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- [00:01]
Raj Panjabi
When it's the NWSL season, I'm locked in. I'm streaming matches on prime video, breaking down plays in real time and queuing up hype tracks on Amazon Music. Amazon prime helps me stay ready, whether it's fast delivery for last minute watch party snacks or digging into behind the scenes content between games. For me, following the league isn't a hobby, it's a full time passion. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into. Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.
- [00:33]
Noah Michelson
And I'm Noah Michelson, also from HuffPost.
- [00:36]
Raj Panjabi
And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
- [00:42]
Noah Michelson
Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.
- [00:50]
Raj Panjabi
And we're talking like legit, credible experts, doctors, PhDs all around.
- [00:55]
Noah Michelson
Superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Wrong? Wherever you get your podcast with an hour before boarding, there's only one place to go. The Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. There you can recharge before the big adventure or enjoy a locally inspired dish. You could recline in a comfy chair to catch up on your favorite show or order a craft cocktail at the bar. Whatever you're in the mood for, find the detail that moves you with curated touches at the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club Chase. Make more of what's yours. Learn more@chase.com SapphireReserve cards issued by JP.
- [01:29]
Mark Critchley
Morgan, Chase Bank NA Member FDIC subject.
- [01:31]
Laurie Whitwell
To credit approval.
- [01:36]
Mark Critchley
The Athletic FC Podcast.
- [01:38]
Noah Michelson
Network.
- [01:41]
Ayo Akamolere
Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akimwaleere. This week it all eyes on Bilbao as Manchester United and Tottenham Hotspur meet in the Europa League final.
- [01:51]
Laurie Whitwell
Is that the goal to send Manchester.
- [01:53]
Noah Michelson
United to Bilbao for the Europa League final?
- [01:56]
Ayo Akamolere
Today we'll focus on Ruben Amarim's side asking what would success mean for Manchester United? So here with us today we have Mark Critchley and our Manchester United correspondent Laurie Whitwell as well, who is fresh from recording Talk of the Devils. Right, Manchester United fell to their 18th Premier League defeat of the season at Stamford Bridge on Friday night. Laurie, I mean Abrinfield had a full squad, but with a with a final on the horizon, I don't know if this is the best preparation at all is.
- [02:32]
Laurie Whitwell
Well, I mean, he said that he wanted to get that competitiveness in their legs, that kind of feeling of a game, a contest to get them energized, I suppose, for what is going to be a huge occasion in Bilbao. I mean, Jose Mourinho took a totally different approach when they had the final in 2017. He basically rotated his full team. I think Pogba was maybe the one survivor from. From the final Premier League game to then the star in Stockholm. But I mean, he won that game two nil. But it was a, I don't know, workmanlike, kind of quite a difficult game to get through really. And so were they still trying to blow the cobwebs off, you know, get the match sharpness going for the first 20 minutes or so? Maybe this way United can kind of go into it at least with that muscle memory from Stamford Bridge. Okay. They lost the game still, but they played okay, you know, I mean, it's kind of small crumbs of comfort, isn't it, for United at the moment? Clearly Ant Postecoglou took a different approach, totally changed his team for Aston Villa. So, yeah, let's see. I can understand where Amarin's coming from and list. They got out the game, didn't they, without any injuries. So they were even able to give a bit of time to Aidan Heaven, who was coming back from his own injury. And that'd be interesting because, you know, Victor Lindelof has been playing almost by default because of the center back situation. So Heaven played really well when he first came into the side. Does Amarin take a bit of a gamble there and start him? I'd be surprised. You probably are right. I. It's going to be that team that. That started at Chelsea that we see, I think on Wednesday. But yeah, let's hope they can actually then put the ball in the back of the net. They've had no problem with that in the Europa League. Top scorers scored in every game. So maybe it's just that Europa League anthem that gets them focused and sharpshooting.
- [04:15]
Ayo Akamolere
You don't sound optimistic. But I will also say, Lori, though, is it too simplistic just to say that man United really just got all eyes on the Europa League at this moment in time, the league, they're not going to get relegated. Let's just get it done.
- [04:27]
Laurie Whitwell
Yeah, I think certainly that's been the case for quite a lot of people at the club. I think Amarin would bristle at that. I think that was what the attempt at Chelsea was, to even just get a win, you know. To kind of just. I mean, they scored the first goal, it got ruled out for, you know, a very slender offside. Harry Maguire, you know the guy. I think if United can somehow get Harry Maguire into the box in open play, that might be their best chance. But I think Amarin appreciates that this run of form, I mean, it's eight games without a win in the Premier League for the first time in history. Six defeats and two draws in that time. I do think that Amarin has been trying to win these games in the Premier League, or at least I know he's been rotating. And clearly the Europa League final has been on the horizon for. For some time now, and that that competition has been the priority just because it's their obvious route to the Champions League and the finances that brings. But even Amari has said sort of recently, I'm not actually sure whether winning it would be good or not, because, you know, I could do with a few free midweeks and getting my instructions into the players. I think if they end up losing this game, though, I think that would be a horrendous finish for United. Questions will be deep, will be severe, will be prolonged. And so, yeah, they have to give absolutely everything to win this game. Yeah.
- [05:41]
Ayo Akamolere
Critch, I mean, we talk about the form this season and, you know, I know you spoke to Amarim prior to the final, obviously, this Wednesday in a press conference. Now, he keeps talking about standards. Now, Laurie's clearly stated the standard that Manchester United are at, at this moment in time. Where can we see this sort of improvement? Or could you just take, you know, it's good to Europe.
- [06:01]
Mark Critchley
At least in Europe they've been all right, okay, I think let's take that. But it's been. Look, how many games do you think he's actually taken charge of now? I was actually surprised by this. It's 40. 40 games. 40 days, 40 nights. 40 games.
- [06:16]
Laurie Whitwell
And the abstinence of winning matches.
- [06:20]
Mark Critchley
Exactly. Absence of goals, absence of clean sheets. No, look, 40 games, right? And I think if you'd asked Ruben Amarin right at the start of when he was appointed, which really doesn't feel that long ago, but it is 40 games ago now, as I keep. If you'd asked him at the start and you'd asked him, how long is it going to take for us to see an idea, how long is it going to take for this to become your team? I think he would say, well, it'll probably be fewer than 40 games. In fact, I even remember him saying, you'll see an idea from the very start, you'll see what we're trying to work towards, how we're trying to change things. I think we have seen that. In all honesty, I think if you compare United tactically to how they played last season, particularly last season, under 10 HAG, you've seen changes, you've seen a slower, a more deliberate style of play, tempo to the play, more care in possession. If you look at the build up, we've seen very complex structures where center backs are dropping into midfield. We've seen, look, three center backs, right? We've seen that all the way through. He said from the start he would play that system and he stuck to it and he's played it in every single one of those 40 games so far. So we are seeing a Reuben Amarim team here. We are seeing what he's trying to achieve. You could say at the same time, he's not got the squad at the minute, he's not got his players, he's not got the personnel. There's only been two signings, obviously. Patrick Dawgu, first team level, become a regular starter. Aiden Heaven. As Laurie mentioned, he hadn't played a senior game for Arsenal. He's come in, he's shown promise. So there's. So there's a bit more promise there. But it's very difficult to say that it's worked. Right? I don't think we can say that it's worked.
- [07:49]
Ayo Akamolere
Laurie saying food delivered as you're chatting. I mean, this is.
- [07:52]
Mark Critchley
Someone's not abstaining here. Someone's not going. 40 days and 40 nights. Can't even go one podcast. Sorry, let me just finish that train of thought while Laurie gets his breakfast in.
- [08:03]
Laurie Whitwell
I feel like I need to make some defence in my case here, but I'll let you finish first.
- [08:06]
Mark Critchley
All I was saying was that, look, you'll have people who say you can't judge Emery until he gets his players in. I understand that. I think at the same time there is also a case that the art of management is making the most of the resources at your disposable and getting results at the same time. And whether it's because he's been so stubborn on his system, whether it's because he really believes in this style of play and wants to push it forward. He's not done that yet. And that is a problem.
- [08:28]
Ayo Akamolere
Yeah, that is a problem, Chris. I was going to go to Laurie on this question, but I'm sure he's still munching on a piece of toast. So let's move on from Amarim and talk about Hojlund, because, I mean, he yet again cuts a frustrating figure as a center forward against Chelsea. I think it's his 16th time he's not had a shot on goal in the Premier League this season considering there's a European final on the horizon. I mean, he's not looking like the guy full of confidence ready to take the front line in a final in Europe.
- [08:56]
Mark Critchley
No, absolutely not. And to be fair, he's not really looked like that all season. I've always been a bit of a defender of Hojlund. I think at his. I won't say at his best last season he looked like the type of young, raw potential striker that could lead a united front line and had really all the attributes to do it. I think of that one of his first games against Galatasaray where he scored two, he was continually breaking in behind the defence with pace and power and speed. And you looked at him and you thought, there's something to work with here. I don't know whether it's the intense white heat of the crucible that Old Trafford is and playing for United is the scrutiny that falls on a young player's shoulders, but you'd say last season his goal record was okay. It was decent return for a young stride adapting to a new league. This season's been anything but. You point out the stat about the shots right there. I think even if you go back to last season, that's been consistent. He hasn't been getting enough shots away. He hasn't been making enough chances for himself. Sometimes you've been able to level that at his teammates and criticize them for a lack of service. I think that was true then, it's still to an extent true now. But I think the problem has gone beyond that. At the moment, you're looking at a player that often looks like a shell of himself. And I remember I asked Ruben Amram a couple of weeks ago after the game against Wolves in which he really cut quite a full on figure. I said, is there not a case here? Is there not an argument, even though there's not that many options around, that you just take him out and just remove him from the situation and give him that chance to step away and take a breath and just recollect himself. Amarim was reluctant to do that, not only because he doesn't have the options, but because he thinks that the only way he's going to get out of this route is by scoring. After that, he went and scored against Bournemouth. He got the late equalizer There he scored in the game against Athletic Club as well in the second leg. Again, they were the type of scrappy finishes close to the box that you'd want a striker who's low on confidence to be getting on the end of and scoring from. And then you were hoping he'd kick on and he hasn't. And that's really been the story of his United career so far. I think this week you're tempted to say that it's make or break, but it's tough to really see how he. Well, exactly what next season holds for him because I think a lot of minds have been made up among the support. United are obviously looking in the market for a new striker. I think that's absolutely necessary given what we've seen this season. And it's a very uncertain future for Rasmus Hojlund, but he's got one game in which look, if he makes an impact then much like United season as a whole, the whole narrative shifts, doesn't it?
- [11:21]
Laurie Whitwell
Yeah.
- [11:22]
Ayo Akamolere
What do you reckon, Laurie Hojlund? Do you see this young man? And he's still very young. Let's not forget leading the line for Manchester United next season based on current form.
- [11:30]
Laurie Whitwell
Well, no, I would think that would be the unlikelier scenario. Although having said that, you know, did still would, you know, have to sell him in that situation. And that's easier said than done. Will they definitely follow through on that? Will they actually think he is a useful player to have to alternate? As critic said, you know, the. The ability that he does have is there in certain ways. It just feel like he's been consumed by so much change and the pressure of playing up front for Manchester United and yeah, second guessing himself. And at Stamford Bridge it was, you know, again, one of those performances where nothing stuck. He was kind of making the wrong movements. Fernandez was having to go at him at one point for not running in behind. Casimir was having a go at him at another point for not holding up the ball. So yeah, it feels a difficult situation for any player, let alone someone who's sort of 22 to kind of come through. So United are looking in the market, aren't they? Clearly, you know, Liam Delap, high end priorities. Maybe they've got other options as well. You know, Victor Osserman's been mentioned and Victor Jocherez as well. So, you know, these are areas. Matthias Kunu as a number 10, I suppose it's not quite a striker, so it wouldn't necessarily displace Hoyland, but you know, he can play there. So they are clearly focusing their energies up front and so that means that Hojlund's future will obviously come under scrutiny. So. Yeah, but I mean, listen, I've got sympathy for him because, you know, I've tried to do this podcast off the back of Talk, the Devil's podcast, which was an epic, you know, an hour and a half without any breakfast after a personal training session to start the day. I've had one bite of toast, so I understand. I've been feeding on scraps. He's been feeding on scraps.
- [13:11]
Mark Critchley
Very good.
- [13:12]
Laurie Whitwell
Okay, I do have some sympathy now for him. In the current plot that I am.
- [13:15]
Ayo Akamolere
In, he's taking that time whilst you've been trying to come up with all of that. It's not spontaneous.
- [13:21]
Mark Critchley
You needed a minute though.
- [13:23]
Laurie Whitwell
Yeah, he did.
- [13:24]
Mark Critchley
Indeed he did.
- [13:25]
Ayo Akamolere
All right, let's get some positives on because next we'll look at how Manchester United have made it to the final.
- [13:32]
Laurie Whitwell
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamolere.
- [13:39]
Raj Panjabi
When it's the NWSL season, I'm locked in. I'm streaming matches on Prime Video, breaking down plays in real time and queuing up hype tracks on Amazon Music. Amazon prime helps me stay ready, whether it's. Whether it's fast delivery for last minute watch party snacks or digging into behind the scenes content between games. For me, following the league isn't a hobby, it's a full time passion. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into. Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.
- [14:12]
Noah Michelson
And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.
- [14:14]
Raj Panjabi
And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right each week.
- [14:22]
Noah Michelson
On the podcast Raj and pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through how to get it right.
- [14:29]
Raj Panjabi
And we're talking like legit, credible experts, doctors, PhDs all around.
- [14:34]
Noah Michelson
Superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Wrong? Wherever you get your podcasts, purpose doesn't come to you. You have to search for it. Whether it's deep in a forest or high on a mountain. It could be in a conference room or aircraft hangar or in a secure, undisclosed location. It could be just beyond wherever you are right now. With over 500 careers to choose from, find your next level@army civiliancareers.com.
- [15:16]
Raj Panjabi
It Kobby Mayo.
- [15:20]
Noah Michelson
Old trapper produces some of the old magic yet again.
- [15:26]
Laurie Whitwell
Five minutes of stoppages.
- [15:27]
Mark Critchley
Harry Mag.
- [15:31]
Raj Panjabi
Harry Maguire's head.
- [15:35]
Mark Critchley
Hland trying to do something.
- [15:38]
Ayo Akamolere
Bruno Fernandez is in.
- [15:39]
Laurie Whitwell
This is number three, Bruno Fernandez. Lovely turn. It's not the goal to send Manchester.
- [15:53]
Noah Michelson
United to Bilbao for the Europa League final.
- [15:55]
Laurie Whitwell
Support clearance.
- [15:56]
Noah Michelson
Mason Mount will go gowards.
- [15:58]
Laurie Whitwell
Mason Mount. Oh, that's outrageous. That is absolutely outrageous.
- [16:06]
Ayo Akamolere
Can I just applaud whoever put that montage together cuz that has made Manchester United sound like they've had a wonderful season? Look, some memorable moments in Manchester United's road to Bill Bauer, that quarterfinal with Leon in particular, as well as that semi final first leg. Now, Laurie, we've spoken about Manchester United's poor league form yet in Europe they've managed to go unbeaten and they're the only unbeaten side left. And how has this happened? Talk to me.
- [16:33]
Laurie Whitwell
Well, just quickly, I'm grateful for that montage because it allowed me to finish my breakfast, which I know United strikers haven't been able to do so much this season, but to the football. And I do think that this competition has just summoned something within these players and maybe you could criticize them for that actually, because really they should be this amped for each and every Premier League game that comes along. And clearly there's something that happens when you're able to stretch a certain sinew or run that extra 10 yards, make that tackle. I'm sure it's not a deliberate thing, but I think maybe just subconsciously that maybe drops in the Premier League when, when there's not this absolute pressure to perform in this moment, otherwise you're getting knocked out. You know, we saw it in the FA cup last season when they had that mad game against Liverpool. Obviously the FA cup final against Man City, when they really did perform, stuck to a plan and, and followed it through and, and were too good for City on that day. So there's. This team can summon these incredible performances and it's been a wild ride this, this Europa League campaign. It's been fantastic. I was sort of reflecting on the 201617 campaign and, and how it doesn't really resonate in my mind that much because obviously they ended up winning that, right? And they qualify for the Champions League. And Mourinho got criticized for kind of sacking off the Premier League really, and they ended up finishing sixth, I think. So it's quite a come down now to, to this point where, you know, the manager still gets his name sung on loop repeatedly home and away, but that one didn't necessarily conjure the same emotion because it was, you know, teams that you think United should be beaten. I think it was at Anderlecht and San Etienne and Celta Vigo and all the matches were a bit of a grind, only. Only going through by like the odd goal and sort of 1 nil, 2 ones nil. Nils where been undulations, it's been comebacks, it's been wild rides, it's been unexpected successes. You know, going away to Athletic Club and doing that, you know, the team that obviously wanted to play in this final because it was in their home city. So I think you've got these moments and, you know, Harry Maguire on the wing, Harry Maguire scoring, you know, in whatever minute it was 121st. Cobby Mainoo doing a madness and, you know, scoring from an angle that really quality goals. Mason Mount having his sort of moment to shine with that ridiculous strike with his left foot. So, yeah, had amazing moments, but clearly they will probably just turn to dust if they don't end up finishing it off.
- [18:54]
Ayo Akamolere
Yeah, for sure there have been amazing moments, Critch, but also some rather unconvincing moments. You think about Twent, Porto, Fahi, some. Some draws there early on in the tournament, but inevitably Man United find themselves in yet another European final. But for you, through this tournament, is there one point where you thought actually, you know, they look decent here. I can see them going all the way.
- [19:16]
Mark Critchley
No, no, I'm kidding. No, no, no, no, no. Obviously they've been much better in Europe, I think. I think, look, you look at the results, clearly there's a demarcation between Erik ten Hag and then post Erik ten Hag dismissal. You know, as soon as they get those first three games out the way, Rid Van Nisrooy comes in, they have a very dominant win against Pauk, the Greek team. And then Amarin wins all his four games in the league phase as well. So there's that kind of split, if you like. If I was erik10hag, I might argue that those first three games, probably the most difficult ones, certainly Porto away and Fenerbahce away. Very, you know, I think they were the two most testing games that United had in that league phase. I have to say though. And like, I was kind of joking when I said no at the start of the answer. I don't feel like there's really been a moment where it's clicked for United in Europe as such. I think it's not like you've seen a different team in the Europa League. I think you've seen the same team in quite a different environment, in a very different tournament, if you know what I mean. I don't know what you think, Laurie, but I thought, like, for example, the Real Sociedad game, even both those games, they're up against a side who mid table in La Liga, not having a very impressive season, quite technical, like a lot of possession. It felt like the type of game that United really haven't come up against in the Premier League this season. Do you know what I mean? It feels like one where they have a certain physical advantage over their opponents, that they can bully them a little bit. And I thought, you know, especially in that second leg, they dominated them. And that has been the difference, really. You've heard Amarim speak about it quite a lot this season, about how there's a slower tempo in the European games, a slightly less intensity, and he feels as though that actually suits his players a little bit, maybe, because, I don't know, maybe the pressure's off a little bit. Although you wouldn't say that about the knockout phase, because it felt like every single game's been billed as the most important of the season, but it has felt like they're a little bit more suited to this, that maybe they haven't quite met up to the physical level and the physical demands that have been going on every Saturday and every Sunday that they've been playing, but when it comes to Thursday nights, they've looked fine. And I think that's the. That's the best way of explaining it, really. But at the same time, that still opens up huge questions for actually what beyond this final and into next season. Right. Improving the Premier League performances is going to be the key for Amarin going forwards as much and as brilliant as this Europa League run has been, even just this final.
- [21:27]
Laurie Whitwell
Right, because it's against an English team. So is it going to be a Premier League game or is it going to be a Europa League game?
- [21:32]
Ayo Akamolere
And United's record against Anderson hasn't been that great this season, has it? Let's be honest.
- [21:36]
Laurie Whitwell
Oh, the narratives are so incredible, aren't they? With him saying he always wins a trophy in his second season with these three defeats already, what is it going to become, this final? There's just so much riding on it. I just think it's a fascinating contest and I suppose, yeah. What kind of game will it be? I feel like it'll probably have a tinge of it being a showpiece occasion. Right. There's going to be some tension for players that haven't been at this stage before, and I think at least United have got quite a few in their midst that have been in this kind of thing. Obviously, Casemiro stands out. I remember watching their open training before. I think it was the semi final home leg and there was like, you know, rondos going on, obviously, and Casimiro's laughing and smiling and I don't know what provoked him to say this, but he just kept on saying champions League. Champions League. Clearly some kind of game or, you know, in joke.
- [22:22]
Ayo Akamolere
He thought he was still at Real.
- [22:23]
Laurie Whitwell
Madrid there, just default setting, kind of. I needed to do. Woke it up in a cold sweat. Oh, I'm at Man United. Actually, we're not in the Champions League. But I think he was basically saying, listen, calm down, guys, don't worry, I'm here. And, you know, you've also got Mason Mount, who's won a Champions League, you know, with Chelsea, you've got other players that have played in tournaments and been in finals. United have got, you know, quite a few players from the 20, 21 final that obviously didn't go to plan ultimately. But Ahmad Diallo, for example, he, you know, was on the bench that day. He actually was on the bench for Rangers as well the next year, Eintracht Frankfurt. So he's had two losing finals, hasn't played in either of them. So I'm sure he's chomping at the bit. So, yeah, I kind of feel like that'll be an interesting aspect of it all. How do these players cope with the pressure, the scrutiny? Maybe it'll be slightly more alien to Tottenham because United are. Have lived with it the whole season. I know have been a lot of. There's been a lot of pressure on them as well, and scrutiny, but I don't know, I feel like maybe this is my bias, but there's always an amplification when it's United, so this is kind of standard practice for them, the kind of eyes of the world being on them. But, yeah, it's critic's point, I suppose, away in Bill Bow for the semi. But that was, I guess, colored so much by the fact that they were down to 10 men and they. They started that game really badly, actually. And Lindelof was giving the ball away, which is. Which is why I come back to. Does he definitely start this game? Because I think he's looked really shaky since he's come into the side because of the injuries. But when they did take control of that game that they. I think they. They had a good run there. And Athletic Club have been. They've qualified for the Champions League right through La Liga. So they're. They are a good side. So I think that that probably stands out as their best moment of this run. But I totally take critic's point. It's been. It's been wild that they. They could have easily obviously gone out to Leon. They started with three draws and that I think ultimately did for Erik Ten Hag, because I think he had plans on winning that competition. And then for them to be, you know, sort of of mid table of the group stage. Can't remember exactly where they were, but it didn't look like they were going to ever miss out on qualification. But certainly for that top eight position, I think they were in jeopardy. And then since that point, obviously they won five games in a row to get them, I think fourth in the end. And so. Yeah, but I take what Critch is saying. I think you do have to factor in the fact that these opponents are not really at the same level of the Premier League games that they've been facing. In particular, the athleticism, in particular that strength and power that they need throughout a game. Whereas somebody like Casamiro, for example, it can perhaps play at a slightly slower place or a more disciplined pace in the Europa League because it's more continental. Is he going to be able to do that against Tottenham Hotspur?
- [24:57]
Ayo Akamolere
But also Crit in terms of this final. Should we be surprised that a team with the riches of Manchester United, especially with this squad, I mean, it's. It's a richly assembled squad, not necessarily by quality necessarily, but they've paid high wages for a lot of players. Compared to Bilbao, for instance, the wage was so difficult. True.
- [25:16]
Mark Critchley
And it is a maxim that wage spending within football really correlates to success and particularly league position. The one thing I'd say about that in terms of United is that they've been the one counterpoint to that consistently. Right. Never more so than this season.
- [25:31]
Laurie Whitwell
What you think wages correlate to success? We'll show you.
- [25:34]
Mark Critchley
Exactly. It's like actually, this is the rule that governs all football. Though United are so bad, they're still breaking that rule. It's like something. A force of nature, something completely out of nature. So, yeah, you would think that, right? But look, they're 16th in the Premier League, and so I think that says something. What I would say about this team is that they've got a good record in finals, right? And this group of players, particularly, obviously the league cup in Ten Hag's first season. But Then particularly the FA Cup Final at the end of last year, which feels like a real parallel to this game just in terms of how much was riding at the time that it's arrived in the season, how it could perhaps change in colour perceptions of the season. The question about them coming up against Premier League opposition, will it be different? Perhaps, potentially. Obviously they haven't been playing that well. We are talking about a spurs team that's 17th. They're not pretty good themselves.
- [26:22]
Laurie Whitwell
The one team that's worse than United.
- [26:26]
Mark Critchley
That'S in their favour here. The three games against Tottenham this season, look, I think you can look at them. You say the first one is under Erik Ten Hag, different manager, second one, Carabao Cup. I was at that game. It was a pretty chaotic game. It was unlike a lot of games that we've actually seen under Amrim so far. I think in a sense there sort of brought. I don't want to say brought them down to their level, but it was a match play. It was like. I know that's. That's tempted fate slightly, but it was. It was almost like it was a very Tottenham game, if you know what I mean. And it felt like it was played on Tottenham's terms. I think that's a challenge for United in this game and the third one in February. I mean, Laurie, you'll remember that United were absolutely decimated by injuries going into that game and had basically the entire academy on the bench. Couldn't make a change until Chido Obi came on in the 90th minute. And that really limited Amarin's options in that game. It was a pretty poor game. Not much between the two sides. I don't think you can store too much on those past meetings this season. It's really quite a one off. And again, if you can say one thing for this group of players at United, it's that in these one off situations, they've often confounded expectations and actually come out on top.
- [27:27]
Ayo Akamolere
Yeah. Laurie, how important is this for United season? And I know there's still a lot of work to do in the background, but this one game, it all boils down to this league position has been awful. Season's not been that great. But you walk away the European trophy. Surely everything's great at Manchester United, surely.
- [27:45]
Laurie Whitwell
Well, everything's great. Might be a stretch, but on the podcast I was just on, we were discussing United's European finals and there's not. For all the history that United have got, there's not that many. I mean, certainly winning ones actually. So, you know, they've won, I think, five trophies which they raised on the mosaic before the game against Lyon to kind of remind people. But obviously they've lost last few as well, you know, to Barcelona a couple of times and obviously to Villarreal in Gdansk in 2021. So I think whatever happens in the domestic season, if United go and win a European trophy, the fans will absolutely treasure it. This one, I feel like more than I say the 2017 one, just because they'll be able to enjoy it. I think, you know, the fans are there in the stadium mixing in Gdansk, it was Covid as well. So you had that kind of weird atmosphere where it sort of felt a halfway to a real event. So. And people will remember it, you know, will all the kind of journeys that they're going on to get there. It's difficult, right, to get to Bilbao. People are going to be a Ritz and getting a bus, people are getting ferries and that's actually just my two colleagues. Actually. I'm thinking of there. People are going by Marrakech, people are going to Madrid and driving up like all kinds of different routes. So I think that all plays into then your memories of it. And if United are able to win it, then that will. Will be cherished. Clearly, people know there are deep issues at the club and Reuben Amarin is still struggling to get his team to a point that they understand what he wants and that it actually then is successful in Premier League. Clearly the transfer window is going to be very important. Who they bring in is going to be vital. Are they going to get it right? There's still so many questions around the club, but ultimately football, I think, is about emotions and memories and, yeah, winning trophies. And so I think if they're able to win this one, that will stand in people's memories for a long time. You know, you look, look at the FA cup last season. It was a pretty dreadful season. But, you know, United fans treasure it. They. They savor that. They. They do, you know, wind up their city friends about it because it was an occasion that went confounded expectations. And so, yeah, I feel like the same applies here. It won't wipe away everything. Absolutely not. You know, United to finish 16th or 17th, wherever they're going to finish is abysmal, atrocious. And everybody should be looking deep within themselves as to why that's happened and trying to amend that. But. But if they're able to lift a trophy, there will be smiles from people. People will cherish it and hug their mates that they're with they'll, you know, families will talk about it and so then, yeah, it colors a little bit. What happens in the summer I think as well.
- [30:16]
Ayo Akamolere
Yeah, football's such a bizarre sport. Well, next let's look at Amarim's position ahead of this first final in charge of Manchester United.
- [30:25]
Laurie Whitwell
You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akamole. Right.
- [30:31]
Raj Panjabi
When it's the NWSL season, I'm locked in. I'm streaming matches on prime video, breaking down plays in real time and queuing up hype tracks on Amazon Music. Amazon prime helps me stay ready, whether it's fast delivery for last minute watch party stacks or digging into behind the scenes content between games. For me, following the league isn't a hobby, it's a full time passion. Whatever you're into to it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into. Hi, I'm Raj Panjabi from HuffPost.
- [31:04]
Noah Michelson
And I'm Noah Michaelson, also from HuffPost.
- [31:06]
Raj Panjabi
And we're the hosts of Am I Doing It Wrong? A new podcast that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
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Noah Michelson
Each week on the podcast, Raj and I pick a new topic that we want to understand better and bring a guest expert on to talk us through through how to get it right.
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Raj Panjabi
And we're talking like legit credible experts.
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Noah Michelson
Doctors, PhDs all around superheroes from HuffPost and Acast Studios. Check out Am I Doing It Wrong? Wherever you get your podcasts, you might find purpose in a forest or on a mountain, in an aircraft hangar or in a secure undisclosed location or just beyond where you are right now. With over 500 careers to choose from, find your next level at army civiliancareers.com.
- [31:53]
Laurie Whitwell
This is the Athletic FC podcast with IO Akmoleo. We need more time with the team.
- [32:01]
Ayo Akamolere
We need to arrange a lot of.
- [32:03]
Laurie Whitwell
Things in Carrington that we need more time to not thinking game by game.
- [32:07]
Ayo Akamolere
By game by game.
- [32:08]
Laurie Whitwell
And then you have the squad. We proved this year that we need to be a better squad if we want to win Europa European Games and.
- [32:17]
Ayo Akamolere
Then to be really competitive during the Premier League. Yeah, crit. You know, I wonder what impact this game's going to have on on what Amarim can do with Manchester United going forward because obviously this isn't his team yet. There's still a lot of work to do in the summer, but to start your tenure with a trophy, I mean, come on, it's not bad, is it?
- [32:38]
Mark Critchley
It's not Bad. It's not bad at all. The league position is pretty bad. The trophy wouldn't be bad.
- [32:43]
Ayo Akamolere
The weird thing is you just have to CA it with the league position because it was so awful.
- [32:47]
Mark Critchley
You do. Look, I think this season, I remember was doing the pod immediately, like an hour after 10 Hag was sacked, right? And I think I might have even said on that that the rest of the season is a write off. Now look, whether that was right or wrong, if you're going to end a write off season with a European trophy, then that's pretty good, right? So I think take that into account. Obviously this is huge for everything Laurie said. And I totally agree about the memories that it'll bring, fans, etc. I think you only need to look at not last year's FA cup final, look at the FA cup final this weekend and palace and how much it meant to those supporters. It'll be the same for United supporters if they can have similar memories like that from this. It guarantees money as well though, right? Forget about the memories for a second. The ones and zeros. You're talking 80 to 100 million pounds next season guaranteed from the Champions League, even if you crash out at the earliest possible opportunity. Now we're talking about a club here that has really been through the financial wringer over the last year, that has had to make a lot of difficult decisions, a lot of painful decisions about people's jobs that's had to go restructuring. You've got Sir Jim Ratcliffe talking about, never mind the rebuild that you're talking about here. We've got to write a check for £89 million this summer. If we sign nobody for players who are already through the door, if that's covered somewhat by qualifying for the Champions League, then that gives you more leeway and more room to actually do the building work that needs to be done. So I think it's hugely important from that perspective. But just as I started this answer by caveating it with league position, you know, you've got Amarim himself talking at the moment like, well, yeah, it'd be great if we win it, but also I don't know if we can handle Premier League and Champions League football at the same time. He's talking about how he needs midweeks in the middle of next season time on the training pitch in order to get his methods across. So it really is a weirdly double edged sort of thing this. It's quite, actually quite difficult to articulate and I've been trying to write about this this week. There's a pathway here where everything goes right for United on Wednesday night and everything goes wrong for them next season and people will look back and in hindsight say, well, you, it would have been better if they hadn't. Whatever. That's the difficulty here. And it's a real narrow path that Amorin has to try and navigate to bring United back to where they want to be. Because ultimately, I think, with all due respect, we all know that winning the Europa League is great and these memories are great, but the club will be judged on Premier League titles and competing within the Champions League and it's still a long way away from doing that.
- [35:09]
Ayo Akamolere
Yeah, there's so many permutations here in terms of Manchester United's progress. Laurie and Critch makes a really valid point because, you know, you're looking at a team that's still trying to find its feet under a new system and a manager that hasn't quite got his feet under the carpet properly. And then you've got Champions League football, which would be great financially for Manchester United because let's not forget, this is a business, this is a financial game. But being knocked out of the Champions League potentially with a half par performance and then still not trying to maintain some sort of Premier League push, I mean, that this fan base is already bubbling. This could be a really fascinating.
- [35:45]
Laurie Whitwell
Yeah, and it could be a case of, you know, the sticking plaster over the, the gaping wound and, and ultimately it snaps and then, you know, you're kind of in a worse position than before. I mean, I suppose it'd be hard to get into a worse position than they're currently in, in the Premier League, but I mean, maybe, you know, it happened in the 70s. So yeah, if anyone, if anyone can. And there's a certain irony, right, about United actually reaching the Champions League if, if they are able to do so, because the wages, as we were discussing earlier, they'll go up for 25%. So I mean, obviously that is, they will make more money from the Champions League than the wages go up. So it is definitely worth them financially to do it still. And also just for the appeal, the targets that you might want, you know, to be able to say, we're in Champions League, that that's going to give you a better chance, isn't it? But it's not, you know, just an absolute home run. And I do, you know, find it that there's a certain irony, isn't there, in terms of, you know, Jadon Sancho or Marcus Rashford or Anthony, I mean, he's gone and done a really good job over in Real Betis. But these players will have their wages increased if United win this game. And then is that harder to then sell them because they're on higher wages? So that the kind of exit terms will have to be negotiated in a certain way that they're happy with. So, yeah, there's a few moving parts of this, but obviously Reuben Amorin is central to it all. And to your first point, Ayo, about his future and status, you know, he, he kind of, he's flirted at times, hasn't he, with sort of talking about the, the, the, the, him not being here at some point in the future. And okay, he's, he kind of came out, he had to kind of address it, I think, quite strongly in the media day that, that press conference for. I was, I was waiting downstairs in the bowels of Old Trafford for Ahmad to do a little interview with him, but he, he kind of said, I am very far from quitting. Right. So that was kind of one question that was being asked sort of that had never really been maybe asked directly. I remember being in San Sebastian and that was the, the kind of theme of that period where Amren was talking about it mentioned the sack being liberating potentially for a coach at times and sort of, well, if I'm, if I'm not performing, they'll get rid of me. You know, how long we have here, I don't know that, that kind of stuff. And so people were sort of thinking, is he, does he, is he totally in here? But he addressed that absolutely in his pre Europa League final press conference. So. Yeah, let's see. But it's a fascinating one. As far as we are aware, you know, the people that appointed Amorin are absolutely behind him. They understand the situation they inherited is a very difficult one and they do not want to, you know, end this at all. But clearly the results are so bad that if it continues into next season, then they will have real pressure on them.
- [38:15]
Ayo Akamolere
But that's the other thing as well, Chris. I just realized that if United don't win the Europa League, what does that also say about, about what Amaram is trying to achieve in this team moving into next season? Because then you definitely do end the season on a real low.
- [38:28]
Mark Critchley
Yeah, precisely. I think again, we've gone through all the financial stuff and what a difference it could make in the transfer market and from the fan perspective, the memories, I think, broader narrative wise, which is what we deal in a lot in journalism off when we're discussing this stuff, you Want an idea. You want a sense of progress, you want a sense of forward momentum that is absolutely critical. Go like rewind 12 months right to the end of that FA cup final with Eric ten Haag. It was a trophy, it was a great day out. I don't think there was the same sense that the club was moving forward and in a, in a united direction that you might, you, I would like to think you would have if they win on Wednesday. Right. I, I think Reuben Amingham still has enough grace. The fact that he's coming mid season, that he's been given a very difficult, you know, I was describing it as a write off before to turn that into a trophy, to turn it into Champions League qualification, even if it is through the back door of a different back door. Having got through into the Europa League through the back door, then that, that, that, you know, that is a sense of, well, there's progress here and we can build on this, but that is absolutely crucial. And I think for, for Ameren himself that would be the biggest benefit from, from winning on Sunday. More than anything else on Wednesday. Sorry. More than anything else would be that, okay, things are moving in the right direction and I think a lot of fans were giving me the benefit of doubt for that case. There's a million different reasons why you could say that. Still not right, 39 points in the league, et cetera, et cetera. But a trophy gives you that legitimacy to move forward in a way that I don't think it really did for erik10hag last season because we were already two years in at that point. We'd already seen, we already knew this team. There's still a slight unknown about Amaru and whether he can actually instill his methods and his way of play and whether that's going to be successful. There's still that question mark, but it's a question mark in a positive sense as well because there's potential for it to still work.
- [40:18]
Ayo Akamolere
Yeah, I guess one other positive potentially of getting Champions League football, Laurie, is that the kind of players Manchester United might be able to attract in the transfer market. And I don't know necessarily how much they've got to spend but you know, an injection of cash there also an injection of cash for winning the Europa League. I know it's not a lot, but it's still cash, you know, at the end of the season when you've gone all season on this form. So, you know, potentially over the summer those deals become a lot more easier to have. If you say, yeah, we've got Champions League next year, season.
- [40:47]
Laurie Whitwell
Well, I mean, Victor Yokerez is the player that comes to mind instantly on that score because there was this sense, certainly from a few months ago when I was told it was unlikely that he would join United. And that was kind of a combination maybe of his exact profile and how much he might cost, but mainly his desires, I think, to kind of test himself in the top competition. Obviously he's played there for Sporting, but to go further in it. And Reuben Amaran was asked about that over in Bilbao where he basically said, I only want players. I haven't spoken to Yokerez. Obviously he had brilliant success with him at Sporting, but I only want players that want to play for United and not just the competition. But obviously, if that is a major point and then United are in the competition, then it's easy to say, well, he wanted to come to United anyway, if they ultimately do sort of turn that one round. Because obviously Arsenal sniffing and it seems like he is going to leave Sporting this summer. But that's an interesting one just because he had so, so much success with Amoryn. And you can kind of. I could see United not wanting to go down that route because it's. They've been there with Eritsen Haag and getting former players, but may maybe, you know, Amarin is at a point where he needs to. That kind of clear idea about what a player would bring and understanding that and, and, you know, confidence that it would work. Obviously hasn't played in the Premier League, though. He played for Coventry in the Championship and, and did well. But, yeah, so, I mean, that, that was. I've kind of gone on longer than I'd intended on that particular point. But, but yeah, totally. Ayo. I think the, the, the, the caliber of player that you can attract, it. It does change. Right. It's just a. And I know that you're not. United might always have that kind of inherent ability to appeal to certain players and maybe other players would still look at the Premier League form and think, well, come on, that's a disaster. I'm not going to go into that one, but I think if you've got that little cherry to offer as well about playing against, you know, Real Madrid, Barcelona, whoever else they might end up drawing then I think that is a compelling point.
- [42:37]
Ayo Akamolere
Yeah, it's a very long answer. I think it's still hungry, Critch, but, you know, you, you can go and have some lunch.
- [42:43]
Mark Critchley
I'm hungry. After that it's lunchtime. Come on all.
- [42:48]
Ayo Akamolere
Appreciate you both, man. At Laurie Critch, thanks so much for your insight and also thank you guys for listening. We'll be back tomorrow focusing on Spurs's need for success in Bilbao.
- [42:58]
Laurie Whitwell
You've been listening to the Athletic FC Podcast.
- [43:00]
Mark Critchley
The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavroot and Jay Beal.
- [43:03]
Laurie Whitwell
The executive producer was Ailey Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for the Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast isn't a athletic media company production.
- [43:17]
Mark Critchley
The Athletic FC Podcast.
- [43:19]
Laurie Whitwell
Network.
- [43:26]
Raj Panjabi
When it's the NWSL season, I'm locked in. I'm streaming matches on Prime Video, breaking down plays in real time and queuing up hype tracks on Amazon Music. Amazon prime helps me stay ready, whether it's fast delivery for last minute watch, party stacks or dinner. Digging into behind the scenes content between games. For me, following the league isn't a hobby, it's a full time passion. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into.
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Mark Critchley
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