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- [00:00]
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Charlie Eccleshare
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- [02:11]
Salesperson
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [02:18]
Ayo Akimwalere
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwalere. Spurs have lost 19 of their last 43 matches in the Premier League and their most recent defeat was particularly damaging.
- [02:30]
Advertiser
So the party is in the blue corner, Tottenham floundering in the bottom half.
- [02:36]
Ayo Akimwalere
So have spurs evolved under Ante Postecoglou and will he be given the time to turn their season around? Joining me today we have the Athletics Tottenham writer Jack Pitt Brook and also Charlie Eccleshare, who has actually swapped spurs coverage for tennis this summer. Anyway, Jack let's get into this. The stats aren't great and the defeat to Chelsea was the 11th time that Tottenham lost a Premier League game after going two or more goals ahead. That's four more than any other side in the competition's history. From where you're sitting, just how damaging was that match against Chelsea on the weekend?
- [03:16]
Advertiser
I actually don't think Sunday was especially damaging in itself. It's a type of. It wasn't that different from the game between the two sides last season. And Tottenham did play really well, I thought for about 30, 35min. In a way which really rattled Chelsea. Much more damaging was the Bournemouth defeat, the Ipswich defeat, the Crystal palace defeat, the Brighton defeat. And it's why the real problem they've got is not so much losing to Chelsea, it's the fact they've lost 45% of their league game so far, which is just an unsustainably high percentage. But it does certainly add to this sense that they are really, really struggling with this inconsistency which they cannot seem to shake. And if they don't shake it, then I'm afraid things are only going to head one way.
- [04:02]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah, Charlie, the stats keep coming. Spurs 11th in the Premier League after 15 games and having only won one of their last seven matches across all competitions. That was the four nil win away at City. Surely this project was supposed to bring a bit more consistency to spurs as well.
- [04:19]
Charlie Eccleshare
Yeah, I think by this point the expectation was that things would have settled a bit more. Yeah, it does make it hard to make sense of them and it doesn't. The most damning thing in a way is it doesn't come as a massive surprise. I mean, Jack and I were talking on WhatsApp during the international break and I said sort of half jokingly, but half seriously. I was like, well we know what will happen now. They'll beat City, then they'll lose to Fulham and they'll just be back to where they were. And obviously in the end they, they drew with Fulham but then they've lost to Bournemouth and Chelsea. And so it does feel like that City win. Not that it's rendered irrelevant, but it hasn't been a springboard, you know, it's just been a continuation of this very up and down season that they've had. That makes it very hard sort of make sense of them. Because a team that can go and beat the champions away and, and yes, it's a champion in a slightly diminished form, but even so that's an incredible result and you know, should feel Like a statement win. But then in its previous match, lost to Ipswich, who haven't won another game all season. That's an incredible gap between their best and their worst. And obviously you think of the best teams and they're able to lift their floor to a point where even if they're not at their best, they're not playing great, they can still sort of grind out results. This Tottenham team don't at the moment seem to do that, especially away from home. I mean, that is, you know, if they go behind or get into a difficult game away, they lose, maybe they draw. I mean, they've won four games away from home in the Premier League this calendar year against United, against City, against Villa, against Sheffield United, which is kind of irrelevant. But Those are all 3 nil, 4 nil wins. They haven't. They haven't had a tight away win in a long, long time. And that's when you really see a team's character often. And that's been going on for really, for way too long for them now.
- [06:00]
Ayo Akimwalere
Jack, I mean, what do you think is the reason for the inconsistency? Is it tactical? Is it fragility, mentally from the players?
- [06:09]
Advertiser
I think it's basically that the way they play is so demanding. I kind of always think of it as being. It's like a house of cards. Like if everything is. If everything is in place, it's fantastic. And when they're. When Tottenham are on it, they are unbelievably good. We've seen that the way they've destroyed City twice this season. United away, Villa at home and so on. But because it's. Because it's such a kind of, I guess, a distinct way of playing. It's so unusual, if you take one card out of the whole thing, it falls apart. Like, you need. You need incredible performance levels from everyone in the team. You need. It's incredibly physical as well, in the way that people, I think, underestimate. You know, it's only works if they can completely outrun the opposition, and if they can't, if their physical levels drop a bit, then the whole thing falls apart. They obviously take huge risks in how they. In terms of the high line and allowing so much space in behind and both fullbacks flying forward at the same time. So it's a very. It's a kind of high risk, high reward system. And if it does, if one thing goes wrong, the whole thing collapses. And I think that. And therefore, unless the players are all fit and firing and, you know, performing to a sort of 8, 9, 10 out of 10 level every single week. They're not going to win games because they make it so difficult for themselves.
- [07:26]
Charlie Eccleshare
Just to come in on that. If you think about when spurs had their best run, which was, you know, when they won eight and drew two of their first 10 league games under an, they. They were able to have a really settled lineup. They had a real consistency about the selection. They were generally only playing once a week. That is, that is conditions that don't. Those are conditions that don't come along too often for, for an elite Premier League team because, you know, the nature of it is you're playing twice a week, you're having to chop and change constantly because of injuries, suspensions, fatigue, what have you. And, and I guess that is kind of the question is that when you take out the sort of perfect lab conditions, how well can they adapt? I think the point Jack makes there is really salient because at the moment it does look a bit like you take out, you know, and that's true of most teams. Apart from like, teams like Man City, if you take out some key component parts, there are difficulties, and I think it is particularly pronounced in a system like Anges, that can look quite exposed if it's, you know, it just takes a little bit to go wrong and then suddenly it can look pretty wild and vulnerable.
- [08:29]
Ayo Akimwalere
Elite Premier League team. Is that where Tottenham want to be, Jack, or is that where they actually are? You build a squad, you're hoping it's elite, but from performances, can we say this is an elite Premier League team?
- [08:41]
Advertiser
Well, I think they've. It's difficult to assess. I mean, I think they've got some really, really good players. I think the first 11 on its day, it's not a long way away from Arsenal and Liverpool, so maybe a bit further away from City. But I also think that they don't really have the depth and if they want to. If they want to come into the top four this season, which would make sense given they came fifth last year. I think that I just don't really. I think they probably don't have the options in reserve. I think it's a great squad for two or three years time, but for right now, I just. I think they probably don't have the resources, particularly given that they want to play in this, in this very demanding way, like as Charlie says, to play this way and to also be in Europe, I think they probably needed like a Manchester City level of squad and they don't have that. And I think that if they weren't In Europe, it would maybe be okay if they played in a different way. It would be. Maybe be okay. But it's the combination of the fixture schedule, the demanding style of play, and the, frankly, fairly thin squad, which they have, like, all of those, you know, something's got to give, basically. Like, you can't have all those things together at the same time.
- [09:47]
Charlie Eccleshare
I mean, they're playing so much more than they did last season, because last season, not only were they not in Europe, they went out of the cups early. They played 41 games total, which is basically the minimum. You know, 40 is the minimum that a Premier League team can play. And obviously now, not only are they in Europe and they're in. And it's a kind of bloated Europe this season, but they've also. They're still in the Carabao Cup. So that is a big change. That's a lot more. That's a lot more sort of demands that being put on the squad. And now you look at the, the summer business, yes, some players came in and a lot of really exciting players came in, but whether they did enough to really bolster the squad for. For the here and now, that looks questionable at this point.
- [10:28]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah, I really want to go into that a little later on, but before that, I just have to play this clip from Danny Kelly, the host of our brilliant spurs podcast, the View from the Lane. This was from Monday's show. Take a listen to this.
- [10:39]
Danny Kelly
They're not playing football. They're playing part of. They're playing foot or ball. I'm not sure which it is. Or the middle bit. They're playing oppa. You can't have a team that doesn't defend its goal either by, as you say, Manchester City, Barcelona, defending the ball or defending their territory. I don't know that this experiment, and it was. It is an experiment. It is a. It's never been tried in the Premier League before that you're just going to go all out. You know, you remember my, my phrase from two or three years ago when we were in the middle of the defensive version of Spursman, said, I'd rather risk losing 3, 2 in order to win the game. 3, 2. I stick by that. But we're not doing that at the moment. We are making it almost certain that in half the games we play, we will lose because we're only playing opa.
- [11:26]
Ayo Akimwalere
I mean, there were so many nuggets from that podcast to listen to. Jack, you did very well to stay relatively measured through that podcast. But look, Daddy's talking about spurs playing oppa. Don't get me started on what he was talking about Romero doing. CROFT turns. But that's a whole different conversation. Like, Charlie, you know, how would you have responded if he was still on that podcast to spurs, his oppa?
- [11:48]
Charlie Eccleshare
Yeah, I think, like I normally did a sort of, like, it'll be okay, Danny, don't worry. I'll come in and say something positive and reassuring was sort of what I was generally tasked with doing. But in that instance, it's hard not to laugh. I mean, that is. Yeah, that's Danny at his best.
- [12:05]
Ayo Akimwalere
How did you stay so. So chill through it, Jack? I mean, he was really on one and I feel his pain. I think anyone who's listening to that can understand from a fan's perspective just how frustrated he is with spurs at this moment in time.
- [12:18]
Advertiser
Yeah, yeah, certainly. But I actually said to him after he said that that I don't think it's. I don't think. I don't think it's true to say that Ange doesn't care about defending. You know, Tottenham have a defensive method and only, I think five teams in the Premier League have conceded fewer goals than them this season. Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Nottingham Forest and Manchester United. So I don't think that Tottenham are especially bad at defending. They just have their own way of defending, which is basically staying on the front foot all the time, playing on the opposition half, pressing really high, keeping a high line, and, you know, it doesn't always work. We have seen them concede lots of goals on the counter attack over the last year and a half. Lots of goals and set pieces. But they do, they do have a method. The problem, as I said a minute ago, is that for this method to work, everything has to be in perfect sync. You know, they've obviously had, like, Van de Fenne, Romero injured recently. They need to be incredibly good with their pressing from the front and in midfield, they need to be really sharp on set pieces, which they were at the start of the season, but not so much recently. So, as ever, like with spurs, the bar that they've set for themselves to defend is so high, and if they fail to clear that bar, then it all falls apart.
- [13:29]
Charlie Eccleshare
And yeah, I mean, the missing players is key. I know it's talking about injured players is always a difficult one because, you know, injuries are part of football. But clearly when you lose your two centre backs, that that is going to harm you. And I do. You know, Van der Ven is. We've said it a million times, but he is so key to how they play with his pace. But he's maybe symptomatic of it because he is so key. But he is prone to hamstring injuries now. There's no getting away from that. Like he's had a number of them. It's, it's really unfortunate for him. So, you know, I don't think that would have come as a huge surprise if you told a Spurs fan in the summer that yeah, Van Van's gonna have a hamstring injury. They'd be like, well, yeah, that's sort of baked in now. Can we have, you know, there needs to be backup and that's not an easy thing to do. There aren't many. Well, there are. There's basically no one as quick as Van De Ven. There aren't many left footed centre backs knocking around who are lightning quick, who you know, can just slot in if he's out. But that's the issue they have at the moment that a lot of those key players that their squad building is at a point at which they don't have necessarily replacements and unfortunately they are picking up injuries quite repeatedly in key areas. You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Accamulere.
- [14:41]
Listener
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- [16:20]
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- [16:32]
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- [16:34]
Charlie Eccleshare
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- [16:35]
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- [17:34]
Ayo Akimwalere
Jack I want to talk about angepostecoglou after that 1 nil defeat to Bournemouth last week, Postecoglou went over to the Traveling Fountain. This clip has gone viral really on social media who are voicing their disappointment at the result. Do you see Postecoglou coming across a little bit more, I guess agitated?
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Advertiser
I think he was a bit low on Sunday after the Chelsea game. I think he it's very clear and he is open about the fact that he knows this season is not going to plan and he, he accepts that they're in probably a lot. I I mean I imagine a much worse situation than he hoped they would be by this point. I think the ball, I think what happened at Bournemouth would have taken quite a lot out of him because even with Conte Mourinho we never really saw anything like that. I mean obviously Mourinho was manager during COVID so the bad spell that spurs were in, they never really had fans hammering him for it. And then Conte was obviously recovering from illness in Italy for a lot of his last few months in as Spurs. So we didn't really see a scene like that with an away and turning on a manager. But, yeah, I definitely think the last few weeks would have taken a lot out of postecoglou.
- [18:46]
Ayo Akimwalere
Do you see that as well, Charlie? It's not just these last couple of games, but I feel like the way this season seems to be panning out, you almost feel the weight on his shoulders in many respects, because inevitably he was hired to bring a different style of football, but an optimism back to the club.
- [19:03]
Charlie Eccleshare
Yeah, I mean, that was such a huge part of it. If you think of those early weeks and, you know, the fans singing his name after every game, they were completely enthralled to him. They were so ready after Conte to fall in love, you know, and sort of have like a Pochettino figure again. And they did. They threw themselves in. You know, they were just fully into it. And then I think the City game last year was a big moment. The home game where, you know, fans didn't want spurs to win. That really hurt him, I think, like, I'd never seen him like that. You know, he was really, really upset by it and I think a bit embarrassed because he'd slightly dismissed it the day before as a kind of. Yeah, that's a sort of social media, Twitter thing. That's not actually going to happen at the game. It did then happen. And on that night, if you remember, he kind of got on a bit of a row with a fan as well. So we have seen a bit of this before. Obviously, that was slightly different. And, you know, he's always very good at saying, you know, he's not going to tell fans how to feel. He said that right from the start, right in those early weeks when he was said, you know, should the fans temper their expectations? And he said, no, you know, let them dream, etc. So I think having a connection with the fan base is really important to him. Bear in mind as well, at Celtic, they loved him and you watch him talking and he's. He's like this sort of preacher to the following. They're all enthralled to him when he's talking after title wins and what have you. So I think. I think that will have hurt him and, you know, he really wants to put it right. And it's hard when you're sort of struggling a bit for answers. And I think he probably does sense that that early optimism has changed a bit. And, you know, the fact they played that. It was at Bournemouth, it did make me think, because that equivalent fixture last season was in August, it was his third game, they won 2 nil. They played really well. He was interviewed after and he did the, I'm just copying petmate thing, and everyone loved him and it was just like, wow, football moves quickly. Because now here he is and he's got his own fans booing him. Or some of them, anyway.
- [21:03]
Ayo Akimwalere
Well, Jack, I want to talk about sort of the bigger picture a little later on in terms of the overall issues at the club. Firstly, I'm just interested in your stance on Ange's job right now, and also maybe the club stance on Ange's job right now. Because I read the piece that you put out on the Athletic right now and you were saying, you know, as bad as results are right now, there's still a significant upside to keeping the manager. Could you explain what you meant by that?
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Advertiser
Yeah. So, basically, I think that if you stick with him, it's in the hope that the inconsistency they've shown, they can kind of turn that into consistency. I still think there is a slim hope that they can replicate their good days and kind of stop having the bad days. I know it feels kind of unlikely now because they are so inconsistent and frankly, there's more bad days than good days recently. But given, like, a bad team can't play as well as they did at City, basically. And so I think that if they get players back and if they can maybe add in January, although fundamentally, I think it will come back to players coming back from injury then, and if they could just settle down a bit. I think this. I think the prize of Tottenham being consistent and replicating their good days is so big that it's worth. It's kind of worth buying a ticket for, basically. Like, it's worth. Is. It's worth paying the price to see if you can get there.
- [22:26]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah, my thing is, like, both of you, please, Charlie, go first if you want, is that, yes, if spurs do stick with this manager, and if I take what you said at the top, Jack, about it having to be so perfect all the time for this system to work, I mean, how sustainable is that over a long period of time? Realistically, Charlie, if, you know, you get an injury here and they all fall, the deck of cards just falls apart again. We're back to where we started.
- [22:49]
Charlie Eccleshare
Yeah, I mean, I guess two things there. One is that you hope that over time you build up a squad that is more resistant to these things and you have more, like, for, like, placements, and that Takes a little bit of time as you kind of evolve the squad to one that you really like. I guess the other thing, I mean for me where I come from though on that is that like, I just don't see a huge upside in making a change now. Why not see the season out and see where it takes you? And it's possible this way of playing we're describing, yes, that's probably not sustainable for great league form, but maybe it's enough to run hot in the Carabao cup or the FA cup or the Europa League, you know, because you don't have to be the best team in those competitions. You need to play well for a few matches, you know, to win the Carabao cup, they've got to be good for four more games or potentially even three. They could be bad in one of the semi final second legs. So. And I kind of feel at this point that to me seems more important, you know, than. Yes, they could do what they did in 21, 22 and make a change and get someone in like Conte and sort of shock therapy their way to the Champions League again. But was that that great? Not really. And also there's not really a Conte equivalent out there for them. So, yeah, I just think, yes, we'll see how sustainable it is in a league sense, but maybe it's enough in a cup. And right now, yeah, I just think you've got to see it out, see where this takes you and then reassess at the end of the season our.
- [24:08]
Ayo Akimwalere
Spurs fans to feel then, Jack, that it's going to get much worse than better in the immediate future.
- [24:15]
Advertiser
I think in the immediate future. It depends on. Well, it depends on Romero's injury, which I imagine we'll hear more about later today when possible gives his press conference. It depends on van defense, availability. When is Vicario going to come back? Are they going to do anything in January? They've got some huge games coming up as well. Like I think a lot of the mood. I mean, I agree with what Charlie says about how they're probably better geared for the cups than for, than for the league. But if they lose to Manchester United next week in the quarterfinal, I think that will really, that will, that will change the mood a fair bit, I think. So that's a massive game. And then they've still. I mean, Saints on Sunday is a huge game. You know, Saints got five points in 15 games. I don't really see how Tottenham could not win that game. Or rather what, what I mean by that, I don't see how. I don't think the poster Coglu can afford to not win that game. I think it'll be very difficult for him if they don't. So yeah, I think it will get. There's definitely some bumpy moments ahead. You know, spurs have got some difficult games. They've got Liverpool coming up as well, of course. But I think that if they, if they can just, if they can just somehow get their way through the next two weeks and then start, maybe start to get people back, then perhaps January will look a bit better.
- [25:34]
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- [26:02]
Advertiser
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- [26:31]
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- [27:31]
Charlie Eccleshare
This is the Athletic FC podcast with I.O. acamolera.
- [27:38]
Ayo Akimwalere
Let's think about the bigger picture. I mean spurs have made some summer signings, young promising players. Lucas Bergwal, Archie Gray. Interesting strategy. How do you think it's worked out so far?
- [27:50]
Charlie Eccleshare
Yeah, I mean the interesting thing with that is I think spurs is the young players. Spurs have is the envy of pretty much everyone in almost you could say European football. Like they've got so many really exciting players coming through but, but I know that for a lot of fans that's kind of like well, yeah, great.
- [28:06]
Ayo Akimwalere
What about now?
- [28:07]
Charlie Eccleshare
Yeah, yeah, that sort of three or four years time. But yeah, what about now? And was there, you know, was there enough done in the summer for the here and now? And Solanke came in obviously Oda Bears. I think that shifts things because we've barely seen him unfortunately because of injury. If, if he'd come in and you know, even if he'd been at sort of Solanke levels, then I think you'd be saying, well, they have made some, you know, two fairly significant signings there. But yeah, I think at this point you, you. It's legitimate to make that argument. When you've got guys like Bergval and Gray who clearly are really talented, but it doesn't seem like they're, you know, they're not really ready to be starting Premier League games in the eyes of the manager, that is a problem in a way because you're, you're putting a lot of stress on, on a sort of smaller pool of players and asking them to play a lot of Premier League and Europa League games and that's kind of adding to the burden on them and potentially the injuries as well. So I think it's legitimate to question whether they got the balance quite right. If you're talking about the immediate term.
- [29:07]
Advertiser
I think the problem they've got is that given, given how demanding the way they play is and given the busy fixture schedule this season, they really needed the squad players they signed in the summer to play a lot of football. I think as Charlie says, to take the burden off the first team players. But Otter Bear started two league games and obviously he's been injured. Grace started one league game, which was Bournemouth last week and Bergwald hasn't started a league game yet. Richarlison, who, you know, obviously came in as a big money signing, he's had his injury problems. He hasn't started a single league game. So lots like spurs haven't really been able to use those squad players and that's put more burden on the first team players which has probably diminished their performance levels and I just kind of feel like in hindsight, while I absolutely support the strategy of buying all these teenagers and I think that it's a great investment for the club and they will turn out to be really good, I kind of feel now like it's maybe not what they needed right now. I feel like what they really needed, given everything, was players who were kind of experienced and robust enough to come and play a lot of league minutes. Because otherwise it feels like the balance between what they're asking their first team players to do isn't quite right.
- [30:17]
Ayo Akimwalere
The word patience is interesting for me because I wonder if that's a word you can really offer spurs fans right now or just basically I feel like spurs fans are always being asked to have patience. We're talking about this rebuild, we're talking about how these young players might pan out in, in four years time. I mean, look, Jack, did they have that time for a. For patience and rebuild? Because, you know, there's a new stadium there, shiny and new. It's ready to be used, it's ready to have international football. It's ready to have great players playing. It's ready to be the great stadia was built for. Is there enough time for this project, this rebuild to not show fruition very quickly?
- [30:56]
Advertiser
Well, that's good question. So I think there's basically three. There's kind of three stakeholders, for want of a better word here. There's the players, the fans and the club. My impression at the moment is that the players are pro Posecoglou, they like him, they're. They're loyal to him. They enjoy his style of play and his way of working. And you know, that often, you know, often we. Towards the end of Mourinho or Conte or even Pochettino, that was not the case. So that suggests the players are willing to stick with this. The fans. I mean, I know we saw a lot of antagonism from the fans at Bournemouth. I actually, I've been struck this week that the fans are probably more on board than you might think with Postecoglou. And they're loyal and supportive, a lot of them. And you do see a lot of like anti ange voices on social media. But I think at the ground there's still a fair bit of support, obviously less than there was last year. The big question really, really is how patient is the club at the moment. I don't think that Postecoglou is under any immediate threat. I don't think they want to make a change. But if, you know, if results Continue to be bad, then that's going to be. That really is the huge question, isn't it? It's does, does Daniel Levy have the patience to stick with this or does he. Are results going to be so bad that he feels like he has to make a change and you know, only time will tell really on that question. Although I don't think that fans would have much confidence if they were to make a change that he would be replaced with anyone better.
- [32:23]
Charlie Eccleshare
I think IO that is the sort of the essence of this for any team that are in a rebuild is that to balance the kind of long term objectives with the short term ones, which are which the realities of that are that if you lose a few games in a row at any given point, it's a big deal for, for a club of spurs this size. And it's really tricky because you want to have. You want to be able to zoom out and see the bigger picture, but you also need to keep winning or winning enough in the immediate term. So it is tricky and sort of how you navigate those two things. Do you go for short term gains or do you constantly see the big picture knowing that every setback is going to be poured over and your future is going to be questioned? But I do agree with Jack that I think a lot of fans have reached are at a point where they're like, you can both think that things aren't great and that there are big issues without that necessarily meaning you think we need to change the manager because the manager has been changed so many times and it hasn't always, you know, led to much. And I think at least there is, you know, personal affection and admiration for Ange and at least, you know, people can see what he's trying to do. That I think means people are less sort of feeling less trigger happy in that way than with previous managers.
- [33:39]
Ayo Akimwalere
The question of whether or not to stick with Ange or not, you know, does this really come down to what spurs really want to do in the long term? Are they a team that wants a challenge for the title down the line? Are they a team that wants to operate as a cup side? You know, we talk about the squad and whether or not, you know, potentially Europe, European football's hindered it moving forward. But spurs have also been in European football before. You know, what are they learning from when they've been in European football to where they're at right now? We've seen the likes of Mourinho, we've seen the likes of Antonio Conte not working in the in recent past. Charlie, do we get a sense of what Daniel Levy and the, the upper echelons of the club want to do with Spurs?
- [34:23]
Charlie Eccleshare
Yeah, I mean, it's a fair question to ask. And you look at who they played on Sunday and who they were beaten by. Chelsea. Chelsea have spent an absolute fortune in building that team, you know, over the last two plus years. And really that's kind of what you need to do if you want to get to a position where you want to challenge because your squad needs to be so good, it needs to be so deep. You look how much Man City spend on kind of fringe squad. That's kind of the reality of it. So I, I think it, it will reach a really interesting inflection point because. Yeah, what do they do when at the end of the season, say, you know, when the reality is they'll probably still be in that sort of, you know, fifth around their kind of mix for the Champions League places. Do they really push on? Do they really invest or do they keep doing roughly what they're doing, which is sort of bobbing along, occupying that kind of space in the league? We've never really, you know, for all the good things that Enoch have done for spurs, you know, in taking them from, you know, basically mid table to being part of the big six, but we haven't seen them really kick on from there. And there were plenty of times under Pochettino and obviously the stadium build was a big factor there where, you know, everyone at the club, it felt like they were so close and I guess they would say, well, yeah, but we appointed Mourinho. That was our way of trying to do that. But, you know, and obviously that didn't work out, but you just need to invest so much in the playing side. And yes, they've invested a lot in the playing side, But Chelsea spent 1.2 billion on that, on that squad, you know, and like that's sort of the reality of where the Premier League is right now.
- [35:58]
Advertiser
Yeah, I mean, I think that they are, I mean clearly they are not set up to win the league. You know, if you look at wage bill spend, spurs are probably, I think they, from the last set of numbers we have, they were fifth, I think. But I would, I wouldn't be surprised if they come out of sixth where we get last season's number or, sorry, this season's numbers. I think that they, you know, that what they're competing with the teams who can spend so much more than them that I almost think that from spurs perspective, they need, they need to do things a bit differently if they're going to overachieve. You need the kind of X factor that comes from having a very distinctive style of play, for example, because you're not going to just, you're not going to be able to out punch your rivals with simply marginal gains. That's why I think it makes sense for a team whose wage bill is generally around fifth or sixth, but who wants to overachieve and come in the top four. It makes sense to do things a bit differently. And that's why I think if they got rid of Postecoglou and went for a more conventional manager, I wouldn't really have any confidence that that would be a strategy that would work either. And if they sacked him, I think, I mean, right now it feels to me like the only. Like the strategy at the club is basically to have Postecoglou as manager and if they sacked him, then they wouldn't have a manager and they wouldn't have a strategy and they wouldn't have an identity. So I think unless they can bring forth a convincing strategy alternative to Postecogli being manager, I think it makes sense to stick with him.
- [37:30]
Charlie Eccleshare
You could argue, just coming on what Jack was saying there about having an X factor, something different. I mean, maybe that point of differentiation will be all these great youngsters that they have and in two or three years time these players will have developed into, you know, properly elite players. And we'll be saying, you know, oh, they, they really, they were smart there because, you know, they can't go and spend 100 plus million or they won't go and spend 100 plus million on established players. What they've done is brought in players for say 30, like Archie Gray Bergval, and develop them into superstars, maybe, you know, but I appreciate that's not really going to make people feel better in the short term.
- [38:03]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah. In terms of future as well. Jack, we've spoken on the podcast about potential investment in spurs, the potential that the club are open to investment. Any updates on that situation at all? Is it creating any sense of uncertainty around the future of the club?
- [38:19]
Advertiser
Well, so Tottenham have been very open that they are looking for external investment this year. I believe this is the plan would be more for this to be kind of selling a stake in the club rather than selling the whole club. There's been no official update on this since, so we're waiting to see what exactly happens, whether a stake is sold to an investor who would come on board and Tottenham have said that they need this if they're going to really compete. And I suppose you can easily understand why. For a lot of fans though, it leaves a sense that they're kind of some people, some fans are not really sure where exactly the club is heading maybe until this is resolved.
- [38:58]
Ayo Akimwalere
Okay, fair enough. Next match is Rangers away. Ange's old rivals from his Celtic days. It's a tough match to follow after Chelsea. A lot of passion for sure. I would say a perfect chance to respond. But you know, Charlie, it's not going to be easy.
- [39:14]
Charlie Eccleshare
No, I mean, it's going to be a really pretty fiery atmosphere, I would have thought. It's just so relentless, the schedule. I think, you know, every team kind of wishes they had a spare week and they just. They're not there at the moment. Yeah, I mean, it's a big test because like I said, their away form has been really bad in the league anyway. You know, they've really struggled and they've struggled once things have started to get away from them. So it would be big for them if they could come through this, you know, and then they've got another away game a few days later. I mean, I guess it's good. It's not like loads of travel, but the fact that they're playing Rangers will mean it's. It's got far more needle to it potentially than it would if they were playing a team from another country.
- [39:53]
Ayo Akimwalere
Yeah, Jack, you've got Rangers away, Southampton away, and then obviously you've got a League cup quarterfinal with Manchester United and then it's Liverpool at home and then Nottingham Forest away and then Wolves again. I mean, it is relentless over this period.
- [40:07]
Advertiser
Yeah, strangely, I kind of feel like the Liverpool game is almost the least of their worries at this point. Like, I don't. I don't even think the Rangers. The Rangers game tomorrow night, which I'm going to, is especially important. But I think Saints, they have to beat Saints and they have to beat Manchester United. I think those are the two most important ones. If they can be. If they can win those two games, they can afford to not. They can afford to lose to Liverpool. I'm actually already a bit worried about the Forest game just because the way that Forest play, which is, you know, sitting and then counter attack with pace, is probably perfectly geared to exploit the holes in postecoglou system. But yeah, for me so much is going to be defined by Southampton and Manchester United.
- [40:44]
Ayo Akimwalere
Okay, fantastic gents. Thank you for the spurs therapy as always, Jack, Charlie, and also thank you guys for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.
- [40:53]
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