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- [00:00]
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Adam Leventhal
The Athletic FC hi there and welcome to the Athletic FC podcast with me, Adam Leventhal. So we are one day out from the start of the World cup and today we're going to be getting into how the tournament's success will be judged on and off the field. Joining me in the studio in London is Jay Harris. How are you?
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Jay Harris
I'm all good, how are you?
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Adam Leventhal
Yeah, I'm good. I'm excited, I'm excited. Matt Slater is with us as well. How's your emotion check at the moment, Matt?
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Matt Slater
Yeah, it's good. I'm fine. I'm very excited and ready to go.
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Adam Leventhal
Excellent. Yeah, he's heading out to America very soon. Already there and living there is Adam Crofton in New York. How are you?
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Adam Crofton
I'm good. I feel like we've played a World cup before the World Cup's even started, but other than that, all good.
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Adam Leventhal
Yeah, we haven't paced ourselves. Have We. But we are ready to go. So it is the eve of the tournament, and I'm going to ask you a question. What does that mean? What does that mean, Jay? It's the eve of the tournament now. What does it mean? What's coming up?
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Jay Harris
What do you mean? What does it mean?
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Adam Leventhal
Come on, tell me. What do you think? What happens on the earth?
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Jay Harris
What does it mean to me? Or what does it mean in general?
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Matt Slater
Define Eve.
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Adam Leventhal
Come on.
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Jay Harris
It means that in theory, the biggest show on earth is about to take place over the next six weeks. Yeah, it's the good part of a World Cup. Means it brings everybody together. You're gonna, you know, sort of forge connections with people you've maybe not spoken to in a long time. If the country you support goes really deep into the competition, you're going to learn things about different countries. You're going to be. Normally it'd be watching random games in the middle of the day. Now you're going to be watching random games in the middle of the night. I'm already plotting which games I should and shouldn't stay up for. But principally it should be excitement for six weeks. But I'm not entirely convinced that's going to be the case.
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Adam Leventhal
Adam, what else does the eve of the tournament mean? No one's given me my answer yet.
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Adam Crofton
What do you want, a definition?
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Adam Leventhal
Yeah, but what happens on the eve of the tournament?
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Adam Crofton
Oh, eve of the tournament means Gianni speaks.
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Adam Leventhal
Yes.
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Adam Crofton
Oh, is that it?
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Adam Leventhal
Yes, that is the correct answer. Gianni Infantino is going to be speaking later on today, ahead of the tournament. And Matt, you would usually be going toe to toe with him. You've done it over the years. One question from you. What would you want to ask him today if you were going head to head with him?
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Matt Slater
Wow. I mean, he's. One question. God, he hasn't done one for three years. So there's a few. Don't forget the last one he did of these specific ones, as in the eve of the World cup was the infamous hour long today. I feel. Monologue.
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Adam Leventhal
Yeah. Yeah.
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Matt Slater
I think I would ask. I'd ask about this relationship with Trump and this, you know, the peace prize and, you know, has it all been worth it? I try and think of sort of a. A way to kind of frame, you know, you have gone as far as anyone has ever gone in terms of sport, of cozying up to a leader, and, you know, you kind of explained or your people explained for you the reasons to do it in the. You know, an organizer of a tournament has to have a good relationship with the, with the host government. Has it worked out? You know, what, what, what have you got for it?
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Adam Leventhal
Okay, so that's why, I mean, Adam, you've been writing about this in the Athletic today about that relationship between Trump and Infantino. Would you hone in on that and try and call him out on that?
- [05:10]
Adam Crofton
I'm not sure I would, because I think I know exactly what his answer would be to that, which is essentially, you know, President Trump's been a great support. We're going to have a safe and secure tournament, all of that sort of stuff. Only because I've heard him, I heard him answer it. I've sort of heard him at so many of these conferences now where he sort of has this stock response. I would probably ask him about the Somali referee. And, you know, his whole motive is his strap line is football unites the world, Football brings the world together. But you have a football tournament being held where one of your own, one of your own people, one of your own referees from Somalia is not able to enter the country and where fans from, well, at least four countries, nationals of four countries are facing travel bans. So how do you square that? How do you possibly continue to say this is a tournament that unites the world? It just doesn't make sense.
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Matt Slater
That's a much better question.
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Adam Leventhal
Yeah, but look, you know, you might be sitting side by side and you might have to ask a different question each.
- [06:17]
Matt Slater
Good cop, bad cop.
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Adam Leventhal
Let's get stuck into that story that has obviously been a big focus for a lot of people, and it centers on that Somali referee, Omar Attan, who was denied entry to the, to the U.S. jay, let me get your take on this, first of all, because obviously, you know, this would have been a once in a lifetime, potentially moment for him. Best referee in Africa. And he's going to be missing out on the human level. And we've heard a little bit from him since. I think he's been quite sort of careful about what he said, but ultimately he said yes. Yeah, I was ready. I had my papers, I had my visa, I had everything that I needed. And now that opportunity is gone. It's really sad, isn't it?
- [06:58]
Jay Harris
Yeah. For him, I'm sure deep down he's devastated. But like you said, I think he has been very careful with what he says in public. And just to give a little bit more background, context, he's been attending FIFA refereeing courses in Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. In 2025, he was the Confederation of African Football's Referee of the year. So this is something he's been building towards over the last few years. His pedigree is there. And so for him to end up in this situation, it's embarrassing. Not embarrassing for him, but embarrassing for, for FIFA and the US administration that they've allowed the situation to, to escalate in this manner. And I feel incredibly bad for him. Our colleague Graham Scott, former Premier League referee, has written something on the Athletic today about it. And there was one. One sentence which really popped out to me was at the last World cup, none of the six African referees featured in any of the knockout stages of the tournament. And that's a shame, right? It's a global game. We want people to be represented, whether that's countries, match officials at every stage of the competition. And it sounds like Omar Artang could have done that at this competition. He was the leading light for African referees. He's not going to be at the tournament now. And he actually returned to Somalia on Wednesday. And video footage has been released on social media which you'll be able to find of his return. He's basically given a hero's welcome. I've seen a clip that's about 30 seconds long and in it it looks as if he's being given a security escort. There's a middle aged woman who runs up to him at one point and hands him a bouquet of flowers. Someone drapes him in a flag. So even though he's not going to be able to, to participate in the World cup and do something he's been training for, for a long time, the, the way the Somalian public are perceiving him, as if he is a national hero.
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Adam Leventhal
And Adam, it's worth flagging. Do we know any more as to why he wasn't let in?
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Adam Crofton
Yeah, well, we have a version of events from the White House. When I asked the White House for comment about Omar Eltan, they've sent a statement attributable to a senior administration official and they say upon further inspection, derogatory information, including association with suspected members of terror organizations was discovered, making the traveller ineligible for admission to the United States under the Immigration and Nationality Act. As of yet, they've not detailed which group that would be or what the information is. I also asked because he was given a visa, because he had to have a visa to travel to the state. So what changed between visa being granted and then actually entering over the border as well? So I think there's going to be more and more that people attempt to find out about this in the coming Days and weeks. And also what FIFA's role is. You know, what FIFA knew before what they did at the border, Were they working with him? At what point they had to step back. So lots of questions.
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Adam Leventhal
Obviously, we've got this issue with the referee. We've had issues for Senegal, Uzbekistan, one of the squad members from Iraq as well, arriving. In terms of the feeling for those teams, do you think that they'll be surprised that this has actually manifested itself after all of the guarantees and all of the things like you mentioned before, that Gianni Infantino were saying before, that everyone would be welcome? They'll be thinking, well, hang on a minute, I thought you said that we were going to be okay here. But they're not.
- [10:25]
Adam Crofton
I think there would always have been some apprehension because, you know, look, I think even, even those in the football family don't necessarily take what Gianni says when his lips are moving, always at complete face value. To be. To be blunt, you know, that's. That's the conversations that, you know, we have behind the scenes where people say very different things privately to what they're prepared to say publicly. It's difficult in the sense of, you know, for years, we're now talking. For years, there has been conversations around what the visa situation is going to be in the United States. And we should say, by the way, although this has been heightened by the Trump administration, there has been uneasiness from America in general about the way in which it will be able to welcome the world and have a kind of open visa policy for a World Cup. Right. Even going back to the Biden administration, when I first moved to America, well, early 2024, Biden was still in power. FIFA were really struggling at that point to get meetings with Biden, to get meetings near the Oval Office. And at that point, what they wanted was that kind of. For those who went to the World cup in Qatar, there was this thing called a hire card, where essentially your ticket for the tournament or your pass for the tournament, it almost doubled up as a visa, subject to security screening, doubled up as a visa. And on top of that, FIFA also wanted for Canada, Mexico and the US to become a bit like the Schengen Zone of Europe, where you could move freely with one pass between these countries. And America just looked at them as if they were mad. Right? You want us to basically have an open border. Even in the Biden administration, you've got to remember how politically sensitive the border is as an issue in America, and by the way, how popular with some people, Trump's deportation And hardline immigration policies are, you know, that it's not. It is not simply the view of the majority of America that they want people to. They want people to be coming in with unfettered access. So we have to look at this as an America issue, but it's also been heightened by the Trump administration and the policies. And, you know, from his first day in power, what he signed the executive order protecting America against invasion. You know, the clues were there. This wasn't a secret. This was in plain sight all along. So for some of these things to be happening, I mean, if FIFA are surprised by them, they've been deluded.
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Adam Leventhal
Matt, in terms of Gianni Infantino, do you think that he's sort of hit a ceiling in terms of his control, which is, I suppose, a bit of an alien concept, which is for him, because he always tries to make out like he is the guy that is in control and can say these big things and they will come true. I did an interview yesterday with the BBC and I basically said that he's now realized that this is above his pay grade, that he can't control these immigration issues. And, you know, do you think that he'll be thinking, ah, I've got ourselves into a little bit of a situation or. Or is all of this going to melt away once the football starts and it's not going to be an issue?
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Matt Slater
Well, okay, Tommy, to answer your. Your first half of your question, it's hard to get into Gianni Ifatino's head, to be honest. He continues to sort of amaze and astound me. Look, he likes to pretend that he somehow bestrides the globe and is. Is unlike previous FIFA presidents, unlike previous Sporting Federation bosses, in that he is some kind of quasi political figure and deserves to be at Davos and meeting the Pope and in the White House and et cetera, et cetera. He seems to love all that. And, you know, he. He talks about football almost having this unique power that other sports, music, theater, whatever, you know, doesn't have. Football. Football can do these things that politicians can, you know, can't do either. But then when push comes to shove and the limits of FIFA's power, his power are shown up, then he immediately kind of, you know, turns on his heels and says, oh, hold on. Yeah, we're just supporting Federation. You know, we just, we're just organized. We're just humble chaps, you know, kind of like, you know, glorified versions of the people that run your grassroots tournament. We're just here to, you know, put on a tournament, you know, that we.
- [14:49]
Jay Harris
Those.
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Matt Slater
Those big, serious decisions aren't for us. So it really kind of just depends on what mood and what situation and what audience he's talking to in terms of, like, the. The issues melting away. Well, look, you know, I don't want to bang on too long here, but every single World cup, major world championship, in whatever sport you choose, Olympics, there are issues going in, and it will be nearly always around, like, the public cost of them. There might be some sort of unique thing about health or. Or whatever, or kind of a war kind of geopolitical situation. Same thing.
- [15:26]
Adam Crofton
Right.
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Matt Slater
And just to sort of, you know, do some of the recent ones. 2010, South Africa, crime, the cost, you know, could South Africa really afford these new stadiums? Brazil, kind of similar, but also with a kind of very acute situation around unrest to do with public infrastructure, bus networks, transport. There were riots before 2018, not that long after Russia had invaded the Crimea. There was, of course, the big sort of Salisbury poisoning attack where, you know, Russian Secret Service agents, you know, effectively tried to assassinate Russian people here, really use dangerous nerve agent. 2022, of course, migrant workers, labor rights, LGBT. Everyone remembers those. But then does everyone remember what happened once the game started and the first upset happened, the first worldie, the first new star, the first shots of, you know, fans being excited? Yeah, we forgot. Well, did we forget? We. We kind of parked those issues, didn't they? And sometimes they resurfaced again. But by and large, the sport takes over, and that is what. That's why we keep doing this. It's why sporting federations sort of get away with it. It's why sponsors, why broadcasters want to be associated. It's why we keep coming back. It's why countries want to host these things. The sport grabs us. The other stuff gets overshadowed, and for just a few weeks, we park that stuff. And sometimes we never come back to it. And that is a shame, but we nearly always park it, even if it's really bad. And I suspect exactly the same will happen here.
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Adam Leventhal
And I guess we will find out whether some of these issues are going to carry on throughout the tournament. We don't know yet. And we'll just have to see. See what happens.
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Jay Harris
I have one. One thing which crosses my mind, which I sort of want to get Matt and Adam's opinion on, is that with Qatar, I was looking at this a little bit earlier. It's a small country with a population of around 3 million people. All the games are being held in. In one location. Obviously, the size and Scope of this tournament is so much bigger and it will impact so many more people's lives and already has done so almost wonder if that means it's harder for those issues to go away because they're going to be in people's faces so much more. Or if you think the moment Messi scores, the US public are just going to sort of completely move on and forget about it.
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Matt Slater
Adam, you're there.
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Adam Crofton
Yeah, look, it's interesting. I mean, there's a different, I guess this is a slight tangent, but there's been so much conversation over the past few days on social media. Maybe it's just my algorithm of why aren't you lot treating this tournament right like you treated Qatar? And I think this sort of taps into this a little bit and there's a couple of key differences and that's not. And it's not to take away from any of the issues that we are talking about as we literally talk about this thing that people say we're not talking about.
- [18:26]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, we are doing it, aren't we? It is happening.
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Adam Crofton
There's two things I would say. The first is America is a country that talks about itself almost painfully so it spends its entire life talking about itself. It is locked in at the moment a decades long battle for its soul. Whichever side of that that you're on, all of the issues that are being reported out on during this tournament are being reported on by numerous American publications. So that's a big difference between Qatar and Russia. It doesn't need. And essentially I had this conversation the other day with one of the kind of rights groups that have been struggling to get kind of media attention for some of the issues or media attention for their reports. And I said to them, it's because we don't need a report from written in Scandinavia or Germany or the UK to tell us what the issues are in America. We know what they are because they're reported on every day. So there's a difference there with Qatar or Russia, where that is suppressed and there is not that reporting within a country. So I think that's an important distinction. And then the other distinction is people died to build Qatar's World cup. Right? There was a direct link between the competition itself and these kind of human rights abuses. Now, that's not to take away from any of the many, many, many things that we could talk about with America, but that direct link is not as clear and I think that explains some of it. And then also we have, you know, I live in America, right. It's an amazing Country, a lot of the people are amazing. We also still have probably a bit of a subconscious bias towards this, this, this place that is, you know, we have an imagination of what it. What we think it was, what we think it is, what we think it can be. And it. And it still feels slightly surreal to be having some of these conversations about the World Cup. That was meant to be. It was meant to be the easy one. Yeah, this was meant to be the easy one, right when it was, when it was given in 2018, nobody imagined at that point that it would become talked about in the way that it has. But, Jay, to answer your question, in terms of the American public, I think there's a lot of resentment towards FIFA at the moment from the American public because of the pricing. We're seeing Attorney generals, I mean, Texas came out today, New York, New Jersey, California, they're all doing investigations of some kind into the ticketing practices. I mean, like, you have to be really quite egregious with ticketing to get an investigation into ticketing in America. I mean, it's a crazy market here. So, you know, there is not goodwill here towards FIFA, I would say. And they need the soccer to kind of fix that. Yeah, the football.
- [21:12]
Adam Leventhal
And I suppose you've been over there too long. Yeah, I guess. Also what the USA needs in particular. I think, you know, Mexico will look after itself. Canada has its own different motivations in terms of football as well. But what the US needs is for the US to do well on the field.
- [21:34]
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- [23:05]
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- [23:42]
Adam Leventhal
Now. This summer, the Athletic is your definitive companion to the Men's World Cup. All of the coverage on the Athletic app is going to be free. There's, you know, dedicated World cup content all the way through a hub newsletter. There's explainers. There's a feature that dropped today which is absolutely fantastic. I don't always say these sort of things about athletic stuff, but this is truly sensational. The Stars of Soccer 200 strong player guide and I've got it in front of me. It looks beautiful. Legends, superstars, key players, rising stars, unsung heroes. You can click on the pictures. It'll take you through to a profile of each player. I recommend you just go and look at it, enjoy it, and then you can just check in with it throughout the tournament. There's loads of other stuff as well. Hard news, of course, and one piece today that we have on our site, which is from Adam crafton on the $25.8 million World cup jail in Kansas that isn't ready for the World cup, which is starting tomorrow. And that, Adam, is something that you discussed on a forthcoming episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out. Let's just get a little flavor of that.
- [24:56]
Adam Crofton
Speaking of accommodations, there is a particular big ticket item funded by taxpayers in Kansas City that again required a bit of a pop up construction here. Adam. Yeah, I mean this is of all the stories I think in the lead up to the World cup, this is one of the more bizarre ones, a modular jail. So it feels to me a bit pop up y in that sense. Did you know that Kansas City has not had a jail since about 2009? And does that surprise you? It is surprising because we live in. We live in America. Right. I was going to say if something America I thought could do, I thought it would be a city with jails. Yeah, we do. Incarceration. Right. So they've not had a jail since 2009. That has been sort of something that's been spoken about in the city for a while. There's been some pressure from local businesses. Now some of the city council members started to get the feeling of, well, we're going to have a World cup and we could have 650,000 visitors. And some of those smaller petty crimes could really start to ramp up, because what they do at the moment is transport people over 50 miles out of town to jails in kind of neighboring places. So they said we need a jail, and they said we need a jail quickly because we might need it during the World Cup. That could be a streaker.
- [26:17]
Matt Slater
Yeah.
- [26:18]
Adam Crofton
And I think it was maybe based on perceptions of soccer fans that some people would argue are fair and accurate, that other people would say are typecast and a little bit outdated.
- [26:28]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah. Despite your accent, hooliganism is known to us here.
- [26:32]
Adam Crofton
Right. Well, you've not seen my hooliganism yet. Right. There's still time left in the show.
- [26:38]
Adam Leventhal
So that is out for you right now. You can check that out on Pablo Torre Finds Out YouTube channel. Adam. I mean, we don't need to go into the whole story because people can watch it on there. You can read about it as well on the Athletic. But, I mean, is it going to open this jail? Are they going to get it done, or is it just not happening?
- [26:55]
Adam Crofton
It won't be ready for the World Cup, I would say. Well, not just. I would say the city would say it won't be operationally ready at all. And it's interesting because they put in 22 million last year. Then they put up another 3 million in January to get it ready. They waived all of their sort of environmental standards that you would usually have on a building like that to get it ready. They kept talking about how important it was that it's ready, and now it's not ready. It's actually not about the World cup at all. They've decided. So it's a fascinating thing in the sense of clearly, it's A place that just is not used to that level of, of tourists. There is going to be, you know, if you look at some of the games in county, you can have Argentina play there. There is going to be a lot of people going. You could have the Ronaldo v. Messi quarterfinal in Kansas City, which would be an extraordinary game. So it's, it's a, it's a, an interesting way for them to have spent 25 and a half million dollars. I mean, it's also fascinating. I would never have guessed that Kansas City has not had a jail since 2009. I mean, if there's one thing we know America can do, it's jails. So for a city like that to not have a jail for that long probably suggests they may need one. But clearly it was a project that has a time attached to it and it's not made it.
- [28:15]
Adam Leventhal
Now what I wanted to do is just get each of your takes on the three different nations. Cause obviously we focused a lot on the States, but I wanted to give some love to Mexico, so some love to Canada as well in terms of what success looks like for them in particular, because it's not just about America. Matt, from your point of view and your understanding of the situation, obviously we've got the first game at the Azteca Stadium, Mexico against South Africa. What does success look like for Mexico?
- [28:48]
Matt Slater
Well, I think I find the relationship between the co hosts really interesting because I was there, you know, during the, the bidding race. The United bid, as it was known back then, beat a bid for Morocco, beat it fairly handily in the end, mainly just because of, you know, wow, let's go to America and let's make loads of money and it's going to be really cool. Now it kind of felt at the time that Mexico and Canada were being tacked on a bit to sort of one get around the obvious question. Well, hold on. Relatively recently we were in the states 94. Is, is it your really your turn? So this kind of partly answered that question. And this was, bear in mind, this was before people were Talking about Enlarged 48 team, 104 games and all that. I think it also kind of, dare I say, softened the brand a little bit and sort of brought in a bit more votes. Look, you know, hey, England, England has failed many, many times with many, many bids and has to soften its brand as well. So I'm not, I'm not, you know, I don't, I'm not picking on the States here. And yet from the get go, this has been an American Show. And if you just look at what we've been talking about writing about for six months a year, whatever, it's American issues. This is America's tournament. And a number of times America has at times sort of gone, ah, you know, do you know what? Should we just do the whole thing? It's actually more complicated doing these little bits over here and there. They haven't. And I suppose that's to the credit. They at least have stuck to the plan that got voted on and won the bid anyway. So for Mexico, I think the nice story would be don't forget us. We are of the three, the true sort of football nation. Again, it's sort of slightly spoiled by the fact that Mexico's had a couple of World Cups. This is its third, but they get the first game. It'd be great. It's from a football story. For Mexico to progress in a tournament properly. That's been one of the kind of, you know, the great problems of Mexican football really dominant in North America, keeps winning. Concacass stuff doesn't really do it. I'm not sure this team actually is that good, but you never know, right? Fair wind and all that. I think they have some issues, you know, drug cartel issues. So a win would be none of that. A win would be full, vibrant, great pictures. Bring in the party, if you like, early on, the kind of authentic party and just getting and seeing the team do well.
- [31:19]
Adam Leventhal
Jay, let's come to you on Canada. Come on then.
- [31:22]
Jay Harris
In terms of what happens on the pitch, it would be about stepping out of the shadow of the US And Mexico. And I think the added intriguing element to this is of course Jesse Marsh is the head coach of the Canadas of Canada's team and he'd previously applied to become the U.S. men's National Team head coach. I think that's really interesting. This is only Canada's third appearance at a World Cup. They've lost all six of their their previous games. There's some injury question marks around Alfonso Davies, Moyes, Bombito, their center back. So there's nowhere near the same level of pressure on them to, to progress deep in the competition as there is on the the U.S. and Mexico. But they've had a very good trajectory under Marsh over the last couple of years. And I think they'll be feeling confident that maybe for the first time they can show to people that it's not all just about ice hockey in Canada and that they do have like a, a promising football program.
- [32:13]
Adam Leventhal
And just a quick one from you, Adam, on, on on the US in terms of their, their footballing place. And obviously we've got, you know, the NBA Finals going on at the moment. There are other sports that are going on and competing with the early phase of the, of the World Cup. You know, is this going to be the moment where the USA really connects with its soccer team or is that just going to come? You know, it might just be some ephemeral moment where it catches light, it goes viral, and everyone sort of goes, oh, I didn't even realize this was happening, but I like this.
- [32:47]
Adam Crofton
I think people know it's happening. You know, it's. People now know it's happening. It's taken them a while, but that they're sort of realizing they know there's something going on. They know the football Olympics are here. As I has now been said to me about four times in the past year, the US Team, what I would say, I mean, if you just mentioned the, the basketball and the New York Knicks has been genuinely. It has felt amazing in New York City as the buzz about it. I, I was out for dinner on Monday night, and as we were walking down the street after the, while the game was still going on, everyone you walked past had their phone out and was watching this game on their phone. If they weren't in a bar, if they weren't at home, I can't imagine what the engagement numbers on, on these games must be because it is certainly within New York. I mean, everyone is wearing kind of the orange and blue. Every bar is now dressed in orange and blue. Restaurants that don't put TVs on have got TVs on. It's. And that's exciting. It's also exciting. I think the World cup has to try and tap into that in New York. There's a game next week, France and Senegal, on the, on the day where the Knicks will play, which will be chaos in many ways and a bit scary, but also very exciting.
- [34:07]
Adam Leventhal
But to Adam, like, tap into that. Tap into it. How are they going to do that when it doesn't, when it doesn't necessarily come naturally to a US Audience to dial into their soccer team?
- [34:22]
Adam Crofton
They have to win. It's like Americans love to be involved in anything that is winning. Why is everyone watching the Knicks now? Because they're winning. They win last night, the other night, but in general they are good and they are winning. If the American, if the American team win the first game and then you've got probably, I mean, just the nature of this tournament is probably a week until the next one that will create a momentum and generate momentum. They really have to win that. You know, I said someone involved the US Team the other day. I was like, please just win the first game. Just give us a week of your country being really, really, really collectively into this, because it will make the tournament feel a lot more exciting on the ground, particularly without, you know, Italy here and Ireland here, which would have, you know, I think, created a huge buzz. And the other thing to remember, I mean, you talk about the U.S. audience. The U.S. audience is not just the U.S. men's national team. The U.S. audience Is diasporas. The U.S. audience IS those huge Brazilian communities in the northeast of the United States, the Colombians in Miami, the Iranians in Los Angeles. There will be an excitement from this that actually the color of this tournament will be in the diversity of America and it will project a very different image of America to what has maybe become an international image of America over the past year or so. And I think some of that will pleasantly surprise people.
- [35:54]
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- [38:18]
Adam Leventhal
Adam, you mentioned one section of society in Los Angeles and that is the Iranians. It's worth sort of pointing to one of the big issues that is a backdrop to this World cup and it will impact potentially the success of it. It will certainly be a subplot throughout it, and that is the, the ongoing conflict between the United States and Iran. And I was over in, in Turkey covering them before they departed to go to Mexico. Obviously they switched their training base from Arizona to Mexico. They've had issues with visas, another country with issues with visas. And I just got an opportunity to speak to some people within the camp, including players, and one of them was Alireza Johan Bash, who used to play for Brighton in the, in the Premier League. And he spoke to me about the emotions facing the Iran players with all of the noise going on around them.
- [39:17]
Alireza Jahanbash
To be honest, the biggest challenge we have is obviously the situation for the local players that they were forced to stay home for a couple of weeks without any games and training and stuff. So that was actually the biggest challenge. And then we have a couple of players playing in uae, two, three guys playing outside in Europe. So players who play outside, they have not much issue because they've been in a game and training situation. But in general, of course, like you said with the whole situation, it hasn't been easy. So that plays a part. But what we try, especially like with us, like more experienced players, we try to make sure that this Team United is there. So we keep telling the boys that outside noise, whatever happening outside, we cannot control it as long as we control inside that the team cohesion and stuff and like the, let's say, the relationship between the players and stuff and stuff, that's the most important thing. So that's, I think we are there with that. I'VE been surprised myself that how good, how close the boys are despite the whole situation back home. And I keep telling them, guys, it's going to be a long camp, it's going to be weeks until we get the to to where we want to be. So just make sure that, you know, you make it so much fun inside that you're not missing much from outside.
- [40:37]
Jay Harris
Can I ask you something off the back of that?
- [40:39]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah, go ahead.
- [40:40]
Jay Harris
And, and firstly I should point out that ahead of the last World Cup I interviewed Samangodos who was playing for Brentford at the time. He's still a member of the squad because it was quite a contentious period of time back then because there have been protests in Iran after the death of Masa Amina. So this is not the first time that the squad has sort of had to, to deal with situations outside of their control. I think in your piece there was one, one sort of detail which sprung to mind and I think it's that 17 of the players are based in Iran and have been together for the last couple of months and I just sort of wondered if, if that sort of helped the group sort of come together and unite because they are spending not just the six, seven weeks of the tournament together, they've actually been together for 2, 3 months by the end of it. And if that sort of brought them all together.
- [41:25]
Sponsor/Advertiser
I think so.
- [41:26]
Adam Leventhal
And I think that that's what Alireza Jahanbash was, was sort of talking about the fact that it's sort of a double edged sword that yeah, they can bond together but they do also have that concern of we have been together for such a long time but also at the same time they have a concern that they haven't been able to play much competitive football because the Iranian league was suspended after the start of the war on, on February the 28th. So look, I think in terms of their priority on the footballing side of things, this is their fifth World cup and for the first time they want to get out of their group and they've got games against New Zealand, Belgium and Egypt to try and get through. And then of course, and this is something that maybe I can throw to the guys, if they get through, if they finish second and the US finish second, then we've got one hell of a game potentially happening in the knockouts. I'll come to Adam in a minute. But Matt, from your point of view, have you known anything like this where we've got a co host of a tournament that effectively declared war on one of its participating nations. And now we've got this constant narrative from Both administrations, the U.S. and Iran, as to whether they're going to be safe, whether they should be playing, whether they shouldn't be having visas revoked. All this sort of stuff, I mean, it's, it is an incredible story. And that's what makes me think, when we go back to the beginning of this, this, this podcast is will these sort of things be able to melt away? I can't see this topic in particular going away at all.
- [43:07]
Matt Slater
No. And, and I, and I possibly should have added a little bit to that answer where I do worry that some of the, a lot of this stuff is going to kind of rumble on, rumble on in the gaps, ticket pricing, this issue and possibly some others as well. I mean, to go to your point, no, we've all you've, our listeners, viewers will have read, heard lots of people talk about this. We cannot, no one can think of a major sporting event where one of the hosts has actually been at war with a participant.
- [43:40]
Adam Leventhal
Yes.
- [43:41]
Matt Slater
Lots and lots of times. Where host participant had recently been in conflict or had, you know, a very lively rivalry, a strong, bitter rivalry, if you like, but actually at war. No, I can't think of it. And of course, we've been in this very strange ceasefire period for a long
- [44:03]
Adam Leventhal
time,
- [44:05]
Matt Slater
but it's not a classic ceasefire, is it? And we're speaking on Wednesday and yesterday and Tuesday, kinetic action, helicopters, missiles, it flared up again. So this is unprecedented. And I think this will rumble on, I think once it kind of starts, the team to pull them out would be huge, strange, odd, a mega, mega story. They've come to a sort of compromise where Iran is effectively basing itself in Mexico and popping in, popping out. But if they were to, if they were to, you know, that, that path that you outlined and they were to meet, my God, I mean, they've played each other before. And in fact, the last time they played each other, it was actually sort of a kind of relatively peaceful, optimistic time. This, this looks hard, very, very, very hard to see how this will be, you know, framed in that language. And of course, we haven't, Adam, sort of touched upon it. The diaspora, elements of this huge Iranian diaspora in the States, particularly in California, the largest, I believe. These are anti regime Iranians. They are going to be protesting against the team who. Well, will they, this is going to be an interesting dynamic. Will they be seen as something to get behind or will they be seen as a symbol of the regime that they dislike?
- [45:29]
Adam Leventhal
I think there's so many complexities around this issue in terms of the flag, what's going to happen with the anthem? Are fans actually going to be able to get into the game? And Adam, you've reported on this. Are they going to be able to take revolutionary flags into the stadiums and things like that? And look, we will continue to cover it on the athletic all the way through, as you would expect us to. But let's, let's finish on a final point from each of you if we can. And you can either sort of be crystal bally or you can sort of think.
- [46:03]
Alireza Jahanbash
Right.
- [46:03]
Adam Leventhal
Well, no, I definitely know what's going to happen because I'm the all seeing eye. What do you think will be the thing that defines this World Cup? A player off the field, whatever, to make it a success or a failure? What do you reckon, Jay?
- [46:18]
Jay Harris
I knew you were just a tiny
- [46:19]
Adam Leventhal
little question for you.
- [46:21]
Jay Harris
I don't think the US will do that. Well, whether that defines.
- [46:26]
Adam Leventhal
It's like that Roy Hodgson gif.
- [46:27]
Jay Harris
Oh yeah, that's just my opinion. Other US guys, I don't think the US will do that well. And I think although there's not a huge deal of fun and excitement about some elements of this World cup at the moment, I think them getting knocked out early will sort of suck away the rest of it as well. Right, that's my gut feeling.
- [46:44]
Adam Leventhal
Okay, that's a good one. Sorry. And we can clip these up and play them later when they get to the final. Adam, go on, you're one. What will define this World Cup?
- [46:53]
Adam Crofton
I think for the audience at home it will be what happens on the field, it will be stars, it will be a television product. I think for people here this is quite boring. But I think it will be transportation in America that is not used to mass public transit. So both the kind of internal flights that Fanta will have to take between the tournament in the peak of summer, where there's storms and there's a lot of heat and all of those kind of things, but then also America's ability to transport fans, you know, when many car parking spaces aren't available, I think is actually functionally going to be one of the biggest challenges. And if they get that right, that will actually go a long way to making the experience for people who visit a lot better.
- [47:38]
Adam Leventhal
But they're not going to get it right, are they?
- [47:42]
Adam Crofton
There'll be bumps in the road, I would imagine, but I mean they've had eight years to plan for it, so I hope they get it right.
- [47:48]
Adam Leventhal
Okay, fine. So you're okay. So that's fine. That's optimism. I just remember having been there last year and just trying to get away from a stadium or getting near it. It's just a complete, complete nightmare at times.
- [47:58]
Adam Crofton
But fingers crossed I would say, Adam, it's, I mean their host committees have had eight years to do a completely different transportation plan. So it shouldn't be anything like your usual experience. Whether it's an NFL game or a Gold cup game or whichever Copa America, their plans should work. Like if they don't, it's, I mean it's like what have you been doing this whole time?
- [48:23]
Adam Leventhal
Yeah. So that's it. So that's an interesting one to watch. So that's the sort of the US based priority defining moment. And Matt, finally to you defining of this.
- [48:34]
Matt Slater
Yeah, I think it's going to be money, you know, sort of catch all phrase, the commercialization of sports, you know, kind of the Americanization of football. So everything from dynamic pricing for tickets, just the sheer cost of these tickets is going to be a story through the tournament. I also think things like the water break, you know, is that the is have we gone to quarters now? Are there going to be adverts in there? And a whole, whole host of other stuff. You know, just the other day there was the thing about pay $79 and put your message up on a Jumbotron all these little things. I think just as a catch all money commercialization of sport. That's why FIFA have gone there. You know, they have gone to the world's largest economy, but the world's largest sports and entertainment economy economy by a mile. That's why we're here. And is, is it just a sort of in out cash grab or is it in to become a bit more like you to learn from you that I think is going to, is going to be what defines this show me the money.
- [49:37]
Adam Leventhal
That is what it's all about, isn't it? For FIFA, for this tournament. Guys, thank you very much for your time. Matt, I know you're heading out to the World cup soon. Adam's obviously already out there. Jay, you're going to be out there as well, which is great on the podcast. We are also going to be out there later stage of the tournament. And just one word, obviously we started this by talking about Gianni Infantino and his news conference which will be interesting to see what happens with it. I asked the guys what their question would be. Drop in the comments what you would like to ask Gianni Infantina. Keep it polite. All right ladies and gents, keep it polite, drop it in the comments and then we'll see on tomorrow's show whether those questions were asked and what he has come up with. So thanks to Jay, thanks to Matt, thanks to Adam. Keep an eye for Adam on Pablo Torre finds out they they won a big prize recently on that show. So check it out wherever you get your podcasts. I'll be back tomorrow where we will be looking ahead to the opening game of the World cup and we'll also find out if Gianni Infantino's gone all today, I feel once again Take it easy
- [50:47]
Sponsor/Advertiser
Foreign. This episode of the Athletic FC is brought to you by Hotels.com when you're booking a hotel, here's a simple question. Why wouldn't you use hotels.com it really is all in the name. As a member, you save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels around the world and earn rewards. Rewards on every single stay. Which means the trips you're taking now help pay for the ones you're already dreaming about. And unlike some other places, there are no blackout dates. So when you want to travel, your rewards are ready to go. So whether you're planning a grand adventure to follow your national team around North America this summer, or whisking your special someone away for an escape because you've been glued to the football for weeks, make sure to book@hotels.com and start earning rewards. Because when it comes to hotels, it's simple. Hotels.com it's all in the name.
- [51:48]
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Matt Slater
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