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- [00:00]
Raj Panjabi
Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.
- [00:02]
Noah Michaelson
And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.
- [00:05]
Raj Panjabi
And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
- [00:12]
Noah Michaelson
Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.
- [00:20]
Raj Panjabi
And we're talking like legit credible experts.
- [00:22]
Noah Michaelson
Doctors, PhDs all around superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Wrong? Wherever you get your podcast with an.
- [00:31]
Samantha Shea
Hour before boarding, there's only one place to go, the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. There you can recharge before the big adventure or enjoy a locally inspired dish. You could recline in a comfy chair to catch up on your favorite show or order a craft cocktail at the bar. Whatever you're in the mood for, find the detail that moves you with curated touches at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club Chase. Make more of what's yours. Learn more@chase.com SapphireReserve cards issued by JPMorgan.
- [00:59]
Ayo Akimolere
Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval. We're shipping Mother's Day gifts with a rapid fire round of questions. Ready?
- [01:05]
Phil Hay
Yes. My gift. Can you pack it?
- [01:06]
Ayo Akimolere
Yep. Ship it? Yes.
- [01:08]
Phil Hay
Guarantee it?
- [01:09]
Ayo Akimolere
Of course.
- [01:10]
Phil Hay
Oh, send gift baskets for sure. Protect electronics. Dog proof it. Return it if they hate it.
- [01:15]
Ayo Akimolere
Yes, no and yeah.
- [01:17]
Phil Hay
Are you the UPS store?
- [01:19]
Sam Lee
Hey, we have a winner.
- [01:21]
Phil Hay
Visit the upstore.com guaranty for full details. Most locations are independently owned. Products, services, prices and hours of operation may vary. See center for details. The UPS Store Visit US Store today.
- [01:34]
Raj Panjabi
Hi, it's Samantha Shea from Wirecutter, the product recommendation service from the New York Times. We all know those people who are simply impossible to shop for. At Wirecutter, we have a huge collection of gift guides to help you find the perfect present. We test everything we recommend, from an ice cream subscription to a back massager to a trio of succulents. We believe there's a perfect gift for everyone and Wirecutter can help you find it. Check out all our Gift guides@nytimes.com.
- [02:05]
Ayo Akimolere
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [02:12]
Unknown
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimolere. Manchester City have had a disappointing season compared to their usually high standards unfolds.
- [02:21]
Ayo Akimolere
The danger to Manchester City is on the counter attack when the front three the dangers and here they are in right in the side a little Celebration from Amarim and Maxi Miliano Araujo makes it 2:1 to Sporting Lisbon in the blink of an eye.
- [02:40]
Unknown
But the summer window offers Pep Guardiola the chance to rebuild. So which players are they targeting and will it be enough for them to be Premier League contenders once again? Right, with us today, we have the Athletics, Manchester City correspondent Sam Lee, and we've also got Phil Hay as well. Right, Sam, we'll get into the summer window super shortly, but, you know, this, I guess, is a bit of a rear build. And City have been been at it, really, if you think about it, since January. Let's not forget they spent around £183 million on new additions. I mean, did they need them, considering that actually there's some youth prospects popping through and actually they had an okay team at that moment.
- [03:23]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, I mean, on paper they had an okay team, but in reality, it wasn't working, was it? That's. We did so many podcasts around December, January time just on how and how badly they were doing. It became obvious they needed a rebuild. And look, City, I think at the start of December, they didn't plan to bring in so many players in January. They just wanted a box to box midfielder. But then things kept getting worse on the pitch, performances, injuries. And they're like, okay, we need to do something now. We need to move, move the budgets around, spend some money in January. But again, in terms of, like, did they need. Did they need that? Yeah, they did. But did they get it? Not really. Like, they. They brought in two center backs. The ages have obviously changed since, but basically Vito Hayes was like 18, 19, got him from Brazil. He hasn't started a Premier League game and the plan was never for him to do that, so they still bought him for the future. Kusanov, who played kind of a bit at the start, obviously, memorably against Chelsea, really terrible debut, but very solid since then. But since, you know, the last five weeks when they've. They've got back to winning ways, he's not played at all. Nico Gonzalez was like the great Rodgy replacement hope. Not played at all, really. And I mean, he's played more than Kusnov in these last five weeks, but he's not been a staple of it at all. And then there's Mahmouche, who has added a bit for sure. But it's like, yeah, they did need to start that rebuild then. They needed new blood, they needed new energy. But it's not like they filled the team with four players who were like, right, you two are starting, you're starting there, you're starting there. They've kind of been apart from Marmus have kind of been peripheral really but that's because as much as they needed something in January, they were still not panicking. They were still kind of thinking long term. You know, Kusanov is not for now, Hais is not for now and even Nico Gonzalez it turns out is not for now. So yeah, they definitely needed something but it's not like they, they got exactly what they needed all at once because this road to recovery recently has been all about the older players who everyone wants to get rid of.
- [05:15]
Unknown
Yeah, that's the one, Phil. And I mean look, Sam's right. Mamouch really is probably the most eye catching out of all those signings, just I think simply because we haven't seen probably enough of them. What do you make of the. The new additions in January that that came to City? I don't know if you could say they've added more to this team but Mamou for sure attacking Wise has offered them something a little different.
- [05:36]
Sam Lee
Yeah, I, I was sat with Tom Harris at the FA cup semi final against Nottingham Forest at Wembley. I was sat with Sam as well but having to be on a desk with Tom and know Tom knows his onions and at one point he, he said to me, you know, if, if City were signing Mamus now as opposed to in January, he'd probably cost twice as much. And perhaps that's a slight exaggeration but I think probably it's pretty fair assessment as well. He is the makings of a really good catch and I feel like he's, he's settled in well. It gives him a slightly different feel up front I would say as well in comparison to Haaland which isn't to say that the better off with him up front rather than Haaland but it's pretty obvious to me anyway that he's a bit more of a creative mind and certainly not just a goal scorer. Kusanov, time will tell. He needs to climatize fully and I don't see them losing out actually on the money they spent on him. What Was it like 30 to 35 million? I think he's definitely got something about him and is a pep type of center back. Victor Ice seen very little of so hard to judge. Nico Gonzalez I have watched previously and I do like and I think he will be money well spent. But Sam is probably right, you know, it hasn't addressed everything and hasn't fixed them to a huge degree. But without going the whole hog, I think what January did do was start to address the various areas of the squad that needed work. They got a bit caught out, did City. The squad almost went over the hill more quickly or more suddenly than Guardiola anticipated, that's safe to say. But I suppose what they have done is they've used January to avoid the need to do a ridiculously vast amount of recruitment and spending in the summer. They're still going to have to spend and they're still going to have to recruit, but they've almost split the workload between January and the closed season that's coming up, which might almost mean that some of the outlay is, you know, falls between different accounting periods. And without wanting to bore people about that, you know, that is kind of important too.
- [07:31]
Unknown
Yeah, for sure. We'll go into who potentially might be coming in later on in the pod. But Sam, I'm just looking after that defeat to Forest in the league in March, I think March 8th. City have gone unbeaten in the league and comfortably look like they've turned around their fortunes. And we'll talk about the importance of potential Champions League football next season. But not just the signings necessarily, we've just mentioned. But what else has Guardiola tweaked? What. What else has he added to his team that we probably haven't seen before? Because this isn't the same man City that we used to, as we know.
- [08:03]
Ayo Akimolere
Not in some respects, not in a lot of respects. But that's the thing about the. The impact of the. The January signings. There was that kind of middle period from like start of February until that international break. So after that Forest game you mentioned, it is part of the unbeaten run. But they drew two, all with Brighton, and it wasn't a good performance, really. Brighton were really good. They had a massive chance to win it at the end. And to kind of contrast it to the start of February time was like. Or even the end of February, they lost against Liverpool, 2 nil. And like myself watching it and like a lot of City fans that I speak to and talk to and whatever, well, it wasn't that bad, like I thought, you know, I said at the time, that wasn't in the top 10 defeats that City had had, which is mad. Normally City wouldn't have 10 defeats, let alone like a hierarchy of like, how bad they were. Losing only 2 nil to Liverpool was like, okay, this is all right. Then they beat spurs and it was like, this is a bit more stable. And that was then, okay, Kushnov was playing, looking quite good. Nico Gonzalez was playing, he played really well in a 4 nil win against Newcastle. And it was like, okay, there's Green shoots a recovery here. Mahmou should come in. He'd scored three against Newcastle and it was okay. This is okay. Then it kind of started to tail off a bit with Forest and the Brighton game thing. Actually, I'm not really sure where they are. So then what changed really was the Bournemouth away game in the FA cup, which was after the international break. And Guardiola and the staff looked at the game against Bournemouth in November when City had lost, which was the set, the first Premier League defeat, the second defeat of the. The bad run. And he just, he said, look, in terms of jewels, in terms of all this stuff, we just weren't at it. We cannot play like this. And that was kind of his team talk for the game in March. But the players he chose to do it, like I alluded to before, were all the players who've had like the hardest seasons. De Bruyne, Kovacic, Gundogan, Bernardo played them all. And then I know not long after that, a week after that, they played the Manchester Derby, played Foden in there as well, and Foden struggled. It's just basically it's everybody in the middle of the pitch. And as the weeks have gone on, it's been easier to kind of put like a formation to it, like explain it. It's basically a 4, 2, 2, 2. So to answer the question of why things have been better recently and to kind of show that it's not so much the January, February sign in. So it did add a bit of, you know, green shoot stability for a while. This has basically been done without them. Nico Gonzalez hasn't played that much. It's been Gundan and Kovic, the most maligned players from that December period where they were leaving so much space they couldn't cover the ground, counterattacks against them so easily. Bernardo running to the ground. Guardiola described him as like empty, like physically and mentally empty in that period. De Bruyne has obviously got to the stage where he's not been playing well. The club have decided not to renew his contract. And yet they're all having this kind of resurgence because they're not leaving spaces in the middle because there's so many of them in that area. Phil, you would have seen it at Wembley. By the time they played Forest the other week, it was just like, okay, this is like a perfectly formed 4, 2, 2, 2. So at the Bottom of it, you've got very much so Kovacic and Bernardo, who were just managing that game very, very well ahead of them. It was like Grealish and Rico Lewis, who would in theory be the strikers, but they weren't even false nines. They weren't starting high up and dropping off. They were just in that kind of midfield area. But this is where it's kind of interesting to describe because they had two wingers, they had Marmus and Savino, but they were playing inside because the fullbacks were high and wide. So you got like three stacks of two playing through the middle. And the wingers are kind of the strikers because they make runs behind, but the Forest defenders have nobody to mark. You could call Grealish, Enrique Lewis, false nines, but they weren't. They were more like they were like deeper than the wingers were, but they weren't so deep that they were where Kovacic and Bernardo were. And it's just this kind of beautiful harmony of having so many players in the middle that Pep has always wanted. So, again, to go back about 18 minutes ago, when I started this answer.
- [11:49]
Unknown
I was wondering where you were going with this.
- [11:51]
Ayo Akimolere
I said, in some respects it's completely different, but in other respects it's not. Because what they've rediscovered is the stability that City have always had and the control of matches is back. And let's be honest, a lot of these games in this winning run, they've not been classics. The Everton game was terrible. The Wolves came on Friday.
- [12:09]
Unknown
Wolves could have scored several times in that match.
- [12:11]
Ayo Akimolere
They could have, yeah. And like not like the Everton game and, and the Wolves game, just a lot of like basic kind of mistakes. It just wasn't good football. But it was solid, it was competent. Because even there were periods in like November when City would play well, but they just get overrun in the second half now. They played really well against Sporting Lisbon lost 41 really well against Brighton in the first half, got overrun completely. They just couldn't keep it up. So now they've kind of got that stability back and it's thanks to this latest kind of Guardiola formation of high fullbacks, everyone in the middle and basically the old guys, the old guys that people thought were finished and need to move on. And yeah, that's why it's not all about the January signings. It's not about the money spent, it's about loads of other things. And look, it's a stopgap. But just to finish off this massively long answer, he's Found a way to win. There's no Rodri, obviously. Haaland's been out. He got injured in that Bournemouth game in the Cup. Stones has been out for ages. Akanzi is just coming back now. AK's still out, loads of center backs, most important midfielder, most important striker. Foden's been on the periphery as well. He's found that way to win that. Everybody was kind of saying you should come up with a solution. Come up with a solution way back in the winter. Maybe it's taken too long, but this is what he's come up with now. And, yeah, they might finish second. They might win the FA Cup. Yeah.
- [13:28]
Unknown
Where do you see it, Phil?
- [13:30]
Sam Lee
Well, that game at Wembley was almost like the perfect example of what City have become this season, because certainly in the first half, and I think Forest contributed to. To this by freezing slight and really, really struggling to get into the game. But it felt as if you could have been there watching City from just about any of Guardiola's seasons. They were so comfortable and so on top and had it really well managed. And there was something really pragmatic about the way they were playing, but they were matching that up with some proper creativity in the middle, and they looked like they had that game on toast. But then in the second half, it got ragged and it got a bit out of hand and Forest hit the bar, the post two or three times and it was. It became the sort of game that could easily have run away from them. And that seems to have been how it's been for Cardiola for a lot of. A lot of this season. So, yeah, like, tactically he's done quite well actually, to pull it round and to get them to this point where it looks like they will finish top five. But I don't know. I mean, I sort of feel like the biggest thing he'll learn from the season. This sounds really strange to say because I've always thought of it as a big Guardiola. Strength is probably reading the room and knowing when a player is given as much as. As they can, they can give. And, you know, going back historically with Guardiola, he's usually pretty ruthless when it comes to replacing big names, either for reasons that he can't manage them anymore or that he just doesn't feel like they're contributing in the way that. That he needs them to. And he doesn't often get blindsided, you know, but if you take De Bruyne and Kyle Walker as two examples of, you know, massive personalities, massive influences under Guardiola, they have been allowed to go on a little bit too long. It kind of feels to me like De Bruyne in particular still has a bit of lead in his pencil. But I do understand why City are saying enough's enough. I don't think squad size has particularly been the issue. I think injuries have been a problem and it's. It's very hard to moan about squad size when you've got in recent memory the treble year, when you know the resources that Guardiola had and he built what so well for him. I just think his faith in certain individuals is probably extended a little bit too far. But in fairness, that's quite an easy mistake to make, I reckon, when you rate some of these players as highly as he must do.
- [15:38]
Unknown
Yeah. One thing where he has had faith in to a certain degree over the years is bringing young players through. Some in particular. Phil Foden, we can say, Lewis, we can say. But Nico Riley at the moment, Sam is really interesting for me. And James McAtee as well have stood out most recently. O'Reilly is fascinating because of the goals he's scoring now. A couple of weeks ago, I was just doing a little deep dive on YouTube and I'm trying to watch him in the you system and see where he's been playing. So he's primarily playing me as a fullback, but this is a kid that was also played as a number nine. He's a kid that's played as a number eight and as a number ten. This is a really interesting progression for a youth player. But then actually you. You look at Rico Lewis, you look at Oscar Bob, you look at what they're able to do around the field. This is yet another product of an interesting youth system that that City seem to be producing.
- [16:26]
Ayo Akimolere
The City Academy produces great players and they. They know the system. So in terms of like Vito Hayes coming in, it's like I never expected him to play because of his, like, his physical stature, but it's like. And he's not played either Jemaj Simpson, Poussay, but he was a center back. He played earlier in the season, but it was like, well, if it was between those two, you'd have to go with Jemaah because he knows how City want to play because it's what the academy do. And like, the coaching is all geared towards not just the tactics of the first team, but, you know, receiving the ball in the same way that you need to do in the first team. Using the ball in spaces, appreciating the spaces in the Same way. It's all geared towards that. But, yeah, with O'Reilly, he's an attacking midfielder. When I went to Everton recently, I was sat next to Paddy Boyland, our Everton guy, and he was like, oh. I was, how's he been? I was like, he's good. I was like, he doesn't really look out of place. Even though he's playing out of position, he goes, why is he a center back? I was like, no, mate, he's an attacking midfielder, but he's 6 foot 4. But he's like. He doesn't. He doesn't play like it. He plays very, very nimble. You know, the. He plays like Rico Lewis, basically. Small spaces, pocket of space, get the ball, turn. He's very creative as well in that sense. He's more creative than Rico Lewis, but in terms of how he uses the ball, he's very similar. Guardiola wants him to play as a holding midfielder because he's tall. He's like. Well, you know, as much as Guardiola is kind of an innovator, he's still kind of classic in that sense. It's like your toolmate start winning headers back there.
- [17:42]
Unknown
You could be there.
- [17:43]
Sam Lee
He looks like, because of his height, he should be massively awkward. That was my impression of him at Wembley, you know, that he should be kind of out of water. But actually, he's got loads of finesse and a really good balance, I have to say, as well. I mean, on the day in particular, Rico Lewis in those pockets looked fab, you know, nightmare to pick up, and really did pull the strings. And as I said previously, I don't know how much of that was down to. To Forest not waking up for a good 45 minutes, but there's some. There's some rare old talent there. There definitely is.
- [18:11]
Ayo Akimolere
But it's interesting because what you were saying before Phil, about Pep maybe being loyal to his players for too long, and Ayo, your question about the youngsters, it goes hand in hand because I think one of the biggest frustration of City fans and probably some of the players themselves throughout the season has been, you know, that period in December when there were so many injuries, the performances were so bleak. Like, for what it's worth, I went into a game going, they're going to lose this. There's no way they can win this game. And every week it was Gundogan, Kovacic, Bernardo, and it's like, they can't play again. It's like, well, they can't play against Juventus on Wednesday because they've got United on Sunday and then if they play then who's going to be fit and fresh? And they paid all the time. And the results and the performances kind of just got worse and worse. And that was the period when people were like, well, why not play McAtee? Especially because all pre season Guardiola was like, he's good enough to stay with us, he can play with us. And you think, okay, going into the season thing, he's probably not going to. I was thinking he's probably not going to play that much unless like everyone gets injured and then everyone did get injured or was playing really badly and he still didn't play and he still really hasn't. In the last few weeks he's come in a bit more, but I can't imagine there'll be enough to keep him in the summer because his contract's only got a year left on it. And then there's O'Reilly. But again, as you know, as recently as December, nobody would have said, I'll bring in O'Reilly at left back. And to be fair, he didn't really need it because Gradio has been one of the better players this season. Still makes mistakes, but it's been better. He's been the most. One of the most consistently reliable players, is always available, not needed a left back. But it's something Guardiola has talked about a couple of times and recently he's. He just brings it up off his own back. He'd be like, look, maybe I could have played them earlier in the season. I thought it was probably too unstable an environment to throw them into because the team was really that much of a mess. I suppose if you throw like a 19 year old into it, probably thought they could ruin them just as much as they could kind of turn things around, which I do, I do get. But he's always saying it now because maybe I could have done it sooner, but I didn't feel like now was the time. But at this moment in time, everything's kind of come together. Whereas, you know, O'Reilly can be the left back because he just stays high and wide on the left. And he looks very solid defensively as well. But when he's in the final third, you can tell he's an attacking midfielder. I talked about the Everton game, that run he made. If you look at the goal that he scored against Everton, Manchester City, far more of a threat now and they made the breakthrough and guess who's made the breakthrough? It's Nico O'Reilly. Look at his run and Mahmouch's run. Mahmouch is the forward. He made a better run than Mahmou. That's why he got the goal. Mahmushkov was kind of surprised when the ball went behind him that O'Reilly was there, so that's what he can bring as well. And, yeah, McAtee, again, you know, he's joined the City Academy when he was 10. I think it's because. I think it's because the United Academy let go of his older brother. He's been brought up in that Academy for over 10 years. This is the thing. These kids, they know the game plan. They've got the technical ability to do it. Could Guardiola have done it sooner? It's definitely a big debate, Phil.
- [20:59]
Unknown
I'm just thinking about all this stuff when we're talking about, could Guardiola have done it sooner? I mean, this is, by his standards, an unprecedented season for Guardiola. And, you know, I mean, sometimes you just look at it and think he's only human. And perhaps just for the stability of it all, you just stick with your. Your usual lieutenants and hope that at some point it all fits together.
- [21:20]
Sam Lee
Yeah, there are definitely times when you have to batten down the hatches, and I've seen it before as well, when the, I guess the virtue of using younger players or academy products starts to become questionable, when everybody feels under so much pressure and you start to worry that you throw them into an environment that is going to be detrimental rather than one that's going to let them thrive. I mean, in normal circumstances and in the average season at City, particularly with Guardiola as coach, it's absolutely perfect for any talented kid coming through to cut the teeth because you've got so many players you can learn from roundabout. He has a good enough depth, resources, but he doesn't have to overuse you if he doesn't want to. But this season's been slightly different. I mean, Sam touched on. On the injuries, but also the form has meant that it's been a bit of a struggle for certain players to kind of keep the place in the team. So what do you do with these? Like, to what extent do you. Do you trust them? And we've seen in the past a lot of criticism initially or a lot of questions asked about the way in which Guardiola used Phil Foden when he was younger. I think given two different clubs or different coaches, Foden would have played a lot more, a lot sooner than he did under Guardiola. But when he kind of came of age and started to be a mainstay in the team. You suddenly felt like Guardiola had nailed it and called it perfectly and it timed it right with him. And I don't doubt it. Don't doubt it. To some extent that will be true of some of the others who are, who are coming through. I'm not convinced that having used them earlier in the season would have made any difference to the way this season is going to end for them. Ultimately. I don't think it would have turned them into serious competitors. With Liverpool at the top of the top of the Premier League, I don't think it would have gotten much further in the Champions League. They've just been substandard by their own standards this season. But it is a kind of good tier of kids to, to work with and to build on to some extent and this season may actually be quite good for them in the long run.
- [23:13]
Unknown
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Accumulere. Well, Sam, look, you've written a piece which is essentially breaking down what the club are planning for the summer window. How many incomings can we really expect? We've spoken about obviously what's happened in January and also from your opinion which which positions look most likely to be the ones where Manchester City spend money on.
- [23:40]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, I think four or five signings is the plan and then I think it's looking like still needs to kind of be finalized. From my point of view I'm sure they know left back seems to be. Seems to be one just in the way that they were looking at Andrea Cambiasso in January but couldn't get it done it seems, you know that's that's one that could easily be revived but then ones we know definitely a bit more of Gibbs White, Morgan Gibbs White. I know David Ornstein's mentioned that previously. That's that's one that I don't know. I'd be. I'd be surprised if it didn't happen at this point and Florian vertically in the article I did last week it was. That was just more like you know there's interesting flowing verts but I've had more conversations since then and I don't know I'd say it's got to the point now where maybe the same as gives White. You know it's got to a stage now where if he, if he didn't go to City which is obviously still possible because until deals are done they can go anywhere. If he didn't go to City now I'd probably think, oh, okay. So many change there. Because from what I understand at the moment, City are in a quite a good position there. So that you can obviously see with those.
- [24:38]
Unknown
Or Gibbs White for vert.
- [24:39]
Ayo Akimolere
Sorry. Gibbs White is kind of interesting.
- [24:41]
Sam Lee
What are they talking money wise then, Sam? I mean, in terms of fees for these two, what would we be looking at?
- [24:48]
Ayo Akimolere
It's going to be a lot. I don't. I don't know. It depends how much forest, I suppose. How much? Not in this sense, because they'd want to keep Gibbs White, but how much? It would do them a favor financially. You know, if there's a kind of a sell to buy element we saw with Villa when they made the Champions League, they start to sell players going into it, which is, you know, a whole other strand of the PSR debate. But if, you know, City are normally a club that like to work with leverage, but also there's a kind of homegrown demand which we'll get into in terms of their summer plans and then verts again. It's not like City are in a really super strong position because, you know, for a start, if Bayern Munich want you, Real Madrid want you, it's not like you have to go cap in hand to City, is it? You can say, okay, well, these guys want me as well, so can you give me a good wage, please? But also, I think there's the understanding that it could leave in a year's time anyway. So they're. There might be a bit of middle ground to find there, but those two are obviously going to be large fees. But the thing is, you know, we talked about the money spent in January over the last few years. City haven't spent huge amounts by any means. Part of the reason why they need this rebuild now is because maybe they didn't do it before. And I get why, you know, after the trouble, after the treble win, Mahrez goes and Gundogan goes. Carl Walker could have gone. Bernardo could have gone. And he was like, can't lose you two as well, can you please stay? Obviously, it's got to the period now where you think, well, maybe it would have been best to wave by at the time, but they didn't. They helped stay together. They won another trophy. And then even last summer, Alvarez goes, they bring in Savinho, they get Gundogan back on the free, and they go, okay, that'll be. That'll be fine. And obviously it's not been fine, but they've not spent that money. And at the same time, that They've not been spending huge sums like they might do this summer, or they kind of did in. In January. They've been selling the young kids, as everybody knows, you know, Palmer going not, but not just Palmer, like Shay Charles, people like that Academy kids that we've kind of talked about there. Why, you know, why they're so good. They're then appealing to other teams who go, okay, well, that's a. It's, you know, like the old United Academy graduates. When Ferguson was there, it was like, that's a stamp of approval, isn't it? Like, okay, he played, he played for United. He must be good. That's what it's like at City. And also you've got Joe Shields who went to Southampton and now at Chelsea, and you've got Jason Wilcox who went to Southampton. Now Man United. Okay, Sancho's on the market. Toten Darabayo is on the market. Anybody who's still at City, now that they get Liam De Lapp, who are his two biggest options in the summer? As far as I know, it's still Chelsea and United. Why? Because the people who there were his, like, academy directors and now other clubs. So City have been able to make loads of money. I think it's about 150 million over the last few years off selling young players and Alvarez for, you know, upwards of 80 million at a time when they'd not been spending so much so that, you know, are they going to spend loads of money this summer? Yeah, possibly. And in terms of Phil saying earlier on different accounting periods was after January 30th, you can you start a new accounting period. The money they got from Alvarez and I think Cancelo last summer because he finally left. That's. That's in kind of the current accounting periods. That's like 100 million. That's in the same accounting period as the 183 million from the guys in January. So then you roll that over into the next one, it all kind of balances out because of City's kind of their own PSR headroom is compared to most clubs, absolutely massive. And it's because they haven't spent an awful lot as much as people would think they have, and they've been bringing in quite a lot.
- [28:05]
Sam Lee
It's the tricky thing with the rebuild is that if you want to increase your competitive level in the really short term, that is, if City want to be considerably better next season, then while they're always going to buy future prospects and invest in the. The sort of medium to longer term, because that's what what City do and what they've, they've always done. You do need to try and add a couple of big hitters if you can, and amongst them. But the problem these days is that big hitters are so expensive. So once you go after somebody like Gibbs White who's at another Premier League club and who anybody would take, you're talking really big money. And likewise with, with Wirtz in Germany, I mean his stock is, is just about as high as you can get, particularly at a club in Germany that isn't Bayern Munich. I suppose that one of the one thing that might help and Sam would be better placed answer this than me, is that in losing de Bruyne they're going to lose a huge wage. I mean, I read one of your pieces last week which said he was on, on a wage that's in the region of £400,000 a week. Is that right?
- [29:07]
Unknown
Yeah, about 20 million a season or so, isn't it?
- [29:09]
Sam Lee
I mean, that's pretty big. Now don't get me wrong, that doesn't necessarily instantly help with transfer fees, but in a lot, you know, you can amortized transfer fees and spread them out over longer accounting periods and the length of a player's contract. So for the purposes of how it looks in the PSR calculations and everything else, there are ways and means of kind of cutting corners or not fiddling the books, but working the numbers to your favour. But with wages, wages have to be paid. And you would think that De Bruyne leaving opens up some pretty good avenues to employ highly paid players who won't expect as much and won't be paid as much, but can still be paid a hefty salary that will tempt them through the door.
- [29:50]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, yeah, this was part of the article last week. They want to trim the wage bill, actually. So, you know, people all of a sudden now City are doing okay again. It's 183 million in January and it's like, oh well, you know, people are already rolling their eyes if they spend. But let's say they spend 100 million each on Gibbs White and foreign inverts. Yes, that's fairly hefty, you'd have to say. But it's like it's all because of what we just described. Don't need to go into that again, you know, selling the young players, that kind of thing. But again, in terms of the business sense, they want to cut the wage bill this summer. So I think if you're a City fan hearing that, you're thinking, hold On a minute, we need this big rebuild. De Bruyne is going. How are you trying to save money? How are you trying to cut corners? But I think it's fairly easy to understand unless you're trying to buy Mbappe or Bellingham from like Real Madrid or like already at the very top, no player, even if they sign Wirtz and even if Wirtz could use the buying interest in the Real Madrid interest, no player is going to be asking for like 400 grand a week that De Bruyne is on. Like if Edison goes and they buy any goalkeeper, they can't get the same amount of money that Edison was on for having signed two, I think contract extensions in his, in his time at City as well as the initial one. They, they will be able to like cut that spend. I think in the last, in the last accounts they got their like turnover to wages ratio down from 59 to 58%. And you know, I think you want, I think ideally you'd want it to be around there, but a bit lower. That's obviously what City are kind of working towards. But I do think they can kind of satisfy everybody there, you know, with, with De Bruyne going and now maybe Edison, possibly Bernardo, but those kind of guys you can bring in more than suitable replacements and it's, it's just not going to cost the same. But obviously we should also say Haaland's just signed that massive contract, so they must. It's probably taken up some of that already. But yeah, that's certainly City's outlook. You know, it's not just a big massive of splurge in the summer and like we'll worry about it later. Which was basically what they were able to do 15 years ago before FFP came in. It was, okay, let's get all these big players in. Obviously now they have to be more sustainable, compliant and. Yeah, exactly. And obviously the wages is part of that and they. But they've already done the hard work on the transfer fees like we've already mentioned.
- [31:52]
Unknown
Yeah. Phil, very quickly on Gibbs way you talk about big hitters coming into this club and having to pay a fee for them. From what we've seen of this player, do you think this is a player under this system, the Guardiola plays that could actually step up to a player that could play very well in competitions like the Champions League, for instance, you know, because that's the kind of player that City should be looking at if they are to, for this, I guess, rebuild to be relatively successful.
- [32:19]
Sam Lee
I think he'd be a good fit. Yeah, I do. You know, you're never quite sure with City because it's such a extreme level of excellence, or has been over the years. And I have very fresh in my mind and the image of Calvin Phillips going there from Leeds United for, I think, 43 million, as it was a couple of seasons back, and thinking he should do okay there, he should do fine. He'd been very, very good at Leeds, better than very good at Leeds. He'd earned a move up the ladder. That was a huge opportunity for him, and I thought he would do okay. And what you realized was that once Phillips got into City, he just wasn't able to meet the standards that Guardiola was after. And I think beyond that, you realize that what Rodri in particular was doing in that midfield, in the area that Phillips would be wanted to deputize or to fill him in when Rodri wasn't there or take his place if he happened to be better than him, which he wasn't, it was exceptional. You know, Rodri was virtually the best of the best in that role in European football. And, you know, that is what you have to be to play on the Guardiola. It certainly was in that period where they were. They were going for the treble. So how well Gibbs White will adjust, or would adjust if he does go remains to be seen. But he's a really classy footballer and he's heading for the. The top bracket. And as far as his sort of personal circumstances go as well, because obviously Forest are not a mile away themselves from qualifying for the Champions League. But I do wonder how wedded he would be to them. You know, he's not from Nottingham. He doesn't support Forest. He's been on the books for three years, not an exceptionally long period of time, and he wasn't particularly shy in bailing out the Wolves when the opportunity came, which is not criticism of him, it's just a fact. So my feeling with him at 25, I often feel like he's younger than that, but he is 25 now and he won't want to miss the boat if a big offer drops. And let's be honest, you know, City's the sort of transfer that most players jump on when it comes around. And what about him says he'll be any different?
- [34:16]
Ayo Akimolere
It's really interesting with Gibbs White because I feel like the City fan base, as far as I can tell, are really split on it, if not, at least from the algorithm I've got on my Twitter feed, slightly more negative about it. I think people want rinders from, from AC Milan because obviously you talk about the fee as well for, for Premier League talent and it'd be cheaper and things like that, but I think people are a bit underwhelmed by Gibbs White. Possibly there's a lingering dislike of him because of that clash he had with Rodri a couple of seasons ago when Roger got sent off for like grabbing him around the throat and all things like that. But I, I remember seeing him play against City. I think it was like February last year and ever since, because I always see this like the, the transfer chiefs are Premier League teams. Like, you know, with Liverpool signed Jota, you think, have you just seen that? And go, we put him into what we've got and his talents is going to multiply. And I know Grealish isn't a good example now because of how it's went, but I remember watching back the 2020 Carabao cup final from. Well, from five years ago when Grealish played for Villa and you see him floating around the pitch with the ball. He said, I can see exactly why City wanted that. And I've been trying to look out for that more in recent years. And when I saw Gibbs White in this one game in particular last year, I just thought I could see him doing this at City and being better for it. So I think it'd be a good signing. But it is a really interesting one because, you know, he's, he's had a good season, but he's not had the kind of season where he's like a demand. It's not like you've got to go and get this kid. But I, I personally think what he's got fits into what City need and again with the homegrown element. Look, if City don't sell too many homegrown players, not going to have a problem. But basically because of the Champions League or UEFA rules, because it might be in the Europa League, but probably Champions League now, you do need to have a. At least eight players, eight homegrown players. And if you don't fill the eight spots you get, you get a spot cut off. So this year they had 23 players in their squad because they had six homegrown, so they didn't have the eight. So they cut two off and it's been fine. But if you start messing with that balance too much, it becomes difficult. But next year, Oscar Bob counters homegrown, so that's going to help. So they could, they could say, thought to get rid of one and they don't need to replace him because Bob's going to be there. But any more than that, they need to have. If they get rid of two, they need Bob and somebody else. If they get rid of three, they need Bob and two others. So it's, it's an interesting one in terms of who could go, especially because Guardiola is not thinking about having a bigger squad. He's talking about having more reliable players. Speaking about Grealish, John Stones, ake, who's homegrown, McAtee, like I said before, with his situation, they could, they could lose a few homegrown players and in that case, they'll need to bring in replacement for all of them apart from the one who's going to be Bob. So that's kind of where the Gibbs White thing comes in as well. And also great mates with Foden. So if there's anything, nothing. They're doing all they can at City to get Foden back to the Foden that we, we know that he is. And I'm not saying they'd be signing Gibbs White specifically because of that, but I'd say it'd probably be a happy little benefit to it as well. So if Gibbs White does come, there'd definitely be a few boxes he would tick there.
- [37:12]
Sam Lee
Vertz is a sexier player to sell, isn't he, to a fan base. I mean, there is, there is nobody out there who's going to look at Verts and think, okay, if you've got a, if you've got the sort of wealth of resources where you already have players like that, and you think, look, it's just an excess sign in that. And he, and he might be absolutely world class, but we just have a lot of quality in that position Anyway, then it doesn't, you know, it's not necessarily a good way to spend money, but you know, if you need someone there, and I think City do, Wirtz is not the sort of player anybody is going to complain about, you'd be absolutely delighted to get him through the door. And, and I think with De Bruyne going, City do need somebody who unlocks the door in the way that De Bruyne has for so long. It was one of his massive strengths, you know, was just the ability to pick passes and see passes that very few other players would. But alongside that, I do think that they would feel very positive benefit of Gibbs White energy. I think they find him an asset in the midfield and I'm interested to hear Sam say that they might well, do both, just because of the kind of extreme cost of it. But I, I can see why both would be good for them.
- [38:14]
Ayo Akimolere
And I think that's, you know, City fans, maybe somewhere under the, the apprehension that it would be Gibbs White instead of Verts. And like you, you've articulated quite well there. Vert is that player. Vert is the one. Okay. That's the superstar, that's the one. And then you see Gibbs. What is the alternative? But as far as I know, it's, you know, they're trying to get both. That's the kind of, the main area of operation they're trying to strengthen in the summer is in midfield. It would be those, those two, I think. So we'll, we'll see how that develops. But yeah, I'm excited by the idea of Gibbs White, if only just to see if my kind of hypothesis, I've put him in this team. But again, just another thing from, from the article, quickly, is, you know, Guardiola saying they need reliable players. They need players who can play every three days now, like Champions League tested players. When Grealish came, one of the things they had to adapt to was playing every three days. Because at Villa it's, you know, play Saturday, play Sunday and then he plays Saturday. It's a different demand. Jeremy Docu, even now, Guardiola says he has problems when he plays every three days with injuries and that kind of thing. That's. This is not the end of his second season. So Gibbs White there, he doesn't really have that. So when Phil said earlier, making the difference in the Champions League, quality wise. Yeah. But I still think if he does sign for City, that might be something that we have to look out for early on and maybe cut our cloth accordingly. He goes fitness wise. This is going to be a big adjustment for him. Even though, you know, he knows the league, he's English, he's got international colleagues, all this kind of stuff. So that's another interesting thing. You know, City do generally want players who are going to be fit, going to be reliable, you know, Gradiol and Rico Lewis and Haaland, until he got kind of his ankle landed on players who were just fit, you know, muscle wise, they need more of that because that's been the big undoing this season, obviously with the injuries.
- [39:53]
Unknown
Okay, super quickly, Sam. We've spoken about potential incomings and the thought of Florian Verts in the Premier League already is getting me excited. But, you know, what about outgoings? De Bruyne for sure. Bernardo Silva, that name keeps creeping up Edison, the keeper. And even you spoke about Nathan Ake as well. You know, almost a bit player now for City at the moment.
- [40:14]
Ayo Akimolere
Well, just because of his injury situation. Like this is the thing with, with Stones and Grealish and Ake. Nobody doubts their, their quality if they're available. Like Stones is one of the best center backs, like just everything that we've seen in England. So would you keep him for that? Yeah, but always, always injured. Unfortunately, Ake got fitness problems too, so in that sense, yeah, but you know, Ake would be one of the key guys if he were available. He's just, he just isn't. Edison, it feels like time to move on. Not because City have outgrowed him. It's like the old rip the band aid off thing after the treble or like last summer. It's like in hindsight, could you have got rid of Edison and started this rebuild soon? Yeah, maybe. But it's like he's so good and I feel like whoever they're going to get in is going to be a step down. You just got to do it a different way. A step down in terms of his distribution, but he wanted to go. Last summer, City said, okay, well, 50 million and Saudi Arabian teams, they don't generally pay high fees, they pay high wages, but they don't pay high fees and nobody was willing to pay it. But you know, they've had another year to kind of work on that is people. I think the family are ready for a move away from Manchester. I think ideally it'd go to Europe. If not, then Saudi's fine. So, yeah, that's going to be a big one. Bernardo Silva, personally, again, City fans don't just think, in large part think it's time to go, but they kind of really turned on him a bit. But I think Bernardo kind of, as we've seen recently, you put him in a team that is working, is stable, is functional and you don't have the problems with the fitness. You don't have to be chasing back 50 meters and being caught, looking slow because you're already in the right place. That's, that's why City have been so good. Nobody gets caught out and has to run back 50 meters, but once the system doesn't work, you're all doing it. I think, as we've seen at the end of the season, get the stability back. Bernardo's got plenty to offer. And like Kovacic, for example. Kovacic has been great recently. It's exactly the same thing. So all of a sudden you could look at the squad as we would have in December and go, I don't like the look of that. Don't like. Look at that. Don't like the look of that. He's not. But you look at it in the summer and go, actually, yeah, Bernardo, I could see that's fine. Gundogan is another one. Gundogan's been playing well recently and so is coveted. So you add in a couple of star names there and I think the midfield looks better than it would have done three or four months ago.
- [42:15]
Sam Lee
You've also got. And it's amazing I'm touching this. Yet you've got Rodri coming back. And I just think that Rodri, once he's fitting in the squad, changes the perception of every player around him. I, I like Kovacic, but I get the sense that he's probably more sure of himself and, And a bigger asset. When you also have Rodri in there and it's not when you got.
- [42:36]
Ayo Akimolere
Yeah, we interviewed him. He said, I prefer to have help next to me.
- [42:40]
Sam Lee
Yeah, essentially when you know you've got somebody like Rodri who is in there pulling the strings, working it all, doing, doing what he has to do, it's not purely on. I think that's been one of the. The big factors is it was always like likely to be for. For Guardiola, who is going to carry the can in that defensive midfield position in a way that's going to hold the team together and in the way that Rodri does, because nobody else can do it. And this was the point about Calvin Phillips previously, or I say nobody else can do it. Very, very few players in Europe can. Phillips wasn't up to. Even though he looked so good at Leeds, it's almost an impossibly high bar to hit. And I think that Rodri and Haaland coming back in fit for next season rather than this, because this season is almost done, really does alter that squad quite drastically. Rodri especially. And then if you start adding, you know, Gibbs, White, Wirtz and others, it starts to look like a really dangerous team again. And I think that's what Guardiola must be, must be hoping for because there is no way that Guardiola has signed up for another two years to just be an also run to the end of this contract, which I guess could be his last step at City. He'll want to go out with something much bigger than that.
- [43:45]
Ayo Akimolere
That.
- [43:45]
Unknown
How hard is it to find that balance field though, in terms of, you know, we spoke about big, big players potentially leaving and then Obviously players coming in to find that balance of keeping enough in that team that maintains the DNA of the team. So it's not a massive overhaul. So you can still compete at the highest level when you are moving into this new rebuild.
- [44:05]
Sam Lee
Yeah, I mean a lot's been written. Samla done pieces on, on this, you know, The Manchester City 2.0, 3.0, the way in which Guardiola kind of reframes them and redraws them and either markedly different or slightly different to what he had previously. And he has gone through big names, big players at City, he's moved on from people like Aguero and David Silva and others and it has to happen. Ideally you want to be able to replace like for like in terms of temperament and experience, but it's not always easy to get timing who's on the market. And title winning experience, whether it's Premier League or major European division or the Champions League is uber expensive. But if you have the money to do Florian Verts for example, then you're bringing in a bit of that because he's coming from a club whose Bundesliga title last season was so impressive and completely nervous, nerveless and, and he was, you know, a massive part of that key, key component in the, in the team. Something like Nick Gonzalez has experience, so does Mahmush, you know, within the limits that they've played up until this point and gives way definitely knows his way around the Premier League. So I guess without being able to spend, you know, premium prices indefinitely, you know, so Guimara Newcastle or Alexander Isaac at Newcastle? I'm not saying they've been looking at Isaac necessarily, but you know, he is become the sort of forward that everybody would take if, if they could. But he is going to cost you an absolute mint. You know, I do kind of feel like they are targeting the right caliber of players and I think some of this does start properly falling into place. And those are the two biggies, probably Gibbs, White and Vers. Although the fact that Edison's going sort of rings a bell in my head about what they're going to do for a goalkeeper because that's got to be a big decision as well. But if those two were to drop, then I think it strengthens. Well, I don't think it does strengthen Guardiola's hand massively, you know, at the flick of a switch.
- [46:10]
Ayo Akimolere
Foreign.
- [46:16]
Unknown
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamalara. Manchester City are three points behind Arsenal, now in third in the Premier League. So potentially carry on this form. It looks like Champions League football is imminent for them next season. How big of an achievement is it to secure this? We'll start with you on this one. I was listening to Guardiola post match after the Everton game, and I think it was Natalie Garda, who we've had had on Gedras, or I should say which, who we've had on the podcast was asking him, how big is the Champions League? And he said, you know what, the night from nine years when I entered this country and getting to the Champions League in this league in this country, it's absolutely massive. So he still feels it. But for a team like Manchester City, considering the season they've had, is Champions League a successful season, Champions League qualification a successful season for them. And let's not forget the FA cup as well. To be fair.
- [47:09]
Ayo Akimolere
It's one of those things where Guardian always said, but City would be trying to win the title or like the Treble or the Champions League as well. He'd go, look, today we qualify for the Champions League and we're just like, not noticed because it'd be the middle of April, they had bigger fish to fry because we just qualify for the Champions League. That's always the main target. And everyone thinks he's taking a piss, but, like, he genuinely always genuinely means it. But the question of, is it an achievement or is it a successful season? It depends. Isn't it? Because you go back to, like, December, January, and you think, I don't know when they're next going to win a match. But I remember we did podcast then and I was. I'm not sure what they're going to do, but I think they'll. They'll get top four, it'll be all right. But again, it took until the very end of March for things to click, for this run of form to come together. But basically, I think if you go back to the start of the season, say, finish second to win the FA cup, you'll be like, oh, what's going on there? Like, that doesn't sound that good. But as long as they're in the title race, maybe. But you look at it in December and go, well, you finish second from this and you'll win the FA cup from this. Because, yeah, the way the season was going, I don't say easily, but it could have. It could have quite possibly carried on being bad. It could have quite possibly gone on being shambolic until the end. So for them to go, no, we're going to stop this, we're going to get back to something like ourselves and maybe get second but even if it's not second, the fact that we're talking about second and third now, whereas 10 days ago we were thinking, oh, they're going to get in the top five, and the FA cup, that's successful because of how it went. But obviously the standards of City, if you'd have said that back in August, no, it wouldn't have been enough.
- [48:42]
Unknown
Could you imagine City playing in the Europa League or Conference League?
- [48:45]
Ayo Akimolere
Phil.
- [48:45]
Unknown
Realistic. I mean, it'd be so strange, wouldn't it?
- [48:48]
Sam Lee
Well, this is the thing. But I mean, to be serious about that, imagine pitching to Verts or Gibbs White. I mean, maybe it wouldn't make a difference to them, but imagine pitching to Verse. If you're saying it's going to be the Europa League for you, it does make it difficult, you know, that does complicate transfer matters. So aside from the basic loss of money that comes with not being in the Champions League, your recruitment becomes more complex because you can't really dangle the carrot that players of that ilk expect to have dangled in front of them. I agree with Sam. I think this is a success from the crisis point of the winter. And there's part of me that thinks Guardiola's attitude must be, you know, deep down, if you're going to lose the title by a point or lose it on goal difference, you might as well lose it by 20, provided that you get into the Champions League. In the grand scheme, what difference does it make? I think the big failing for City this season has been in Europe and in the Champions League. They never, ever looked comfortable in the league stage and they got completely taken to the cleaners by Real Madrid, as I thought they would do. I just didn't think there was enough in that Guardiola team at the time to put up enough opposition to Real and particularly in the. In the Bernabeu. Guardiola did this really funny thing at the press conference after the Forest FA cup tie. Sam and I were both sat in the room.
- [50:01]
Unknown
Hi, Pep.
- [50:02]
Sam Lee
If you can win the FA cup.
- [50:03]
Unknown
And finish in the top five and.
- [50:04]
Sam Lee
Qualify for the Champions League, how would that be A successful season given?
- [50:08]
H
No, I say everything that's happened, no season has not been good. We are thousands of million points behind Liverpool. Come on. So it's not good. Season had not been good. Champions League, look, the Champions League, how many? One game, two games we win. But always we were a machine in that they were not being good. But of course the damage will be meaner. So it's not going to confuse the five qualified champions win the FA cup all respect for Crystal palace in order to confuse it the season have been been good no had to take the decision the club had to take the decision the right ones to next season.
- [50:46]
Sam Lee
Be better and you could tell that he was clearly sick of having that put to him that actually this wouldn't be so bad if he walked away with a trophy and and, and you know, Champions League qualification that would would do with it not from the sort of low, low water mark his pride would never let him accept that publicly but privately he's got to be pretty pleased with the damage limitation because it wasn't looking good.
- [51:08]
Unknown
All right, let's end it there. Sam, Phil, thank you so much for your time. That is it from us. We'll be back tomorrow.
- [51:16]
Ayo Akimolere
The Athletic FC Podcast Network.
- [51:24]
Raj Panjabi
Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.
- [51:27]
Noah Michaelson
And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.
- [51:29]
Raj Panjabi
And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
- [51:36]
Noah Michaelson
Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.
- [51:44]
Raj Panjabi
And we're talking like legit, credible experts.
- [51:47]
Noah Michaelson
Doctors, PhDs all around, superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Wrong wherever you get your podcasts.
- [51:55]
Phil Hay
When the Moore family ditched cable Internet and switched to siddly fiber, they got so much more. Mr. Moore got more upload speed for next level gaming and live streaming to the masses. With reliable service, Mrs. Moore is no longer her family's IT guru, leaving her more time to stream games into overtime.
- [52:10]
Sam Lee
Let's go.
- [52:11]
Phil Hay
And young Mason Moore got more done quickly uploading HD product demos and video conferencing. Without freesight, the numbers look good. Brad, you're on mute. Switch from cable Internet to ziply fiber and get more of what you love for $65 less per month than cable@ziplyfiber.com.