue: late-arriving soccer culture in the U.S.—lack of ingrained footballing tradition and unstructured play from a very young age (23:22).
    • “Soccer arrived here very late… kids don’t grow up with a ball at their feet… and that has more of an impact than we realize.” (23:22)
  • Other systemic issues: ‘pay to play’, MLS academies still lag, less entrenched footballing identity.
  • Read Henry’s feature: “A Broken System, Nascent Culture: Why the US Has Never Had a World Class Men’s Soccer Star” (24:55).

Studio Discussion

• Is Pulisic a Global Superstar?

  • General consensus: Not at the level of a Yamal or Mbappé.
    • “I think his profile is a combination of his skill and the fact that he’s American, as opposed to his talent alone.” —Keris Jones (25:45)
  • Art: “To have the tag ‘the LeBron James of soccer’… you need to be known for your actual name.” (26:18)

• Culture, Personality & Visibility

  • US domestic league’s lack of core stars: most high-profile USMNT players made their names abroad, so are “out of sight, out of mind” at home (27:05).
  • Pulisic’s personality—softly spoken, not a big media presence—may limit global stardom, but extroversion isn’t the only path (28:04–29:54).
    • Art draws Messi/Ronaldo personality comparison.

• USMNT Tournament Prospects

  • Group: Paraguay, Australia, Turkey.
  • Predicted ceiling: Round of 16 (31:11).
  • Interest in how Folarin Balogun fares as a potential breakout star.

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3. Canada’s Moment: Potential for a Watershed in Canadian Soccer

• Canadian Perspective with Joshua Cloak (37:17):
  • “This game… is set to be the biggest game in Canadian soccer history… More children play soccer than any other team sport in Canada, including ice hockey… A win… could certainly change the conversation around Canadian soccer and likely Canadian sports for years to come.”
• Canada’s Chances
  • Softer group: Qatar, Bosnia, Switzerland.
  • Host analysis: No Alphonso Davies for the opener, Jonathan David spotlighted as both scorer (39 goals in 31 matches) and creator (44:19).
  • Jesse Marsh’s appointment as national coach has improved morale; his emotional style seen as an asset (41:30).
    • “To have a manager like that… can get everyone involved, in the same kind of emotional state… can be vital.” —Art d’Rocher (41:50)
  • Keris: Mexico likely to go furthest among co-hosts; USMNT potential dependent on opening games (40:40).

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4. Other Noteworthy Moments & Quotes

• Match Atmosphere and Cultural Notes
  • Jack Lang’s “my laptop is sticky” after being drenched by celebratory beer in the Azteca (05:59).
• Quiz Segment:
  • Art wins quickfire World Cup trivia on Enner Valencia (35:44–35:49).
  • Art on football quizzes: “I’ve been doing the Athletic soccer connections. Thankfully I’m 100% on both days.” (36:45)
• Fan and Shirt Banter:
  • Art sports a Bosnia jersey, teasing Canada fans ahead of the Canada v Bosnia opener (03:22–04:25).
  • Lighthearted shirt collection rivalry in the studio.
• Ticket Pricing and Empty Seats
  • Keris: “I don’t understand who is buying tickets to a World Cup game that cost hundreds of dollars and then not turning up.” (16:59)
• Art’s Contributions:
  • Art wrote player biographies for Arsenal stars in The Athletic’s “Stars of Soccer”—Saka, Ødegaard, and Zubimendi (42:41).

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Segment Timestamps

• [02:06] – Mexico-South Africa opener analysis
• [05:12] – Jack Lang from the Azteca
• [06:43] – Jiménez’s injury/return discussed
• [09:28] – Red card controversies
• [13:06] – South Korea v Czechia review
• [15:17] – Empty seats & ticket pricing debate
• [19:53] – USMNT pressure and Pochettino’s impact (Henry Bushnell interview)
• [22:20] – Who will drive USMNT success?
• [23:22] – Why the US lacks a superstar
• [25:36] – Pulisic and the global star debate
• [31:11] – USMNT’s potential tournament ending
• [37:17] – Joshua Cloak on Canada’s “biggest game ever”
• [41:30] – Jesse Marsh’s impact on Canada
• [43:43] – Jonathan David’s dual role for Canada

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Tone and Style

• Friendly, knowledgeable, and occasionally cheeky; plenty of in-studio banter, especially around jersey choices and quiz competitiveness.
• Analytical and direct during expert interviews; empathetic when recalling players’ personal journeys (e.g., Jiménez).
• Willing to critique (ticket pricing, US system) but also hopeful for North American football’s future.

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Conclusion

A lively, insightful World Cup episode that zeroes in on why the USMNT hasn’t produced a global megastar, linking the issue to deeper questions of culture, development, and visibility. Standout moments include heartfelt reflection on Raúl Jiménez, a data-driven skewering of World Cup ticket policies, banter-laden studio segments, and Henry Bushnell’s clear-eyed breakdown of the US’s football identity crisis. The episode closes with anticipation for Canada’s biggest ever footballing moment and cautious optimism for the prospects of all three host nations.

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For further reading:

• First he survived, then Raúl Jiménez thrived by Tim Spears
• A Broken System, Nascent Culture: Why the US Has Never Had a World-Class Men’s Soccer Star by Henry Bushnell
• Stars of Soccer (player encyclopedia)

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Transcript

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[Art d'Rocher]

The athletic FC Jimenez wants it in the middle. He's there.

[Adam Leventhal]

It's 2 0.

[Art d'Rocher]

He's had a super game.

[Adam Leventhal]

Hi there and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Adam Levanthal. So the Mexican party has started with red cards galore in that opening game and later, both the USA and Canada get their tournaments off and underway as well. So today we're going to be reacting to the day one drama and ask why the USA have never produced a truly global superstar. And joining me in the studio, Keris Jones is back. How are you?

[Keris Jones]

I'm good, thank you.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

How are you?

[Adam Leventhal]

You've got fans.

[Keris Jones]

You know, this is hilarious. It's so funny.

[Adam Leventhal]

What would we call Ceris Jones fans? Do we call them Cerys?

[Keris Jones]

Oh, I Don't think we need to do that at all.

[Adam Leventhal]

Jonesy's. I don't know.

[Art d'Rocher]

Jonesy's is good.

[Adam Leventhal]

Jonesy's.

[Art d'Rocher]

Yeah, I don't think it is.

[Keris Jones]

What really made me laugh was someone like, commenting like, keris Jones returns under the podcast. But then like 20 minutes later, someone just reacted with a thumbs down. But that was after they'd had time to listen to the episode.

[Adam Leventhal]

So I was like, oh, don't take it personally. Art d' Rocher is here.

[Art d'Rocher]

I am.

[Adam Leventhal]

What are you wearing, Art? For the people just listening, what are you wearing?

[Art d'Rocher]

For those who can't see, I'm wearing a Bosnia shirt. I wanted to go kind of on theme. Bosnia are playing Canada tonight. That's the problem. I don't have any Canada shirts. So this shirt has Ellen Dzeko on the back. And I was kind of obsessed with him for a little while before he even joined Manchester City. So when he won the Bundesliga with Wolfsburg and I really wanted him to come to Arsenal, he obviously didn't, but that didn't kind of affect my love for him as a player. So, yeah, I've got quite a big, you know, shirt collection. So this was one that I thought could work today.

[Keris Jones]

I feel like I really need to step up after Jay yesterday and then Art today, and I'm literally just wearing like a plain white T shirt.

[Adam Leventhal]

Maybe, I don't know, maybe we just leave it to Jay.

[Keris Jones]

Yeah, maybe leave it to Art.

[Adam Leventhal]

They can just sort of have this little shirt battle. But yeah, Jay was saying that his reserves of shirts aren't as strong perhaps as yours.

[Keris Jones]

Yeah, he's going to run out of depth as the tournament goes on.

[Art d'Rocher]

My squad depth in terms of shirts

[Adam Leventhal]

is quite deep, but nothing from Canada. So it's a call to action but also a kick in the teeth for Canada that you're wearing a Bosnia shirt.

[Art d'Rocher]

I mean, well, last time I was on, I did wear like a Springbok kind of jumper. And a few people in the comments realized. But I think after loss last night, it probably wasn't the move to go with South Africa related merch.

[Adam Leventhal]

No, exactly, exactly. But do get in the comments if you want to give Art a kicking. And you're from Canada, so. Yes, you mentioned South Africa. Yesterday we had Jack Lang on the show when he was reflecting on Gianni Infantino's opening press conference before the tournament started. But then he is back today because he was watching Mexico beat South Africa 20 and at the Azteca in the tournament opener. Let's hear from Him.

[Jack Lang]

It's been a great day before the game started. We'll come on to that in a sec. Fantastic atmosphere around the stadium. Music, mariachi bands, lucha libre masks. People in a fantastic mood. Absolutely chock a block the streets. You could barely move at some points inside the stadium, people throwing these cardboard sombreros raining down onto the pitch. And when Mexico took the lead very early on through Julian Quinones, a shower of beer. I got absolutely soaked. My laptop is sticky. If my camera doesn't look its best here, it's because there's probably beer on that as well. But all part of the fun, really. And helped of course, by the fact that Mexico ran out two nil winners. I'm sure the people here are going to be partying well into the night. Not sure I have the energy to join then, but we'll see how we go.

[Adam Leventhal]

See you soon. Yeah, you can tell that. That Jack enjoyed that. My laptop is sticky is a quote that I'm going to take from that clip. But it was obviously a great atmosphere. The sombreros, you know, flying down from the stands. It was. It felt. That felt like a moment, didn't it? And another great moment was obviously Raul Jimenez scoring for Mexico. An emotional moment. And on the athletic. You need to check this one out. Everything on the app, by the way, is free. Throughout the World Cup. First he survived, then Raul Jimenez thrived. It's by Tim Spears and it references the fact that he had that horrendous head injury and now he's had this great moment on the world stage. And you were actually at the game when that injury was sustained, Art.

[Art d'Rocher]

Yeah, so that was back in December 2020. And the real thing that kind of sticks out is the noise, because obviously that was behind closed doors at a time, one of many lockdowns. And yeah, David Luiz was the player who collided with him very early in the game. And I feel like it stopped for about 10 minutes as all the physios were, you know, attending to Raul Jimenez. And I think at that time it was such a big. Not just a Wolves story, but a football story. So everyone kind of in the stadium was, of course, you know, trying to get as much coverage as they could of it at the time. And I believe Tim was probably there as well because he was covering wars at the time. And, yeah, watching the game yesterday actually kind of made me emotional a little bit because you kind of remember where you were at that moment. And to be one of the few people who were inside the stadium, it kind of just made you realize, I guess, how lucky you are to do this job at times, because even though you don't want to say you were there for, like a terrible moment like that, to see the moment of realization Jimenez had after he scored for what he did and the journey he's been on since that day almost six years ago, it was quite special.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah. And it's been quite a journey, hasn't it?

[Keris Jones]

Yeah, it was amazing. Like seeing the emotion actually kind of come over his face as he wheels away from the goal. But his journey since the injury, I think what's unusual about is it's not one. I think he's spoken about this. You don't judge when you're ready to come back based on kind of your own pain threshold, as you might with, I don't know, an ankle sprain or something, you've obviously got to be incredibly careful with, listening to the doctors, the surgeons about when it is medically, based on scans, MRIs, everything safe for you to come back. So he was out for what, nine months? Came back and really struggled for a while. Obviously an injury like that will affect kind of heading. Evidently it will, I imagine, affect his confidence. He wasn't a starter for Mexico at the last World cup after he returned. In fact, he's not generally been a starter for Mexico at World Cups. He had a pretty barren run at Wolves. And now the phrase that Tim used in the article was like he had unfinished business. And I think that's both with Wolves and with Mexico. He's obviously kind of made good on that or started to become good on that for Mexico with that goal last night. And then we now know that he's coming back to all the handsome wanderers as well, which is an incredible story. And such a boost for them trying to cut if they're going to come straight back out of the championship. Him as kind of a figurehead for that. He's the perfect person to do that for them.

[Adam Leventhal]

At 35 years and 37 days, Mexico's Raul Jimenez is the oldest player to score on his first FIFA World cup start since 2006. So it does show, you know, speaking to the point of the fact that he wasn't always starting and it was just a great moment. Let's look at some of the other elements of that story, and obviously Jack didn't mention it after the game because there'd been so much going on, including three red cards. Citole is now a name that everyone knows that might not have known him before because he was at the centre of a lot of the sort of difficulty for. For South Africa and mistake for the first goal, then sent off as well. Then Zwame was sent off for South Africa, then Montes was sent off for Mexico. Just a sort of a little straw poll from both of you. Did you see any problem with either of. With any of the red cards?

[Keris Jones]

Third one. If that's a clear. If the referee thinks that's a clear goal scoring opportunity, then like, he's a better player than me. So I was like, there's still a lot of work to do. Do you think it's a foul? I don't think it's clear.

[Art d'Rocher]

Goal scoring opportunity with the third one. I agree with Karris's point because when I was looking at it, he is very wide. My thing was it just looks like he's just fully gone to take him out. And I could understand why he went for a red card for that reason.

[Keris Jones]

Yeah, it depends on. I don't actually know what it was given for. Whether it was for denial of a goal scoring opportunity or if it was for the foul itself. If it's for the foul itself, yeah, I can understand it. The first red card, it's not a hard foul, but it is a clear goal scoring opportunity. It's almost like the other side of that coin, the slap I didn't pick up in real time at all.

[Adam Leventhal]

Well, I don't think the referee did, even though, as we later saw, he had a great view of it via ref cam. And it took a while and then it was analysed. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not actually that bothered about any of those three red cards personally. So we'll get some expert insight, I'm sure, from Graham Scott afterwards. Our resident referee here at the Athletic throughout the tournament as well. Just in general terms, is it tough to assess whether Mexico are any good after that first one? Because South Africa were just pretty bad, weren't they?

[Art d'Rocher]

That's part of it. I also believe when I was watching the game, I know sometimes it is harder to play against 10, nine men when they all kind of, you know, just retreat back. But part of me was hoping that they'd really put the foot down and go for it. And you just didn't really see that from Mexico. I know their next game's South Korea, which is. Obviously, we'll talk about them in a little bit, but I was really impressed with South Korea. So I think that's going to be the big game of this group, really. To determine who's first and who's second?

[Adam Leventhal]

Let's talk about that game now, Art, because here in the UK that game kicked off at 3am and that's one of the features of this World cup that I think Duncan Alexander was speaking overnight and he was saying that 40% of games are gonna kick off beyond midnight if you're watching in the UK. So it kicked off at 3am I didn't stay up. Okay, did you watch the game? You watched the game, did you?

[Art d'Rocher]

Yeah, so I set an alarm for 3am it took me a little while to get up, so. So I caught like the back end of the first half and then thankfully all of the second half, which was

[Keris Jones]

so sort of when it picked up, basically you missed kind of the dull bit of the game and then you got up.

[Art d'Rocher]

So I thankfully saw, I think the best football of the day because South Korea with their passing, really intricate. I feel like sometimes you can look at teams who, you know, set up with a back three and you can automatically assume that they're just going to set up defensively. But I think they showed that you can have, you know, still have fluidity in your play if you're playing with a back three. With Lee, Canning and Hwang who scored their equalizer and assisted the winner, I thought overall their football was so much superior compared to not just Czechia but Mexico as well in their game. It just felt like they had an intent in their play that wasn't there in the other games.

[Adam Leventhal]

And you know a bit more about the guy who scored the equalizer and as you said, set up the winner, Hwang in Beom. It's just good knowledge. It's hipster knowledge. Why do you know so much about him?

[Art d'Rocher]

It's just a little bit. So luckily last summer on holiday I went to a Feyenoord game with a few friends and he plays for Feyenoord. He actually played really well on that day as well. It was a pre season friendly against Wolfsburg and he was very forward thinking with his passing.

[Keris Jones]

This is the sort of thing that we all like to do on our holidays, by the way.

[Art d'Rocher]

But yeah, he was very forward thinking with his passing that day. He was setting up. I believe it was Ueda who plays for Japan and will obviously be featuring in the tournament later this week. And yeah, went back to Feyenoord during the season as well for a piece on Robin Van Persie who unfortunately isn't in the job anymore. But yeah, I think looking at those two games I watched him in the Netherlands, you could see that he was a player that had a real quality on the ball, and I'm glad that he's been able to show that on the world stage because it wasn't just those two moments where he was involved in goals last night, but I think he showed a real kind of maturity and discipline in when to push forward, when to drop in. And that midfield and the kind of attack and force of South Korea worked really well together. So it wasn't just the son Heun Min show.

[Adam Leventhal]

Two other things that we learned from that game, South Korea can't defend, set pieces. And also there were some empty seats in the stadium. Quite a few empty seats, it looked at, looked like in one of the smaller venues in Guadalajara. So, you know, it does speak to the fact that ticket price is too much for some people. And maybe some of these games there are going to be, you know, there's 40 more games at this World Cup. Some of them just simply aren't going to be as appealing, especially with the ticket prices so high.

[Keris Jones]

Yeah, definitely. I think, you know, Mexico having the opener at the Azteca, that was a game that was always going to sell out. And I think it was a really good choice to have the opener there and have that incredible atmosphere. But this was way more of a test, you know, Czech Republic versus South Korea in Mexico is quite. There's no thread that pulls all of that together that is going to entice people. What I found really interesting was that FIFA announced the attendance as kind of about 700 under the capacity. And from our colleague Jacob Whitehead, who was there, kind of wrote, and I think this is the fair assumption, it looked like a lot more empty seats than that. So I think that risks becoming a common thread of are we going to hear attendance figures or are we going to hear tickets sold figures? But even then, what really interested me there was usually, you know, covering the Women's Super League over here, sometimes we'll hear a ticket sold, a figure which is quite clearly for tickets sold rather than attendance. But that tends to be because the ticket prices are quite low, so you will get no shows. Whereas I don't understand who is buying tickets to a World cup game that costs hundreds of dollars and then not turning up. I'm wondering who is leaving those seats empty.

[Adam Leventhal]

I think that that might be more connected to the amount of tickets that have been sold to hospitality sponsors and things like that, rather than it being individuals not turning up. But, I mean, this is something that we'll keep an eye on throughout the tournament. We had that at the Qatar World Cup. There was empty seats. We always keep an eye out for it, but it just feels more and more this time around because of the ticket prices and FIFA's sort of hardline stance on it. It may well continue to be a theme, but there will be games like that opening game, the Mexico game, that are going to be really well attended as well.

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[Adam Leventhal]

So two games down, we're going to get stuck into the games that are coming up now because that's the vibe during the World cup, isn't it?

[Henry Bushnell]

You.

[Adam Leventhal]

You sort of go yeah, right. Did you watch the game last night? Did you watch the game in the middle of the night? But then you go right, well what's the next one? When can we see the next one? We're going to be talking about Canada a little bit later on, but let's focus on the US Men's national team. And to do that is our senior writer, Henry Bushnell, who is out in Los Angeles. So Henry is with us. So how much pressure then is there on this US Side heading into the tournament? Henry?

[Henry Bushnell]

Look, I think there are two parts to this answer. One, of course, there's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of expectation on this team. Absolutely. But two, I think the players don't seem tense. The vids are actually really good. And I think there's a couple reasons for that. One is, you know, these guys have played in on Champions League nights, in big league matches for the clubs. Chris Richards was asked yesterday about whether he was felt like pressure was building and he kind of shrugged and said no, like we've played in big games before. And then the second part of it, which my colleague Paul Tonorio is actually writing about, is that a lot of these guys have played together, going way back to youth national teams or at least for the past several years. And when the moments get big, I think you can draw on that closeness. It's kind of the perfect antidote to pressure.

[Adam Leventhal]

It's interesting, isn't it? I mean, trying to take a read off Chris Richards, he's. He is pretty chilled anyway, isn't he? So that is, that is an interesting one. And I remember last year being at the Nations League and seeing the United States really struggle. They were playing against Mexico, Canada, Panama as well. And there seemed to be a sense that Maurizio Pochettino at that point was under a lot of, of pressure, maybe even to make it to the World cup as a coach. So what, and how has he managed to change things around?

[Henry Bushnell]

Yeah, I think there are a few things that have changed and a few potential narratives here. One is that Pochettino changed the culture. He challenged the big time players who, who'd gotten a bit too comfortable. He generated some legitimate competition within the squad for places that challenged guys. And as a result, we're seeing much better performances from the top players with the national team. There are also some tactical tweaks. They kind of found this flexible system that morphs from a back three into a back four depending on whether they do or don't have the ball. It can be seen as a 4, 2, 3, 1. It can also be seen as a 3, 4, 2, 1, 3, 5 2. The third explanation is just that this was always going to happen. You know, for years this team was playing inconsequential, repetitive games.

[Adam Leventhal]

Right.

[Henry Bushnell]

They were playing the same few CONCACAF teams they were playing a bunch of friendlies. They didn't have to qualify for the World Cup. There was no, there was nothing pushing them to perform for the national team. So what's changed is the stakes. Like it's the World Cup. Like of course, of course things were going to be building for this. So I think, I think that's certainly part of it too.

[Art d'Rocher]

Hi, Henry, Just on the US who do you expect to be their main contributors to any success they can have in this tournament?

[Henry Bushnell]

I mean, Christian Pulisic is the big name. He's the, the catalyst. He's been both the face of this team and its most influential player for years now, really since he was a teenager. And he had a extremely rough second half of the season at AC Milan, but he scored in a pre tournament friendly. He looked, he didn't score against Germany, but he looked really good. And he said all along that he didn't feel like he wasn't sharp or that he wasn't playing well. He just had a really unlucky, barren run at Milan. So he looked good against Germany. And I think he is going to be the one that everybody is, is looking to at this tournament to kind of jumpstart the US and of course there are other players. There's Weston, McKinney, there's Fuller and Balogun, who ended the season on a great scoring run at Monaco in France. But Pulisic is really the person who is going to drive this team.

[Keris Jones]

And Henry, you've written on the Athletic a really great piece about why the US haven't yet produced a global superstar. It's a really fascinating topic. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

[Henry Bushnell]

Yeah, look, it's a question that a lot of people have asked over the years. And as some people told me and as I was reporting the story, you could ask a hundred people this question and you get a hundred different answers about why the US hasn't produced a great player. But the one that I tend to go towards and that a lot of people tend to go towards is just soccer culture. Like soccer arrived here very late. It didn't become ingrained in society in the same way that it did in a lot of countries in Europe, South America, Africa and beyond. And the way that trickles down and translate into talent development is that kids don't grow up with a ball at their feet. They don't grow obsessed with the game at a young ages. And when you talk to experts in talent development, that's actually a massive part of like soccer is such a complicated sport, or football, as a lot of people would call it, is such a complicated sport that you need to master the ball skills at a very young age just by exploring it and experimenting. And for a lot of us kids, the first, you know, the real introduction to the game is just going to play on a youth team at five or six years old as opposed to having a ball at their feet at three or four years old and going out in the street and playing with friends. And I think that has more of an impact than we realize. And there are a lot of other issues too, for sure. There's the system, there's the pay to play model there. There's things that trickle up to the system. Some would say that MLS academies still aren't quite on on par with some other countries around the world, but it really all comes back down to soccer culture.

[Adam Leventhal]

Henry, it's fascinating. Thank you very much for your insight on this. You'll obviously be able to check in with Henry throughout the tournament and you can find out more about the topic that he was just discussing there. That piece entitled A Broken System, Nascent Culture, why the US Has Never had a World Class Men's Soccer Star. Read it on the Athletic all of the coverage on the app is free for you to read. There's the World cup today blogs as well, which basically just sort of links you in to everything that's going on throughout the day. Let's get stuck into that then. We don't reckon Christian Pulisic is a, is a global, is a global star. No, no. Doesn't qualify.

[Keris Jones]

I think only in the sense that if we're going to pick, if we're going to pick someone from the US Men's national team as a global star, it's him.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah.

[Keris Jones]

But I think if you compare him to what you would consider real like global soccer superstars, you know, Lamine Yamal, Kylian Mbapp. He's not at that level as few are. But I don't think, I think his profile is as a result of a combination of his skill, but also his skill and the fact that he's American as opposed to like his talent alone, if that makes sense. She isn't to undermine him at all. But I think that what drives a lot of the the narrative is that he is the most talented American player.

[Art d'Rocher]

Yeah, I don't think you can have the tag the LeBron James of soccer. You need to have your actual name be what people recognize. And I mean even if we're looking at Bosnia, for instance, I'm not going to say, like, Edin Dzeko is a global superstar, but if you're looking at people within that country, I mean, today he's, I think, done a piece in the Players Tribune, which is basically dedicated to kids in Bosnia. And I think when you have people like that who can really be a figurehead for a country, it really transcends what you can do, not just on the pitch, but off it. And I think that's when you're looking at almost global stardom or even just having a natural face at the front of everything. I think being your own person really helps.

[Keris Jones]

I think a lot of this, like, when I think about kind of the US and soccer culture, men's soccer culture, we should say, kind of a lot of it comes back to the fact it feels quite sporadic and that their domestic league doesn't have the same core of national team players. I think it's about, is it eight or nine MLS players that are in the squad for this World Cup? A lot of the most high profile names, you know, sort of Chris Richards, Tyler Adams, Pulisic, like, have made their name kind of abroad and in Europe. It's almost a little bit out of sight, out of mind. That's the thing that. And I think that especially in Europe, we kind of draw credibility from a player's contributions in one of the big five European leagues, in the Champions League particularly. But how much does that actually translate over to the US and it being someone that the audience over there relate to and that they see as kind of a figurehead for their sport if they're only seeing them for a few weeks or a couple of months every year.

[Adam Leventhal]

He seems like a good guy, but it's just his personality as well doesn't necessarily lend itself to being known more broadly because he's actually quite softly spoken and, you know, he does have his opinions. He's had the controversies, doing like the Trump dance and things like that, all that sort of stuff. But I guess also because he's just not a big Bullian personality that plays into it as well, do you think?

[Art d'Rocher]

Possibly. I feel like when it comes to stardom, it's really interesting when you look at personalities, because you can see, I mean, if we're talking about extroverts versus introverts and you look at the Ronaldo and Messi debate.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, that's a great point.

[Art d'Rocher]

You can see Messi seems more introverted. Maybe he's not when you're playing against him, but he comes across that way. But he still has the levels of football.

[Keris Jones]

Do the talking.

[Adam Leventhal]

Right.

[Art d'Rocher]

So I do think there.

[Adam Leventhal]

It's a tough benchmark to.

[Art d'Rocher]

I know, But I do feel like there should be room for people who are maybe more introverted to shine. Like I myself, I know I'm more of an introverted person, but I feel like there's still room to be able to, you know, show who you are to people. And I think even if we look at American sports this week and you look at the Knicks in the NBA, the player who scored their kind of game winning shot in game four, I believe, OG I'm not going to try and pronounce the surname because I'll just get myself in trouble, I think. But he's very softly spoken and I think he comes across as very endearing to most people. So I do think, even though maybe a more extroverted, boisterous person naturally lends themselves to being, you know, that superstar, I do think there should be room for people who may be a bit more quiet to, as Kara said, let their football do the talking.

[Keris Jones]

But that almost comes back to what I was saying about sort of being out of sight, out of mind. Like if fans aren't watching you week in, week out, the stuff that's gonna cut through is, you know, those bigger moments and if he's not kind of creating those necessarily on, you know, if he's not cutting through on your social media feed or on the news for what he's said, what he's done, a particularly kind of like bulshy post match interview, there's not the same cut through and that's not a reflection on him. I kind of, you know, I would be very happy for a lot more footballers to do their talking on the pitch, but it does mean that it does have implications for your profile, I think.

[Adam Leventhal]

And just a word on their chances in this World Cup. Obviously they open up against Paraguay. They've also got Australia and Turkey or Turkey. How far can they go? I mean, obviously you'd probably pin your colours to the Paraguay, Australia and Turkey mask, you know, if you could with a shirt.

[Art d'Rocher]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Leventhal]

But yeah, how far can they go and how much do you think it's vital for the tournament that they do go far and whether they'll deal with the pressure, I guess. I mean, Anthony Robinson, he scored an absolute banger against Germany.

[Art d'Rocher]

Hopefully waste all his good luck.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, that's true.

[Art d'Rocher]

Yeah. It's a really difficult one because I'd say the furthest I could see them going is the round of 16. And I don't know if that is, if that would be viewed as a success for them. I think looking at that group as well. I'm not just saying it because of, you know, the, the colors I've nailed to the mask, but I do also feel like Turkey and Australia will give them a go. So, yeah, I think at a push round of 16 for me. But I would be really interested to see how Balagun does because he had a really, really strong end to the season and obviously when he was England under 21 international, he was really sought after by three nations, England, Nigeria and the US so I think for him it'll be a really important couple of weeks to maybe show those people who he decided not to show his allegiance with what he can do because he's been doing it in France now for a couple of years.

[Keris Jones]

Foreign

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

this episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by Hotels.com when you're booking a hotel, here's a simple question. Why wouldn't you use hotels.com it really is all in the Name. As a member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world and earn rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So whether you're planning a grand adventure to follow your national team around North America this summer, or whisking your special someone away for an escape because you've been glued to the football for weeks, make sure to [e-mail] and start earning rewards. Because when it comes to hotels, it's simple. Hotels.com it's all in the name. This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by the FIFA World cup meal at McDonald's. Right now at McDonald's, you can get one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World cup meal. These cups feature some of the biggest legends in football like David Beckham, Ronaldinho and Thierry Henry. And current stars from the three hosts, Christian Pulisic, Santiago Jimenez and Alphonso Davis, as well as everyone's favourite purple player, Grimace. And I don't know about you, but I'm hyped to get Lamina mar with my 10 McNuggets. The FIFA World cup meal is available all tournament long, so see if you can collect all nine of the cups. That's the FIFA World cup meal only at McDonald's, our participating McDonald's, for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved. 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026 is a copyright and a trademark.

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[Adam Leventhal]

It's time for our quiz. You ready?

[Art d'Rocher]

Just a question.

[Adam Leventhal]

Go on then.

[Art d'Rocher]

I saw yesterday's one, right. And I saw it was. You went like J first and then Kerris. Is today going to be a Just shout your answer or.

[Adam Leventhal]

Well, let's do it that way because yesterday I completely messed it up. So let's do it the proper way. So this is our do you know daily quiz that we're playing throughout the tournament. Day two. Do you know which player scored twice? That's the link to day two. Scored twice in the opening game of the 2022 World Cup. Fingers on buzzers.

[Keris Jones]

Go.

[Art d'Rocher]

Is it Enna Valencia?

[Adam Leventhal]

Very good. He did.

[Art d'Rocher]

Oh, my deep.

[Adam Leventhal]

He scored two goals in the opening game of the 2022 World Cup. I was there. Ecuador up against Qatar. Qatar were absolutely rubbish. But, yeah, he performed well and they won 2 nil. Enna Valencia. I was going to give other options. I was going to give clues.

[Keris Jones]

I'm going to be terrible at this. This is going to become like a real running theme throughout the show. But I think that's so not my strong form.

[Adam Leventhal]

Well, that was a better format, wasn't it? We need to. We need to. Yeah.

[Keris Jones]

Because I don't have the opportunity to give a wrong answer. So it's a great format.

[Adam Leventhal]

You can just sort of go, oh,

[Keris Jones]

yeah, I would have got that in a minute.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah.

[Art d'Rocher]

When I was watching yesterday, I. I genuinely shouted Spain. As soon before you'd even finished the question.

[Adam Leventhal]

I like it. I like it. You're into the quiz.

[Art d'Rocher]

Yeah, you can come back. I've actually, I've actually, I've been doing the athletic soccer connections.

[Adam Leventhal]

Ah, yes.

[Art d'Rocher]

So thankfully I'm 100% on both days. We'll see if that continues throughout the tournament.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah, nice. So we've spoken about Mexico opening up the tournament. We've looked forward to the USA taking on Paraguay. Art's pick is Paraguay, obviously. But what about Canada? Art hates Canada. A guy who really loves Canada is our very own Joshua Cloak, who can tell us exactly what it means to them to be co hosting this tournament.

[Joshua Cloak]

This is not an overstatement. This game, Canada's World cup opener, is set to be the biggest game in Canadian soccer history. The word that I keep coming back to is the one I used earlier, anticipation. Since this World cup was awarded to Canada and the United States and Mexico, people have been asking, is this going to be the moment that changes Canadian sports? And I say that because, as I'm sure a lot of you know, Canada is very much a hockey country. But more children play soccer than any other team sport in Canada, including ice hockey. And these children, generations of Canadians, have been waiting for the real breakout moment in men's international soccer. A moment that they can attach themselves to and a moment that can truly catapult the sport into the domestic mainstream. A win and getting out of the group stage for Canada starts against Bosnia. And that kind of win could certainly change the conversation around Canadian soccer and likely Canadian sports for years to come. That's why tomorrow means so much to Canadian soccer.

[Adam Leventhal]

That's why it means so much.

[Keris Jones]

And yet here you are.

[Adam Leventhal]

Here you are.

[Art d'Rocher]

I mean, it's Bosnia's second World cup, guys. Yeah, it means a lot to them.

[Adam Leventhal]

It does. Of course it does. Of course it does. But let's focus in on, on, on Canada. And big thanks to, to Joshua. He's. He's a lovely guy. Been lucky enough to spend some time with him, you know, covering Canada. And it means so much to him, to the country as well. And they have sort of been overlooked a little bit in terms of the focus. Obviously, the juggernaut that is the USA has taken all of the news, you know, focus away from Mexico and Canada. But are we feeling that maybe Canada might be the team that could go the furthest, or is that putting it too much?

[Keris Jones]

I would say that's probably optimistic. I think they've got a very. Of the three host nations, I think they've got the kindest group. I mean, I'm looking at Qatar and at Bosnia Apologies. And thinking like that should be six points, really. Switzerland, I think a tougher prospect. But like we spoke yesterday about how comparatively easy it is to go through the group stages, just given like the amount of teams that are going through, the fact we have eight third place teams going through, you don't need to pick up that many points. But I think what is key for them is kind of building momentum. So they need to not only win, but put in some really decent performances as well, you know, in front of a home crowd. I think especially because Canada, as sort of a nation has probably, I would say, drawn the short straw in terms of the games that they're hosting. Like, it is a real opportunity for the national team there to draw in fans, as opposed to drawing in fans who are kind of going at it as neutrals, I suppose. But I don't think that they will. I don't think that they will make it as far as Mexico. I actually think that Mexico will do a better job of building that momentum and will go on a longer run. The US I'm just finding so hard to predict because I think so much of it will depend on how those first couple of games go. Whether they can build any sort of feel good factor or if they lose or have a disappointing performance in their opener. I think it just drains for me.

[Art d'Rocher]

I don't think it's going to be an easy six points, especially against Bosnia, unfortunately. Not just because.

[Adam Leventhal]

Give it a rest.

[Art d'Rocher]

Not just because of Edin Dzeko, but when you look at Canada, they're also expecting to miss Alphonso Davis in that open. And he's obviously a massive player for them, not just because of when you look at what he can do on the ball with his dribbling, but his first goal, their first goal in the World cup at 2022, it was from what he did off the ball, coming into the box, late run, header into the far corner. So, yeah, I think those ingredients might make it a little bit tricky for them. And I do agree with Kerris that in my opinion, Mexico would be kind of the favourites to go the furthest out of the host nations in terms

[Adam Leventhal]

of the coach that's leading them as well, Jesse Marsh. He's really been taken to the hearts of the Canadiens and he likes to wear his heart on his sleeve, as we've seen. So I just wonder if he might be the ingredient that can maybe turn some of those games, that they might be the underdogs, into something that might be just a little bit more magical

[Art d'Rocher]

for Canada if You remember back to a lot of Marsh's time at Leeds, he was very animated on the touchline and I think if he's able to bring that in this World cup, it can only help Canada because to have a manager like that that can get everyone involved, being in the same kind of emotional state as well in these games can be vital.

[Adam Leventhal]

Yeah. So as you mentioned, you know, no Alphonso Davis, which is a blow, but they do have players like Juventus, Jonathan David and he is one of the guys that's profiled in the Athletics Stars of Soccer, which is both Keris and I's favorite article in the world at the moment. It's lovely to look at and it's very easy to use. You click on the pictures and then you can just go and sort of have a bathe in all the information about all the players. Did you contribute to that?

[Art d'Rocher]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Leventhal]

Come on then, who did you do?

[Art d'Rocher]

I did the Arsenal boys. So Bukayo, Saka, Martin Odegaard and Martin Zubemndi. I also, it was unfortunate. I wrote something about Belgian player Nathan De Cat, but he didn't get selected. He's only 17. But he made his debut against the US actually in March. I watched him play last year in the Under 17s Euros against England. So it was him going up against Max Dalman and they both kind of just went at it and it was a really good kind of clash of the titans at that level. But yeah, the main three that did get in were Saka, Odegaard and Zubamendi.

[Adam Leventhal]

Let's focus on the guy that we've been talking about, Jonathan David, who will be there and is in the stars of soccer. I mean he has the ability to be the main, the main guy and to obviously carry them forward in this game without, you know, Alphonso Davis and things like that. But he's got the presence, he's got the aura and he will more than likely step up.

[Keris Jones]

Yeah, I think as the centre forward, David is just going to be carrying kind of more of more of that burden. The difficulty, I guess is the creativity behind him. The players are going to have to step up as well. But there's a really good number in here that in his 39 goals for Canada, come across 31 matches. They've only lost four of those 31 matches. So, you know, he scores game changing goals. His fate seems to be quite closely linked to how the team as a whole get on in a match. My concern is just actually progressing the ball up the pitch to him, I suppose without Davies like the other players will need to carry that burden.

[Art d'Rocher]

Yeah, just on that I would say obviously this season at Juventus he's been used more as a kind of natural striker, but when he was at Lille and Gent to an extent he would actually be used as a number 10 at times as a second striker looking now and he's got 20 assists as well as the 39 goals for Canada. So I think you have the two sides to him that should really help them as well bring other players into play.

[Adam Leventhal]

Okay, so by the time you see us next time we will have seen all of the co hosts play in the World Cup. Obviously we've had Mexico already, but we will see the USA take on Paraguay, we will see Canada beat absolutely batter Bosnia just to rub Art d' Rocher's face in it. And we will reflect on it the next time you see us. Thank you very much to Art, Ione, Josh, the shirt is good and it's great that you're along with it. Keris as well, thank you very much for your time the last couple of days. Thanks to Josh, to Henry, to Jack on the ground at the World cup as well for us. Remember, you can watch and listen to us wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe to the channel. Stay across the Athletic app for all the World cup coverage. Free to read for the entire tournament. Everyone out there so do get stuck in and we are going to be with you right here six days a week. So that means we are back tomorrow to reflect on everything that we've been talking on today and look ahead to the rest of the games. Thank you.

[Sponsor/Advertiser]

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